Most new players lalow people to get back shots, power attacks, let destroyers get wand shots, fight on foot vs mounted opponents, etc.
Haha, forgot
-It`s not stats and level, it`s playerskill.
Come on, do you really belive this?
Sure playerskill is important when you meet an equally leveled char, but for new players it means shit. You are just another "I have worked hard for my levels" player. It`s sad you rather have an empty Darkfall with you at the top, than a buzzing world where new players could have fun.
I have killed more than 19k utterly boring npc`s on my main char, and more than 6k on my alt. At the moment all I do is raising my secondary magery skills and getting my third two hand mastery to 75+. My char is almost complete, so I have no need to cry about others getting some slack. I would be happy to get more players to Darkfall, you just want more noobs.
I just helped power level a new guy from 30 skill to 50 mastery in two weeks (3-4 sessions). The we started dueling. At first he let me get back shots, pulled his wand within melee range, didn't kite to heal. WE practiced adn he got better.
2 weeks after he joined our guild he was solely repsonsible for taking out some fo the top guys on the server (pain train) and capturing a schooner.
In addition, I know a vet who got a recent ban for macroing. So he was helping one of our new guys power level when we got raided. While on the new toon he utterly destroyed some really developed players who raided our city.
if others can do it, tthen you can. Quit making excuses.
It is nice that you dedicated time and effort to powerlevel a friend. however, two things to note:
- not everyone has a good friend like yourself to help them;
- if you powerlevel someone for 2-3 days, those people stop being "noobs". I mean, if you play 24/7 you can become level 80 in a few days in WoW. I do not consider level 80s noobs.
Another wall of text from someone who don`t play the game.
"Why do so many people seem to think that *they* have "The Answer" that no one else has thought of and is *guaranteed* to work? Why do so many people seem to think that they know what's best for a game... better than the very people who developed it?"
Erm why do I think I know the answer?
-Because I play the game for hours every day.
-Because I talk to the players ingame.
-Because I see clans and alliance crumble and dissapear because the lack of players
-Because I read forums.
-Because my RL friends quit for that reason.
I don`t really care if the weather man on TV say it`s sunny if I`m standing outside in the rain.
And there are others who enjoy the game as it is. Regardless, you're claiming to know better than Aventurine themselves, how their game should be made which is pretty ridiculous. You're certainly not alone in that belief, though... There are arm-chair experts in *every* MMO who are *certain* that they know their game better than those who created it, and have "The Answer" to fix all its woes and have the company rolling in new sub fees. If only those clueless devs who spent years and millions of dollars developing a MMO that got you interested enough to try it in the first place would listen to you on how it *should* be!!
Maybe they should hire you on as a consultant!
You and those you know don't like the way it is. Fine. That's your prerogative. But not liking the way something is and knowing people who left the game does not mean you know how to "fix" it in a way that would be better for everyone. If that were the case, then every player, in every MMO who has a gripe with some aspect of it, would be a genius MMO developer who knows how to "fix" their given game.
Eventually it comes back to what I've always said: At some point, you (in general) need to make the decision whether or not you can continue enjoying a game as is, enough to warrant a subscription. If not, then it might be time to move on.
And if the game starts losing too many subs? Well, then it's on AV to identify the problem and find a solution to it that will hopefully correct it. Perhaps it will come from the players... perhaps it will come from some variation on an idea they were planning on developing over time even in advance of the game's launch... Again, AV knows more about their game than any player does.. not only terms of how it is *now* but in terms of exactly where they plan to take it in the future. And of course, where it goes in the future will be built off of where it stands at this moment. That is, unless they're completely winging it, which I doubt.
"they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail. "
Hah, I started 12 months ago and I have a vet char, so don`t you dare label me as a disgrunted new player. I`ve done all the pvp DF have to offer and I love it. I want more of it, but we don`t have the numbers anymore. We simply doesn`t have enough massive battle, large sieges, ship battles and frequent pvp.
Did I name you specifically? Don't believe I did. I was commenting on a common behavior I see across MMOs and, if I'm not mistaken, I even noted that I see it in other MMOs as well.
We have tried the grind method for a year now, and i doesn`t work. You don`t belive this because it doen`t fit into your "theory", I know this because i experience this every day. I want new player to be competetive faster simply because I want players to play this game with. If I wanted a solo game I wouldn`t pick DF. I don`t care if they become my enemies or friends as long as they help this game being fun and alive. I`ve played from the start, and belive me we`ve lost thousands of player.
See... I played the game for 1.5 months and decided to stop for a while 'til they've filled it out more. But to me... that grind never phased me, and no I wasn't hacking or macroing. I was playing. But then again, my approach to the game wasn't "gotta get to the end-game to PvP because that's what it's all about". To me, whatever the game provides as content is 'what it's about', and there's more to do in DF than just PvP.
Point being... to many it might be unbearable. To many others it's just fine. It comes down to how the player approaches the game.
And here's the thing... even people in games that have practically non-existent grind are still leaving, or at least complaining, by the thousands, if not more, because they still think the progress is too slow. So... it's all relative, isn't it?
At the end of the day, the answer still seems, to me, that people need to simply accept that the game isn't set up in a way that they enjoy, and perhaps decide to move on.
"Yes, I know you people "want to get to the end game so you can PvP". So did the people who started months back... and they still had to go through the process to get there. Why should you be given any easier a ride than they got?"
When I started we were all new and that was the golden days of DF. The game was fun for everybody because we were equal, and all were competitive. The downfall came when the exploiters and hardcore grinders got an upperhand in pvp and we had to join the grindrace to compete. It`s sad to say the game has had a steady decline after that. We did get some players back after AV tried to reduced the grind, but it was to little to make an impact. So to get the golden days back we need to get the new players competitive faster.
So because people hacked (which is going to happen even if they reduce the grind to near zero; again, see other MMOs for reference), the game itself should be changed...
I'll make you a bet... Right now. If AV reduces the grind/time to get to level cap and it's cut down to a rate that players like yourself or others feel is more acceptible... I guarantee you the following is going to happen:
- "thousands of people" (as in a significant number) are still going to feel it's "too slow" and complain that it needs to be faster.
- people are still going to hack and macro their way to the end-game because *any* grind to them - whether it's a year, a month or a week, is "too much" and they're going to want to circumvent it.
There will be posts, just like yours, from people claiming that the game will fail if they don't "fix the grind to end game", etc. etc.
Point being... you're never going to make "enough" people happy. And, if it got to that point where you and those you know felt it was "right", then what do you say to those thousands more who still believe it's too slow? "Too bad, deal with it, it's fine as it is?"
I know it`s hard for the pve players to know how a pvper think and some are right, you only need to grind if you want to compete.
I am a PvP'er, in as much as I will play PvP MMOs, and fight when it's appropriate (as in, I don't go out of my way looking for targets all the time), but I still don't need to "rush" to end game so long as there's enough else in the game to keep me occupied, besides PvP, along the way.
So... when you're talking about PvE versus PvP players... you really can't speak in such general terms as you do there. It's not a "black or white" situation.
GREEN:
He is not claiming he knows better then AV - he is saying how to improve things according to his experiences in DF. He is a vet who strangely sees the problem with DF - severe lack of new players and he is trying to address those issues. Unfortunately, a lot of other vets do not see it that way because fresh blood that can become vet a lot faster then those vets did will make them think it is unfair (after all, they spent 2 months grinding to get their skills masteries, why should a noob be able to do it in 1 week now?) and they also do not want to have a lot more competition (after all, being in the top 10 best PvPers beats being in the top 100, right?)
I am, no I WAS a new player to DF, and I quit for the same reason so many new players quit - you need to spend a LOT of grinding to become competetive AND because of this, we are extremely vulnerable to the few vets who would take advantage of the open FFA PvP and abuse noobs to the point where the have to either join a powerfull guild or simply quit the game because it became unplayable for them. I was not able to join the guild (I never received an answer to my request) and I was not able to enjoy the game because one day a PK just farmed me for about 40-0 minutes and I, along with 3-4 other noobs, was not able to do anything about it. It completely locked me out of my game, I lost everything I farmed and at the end I simply loged off to never come back.
Don't leave it on AV's shoulders to find and solve the problem. In 99.9% cases companies NEED your input on the current situation. They NEED to know what you, the paying customer, like or dislike about the game. So what hotjazz is doing is the right thing - he is trying to let everyone know that there is a problem and that how he thinks it can be solved. You on the other hand do not even aknowledge there is a problem. You are not helping AV at all.
RED:
Yes you named him, not by name, but by description. You described him in your text "they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail. "
YELLOW:
The problem is that you think "gotta get to the end-game to PvP because that's what it's all about" ,but in reality is people want to be competitive faster. They do not want to spend X number of weeks doing something they do not like to get to the part they do like. Sure you can shorten that number X if you get a friendly vet to powerlevel you and show you the ins and outs of the game, but if you are not so lucky, you can spend several months struggling alone or in weak clans and not able to reach that "fun" point in the game.
TEAL:
Yeah people will always complain. but here is the thing, if DF's current pop is 10-20K players and has not increased by a double digit percentage and people complain it is "very grindy" and you compare that to a state of the game where it has 100+K players with a steady increase of pop of 15% per year and still people complaining it is "very grindy": which one is more alarming? I don't think AV would worry much if they had 100K pop with a steady increase of players, I dont think they would pay much attention to the "too much grind" shouts. But that is not the case here.
I know it`s hard for the pve players to know how a pvper think and some are right, you only need to grind if you want to compete.
I am a PvP'er, in as much as I will play PvP MMOs, and fight when it's appropriate (as in, I don't go out of my way looking for targets all the time), but I still don't need to "rush" to end game so long as there's enough else in the game to keep me occupied, besides PvP, along the way.
So... when you're talking about PvE versus PvP players... you really can't speak in such general terms as you do there. It's not a "black or white" situation.
I thnk what he described there was just his playstyle. It seems that his playstyle is very close to mine - I also like to experience various things and I never feel the need to "rush" to the top end to be "the best" or in "top 10".
To summarize this all in as few sentences as possible so that people do not get distracted by minor issues:
DF has low and/or declining population. Something needs to be done about it. If you do not agree with the first sentence, then there is not much we can discuss about here until AV releases server numbers to prove or disprove that statement. I do not think AV will ever release that information for obvious reasons.
Obviously, not many posters here ever played DAOC back in the day. Remember what TOA expansion did to that wonderful game? Forced PvEing to stay competitve in pvp. It resulted a large exodus from the game because pvpers were not willing to spend time doing that. Personally, if i have to spend more than 30- 60 days of playing 10-16 hours a day of Farming/macroing/Afk leveling to be competitive I have to say : fuk that. I'll just go back to counterstrike where i can pvp as soon as i load the game up.
I actually feel sorry for new people attempting to play this game from scratch.
yep the main problem for darkfall is that people join the game for pvp and then have to wait months before they can even start pvping. Sure they can start sooner but itll be hard to have a chance, except maybe in a clan with a large group, against vet players.
Now im used to it and i do like working towards that because im used to it from playing daoc. Only difference is that daoc had a safe world with just pve, noone would gank you. Also they had pretty good, i think anyway but im an mmorpg vet, pve setup where you'd group alot etc and have fun and fun dungeons and whatever else. Now darkfall has fun pve, i still enjoy it, but its really not as contentfull as daoc was for instance. Daoc had a totally seperate pve and pvp world and both had alot of content.
So all thats left to do in darkfall, even though you might like the pve side of darkfall, is grind grind grind and be very patient. Many dont have that patience, specially not when nowadays there's plenty games where you can pvp right from the start. Maybe not as cool as darkfalls pvp but nonetheless you can jump right into the action. Even daoc has battlegrounds which means after a few days you can have fun with your char already and do some exiting pvp. Darkfall requires you to first pve grind for months before you can even start the pvp component of the game which is based on clan wars, sieges etc.
yep the main problem for darkfall is that people join the game for pvp and then have to wait months before they can even start pvping. Sure they can start sooner but itll be hard to have a chance, except maybe in a clan with a large group, against vet players.
Yes i think this is the main point everyone tries to make when they talk about the grind and how bad it is. However, veterans who are probably defensive of the grind that they have gone through already, automatically think that someone claiming the grind should be shorter wants to be endgame immediately. I dont think anyone wants to be endgame right away, we just want to be able to PvP. Less grind = PvP sooner and thats all anyone wants. Nobody buys darkfall because they want to kill 20,000 mobs.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
vets arent defensive abo9ut the grind, thye siimply understand the game mechanics.
I see poeple whp have played for months and doo not have mastery. On the flip side I know guys who log in for a few hours here and there and get mastery in a couple fo weekends.
It all boils down to understandign the game. If you don't understand the game it will take you quite some time. If you do understand the game you can level quite quickly.
vets arent defensive abo9ut the grind, thye siimply understand the game mechanics.
I see poeple whp have played for months and doo not have mastery. On the flip side I know guys who log in for a few hours here and there and get mastery in a couple fo weekends.
It all boils down to understandign the game. If you don't understand the game it will take you quite some time. If you do understand the game you can level quite quickly.
I would disagree with that comment.
There are quite a few "vets" on the official boards whose comments come across as pretty darn defensive. Heck, some come across as down right hostile when mentioning the grind.
To be fair though, there are also a fair number of "vets" who are calling for the grind to be relaxed... a lot! So, as with all things related to DarkFall there is a split community on which direction the Devs should take the game.
Reading the official boards, the talk of what to do about the grind is probably the number 1 discussion point. It's pretty evenly distributed, but in my opinion it seems the numbers slant a bit in favor of those who are wanting the grind to be relaxed.
Granted, that could be because forums naturally tilt towards those who are wanting change; as opposed to those wanting to stay with the status quo. Be that as it may, I don't think many would argue with the point that the grind is, and has been; a hot topic for quite some time on the official forums.
Av's problem is that they do not moderate thierboards. It is a huge troll-fest. In any other company most of the shit shit there would be deleted and the posters banned.
There are far more trolls I see on the boards than "defensive vets." There isn't a "hue discussion" about grind on the forums thre are about 5 guys who keep making the same thread over and over. Most of the newer posters tend to indicate that thigns are no whre near as bad as the trolls indicate.
You see the same thing on the MO forums as well. IN all honesty the game looks pretty pretty horrendous (from an implementation standpoint) but most of the repeat posts by people trying to convince evryone the game is bad are purely un-needed and are certainly not constructive in any way.
The reality about any game is that if it isnt fun don't play it. Don't try to convinve ohters it isn't fun let them try it for themselves.
Av's problem is that they do not moderate thierboards. It is a huge troll-fest. In any other company most of the shit shit there would be deleted and the posters banned.
There are far more trolls I see on the boards than "defensive vets." There isn't a "hue discussion" about grind on the forums thre are about 5 guys who keep making the same thread over and over. Most of the newer posters tend to indicate that thigns are no whre near as bad as the trolls indicate.
You see the same thing on the MO forums as well. IN all honesty the game looks pretty pretty horrendous (from an implementation standpoint) but most of the repeat posts by people trying to convince evryone the game is bad are purely un-needed and are certainly not constructive in any way.
The reality about any game is that if it isnt fun don't play it. Don't try to convinve ohters it isn't fun let them try it for themselves.
I disagree.
Forumfall is heavily moderated in the areas that they decide to moderate. Yeah, I know, circular logic at it's best.
If you think Forumfall is below average in moderation... you must be fairly new to their boards. There is a reason why mmorpg.com has as large a following as they do in the DarkFall section.
As for a few "trolls" being behind grind discussion... yeah, you must be new to visiting the forums.
I'm sure those same few "trolls" are the ones that pump up the polls on the subject of grinding as well.
Some examples of polls showing a bit more than "5 trolls"
Hmm, is it a matter of "moderation" or censorship? Of course a game company wouldn't want their forums to be littered with tons of posts about how horrible the game is, so they normally get deleted. Maybe AV leaves the grind posts on the forums because they know it is the truth?
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
Most Unrestricted PvP games are self destructive. You always have higher levels/skills, ganking and greiving, Sure the hardcore pvp crowd does not mind this but the average gamer does. That just serves to run off players in masses. In DF case its not really meant for the average gamer nor was it advertised as such. I would think that anyone starting DF knows what there getting into.
The one that wasn't (Planetside c2004-2007) barely had a level system. When you "leveled up", you got more cert points to spend on your qualifications. Having a qualification let you draw the associated gear from an equipment terminal. And that was it.
So once a newbie got just a few cert points (basically by the end of 2-4 hours of play), they could be the equal of any veteran in any given role by certing the same armor/weapon/vehicle (for their respective faction, that is). So that system didn't have any way for veterans to grief someone by virtue of having played longer, it was all knowledge of your gear vs their gear, and your skill in using it.
Hmm, is it a matter of "moderation" or censorship? Of course a game company wouldn't want their forums to be littered with tons of posts about how horrible the game is, so they normally get deleted. Maybe AV leaves the grind posts on the forums because they know it is the truth?
Good point.
Either way, for someone to say the following about ForumFall:
"Av's problem is that they do not moderate thierboards."
Is either being intentionally dishonest, or is very new to visiting ForumFall.
Av's problem is that they do not moderate thierboards. It is a huge troll-fest. In any other company most of the shit shit there would be deleted and the posters banned.
There are far more trolls I see on the boards than "defensive vets." There isn't a "hue discussion" about grind on the forums thre are about 5 guys who keep making the same thread over and over. Most of the newer posters tend to indicate that thigns are no whre near as bad as the trolls indicate.
You see the same thing on the MO forums as well. IN all honesty the game looks pretty pretty horrendous (from an implementation standpoint) but most of the repeat posts by people trying to convince evryone the game is bad are purely un-needed and are certainly not constructive in any way.
The reality about any game is that if it isnt fun don't play it. Don't try to convinve ohters it isn't fun let them try it for themselves.
Where does it say that DF is set in stone and it will never change? In fact, DF changed and continues to change a LOT. Where do changes come from? From people like us that discuss various issues and suggest ways to improve the game. Noone is trying to convince about NOT trying the game. We are trying to tell all that are intested in DF about the current situation and what can be done to make DF a better game. Who knows, maybe AV are reading these forums and may actually do something about it if enough people agree on something.
Comments
+1
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
It is nice that you dedicated time and effort to powerlevel a friend. however, two things to note:
- not everyone has a good friend like yourself to help them;
- if you powerlevel someone for 2-3 days, those people stop being "noobs". I mean, if you play 24/7 you can become level 80 in a few days in WoW. I do not consider level 80s noobs.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
GREEN:
He is not claiming he knows better then AV - he is saying how to improve things according to his experiences in DF. He is a vet who strangely sees the problem with DF - severe lack of new players and he is trying to address those issues. Unfortunately, a lot of other vets do not see it that way because fresh blood that can become vet a lot faster then those vets did will make them think it is unfair (after all, they spent 2 months grinding to get their skills masteries, why should a noob be able to do it in 1 week now?) and they also do not want to have a lot more competition (after all, being in the top 10 best PvPers beats being in the top 100, right?)
I am, no I WAS a new player to DF, and I quit for the same reason so many new players quit - you need to spend a LOT of grinding to become competetive AND because of this, we are extremely vulnerable to the few vets who would take advantage of the open FFA PvP and abuse noobs to the point where the have to either join a powerfull guild or simply quit the game because it became unplayable for them. I was not able to join the guild (I never received an answer to my request) and I was not able to enjoy the game because one day a PK just farmed me for about 40-0 minutes and I, along with 3-4 other noobs, was not able to do anything about it. It completely locked me out of my game, I lost everything I farmed and at the end I simply loged off to never come back.
Don't leave it on AV's shoulders to find and solve the problem. In 99.9% cases companies NEED your input on the current situation. They NEED to know what you, the paying customer, like or dislike about the game. So what hotjazz is doing is the right thing - he is trying to let everyone know that there is a problem and that how he thinks it can be solved. You on the other hand do not even aknowledge there is a problem. You are not helping AV at all.
RED:
Yes you named him, not by name, but by description. You described him in your text "they keep it at arm's length until about 6-12 months after its launch before they decide to finally take the plunge. Immediately upon taking the plunge, they go on this routine of it being unfair that they can't catch up to the people who started 6-12 months before them and so the game should be changed to make it faster/easier for them to do so... and if the devs don't change the game, then they're going to lose thousands of people and the game will fail. "
YELLOW:
The problem is that you think "gotta get to the end-game to PvP because that's what it's all about" ,but in reality is people want to be competitive faster. They do not want to spend X number of weeks doing something they do not like to get to the part they do like. Sure you can shorten that number X if you get a friendly vet to powerlevel you and show you the ins and outs of the game, but if you are not so lucky, you can spend several months struggling alone or in weak clans and not able to reach that "fun" point in the game.
TEAL:
Yeah people will always complain. but here is the thing, if DF's current pop is 10-20K players and has not increased by a double digit percentage and people complain it is "very grindy" and you compare that to a state of the game where it has 100+K players with a steady increase of pop of 15% per year and still people complaining it is "very grindy": which one is more alarming? I don't think AV would worry much if they had 100K pop with a steady increase of players, I dont think they would pay much attention to the "too much grind" shouts. But that is not the case here.
I know it`s hard for the pve players to know how a pvper think and some are right, you only need to grind if you want to compete.
I am a PvP'er, in as much as I will play PvP MMOs, and fight when it's appropriate (as in, I don't go out of my way looking for targets all the time), but I still don't need to "rush" to end game so long as there's enough else in the game to keep me occupied, besides PvP, along the way.
So... when you're talking about PvE versus PvP players... you really can't speak in such general terms as you do there. It's not a "black or white" situation.
I thnk what he described there was just his playstyle. It seems that his playstyle is very close to mine - I also like to experience various things and I never feel the need to "rush" to the top end to be "the best" or in "top 10".
To summarize this all in as few sentences as possible so that people do not get distracted by minor issues:
DF has low and/or declining population. Something needs to be done about it. If you do not agree with the first sentence, then there is not much we can discuss about here until AV releases server numbers to prove or disprove that statement. I do not think AV will ever release that information for obvious reasons.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Obviously, not many posters here ever played DAOC back in the day. Remember what TOA expansion did to that wonderful game? Forced PvEing to stay competitve in pvp. It resulted a large exodus from the game because pvpers were not willing to spend time doing that. Personally, if i have to spend more than 30- 60 days of playing 10-16 hours a day of Farming/macroing/Afk leveling to be competitive I have to say : fuk that. I'll just go back to counterstrike where i can pvp as soon as i load the game up.
I actually feel sorry for new people attempting to play this game from scratch.
yep the main problem for darkfall is that people join the game for pvp and then have to wait months before they can even start pvping. Sure they can start sooner but itll be hard to have a chance, except maybe in a clan with a large group, against vet players.
Now im used to it and i do like working towards that because im used to it from playing daoc. Only difference is that daoc had a safe world with just pve, noone would gank you. Also they had pretty good, i think anyway but im an mmorpg vet, pve setup where you'd group alot etc and have fun and fun dungeons and whatever else. Now darkfall has fun pve, i still enjoy it, but its really not as contentfull as daoc was for instance. Daoc had a totally seperate pve and pvp world and both had alot of content.
So all thats left to do in darkfall, even though you might like the pve side of darkfall, is grind grind grind and be very patient. Many dont have that patience, specially not when nowadays there's plenty games where you can pvp right from the start. Maybe not as cool as darkfalls pvp but nonetheless you can jump right into the action. Even daoc has battlegrounds which means after a few days you can have fun with your char already and do some exiting pvp. Darkfall requires you to first pve grind for months before you can even start the pvp component of the game which is based on clan wars, sieges etc.
Yes i think this is the main point everyone tries to make when they talk about the grind and how bad it is. However, veterans who are probably defensive of the grind that they have gone through already, automatically think that someone claiming the grind should be shorter wants to be endgame immediately. I dont think anyone wants to be endgame right away, we just want to be able to PvP. Less grind = PvP sooner and thats all anyone wants. Nobody buys darkfall because they want to kill 20,000 mobs.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
vets arent defensive abo9ut the grind, thye siimply understand the game mechanics.
I see poeple whp have played for months and doo not have mastery. On the flip side I know guys who log in for a few hours here and there and get mastery in a couple fo weekends.
It all boils down to understandign the game. If you don't understand the game it will take you quite some time. If you do understand the game you can level quite quickly.
I would disagree with that comment.
There are quite a few "vets" on the official boards whose comments come across as pretty darn defensive. Heck, some come across as down right hostile when mentioning the grind.
To be fair though, there are also a fair number of "vets" who are calling for the grind to be relaxed... a lot! So, as with all things related to DarkFall there is a split community on which direction the Devs should take the game.
Reading the official boards, the talk of what to do about the grind is probably the number 1 discussion point. It's pretty evenly distributed, but in my opinion it seems the numbers slant a bit in favor of those who are wanting the grind to be relaxed.
Granted, that could be because forums naturally tilt towards those who are wanting change; as opposed to those wanting to stay with the status quo. Be that as it may, I don't think many would argue with the point that the grind is, and has been; a hot topic for quite some time on the official forums.
Av's problem is that they do not moderate thierboards. It is a huge troll-fest. In any other company most of the shit shit there would be deleted and the posters banned.
There are far more trolls I see on the boards than "defensive vets." There isn't a "hue discussion" about grind on the forums thre are about 5 guys who keep making the same thread over and over. Most of the newer posters tend to indicate that thigns are no whre near as bad as the trolls indicate.
You see the same thing on the MO forums as well. IN all honesty the game looks pretty pretty horrendous (from an implementation standpoint) but most of the repeat posts by people trying to convince evryone the game is bad are purely un-needed and are certainly not constructive in any way.
The reality about any game is that if it isnt fun don't play it. Don't try to convinve ohters it isn't fun let them try it for themselves.
I disagree.
Forumfall is heavily moderated in the areas that they decide to moderate. Yeah, I know, circular logic at it's best.
This thread here is a perfect example: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/274906/AFK-swimming-needs-to-be-fixed-posted-on-official-got-locked.html
If you think Forumfall is below average in moderation... you must be fairly new to their boards. There is a reason why mmorpg.com has as large a following as they do in the DarkFall section.
As for a few "trolls" being behind grind discussion... yeah, you must be new to visiting the forums.
I'm sure those same few "trolls" are the ones that pump up the polls on the subject of grinding as well.
Some examples of polls showing a bit more than "5 trolls"
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=241859
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=238569
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=235270
Hmm, is it a matter of "moderation" or censorship? Of course a game company wouldn't want their forums to be littered with tons of posts about how horrible the game is, so they normally get deleted. Maybe AV leaves the grind posts on the forums because they know it is the truth?
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
The one that wasn't (Planetside c2004-2007) barely had a level system. When you "leveled up", you got more cert points to spend on your qualifications. Having a qualification let you draw the associated gear from an equipment terminal. And that was it.
So once a newbie got just a few cert points (basically by the end of 2-4 hours of play), they could be the equal of any veteran in any given role by certing the same armor/weapon/vehicle (for their respective faction, that is). So that system didn't have any way for veterans to grief someone by virtue of having played longer, it was all knowledge of your gear vs their gear, and your skill in using it.
Good point.
Either way, for someone to say the following about ForumFall:
"Av's problem is that they do not moderate thierboards."
Is either being intentionally dishonest, or is very new to visiting ForumFall.
Where does it say that DF is set in stone and it will never change? In fact, DF changed and continues to change a LOT. Where do changes come from? From people like us that discuss various issues and suggest ways to improve the game. Noone is trying to convince about NOT trying the game. We are trying to tell all that are intested in DF about the current situation and what can be done to make DF a better game. Who knows, maybe AV are reading these forums and may actually do something about it if enough people agree on something.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.