Like I said I wanted to make it clear that Xsyon is NOT having a desync problem. Im pretty sure I left the end of my statement to say he might have been talking about MO.
Again XSYON IS NOT HAVING ANY DESYNC ISSUES.
=P
I will be posting more videos soon as I can promise. Anything you want in the video?
A game with no players doesn't have desync? OMG!! This sounds like a winner!
lol yah... if they had desync issues and lag with less than 20 players that would be awesome. they do have crashes tho and i also heard rumours that when the server crashes you lose all your items. well its their first week so i guess game will get better in few months but release next month really worries me. doesnt seem like any better than MO or DF release to me.
hopefully they wont run into lag/desync issues when they add more players. game does look interesting tho..
I am not defending the game, but here is my opinion
Mortal Online = $75 with 1 month game time
Xsyon = $40 with 2 month game time
Mortal Online = does not have a strategy on what they are doing, just throw content in randomly
Xsyon = Evolution system where content is eventually added
Mortal Online = uses the UE engine, which was not created for an huge open world MMO, was made for instance based games
Xsyon = custom created engine that can be easily modified because of the teraforming in game
Mortal Online = created by inexperienced developers that have never created a game before, just modded UE alittle
Xsyon = developers have worked on previous projects such as Roma Victor (have experience)
That is just a few differences between Mortal Online and Xsyon I could think of right now.
This the way companies do it, they look at what simular games have and what they promise and then top that. As I am a realist I will see it when it happends and not believe in promises. Because one will only get disapointed.
Xsyon looks really crappy with the character designs just like fallen earth is. Hopefully the gameplay will be good because after all its almost 50/50 gameplay and looks. Well not really only that but you know what I mean. Mechanics and addiction also play alot of the part in a game like this.
I will sure give it a go just like all the other mmo´s I tried just to add it to the list.
To start there is ONE developer,Square Enix,they do not release bugged games,but anyhoot that is another story because...
I really do not care about bugs as long as the develoepr is tryign their best to work on them,i can wait quite awhiel as long as they are not game stoppers.The occasional crash,lag whatever does not bug me,i am not a fidget hyper kid who can't relax.
All i look for is the game mechanics and how they implement them.Combat is foremost on my list,and it is very hard to please me since i played the best combat system ever in FFXI.A good way to make me happy is by using a similar sub class system however i realize most games are just not going to go tha textra mile,so i am ok with something less.I like the combat to be thinking combat ,i despise fast hyper button mashing and also despise unrealistic 500 mph sword swinging like i see in Korean games.
I love crafting,but it can't be superficial.
All i have seen from Xsyon is a few videos,looked not bad ,i do enjoy the tree cutting idea ,i miss games like Vanguard that put in that extra effort.What i didn't like in the videos was an empty world tha tmakes FE/MO/ and DF al lbad,nobody wants to roam an empty world,heck even Vanguard that had lots of content was shunned because of not enough players,well no players and no cotnent really makes it bad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Your believing what what a dev wrote about themselves? The same Dev who lied to the community on release about if we delay it then there will be twice the land size and animals...finally 6 months later what comes? A dev that constantly pormissed things that never happened? A dev whom it took months to put in anything new and never fixed the major stuff?
ok...just checking
I'll take that as a yes on the "lazy" accusation. I did not follow Roma Victor and can't say that I saw any reason to disbelieve someone when they say their product was not profitable and that someone lost interest in a project when they were not paid regularly and reliably.
P.S. the whole point of this thread was to encourage a little forbearance when Xsyon runs into the inevitable stumbling blocks inherent to this type of project (unless you are square enix as someone said), not to get into what is apparently bad blood within the former Roma Victor team.
"That being said, there are certainly things to suggest that Xsyon has a rocky road ahead of it (which I will get into in a later post) When it hits that rocky road, remember, you've been warned."
Well, it is now later. So here are a few of the rocks in the road.
2) Selling preorders before revealing any in game footage. This implies that the developers are relatively low on cash and are using preorders to help fund at least part of development. Mortal online has already gotten plenty of grief for a similar strategy, but there was alreay in game footage and IIRC the combat Beta had already given a few people an inside look. Unfortunately it also engenders a certain sense of entitlement and increases peoples frustration if and when there are delays.
3) They currently rent their domain name rather than owning it. This may mean nothing, but may also hint at their financial situation (i.e. currently unable or unwilling to commit the resources to purchasing tie domain name) Again this may mean nothing, but it does not appear to be standard practice (e.g."mortalonline.com" is registered to Mats Persson [dev], "darkfallonline.com" is registered to AventurineSA, "fallenearth.com" is registered to James Hettinger [dev], play-earthrise.com is registered to Masthead studios, quelsolaar.com [LOVE] is registered to Eskil Steenberg. I could go on but you get the idea) Again, may mean nothing, but could be indicative about their financial situatiion. http://www.domaintools.com/
4) Novel Engine. An engine that is designed in-house can be both a good and a bad thing. It does mean an intimate knowledge of the engine. It also means that if you run into problems with the code, they will be totally new problems. The people in charge of solving the problem when the design fails will be the same people who designed the failure into the code. On top of this JGD will be intentionally avoiding solutions he may have used previously (to steer ckear if the intellectual property rights from Roma Victor).
5) Very ambitious list of features. Many features are currently turned off and some of the features already turned on may work well in a single player environment but require extensive testing in a multiplayer environment (terraforming) to ensure some degree of balance and limit the ability to use it for griefing (build moats around other people's houses and whatnot)
6) Already dialing down expectations about size. They've stated expectations of having 500 people in game at launch and ramping up to 5000 people over the course of a few months. "If at any point we are getting too many players rushing to order, we will stop taking orders and limit the number of new players per month. Our goal is not to have an influx of 10,000 players, but to let the community grow slowly over the summer. What are the numbers we are looking for? I'm guessing about 500 before April 15th, building slowly to around 5000 active players by the end of summer." http://www.xsyon.com/forums/5-announcements/5958-from-the-developers#5958 This could indicate a goal of a small intimate community, but also could indicate concerns about supporting a large number of connections. The 5000 sounds awfully close to the total population of Roma Victor (5,577) http://www.roma-victor.com/community/live/player.php which could go towards intimacy or confidence about # of connections. Depending on the numbers of preorders that may mean some people not getting into the game until months after launch.
Once again, I believe this game may be great when it is released. I just think people need to have realistic expectations coming into it. It does no one any good if someone feels betrayed when the beta testing doesn't live up to their (possibly unrealistic) expectations. I don't want to see threads nitpicking what the developers post in IRC, arguing about just how (dis)honest or (un)professional the developers are when the fame fails to fully meet your expectations. When/If that happens, step back, take a break and try to appreciate it for what it is or step away and let the people who still enjoy it, enjoy it.
Sorry for the wall of text above. If anyone wants to respond to a specific issue noted above please start a new thread, as this one can easily (and is already starting to) become long and rambly. The only point of this thread is to encourage forbearance in the face the inevitable development problems.
I am not defending the game, but here is my opinion
Mortal Online = $75 with 1 month game time
Xsyon = $40 with 2 month game time
Mortal Online = does not have a strategy on what they are doing, just throw content in randomly
Xsyon = Evolution system where content is eventually added
Mortal Online = uses the UE engine, which was not created for an huge open world MMO, was made for instance based games
Xsyon = custom created engine that can be easily modified because of the teraforming in game
Mortal Online = created by inexperienced developers that have never created a game before, just modded UE alittle
Xsyon = developers have worked on previous projects such as Roma Victor (have experience)
That is just a few differences between Mortal Online and Xsyon I could think of right now.
I like to remind you Lineage2 were running on the unreal engine (different version thou)
And it have been hosting some of the biggest sieges in mmo history!
Lineage 2 uses the Unreal engine only for client side graphics, not for networking which the Atlas addition to Unreal 3 is supposed to accomplish in Mortal Online. The Xsyon developers did their own graphics and networking engine.
Like someone else has already posted. having the majority of 'features' turned off is a BIG cause for concern, especially as any one feature has the potential to break the game and any features in combination can have the same effect. Add in the limited number of players and they've really no idea how their server code and systems architecture will hold up under load.
I pre-ordered, partially to support the dev, partially to enjoy the first few months of choas as people find their feet. Some of the best times in MMOs tend to be right at the start, despite the bugs and issues. I go into this with my eyes open though.
The game's proper 'limited release' was pushed back to 15 May actually. What they are doing at the moment is letting small batches of players in for testing. The game is not 'released' as yet.
Just a couple quotes for reference. These should give a rough idea of the current state of alpha testing and development and the appropriate degree of forbearance.
Xsyon, Lead developer, April 1st
Hello Everyone!
I know you are all anxious to get into Xsyon, so here is a quick update about our plans for the week.
Tomorrow I plan to take a break from programming to answer FAQ questions so that a full FAQ list can be posted on the site.
Wednessday evening we plan to let some players in regardless of the state of the game, so at least some of you can begin to play around and get a feel for the Xsyon world.
Over the next few days I will assess our situation in terms of what still needs to be organized and completed. I'd like the pre-release players to have a decent amount of time in the game before our final wipe. I'm not sure if 2 weeks will be enough and I'd also like to take some time to plan some evolutions of the tribe system and some other features based on what's been discussed here so far.
The final wipe might be pushed forward. If it is, the 2 months free game play for pre-order players will begin after the final wipe.
For the last year I have had an offline mode of the client, which is a fancy way of saying I spent a lot of timing doing nothing but looking at terrain.
This, however, has recently changed. Last Monday I took my first plunge and logged into the real game Jooky (Lead Dev) and I have been sorting out major bugs that we have come across to prepare for the pre-orders.
Since that time I have grown quiet attached to terraforming.
I have not done anything complex yet such as crafting or fighting animals as these are currently turned off so as to test the basic functions of the game.
On top of this I have worked with Jooky as a tester on the previous game he worked for which he was the client side developer.
Videos show that basic craftting has been in for several days. The last patch put in about 12 hours ago apparently adds 90% of the crafting that is intended to be in at game launch.
I am really waiting to see how the server handles the animals once they are put in.
As is typical with indie dev teams, it's going to be another paid beta when it 'launches' and as long as those who decide to participate understand this and are willing to accept the problems that it will have, no harm, no foul.
What will be annoying is the number of people who jump on here telling us how they were robbed and want to demand their money back because its not a finished, fully featured MMORPG.
Me, I'll probably hang back and let the Dev's and early adopters flesh out the game world a bit before I give it a go.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am concerned about the terraforming apsects. Road building is very cool, but I think raising and lowering of ground will be exploited something awful.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Videos show that basic craftting has been in for several days. The last patch put in about 12 hours ago apparently adds 90% of the crafting that is intended to be in at game launch.
I am really waiting to see how the server handles the animals once they are put in.
I don't think that resource respawn will be an issue. When you cut a tree and log it you can only carry a small amount of wood (basically you can't backpack an entire tree) depending on how they have resource amounts setup in crafting, hopefully two or three trees stockpiled will carry several crafters over for a while.
Terraforming is a pretty neat feature they said they're reworking it because they never really intended to have it as a player feature, so they'll probably be reworking it to use only in certain areas (such as tribe areas letting leaders set rules as to who can use it etc.) So there aren't hundreds of roads to nowhere, dams across every river, and a player made waterfall every three feet lol.
Who really cares if all of the features are implimented or not. All that matters is whether or not the release features are executed in a way that results in fun for the player.
Most accounts at this point show a fairly uninteresting experience, but it is still early to judge. I hope they can create a fun experience - improving the combat mechanics would go a long way.
Who really cares if all of the features are implimented or not.
Really?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
lol yah... if they had desync issues and lag with less than 20 players that would be awesome. they do have crashes tho and i also heard rumours that when the server crashes you lose all your items. well its their first week so i guess game will get better in few months but release next month really worries me. doesnt seem like any better than MO or DF release to me.
hopefully they wont run into lag/desync issues when they add more players. game does look interesting tho..
This the way companies do it, they look at what simular games have and what they promise and then top that. As I am a realist I will see it when it happends and not believe in promises. Because one will only get disapointed.
Xsyon looks really crappy with the character designs just like fallen earth is. Hopefully the gameplay will be good because after all its almost 50/50 gameplay and looks. Well not really only that but you know what I mean. Mechanics and addiction also play alot of the part in a game like this.
I will sure give it a go just like all the other mmo´s I tried just to add it to the list.
To start there is ONE developer,Square Enix,they do not release bugged games,but anyhoot that is another story because...
I really do not care about bugs as long as the develoepr is tryign their best to work on them,i can wait quite awhiel as long as they are not game stoppers.The occasional crash,lag whatever does not bug me,i am not a fidget hyper kid who can't relax.
All i look for is the game mechanics and how they implement them.Combat is foremost on my list,and it is very hard to please me since i played the best combat system ever in FFXI.A good way to make me happy is by using a similar sub class system however i realize most games are just not going to go tha textra mile,so i am ok with something less.I like the combat to be thinking combat ,i despise fast hyper button mashing and also despise unrealistic 500 mph sword swinging like i see in Korean games.
I love crafting,but it can't be superficial.
All i have seen from Xsyon is a few videos,looked not bad ,i do enjoy the tree cutting idea ,i miss games like Vanguard that put in that extra effort.What i didn't like in the videos was an empty world tha tmakes FE/MO/ and DF al lbad,nobody wants to roam an empty world,heck even Vanguard that had lots of content was shunned because of not enough players,well no players and no cotnent really makes it bad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'll take that as a yes on the "lazy" accusation. I did not follow Roma Victor and can't say that I saw any reason to disbelieve someone when they say their product was not profitable and that someone lost interest in a project when they were not paid regularly and reliably.
P.S. the whole point of this thread was to encourage a little forbearance when Xsyon runs into the inevitable stumbling blocks inherent to this type of project (unless you are square enix as someone said), not to get into what is apparently bad blood within the former Roma Victor team.
All indy sandbox mmos start out bad.
You guys new here?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
"That being said, there are certainly things to suggest that Xsyon has a rocky road ahead of it (which I will get into in a later post) When it hits that rocky road, remember, you've been warned."
Well, it is now later. So here are a few of the rocks in the road.
1) Xsyon Currently Very Unstable? http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/274560/Xsyon-Currently-Very-Unstable.html Enough said there.
2) Selling preorders before revealing any in game footage. This implies that the developers are relatively low on cash and are using preorders to help fund at least part of development. Mortal online has already gotten plenty of grief for a similar strategy, but there was alreay in game footage and IIRC the combat Beta had already given a few people an inside look. Unfortunately it also engenders a certain sense of entitlement and increases peoples frustration if and when there are delays.
3) They currently rent their domain name rather than owning it. This may mean nothing, but may also hint at their financial situation (i.e. currently unable or unwilling to commit the resources to purchasing tie domain name) Again this may mean nothing, but it does not appear to be standard practice (e.g."mortalonline.com" is registered to Mats Persson [dev], "darkfallonline.com" is registered to AventurineSA, "fallenearth.com" is registered to James Hettinger [dev], play-earthrise.com is registered to Masthead studios, quelsolaar.com [LOVE] is registered to Eskil Steenberg. I could go on but you get the idea) Again, may mean nothing, but could be indicative about their financial situatiion. http://www.domaintools.com/
4) Novel Engine. An engine that is designed in-house can be both a good and a bad thing. It does mean an intimate knowledge of the engine. It also means that if you run into problems with the code, they will be totally new problems. The people in charge of solving the problem when the design fails will be the same people who designed the failure into the code. On top of this JGD will be intentionally avoiding solutions he may have used previously (to steer ckear if the intellectual property rights from Roma Victor).
5) Very ambitious list of features. Many features are currently turned off and some of the features already turned on may work well in a single player environment but require extensive testing in a multiplayer environment (terraforming) to ensure some degree of balance and limit the ability to use it for griefing (build moats around other people's houses and whatnot)
6) Already dialing down expectations about size. They've stated expectations of having 500 people in game at launch and ramping up to 5000 people over the course of a few months. "If at any point we are getting too many players rushing to order, we will stop taking orders and limit the number of new players per month. Our goal is not to have an influx of 10,000 players, but to let the community grow slowly over the summer. What are the numbers we are looking for? I'm guessing about 500 before April 15th, building slowly to around 5000 active players by the end of summer." http://www.xsyon.com/forums/5-announcements/5958-from-the-developers#5958 This could indicate a goal of a small intimate community, but also could indicate concerns about supporting a large number of connections. The 5000 sounds awfully close to the total population of Roma Victor (5,577) http://www.roma-victor.com/community/live/player.php which could go towards intimacy or confidence about # of connections. Depending on the numbers of preorders that may mean some people not getting into the game until months after launch.
Once again, I believe this game may be great when it is released. I just think people need to have realistic expectations coming into it. It does no one any good if someone feels betrayed when the beta testing doesn't live up to their (possibly unrealistic) expectations. I don't want to see threads nitpicking what the developers post in IRC, arguing about just how (dis)honest or (un)professional the developers are when the fame fails to fully meet your expectations. When/If that happens, step back, take a break and try to appreciate it for what it is or step away and let the people who still enjoy it, enjoy it.
Sorry for the wall of text above. If anyone wants to respond to a specific issue noted above please start a new thread, as this one can easily (and is already starting to) become long and rambly. The only point of this thread is to encourage forbearance in the face the inevitable development problems.
On the other hand, we could all just voice our opinions on a I-feel-like-it basis, similarily to how you're doing it right now.
Sounds good? OK.
I like to remind you Lineage2 were running on the unreal engine (different version thou)
And it have been hosting some of the biggest sieges in mmo history!
Lineage 2 uses the Unreal engine only for client side graphics, not for networking which the Atlas addition to Unreal 3 is supposed to accomplish in Mortal Online. The Xsyon developers did their own graphics and networking engine.
Like someone else has already posted. having the majority of 'features' turned off is a BIG cause for concern, especially as any one feature has the potential to break the game and any features in combination can have the same effect. Add in the limited number of players and they've really no idea how their server code and systems architecture will hold up under load.
I pre-ordered, partially to support the dev, partially to enjoy the first few months of choas as people find their feet. Some of the best times in MMOs tend to be right at the start, despite the bugs and issues. I go into this with my eyes open though.
The game's proper 'limited release' was pushed back to 15 May actually. What they are doing at the moment is letting small batches of players in for testing. The game is not 'released' as yet.
Just a couple quotes for reference. These should give a rough idea of the current state of alpha testing and development and the appropriate degree of forbearance.
Xsyon, Lead developer, April 1st
Hello Everyone!
I know you are all anxious to get into Xsyon, so here is a quick update about our plans for the week.
Tomorrow I plan to take a break from programming to answer FAQ questions so that a full FAQ list can be posted on the site.
Wednessday evening we plan to let some players in regardless of the state of the game, so at least some of you can begin to play around and get a feel for the Xsyon world.
Over the next few days I will assess our situation in terms of what still needs to be organized and completed. I'd like the pre-release players to have a decent amount of time in the game before our final wipe. I'm not sure if 2 weeks will be enough and I'd also like to take some time to plan some evolutions of the tribe system and some other features based on what's been discussed here so far.
The final wipe might be pushed forward. If it is, the 2 months free game play for pre-order players will begin after the final wipe.
http://www.xsyon.com/forums/5-announcements/5958-from-the-developers#11368
Virtus, Xsyon admin, March 28th
However...
For the last year I have had an offline mode of the client, which is a fancy way of saying I spent a lot of timing doing nothing but looking at terrain.
This, however, has recently changed. Last Monday I took my first plunge and logged into the real game Jooky (Lead Dev) and I have been sorting out major bugs that we have come across to prepare for the pre-orders.
Since that time I have grown quiet attached to terraforming.
I have not done anything complex yet such as crafting or fighting animals as these are currently turned off so as to test the basic functions of the game.
On top of this I have worked with Jooky as a tester on the previous game he worked for which he was the client side developer.
http://www.xsyon.com/forums/6-general-discussion/11123-a-little-insight-and-a-personal-confession#11123
Videos show that basic craftting has been in for several days. The last patch put in about 12 hours ago apparently adds 90% of the crafting that is intended to be in at game launch.
I am really waiting to see how the server handles the animals once they are put in.
As is typical with indie dev teams, it's going to be another paid beta when it 'launches' and as long as those who decide to participate understand this and are willing to accept the problems that it will have, no harm, no foul.
What will be annoying is the number of people who jump on here telling us how they were robbed and want to demand their money back because its not a finished, fully featured MMORPG.
Me, I'll probably hang back and let the Dev's and early adopters flesh out the game world a bit before I give it a go.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A very interesting set of features.
No box sales means no sale to me, though.
I am concerned about the terraforming apsects. Road building is very cool, but I think raising and lowering of ground will be exploited something awful.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
terraforming will be only available in tribe zones as I read.
Amen to that.
I am also curious about respawn times on resources like trees.
Anyone else here play Wacraft 2? Remember what the maps looked like at the end of a game?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't think that resource respawn will be an issue. When you cut a tree and log it you can only carry a small amount of wood (basically you can't backpack an entire tree) depending on how they have resource amounts setup in crafting, hopefully two or three trees stockpiled will carry several crafters over for a while.
Terraforming is a pretty neat feature they said they're reworking it because they never really intended to have it as a player feature, so they'll probably be reworking it to use only in certain areas (such as tribe areas letting leaders set rules as to who can use it etc.) So there aren't hundreds of roads to nowhere, dams across every river, and a player made waterfall every three feet lol.
Well, you will always run into the problem of someone removing an etire forest just to grind their skill. At which point it just becomes a real pain.
Also becomes the villages loss because the piles will slowly decay and they will have to travel a ways to get wood which will become dangerous.
or you can plant a seedling and let the new tree grow up. This is should be in as the trees once choped it doesnt regrow.
Yeah, I didn't want to mention that since I couldnt remember if that will be an option or not...I seem to think yes but I'm not positive
Who really cares if all of the features are implimented or not. All that matters is whether or not the release features are executed in a way that results in fun for the player.
Most accounts at this point show a fairly uninteresting experience, but it is still early to judge. I hope they can create a fun experience - improving the combat mechanics would go a long way.
Really?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre