I think it's more important to talk about people who play on a PVE server and complain about the lack of PVP going on, on that server. While you could say tell them to re-roll on a PVP server, most wouldn't do it, simply because most of them don't have the the stomach to do it. I've seen folks in WoW, once they got to 80th lvl and in full T9.5 (and some T10), and some current Season PVP gear, THEN transfer to a PVP server. Then they come back talking about how awsome they are over there. Would those same folks roll up a new toon once they were on that PVP server? Again, most likely not.
Reading through this thread there are some good points being made. In fact there seem to be two issues coming out of this topic.
1. Game mechanics/style of game. From pve, to rp, to pk lite, to hardcore pvp, everyone has their preference. Whether it's a serious rp/pve game where not addressing someone as Milord or Milady is grounds for flaming to total FFA pvp like the old school Asheron's Call Darktide server, where the first words you hear when you log in your newly minted lvl 1 is some lvl 275 saying "hello, my name is Inigo Montoya....".
Regardless of your preference, most all devs and companies have the same preference. it's called "Give me your money please". They design a game with the main goal of drawing a player base that is as large and loyal as possible. Some focus more on large and try to put in something for everyone. Others lean towards loyal, and concentrate on one dynamic in the hopes of keeping those players around longer. Then theres the majority, who try to live somewhere in the middle, with greater and lesser success. The ultimate key here is simple: find games that best match your preferences.
2. The other issue are the whiners/trolls. The pvpers who log into the rp server with their character named "LeEtdOOd" solely to troll. The knucklehead on a pvp server whining that it wasn't fair that he was killed in the middle of town because he was afk or checking hid facebook status. let's face it, some people are never happy and will always whine no matter what anyone esle does. The key for these folks is simple also: SHUT UP.
For these folks however, while many hate you and see you as an annoyance, I am here for you. I am here to officially announce my new MMORPG: World of WAAAHcraft. Earn xp for creative crying. The more people that /ignore/squelch you, that more levels you can earn. As you gain levels, you unlock new abilities and emotes from low level crying to the ultimate powers of actually having your character able to roll on the floor throwing a temper tantrum INCLUDING full sound effects (recorded on an endless loop of an actual hungry 2 year old with diaper rash). Pre-orders now available.
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
Problem doesn't come only from the 'carebears'. It comes from the griefers who despite signing up for an mmoRPG want to treat the game like a giant ffa pvp map on a console game.
You ask why carebears play on pvp servers. I ask why hardcore pvp'ers play in a rpg game.
Problem doesn't come only from the 'carebears'. It comes from the griefers who despite signing up for an mmoRPG want to treat the game like a giant ffa pvp map on a console game.
You ask why carebears play on pvp servers. I ask why hardcore pvp'ers play in a rpg game.
Plenty of blame to go around.
I already brought that up and he agreed. It's just as annoying when some jackhole pvper gets on a RP server and starts trolling people.
I think it's more important to talk about people who play on a PVE server and complain about the lack of PVP going on, on that server. While you could say tell them to re-roll on a PVP server, most wouldn't do it, simply because most of them don't have the the stomach to do it. I've seen folks in WoW, once they got to 80th lvl and in full T9.5 (and some T10), and some current Season PVP gear, THEN transfer to a PVP server. Then they come back talking about how awsome they are over there. Would those same folks roll up a new toon once they were on that PVP server? Again, most likely not.
This. So true. A lot of them are COWARDS. They would never truly be hardcore and go from lvl 1 on a PvP server. They hide it out on a RP server or PvE server then transfer to a PvP server and act all gangsta lean l33t PvPer. That's just sad. OR they stay on the RP/PvE server and abuse the flagging system and blue flag people. Rogues LOVE to do this. They wait till someone flags while they are unflagged and then ambush the guy. Seen it happen so many times. Beware if it seems to good to be true to find a lowbie out somewhere flagged. He probably has buddies stealthed nearby. I forget the name of the guild on WoW but there was one that was famous for doing this. They would have "bait" set out and then they would have rogues nearby stealthed and basically rape your face off if you flagged and attacked the bait.
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Once again, I woudl say no consequences is pretty carebear if we are going to use that term. There is nothign "hardcore" to not having any consequences therefore the term carebear can readily be pointed at any game or server that doesn't have consequences. I think a good many hardcore pvp players would say that no risk = carebear.
If we are going to use that term.
Exp loss for dying to someone within a certain level range.
Of course you need penalties for sucking at PvP, just like it should be for PvE.
It just seems to me that you so readily use the word carebear for a more hardcore pvp mechanic.
Anyone can go pk someone. But it takes more purpose to do so knowing that you will have to pay the consequences.
Using the word carebear as a derogatory term to people who whine and complain only to whine and complain about a more hardcore game play mechanic seems a bit ironic.
Personally I don't like the word. I do agree that if someone plays on a pvp server they should accept that it is a pvp server. End of discussion.
But to call a mechanic that forces the attacker to have to deal with his choice "carebear". Just doesn't add up.
I might go so far as to say that in a war zone or even better if you are at war with a faction you shouldn't go red or have any consequence.
but I like the more hardcore mode that forces a player to make a decision that has consequences if one is to play a ffa game. Just seems sort of odd that you use the word carebear but embrace a game ideology that others might consider carebear.
In any case there aren't many of those old games left where a player has to go red so I'd be curious as to what example you are thinking of.
You said:
My thought is that if you want to kill another player you should have consequences and be strong enough to withstand those consequences
FFA PvP consequences: Killing someone usually pisses them off, and they will probably try to kill you eventually.
What is your idea of consequences? Penalizing someone for PvPing? Like in WoW? Raiding a town, -50 honor points per guard kill. They penalized the people who PvPed in WoW..
Don't see how penalizing people for engaging in PvP is hardcore.. good if you want a carebear server that has no PvP at all. Then you can label your game as supporting PvP even though it has non because of the retarded ruleset.
People should be penalized for dying, depending on the level of attacker, but not be penalized for killing anyone
Once again, I woudl say no consequences is pretty carebear if we are going to use that term. There is nothign "hardcore" to not having any consequences therefore the term carebear can readily be pointed at any game or server that doesn't have consequences. I think a good many hardcore pvp players would say that no risk = carebear.
If we are going to use that term.
Exp loss for dying to someone within a certain level range.
Of course you need penalties for sucking at PvP, just like it should be for PvE.
It just seems to me that you so readily use the word carebear for a more hardcore pvp mechanic.
Anyone can go pk someone. But it takes more purpose to do so knowing that you will have to pay the consequences.
Using the word carebear as a derogatory term to people who whine and complain only to whine and complain about a more hardcore game play mechanic seems a bit ironic.
Personally I don't like the word. I do agree that if someone plays on a pvp server they should accept that it is a pvp server. End of discussion.
But to call a mechanic that forces the attacker to have to deal with his choice "carebear". Just doesn't add up.
I might go so far as to say that in a war zone or even better if you are at war with a faction you shouldn't go red or have any consequence.
but I like the more hardcore mode that forces a player to make a decision that has consequences if one is to play a ffa game. Just seems sort of odd that you use the word carebear but embrace a game ideology that others might consider carebear.
In any case there aren't many of those old games left where a player has to go red so I'd be curious as to what example you are thinking of.
You said:
My thought is that if you want to kill another player you should have consequences and be strong enough to withstand those consequences
FFA PvP consequences: Killing someone usually pisses them off, and they will probably try to kill you eventually.
What is your idea of consequences? Penalizing someone for PvPing? Like in WoW? Raiding a town, -50 honor points per guard kill. They penalized the people who PvPed in WoW..
Don't see how penalizing people for engaging in PvP is hardcore.. good if you want a carebear server that has no PvP at all. Then you can label your game as supporting PvP even though it has non because of the retarded ruleset.
People should be penalized for dying, depending on the level of attacker, but not be penalized for killing anyone
lol wow? please.
wow is not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, it can be hard I"m sure, but I consider games like Eve and Lineage 2 and Darkfall to be hard core pvp games.
There is a difference between killing someone who you are at war with, killing someone in your territory or essentially killing a player "just because". Therefore I am for a flagging system for killling players "just because".
I seem to remember many a day in Lineage 2 washing karma with my clan mates guarding me (or vice versa) so that we were not caught by the enemy. Because at that time if you were red you immediately dropped.
Regardless of what you think, a flagging system is not carebear, especially if you can drop when going red.
My thought is that there should be a war system where one declares and the war does not end until both sides agree to win/lose or draw.
It just seems to me that you are miffed because you can't just kill people with impunity. But you know what, my bigger issue is using the word "carebear" on removing a harder system. Personally I could care less about what rule set a game has as long as all the players abide by that ruleset. But you think that removing a system that makes the game harder is carebear. amazing. A system where you can drop items? Doesn't sound carebear to me. Sounds like you aren't willing to commit to that act no matter the consequences.
However, if we are talking about wow then, um "sure", if there is some sort of negative for killing guards in wow then why not remove it. It's not like you really lose xp or drop items. Though now that I think of it... Killing guards? NPC's? Since when is killing npc's hardcore pvp?
I thought we were talking about players?
so were are not talking about a hardcore pvp game then?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I have to agree with the OP, There is a reason they make different servers. The rules are clearly laid out and there is no reason to change them because of a few whiners..The answer is simple GTFO and join the correct server you noobs.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I have to agree with the OP, There is a reason they make different servers. The rules are clearly laid out and there is no reason to change them because of a few whiners..The answer is simple GTFO and join the correct server you noobs.
In that I completely agree with him.
But I still don't believe removing systems taht make the game harder is "carebear".
But yes, people should abide by the system the game has in place. Permadeath, looting, whatever.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I am tired of joining games that offer a pvp alternative, just to have the developer dumb it down or punish pvp actions in it because all the carebears that join the pvp servers " cause my sister plays there " or for any other reason, whine and whine about "being killed while they quested".
Most games nowadays offer both pvp and pve alternatives, so if you ain´t gonna enjoy the outdoor pvp action, then simply DO NOT join a pvp server, join the PVE server, which is made ON PRUPOSE for the people like you.
And no "i had to join the pvp cause my friends play in it " is not an excuse for you to pretend the whole server to change just because you aint feeling confortable in it.
One of the reasons WoW pvp became non existant was exactly this one, the fact people just kept whining about getting killed or about having their faction npc´s killed by invading forces, on PVP REALMS.
Both pvpers and carebears have the right to play the game their own way, and both have the tool to do it, which is to play the game in the server type that caters to each player´s needs.
So people who join the wrong type and then whine and whine about it until it´s changed should re-consider.
deal if you can keep the pvp tards off pve servers talkin trash in gen chat all the time about how uber they are in pvp and whining about how sucky the pvp is on the pve server
deal if you can keep the pvp tards off pve servers talkin trash in gen chat all the time about how uber they are in pvp and whining about how sucky the pvp is on the pve server
I also agree, The knife cuts both ways.
I can see why pvpers migrate to pve servers because those servers have a higher pop, but still they should not bitch about it not being a pvp server.
What I don't understand is why a pve player would join a pvp server...and don't give me that bullshat about "my sister is on this server". Nut up and tell your sister to GTFO and go to the correct server.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
deal if you can keep the pvp tards off pve servers talkin trash in gen chat all the time about how uber they are in pvp and whining about how sucky the pvp is on the pve server
I also agree, The knife cuts both ways.
I can see why pvpers migrate to pve servers because those servers have a higher pop, but still they should not bitch about it not being a pvp server.
What I don't understand is why a pve player would join a pvp server...and don't give me that bullshat about "my sister is on this server". Nut up and tell your sister to GTFO and go to the correct server.
I agree.
The ruleset should be the rule set.
Also I don't know of many pve players who would go to a pvp server, regardless of whose sister or girlfriend or therapist plays on it.
The problem seems to be that players are not willing to accept the rules that certain games have.
If one doesn't like a game where one flags then don't play it. That is the ruleset. If one doesn't like looting then don't play it, that is the ruleset.
If one can't stand that there is no pvp other than consensual then don't play it, that is the ruleset.
You are completely correct, knife cuts both ways.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think its easer to complain than it is to pack up and move to a new server IMO. Again not the servers rule set's problem.
As far as the pvpers on a pve server and bragging about how lame the pve server is. This tells me that these so called pvpers could not hack it on the pvp server so they put there tails between their legs and ran to the pve server. Again not the servers rule set's problem >these lame #$^%# need to put up or shut up.
The bottom line is Dev's should not change the way they have their rules set up. Its the players who need to pack there bags and move.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Yup, providing the game is up-front about it.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Yup, providing the game is up-front about it.
If a games only going to have one server then it needs to offer different options for different types of players.
If not then is going to be pure fail with a very small playerbase (compare Eve to DF).
deal if you can keep the pvp tards off pve servers talkin trash in gen chat all the time about how uber they are in pvp and whining about how sucky the pvp is on the pve server
I also agree, The knife cuts both ways.
I can see why pvpers migrate to pve servers because those servers have a higher pop, but still they should not bitch about it not being a pvp server.
What I don't understand is why a pve player would join a pvp server...and don't give me that bullshat about "my sister is on this server". Nut up and tell your sister to GTFO and go to the correct server.
I agree.
The ruleset should be the rule set.
Also I don't know of many pve players who would go to a pvp server, regardless of whose sister or girlfriend or therapist plays on it.
The problem seems to be that players are not willing to accept the rules that certain games have.
If one doesn't like a game where one flags then don't play it. That is the ruleset. If one doesn't like looting then don't play it, that is the ruleset.
If one can't stand that there is no pvp other than consensual then don't play it, that is the ruleset.
A Wild West PvP style game would be interesting. Bounty Hunt or form posses to hunt down PKs and hang em in town square! God I'd love to see a griefer swing from the gallows. ;-)
This can only work if you can't escape by logging out.
For such a system to work, you can't log out if you're "red flagged", or whatever mechanic is used. The best you can hope for is to find a place in a player-controlled city where you HOPE your guildies will protect you. But if the bounty hunters are tough enough, they can find you and kill you while you're having dinner offline. Of course, this also requires that death *matter*, or your guildies will just kill you to clear the mark. UO found one thing that worked -- have death cause permanent loss of stats that takes days of tedious grinding to recover. (And if you go out and PK some more, you risk dying again, with more stat loss, etc, etc, etc.)
Strictly enforced SCS (Single character/server) would also be required, along with some mechanic for "aiding and abetting" and "trafficiking in stolen goods". (i.e, you can't get a "blue" to heal you, group with you, or hold your loot, without him also being flagged).
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Yup, providing the game is up-front about it.
If a games only going to have one server then it needs to offer different options for different types of players.
If not then is going to be pure fail with a very small playerbase (compare Eve to DF).
Oh, I absolutely agree .. but that wasn't the guys question.
I wouldn't sign up for Darkfall and complain about being ganked, 'cos I know that if I sign up for Darkfall there's a very good chance that I will be ganked. I don't complain about being ganked in low-sec space in EVE either.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
What I really hate is developers throwing pvp and pve together in a game, although that game is based on only one of them. Why don't they simply have the courage to say "this game is pve only.Deal with it" (same goes for pvp). I would rather play a game that does one of the two right than play a game that mixes both. Though there are games that do both reasonably well, but most of the time, both pvp and pve end up being horrible because the game was supposed to carter to as many people as possible.
I also hate whiners. Those people that keep complaining. It's so annoying when the chat gets spammed by them. Not only because there is either not enough pvp or because they get ganked, they complain about everything, I swear. They didn't get the equipment they wanted, quests were too hard for them, other people stole their mobs, the game sucks, weather is bad...
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Yup, providing the game is up-front about it.
If a games only going to have one server then it needs to offer different options for different types of players.
If not then is going to be pure fail with a very small playerbase (compare Eve to DF).
Or maybe it just isn't the type of game for a particular type of person. If you buy a game that's advertised as having Type A ruleset, you are tacitly accepting that this is the ruleset you will be expected to play under. Complaining that it doesn't have Type B ruleset would be like knowingly buying a car with an automatic transmission and then bitching to the manufacturer that you can't power shift it.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Here's my deal. I agree with the OP because in his scenario pvers have a choice in the type of server they can choose so they shouldn't complain. I also agree with the people in single server games like EVE that give everyone options. I mean don't bitch about low sec if you have perfectly good high sec to carebear in.
What i disagree with are the one server players that don't give people a choice. Obviouslt bears will still try these games due to features in game. so imo its a failure on the devs part to not offer them a way to play also. So I think they should complain and try to change the game a bit.
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Yup, providing the game is up-front about it.
If a games only going to have one server then it needs to offer different options for different types of players.
If not then is going to be pure fail with a very small playerbase (compare Eve to DF).
Or maybe it just isn't the type of game for a particular type of person. If you buy a game that's advertised as having Type A ruleset, you are tacitly accepting that this is the ruleset you will be expected to play under. Complaining that it doesn't have Type B ruleset would be like knowingly buying a car with an automatic transmission and then bitching to the manufacturer that you can't power shift it.
Hardcoded rule sets died with trammel. If your making a mmo and don't give both pvpers and pvers options to play their games then its fail. I'm a pvper and dont see why pvers can't have their own piece of the pie when it comes to these games.
Comments
I think it's more important to talk about people who play on a PVE server and complain about the lack of PVP going on, on that server. While you could say tell them to re-roll on a PVP server, most wouldn't do it, simply because most of them don't have the the stomach to do it. I've seen folks in WoW, once they got to 80th lvl and in full T9.5 (and some T10), and some current Season PVP gear, THEN transfer to a PVP server. Then they come back talking about how awsome they are over there. Would those same folks roll up a new toon once they were on that PVP server? Again, most likely not.
Reading through this thread there are some good points being made. In fact there seem to be two issues coming out of this topic.
1. Game mechanics/style of game. From pve, to rp, to pk lite, to hardcore pvp, everyone has their preference. Whether it's a serious rp/pve game where not addressing someone as Milord or Milady is grounds for flaming to total FFA pvp like the old school Asheron's Call Darktide server, where the first words you hear when you log in your newly minted lvl 1 is some lvl 275 saying "hello, my name is Inigo Montoya....".
Regardless of your preference, most all devs and companies have the same preference. it's called "Give me your money please". They design a game with the main goal of drawing a player base that is as large and loyal as possible. Some focus more on large and try to put in something for everyone. Others lean towards loyal, and concentrate on one dynamic in the hopes of keeping those players around longer. Then theres the majority, who try to live somewhere in the middle, with greater and lesser success. The ultimate key here is simple: find games that best match your preferences.
2. The other issue are the whiners/trolls. The pvpers who log into the rp server with their character named "LeEtdOOd" solely to troll. The knucklehead on a pvp server whining that it wasn't fair that he was killed in the middle of town because he was afk or checking hid facebook status. let's face it, some people are never happy and will always whine no matter what anyone esle does. The key for these folks is simple also: SHUT UP.
For these folks however, while many hate you and see you as an annoyance, I am here for you. I am here to officially announce my new MMORPG: World of WAAAHcraft. Earn xp for creative crying. The more people that /ignore/squelch you, that more levels you can earn. As you gain levels, you unlock new abilities and emotes from low level crying to the ultimate powers of actually having your character able to roll on the floor throwing a temper tantrum INCLUDING full sound effects (recorded on an endless loop of an actual hungry 2 year old with diaper rash). Pre-orders now available.
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
~Omar Khayyam
Problem doesn't come only from the 'carebears'. It comes from the griefers who despite signing up for an mmoRPG want to treat the game like a giant ffa pvp map on a console game.
You ask why carebears play on pvp servers. I ask why hardcore pvp'ers play in a rpg game.
Plenty of blame to go around.
I already brought that up and he agreed. It's just as annoying when some jackhole pvper gets on a RP server and starts trolling people.
This. So true. A lot of them are COWARDS. They would never truly be hardcore and go from lvl 1 on a PvP server. They hide it out on a RP server or PvE server then transfer to a PvP server and act all gangsta lean l33t PvPer. That's just sad. OR they stay on the RP/PvE server and abuse the flagging system and blue flag people. Rogues LOVE to do this. They wait till someone flags while they are unflagged and then ambush the guy. Seen it happen so many times. Beware if it seems to good to be true to find a lowbie out somewhere flagged. He probably has buddies stealthed nearby. I forget the name of the guild on WoW but there was one that was famous for doing this. They would have "bait" set out and then they would have rogues nearby stealthed and basically rape your face off if you flagged and attacked the bait.
I'm surprised to find that I agree with the OP. Well, the principle .. not the vitriol.
I don't think that people should join a PvP server and complain about the PvP ruleset.
I feel the same about people who join RP servers and spam "lol" every 3 seconds.
The server is what the server is. You join it in the full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into and if you subsequently decide that you can't enjoy the ruleset, then the ball is in your court to do something about it; find a way to enjoy it or transfer to a server with a different ruleset.
It's unreasonable to expect the server to change to accommodate you.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Would you say the same about a game which has only 1 server?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
You said:
My thought is that if you want to kill another player you should have consequences and be strong enough to withstand those consequences
FFA PvP consequences: Killing someone usually pisses them off, and they will probably try to kill you eventually.
What is your idea of consequences? Penalizing someone for PvPing? Like in WoW? Raiding a town, -50 honor points per guard kill. They penalized the people who PvPed in WoW..
Don't see how penalizing people for engaging in PvP is hardcore.. good if you want a carebear server that has no PvP at all. Then you can label your game as supporting PvP even though it has non because of the retarded ruleset.
People should be penalized for dying, depending on the level of attacker, but not be penalized for killing anyone
lol wow? please.
wow is not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, it can be hard I"m sure, but I consider games like Eve and Lineage 2 and Darkfall to be hard core pvp games.
There is a difference between killing someone who you are at war with, killing someone in your territory or essentially killing a player "just because". Therefore I am for a flagging system for killling players "just because".
I seem to remember many a day in Lineage 2 washing karma with my clan mates guarding me (or vice versa) so that we were not caught by the enemy. Because at that time if you were red you immediately dropped.
Regardless of what you think, a flagging system is not carebear, especially if you can drop when going red.
My thought is that there should be a war system where one declares and the war does not end until both sides agree to win/lose or draw.
It just seems to me that you are miffed because you can't just kill people with impunity. But you know what, my bigger issue is using the word "carebear" on removing a harder system. Personally I could care less about what rule set a game has as long as all the players abide by that ruleset. But you think that removing a system that makes the game harder is carebear. amazing. A system where you can drop items? Doesn't sound carebear to me. Sounds like you aren't willing to commit to that act no matter the consequences.
However, if we are talking about wow then, um "sure", if there is some sort of negative for killing guards in wow then why not remove it. It's not like you really lose xp or drop items. Though now that I think of it... Killing guards? NPC's? Since when is killing npc's hardcore pvp?
I thought we were talking about players?
so were are not talking about a hardcore pvp game then?
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I have to agree with the OP, There is a reason they make different servers. The rules are clearly laid out and there is no reason to change them because of a few whiners..The answer is simple GTFO and join the correct server you noobs.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
In that I completely agree with him.
But I still don't believe removing systems taht make the game harder is "carebear".
But yes, people should abide by the system the game has in place. Permadeath, looting, whatever.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
deal if you can keep the pvp tards off pve servers talkin trash in gen chat all the time about how uber they are in pvp and whining about how sucky the pvp is on the pve server
I also agree, The knife cuts both ways.
I can see why pvpers migrate to pve servers because those servers have a higher pop, but still they should not bitch about it not being a pvp server.
What I don't understand is why a pve player would join a pvp server...and don't give me that bullshat about "my sister is on this server". Nut up and tell your sister to GTFO and go to the correct server.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I agree.
The ruleset should be the rule set.
Also I don't know of many pve players who would go to a pvp server, regardless of whose sister or girlfriend or therapist plays on it.
The problem seems to be that players are not willing to accept the rules that certain games have.
If one doesn't like a game where one flags then don't play it. That is the ruleset. If one doesn't like looting then don't play it, that is the ruleset.
If one can't stand that there is no pvp other than consensual then don't play it, that is the ruleset.
You are completely correct, knife cuts both ways.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think its easer to complain than it is to pack up and move to a new server IMO. Again not the servers rule set's problem.
As far as the pvpers on a pve server and bragging about how lame the pve server is. This tells me that these so called pvpers could not hack it on the pvp server so they put there tails between their legs and ran to the pve server. Again not the servers rule set's problem >these lame #$^%# need to put up or shut up.
The bottom line is Dev's should not change the way they have their rules set up. Its the players who need to pack there bags and move.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
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Yup, providing the game is up-front about it.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
If a games only going to have one server then it needs to offer different options for different types of players.
If not then is going to be pure fail with a very small playerbase (compare Eve to DF).
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Precisely. Well put.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
This can only work if you can't escape by logging out.
For such a system to work, you can't log out if you're "red flagged", or whatever mechanic is used. The best you can hope for is to find a place in a player-controlled city where you HOPE your guildies will protect you. But if the bounty hunters are tough enough, they can find you and kill you while you're having dinner offline. Of course, this also requires that death *matter*, or your guildies will just kill you to clear the mark. UO found one thing that worked -- have death cause permanent loss of stats that takes days of tedious grinding to recover. (And if you go out and PK some more, you risk dying again, with more stat loss, etc, etc, etc.)
Strictly enforced SCS (Single character/server) would also be required, along with some mechanic for "aiding and abetting" and "trafficiking in stolen goods". (i.e, you can't get a "blue" to heal you, group with you, or hold your loot, without him also being flagged).
Oh, I absolutely agree .. but that wasn't the guys question.
I wouldn't sign up for Darkfall and complain about being ganked, 'cos I know that if I sign up for Darkfall there's a very good chance that I will be ganked. I don't complain about being ganked in low-sec space in EVE either.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
What I really hate is developers throwing pvp and pve together in a game, although that game is based on only one of them. Why don't they simply have the courage to say "this game is pve only.Deal with it" (same goes for pvp). I would rather play a game that does one of the two right than play a game that mixes both. Though there are games that do both reasonably well, but most of the time, both pvp and pve end up being horrible because the game was supposed to carter to as many people as possible.
I also hate whiners. Those people that keep complaining. It's so annoying when the chat gets spammed by them. Not only because there is either not enough pvp or because they get ganked, they complain about everything, I swear. They didn't get the equipment they wanted, quests were too hard for them, other people stole their mobs, the game sucks, weather is bad...
Or maybe it just isn't the type of game for a particular type of person. If you buy a game that's advertised as having Type A ruleset, you are tacitly accepting that this is the ruleset you will be expected to play under. Complaining that it doesn't have Type B ruleset would be like knowingly buying a car with an automatic transmission and then bitching to the manufacturer that you can't power shift it.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Here's my deal. I agree with the OP because in his scenario pvers have a choice in the type of server they can choose so they shouldn't complain. I also agree with the people in single server games like EVE that give everyone options. I mean don't bitch about low sec if you have perfectly good high sec to carebear in.
What i disagree with are the one server players that don't give people a choice. Obviouslt bears will still try these games due to features in game. so imo its a failure on the devs part to not offer them a way to play also. So I think they should complain and try to change the game a bit.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Hardcoded rule sets died with trammel. If your making a mmo and don't give both pvpers and pvers options to play their games then its fail. I'm a pvper and dont see why pvers can't have their own piece of the pie when it comes to these games.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP