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Great immersive world, poor pvp design
i figured i would try out darkfall to see how the pvp is. Problem is, you cannot level from pvp alone. That is fail. Why market a game as a pvp game, when you have to pve just to get into pvp??? that is not logical. Word to future developers trying to make pvp games.. if you dont plan on sucking, allow pvp only as a form of experience gain. Unfortunately, there are too few players to pvp for xp and you have to run hours to get a few kills.
As bad as warhammer was in general, it got the pvp part right in allowing players to never touch pve to level up. Wish devs would buy a clue.
Otherwise, i really really like Darkfall, but i want pvp, not pve. I look forward to seeing how the game progresses in the future.
Comments
DFO was never advertised as merely a pvp game, but a sandbox game.
DFO was never advertised as merely a sandbox game, but an FFA PvP sandbox game.
Darkfall was advertised as MMORPG with FFA PvP ruleset, not a PvP game. What would be there to loot if there was only PvP ?
Players need to be busy intratcting with the world, collecting goods for making items, collecting reagents for ammo, finding items, what in return attracts others to kill those players for the loot, where should the armor, weapons, ships etc come from if they not result from players going out in the world and collect whats needed to build em.
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DFO was never advertised as merely a sandbox game, but an FFA PvP sandbox game.
http://www.eu.darkfallonline.com/default.php?pname=Features - it's advertised as many things. But sure, it's realistically a hotbed of FFA PvP.
The removed "PvP leveling" because you dont PvP for those "levels", you just hit your friends and they dont fight back. Blood walls as we all remember.
I felt PvP wasn't very good in DFO.
The rest of the game was fantastic, but PvP consisted of two or more people, fighting in the same armor, with the same spells, and the same weapons.
When I told my clan I wanted to go sword and board they laughed at me and kicked me.
If I'm forced to go down a certain path to participate in PvP, I will not enjoy it.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
if all ,or most, of the skill gaining would come from pvp then a low population would most likely be disastrous for the game. also new players would never be able to catch up with old players because being at a disadvantage to begin with they would only get farmed to no end. such a mechanic would quickly discourage new players which brings me to point number one. encouraging pvp kill to gain skills/levels is NEVER a good idea. it only fun for the few hardcore people that do nothing but play the game 24/7 and scares away all the more moderate "casual" players (wich by the way it's the grand majority). this by the way was one of the major failings of games like AoC which encouraged ganking lowbes. all that happend is that new players got killed endlessly and quickly left the game in truck loads in complete frustration. keep in mid that AoC DOESN'T have full looting.
gaining skills from killing npc it's really the best way to do it. it gives the new guys some way to eventually be vialbe in pvp without getting killed and looted endlessly by more powefull players. pvp is still very real and arrond every corner and since there are very few mobs clusters it's not hard for whomever want's to go look for it. on the other hand new players are not subjected to constant unrelentless ownage/greefing/camping from older player that are farming pvp kills, and therfore getting extremely discouraged and leaving the game.
If Darkfall was strictly a FFA PvP game, and not a sandbox game with an FFA PvP ruleset... then I wouln't play. I can also tell you from expirience that for everyone who tries Darkfall expecting it to be strictly and FFA PvP gankfest, there is someone who doesn't try it because of the same expectation.
One thing I'm just failing to grasp here and in any of the endless similer threads... wouldn't Darkfall that was all PvP all the time, where newbs where actively PvPing on day one... just be a typical FPS? It seems to me that it's the none-PvP stuff that makes it an MMORPG. If -ALL- you want to do is PvP... go play Counter Strike.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
A skill based PvP game that allows accelerated leveling via PvP is begging for exploitation. Besides, this game is PvP focused, not a pure PvP game.
PvE will always be part of the equation, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to change.
Morpheus: I imagine that right now, you're feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole?
Neo: You could say that.
Morpheus: I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that's not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know *exactly* what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Neo: Darkfall.
Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?
Neo: Yes.
Morpheus: Darkfall is chaos. It is all around us. Even now, throughout the world. You can see it when you look out into the countryside or when you step outside of town. You can feel it when you go grinding... when you go to craft... When you buy that useless armor that will be destroyed in a hour. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a noob, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into carebearism. Into a prison that you cannot hunt or gank or grief. A prison for your soul.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill -- the game ends, you wake up in your basement and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill -- you stay in Darkfall and I show you how deep the I can shove it in.
(Neo Takes Red-Pill)
Morpheus: Ha! Noob! This is Free-For-All looting!
(Kills Neo)
Morpheus: Thanks for the loot, Jerk. Should've taken the blue pill. You can't touch my stats!
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
( mods please don't ban me =( lol )
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being just and outsider having not tried DF nor really the desire anymore to.
i find it ironicly funny that every thread i read dealing with DF.. is either
A) the PVP is horrible
to which the reply is always. DF is a pvp/pve game. OR the turn around. DF is a pure PVP game..
its like people try to arugue symantics... DF is either a pvp or a pve game.. there really is no such thing as a middle ground anymore in MMOS. you cant just split it down the middle like you can an FPS and non-FPS
why is it everyone is determaned to declair DF one or the other?? this week alone i have read threads/replies declaring PVP dead/pointless in DF and how PVE is all the game has to offer... then i read replies and threads declaring the PVE lacking or non-existant...
so which is it?? is Darkfall a PVP game or is it a PVE game?? please make up your minds... so we can put the arguements about it to rest....
I think Darkfall is different for many people. That's one of the key features of Darkfall. The world is what you make of it. If you want to make the world as carebear as possible, you can. If you want to be a bloody serial killer, you can. If you want to craft non-stop like a kid in a Nike shop, you can. If you want to macro stats, you can.. until you get booted or banned.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Fixed.
More specifically you can't make a statement like "DF is either a pvp or a pve game.. there really is no such thing as a middle ground anymore in MMOS." in relation to a game you've never played.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
I feel Darkfall marketed the game as lots of things and failed to deliver on many of them.
I think you would like Mortal Online. Right now it is in open beta...
www.mortalonline.com
Incorrect,
1, you can lvl in PvP, however its quicker skilling up on mobs [pve] 4x faster.
2, There is loads of PvP, you dont sound like your guilded, as with any game more fun and stuff going on when guilded.
I feel Darkfall marketed the game as lots of things and failed to deliver on many of them.
I think you would like Mortal Online. Right now it is in open beta...
www.mortalonline.com
I doubt that very much, MO open beta = darkfall alpha phase, good luck with MO, its in hell of a bad state.
Heh... Welcome to the Darkfall threads.
This has been a point that the core DF fanbase at large could never seem to quite pick one side or the other on, but will argue either side - as you pointed out - depending on the comment they're replying to. I've called them out on it. Others have called them out on it. They just keep doing it.
When someone's mentioned the lack of PvE, the response has typically been "DF is a FFA PvP MMO with full loot. It doesn't need PvE. Go back to WoW carebear"
When someone has mentioned the PvE being crappy, the response has typically been "DF has the best PvE and most advanced mob AI of any MMO out there. Go back to WoW carebear".
Occasionally, they'll just go with "DF is a sandbox MMO. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held carebear"
I think you just need to read between the lines and see it for what it is... the only thing they are consistent on is defending DF. If they have to contradict themselves multiple times per thread to do so (and some have), they will do so... to defend DF.
DF is a decent game and I enjoyed it when I tried it out (still letting it simmer a bit and will check it out again in a few months or so... still a bit undercooked for me)... Regardless, some of the people in its fanbase are truly entertaining to behold, watching them flip-flop and spin like tops trying to keep DF ahead of any and all criticism.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Most threads i have seen on these forums, especially since the expansion have been positive.
Heh... Welcome to the Darkfall threads.
This has been a point that the core DF fanbase at large could never seem to quite pick one side or the other on, but will argue either side - as you pointed out - depending on the comment they're replying to. I've called them out on it. Others have called them out on it. They just keep doing it.
When someone's mentioned the lack of PvE, the response has typically been "DF is a FFA PvP MMO with full loot. It doesn't need PvE. Go back to WoW carebear"
When someone has mentioned the PvE being crappy, the response has typically been "DF has the best PvE and most advanced mob AI of any MMO out there. Go back to WoW carebear".
Occasionally, they'll just go with "DF is a sandbox MMO. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held carebear"
I think you just need to read between the lines and see it for what it is... the only thing they are consistent on is defending DF. If they have to contradict themselves multiple times per thread to do so (and some have), they will do so... to defend DF.
DF is a decent game and I enjoyed it when I tried it out (still letting it simmer a bit and will check it out again in a few months or so... still a bit undercooked for me)... Regardless, some of the people in its fanbase are truly entertaining to behold, watching them flip-flop and spin like tops trying to keep DF ahead of any and all criticism.
As idiotic as the fanboi DF club has been they pale in comparison haters. Some things of note
DFO was never advertised as merely a sandbox game, but an FFA PvP sandbox game.
f*ck me. DFO was never advertised as mearly a sanbod game, FFA PvP game but an RPG game with RTS elements.
oh wait, it was sold as all of the above.
having said that, the people in DFO who love PvP claim that DFO has the best PvP of any MMO on the market today. For those that say it isnt the first question will be, then which MMO does?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
DFO was never advertised as merely a sandbox game, but an FFA PvP sandbox game.
f*ck me. DFO was never advertised as mearly a sanbod game, FFA PvP game but an RPG game with RTS elements.
oh wait, it was sold as all of the above.
having said that, the people in DFO who love PvP claim that DFO has the best PvP of any MMO on the market today. For those that say it isnt the first question will be, then which MMO does?
Dark Age of Camelot, Planetside, Guild Wars, Shadowbane, EVE, and sometimes WoW.
P.S. All of which had or currently has more subscriptions than Darkfall.
DFO was never advertised as merely a sandbox game, but an FFA PvP sandbox game.
f*ck me. DFO was never advertised as mearly a sanbod game, FFA PvP game but an RPG game with RTS elements.
oh wait, it was sold as all of the above.
having said that, the people in DFO who love PvP claim that DFO has the best PvP of any MMO on the market today. For those that say it isnt the first question will be, then which MMO does?
Dark Age of Camelot, Planetside, Guild Wars, Shadowbane, EVE, and sometimes WoW.
P.S. All of which had or currently has more subscriptions than Darkfall.
DAoC PVP is definitely far superior to DFO's but then again it wasnt ffa pvp, still think a 3 realm pvp model is the better one though, planetside really expanded on that factor, terran vs barnies and smurfs (yeah i played terran
) still going today funnily enough, even though there is only 1 server now.... lots of action though 
Eve without a doubt handles pvp in a far more structured and 'fairer' way, imo at least - still think the npc cities in DFO should have city guards, a knife in the back while banking.. i mean come on, no guards at a bank ???? i do agree though, each of those games probably has more players than DFO does, whether that will continue to be the case really depends on how well some of these 'issues' are handled in the future - hacking and ganking etc, though personally i dont think a ffa pvp game is one that should also have levels in it... the planetside model of certs etc, would have made more sense.. now, a fantasy equivalent of planetside.. that would be interesting 
Nicely done. I am not going to get into a debate over the details of PvP on those games becuase I have played them. Having said that there is one thing in your post I can not possibly stress enough.
More money and more subscriptions does NOT make it better.
If that was the measurement of better you have to understand that it would mean that American Idol would be the best thing ever put on film and mcdonalds would be considered high quality food. Please never use sales as a measurement of quality.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Then you won't enjoy most PvP games.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
All opinions.
I feel DFO's combat is FAR superior to Dark Age of Run-A-Lot. The fact that you posed this game means that it is likely your first MMO.
FFA > > > faction PvP
Skill Based Games > > > ANY class based game
This is my opinion. You may like class systems, I don't.
@OP
Clearly I am playing a different game than you are, or you never left the newbie areas. for one there are big differences in armor sets.
The fact that you like WaR leveling means you like grind with absolutely no variety. Maybe you enjoy waiting in line to grind the same instance hundreds of times to level, but this isn't PvP in my eyes.