Jumping in FFXI would not have worked at all due to the battle system; can you image, FFXI players, having a tank, healer, or DPS try to navigate their quarry jumping like a mad man? If XIV is to have a somewhat similar battle and movement system or, indeed, perhaps even be a online successor to XI then jumping would hinder such a goal. Having no jumping in a game does not make one feel like they're constrained as it's a commonly abused mechanic where games that have it you see people frequently using it out of addiction or boredom. In fact, it simply wouldn't feel like a Final Fantasy game if it did have such -- FFXI was a game of mainly mature people with serious gameplay and not something that those who had attention problems typically lasted very long in. It's really just the feel of the game that makes no jumping work in terms of XI, and I'd assume the same of XIV. It is built around on such and focuses on keeping you entertained and focused on one objective after the next, with no end in sight of what you, in the back of your mind, are planning to do next. I know I had a daily list of 10+ things I wanted to accomplish on XI, with such being planned weeks ahead. Jumping is just, as far as I can tell from playing other games, something to help with boredom and shouldn't be a mechanic that one relies on for entertainment -- at least that was what I gathered from FFXI and it's near limitless things to strive for. There was no "end game" in today's terms as there was always content that you hadn't see or something that you wanted to obtain once you got used to the system, made friends and leveled a few jobs up. The best items could be crafted or you could go on adventures for 20+ different classes that relayed story and teamwork in which to unlock your artifact armor and the like -- not raiding for months just to get an item that will be used for raiding months later again. Those who catch themselves jumping too much in a game typically find that they do it from boredom resulting in the above. The game has it's own unique controls and, luckily it doesn't copy other games that rely on subtle "knick-knak" moves to reassert attention.
Edit: Typos
Some people just dont understand this, nor will they ever understand this until a game draws them in. I never once had a thought in ffxi "man I wish this game had a jump" there was just so much other stuff to worry about.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Jumping leads to exploitation. I remember in DAOC you could just stand on top of a rock and bug out mobs and ranged kill them while they were unable to attack you. This trend has been in many online games. If you are faced with a Fence why should you be able to simply jump over it? Perhaps they intend for that fence to be a barrier for a reason?
This man speaks the truth, jump leads to exploitation and alot more code to be written and alot more situations to be taken care of, not having jump in a game of 2010 just comes down to developers would rather "quick fix" it than to implement a complex system to handle it.
Jumping adds to player freedom and that is a fact no matter what people say I have played alot of games without jump and there is a difference, a good example comes to mind to compare to this situation is a talk by a game designer a few years ago where he talked about ways to give more freedom to the player.
I cant remember his exact words but what he said was basically in an mmo you can implement removing actions from the players in 2 ways, one way you can stop the player in place from moving completely where the player will feel "trapped" the other way is to add a 90% speed debuff, the player can still move his character around, but in any game situation the effect is the same you are trapped you cannot reach your opponent any more as if you were 100% debuffed but one takes away the freedom of the player completely the other gives the illusion of freedom.
The same thing can be said about jumping, when players jump and walk around it gives an illusion of higher freedom from the world than if you cant jump but in fact its exactly the same, but leads to a more enjoyable experience.
For the people saying that all FF games never had jump and its the same then you could also say that they never had cutting edge graphics then they should use the same engine they have used 5 or 6 years ago, having more bloom effects and other full screen effects wont add more to the experience than when you didnt have it.
Not having jump its simply a bad design decision to solve problems quickly and effortlessly, this is not to say it wont work, it probably will but it will not be as enjoyable as if they had jump.
Hehe, why is this whole discussion reminding me of the player housing arguments? It always has exactly the same points made; 'it adds to immersion' or 'it does nothing'.
It's a matter of taste people. To some, being able to jump whenever they want is an immersive feature, and to others seeing an idiot jump all over the place like a clown is equally immersion breaking. This argument will never be resolved since it's all just a matter of personal preference...
If the only subscribers FFXIV gets are from people who played and enjoyed FFXI at some given time in history, then XIV will be successful. As has been said numerous times by many FFXI players, jump never felt like something you were missing. Have faith that SE will once again create an atmosphere that draws you in more than seeing bouncing tarutarus everywhere would.
If they do add jump, I can only hope it's a reasonable jump (N64 Zelda games). But also as other people have mentioned, I would rather they spend their time on other areas of the game, if it came down to a choice of having jumping vs. some cool player housing/party system.
I realize there's kind of a ridiculous amount of noise in this thread about such a small issue in an otherwise awesome-looking game. Just adding my voice to the crowd.
I see MANY still don't get it,so i will use an example that should make it REAL simple,again has to do with bot pathing and exploiting.
If you allow players to jump,then you would also have to make and allow a jump animation for every single mob in the game and add in appropriate bot pathing ,so the mob could figure out when to use his jump instead of running all the way around a wall..If you do not allow the mobs to jump then you could literally keep hopping over fences or walls and the mob could never defeat you.So then what?remove everything in the game that would allow you to use that exploit?If you did that ,then i guess you wouldn't need jump anymore would you?
What Square did was allow mobs to crawl up some cliffs/banks to keep players from exploiting combat,but they still kept some realism in the game by allowing players to utilize walls/objects,this way you could confuse a mob's bot pathing or just use that wall/object for some initial protection.The difference being of course ,you still had to run around the wall the same as the mob does,but you can't jump over it for easy exploiting.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I see MANY still don't get it,so i will use an example that should make it REAL simple,again has to do with bot pathing and exploiting. If you allow players to jump,then you would also have to make and allow a jump animation for every single mob in the game and add in appropriate bot pathing ,so the mob could figure out when to use his jump instead of running all the way around a wall..If you do not allow the mobs to jump then you could literally keep hopping over fences or walls and the mob could never defeat you.So then what?remove everything in the game that would allow you to use that exploit?if you did that ,then i guess you wouldn't need jump anymore would you?
That is so wrong I dunno where to start, MMOs have been using jump on players for years now and the mobs still dont jump, furthermore you wouldnt need any special pathing or bot pathing, mobs in 99% of the MMOs out there that allow for player jump or any other movement have special rules that allow them to bypass obstacles and even run up slopes that players cannot.
Your example is so ridiculous as well because even without jumping in your situation if a mob has to go around a small rock then you could just keep running around the rock and the mob would never get to you, this doesnt happen mobs go over obstacles that players may not have the ability to do so, with or without jumping and you bet its going to be the same in FF.
Your argument is weak and has no backing whatsoever, even mediocre MMOs out there have jumping and no mobs have or had to be tweaked in any special way, because they use the same way to get to you weather your on the other side of the fence already or if you jump there after you aggro.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you NEED jump in all the games you play, no matter how the game is design to be played, you definetely suffer from ADD or OCD & it might be a good idea to seek medication... just trying to help you guys here.
Pretty sure very few people will agreee, but really, idc & its my opinion.
- Jumping makes map design much more complicated. Imagine, in a grass field, without jump they can just add a fence to prevent players treepassing the area. However, with jump, they have to add something much higher like brick wall or funny high fence, which would completely destroy the scenery.
- Jump has already been used as a Dragoon's trademark skill.
-Most MMO makes jump unrealistically high because they aren't based from real-world physic. Physical ability of characters in FFxiv is based on normal real-world human which normal people cannot easily jump over a meter-high fence (normal people can jump around 30cm meter high without their knees bended). It would be funny to see Lalafell jump as high as Elezen and Mi'quote, wouldn't it?
And I find it very annoying and childish seeing people keep jumping around in the town.
*I like jumping in some MMOs, but please, don't put it in FFxiv. it destroys serious mood.
I think there should be jumping. Being able to jump over small objects like fences and logs adds immersion to the world. Having to jump a small ledge to the other side in a mountainous area and stuff like that instead of being stuck and forced to walk around. They could add some kind of fatigue to it so if you jump a couple times you get tired and can't jump until you have rested. That way people won't be bunny hopping around. I don't see why this is even a problem.
There is no jumping because there is no need for it.
Smart companies worry about things the game needs, and not what is going to hinder them in the process of making the game right.
Usually this theory applies to graphics as well, but I'm sure just because FFXIV has great graphics it doesn't mean it's definitely going to be a bad game.
I sure hope FFXIV doesn't have any trees, because it seems like there are an awful lot of people here who spontaneously combust if they encounter an obstacle that takes 0.5 seconds to run around.
These type of ADD people are the type of people who even if the do get jumping added will be gone soon as the next big mmo releases anyways. If you dont like not having jumping just go to tera/SW forums, because those are following up closely behind ffxiv release date wise.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
omg cant believe a littel feature like this have made a 17 pages argument.
find it incredible someone will even defend "no jumping" its a relative simple mechanic.
for just about everyone "defending" jumping its been ok its not a game breaker - like me own think its annoying to be restricted in movement of my char, especially in a new game.
omg cant believe a littel feature like this have made a 17 pages argument.
find it incredible someone will even defend "no jumping" its a relative simple mechanic. for just about everyone "defending" jumping its been ok its not a game breaker - like me own think its annoying to be restricted in movement of my char, especially in a new game.
c´mon ppl.... :P
Yes it is a simple mechanic to just add jumping, But when you add jumping, if you dont fix other things like mob pathing, mapping issues, your game is riddled with serious problems and exploits, So in reality adding jumping is a complicated issue. Which imo I would rather have those resources spent elsewhere.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
omg cant believe a littel feature like this have made a 17 pages argument.
find it incredible someone will even defend "no jumping" its a relative simple mechanic. for just about everyone "defending" jumping its been ok its not a game breaker - like me own think its annoying to be restricted in movement of my char, especially in a new game.
c´mon ppl.... :P
Yes it is a simple mechanic to just add jumping, But when you add jumping, if you dont fix other things like mob pathing, mapping issues, your game is riddled with serious problems and exploits, So in reality adding jumping is a complicated issue. Which imo I would rather have those resources spent elsewhere.
yes cause sure you can make deep deep meaning full content but omg cant possible handle the fact that there is up ward movement into the game design....its like immortal to encounter oO
Why would someone want to jump? what good does it do? I'm perfectly fine with square's decision on no jumping.
Because, for some, having the ability to jump is right up there with, you know....walking and running. Seriously, ALL MMOs today should give the player the ability to walk, jog, run, jump and swim underwater. If they don't, then the developers are just being lazy.
I don't care if I can't jump for no real reason, but I should be able to hop over a rock or a small fence for crying out loud.
FFXIV -1
OR
They don't want people jumping around ridiculously, looking like rabbits on crack. What advantage does jumping give in combat based on dice rolls anyway? Most MMO's have auto target and auto facing, jumping serves no purpose in a system like that. It just looks ridiculous, good riddance.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They might not have jumping since it is designed to work with consoles. If you had a jumping mechanic in the game players would want it to be tied to a main button on the controller which would just make another constantly used function be buried in sub menus.
If I played the game on a console I would rather have more of my fighting and interact actions tied to the main buttons instead of having one buried because it is being used for jump. I am not sure if this is the real reason or not but it is the first thing that I thought of when I saw that there would be no jump function.
They might not have jumping since it is designed to work with consoles. If you had a jumping mechanic in the game players would want it to be tied to a main button on the controller which would just make another constantly used function be buried in sub menus.
If I played the game on a console I would rather have more of my fighting and interact actions tied to the main buttons instead of having one buried because it is being used for jump. I am not sure if this is the real reason or not but it is the first thing that I thought of when I saw that there would be no jump function.
finally a non crying person giving some proper feedback.....instead of mindless bashing.
Instead of having a jump button I think a solution would be to have a kind of "soft jump" like you'd find in in Zelda Occarina of Time and such where if you approached the edge of a drop you would automatically jump, or jump from platform to platform if it was needed. This would solve all the problems in my eyes as you'd only ever jump where it was needed and prevent people spamming space bar and bunny hopping all over the place
Comments
Some people just dont understand this, nor will they ever understand this until a game draws them in. I never once had a thought in ffxi "man I wish this game had a jump" there was just so much other stuff to worry about.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
This man speaks the truth, jump leads to exploitation and alot more code to be written and alot more situations to be taken care of, not having jump in a game of 2010 just comes down to developers would rather "quick fix" it than to implement a complex system to handle it.
Jumping adds to player freedom and that is a fact no matter what people say I have played alot of games without jump and there is a difference, a good example comes to mind to compare to this situation is a talk by a game designer a few years ago where he talked about ways to give more freedom to the player.
I cant remember his exact words but what he said was basically in an mmo you can implement removing actions from the players in 2 ways, one way you can stop the player in place from moving completely where the player will feel "trapped" the other way is to add a 90% speed debuff, the player can still move his character around, but in any game situation the effect is the same you are trapped you cannot reach your opponent any more as if you were 100% debuffed but one takes away the freedom of the player completely the other gives the illusion of freedom.
The same thing can be said about jumping, when players jump and walk around it gives an illusion of higher freedom from the world than if you cant jump but in fact its exactly the same, but leads to a more enjoyable experience.
For the people saying that all FF games never had jump and its the same then you could also say that they never had cutting edge graphics then they should use the same engine they have used 5 or 6 years ago, having more bloom effects and other full screen effects wont add more to the experience than when you didnt have it.
Not having jump its simply a bad design decision to solve problems quickly and effortlessly, this is not to say it wont work, it probably will but it will not be as enjoyable as if they had jump.
Jumping does nothing. What a good way to spend resources.
Not adding jump is just the DEVs being lazy.
Hehe, why is this whole discussion reminding me of the player housing arguments? It always has exactly the same points made; 'it adds to immersion' or 'it does nothing'.
It's a matter of taste people. To some, being able to jump whenever they want is an immersive feature, and to others seeing an idiot jump all over the place like a clown is equally immersion breaking. This argument will never be resolved since it's all just a matter of personal preference...
Posting in an epic thread.
If the only subscribers FFXIV gets are from people who played and enjoyed FFXI at some given time in history, then XIV will be successful. As has been said numerous times by many FFXI players, jump never felt like something you were missing. Have faith that SE will once again create an atmosphere that draws you in more than seeing bouncing tarutarus everywhere would.
If they do add jump, I can only hope it's a reasonable jump (N64 Zelda games). But also as other people have mentioned, I would rather they spend their time on other areas of the game, if it came down to a choice of having jumping vs. some cool player housing/party system.
I realize there's kind of a ridiculous amount of noise in this thread about such a small issue in an otherwise awesome-looking game. Just adding my voice to the crowd.
I see MANY still don't get it,so i will use an example that should make it REAL simple,again has to do with bot pathing and exploiting.
If you allow players to jump,then you would also have to make and allow a jump animation for every single mob in the game and add in appropriate bot pathing ,so the mob could figure out when to use his jump instead of running all the way around a wall..If you do not allow the mobs to jump then you could literally keep hopping over fences or walls and the mob could never defeat you.So then what?remove everything in the game that would allow you to use that exploit?If you did that ,then i guess you wouldn't need jump anymore would you?
What Square did was allow mobs to crawl up some cliffs/banks to keep players from exploiting combat,but they still kept some realism in the game by allowing players to utilize walls/objects,this way you could confuse a mob's bot pathing or just use that wall/object for some initial protection.The difference being of course ,you still had to run around the wall the same as the mob does,but you can't jump over it for easy exploiting.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
That is so wrong I dunno where to start, MMOs have been using jump on players for years now and the mobs still dont jump, furthermore you wouldnt need any special pathing or bot pathing, mobs in 99% of the MMOs out there that allow for player jump or any other movement have special rules that allow them to bypass obstacles and even run up slopes that players cannot.
Your example is so ridiculous as well because even without jumping in your situation if a mob has to go around a small rock then you could just keep running around the rock and the mob would never get to you, this doesnt happen mobs go over obstacles that players may not have the ability to do so, with or without jumping and you bet its going to be the same in FF.
Your argument is weak and has no backing whatsoever, even mediocre MMOs out there have jumping and no mobs have or had to be tweaked in any special way, because they use the same way to get to you weather your on the other side of the fence already or if you jump there after you aggro.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you NEED jump in all the games you play, no matter how the game is design to be played, you definetely suffer from ADD or OCD & it might be a good idea to seek medication... just trying to help you guys here.
Pretty sure very few people will agreee, but really, idc & its my opinion.
- Jumping makes map design much more complicated. Imagine, in a grass field, without jump they can just add a fence to prevent players treepassing the area. However, with jump, they have to add something much higher like brick wall or funny high fence, which would completely destroy the scenery.
- Jump has already been used as a Dragoon's trademark skill.
-Most MMO makes jump unrealistically high because they aren't based from real-world physic. Physical ability of characters in FFxiv is based on normal real-world human which normal people cannot easily jump over a meter-high fence (normal people can jump around 30cm meter high without their knees bended). It would be funny to see Lalafell jump as high as Elezen and Mi'quote, wouldn't it?
And I find it very annoying and childish seeing people keep jumping around in the town.
*I like jumping in some MMOs, but please, don't put it in FFxiv. it destroys serious mood.
I think there should be jumping. Being able to jump over small objects like fences and logs adds immersion to the world. Having to jump a small ledge to the other side in a mountainous area and stuff like that instead of being stuck and forced to walk around. They could add some kind of fatigue to it so if you jump a couple times you get tired and can't jump until you have rested. That way people won't be bunny hopping around. I don't see why this is even a problem.
There is no jumping because there is no need for it.
Smart companies worry about things the game needs, and not what is going to hinder them in the process of making the game right.
Usually this theory applies to graphics as well, but I'm sure just because FFXIV has great graphics it doesn't mean it's definitely going to be a bad game.
I sure hope FFXIV doesn't have any trees, because it seems like there are an awful lot of people here who spontaneously combust if they encounter an obstacle that takes 0.5 seconds to run around.
These type of ADD people are the type of people who even if the do get jumping added will be gone soon as the next big mmo releases anyways. If you dont like not having jumping just go to tera/SW forums, because those are following up closely behind ffxiv release date wise.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
omg cant believe a littel feature like this have made a 17 pages argument.
find it incredible someone will even defend "no jumping" its a relative simple mechanic.
for just about everyone "defending" jumping its been ok its not a game breaker - like me own think its annoying to be restricted in movement of my char, especially in a new game.
c´mon ppl.... :P
Yes it is a simple mechanic to just add jumping, But when you add jumping, if you dont fix other things like mob pathing, mapping issues, your game is riddled with serious problems and exploits, So in reality adding jumping is a complicated issue. Which imo I would rather have those resources spent elsewhere.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Running isn't needed when you can just walk everywhere, but I'm sure that's included in the game.
Yes it is a simple mechanic to just add jumping, But when you add jumping, if you dont fix other things like mob pathing, mapping issues, your game is riddled with serious problems and exploits, So in reality adding jumping is a complicated issue. Which imo I would rather have those resources spent elsewhere.
yes cause sure you can make deep deep meaning full content but omg cant possible handle the fact that there is up ward movement into the game design....its like immortal to encounter oO
gimme a break! you are calling SE amateurs
Because, for some, having the ability to jump is right up there with, you know....walking and running. Seriously, ALL MMOs today should give the player the ability to walk, jog, run, jump and swim underwater. If they don't, then the developers are just being lazy.
I don't care if I can't jump for no real reason, but I should be able to hop over a rock or a small fence for crying out loud.
FFXIV -1
OR
They don't want people jumping around ridiculously, looking like rabbits on crack. What advantage does jumping give in combat based on dice rolls anyway? Most MMO's have auto target and auto facing, jumping serves no purpose in a system like that. It just looks ridiculous, good riddance.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They might not have jumping since it is designed to work with consoles. If you had a jumping mechanic in the game players would want it to be tied to a main button on the controller which would just make another constantly used function be buried in sub menus.
If I played the game on a console I would rather have more of my fighting and interact actions tied to the main buttons instead of having one buried because it is being used for jump. I am not sure if this is the real reason or not but it is the first thing that I thought of when I saw that there would be no jump function.
The lack of jump isn't really a huge issue but it's kind of a nuisance in games like Guild Wars. It really limits your freedom to explore.
finally a non crying person giving some proper feedback.....instead of mindless bashing.
*thumbsup* to you mr.
what other screen shot creator is there besides mash-on?and how do i get them to comic book creator plzz help me
trevonte d. reynolds
Instead of having a jump button I think a solution would be to have a kind of "soft jump" like you'd find in in Zelda Occarina of Time and such where if you approached the edge of a drop you would automatically jump, or jump from platform to platform if it was needed. This would solve all the problems in my eyes as you'd only ever jump where it was needed and prevent people spamming space bar and bunny hopping all over the place