Been playing about 10 years now so here is my list.
1. Shadowbane- I am not even a very good PvP player and I loved this game, there was no game that had a sense of suspense and forboding as shadowbane, You would meet at the Tree of Life and then your group would head out to farm and perhaps attack another group, wedll you were traveling some of your mates might be picked off by hidden rouges. great fun and tension.
2. Guild wars- when if first came out there were huge amounts of people playing and the PvP action was smooth and precise with verylittle lag, this was befor the cheats and complications set in , the pve was good because there were so many playing.
3. Vanguard- Very good game which suffers from performance issues and of course pop issues, only game with diplomacy mini game in it, huge world, , under ulitilized.
4 city of heroes- Loved this game when it first came out, even pick up groups were fantastic in this game , great smooth combat and a good community, repetitive missions , but man you could fly!
5 STO- what can i say so far i am enjoying it, playing the game in a casual way makes for fun ply, really enjoy the splace combat, even the ground combat while clunky is fun, darn no crafting while i guess i wont be bored then.
6 wow, aoc, swg, eq2, tabula, aa, lotro, ok games just never kept my interest for long
7. The realm-my first game with about a million levels, side scrolling old fashion fun
fallen earth, eve , ryzom, darkfall, liniage, potbs, these games I tried and hated either becvause of the bordom factor, to much crafting, i hate outer space games with exception of sto, or poorly made
I knew when I was asked to write a list of MY OWN top favorite P2P games that we'd be inciting a riot. I have different tastes than most, and some would certainly simply say I have bad taste. But again, that's all opinion. But these are my own favorite P2P games right now. As stated right at the top of the article, this list will change over time no doubt.
But for those who are confused, read the title again... it's "Bill's Top 10 P2P MMOs". If they don't match yours, that's totally fine. Give us your 10 and why they are that way for you, as I've done.
No one in a list that is based on opinion is right or wrong. Try to be objective and realize that this list is just me stating my favorite games and trying to encapsulate in 1-2 paragraphs why they're on there.
And yes, Auto Assault made my list. If it was still running there's a good chance it would be higher. I loved that game and carry no shame in announcing so! *shakes fist at NCsoft*
Here's the thing about that, people want to know the article writing and even more importantly, the reviews, coming from the site are valid. When you post a list like this, most of the community will now not be able to take any articles you write about MMOs respectfully.
Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion (and we all are very clear of that when we get yelled at by a certain main article writer everytime we point out flaws in his writings), but on a site where essentially your income is from attracting gamers to come to your site and read your insights, your opinions are best to relate to your main audience. There's a reason there are different network stations on TV, they all have a different core audience and make program directed at that audience. It's not to say that programming one network airs is wrong and another is right, but they are doing right by their own audiences.
To post a list like this you are basically going against this sites core audience, which tends to be more hard core and highly opinionated MMO gamers. They want to see a list that shows the quality games that have been created, not the terrible games that the majority of your readers make hate posts about on a daily basis.
So yes, have your own opinions. But two things go along with that, don't tell us to not ridicule/destroy your post in our posts. And second, consider your audience on your posts. It would seem there are a lot of articles being posted up lately that get a lot of thrashing in the responses. I don't know if that's because you found that the site visits/article reading numbers go up when they cause controversy (which I would wager is the main reason). Or because you guys have lost touch with your own site users.
Yes we all know it says "Bill's Top Ten P2P MMOs" but it doesn't make people any happier then if it just said "Top Ten P2P MMOs", both titles mean they come from someone that works for the site and could review games/write articles about how games play.
So...basically you're telling the guy to either:
A) Lie
or
Write down the numbers 1 through 10 and beside each number write "Fill in your approved game here".
My problem is instead people trying to tell the guy how to do his job but then get their feelings hurt when someone tells them how to read an article. If you dish it, learn to take it. The article was meant to get the readers to write out their own lists. Apparently the reading comphrension of this site's members is the worst ever. No, instead they want to bash on this guy because they aren't bright enough to come up with their own lists.
If anything I'd much rather see Bill's true thoughts on the games he likes such that when he does review a future game I'm interested in I know where he's coming from and how much to value his opinion. Afterall with such articles as these I get a better sense of his tastes for certain gameplay.
If they want a list that shows "quality games" as far as they are concerned then they should stop acting like a bunch of Pavlovian lemmings and write that list in their own responses as opposed to depending on Bill and other's lists to ring and start that salivating approval.
But, I guess it goes to show that the majority of gamers do indeed like to be led by the hand and told what to do, when to do and how to do it...in their gaming and in real life. *shrug*
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Seeing as WoW has roughly 75% of the market then yeah, that is obvious that we are in minority. But the majority is not always right about what is high quality and not.
McDonalds I bet has a much larger proportion of people going out to eat than a gourmet restaurant or a healthy restaurant. That does not mean McDonalds food taste better nor is more healthy for you. Just that it caters to more people.
Great remark. And very accurate and true. Perhaps I found a new signature for the meantime
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
You've added significantly to the overall conversation.
Couldn't think of much more to say. Didn't know where to start. If I were to make a 10 most overhyped /non fun games, this would almost exactly be what i came up with.
What's funny is I'm not actually playing WoW at the moment, but I just can't get passed that it is still the most solid, stable, polished, well-executed game on the market
About that Solid? Stable? Polished?
Solid- as being the first to the table and having real funding did a lot. Also had catchey eye graphics, tons of Advertising, and benefits for their current subscribers to get friends to play. (Solid as in Strategy) they knew how to get people.
I agree, funding is very important in creating a solid game.
Stable- I disagree their, how long did you play, the game looses the stable feeling once you get max. The lag is unbearable, and crashes happen frequent. (they can't do 50vs 50 without 10second lag while AIKA can do 500vs500 with 3sec lag) And thats a free MMO, shame!
That's too bad, I do have a very nice rig, so I didn't realize this was an issue for most.
Polished- as if, the bugs the glitches, the expoits. The unbalance.. plz
Well, I suppose I mean relative to other triple a titles. When you look at the rest of my list, I think you can see that WoW certainly is better than the others in the list. I'd be interested in which mmo you believe beats WoW in this catagory, I suspect we just are both looking at different definitions of 'polish'.
Why it was Well executed was being made easier for more audiences then just tye typical gamer crowd, as well as making it easier and faster leveling over all. Not to mention bliz had its loyal fans to start it off, with Diablo(1/2/EXP's)/SC/WC(1/2/3/EXP's). They were already known and established then most the other companies with their other successes and MMO's were not really that big at the time, Gaming wasn't that big at the time either. Also bliz's staff for WC3 had a really cool sense of humor, i loved it; made me respect the dev's for the game.
I think we just agreed again.
Dont Get me Wrong. I don't hate WoW, in fact i might play Cata for the hell of it. Most people on WoW have someone their playing with, which keeps them their. Or they bored at home and have in game friends and they got addicted. WoW i would like to say started like the IPOD and apple, lots of advertising and good marketing techniques, the false retarded (clueless) comercials PC vs Mac tho, pissed me off. Hey Technically PC=Personal Computer, and ur a PC. Also MAC is custom linux. Nothing special about u, and customizable my arse--*censored for any reading kidies*. HEH(off topic)
actually WOW is the only themepark game dominating the market and again tell you to look up at my point above to see why. WAR failed, AOC Failed, SWG NGE FAILED, EQ2 after wowification FAILED, STO failed, CO Failed AION in the western market FAILED. So really the only 3 games that are doing decently (that are p2p) are WoW, EVE and even fallen earth is pretty decent.
hopefully that will tell developers MMO players don't want themepark games
its because no AAA company has tried to make a sandbox game, all sandbox games are coming from indie companies who don't have the manpower of say Blizzard, SOE, Bioware, Mythic and what not. most of those Companies are too busy trying to get a piece of WoWs shitty playerbase to realize there is an untapped (by AAA companies) market out there.
The two italicized parts show a contradiction. If WoW is the only themepark dominating the market, than logically the other market dominators are sandbox's. So what sandbox's are you talking about? EVE is the only sandbox which might even enter the top ten. And it may be the only non 'aaa' title (as you put it) in the top ten - what are you rambling about?
I don't have a top ten, personally have never played ten that was good (held my attention more than 3 months)
My top five reverse order
5. WOW
I never saw what everyone else saw. but I did appreciate how well it was done. The spit and shine outstanding. As the most exspensive MMORPG ever 80Million money well spent
4. Warhammer
If you could just stay level 19 forever.
3. EQ2
Classes great, gear Dull Dull Dull
2. Aion
My current game and I know its slow incomplete (new) and lacking but its just me. Grind and all. Its fun and DAMN i look good
1. EeverQuest
The first game to make a class truly evil (necromancer) and bring forth MUDS from peoples imagination. it truly is the light at the end of the tunnel. It was the first one made for the masses and for the beginning it was very well done.
actually WOW is the only themepark game dominating the market and again tell you to look up at my point above to see why. WAR failed, AOC Failed, SWG NGE FAILED, EQ2 after wowification FAILED, STO failed, CO Failed AION in the western market FAILED. So really the only 3 games that are doing decently (that are p2p) are WoW, EVE and even fallen earth is pretty decent.
hopefully that will tell developers MMO players don't want themepark games
its because no AAA company has tried to make a sandbox game, all sandbox games are coming from indie companies who don't have the manpower of say Blizzard, SOE, Bioware, Mythic and what not. most of those Companies are too busy trying to get a piece of WoWs shitty playerbase to realize there is an untapped (by AAA companies) market out there.
The two italicized parts show a contradiction. If WoW is the only themepark dominating the market, than logically the other market dominators are sandbox's. So what sandbox's are you talking about? EVE is the only sandbox which might even enter the top ten. And it may be the only non 'aaa' title (as you put it) in the top ten - what are you rambling about?
Actually AION has the same number of servers as when it started so I don't know how you can say it failed and since we are their smallest market (just pocket change) they are crying all the way to the bank
I don't even like the gameplay in EVE Online and I still have a hard time justifying how EVE is possibly missing from this list. I mean, it's EVE. An entire Corporation got robbed and infiltrated in the span of 1 year, and the people who did it stole in excess of $10,000 worth of in-game stuff (assuming one were to buy the in-game stuff using real world currency).
How is a game where that can even potentially happen and be legal not #1? WoW is fine, it deserves to be up there but I doubt over EVE. Get Champions Online off because that game is a piece of crap with no content.
Cryptic only knows how to make "MMOs" that are filled with 100s of 15-20 player instances of like, five zones. Having to choose to go to "Superhero Place #125" really takes any possible immersion out instantaneously.
I don't even like the gameplay in EVE Online and I still have a hard time justifying how EVE is possibly missing from this list. I mean, it's EVE. An entire Corporation got robbed and infiltrated in the span of 1 year, and the people who did it stole in excess of $10,000 worth of in-game stuff (assuming one were to buy the in-game stuff using real world currency).
How is a game where that can even potentially happen and be legal not #1? WoW is fine, it deserves to be up there but I doubt over EVE. Get Champions Online off because that game is a piece of crap with no content.
Cryptic only knows how to make "MMOs" that are filled with 100s of 15-20 player instances of like, five zones. Having to choose to go to "Superhero Place #125" really takes any possible immersion out instantaneously.
I was wondering this myself. I don't play eve and would still give it the #1 spot
I look for depth and immersion in a MMO, I am generally a fan of the more sandbox genre..
10. Ryzom
9. Dark Age of Camelot
8. Asheron's Call
7. Anarchy Online
6. Star Wars Galaxies - Pre-Jedi
5. Global Agenda
4. Fallen Earth
3. Eve Online
2. Ultima Online
1. Darkfall Online
I don't believe in putting games on the list that people can no longer play.... I would list Dungeons & Dragons Online, but the game is currently free..
As far as PVP goes.. Darkfall is easily the best if you want something hardcorew, new and exciting, the combat alone has not been experienced in a MMORPG before, it is a very engaging and immersive game with a beautiful world.. It all depends on your ninche though.. If you enjoy casual PvP, then play Warhammer or WoW, it seems the game that are most "casual" with their PvP, are the best ones for PvP, which makes no sense..
Fallen Earth was almost a dealbreaker for me, similar to Darkfall in a lot of ways in a different setting, without a hardcore PVP aspect, there is PVP zones however.. I really enjoy the crafting in Fallen Earth, and the skill system is unique..
Champions Online? Age of Conan? Seriously? Mr. Murphy seems to have a low standard for mmos and a high tolerance for subpar game mechanics and poor customer service. CO is a snorefest and AoC's so-called mature content was nerfed beyond recognition within the first month of launch. I only subscribed to CO to get Star Trek Online early beta access. I quit AoC after three months when Funcom pretty much snubbed the player community and turned their attention to Secret World instead. If this were my list EVE Online would be somewhere in the top three or five.
And dude, the phrase "Without further adieu" you keep regurgitating in your articles is wrong. The word you're looking for is 'ado'... without further ado. 'Adieu' is French for farewell.
1. Dark Age of Camelot - Even to this day, NO mmo comes even close to the PvP thrills this game offers.
2. Final Fantasy 11 - I play so many hours of this game without switching to another it has to be good!
3. Age of Conan - I have the majority of the original comic books, of course this game was a perfect fit, especially after all the fixes.
4. World of Warcraft - Probably the 3rd most "hours played" game on my list.
5. Neverwinter Nights - Are we only counting "still-running" mmos? If we aren't, I still would have this on my list. My first mmorpg way back in the early '90s before any of these other.
6. Ultima Online - Sandbox ftw...too bad the 8 year old griefers had to ruin it.
7. Lord of the Rings - I was disappointed with this game, but it was fun for the first 50 levels.
8. Eve Online - I never got really far into this game, but it's fun being a miner, until some Warship comes and blows you up.
9. City of Heroes- I loved this game, I just didn't like the enhancement system it used.
10. Warhammer Online - This game was promised to be so much, and probably would've been, if they'd have followed the proven method of having more than good vs evil.
#5 makes me feel old...can't believe it's been almost 19 years of playing mmos lol
This list is authors personal opinion so it can't be wrong, weird or bad. He gave some insights on why he chose the 10 mmo's. Despite the famous and honorable UltimaOnline theres no mmo I'd agree with.
My list:
1. Everquest - no game will ever game close to this world as said as it is - bring us a new "evercrack" need!
2. Ultima Online - how dare you fuckers introduced Trammel and destroyed it
3. Vanguard - under Sigil/M$
4. Aion - great game just too much W..fanboys, not enough endgame PvE content
5. Darkfall Online - my "new" love its EvE in a fantasy world so both could flip flop. Just I'm missing the big raidbosses
6. EvE Online - unbelievable Sandbox, great pvp and tons of reedom tough I don't like the scifi that much
7. Dark Age of Camelot - never played it but lots of palls did so hands down a great pvp game
8. Meridian 59 - the godfather of all MMORPGS
9. World of Warcraft - at least it had some great exEverquestdevs till the last expansion and a nice open world
10. Everquest 2 - hard to list a game that should have become the Everquest successor and failed miserably
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
It's a perfect list. It's goal was to have 10 titles in it, and it achieved that. If I were populating the same list, I'd choose mostly the same titles. Well done OP. Though next time, make a top 100 list, so Eve can get on it.
I knew when I was asked to write a list of MY OWN top favorite P2P games that we'd be inciting a riot. I have different tastes than most, and some would certainly simply say I have bad taste. But again, that's all opinion. But these are my own favorite P2P games right now. As stated right at the top of the article, this list will change over time no doubt.
But for those who are confused, read the title again... it's "Bill's Top 10 P2P MMOs". If they don't match yours, that's totally fine. Give us your 10 and why they are that way for you, as I've done.
No one in a list that is based on opinion is right or wrong. Try to be objective and realize that this list is just me stating my favorite games and trying to encapsulate in 1-2 paragraphs why they're on there.
And yes, Auto Assault made my list. If it was still running there's a good chance it would be higher. I loved that game and carry no shame in announcing so! *shakes fist at NCsoft*
Here's the thing about that, people want to know the article writing and even more importantly, the reviews, coming from the site are valid. When you post a list like this, most of the community will now not be able to take any articles you write about MMOs respectfully.
Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion (and we all are very clear of that when we get yelled at by a certain main article writer everytime we point out flaws in his writings), but on a site where essentially your income is from attracting gamers to come to your site and read your insights, your opinions are best to relate to your main audience. There's a reason there are different network stations on TV, they all have a different core audience and make program directed at that audience. It's not to say that programming one network airs is wrong and another is right, but they are doing right by their own audiences.
To post a list like this you are basically going against this sites core audience, which tends to be more hard core and highly opinionated MMO gamers. They want to see a list that shows the quality games that have been created, not the terrible games that the majority of your readers make hate posts about on a daily basis.
So yes, have your own opinions. But two things go along with that, don't tell us to not ridicule/destroy your post in our posts. And second, consider your audience on your posts. It would seem there are a lot of articles being posted up lately that get a lot of thrashing in the responses. I don't know if that's because you found that the site visits/article reading numbers go up when they cause controversy (which I would wager is the main reason). Or because you guys have lost touch with your own site users.
Yes we all know it says "Bill's Top Ten P2P MMOs" but it doesn't make people any happier then if it just said "Top Ten P2P MMOs", both titles mean they come from someone that works for the site and could review games/write articles about how games play.
So...basically you're telling the guy to either:
A) Lie
or
Write down the numbers 1 through 10 and beside each number write "Fill in your approved game here".
My problem is instead people trying to tell the guy how to do his job but then get their feelings hurt when someone tells them how to read an article. If you dish it, learn to take it. The article was meant to get the readers to write out their own lists. Apparently the reading comphrension of this site's members is the worst ever. No, instead they want to bash on this guy because they aren't bright enough to come up with their own lists.
If anything I'd much rather see Bill's true thoughts on the games he likes such that when he does review a future game I'm interested in I know where he's coming from and how much to value his opinion. Afterall with such articles as these I get a better sense of his tastes for certain gameplay.
If they want a list that shows "quality games" as far as they are concerned then they should stop acting like a bunch of Pavlovian lemmings and write that list in their own responses as opposed to depending on Bill and other's lists to ring and start that salivating approval.
But, I guess it goes to show that the majority of gamers do indeed like to be led by the hand and told what to do, when to do and how to do it...in their gaming and in real life. *shrug*
So you basically complained about people reading something and complaining about it. And then you read something and complained about it?
So you basically complained that instead of coming up with opinions that people were saying the list sucked. And then you complained about an opinion.
Basically you're a hypocrit who wants everyone to say nice things about every article for the sake of saying nice things. Way to completely make your own remarks irelevant while you wrote them.
I was giving some insight into why people hated the list, and I don't think it is far off. To sum it up for you since you had a hard time reading and understanding what was being said. This site's market is the more hardcore/more serious MMO gamer, those that have played a lot of games and many of which have been around since the beginning of graphical MMOs.
When those people read a review of a game they aren't playing or don't yet have access to, they want to know the person reviewing it shares their ideas. If the person writing the review has different opinions then most of the readers of the site, the review is completely useless. So when those readers see a top ten list like this, that is soooooo different from the majority of the sites readers they get annoyed. And no they don't want him to lie, they want people who share their ideas to work on the articles.
Although I'm sure you still won't bother to actually read, you'll just do exactly what you say you hate other people doing.
I knew when I was asked to write a list of MY OWN top favorite P2P games that we'd be inciting a riot. I have different tastes than most, and some would certainly simply say I have bad taste. But again, that's all opinion. But these are my own favorite P2P games right now. As stated right at the top of the article, this list will change over time no doubt.
But for those who are confused, read the title again... it's "Bill's Top 10 P2P MMOs". If they don't match yours, that's totally fine. Give us your 10 and why they are that way for you, as I've done.
No one in a list that is based on opinion is right or wrong. Try to be objective and realize that this list is just me stating my favorite games and trying to encapsulate in 1-2 paragraphs why they're on there.
And yes, Auto Assault made my list. If it was still running there's a good chance it would be higher. I loved that game and carry no shame in announcing so! *shakes fist at NCsoft*
Here's the thing about that, people want to know the article writing and even more importantly, the reviews, coming from the site are valid. When you post a list like this, most of the community will now not be able to take any articles you write about MMOs respectfully.
Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion (and we all are very clear of that when we get yelled at by a certain main article writer everytime we point out flaws in his writings), but on a site where essentially your income is from attracting gamers to come to your site and read your insights, your opinions are best to relate to your main audience. There's a reason there are different network stations on TV, they all have a different core audience and make program directed at that audience. It's not to say that programming one network airs is wrong and another is right, but they are doing right by their own audiences.
To post a list like this you are basically going against this sites core audience, which tends to be more hard core and highly opinionated MMO gamers. They want to see a list that shows the quality games that have been created, not the terrible games that the majority of your readers make hate posts about on a daily basis.
So yes, have your own opinions. But two things go along with that, don't tell us to not ridicule/destroy your post in our posts. And second, consider your audience on your posts. It would seem there are a lot of articles being posted up lately that get a lot of thrashing in the responses. I don't know if that's because you found that the site visits/article reading numbers go up when they cause controversy (which I would wager is the main reason). Or because you guys have lost touch with your own site users.
Yes we all know it says "Bill's Top Ten P2P MMOs" but it doesn't make people any happier then if it just said "Top Ten P2P MMOs", both titles mean they come from someone that works for the site and could review games/write articles about how games play.
So...basically you're telling the guy to either:
A) Lie
or
Write down the numbers 1 through 10 and beside each number write "Fill in your approved game here".
My problem is instead people trying to tell the guy how to do his job but then get their feelings hurt when someone tells them how to read an article. If you dish it, learn to take it. The article was meant to get the readers to write out their own lists. Apparently the reading comphrension of this site's members is the worst ever. No, instead they want to bash on this guy because they aren't bright enough to come up with their own lists.
If anything I'd much rather see Bill's true thoughts on the games he likes such that when he does review a future game I'm interested in I know where he's coming from and how much to value his opinion. Afterall with such articles as these I get a better sense of his tastes for certain gameplay.
If they want a list that shows "quality games" as far as they are concerned then they should stop acting like a bunch of Pavlovian lemmings and write that list in their own responses as opposed to depending on Bill and other's lists to ring and start that salivating approval.
But, I guess it goes to show that the majority of gamers do indeed like to be led by the hand and told what to do, when to do and how to do it...in their gaming and in real life. *shrug*
So you basically complained about people reading something and complaining about it. And then you read something and complained about it?
So you basically complained that instead of coming up with opinions that people were saying the list sucked. And then you complained about an opinion.
Basically you're a hypocrit who wants everyone to say nice things about every article for the sake of saying nice things. Way to completely make your own remarks irelevant while you wrote them.
I was giving some insight into why people hated the list, and I don't think it is far off. To sum it up for you since you had a hard time reading and understanding what was being said. This site's market is the more hardcore/more serious MMO gamer, those that have played a lot of games and many of which have been around since the beginning of graphical MMOs.
When those people read a review of a game they aren't playing or don't yet have access to, they want to know the person reviewing it shares their ideas. If the person writing the review has different opinions then most of the readers of the site, the review is completely useless. So when those readers see a top ten list like this, that is soooooo different from the majority of the sites readers they get annoyed. And no they don't want him to lie, they want people who share their ideas to work on the articles.
Although I'm sure you still won't bother to actually read, you'll just do exactly what you say you hate other people doing.
01) EQ2 - I'd still be playing if wasn't for the combination of a meaningful item shop with monthly fees
02) EQ - No other game had me more immersed in a world
03) WoW - Great game made unplayable by it's horrid community
04) LoTRO - Nice epic feel ruined (for me) by two things; LI's and Radiance
05) DDO - best character customization around, and though light in numbers, has some of the best quests
06) AC2 - Dunno why, I just loved this game
07) AO - ground breaking for it's time
08) CoH - SUPERHERO's!!!
Now for my worst....
01) MxO - just horrible
02) TR - see above
03) Horizons - If you like being beholden to dedicated crafters, this is the game for you. Personally, I disliked having to suck crafter cock to get gear...
04) Darkfall - Dear god, what a mess
05) Guildwars - though not technically an MMO, many people think it is. Boring, just flat out a yawn-fest
06) Aion - A Korean grind game disquised as a WoW clone...
01) EQ2 - I'd still be playing if wasn't for the combination of a meaningful item shop with monthly fees
02) EQ - No other game had me more immersed in a world
03) WoW - Great game made unplayable by it's horrid community
04) LoTRO - Nice epic feel ruined (for me) by two things; LI's and Radiance
05) DDO - best character customization around, and though light in numbers, has some of the best quests
06) AC2 - Dunno why, I just loved this game
07) AO - ground breaking for it's time
08) CoH - SUPERHERO's!!!
Now for my worst....
01) MxO - just horrible
02) TR - see above
03) Horizons - If you like being beholden to dedicated crafters, this is the game for you. Personally, I disliked having to suck crafter cock to get gear...
04) Darkfall - Dear god, what a mess
05) Guildwars - though not technically an MMO, many people think it is. Boring, just flat out a yawn-fest
06) Aion - A Korean grind game disquised as a WoW clone...
Huh??
Just what exactly do you find "meaningful" in the Station Marketplace? 10% speed gain to leveling????? Seriously? There's really nothing at all else "meaningful" in the item shop. That is unless you consider non-combat pets, dress up appearance only gear with no stats, and housewares to be "meaningful."
By the way....as a 4 year veteran of the game...I get a limited number of pots that are 50% buffs to leveling crafting and combat xp, and MOST of the players are vets and therefore...wouldn't waste money on a measly 10% pot. It's not like there is anything in there that gives stat bonuses or items with stats, etc. Nothing that gives you advantages in PvP, etc.....so.....
Sorry...I'm just curious as to what is in there that you find "meaningful."
"But that doesn't change the fact that no other company is currently capable of matching the quality and breadth of contentoffered by Blizzard"
Really?......Really? Over statement bro im sorry. When I came across that part.... WoW "WAS" a top hit...but time moves on. Make room for newer and better things that are already released. Sad.
I knew when I was asked to write a list of MY OWN top favorite P2P games that we'd be inciting a riot. I have different tastes than most, and some would certainly simply say I have bad taste. But again, that's all opinion. But these are my own favorite P2P games right now. As stated right at the top of the article, this list will change over time no doubt.
But for those who are confused, read the title again... it's "Bill's Top 10 P2P MMOs". If they don't match yours, that's totally fine. Give us your 10 and why they are that way for you, as I've done.
No one in a list that is based on opinion is right or wrong. Try to be objective and realize that this list is just me stating my favorite games and trying to encapsulate in 1-2 paragraphs why they're on there.
And yes, Auto Assault made my list. If it was still running there's a good chance it would be higher. I loved that game and carry no shame in announcing so! *shakes fist at NCsoft*
Here's the thing about that, people want to know the article writing and even more importantly, the reviews, coming from the site are valid. When you post a list like this, most of the community will now not be able to take any articles you write about MMOs respectfully.
Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion (and we all are very clear of that when we get yelled at by a certain main article writer everytime we point out flaws in his writings), but on a site where essentially your income is from attracting gamers to come to your site and read your insights, your opinions are best to relate to your main audience. There's a reason there are different network stations on TV, they all have a different core audience and make program directed at that audience. It's not to say that programming one network airs is wrong and another is right, but they are doing right by their own audiences.
To post a list like this you are basically going against this sites core audience, which tends to be more hard core and highly opinionated MMO gamers. They want to see a list that shows the quality games that have been created, not the terrible games that the majority of your readers make hate posts about on a daily basis.
So yes, have your own opinions. But two things go along with that, don't tell us to not ridicule/destroy your post in our posts. And second, consider your audience on your posts. It would seem there are a lot of articles being posted up lately that get a lot of thrashing in the responses. I don't know if that's because you found that the site visits/article reading numbers go up when they cause controversy (which I would wager is the main reason). Or because you guys have lost touch with your own site users.
Yes we all know it says "Bill's Top Ten P2P MMOs" but it doesn't make people any happier then if it just said "Top Ten P2P MMOs", both titles mean they come from someone that works for the site and could review games/write articles about how games play.
So...basically you're telling the guy to either:
A) Lie
or
Write down the numbers 1 through 10 and beside each number write "Fill in your approved game here".
My problem is instead people trying to tell the guy how to do his job but then get their feelings hurt when someone tells them how to read an article. If you dish it, learn to take it. The article was meant to get the readers to write out their own lists. Apparently the reading comphrension of this site's members is the worst ever. No, instead they want to bash on this guy because they aren't bright enough to come up with their own lists.
If anything I'd much rather see Bill's true thoughts on the games he likes such that when he does review a future game I'm interested in I know where he's coming from and how much to value his opinion. Afterall with such articles as these I get a better sense of his tastes for certain gameplay.
If they want a list that shows "quality games" as far as they are concerned then they should stop acting like a bunch of Pavlovian lemmings and write that list in their own responses as opposed to depending on Bill and other's lists to ring and start that salivating approval.
But, I guess it goes to show that the majority of gamers do indeed like to be led by the hand and told what to do, when to do and how to do it...in their gaming and in real life. *shrug*
So you basically complained about people reading something and complaining about it. And then you read something and complained about it?
Nah, I was just offering my own insight in to your and others "reaction" to the thread and your inability to accept other's opinions and constructively reply with your own.
So you basically complained that instead of coming up with opinions that people were saying the list sucked. And then you complained about an opinion.
If you dish complaining, learn to take it.
Basically you're a hypocrit who wants everyone to say nice things about every article for the sake of saying nice things. Way to completely make your own remarks irelevant while you wrote them.
If indeed it is hypocritical, I'm not the only one guilty of it here. See above. That aside at least I'm not acting like a jerk toward the OP and countless other authors who have posted lists on this site. I'll take hypocrit versus a hypocritical jerk anyday.
I was giving some insight into why people hated the list, and I don't think it is far off. To sum it up for you since you had a hard time reading and understanding what was being said. This site's market is the more hardcore/more serious MMO gamer, those that have played a lot of games and many of which have been around since the beginning of graphical MMOs.
It looks/reads more like you were trying to do as I listed in my previous thread. You were telling the guy he can't voice his own opinions because they don't agree with yours or the others in this thread. Even when the article explicity tells you before you dive into it that it is the OP's personal opinion list and not some official site list on which the lemmings of this site can fill up their cups of blue juice and drink their fill of of validation that their favorites are universally the favorites of all MMO gamers.
When those people read a review of a game they aren't playing or don't yet have access to, they want to know the person reviewing it shares their ideas. If the person writing the review has different opinions then most of the readers of the site, the review is completely useless. So when those readers see a top ten list like this, that is soooooo different from the majority of the sites readers they get annoyed. And no they don't want him to lie, they want people who share their ideas to work on the articles.
No they don't. When those people read such reviews they just want to know where the guy is coming from. They want to know his likes/dislikes so that when he does review a game they like they know his interests. If his interests are different from theirs and he dislikes a game they would know equally well that this may be a game they might enjoy. They can then seek out other reviews, maybe of another reviewer who does share their likes, and make further judgement. Having a site where all the reviewers liked the exact same things game wise does no service to all of the site's members who themselves don't all like the same thing.
Although I'm sure you still won't bother to actually read, you'll just do exactly what you say you hate other people doing.
No, I read what you wrote. But it's just like I said earlier in that you and others can't accept that other folks have different likes than you and that just because they get an official position it doesn't mean they have to give up their preferences. Instead of allowing them to truthfully be themselves you'd rather them change their beliefs and likes to suit yours, even if they have to lie.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
Been playing about 10 years now so here is my list.
1. Shadowbane- I am not even a very good PvP player and I loved this game, there was no game that had a sense of suspense and forboding as shadowbane, You would meet at the Tree of Life and then your group would head out to farm and perhaps attack another group, wedll you were traveling some of your mates might be picked off by hidden rouges. great fun and tension.
2. Guild wars- when if first came out there were huge amounts of people playing and the PvP action was smooth and precise with verylittle lag, this was befor the cheats and complications set in , the pve was good because there were so many playing.
3. Vanguard- Very good game which suffers from performance issues and of course pop issues, only game with diplomacy mini game in it, huge world, , under ulitilized.
4 city of heroes- Loved this game when it first came out, even pick up groups were fantastic in this game , great smooth combat and a good community, repetitive missions , but man you could fly!
5 STO- what can i say so far i am enjoying it, playing the game in a casual way makes for fun ply, really enjoy the splace combat, even the ground combat while clunky is fun, darn no crafting while i guess i wont be bored then.
6 wow, aoc, swg, eq2, tabula, aa, lotro, ok games just never kept my interest for long
7. The realm-my first game with about a million levels, side scrolling old fashion fun
fallen earth, eve , ryzom, darkfall, liniage, potbs, these games I tried and hated either becvause of the bordom factor, to much crafting, i hate outer space games with exception of sto, or poorly made
10. WAR
9. FX11
8. AoC
7. Ryzom
6. CO
5. CoH
4. WoW
3. Lotro
2. Vanguard
1. EVE
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
So...basically you're telling the guy to either:
A) Lie
or
My problem is instead people trying to tell the guy how to do his job but then get their feelings hurt when someone tells them how to read an article. If you dish it, learn to take it. The article was meant to get the readers to write out their own lists. Apparently the reading comphrension of this site's members is the worst ever. No, instead they want to bash on this guy because they aren't bright enough to come up with their own lists.
If anything I'd much rather see Bill's true thoughts on the games he likes such that when he does review a future game I'm interested in I know where he's coming from and how much to value his opinion. Afterall with such articles as these I get a better sense of his tastes for certain gameplay.
If they want a list that shows "quality games" as far as they are concerned then they should stop acting like a bunch of Pavlovian lemmings and write that list in their own responses as opposed to depending on Bill and other's lists to ring and start that salivating approval.
But, I guess it goes to show that the majority of gamers do indeed like to be led by the hand and told what to do, when to do and how to do it...in their gaming and in real life. *shrug*
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Great remark. And very accurate and true. Perhaps I found a new signature for the meantime
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
Can't say i disagree with you
Another thought.....
Just when I think all mmo gamers are similar, I see a list like the OPs. Then I read the thread and realize I'm barely like any of you.....
Opinions are strange windows into the soul.
The two italicized parts show a contradiction. If WoW is the only themepark dominating the market, than logically the other market dominators are sandbox's. So what sandbox's are you talking about? EVE is the only sandbox which might even enter the top ten. And it may be the only non 'aaa' title (as you put it) in the top ten - what are you rambling about?
I don't have a top ten, personally have never played ten that was good (held my attention more than 3 months)
My top five reverse order
5. WOW
I never saw what everyone else saw. but I did appreciate how well it was done. The spit and shine outstanding. As the most exspensive MMORPG ever 80Million money well spent
4. Warhammer
If you could just stay level 19 forever.
3. EQ2
Classes great, gear Dull Dull Dull
2. Aion
My current game and I know its slow incomplete (new) and lacking but its just me. Grind and all. Its fun and DAMN i look good
1. EeverQuest
The first game to make a class truly evil (necromancer) and bring forth MUDS from peoples imagination. it truly is the light at the end of the tunnel. It was the first one made for the masses and for the beginning it was very well done.
Actually AION has the same number of servers as when it started so I don't know how you can say it failed and since we are their smallest market (just pocket change) they are crying all the way to the bank
I don't even like the gameplay in EVE Online and I still have a hard time justifying how EVE is possibly missing from this list. I mean, it's EVE. An entire Corporation got robbed and infiltrated in the span of 1 year, and the people who did it stole in excess of $10,000 worth of in-game stuff (assuming one were to buy the in-game stuff using real world currency).
How is a game where that can even potentially happen and be legal not #1? WoW is fine, it deserves to be up there but I doubt over EVE. Get Champions Online off because that game is a piece of crap with no content.
Cryptic only knows how to make "MMOs" that are filled with 100s of 15-20 player instances of like, five zones. Having to choose to go to "Superhero Place #125" really takes any possible immersion out instantaneously.
Anyone consider he has not played EVE?
Games I have played and resubbed (or have never quit) should be good criteria. Oddly enough these games did it for me:
10. Star Wars Galaxies
9. World of Warcraft
8. Dungeons and Dragons Online
7. Champions Online - kids love it.
6. Everquest
5. Everquest 2
4. City of Heroes
3. Dark Age of Camelot
2. Lord of the Rings Online - the game i wish i had time to play
1. SW:KOTOR - here is hoping
I was wondering this myself. I don't play eve and would still give it the #1 spot
I look for depth and immersion in a MMO, I am generally a fan of the more sandbox genre..
10. Ryzom
9. Dark Age of Camelot
8. Asheron's Call
7. Anarchy Online
6. Star Wars Galaxies - Pre-Jedi
5. Global Agenda
4. Fallen Earth
3. Eve Online
2. Ultima Online
1. Darkfall Online
I don't believe in putting games on the list that people can no longer play.... I would list Dungeons & Dragons Online, but the game is currently free..
As far as PVP goes.. Darkfall is easily the best if you want something hardcorew, new and exciting, the combat alone has not been experienced in a MMORPG before, it is a very engaging and immersive game with a beautiful world.. It all depends on your ninche though.. If you enjoy casual PvP, then play Warhammer or WoW, it seems the game that are most "casual" with their PvP, are the best ones for PvP, which makes no sense..
Fallen Earth was almost a dealbreaker for me, similar to Darkfall in a lot of ways in a different setting, without a hardcore PVP aspect, there is PVP zones however.. I really enjoy the crafting in Fallen Earth, and the skill system is unique..
Champions Online? Age of Conan? Seriously? Mr. Murphy seems to have a low standard for mmos and a high tolerance for subpar game mechanics and poor customer service. CO is a snorefest and AoC's so-called mature content was nerfed beyond recognition within the first month of launch. I only subscribed to CO to get Star Trek Online early beta access. I quit AoC after three months when Funcom pretty much snubbed the player community and turned their attention to Secret World instead. If this were my list EVE Online would be somewhere in the top three or five.
And dude, the phrase "Without further adieu" you keep regurgitating in your articles is wrong. The word you're looking for is 'ado'... without further ado. 'Adieu' is French for farewell.
1. Dark Age of Camelot - Even to this day, NO mmo comes even close to the PvP thrills this game offers.
2. Final Fantasy 11 - I play so many hours of this game without switching to another it has to be good!
3. Age of Conan - I have the majority of the original comic books, of course this game was a perfect fit, especially after all the fixes.
4. World of Warcraft - Probably the 3rd most "hours played" game on my list.
5. Neverwinter Nights - Are we only counting "still-running" mmos? If we aren't, I still would have this on my list. My first mmorpg way back in the early '90s before any of these other.
6. Ultima Online - Sandbox ftw...too bad the 8 year old griefers had to ruin it.
7. Lord of the Rings - I was disappointed with this game, but it was fun for the first 50 levels.
8. Eve Online - I never got really far into this game, but it's fun being a miner, until some Warship comes and blows you up.
9. City of Heroes- I loved this game, I just didn't like the enhancement system it used.
10. Warhammer Online - This game was promised to be so much, and probably would've been, if they'd have followed the proven method of having more than good vs evil.
#5 makes me feel old...can't believe it's been almost 19 years of playing mmos lol
This list is authors personal opinion so it can't be wrong, weird or bad. He gave some insights on why he chose the 10 mmo's. Despite the famous and honorable UltimaOnline theres no mmo I'd agree with.
My list:
1. Everquest - no game will ever game close to this world as said as it is - bring us a new "evercrack" need!
2. Ultima Online - how dare you fuckers introduced Trammel and destroyed it
3. Vanguard - under Sigil/M$
4. Aion - great game just too much W..fanboys, not enough endgame PvE content
5. Darkfall Online - my "new" love its EvE in a fantasy world so both could flip flop. Just I'm missing the big raidbosses
6. EvE Online - unbelievable Sandbox, great pvp and tons of reedom tough I don't like the scifi that much
7. Dark Age of Camelot - never played it but lots of palls did so hands down a great pvp game
8. Meridian 59 - the godfather of all MMORPGS
9. World of Warcraft - at least it had some great exEverquestdevs till the last expansion and a nice open world
10. Everquest 2 - hard to list a game that should have become the Everquest successor and failed miserably
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
It's a perfect list. It's goal was to have 10 titles in it, and it achieved that. If I were populating the same list, I'd choose mostly the same titles. Well done OP. Though next time, make a top 100 list, so Eve can get on it.
So you basically complained about people reading something and complaining about it. And then you read something and complained about it?
So you basically complained that instead of coming up with opinions that people were saying the list sucked. And then you complained about an opinion.
Basically you're a hypocrit who wants everyone to say nice things about every article for the sake of saying nice things. Way to completely make your own remarks irelevant while you wrote them.
I was giving some insight into why people hated the list, and I don't think it is far off. To sum it up for you since you had a hard time reading and understanding what was being said. This site's market is the more hardcore/more serious MMO gamer, those that have played a lot of games and many of which have been around since the beginning of graphical MMOs.
When those people read a review of a game they aren't playing or don't yet have access to, they want to know the person reviewing it shares their ideas. If the person writing the review has different opinions then most of the readers of the site, the review is completely useless. So when those readers see a top ten list like this, that is soooooo different from the majority of the sites readers they get annoyed. And no they don't want him to lie, they want people who share their ideas to work on the articles.
Although I'm sure you still won't bother to actually read, you'll just do exactly what you say you hate other people doing.
SRSLY WOT
Actively playing: EVE primarily
Let's see.....
01) EQ2 - I'd still be playing if wasn't for the combination of a meaningful item shop with monthly fees
02) EQ - No other game had me more immersed in a world
03) WoW - Great game made unplayable by it's horrid community
04) LoTRO - Nice epic feel ruined (for me) by two things; LI's and Radiance
05) DDO - best character customization around, and though light in numbers, has some of the best quests
06) AC2 - Dunno why, I just loved this game
07) AO - ground breaking for it's time
08) CoH - SUPERHERO's!!!
Now for my worst....
01) MxO - just horrible
02) TR - see above
03) Horizons - If you like being beholden to dedicated crafters, this is the game for you. Personally, I disliked having to suck crafter cock to get gear...
04) Darkfall - Dear god, what a mess
05) Guildwars - though not technically an MMO, many people think it is. Boring, just flat out a yawn-fest
06) Aion - A Korean grind game disquised as a WoW clone...
Huh??
Just what exactly do you find "meaningful" in the Station Marketplace? 10% speed gain to leveling????? Seriously? There's really nothing at all else "meaningful" in the item shop. That is unless you consider non-combat pets, dress up appearance only gear with no stats, and housewares to be "meaningful."
By the way....as a 4 year veteran of the game...I get a limited number of pots that are 50% buffs to leveling crafting and combat xp, and MOST of the players are vets and therefore...wouldn't waste money on a measly 10% pot. It's not like there is anything in there that gives stat bonuses or items with stats, etc. Nothing that gives you advantages in PvP, etc.....so.....
Sorry...I'm just curious as to what is in there that you find "meaningful."
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
"But that doesn't change the fact that no other company is currently capable of matching the quality and breadth of content offered by Blizzard"
Really?......Really? Over statement bro im sorry. When I came across that part.... WoW "WAS" a top hit...but time moves on. Make room for newer and better things that are already released. Sad.
LOTRO, GW, FFXI, RS, EVE, AION, AOC, WHO, FE,
I dont see EVE Online there....
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez