And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
I've been an Nvidia fan for a very long time and was waiting for the fermi's to come out before I built my newest rig. When they delayed them I went ahead and went with the 5870 card and have not regretted it one bit. Idle is low 40's upper 30's under a full load I hit 60s maybe low 70s after hours of itense graphics. These are with my fans never going above 50% and all graphics maxed out on games like Mass Effect 2.
Posting Canadian prices? I didn't see Izork post that he was Candian so does that fact really matter? Current in the US they are more expensive and that is the market that affects my wallet. Hardcore Nvidia fans will stand by these but until you get to version 2 or 3 of these cards where Nvidia can refine and improve them they aren't worth the money. Get a 5870 or even a 5770 I don't think there are any games available right now that push these cards.
Fun fact the 5870 out performs or is the same as the 480 in every area but teslation and then there the 480 only has slighty better performance. This was the result from test done by Nvidia themselves.
Noise- after 50% the fans do get louder so both cards are probably about the same in this area
Heat - both cards stay within acceptable temperatures, make sure you have big cases for them both
Cost - ATI is cheaper to buy and uses less energy so your electric bill will be lower (not much but if cost is your number #1 then it will matter to you)
Performance - ATI the same or better in most areas, Nvidia take a little lead in the Tesllation area
Availability - The 470 and 480 are difficult to find available unless you spend every minute checking your source. ATI pretty available and in stock.
Let me state this again, I do not think or have the premise ATI or the 5k series are bad.
The Candian $ is just as good as the American $ my friend and on newegg.com and .ca the 5970 no availability. The 5870 was cheaper to buy sure.
No offence but it is widely conceived that the GTX 480 is faster than the 5870. I got my gtx 480 perfectly fine for just over $500 and it performs twice as fast a GTX 285 in most cases. I could of gone for a 5870 for $70 odd cheaper but I prefered the performance.
It is also widely considered the GTX 480 has higher minimum frame rates, very important consideration if you play games.
I get 30% better FPS in crysis warhead and I load up faster and get better frame rate in Battlefield bad company 2 compared to friends on similar systems with a 5870. Age of Conan gives me 40% better frame rates than a similar system with a 5870. Is that worth it for the price of a game and a half. Sure is for me.
Tesselation in DX11 will come more in the future, things look promising for Fermi there. It beats a 5970 in unigine.
All this 6 million cards shipped is bollocks when we talk 5970 as there is less than 100 reviews on the site.
Don't make me laugh the the electricity bill argument either. Most people probably left that 100w lightbulb on in a room with no one in it, or all their equipment on standby.
Fermi is on release drivers. ATI has had 6 months to better theirs. write the scores down now and lets compare again in 6 months with better driver support from Nvidia.
Yes, it is widely conceived that 480 is roughly 10% faster than 5870, noone ever denied that fact.
Also, tesselation plays a very small role in gaming, technology demos like unigine are totally different matter.
You really think those 6 million cards are all 5970s? Pointless argument.
Electricity bill is real and a fact, maybe it doesn't matter to you but for most people it does.
Optimization will come for sure, from both camps. You will not see anything dramatic however.
Wait so you are saying it is ok to post charts of furmark benchmark with ATI and Nvidia do not like but it is not ok to talk about unigine. Take the tesselation off I still beat an ati card in that test..
You think games do not use tesselation at the moment? what are all those triangles. More is better, Nvidia designed for ability to have more. Not only that, I have proper physics and 32 AA.
Of course the 6 million cards are not 5970, but it is a funny PR release when no 5970's are available in North American from the LARGEST e-teller for months and months.
Of course the electricity bill matters. All I was saying I bet the people moaning about it leave a lightbulb on somewhere, have alarm clocks, PVR's, DCT's, monitors on standby all the time.
Optimization. Ok the newest card for GTX 480 just released on launch drivers. Check the performance data from when 5870 launched to date in charts under older cataylst drivers to present. Safe can be said the same for Nvidia and then some. Widely acccepted that Nvidia produce better and more frequent drivers. I am not expecting dramatic just performance increase which is natural if we go off what happened with the 5870.
Lastly a little more than 10% better sorry to disappoint again, and with the above only going to get better. This is while ATI are scambling about trying to sort out the shit minimun frame rates in the 5k series in games but that is at least 2 months away.
FFS, did you even read what I wrote? Furmark solely exists to bring out the max temperatures which cards can achieve on load.
I didn't say games do not use tessellation. But the tesselation performance is next to meaningless cause of the minor usage when looking at the total image draw power.
You are making ridiculous conclusion based on availability in single store.
The power bill is totally up to personal preference, some people might not care about those and some people do.
That claim about better drivers from nvidia is absolute garbage. You made that up totally in your own head. Just look at highest blue screen causes in vista for example, nvdia is above everything else.
Generally, it's about 10%. Any source for absurd claim?
Single Card to single card is fair. The 480 touches upon the 5970 which is a dual soloution in lots of games. $200 extra for the fastest card is a bit too much, if it was in stock I would of been very tempted.
Pick a game and I'll give you a figure for the 480.
and the 5970 is a single card, but with a diffrent solution. If you want to have sub categories then you have to have in mind that the 480 gtx has 0.5 gb more graphic memory than the 5870- that is not fair either you know
I could see this last generation as well. the ATI fanboys said that the 4870x2 was the fastest and greatest card while the nvidia fanboys said it didnt count becuse it had two gpu´s. When the 295 gtx came and took the crown the ATI boys said it didnt count becuse it had two gpus. Guess what the Nvidia gang said
One card is one card. What they are putting on to it dosent matter in my book. Give me a good card and I will buy it. The gtx 480 is not a good card but v.2 will probably be a awsome card
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by Izork
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
These are the temps with nzxt hush silent case.
Many other reviews also indicate very similar temps.
You can also stop nagging about canadian prices, it's well seen that the price are very different elsewhere.
Your chart doesn't show fan speed? and that is a bit of a cheap case.
What I am saying is real world experience on my desk not on a test bench.
So in your books fermi needs an expensive case so you can use it?
No, didn't say that. One would assume if you are spending that much money on a GPU you would have a case with decent airflow. It is a 3 yr old case. You have to re-aarange the bays on that case to fit a 5970.
As noted those all one has to do is bump up the 480 fan speed and things are fine. That chart shows no fan speed setting for any card it could be anything.
In those videos I linked you can hear the fan speed. The last one the guy even says 5870 is louder and he has video to prove it.
You shouldn't need to buy expensive case just to for extremely hot graphic card. The fan speeds are stock on that review.
You do not need to, that 5970 is 31 cm long the longest card ever made and is not designed for that case.
The acoustic levels on default fan speed settings are important as well as at load.
I as well as many other posted GTX 480 owners have stated often that by cranking the fan speed % up you can not hear the difference.
Temps and heat are great. It is not extremely hot. Is furmark running 24/7 for you? How many people you think just run it? It is not the same as playing a game. You think an 8degree C difference on your chart from 105 to 97 with ATI 5970 > 480 is massive?
Performance is better.
With a simple fan change setting temps are non issue with GTX 480 and neither are ascoustic levels.
Sorry to disappoint. Proof is infront of me.
You are totally missing the point. Apparently you don't know what problems such temps cause.
You are changing your mind all the time. First you compare it to 5870 and then again to 5970, please, make up your mind to which are you comparing it to and messing up the discussion.
All those measures are made in same case, so they are comparable.
Many people want silent computers, from the pic you provided I can instantly tell your computer is not silent, not even near. It's not very good reputation for fermi, if you need to buy a big and noisy case just to keep the temps down in safe numbers.
You brought the chart out with the cards on it to compare first. You changed the comparisons up. You questioned the Unigine test but felt ok to put up furmark ones? You seem to switch the discussion around, you want to focus on heat and noise. I showed my temps are normal and fine. You then want to talk performance, I compared and now your back to noise again.
My PC is not louder that it's previous inhabitants of 2xGTX 285. I think the PC is quite quiet personally. I have also linked to people who have owned and shown videos where people can judge for themselves the acoustic volume comparisons between the 5870 and the GTX 480.
Whatever, I got a GTX 480 it performs awesome in games, it is quiet and not as hot as people (not owners) like the make out. My card never gets above 85c in any game I play. The temp inside my case is always 26-30c never higher.
If I benchmark and put the fan on 100% then yes it is LOUD but that is not a real life situation for me.
I can deal with my purchase seems some people can't. I thought i'd post about the BS spread around on noise and temps also linked to others saying same thing.
You are welcome to the grey screen of death. Tesselation on Unigine from normal to extreme does bring more power out lol. It is a benchmark to bring out DX11 performance not heat, measuring heat running that benchmark is not an issues.
About the 10% I linked reputable websites before. More than that. We know it is better than 10% on the whole. Anandtech, wins 8/10 games as eg.
Look I am playing games at great FPS with no issues on powerdraw or temps or acoustic noise, end of story, fastest that 5870 end of story. Great I am not worried about price, still a fact though in performance. My choice and decision. I am just posting real life experiences. It is ok to disagree.
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
I've been an Nvidia fan for a very long time and was waiting for the fermi's to come out before I built my newest rig. When they delayed them I went ahead and went with the 5870 card and have not regretted it one bit. Idle is low 40's upper 30's under a full load I hit 60s maybe low 70s after hours of itense graphics. These are with my fans never going above 50% and all graphics maxed out on games like Mass Effect 2.
Posting Canadian prices? I didn't see Izork post that he was Candian so does that fact really matter? Current in the US they are more expensive and that is the market that affects my wallet. Hardcore Nvidia fans will stand by these but until you get to version 2 or 3 of these cards where Nvidia can refine and improve them they aren't worth the money. Get a 5870 or even a 5770 I don't think there are any games available right now that push these cards.
Fun fact the 5870 out performs or is the same as the 480 in every area but teslation and then there the 480 only has slighty better performance. This was the result from test done by Nvidia themselves.
Noise- after 50% the fans do get louder so both cards are probably about the same in this area
Heat - both cards stay within acceptable temperatures, make sure you have big cases for them both
Cost - ATI is cheaper to buy and uses less energy so your electric bill will be lower (not much but if cost is your number #1 then it will matter to you)
Performance - ATI the same or better in most areas, Nvidia take a little lead in the Tesllation area
Availability - The 470 and 480 are difficult to find available unless you spend every minute checking your source. ATI pretty available and in stock.
Let me state this again, I do not think or have the premise ATI or the 5k series are bad.
Here are my idle temps typing this:
under load on ATI designed benchmark not even hitting in the 70c's.
The Candian $ is just as good as the American $ my friend and on newegg.com and .ca the 5970 no availability. The 5870 was cheaper to buy sure.
No offence but it is widely conceived that the GTX 480 is faster than the 5870. I got my gtx 480 perfectly fine for just over $500 and it performs twice as fast a GTX 285 in most cases. I could of gone for a 5870 for $70 odd cheaper but I prefered the performance.
It is also widely considered the GTX 480 has higher minimum frame rates, very important consideration if you play games.
I get 30% better FPS in crysis warhead and I load up faster and get better frame rate in Battlefield bad company 2 compared to friends on similar systems with a 5870. Age of Conan gives me 40% better frame rates than a similar system with a 5870. Is that worth it for the price of a game and a half. Sure is for me.
Tesselation in DX11 will come more in the future, things look promising for Fermi there. It beats a 5970 in unigine.
All this 6 million cards shipped is bollocks when we talk 5970 as there is less than 100 reviews on the site.
Don't make me laugh the the electricity bill argument either. Most people probably left that 100w lightbulb on in a room with no one in it, or all their equipment on standby.
Fermi is on release drivers. ATI has had 6 months to better theirs. write the scores down now and lets compare again in 6 months with better driver support from Nvidia.
I'm glad you got the screen shots out of your system. I never said the the GTX 480 was a bad card. I'm sure it will get better with time. Its just not enough of an increase in performance yet for me to justify dumping my 5870 to spend another $500 or for me to recommend it to someone else. I really didn't mention the 5970 at all because I don't have one and will not post speculation about it. My 5870 blows everything away that I put it against. 100FPS on average or more. The human eye at the most can see 30 FPS so anything above that is wasted and barely noticed. I'm glad you are happy with your purchase and in the end that is what matters most.
I mentioned the electric bill because it does matter to me and that is why I put it in there as a value with energy. You can't say energy consumption as something you look at and not consider the electric bill. My lights stay off all day until the night time and I have energy saving bulbs. I have not had to pay over $100 for electricity for a while now and that is more money in my pocket that I can put towards important things. I have a decent system I think. Core i7 920, triple channel 6gb DD3 1600, Radeoon 5870, 850W PSU, Cooler master HAF 933 FT case. I'm happy with that and will be for quite some time. Benchmark videos from Nvidia still show a very small increase in some areas over the 5870. I'm happy with that. Any more talk on this is just to show...well nothing really . Faster speeds transfering smaller bits of informaiton or slower speeds transferring largers bits of information. Whatever as long as my game works when I am on cool down mode after work I'm good.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Kuriakos
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by Kuriakos
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by Izork
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
I've been an Nvidia fan for a very long time and was waiting for the fermi's to come out before I built my newest rig. When they delayed them I went ahead and went with the 5870 card and have not regretted it one bit. Idle is low 40's upper 30's under a full load I hit 60s maybe low 70s after hours of itense graphics. These are with my fans never going above 50% and all graphics maxed out on games like Mass Effect 2.
Posting Canadian prices? I didn't see Izork post that he was Candian so does that fact really matter? Current in the US they are more expensive and that is the market that affects my wallet. Hardcore Nvidia fans will stand by these but until you get to version 2 or 3 of these cards where Nvidia can refine and improve them they aren't worth the money. Get a 5870 or even a 5770 I don't think there are any games available right now that push these cards.
Fun fact the 5870 out performs or is the same as the 480 in every area but teslation and then there the 480 only has slighty better performance. This was the result from test done by Nvidia themselves.
Noise- after 50% the fans do get louder so both cards are probably about the same in this area
Heat - both cards stay within acceptable temperatures, make sure you have big cases for them both
Cost - ATI is cheaper to buy and uses less energy so your electric bill will be lower (not much but if cost is your number #1 then it will matter to you)
Performance - ATI the same or better in most areas, Nvidia take a little lead in the Tesllation area
Availability - The 470 and 480 are difficult to find available unless you spend every minute checking your source. ATI pretty available and in stock.
Let me state this again, I do not think or have the premise ATI or the 5k series are bad.
Here are my idle temps typing this:
under load on ATI designed benchmark not even hitting in the 70c's.
The Candian $ is just as good as the American $ my friend and on newegg.com and .ca the 5970 no availability. The 5870 was cheaper to buy sure.
No offence but it is widely conceived that the GTX 480 is faster than the 5870. I got my gtx 480 perfectly fine for just over $500 and it performs twice as fast a GTX 285 in most cases. I could of gone for a 5870 for $70 odd cheaper but I prefered the performance.
It is also widely considered the GTX 480 has higher minimum frame rates, very important consideration if you play games.
I get 30% better FPS in crysis warhead and I load up faster and get better frame rate in Battlefield bad company 2 compared to friends on similar systems with a 5870. Age of Conan gives me 40% better frame rates than a similar system with a 5870. Is that worth it for the price of a game and a half. Sure is for me.
Tesselation in DX11 will come more in the future, things look promising for Fermi there. It beats a 5970 in unigine.
All this 6 million cards shipped is bollocks when we talk 5970 as there is less than 100 reviews on the site.
Don't make me laugh the the electricity bill argument either. Most people probably left that 100w lightbulb on in a room with no one in it, or all their equipment on standby.
Fermi is on release drivers. ATI has had 6 months to better theirs. write the scores down now and lets compare again in 6 months with better driver support from Nvidia.
I'm glad you got the screen shots out of your system. I never said the the GTX 480 was a bad card. I'm sure it will get better with time. Its just not enough of an increase in performance yet for me to justify dumping my 5870 to spend another $500 or for me to recommend it to someone else. I really didn't mention the 5970 at all because I don't have one and will not post speculation about it. My 5870 blows everything away that I put it against. 100FPS on average or more. The human eye at the most can see 30 FPS so anything above that is wasted and barely noticed. I'm glad you are happy with your purchase and in the end that is what matters most.
I mentioned the electric bill because it does matter to me and that is why I put it in there as a value with energy. You can't say energy consumption as something you look at and not consider the electric bill. My lights stay off all day until the night time and I have energy saving bulbs. I have not had to pay over $100 for electricity for a while now and that is more money in my pocket that I can put towards important things. I have a decent system I think. Core i7 920, triple channel 6gb DD3 1600, Radeoon 5870, 850W PSU, Cooler master HAF 933 FT case. I'm happy with that and will be for quite some time. Benchmark videos from Nvidia still show a very small increase in some areas over the 5870. I'm happy with that. Any more talk on this is just to show...well nothing really . Faster speeds transfering smaller bits of informaiton or slower speeds transferring largers bits of information. Whatever as long as my game works when I am on cool down mode after work I'm good.
I can totally agree with you and see where you are coming from. I just chose to spend a little more. The main game I play is AoC and in that game with everything cranked up in DX10 with a 4870x2 (own) or GTX 285 (own) you can sometimes get below 30 FPS in some situations because of how demanding it can be. Friends have 5870 and I have seen the figures for it which are great, I still wanted a bit more and was the kicker for my purchase. Could of easily been a 5970 if could of found one. I can appreciate your purchase decision and respect that, it is a good choice. I just wanted to chime in and say that I have great performance too, and that temperatures and power draw are not as excessive and some web chat makes out compared to my real life experiences for anyone reading or considering it. I think the 5870 and GTX 480 are both great purchases.
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
These are the temps with nzxt hush silent case.
Many other reviews also indicate very similar temps.
You can also stop nagging about canadian prices, it's well seen that the price are very different elsewhere.
Your chart doesn't show fan speed? and that is a bit of a cheap case.
What I am saying is real world experience on my desk not on a test bench.
So in your books fermi needs an expensive case so you can use it?
No, didn't say that. One would assume if you are spending that much money on a GPU you would have a case with decent airflow. It is a 3 yr old case. You have to re-aarange the bays on that case to fit a 5970.
As noted those all one has to do is bump up the 480 fan speed and things are fine. That chart shows no fan speed setting for any card it could be anything.
In those videos I linked you can hear the fan speed. The last one the guy even says 5870 is louder and he has video to prove it.
You shouldn't need to buy expensive case just to for extremely hot graphic card. The fan speeds are stock on that review.
You do not need to, that 5970 is 31 cm long the longest card ever made and is not designed for that case.
The acoustic levels on default fan speed settings are important as well as at load.
I as well as many other posted GTX 480 owners have stated often that by cranking the fan speed % up you can not hear the difference.
Temps and heat are great. It is not extremely hot. Is furmark running 24/7 for you? How many people you think just run it? It is not the same as playing a game. You think an 8degree C difference on your chart from 105 to 97 with ATI 5970 > 480 is massive?
Performance is better.
With a simple fan change setting temps are non issue with GTX 480 and neither are ascoustic levels.
Sorry to disappoint. Proof is infront of me.
You are totally missing the point. Apparently you don't know what problems such temps cause.
You are changing your mind all the time. First you compare it to 5870 and then again to 5970, please, make up your mind to which are you comparing it to and messing up the discussion.
All those measures are made in same case, so they are comparable.
Many people want silent computers, from the pic you provided I can instantly tell your computer is not silent, not even near. It's not very good reputation for fermi, if you need to buy a big and noisy case just to keep the temps down in safe numbers.
You brought the chart out with the cards on it to compare first. You changed the comparisons up. You questioned the Unigine test but felt ok to put up furmark ones? You seem to switch the discussion around, you want to focus on heat and noise. I showed my temps are normal and fine. You then want to talk performance, I compared and now your back to noise again.
My PC is not louder that it's previous inhabitants of 2xGTX 285. I think the PC is quite quiet personally. I have also linked to people who have owned and shown videos where people can judge for themselves the acoustic volume comparisons between the 5870 and the GTX 480.
Whatever, I got a GTX 480 it performs awesome in games, it is quiet and not as hot as people (not owners) like the make out. My card never gets above 85c in any game I play. The temp inside my case is always 26-30c never higher.
If I benchmark and put the fan on 100% then yes it is LOUD but that is not a real life situation for me.
I can deal with my purchase seems some people can't. I thought i'd post about the BS spread around on noise and temps also linked to others saying same thing.
You are welcome to the grey screen of death. Tesselation on Unigine from normal to extreme does bring more power out lol. It is a benchmark to bring out DX11 performance not heat, measuring heat running that benchmark is not an issues.
About the 10% I linked reputable websites before. More than that. We know it is better than 10% on the whole. Anandtech, wins 8/10 games as eg.
Look I am playing games at great FPS with no issues on powerdraw or temps or acoustic noise, end of story, fastest that 5870 end of story. Great I am not worried about price, still a fact though in performance. My choice and decision. I am just posting real life experiences. It is ok to disagree.
Like I said, furmark is only to test cards at max load. Your unigine analogue is as stupid as ranking cpu speeds with superpi results.
Loudness is a subjective term, your computer would sound horribly loud for people. Fact seem to be, as you can yourself see too, that 480 needs an expensive and loud case to work properly.
You have told us your setup and opinions already many times, no need to tell them again every time. We are dealing with facts here, which professional reviews bring out the best.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by Izork
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
These are the temps with nzxt hush silent case.
Many other reviews also indicate very similar temps.
You can also stop nagging about canadian prices, it's well seen that the price are very different elsewhere.
Your chart doesn't show fan speed? and that is a bit of a cheap case.
What I am saying is real world experience on my desk not on a test bench.
So in your books fermi needs an expensive case so you can use it?
No, didn't say that. One would assume if you are spending that much money on a GPU you would have a case with decent airflow. It is a 3 yr old case. You have to re-aarange the bays on that case to fit a 5970.
As noted those all one has to do is bump up the 480 fan speed and things are fine. That chart shows no fan speed setting for any card it could be anything.
In those videos I linked you can hear the fan speed. The last one the guy even says 5870 is louder and he has video to prove it.
You shouldn't need to buy expensive case just to for extremely hot graphic card. The fan speeds are stock on that review.
You do not need to, that 5970 is 31 cm long the longest card ever made and is not designed for that case.
The acoustic levels on default fan speed settings are important as well as at load.
I as well as many other posted GTX 480 owners have stated often that by cranking the fan speed % up you can not hear the difference.
Temps and heat are great. It is not extremely hot. Is furmark running 24/7 for you? How many people you think just run it? It is not the same as playing a game. You think an 8degree C difference on your chart from 105 to 97 with ATI 5970 > 480 is massive?
Performance is better.
With a simple fan change setting temps are non issue with GTX 480 and neither are ascoustic levels.
Sorry to disappoint. Proof is infront of me.
You are totally missing the point. Apparently you don't know what problems such temps cause.
You are changing your mind all the time. First you compare it to 5870 and then again to 5970, please, make up your mind to which are you comparing it to and messing up the discussion.
All those measures are made in same case, so they are comparable.
Many people want silent computers, from the pic you provided I can instantly tell your computer is not silent, not even near. It's not very good reputation for fermi, if you need to buy a big and noisy case just to keep the temps down in safe numbers.
You brought the chart out with the cards on it to compare first. You changed the comparisons up. You questioned the Unigine test but felt ok to put up furmark ones? You seem to switch the discussion around, you want to focus on heat and noise. I showed my temps are normal and fine. You then want to talk performance, I compared and now your back to noise again.
My PC is not louder that it's previous inhabitants of 2xGTX 285. I think the PC is quite quiet personally. I have also linked to people who have owned and shown videos where people can judge for themselves the acoustic volume comparisons between the 5870 and the GTX 480.
Whatever, I got a GTX 480 it performs awesome in games, it is quiet and not as hot as people (not owners) like the make out. My card never gets above 85c in any game I play. The temp inside my case is always 26-30c never higher.
If I benchmark and put the fan on 100% then yes it is LOUD but that is not a real life situation for me.
I can deal with my purchase seems some people can't. I thought i'd post about the BS spread around on noise and temps also linked to others saying same thing.
You are welcome to the grey screen of death. Tesselation on Unigine from normal to extreme does bring more power out lol. It is a benchmark to bring out DX11 performance not heat, measuring heat running that benchmark is not an issues.
About the 10% I linked reputable websites before. More than that. We know it is better than 10% on the whole. Anandtech, wins 8/10 games as eg.
Look I am playing games at great FPS with no issues on powerdraw or temps or acoustic noise, end of story, fastest that 5870 end of story. Great I am not worried about price, still a fact though in performance. My choice and decision. I am just posting real life experiences. It is ok to disagree.
Like I said, furmark is only to test cards at max load. Your unigine analogue is as stupid as ranking cpu speeds with superpi results.
Loudness is a subjective term, your computer would sound horribly loud for people. Fact seem to be, as you can yourself see too, that 480 needs an expensive and loud case to work properly.
You have told us your setup and opinions already many times, no need to tell them again every time. We are dealing with facts here, which professional reviews bring out the best.
Professional reviews would use a newer case in my opinion. I've put my card in a Nine Hundred and see similar temps.
Your professional site uses unigine too, obviously it is important for inclusion, but fails to run extreme tesselation which shows a poorer performance of ATI cards and is considered a benchmark for DX11 features.
You review site states that sound was at acceptable levels too.
For fun here is my unigine test with just normal and extreme tesselation under same stats as above with an 11% OC on the 480.
Normal:
Extreme Tesselation:
On normal we can see I have a higher than average FPS than the 5970 and minimum FPS too. On extreme setting my Max FPS is still good.
I read the review and throughtout all of it the site likes to compare to an OC 5870 which is fair but doesn't bother to put any OC 480 figures it the charts. It also does read a little bias that way, maybe it is just me or google translator.
Regardless as more and more DX 11 games come out I feel comfortable with my purchase as we see more developers exploiting full DX11 features.
A professional website like the one you use might want to use the proper latest Nvidia drivers like other well known sites and not the old one ".17 beta drivers"
Guess the icing on the cake is this comment "Almost 600 euro-priced ATI Radeon HD 5970's availability in Finland is still non-existent and the stock levels appear red." "Lähes 600 euron hintaisen ATI Radeon HD 5970:n saatavuus Suomesta on edelleen olematon ja varastosaldot näyttävät punaista" Did I get that right?
Seems like you can not buy a 5970 there either and if you can it is priced / converted at $825 Canadian which is far too much than the $530 Canadian I payed for the 480 for the minimal advantage that card offers.
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
These are the temps with nzxt hush silent case.
Many other reviews also indicate very similar temps.
You can also stop nagging about canadian prices, it's well seen that the price are very different elsewhere.
Your chart doesn't show fan speed? and that is a bit of a cheap case.
What I am saying is real world experience on my desk not on a test bench.
So in your books fermi needs an expensive case so you can use it?
No, didn't say that. One would assume if you are spending that much money on a GPU you would have a case with decent airflow. It is a 3 yr old case. You have to re-aarange the bays on that case to fit a 5970.
As noted those all one has to do is bump up the 480 fan speed and things are fine. That chart shows no fan speed setting for any card it could be anything.
In those videos I linked you can hear the fan speed. The last one the guy even says 5870 is louder and he has video to prove it.
You shouldn't need to buy expensive case just to for extremely hot graphic card. The fan speeds are stock on that review.
You do not need to, that 5970 is 31 cm long the longest card ever made and is not designed for that case.
The acoustic levels on default fan speed settings are important as well as at load.
I as well as many other posted GTX 480 owners have stated often that by cranking the fan speed % up you can not hear the difference.
Temps and heat are great. It is not extremely hot. Is furmark running 24/7 for you? How many people you think just run it? It is not the same as playing a game. You think an 8degree C difference on your chart from 105 to 97 with ATI 5970 > 480 is massive?
Performance is better.
With a simple fan change setting temps are non issue with GTX 480 and neither are ascoustic levels.
Sorry to disappoint. Proof is infront of me.
You are totally missing the point. Apparently you don't know what problems such temps cause.
You are changing your mind all the time. First you compare it to 5870 and then again to 5970, please, make up your mind to which are you comparing it to and messing up the discussion.
All those measures are made in same case, so they are comparable.
Many people want silent computers, from the pic you provided I can instantly tell your computer is not silent, not even near. It's not very good reputation for fermi, if you need to buy a big and noisy case just to keep the temps down in safe numbers.
You brought the chart out with the cards on it to compare first. You changed the comparisons up. You questioned the Unigine test but felt ok to put up furmark ones? You seem to switch the discussion around, you want to focus on heat and noise. I showed my temps are normal and fine. You then want to talk performance, I compared and now your back to noise again.
My PC is not louder that it's previous inhabitants of 2xGTX 285. I think the PC is quite quiet personally. I have also linked to people who have owned and shown videos where people can judge for themselves the acoustic volume comparisons between the 5870 and the GTX 480.
Whatever, I got a GTX 480 it performs awesome in games, it is quiet and not as hot as people (not owners) like the make out. My card never gets above 85c in any game I play. The temp inside my case is always 26-30c never higher.
If I benchmark and put the fan on 100% then yes it is LOUD but that is not a real life situation for me.
I can deal with my purchase seems some people can't. I thought i'd post about the BS spread around on noise and temps also linked to others saying same thing.
You are welcome to the grey screen of death. Tesselation on Unigine from normal to extreme does bring more power out lol. It is a benchmark to bring out DX11 performance not heat, measuring heat running that benchmark is not an issues.
About the 10% I linked reputable websites before. More than that. We know it is better than 10% on the whole. Anandtech, wins 8/10 games as eg.
Look I am playing games at great FPS with no issues on powerdraw or temps or acoustic noise, end of story, fastest that 5870 end of story. Great I am not worried about price, still a fact though in performance. My choice and decision. I am just posting real life experiences. It is ok to disagree.
Like I said, furmark is only to test cards at max load. Your unigine analogue is as stupid as ranking cpu speeds with superpi results.
Loudness is a subjective term, your computer would sound horribly loud for people. Fact seem to be, as you can yourself see too, that 480 needs an expensive and loud case to work properly.
You have told us your setup and opinions already many times, no need to tell them again every time. We are dealing with facts here, which professional reviews bring out the best.
Professional reviews would use a newer case in my opinion. I've put my card in a Nine Hundred and see similar temps.
Your professional site uses unigine too, obviously it is important for inclusion, but fails to run extreme tesselation which shows a poorer performance of ATI cards and is considered a benchmark for DX11 features.
You review site states that sound was at acceptable levels too.
For fun here is my unigine test with just normal and extreme tesselation under same stats as above with an 11% OC on the 480.
On normal we can see I have a higher than average FPS than the 5970 and minimum FPS too. On extreme setting my Max FPS is still good.
I read the review and throughtout all of it the site likes to compare to an OC 5870 which is fair but doesn't bother to put any OC 480 figures it the charts. It also does read a little bias that way, maybe it is just me or google translator.
Regardless as more and more DX 11 games come out I feel comfortable with my purchase as we see more developers exploiting full DX11 features.
A professional website like the one you use might want to use the proper latest Nvidia drivers like other well known sites and not the old one ".17 beta drivers"
Guess the icing on the cake is this comment "Almost 600 euro-priced ATI Radeon HD 5970's availability in Finland is still non-existent and the stock levels appear red." "Lähes 600 euron hintaisen ATI Radeon HD 5970:n saatavuus Suomesta on edelleen olematon ja varastosaldot näyttävät punaista" Did I get that right?
Seems like you can not buy a 5970 there either and if you can it is priced / converted at $825 Canadian which is far too much than the $530 Canadian I payed for the 480 for the minimal advantage that card offers.
I deny at any point the tesselation speed of 480. But buying a card for gaming using tesselation speed as an argument is not wise.
Many sites use unigine, cause it's pretty much the only benchmark to see tesselation speeds.
That review is old, they used newest drivers available at that moment. OC results are at the last page afaik.
And you got the translation right. 5970 is a marginal product, not very many come to Finland on the first place. Same goes for other smaller countries. 5k series has also been slightly available, thanks to enormous worldwide demand. It's much better in middle Europe atm.
Prices are also much higher in small countries, in here we call this a "Finland addition". Cheapest 5970 in Germany costs 518€.
And if we are gonna use game test we will see that the 5970 will beat the gtx 480 most of the time. and that is why some here are using a benchmark program as a argument.
And if we are gonna use game test we will see that the 5970 will beat the gtx 480 most of the time. and that is why some here are using a benchmark program as a argument.
5970 is much faster than 480, like 30-40%. You don't even need to discuss about this cause it's so clear.
And if we are gonna use game test we will see that the 5970 will beat the gtx 480 most of the time. and that is why some here are using a benchmark program as a argument.
5970 is much faster than 480, like 30-40%. You don't even need to discuss about this cause it's so clear.
I dont know exact numbers, most hardware sites are getting so diffrent, but its the fastest gfx now. And it bugs me that the nvidia PR has done such a great work with all their "480 gtx is the fastest 1 gpu card ever!", as it matter
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by astrob0y
Originally posted by dfan
Originally posted by astrob0y
And if we are gonna use game test we will see that the 5970 will beat the gtx 480 most of the time. and that is why some here are using a benchmark program as a argument.
5970 is much faster than 480, like 30-40%. You don't even need to discuss about this cause it's so clear.
I dont know exact numbers, most hardware sites are getting so diffrent, but its the fastest gfx now. And it bugs me that the nvidia PR has done such a great work with all their "480 gtx is the fastest 1 gpu card ever!", as it matter
I really don't know why it bugs you as ATI said the same thing when the 5870 launched. There are many benefits to having a fast single card over a dual card. PR is PR the same from both camps.
I think the HD5870 is a fair comparison to the GTX480 since when we talk about GPU, we are talking about the chip not the card. The GTX 480 is a faster GPU, but do you want to buy onto all those problems? It uses 40% more transistors then the HD5870 but can't muster half that amount in a performance lead. There is some drop in performance when increasing transistors because of the transistors used for dealing with the number, but that is a starkly poor use of transistors. On the other hand the jump from the HD4870 1 billion transistors, to the HD5870 2 billion transistors was a 60~80% increase in performance.
I definetly would not want to be an early adopter for such a card. Its hotter, it consumes more power, and it only has a marginal increase in performance. Ontop of this the GF100 design is at the limits of electricity advised by PCI-e standards. Chances are there will be no dual GPU equivalent of this particular chip. Maybe in revision 2 of the GTX580, but definetly not before September when nVidia will be competing with a 4 billion transistor ATI chip.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Cleffy
I think the HD5870 is a fair comparison to the GTX480 since when we talk about GPU, we are talking about the chip not the card. The GTX 480 is a faster GPU, but do you want to buy onto all those problems? It uses 40% more transistors then the HD5870 but can't muster half that amount in a performance lead. There is some drop in performance when increasing transistors because of the transistors used for dealing with the number, but that is a starkly poor use of transistors. On the other hand the jump from the HD4870 1 billion transistors, to the HD5870 2 billion transistors was a 60~80% increase in performance.
I definetly would not want to be an early adopter for such a card. Its hotter, it consumes more power, and it only has a marginal increase in performance. Ontop of this the GF100 design is at the limits of electricity advised by PCI-e standards. Chances are there will be no dual GPU equivalent of this particular chip. Maybe in revision 2 of the GTX580, but definetly not before September when nVidia will be competing with a 4 billion transistor ATI chip.
I can buy into some of what your saying but I think September for a new chip from ATI is wishful thinking
Do you know what the jump is from GTX 280 to GTX 480 in performance? It is about the same over previous generations as with ATI but you forgot to mention that.
TDP of less than 300w for the card is the spec and it falls into that. It goes over when OC just like most high end cards do or if you look at total system draw.
I am amazed to see the premise of the card being loud still put out there, in over the top fashion/ exagggeration. Take a gander at these from anandtech and hexus it really is not that loud and really is quite good for temps. Noise only with fan speed at 100% is pretty loud let me tell you :P
Just with that said, if you came from a gtx 280/5 it offers massive improvement.
Can you really tell the difference in 5 decibels?
9 watts more idle power consumption for 1 billion more transistors than a 5870 is not bad.
So here over previous generation GTX 285 I owned CRYSIS at load on my GTX 480 new card is pulling 60 W more but delivering up to 50% more performance. That is a trade off I can live with, still better than a 4870x2 which I also own too
And looking at perfomance / heat / noice I wont get a fermi card.. Compared to ATI.
Seriously. Nearly 100 degrees? thats crazy. And looking at benchmarks / peoples experiences, 5870 is close up at 480, few games better. And its much cheaper. and for same price of a 5970 you can get a 480.. but the 5970 pwns 480 so much. : )
overblown comments. No offence Izork. honestly. I have a GTX 480 the fan is quiter at felt pelt than a 5870.
My card idles at 44degrees C and with the fan set to 70% and usage at 100% hovers around 84degrees C. That is nothing to worry about at all.
In fact Fermi is cooler than the 4k series from ATI.
The fan on mine produces no more noise than an old single GTX 285 I had.
Those tests where you see 100 degrees are with the fan on stock setting, usually open case too.
Did you know in Canada and also at newegg.ca the 5970 is $200 more than a GTX 480.
For me noise and heat are non issues so purchasing decision was based off cost, performance and availability.
These are the temps with nzxt hush silent case.
Many other reviews also indicate very similar temps.
You can also stop nagging about canadian prices, it's well seen that the price are very different elsewhere.
Your chart doesn't show fan speed? and that is a bit of a cheap case.
What I am saying is real world experience on my desk not on a test bench.
So in your books fermi needs an expensive case so you can use it?
No, didn't say that. One would assume if you are spending that much money on a GPU you would have a case with decent airflow. It is a 3 yr old case. You have to re-aarange the bays on that case to fit a 5970.
As noted those all one has to do is bump up the 480 fan speed and things are fine. That chart shows no fan speed setting for any card it could be anything.
In those videos I linked you can hear the fan speed. The last one the guy even says 5870 is louder and he has video to prove it.
You shouldn't need to buy expensive case just to for extremely hot graphic card. The fan speeds are stock on that review.
You do not need to, that 5970 is 31 cm long the longest card ever made and is not designed for that case.
The acoustic levels on default fan speed settings are important as well as at load.
I as well as many other posted GTX 480 owners have stated often that by cranking the fan speed % up you can not hear the difference.
Temps and heat are great. It is not extremely hot. Is furmark running 24/7 for you? How many people you think just run it? It is not the same as playing a game. You think an 8degree C difference on your chart from 105 to 97 with ATI 5970 > 480 is massive?
Performance is better.
With a simple fan change setting temps are non issue with GTX 480 and neither are ascoustic levels.
Sorry to disappoint. Proof is infront of me.
You are totally missing the point. Apparently you don't know what problems such temps cause.
You are changing your mind all the time. First you compare it to 5870 and then again to 5970, please, make up your mind to which are you comparing it to and messing up the discussion.
All those measures are made in same case, so they are comparable.
Many people want silent computers, from the pic you provided I can instantly tell your computer is not silent, not even near. It's not very good reputation for fermi, if you need to buy a big and noisy case just to keep the temps down in safe numbers.
You brought the chart out with the cards on it to compare first. You changed the comparisons up. You questioned the Unigine test but felt ok to put up furmark ones? You seem to switch the discussion around, you want to focus on heat and noise. I showed my temps are normal and fine. You then want to talk performance, I compared and now your back to noise again.
My PC is not louder that it's previous inhabitants of 2xGTX 285. I think the PC is quite quiet personally. I have also linked to people who have owned and shown videos where people can judge for themselves the acoustic volume comparisons between the 5870 and the GTX 480.
Whatever, I got a GTX 480 it performs awesome in games, it is quiet and not as hot as people (not owners) like the make out. My card never gets above 85c in any game I play. The temp inside my case is always 26-30c never higher.
If I benchmark and put the fan on 100% then yes it is LOUD but that is not a real life situation for me.
I can deal with my purchase seems some people can't. I thought i'd post about the BS spread around on noise and temps also linked to others saying same thing.
You are welcome to the grey screen of death. Tesselation on Unigine from normal to extreme does bring more power out lol. It is a benchmark to bring out DX11 performance not heat, measuring heat running that benchmark is not an issues.
About the 10% I linked reputable websites before. More than that. We know it is better than 10% on the whole. Anandtech, wins 8/10 games as eg.
Look I am playing games at great FPS with no issues on powerdraw or temps or acoustic noise, end of story, fastest that 5870 end of story. Great I am not worried about price, still a fact though in performance. My choice and decision. I am just posting real life experiences. It is ok to disagree.
Like I said, furmark is only to test cards at max load. Your unigine analogue is as stupid as ranking cpu speeds with superpi results.
Loudness is a subjective term, your computer would sound horribly loud for people. Fact seem to be, as you can yourself see too, that 480 needs an expensive and loud case to work properly.
You have told us your setup and opinions already many times, no need to tell them again every time. We are dealing with facts here, which professional reviews bring out the best.
Professional reviews would use a newer case in my opinion. I've put my card in a Nine Hundred and see similar temps.
Your professional site uses unigine too, obviously it is important for inclusion, but fails to run extreme tesselation which shows a poorer performance of ATI cards and is considered a benchmark for DX11 features.
You review site states that sound was at acceptable levels too.
For fun here is my unigine test with just normal and extreme tesselation under same stats as above with an 11% OC on the 480.
On normal we can see I have a higher than average FPS than the 5970 and minimum FPS too. On extreme setting my Max FPS is still good.
I read the review and throughtout all of it the site likes to compare to an OC 5870 which is fair but doesn't bother to put any OC 480 figures it the charts. It also does read a little bias that way, maybe it is just me or google translator.
Regardless as more and more DX 11 games come out I feel comfortable with my purchase as we see more developers exploiting full DX11 features.
A professional website like the one you use might want to use the proper latest Nvidia drivers like other well known sites and not the old one ".17 beta drivers"
Guess the icing on the cake is this comment "Almost 600 euro-priced ATI Radeon HD 5970's availability in Finland is still non-existent and the stock levels appear red." "Lähes 600 euron hintaisen ATI Radeon HD 5970:n saatavuus Suomesta on edelleen olematon ja varastosaldot näyttävät punaista" Did I get that right?
Seems like you can not buy a 5970 there either and if you can it is priced / converted at $825 Canadian which is far too much than the $530 Canadian I payed for the 480 for the minimal advantage that card offers.
I deny at any point the tesselation speed of 480. But buying a card for gaming using tesselation speed as an argument is not wise.
Many sites use unigine, cause it's pretty much the only benchmark to see tesselation speeds.
That review is old, they used newest drivers available at that moment. OC results are at the last page afaik.
And you got the translation right. 5970 is a marginal product, not very many come to Finland on the first place. Same goes for other smaller countries. 5k series has also been slightly available, thanks to enormous worldwide demand. It's much better in middle Europe atm.
Prices are also much higher in small countries, in here we call this a "Finland addition". Cheapest 5970 in Germany costs 518€.
dude are you serious?its avail online and they ship with whatever transport is avail in your country but i bet ups does deliver in your country if not at your own house lol!
I hate to quote blocks, but you read the chart wrong. It consumes 9 more watts at idle then two 5870 in crossfire. I think the single GPU solution is currently the best until the interconnect on dual GPUs is fixed to a standard were it is a near 200% performance increase natively without the need for a game to have special drivers. I still think my comparison between the HD5870 and the GTX480 is fair. You are talking about a card released 6 months later with 40% more transistors that gets 10~20% more performance at far greater power draws that runs hotter. Especially when they have to fix the heat and power issues in revision 2 which won't happen until September and have to compete with the 4 billion transistor HD6xxx series. I think September is a fair estimate considering AMD releases its new video cards in September and they are currently 2 months ahead of schedule.
mm!why would ati care about nvidia ?lets assume all the wish of nvidia lover come true and it does beat the 5870
(i ignore all post comparing it to 5970 since they arent and wont be there for a long while and not for the price of ati )
so if it does beat 5870 how much work does it take from ati to beat 5870 honestly they had 9 month without competition
they had 9 month of very high yield waffer .they made record amount of money .
so everybody is thinking that because nvidia finally release what they promissed in august ati is finished because they havent released new card .
they dont need to!those ati 5xxx serie can be push way harder then they are now .once they find their freaking software
mobo,tweak setting they can push them a lot more the issue is themselves.why havent ati adopted .net4 yet
the thing is they dont need to they can stand still do nothing till october and keep polishing whatever their maniac have been cooking up or at the other end whatever the software division has been polishing.ati isnt the top dog by random luck
they dont get thos insane waffer yield by prayer lol .they are the one to beat because they work at it.
im glad nvidia finally was able to make a card to compete against the single card of ati .but even if nvidia gained 20 % ahead
of ati it would still mean nothing ati can afford to wait they have nothing to prove and all to gain .
when they do release their new top of the line i want ati to shock and aw nvidia .till then i do hope they just ignore nvidia and concentrate on ati real challenger (INTEL)
do you honestly believe intel is standing still and letting the train pass them by .lol
intel is on the 25 nm process already so they dont shrink at this pace for no reason .
when intel does release graphic asparatus i do hope ati used those months well ,because i bet intel DID WORK VERY HARD TO BE THE BEST ON THE PLANET!
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Cleffy
I hate to quote blocks, but you read the chart wrong. It consumes 9 more watts at idle then two 5870 in crossfire. I think the single GPU solution is currently the best until the interconnect on dual GPUs is fixed to a standard were it is a near 200% performance increase natively without the need for a game to have special drivers. I still think my comparison between the HD5870 and the GTX480 is fair. You are talking about a card released 6 months later with 40% more transistors that gets 10~20% more performance at far greater power draws that runs hotter. Especially when they have to fix the heat and power issues in revision 2 which won't happen until September and have to compete with the 4 billion transistor HD6xxx series. I think September is a fair estimate considering AMD releases its new video cards in September and they are currently 2 months ahead of schedule.
You are right, I but I messed up the 9 watts more came from comparing the 470. Sorry mate.
You are absolutely fair, but about the next generation, is not ATI stuck at 40nm for the refresh. This is what I read around the interwebs. At that size with 4bil transistors won't that kick some heat out. You see the design concepts from 4k series to 5k series are not that different as from Nvda's 200 series to 400 series. The cycle will just repeat itself. New card comes out hotter and draws more power but for what price and what performance increases.
"Globalfoundries is projected to start making commercial chips at 28nm node sometime in 2011, presumably early in the year. However, this does not mean that ATI will be ready with 28nm graphics processing units early next year."
Either way looking forward to what comes, just that I think it is quite a ways off yet.
Might be true though that they are going to release on 40nm and a different design to match the larger transistor.
Yes, but GF is having problems with their 28nm process, as in its nowhere near viable at the moment. ATI likely has a backup plan in a hybrid Northern Islands / Evergreen chip built on 40nm because of this.
I really don't know why it bugs you as ATI said the same thing when the 5870 launched. There are many benefits to having a fast single card over a dual card. PR is PR the same from both camps.
Pr is pr and its true it comes from both camps. The thing that bugs me is that how well it works on us consuments. Nvidia is sending out a press realse to the reviewers how exicted they are to be given them the FASTEST and BEST single gpu graphic card. The reviwers are swallowing it and writes that in their review and that afflicts the consumer.
And it bugs me that we are now talking about gfx 487 to be the fastest gfx card when it isnt.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by astrob0y
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
I really don't know why it bugs you as ATI said the same thing when the 5870 launched. There are many benefits to having a fast single card over a dual card. PR is PR the same from both camps.
Pr is pr and its true it comes from both camps. The thing that bugs me is that how well it works on us consuments. Nvidia is sending out a press realse to the reviewers how exicted they are to be given them the FASTEST and BEST single gpu graphic card. The reviwers are swallowing it and writes that in their review and that afflicts the consumer.
And it bugs me that we are now talking about gfx 487 to be the fastest gfx card when it isnt.
Actually again NVIDIA's executives and marketing department wouldn't be doing their job if they said otherwise.
"The Radeon HD 5870 is by far the fastest single GPU graphics card that we have ever benchmarked and it is the real deal."
"The Radeon HD 5870 we've evaluated here offered excellent performance that decimated any other single GPU with top notch image quality. It also has the most extensive feature set of any other GPU, with support for ATI Eyefinity, an enhanced UVD 2 engine, and support for DirectX 11."
"The new AMD Radeon HD 5870 is the fastest single-GPU graphics card you can purchase today and will likely remain that way through at least the end of the year."
"Without question, ATI once again wears the single-GPU performance crown, its Radeon HD 5870 effectively blending solid performance in today’s titles with the experience-oriented extras that’ll allow developers to create tomorrow’s games."
Four out of five quotes hand-picked by AMD agree: AMD loved to see the Radeon 5870 declared the fastest single GPU card available. There is nothing wrong with using the terms "fastest GPU available" or "highest minimum framerate".
NVIDIA did have the "fastest ________ stuff" and just the plain old "fastest stuff" when AMD was lagging with 2000 series and 3000 series, and was still a bit short on performance in the 4000 series. Finally get it right ahead of time 4th time lucky with the 5k series, of course they will want to promote it as best as possible being AMD and debt ridden. Your beef should be with ATI or directly at all the websites that coined the phrase to begin with.
Comments
FFS, did you even read what I wrote? Furmark solely exists to bring out the max temperatures which cards can achieve on load.
I didn't say games do not use tessellation. But the tesselation performance is next to meaningless cause of the minor usage when looking at the total image draw power.
You are making ridiculous conclusion based on availability in single store.
The power bill is totally up to personal preference, some people might not care about those and some people do.
That claim about better drivers from nvidia is absolute garbage. You made that up totally in your own head. Just look at highest blue screen causes in vista for example, nvdia is above everything else.
Generally, it's about 10%. Any source for absurd claim?
and the 5970 is a single card, but with a diffrent solution. If you want to have sub categories then you have to have in mind that the 480 gtx has 0.5 gb more graphic memory than the 5870- that is not fair either you know
I could see this last generation as well. the ATI fanboys said that the 4870x2 was the fastest and greatest card while the nvidia fanboys said it didnt count becuse it had two gpu´s. When the 295 gtx came and took the crown the ATI boys said it didnt count becuse it had two gpus. Guess what the Nvidia gang said
One card is one card. What they are putting on to it dosent matter in my book. Give me a good card and I will buy it. The gtx 480 is not a good card but v.2 will probably be a awsome card
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
You brought the chart out with the cards on it to compare first. You changed the comparisons up. You questioned the Unigine test but felt ok to put up furmark ones? You seem to switch the discussion around, you want to focus on heat and noise. I showed my temps are normal and fine. You then want to talk performance, I compared and now your back to noise again.
My PC is not louder that it's previous inhabitants of 2xGTX 285. I think the PC is quite quiet personally. I have also linked to people who have owned and shown videos where people can judge for themselves the acoustic volume comparisons between the 5870 and the GTX 480.
Whatever, I got a GTX 480 it performs awesome in games, it is quiet and not as hot as people (not owners) like the make out. My card never gets above 85c in any game I play. The temp inside my case is always 26-30c never higher.
If I benchmark and put the fan on 100% then yes it is LOUD but that is not a real life situation for me.
I can deal with my purchase seems some people can't. I thought i'd post about the BS spread around on noise and temps also linked to others saying same thing.
You are welcome to the grey screen of death. Tesselation on Unigine from normal to extreme does bring more power out lol. It is a benchmark to bring out DX11 performance not heat, measuring heat running that benchmark is not an issues.
About the 10% I linked reputable websites before. More than that. We know it is better than 10% on the whole. Anandtech, wins 8/10 games as eg.
Look I am playing games at great FPS with no issues on powerdraw or temps or acoustic noise, end of story, fastest that 5870 end of story. Great I am not worried about price, still a fact though in performance. My choice and decision. I am just posting real life experiences. It is ok to disagree.
there in stock over @ scan.co.uk. Personally though,not worth it. ATI bandwagon for now.
Edit: lol now theres only 1 brand of 470 left.
I'm glad you got the screen shots out of your system. I never said the the GTX 480 was a bad card. I'm sure it will get better with time. Its just not enough of an increase in performance yet for me to justify dumping my 5870 to spend another $500 or for me to recommend it to someone else. I really didn't mention the 5970 at all because I don't have one and will not post speculation about it. My 5870 blows everything away that I put it against. 100FPS on average or more. The human eye at the most can see 30 FPS so anything above that is wasted and barely noticed. I'm glad you are happy with your purchase and in the end that is what matters most.
I mentioned the electric bill because it does matter to me and that is why I put it in there as a value with energy. You can't say energy consumption as something you look at and not consider the electric bill. My lights stay off all day until the night time and I have energy saving bulbs. I have not had to pay over $100 for electricity for a while now and that is more money in my pocket that I can put towards important things. I have a decent system I think. Core i7 920, triple channel 6gb DD3 1600, Radeoon 5870, 850W PSU, Cooler master HAF 933 FT case. I'm happy with that and will be for quite some time. Benchmark videos from Nvidia still show a very small increase in some areas over the 5870. I'm happy with that. Any more talk on this is just to show...well nothing really
. Faster speeds transfering smaller bits of informaiton or slower speeds transferring largers bits of information. Whatever as long as my game works when I am on cool down mode after work I'm good.
I can totally agree with you and see where you are coming from. I just chose to spend a little more. The main game I play is AoC and in that game with everything cranked up in DX10 with a 4870x2 (own) or GTX 285 (own) you can sometimes get below 30 FPS in some situations because of how demanding it can be. Friends have 5870 and I have seen the figures for it which are great, I still wanted a bit more and was the kicker for my purchase. Could of easily been a 5970 if could of found one. I can appreciate your purchase decision and respect that, it is a good choice. I just wanted to chime in and say that I have great performance too, and that temperatures and power draw are not as excessive and some web chat makes out compared to my real life experiences for anyone reading or considering it. I think the 5870 and GTX 480 are both great purchases.
Like I said, furmark is only to test cards at max load. Your unigine analogue is as stupid as ranking cpu speeds with superpi results.
Loudness is a subjective term, your computer would sound horribly loud for people. Fact seem to be, as you can yourself see too, that 480 needs an expensive and loud case to work properly.
You have told us your setup and opinions already many times, no need to tell them again every time. We are dealing with facts here, which professional reviews bring out the best.
Professional reviews would use a newer case in my opinion. I've put my card in a Nine Hundred and see similar temps.
Your professional site uses unigine too, obviously it is important for inclusion, but fails to run extreme tesselation which shows a poorer performance of ATI cards and is considered a benchmark for DX11 features.
You review site states that sound was at acceptable levels too.
For fun here is my unigine test with just normal and extreme tesselation under same stats as above with an 11% OC on the 480.
Normal:
Extreme Tesselation:
On normal we can see I have a higher than average FPS than the 5970 and minimum FPS too. On extreme setting my Max FPS is still good.
I read the review and throughtout all of it the site likes to compare to an OC 5870 which is fair but doesn't bother to put any OC 480 figures it the charts. It also does read a little bias that way, maybe it is just me or google translator.
Regardless as more and more DX 11 games come out I feel comfortable with my purchase as we see more developers exploiting full DX11 features.
A professional website like the one you use might want to use the proper latest Nvidia drivers like other well known sites and not the old one ".17 beta drivers"
Guess the icing on the cake is this comment "Almost 600 euro-priced ATI Radeon HD 5970's availability in Finland is still non-existent and the stock levels appear red." "Lähes 600 euron hintaisen ATI Radeon HD 5970:n saatavuus Suomesta on edelleen olematon ja varastosaldot näyttävät punaista" Did I get that right?
Seems like you can not buy a 5970 there either and if you can it is priced / converted at $825 Canadian which is far too much than the $530 Canadian I payed for the 480 for the minimal advantage that card offers.
just getting the new driver from ati mobo gained me 38 mb per sec for my hard drive alone lol
these as been compered a lot by better men and they all comme to the same conclusion
after 10 month of work nvidia is still behind ati .
remember this too!if for any reason nvidia did better ati !they cant yell it at anyone why!
ati 5xxxx serie is 10 month old lol
i bet ati is ready but why would they .i sure hope ati concentrate on polishing their driver and all instead
of wanting to show off !!bring in the software first .
and as well all saw tesselation is 5 years too early so dont bother with it no game use it
bring up performance instead
I deny at any point the tesselation speed of 480. But buying a card for gaming using tesselation speed as an argument is not wise.
Many sites use unigine, cause it's pretty much the only benchmark to see tesselation speeds.
That review is old, they used newest drivers available at that moment. OC results are at the last page afaik.
And you got the translation right. 5970 is a marginal product, not very many come to Finland on the first place. Same goes for other smaller countries. 5k series has also been slightly available, thanks to enormous worldwide demand. It's much better in middle Europe atm.
Prices are also much higher in small countries, in here we call this a "Finland addition". Cheapest 5970 in Germany costs 518€.
And if we are gonna use game test we will see that the 5970 will beat the gtx 480 most of the time. and that is why some here are using a benchmark program as a argument.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
5970 is much faster than 480, like 30-40%. You don't even need to discuss about this cause it's so clear.
I dont know exact numbers, most hardware sites are getting so diffrent, but its the fastest gfx now. And it bugs me that the nvidia PR has done such a great work with all their "480 gtx is the fastest 1 gpu card ever!", as it matter
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
I really don't know why it bugs you as ATI said the same thing when the 5870 launched. There are many benefits to having a fast single card over a dual card. PR is PR the same from both camps.
I think the HD5870 is a fair comparison to the GTX480 since when we talk about GPU, we are talking about the chip not the card. The GTX 480 is a faster GPU, but do you want to buy onto all those problems? It uses 40% more transistors then the HD5870 but can't muster half that amount in a performance lead. There is some drop in performance when increasing transistors because of the transistors used for dealing with the number, but that is a starkly poor use of transistors. On the other hand the jump from the HD4870 1 billion transistors, to the HD5870 2 billion transistors was a 60~80% increase in performance.
I definetly would not want to be an early adopter for such a card. Its hotter, it consumes more power, and it only has a marginal increase in performance. Ontop of this the GF100 design is at the limits of electricity advised by PCI-e standards. Chances are there will be no dual GPU equivalent of this particular chip. Maybe in revision 2 of the GTX580, but definetly not before September when nVidia will be competing with a 4 billion transistor ATI chip.
I can buy into some of what your saying but I think September for a new chip from ATI is wishful thinking
Do you know what the jump is from GTX 280 to GTX 480 in performance? It is about the same over previous generations as with ATI but you forgot to mention that.
TDP of less than 300w for the card is the spec and it falls into that. It goes over when OC just like most high end cards do or if you look at total system draw.
I am amazed to see the premise of the card being loud still put out there, in over the top fashion/ exagggeration. Take a gander at these from anandtech and hexus it really is not that loud and really is quite good for temps. Noise only with fan speed at 100% is pretty loud let me tell you :P
Just with that said, if you came from a gtx 280/5 it offers massive improvement.
Can you really tell the difference in 5 decibels?
9 watts more idle power consumption for 1 billion more transistors than a 5870 is not bad.
Hexus reports: http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/amd/5850XF/28.png
So here over previous generation GTX 285 I owned CRYSIS at load on my GTX 480 new card is pulling 60 W more but delivering up to 50% more performance. That is a trade off I can live with, still better than a 4870x2 which I also own too
dude are you serious?its avail online and they ship with whatever transport is avail in your country but i bet ups does deliver in your country if not at your own house lol!
I hate to quote blocks, but you read the chart wrong. It consumes 9 more watts at idle then two 5870 in crossfire. I think the single GPU solution is currently the best until the interconnect on dual GPUs is fixed to a standard were it is a near 200% performance increase natively without the need for a game to have special drivers. I still think my comparison between the HD5870 and the GTX480 is fair. You are talking about a card released 6 months later with 40% more transistors that gets 10~20% more performance at far greater power draws that runs hotter. Especially when they have to fix the heat and power issues in revision 2 which won't happen until September and have to compete with the 4 billion transistor HD6xxx series. I think September is a fair estimate considering AMD releases its new video cards in September and they are currently 2 months ahead of schedule.
mm!why would ati care about nvidia ?lets assume all the wish of nvidia lover come true and it does beat the 5870
(i ignore all post comparing it to 5970 since they arent and wont be there for a long while and not for the price of ati )
so if it does beat 5870 how much work does it take from ati to beat 5870 honestly they had 9 month without competition
they had 9 month of very high yield waffer .they made record amount of money .
so everybody is thinking that because nvidia finally release what they promissed in august ati is finished because they havent released new card .
they dont need to!those ati 5xxx serie can be push way harder then they are now .once they find their freaking software
mobo,tweak setting they can push them a lot more the issue is themselves.why havent ati adopted .net4 yet
the thing is they dont need to they can stand still do nothing till october and keep polishing whatever their maniac have been cooking up or at the other end whatever the software division has been polishing.ati isnt the top dog by random luck
they dont get thos insane waffer yield by prayer lol .they are the one to beat because they work at it.
im glad nvidia finally was able to make a card to compete against the single card of ati .but even if nvidia gained 20 % ahead
of ati it would still mean nothing ati can afford to wait they have nothing to prove and all to gain .
when they do release their new top of the line i want ati to shock and aw nvidia .till then i do hope they just ignore nvidia and concentrate on ati real challenger (INTEL)
do you honestly believe intel is standing still and letting the train pass them by .lol
intel is on the 25 nm process already so they dont shrink at this pace for no reason .
when intel does release graphic asparatus i do hope ati used those months well ,because i bet intel DID WORK VERY HARD TO BE THE BEST ON THE PLANET!
You are right, I but I messed up the 9 watts more came from comparing the 470. Sorry mate.
You are absolutely fair, but about the next generation, is not ATI stuck at 40nm for the refresh. This is what I read around the interwebs. At that size with 4bil transistors won't that kick some heat out. You see the design concepts from 4k series to 5k series are not that different as from Nvda's 200 series to 400 series. The cycle will just repeat itself. New card comes out hotter and draws more power but for what price and what performance increases.
AMD moving Radeon to Global Foundries in 2010 along with a shift to 28nm in 2nd quarter 2010.
Might be true though that they are going to release on 40nm and a different design to match the larger transistor.
I read this: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20100419141543_ATI_to_Build_28nm_Graphics_Chips_at_Globalfoundries.html
"Globalfoundries is projected to start making commercial chips at 28nm node sometime in 2011, presumably early in the year. However, this does not mean that ATI will be ready with 28nm graphics processing units early next year."
Either way looking forward to what comes, just that I think it is quite a ways off yet.
Yes, but GF is having problems with their 28nm process, as in its nowhere near viable at the moment. ATI likely has a backup plan in a hybrid Northern Islands / Evergreen chip built on 40nm because of this.
Pr is pr and its true it comes from both camps. The thing that bugs me is that how well it works on us consuments. Nvidia is sending out a press realse to the reviewers how exicted they are to be given them the FASTEST and BEST single gpu graphic card. The reviwers are swallowing it and writes that in their review and that afflicts the consumer.
And it bugs me that we are now talking about gfx 487 to be the fastest gfx card when it isnt.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
Actually again NVIDIA's executives and marketing department wouldn't be doing their job if they said otherwise.
Here are the quotes AMD prefers:
"The Radeon HD 5870 is by far the fastest single GPU graphics card that we have ever benchmarked and it is the real deal."
"The Radeon HD 5870 we've evaluated here offered excellent performance that decimated any other single GPU with top notch image quality. It also has the most extensive feature set of any other GPU, with support for ATI Eyefinity, an enhanced UVD 2 engine, and support for DirectX 11."
"The new AMD Radeon HD 5870 is the fastest single-GPU graphics card you can purchase today and will likely remain that way through at least the end of the year."
"Without question, ATI once again wears the single-GPU performance crown, its Radeon HD 5870 effectively blending solid performance in today’s titles with the experience-oriented extras that’ll allow developers to create tomorrow’s games."
Four out of five quotes hand-picked by AMD agree: AMD loved to see the Radeon 5870 declared the fastest single GPU card available. There is nothing wrong with using the terms "fastest GPU available" or "highest minimum framerate".
NVIDIA did have the "fastest ________ stuff" and just the plain old "fastest stuff" when AMD was lagging with 2000 series and 3000 series, and was still a bit short on performance in the 4000 series. Finally get it right ahead of time 4th time lucky with the 5k series, of course they will want to promote it as best as possible being AMD and debt ridden. Your beef should be with ATI or directly at all the websites that coined the phrase to begin with.