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/rage at the mods (official site, not here!)
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Also, I have some inside info. Once there was a 24 hour bug on the CO forums that allowed me and some others to see the "Staff Lounge", which is the repository for all banned and reported posts. The inside tip, that some people already know, is that reporting someone almost always results in moderation. Basically, the report button should have it's name changed to "give this user an infraction."
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Nope its not, its exactly what has been going on. The posts are still there, just locked. Some have had their posted filtered, for excessive trolling, but not the majority.
No my opinion is that these mods are against any type of critism to their game and are doing everything they can to stifle opposing opinions. if they would have built the game correctly none of this would be happening . people don't scream over a good product they scream when they have been sold a bill of goods that is basically a shell of what it should be at this point.
If that were the case the threads wouldn't be locked, they'd be deleted.
Every single MMO these days has hate threads and plenty of them.
And if you would be truthful you would say they have been deleting them. Which they have been doing to some of them.
Sorry, you are just wrong. Going back to beta, fanboys have had free run. If they dont like a thread, they flame it away. Its been happening since beta, and still happening. You can make all the excuses you want to for cryptic, they are their own worst enemy and if you really enjoy playing it would be smart to hope they turn their PR nightmare and in turn their game around.
No my opinion is that these mods are against any type of critism to their game and are doing everything they can to stifle opposing opinions. if they would have built the game correctly none of this would be happening . people don't scream over a good product they scream when they have been sold a bill of goods that is basically a shell of what it should be at this point.
And that is very true. 90% won't cry if the game is at least decent at launch. I mean, why would people hate on forums while they are rather ingame.
Look Grapevine, most of the MMO's we get today are utter crap, with a few exceptions ofcourse. If a game is THAT bad, well too bad for the mods, but people WILL troll.
There are a few developers who need a kick in the bullocks.
I'm not making any excuse for Cryptic. Those people did get banned for a valid reason. Whether they are banning or not defenders who are flaming is another matter, but it does not divert from the fact these people got what was deserved.
And that's the mentality that leads to bannings. Developers, no matter the game are people, with feelings. They aren't there to be abused.
It very much is part of the point. Good grief man. No point in arguing with you. You can not be this naive.
I'm not arguing, I'm discussing.
I'm by no means in approval of defenders who flame not being repromanded, but when someone is banned for a reason that's just it (i.e. no getting around it). I'd not even care whatever MMO forum this thread was in.
And that's the mentality that leads to bannings. Developers, no matter the game are people, with feelings. They aren't there to be abused.
No, you don't get me. I know they are people. BUT, we pay for their product. Because it's not the first game (MMO) we play, we (the gamers) have a certain standard. If the developers make a game, that's not even 50% of that standerd, people will flame/troll/whatever, because they payed for it!
It's the same if you go to a butcher, to buy some meat. You expect a certain standard of that meat, but you don't get that, you get some cheap rip off mince. Nice that the butcher is a person, but in the end, it's business. And we're the buyers.
So, they aren't there to be abused, but are we here to be ripped off?
You weren't being ripped off, you just didn't like the game. Plenty however do. I hated DA:Orgins and also FF XIII, I wasn't ripped off by buying them though. I simply regret buying them, but I know other's didn't.
Just because one doesn't like something doesn't mean your opinion is valid and the game is terrible. Its only valid to you and those who think the same. Those feeling differently are entitled to do so, just as much as you are.
I was wondering when a ranking member of the CDF would show up to slag off the banned and defend Cryptic to the hilt.
The truth of the matter is that Cryptic has acted shady with this game from almost the very beginning. Now you have an unsatisfied playerbase, major screw-ups in the Cryptic/Atari PR department, a game that simply has no depth at all, and forum moderators and admins who deal with every single problem by deleting threads and banning people left and right.
If Cryptic took the criticism threads seriously from the very beginning, acknowledged their mistakes and the shortcomings of their game, then none of this would have ever happened.
Actually, the whole banning thing started when people complained about the 90 days free fiasco. They decided that the best way to deal with any criticism at all was to delete threads and ban users. I've never seen such a shoddily run MMO forum in my entire gaming career.
Again, down to the attitude of those being banned. Atari screwed up big time over the 90 day offer, but those who got banned were seriously out of order by how they reacted to it.
There has been some complete jerks on the STO forum, who were rightfully band. A fair few then came here trying to claim they were unjusifiably banned, which is a joke.
Also I havn't slagged off anybody and re-read the post you quoted. I'm being neutral.
Cryptic is in triage mode. Stop the bleeding, control the message, project a confident smile...everything is fine, games doing great...it's just a small small amount of dumb players who "don't get it". After all, they wouldn't be able "to grasp" real 3D space, so we need to dumb it down.
Their new extreme attempts at silencing those willing to criticize is simple desperation, along with the two fire sales recently.
Protip: You're always safe quoting a post containing the words "Cryptic" and "love" and posting "QFT".
Do you expect anything else from a business trying to sell a product? This is what I do not understand, as we see this with every single game and company tied to them. These are businesses, do you expect them to allow bad press about their business, and their product on the very forum devoted to that product? That's what third party sites are for, such as the one you're on right now.
I am not aware of any company that will self promote bad publicity about themselves, which is what they would be doing by allowing such heated comments to stay alive and active on their forum. It is what it is, damage control.
You can't really blame them for wanting to route out unfavorable opinion of themselves, within their own community. The forum is where you are directed by them to find information or help regarding their product, why would they direct you somewhere you will find 100 reasons to not want to be their customer?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thats what gets some even more upset because they are not. I have seen many well spoken criticisms of the game flamed to no end by the ardent game supporters without one bit of moderation taken to remove the flames and trolls from those threads.
Yup, I have been reading a ton of those post.
It's all one sided over there when it comes to the Bans.
No freedom of speech occuring there.
Can someone please direct me to the company that allows the use of free (anything goes) speech on their forum? I'm unaware of any such company existing. Even on this site, if you come down on them they are going to bite back. Hell admin will rip you a knew one if you down any of their writers, or have something negative to say about their use of advertisements. And rightfully so...
As for fairness, don't expect much in this regard. They are first and foremost a business, their interest is in making money, and selling products. Of course they will be unfair in how they treat those who hate them compared to those who are content and spending money (or defending them). Can you blame them given their purpose and mission (selling products)?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yup, I have been reading a ton of those post.
It's all one sided over there when it comes to the Bans.
No freedom of speech occuring there.
I seriously thought I'd never see a community that was worse than WoW but I was wrong. Seems like any negative critism there gets hammered by fans. Even a criticism that is neutrally worded is followed by multiple posts calling the OP a "whiner" or that he's QQing. I think a lot of the forum posters over there think they have some kind of friendship with the mods. But I think part of that is cryptics fault as they apparently allow a lot of fraternizing there. Multiple issues on both side won't get a response but you've got the mods posting about their favorite ship names or star trek episodes. if they stayed off the general forum all together unless there was a problem I think it would eliminate some of the one sidedness.
Can someone please direct me to the company that allows the use of free (anything goes) speech on their forum? I'm unaware of any such company existing. Even on this site, if you come down on them they are going to bite back. Hell admin will rip you a knew one if you down any of their writers, or have something negative to say about their use of advertisements. And rightfully so...
As for fairness, don't expect much in this regard. They are first and foremost a business, their interest is in making money, and selling products. Of course they will be unfair in how they treat those who hate them compared to those who are content and spending money (or defending them). Can you blame them given their purpose and mission (selling products)?
I have seen many MMO forums where they let it go on to a point. Even telling the Fanbois to watch their tongue. And even when I felt they should of been banned, but they never were.
But not there, the fanboi's can piss on all.
But if a Nay Sayer polietly points out why the game wasn't for him he gets fingered, by those who are so desperately trying to stop this hemmorage, to be banned for causing the riot.
It's like someone stepping up and saying 'I really don't like Mondays' to have the nearby mob beat him to a pulp and then the cops come and arrest him.
Can someone please direct me to the company that allows the use of free (anything goes) speech on their forum? I'm unaware of any such company existing. Even on this site, if you come down on them they are going to bite back. Hell admin will rip you a knew one if you down any of their writers, or have something negative to say about their use of advertisements. And rightfully so...
As for fairness, don't expect much in this regard. They are first and foremost a business, their interest is in making money, and selling products. Of course they will be unfair in how they treat those who hate them compared to those who are content and spending money (or defending them). Can you blame them given their purpose and mission (selling products)?
I have seen many MMO forums where they let it go on to a point. Even telling the Fanbois to watch their tongue. And even when I felt they should of been banned, but they never were.
But not there, the fanboi's can piss on all. But if a Nay Sayer polietley points out why the game wasn't for him, he gets fingered by those who are so desperately trying to stop this hemmorage to be banned for causing the riot.
It's like someone stepping up and saying 'I really don't like Mondays' to have the nearby mob beat him to a pulp and then the cops come and arrest him.
Sure I can buy that, no sarcasm intended.
However I'm not saying show me a company that punishes fanbois. I'm saying show me a company that helps support it's own bad publicity especially in a manner in which potential customers will be seeing it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
lemme set this up so you at least maybe get that im not just bullshitting here.
Im Autistic. Medium functionality PDD-NOS Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified) - personally I think it means they dont know what the hell is wrong with me. I also have a dissocial personality disorder, and am Bipolar. I am mentally challenged/disabled. I say this up front so you dont think Im lying (although I do realize its the Internet but w/e I tried).
The name I posted under on the STO forums until yesterday was Great_Milenko
A couple days ago, I was posting in a thread, about how STO is more likely to fail because of the Trek fans' expectations that it should be tailored to THEIR personal ideal of Trek, rather than accepting the story they gave us. Anyways, another poster was just destorying me in the argument, mainly cause I dont debate well as I just have huge difficulties putting out what I WANT to say, and eventually, he was just trolling. It got to the point where I said "lol its funny you cant let this go EVER" and among the several posts where this guy was insulting my intelligence and such, he says "OMG I know, your lack of ability to type or make rational points without tripping yourself up or tying yourself up in knots NEVER seems to get old." To which I replied "Must be so satisfying for you to beat mentally challenged ppl in debates huh?"
I got an infraction for that a little while later because Phoxe said it was "trolling"
According to him, after I tried to find a way to elevate my point past him to his boss (he doesnt seem to have ontr btw), he started backpedalling in the infraction notice he sent me:
"You did not get an infraction here for claiming to be mentally handicapped. In fact, had you not pointed it out, I wouldn't even see this as a claim towards being mentally handicapped. This kind of statement is against policy because it will be taken as an insult, and will incite flaming posts. It's not what you said, it's how you phrased it.
By mentioning your mental handicap in this manner, you made no claim towards being mentally handicapped yourself, simply that the person you're replying to enjoys harassing mentally handicapped people. Without any foreknowledge of you being handicapped, this comes off as an insult."
Funny thing about this is AtomicFB picks up on EXACTLY what I was saying in the nxt post, but Phoxe pretends like I wasnt being clear
"If you wanted to make a statement along the lines of this in the future, but wish to avoid infractions, a better way of saying it would be something more explicit, along the lines perhaps of:
"I thought I'd point out that I'm mentally challenged, and I don't appreciate the hostility you're giving me."
Heres the rub: The infraction he sent that to me was one of three TEN POINT infractions I recieved at the same time. I like how he's giving me advice of how to properly respond as he's permabanning me from the forums. The three infractions were for the following posts:
"Originally Posted by Great_Milenko
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Seadgir"
I am so unbelievably angry right now
"I PMmed Phoxe about that edit, and Im trying to figure out how to elevate my anger to a superior, but I dont know how. Any ideas?"
and
---Quote (Originally by Great_Milenko)---
Apparently admitting that you are mentally disabled does this as well
Which I AM, and I just took a hit for admitting it in another thread. A fact about which I am supremely angry right now
A poster was gloating that I cant debate well, and tend to trip myself up in debates and I told him WHY
And I got snipped.
---End Quote---
He did NOT however, moderate the guy that had been up to that point trolling ME. Heres the thread: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2335150#post2335150 He really started destroying me in the debate around like page 22 cause the UN = starflet >.< but that link is up to where I got moderated. Funny part is I actually have to argue the point afterwards cause he doesnt stop, ands NONE of THIS gets moderated either.
So I get a total of 35 unexpiring points in the span of a day, for venting and asking how to get an appeal.
THIS guy:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2344390&postcount=93
"swag-nyc had his 'calling out the webmaster' thread closed today because it was retarded. He then posted a thread complaining about the lock, which was closed and the account banned. The AuntRemus account then appeared immediately after...and was banned for flaming after two hours. Just couldn't hold it in. AtomicFB comes into existence to post a thread about the appeals process, and is banned for breaking the rules. Again. 2Dragon appears immediately afterwards, and responds to a post made towards AtomicFB with "I did send a PM" and continues spamming on the same subject."
Discusses moderation no less than SEVEN times in that paragraph, Calls ppl out (which is also infractable), while responding to a guy that I KNOW the mods would say was trolling (which is also an infractible offense) and doesnt get moderated.
Lastly, GM_Destra did a blog yesterday, where (among other things) it outlined their policy of how they "deal" with griefers, and the outline can best be described as punishing the victim, not the victimizer.
"Griefing
How do we deal with griefing?
Players who are found griefing accrue account penalties in the same form they would if they were found harassing another player. However, it's not always black and white. We look at a few factors to determine if someone is truly at fault.
First of all, we have to see if the instigation is one-sided. One thing that griefers are always looking for is to elicit a response from the "griefee" (lack for a better term). If the player who is being griefed is freaking out and threatening the griefer, then they are basically encouraging the griefer to continue, and we're not going to intervene. In order for us to take action against a griefer, the griefee needs to be totally innocent: not insulting the griefer, not making threats to get them banned, etc. If you are asking to be picked on, we can't take your side.
If we're going to take action against a griefer, we need to see the following:
The player who reported the griefing has attempted to resolve the issue on their own by responding maturely with a request to stop.
The player who reported the griefing has tried to resolve the issue on their own by using the tools available to them, such as change instance, ignore, etc. (These options are context dependent.)
The player reporting the griefing is not baiting the griefer in chat.
Usually, griefers are only looking for a volatile response from people. If you keep calm about their actions, they usually leave you alone without having to involve a customer service representative. But if someone is really trying to ruin your day, don’t hesitate to ask for help."
They REALIZE that griefers are LOOKING for ppl that are going to react this way, but theyre so worried about the griefer's feelings being hurt by the guy theyre griefing's bad language, they might let the act of griefing go unpunished.
THESE guys are SCREWED UP
I won't quote the above poster's post. Cause that would use a ton of electrons. 'O_o'
But I guess the moral of this thread is it's majority rules over there.
Sorry to hear about your situation, but not a surprise really.
They apparently are doing their best to keep those dedicated to the game from being infected with common sense and intelligence.
Cryptic/Atari's mentally is 'If they are blind to obvious flaws, then lets keep them that way by weeding out what we deem to be cancer.'
But luckily we have other places on the web where Cryptic and Atari can do nothing more than read and lump it.
Welcome to the MMORPG.COM club.
Wow, still amazes me when people try to defend this company and how they deal with people on the forums/ingame. I hope to see this company out of business by the end of this year (would benefit the MMO Community).