So there are 2 possibilites: OR the design team is exaggerating (and hyping) a lot and most of the play is STILL very much made out of instances (cost reduction) or they face a rather unplayable world.
Or as 3rd option, they've taken the extra time to implement things as they envisioned and it works as they say it does.
Delays are nothing new, isn't the oh so wonderful Blizzard not a master in endless delaying themselves? Just an example, there are very few game companies who really make their initial deadline with a game just as they'd planned it to be.
Look, I don't care if you're in complete love with WoW or really dislike Guild Wars, fact is that they delivered a smooth fun MMO (call it CORPG, MMORPG, whatever!) that was much more innovative in a number of ways than the majority of other MMO's. And it worked. Besides that, they've shown they put lots of heart and effort in their product, with the regular fun events they keep hosting in a frequency not a lot of the other MMO companies can keep up with.
Also, they've shown that they have the ability to keep up with their words, that it's not just fluff: ultimately, neither you nor I or any other can say how much GW2 will fullfill its potential, it's all just guess work, my arguments against yours. And I don't care to 'win', if you're convinced that GW2 will fail? *shrug* suit yourself.
But GW2 already being outdated? Lol... have you read the reactions and responses? People are loving it, and If ArenaNet can back up their words and intended implementations, there'll be hordes that will go for it. Maybe not the fanbois of WoW or other MMO's, but let those play their MMO to their liking.
Me, I'm gonna have fun in a new, innovative one. I'll be roaming around in the world of GW2.
edit:
2 other points about your post:
- Everquest had no auction house and is as much a MMO as any other (yes, there were MMORPG's before WoW)
- Your argumentation is warped, either Jeff Strain isn't a talented lead designer and genius so his positive effect on GW and GW2 is nonexistent and a fable, or the talented Jeff Strain disagreed with the design philosophy and left so his positive influence cant help GW2. You can't have that argument both ways.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If any of you where there at the Launch of GW 1 it was a really smooth launch as far as online games goes. As far as gold spammers and bots. Spammers were really never a problem in GW 1 but the bots were time to time. But i must say they worked hard to stay ahead of them as you would see them in area's running out of towns and after a few days they would be gone. These guys really know how to do it right as far as i can see. Looking forward to 5 more years of GW 2
And those are facts: a smooth launch and little hinder of gold spammers or bots, especially compared to how it is in other MMO's. Next to that, it had some of the smoothest and most polished gameplay I've experienced with all the MMO's I've played, even if it may be that people didn't like the invisible walls or not being able to jump.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
the game SOUNDS amazing, however i have been burnt way too many times by game developers telling me what i want to hear.
One big difference is that they aren't simply post-wow copy-cat money grubbers, unless they'ved changed. I tried guild wars beta before wow was released and I liked the way it looked and played yet I was so excited about wow coming up, doing our guild website and research, that I soon dropped it. Yeah that's how messed up wow was--addicting even before it came out. But I remember GW as a clean experience. This new stuff looks really impressive. I'm inclined to "hope" it's not another fail and might even persuade me to spend some hours.
I've been excited about GW2 for a couple of years now and look forward to it improving the little niggles I had with GW (mainly the zones, and the complicated skill system). Here's hoping it will provide the fix a lot of us currently dissatisfied players are longing for ^^
I'm really glad they've addressed and learned from some key speed bumps in Guild Wars - gimmicky builds, the puzzle pieces of skills/attributes, etc. That is very encouraging. I love the game and have been playing since launch.
The only disappointing revelation is the 10 slot skill bar. I was really hoping the limited skill bar would go away and a more innovative system, or even a more traditional skillbar would replace it. If the 10 slot bar ends up being limiting like the 8 slot bar currently is then it will be a real deal breaker for me.
As always the art is truly amazing and the combat sequence with the Elementalist made me smile and maybe even a little bit of jaw dropping. I loved the voice over, "And down you go!" The people at Arena Net do some really amazing stuff.
Well, I think they may have gone into it further today or not, but they are going for more innovative.
You technically lose your second job-class, but you gain access to other players with their own abilities (full-powered).
So while in Guild Wars 1 you had to be a Warrior/Elementalist just to smack stuff with a hammer, then blast em, and have the elementalist or warrior sub weakened for it, you have two players at full power. An example was if an Elementalist sets up a Static field, a warrior (or archer if they are in), can fire their gun/bow, and when the shot passes through the field, it gains electrical damage. Abilities are being made to work in tandem with teamwork, not just your skillbar.
I'm really glad they've addressed and learned from some key speed bumps in Guild Wars - gimmicky builds, the puzzle pieces of skills/attributes, etc. That is very encouraging. I love the game and have been playing since launch.
The only disappointing revelation is the 10 slot skill bar. I was really hoping the limited skill bar would go away and a more innovative system, or even a more traditional skillbar would replace it. If the 10 slot bar ends up being limiting like the 8 slot bar currently is then it will be a real deal breaker for me.
As always the art is truly amazing and the combat sequence with the Elementalist made me smile and maybe even a little bit of jaw dropping. I loved the voice over, "And down you go!" The people at Arena Net do some really amazing stuff.
I feel that the limited skill slots makes the game more strategic and unique. Out of all the mmo's I've played, I've rarely every used 10 skills or more consistently. Most mmo's now have classes that use maybe 3-6 skills/spells on a regular basis. Just try it out. I think you'll find that having 10 skills is not as limiting as you think.
If you play it and still find you need more than 10, feel free to switch up skills to find a good combo or stick with GW 1. Each gamer has their own preferences. To each their own.
The important thing is to have fun. I'm definitely going to buy this game. It's got me very excited!
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
"Guild Wars 2 is a fully persistent world. What we mean by that is that you will be in the world with other players and that anything those players do to impact the world will change things for everyone. If a group of players wipes out a bandit camp then that bandit camp is gone (until the bandits rebuild it of course), if a town is overrun by centaurs then the services in that town are gone until players can win it back and rebuild it.
We do have instancing of course which we use both for dungeons and in helping to tell a character’s personal story."
Does this mean that zones will get rid of zoning for the most part finally and not only run into players in the towns and forts? If so, I think it would be a huge improvement to make GW a truly persistant world like 95% of the other mmo's.
yes it means exactly that. Strain posted on a forum a few years ago that he had solved the zooning in another and a better way than he did for Wow (he was Wow lead programmer at the start before Kaplan).
GW will have instanced dungeons and similar things, and some instances for the story. The rest will be open and very different from current game with the dynamic world system. Mythic actually planned something similar for WAR but cut it out with most of the other good stuff.
The only reason I wasn't interested in GW1 was because of the instanced way it works, now they are making a true MMO with a persistant world this could be a really great game. I really hope they pull it off.
Usually NCsoft is very hollow on the content side of features in their mmo's but GW so far for some reason usually delivers.
ArenaNet is the developer, not NCSoft.
It's wholly owned subsidiary, not an independent studio with a publishing contract through NC. They're not that separate.
Yes they are, actually. All games developed by NCSoft are made in Korea by their own NCSoft development team. ArenaNet is a US company and has a completely different development team than NCSoft.
Sure, the NCSoft NA leadership may oversee what ArenaNet is doing, but if the first Guild Wars game is any indicator, NCSoft pretty much lets ArenaNet take their own game in the direction they want.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Guild Wars 1 was a great game, the innovative primary/secondary class skill set coupled with a limited skillbar proved to make for extremely interesting builds. One of the reasons I believe that MMO's get stale is that there is a certain amount of power you are given when every skill included in your arsenal is readily available at a moments notice.
The 8 skill bar in GW1 along with skill points and "primary profession" skill points proved to make people think about their builds. To a few people I noticed complaining about the skillbar persisting within GW2 I have one thing to say. They are actually doing you a favor.
Back in GW1 you had 8 slots...for everything. If you included a sigil of ressurection and an elite skill you really only walked around with 6. The developers have realized this and created dedicated slots that are for elite skills as well as a personal healing skill. This in itself is not far fetched from Turbine (aka Warner Bros) method they put into LOTRO in which every class has some self heal of a sort. It allows for self-sustaining solo play, albeit at a cost, perhaps more downtime. Longer cooldowns, what have you.
This dynamic allows healers to do things other then hit heal all the time. My fondest memories of GW1 were playing my monk. GW1 was the only game in which I completely enjoyed being a healer. Why? Because instead of going pure healing, I went into Protection and Divine Spirit (apologies if I got the wrong primary for monk here, it's been awhile since I played).
The failings of GW started when they released Factions, and was further amplified by Nightfall. The already segregated cities, and instanced world caused alot of people to already not meet new people. This was put on two-fold by heroes replacing your typical Mercenary. By adding in persistant "Heroes" that you could equip and customized I found groups that were more NPC, then human. Hopefully by making their world larger and persistant and less instanced GW2 will provide that grandious feeling you get when playing MMO's.
Not to sidetrack or mention the elephant in the room (No pun intended on the article of the same name here on MMORPG.com), but that was one of the greatest feats of WoW. Was creating this grand feeling when you entered certain cities. I'll still never forget walking into Stormwind and literally having my breath taken away as I listened to the excellent music and looked at the architecture. To this day if I still played WoW, I could enjoy myself just riding/flying around looking at the scenery. The only feeling I ever really got from GW that came close was the majestic, and virgin innocence of Pre-Searing Ascalon.
I for one, have been burnt by many MMO's over the years since I stopped dedicating my time to WoW. My first introduction to online gaming was a little-known MUD known as "The Two Towers". WoW was my first MMO, partly because I was very much into playing WC3 at the time. After WoW, I played LOTRO, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, WAR. And all of them to one degree or another failed to provide key elements of success that I had gotten used to in WoW.
I am still cautiously optimistic about GW2. Of all the MMO's in development, it seems like ArenaNet has actually done the unthinkable, took what was good and improved it, while realizing the bad designs in GW1 and attempting to eliminate them. GW2 feels like the first chance at finding a new "MMO Home" for me in a long time.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
well u all wil laugh at me but ahh well i dont care. i collect games and playem when others fail me. atm i got the guild wars trilogy (havent played it much yet) plan to get eye of the north n other goodies. and i do plan to get Guild Wars 2 why...just to have the entire collection and well its f2p online forever once i buy it. hehe (already got the entire GTA series n few other games collections along with fallout XD ) so naturally i am waiting for this game but i am highly curious if we can do normal jumps in gw2 besides typing /jump to jump...lol ahh well doesnt take much to please me..lol anyhow +1 to gw2 :-) btw fire imp is fun :-)
10-slot skill bar equals deal-breaker. I don't play games that limit me in my choice of skills at my disposal. It's my friggin' skill and I'll use it whenever and wherever I feel like it or don't bother giving it to me in the first place. It's that simple. It's why I didn't play Guild Wars and its why I won't play GW2.
Oops. Another mob popped behind me. No biggie. I'll just fear him and place until I'm done killing this one...oh, wait. Silly me chose to have another melee skill instead of my fear because this stupid game won't let me have access to all of my skills.
10-slot skill bar equals deal-breaker. I don't play games that limit me in my choice of skills at my disposal. It's my friggin' skill and I'll use it whenever and wherever I feel like it or don't bother giving it to me in the first place. It's that simple. It's why I didn't play Guild Wars and its why I won't play GW2.
Oops. Another mob popped behind me. No biggie. I'll just fear him and place until I'm done killing this one...oh, wait. Silly me chose to have another melee skill instead of my fear because this stupid game won't let me have access to all of my skills.
Lame.
Saying something is a deal breaker without ever trying it is a form of ignorance. Skills in GW1 (and to a lesser extend GW2) are(will) be about finding synergy between them. Overall skills in GW1 were more powerful then most games. And a reason why they don't give you all your skills, well, are you going to go into an area/mission that has ice elementals all over the place and bring your water/ice skills? Or are you going to bring your fire skills? (This isn't a hard question...)
You don't use all your skills at the same time in WoW or whatever it is you are playing at the moment anyhow. If you took out ALL the ranks of the skills that WoW gives you, and all the crap skills that noone uses, I dare say you would have LESS skills then GW1 players use on a regular basis.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
Comments
Or as 3rd option, they've taken the extra time to implement things as they envisioned and it works as they say it does.
Delays are nothing new, isn't the oh so wonderful Blizzard not a master in endless delaying themselves? Just an example, there are very few game companies who really make their initial deadline with a game just as they'd planned it to be.
Look, I don't care if you're in complete love with WoW or really dislike Guild Wars, fact is that they delivered a smooth fun MMO (call it CORPG, MMORPG, whatever!) that was much more innovative in a number of ways than the majority of other MMO's. And it worked. Besides that, they've shown they put lots of heart and effort in their product, with the regular fun events they keep hosting in a frequency not a lot of the other MMO companies can keep up with.
Also, they've shown that they have the ability to keep up with their words, that it's not just fluff: ultimately, neither you nor I or any other can say how much GW2 will fullfill its potential, it's all just guess work, my arguments against yours. And I don't care to 'win', if you're convinced that GW2 will fail? *shrug* suit yourself.
But GW2 already being outdated? Lol... have you read the reactions and responses? People are loving it, and If ArenaNet can back up their words and intended implementations, there'll be hordes that will go for it. Maybe not the fanbois of WoW or other MMO's, but let those play their MMO to their liking.
Me, I'm gonna have fun in a new, innovative one. I'll be roaming around in the world of GW2.
edit:
2 other points about your post:
- Everquest had no auction house and is as much a MMO as any other (yes, there were MMORPG's before WoW)
- Your argumentation is warped, either Jeff Strain isn't a talented lead designer and genius so his positive effect on GW and GW2 is nonexistent and a fable, or the talented Jeff Strain disagreed with the design philosophy and left so his positive influence cant help GW2. You can't have that argument both ways.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And those are facts: a smooth launch and little hinder of gold spammers or bots, especially compared to how it is in other MMO's. Next to that, it had some of the smoothest and most polished gameplay I've experienced with all the MMO's I've played, even if it may be that people didn't like the invisible walls or not being able to jump.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I have 2 questions
1) Auction or trading houses are they in
2) Player Housing . Do the devs plan to bring it in GW lore and franchise down the line
Perhaps in an expansion for GW 2
The only way to delete the gold spammers and such is to go where they live and kill them in real life or put them in prison.
One big difference is that they aren't simply post-wow copy-cat money grubbers, unless they'ved changed. I tried guild wars beta before wow was released and I liked the way it looked and played yet I was so excited about wow coming up, doing our guild website and research, that I soon dropped it. Yeah that's how messed up wow was--addicting even before it came out. But I remember GW as a clean experience. This new stuff looks really impressive. I'm inclined to "hope" it's not another fail and might even persuade me to spend some hours.
I've been excited about GW2 for a couple of years now and look forward to it improving the little niggles I had with GW (mainly the zones, and the complicated skill system). Here's hoping it will provide the fix a lot of us currently dissatisfied players are longing for ^^
Well, I think they may have gone into it further today or not, but they are going for more innovative.
You technically lose your second job-class, but you gain access to other players with their own abilities (full-powered).
So while in Guild Wars 1 you had to be a Warrior/Elementalist just to smack stuff with a hammer, then blast em, and have the elementalist or warrior sub weakened for it, you have two players at full power. An example was if an Elementalist sets up a Static field, a warrior (or archer if they are in), can fire their gun/bow, and when the shot passes through the field, it gains electrical damage. Abilities are being made to work in tandem with teamwork, not just your skillbar.
I feel that the limited skill slots makes the game more strategic and unique. Out of all the mmo's I've played, I've rarely every used 10 skills or more consistently. Most mmo's now have classes that use maybe 3-6 skills/spells on a regular basis. Just try it out. I think you'll find that having 10 skills is not as limiting as you think.
If you play it and still find you need more than 10, feel free to switch up skills to find a good combo or stick with GW 1. Each gamer has their own preferences. To each their own.
The important thing is to have fun. I'm definitely going to buy this game. It's got me very excited!
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
Looks like I will be definitely buying GW2 then.
You can use keyboard movement in GW so I assume you can in GW2
The only reason I wasn't interested in GW1 was because of the instanced way it works, now they are making a true MMO with a persistant world this could be a really great game. I really hope they pull it off.
Usually NCsoft is very hollow on the content side of features in their mmo's but GW so far for some reason usually delivers.
NCsoft didn't make Guild Wars. So there.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
ArenaNet is the developer, not NCSoft.
Yes they are, actually. All games developed by NCSoft are made in Korea by their own NCSoft development team. ArenaNet is a US company and has a completely different development team than NCSoft.
Sure, the NCSoft NA leadership may oversee what ArenaNet is doing, but if the first Guild Wars game is any indicator, NCSoft pretty much lets ArenaNet take their own game in the direction they want.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Guild Wars 1 was a great game, the innovative primary/secondary class skill set coupled with a limited skillbar proved to make for extremely interesting builds. One of the reasons I believe that MMO's get stale is that there is a certain amount of power you are given when every skill included in your arsenal is readily available at a moments notice.
The 8 skill bar in GW1 along with skill points and "primary profession" skill points proved to make people think about their builds. To a few people I noticed complaining about the skillbar persisting within GW2 I have one thing to say. They are actually doing you a favor.
Back in GW1 you had 8 slots...for everything. If you included a sigil of ressurection and an elite skill you really only walked around with 6. The developers have realized this and created dedicated slots that are for elite skills as well as a personal healing skill. This in itself is not far fetched from Turbine (aka Warner Bros) method they put into LOTRO in which every class has some self heal of a sort. It allows for self-sustaining solo play, albeit at a cost, perhaps more downtime. Longer cooldowns, what have you.
This dynamic allows healers to do things other then hit heal all the time. My fondest memories of GW1 were playing my monk. GW1 was the only game in which I completely enjoyed being a healer. Why? Because instead of going pure healing, I went into Protection and Divine Spirit (apologies if I got the wrong primary for monk here, it's been awhile since I played).
The failings of GW started when they released Factions, and was further amplified by Nightfall. The already segregated cities, and instanced world caused alot of people to already not meet new people. This was put on two-fold by heroes replacing your typical Mercenary. By adding in persistant "Heroes" that you could equip and customized I found groups that were more NPC, then human. Hopefully by making their world larger and persistant and less instanced GW2 will provide that grandious feeling you get when playing MMO's.
Not to sidetrack or mention the elephant in the room (No pun intended on the article of the same name here on MMORPG.com), but that was one of the greatest feats of WoW. Was creating this grand feeling when you entered certain cities. I'll still never forget walking into Stormwind and literally having my breath taken away as I listened to the excellent music and looked at the architecture. To this day if I still played WoW, I could enjoy myself just riding/flying around looking at the scenery. The only feeling I ever really got from GW that came close was the majestic, and virgin innocence of Pre-Searing Ascalon.
I for one, have been burnt by many MMO's over the years since I stopped dedicating my time to WoW. My first introduction to online gaming was a little-known MUD known as "The Two Towers". WoW was my first MMO, partly because I was very much into playing WC3 at the time. After WoW, I played LOTRO, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, WAR. And all of them to one degree or another failed to provide key elements of success that I had gotten used to in WoW.
I am still cautiously optimistic about GW2. Of all the MMO's in development, it seems like ArenaNet has actually done the unthinkable, took what was good and improved it, while realizing the bad designs in GW1 and attempting to eliminate them. GW2 feels like the first chance at finding a new "MMO Home" for me in a long time.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
well u all wil laugh at me but ahh well i dont care. i collect games and playem when others fail me. atm i got the guild wars trilogy (havent played it much yet) plan to get eye of the north n other goodies. and i do plan to get Guild Wars 2 why...just to have the entire collection and well its f2p online forever once i buy it. hehe (already got the entire GTA series n few other games collections along with fallout XD ) so naturally i am waiting for this game but i am highly curious if we can do normal jumps in gw2 besides typing /jump to jump...lol ahh well doesnt take much to please me..lol anyhow +1 to gw2 :-) btw fire imp is fun :-)
10-slot skill bar equals deal-breaker. I don't play games that limit me in my choice of skills at my disposal. It's my friggin' skill and I'll use it whenever and wherever I feel like it or don't bother giving it to me in the first place. It's that simple. It's why I didn't play Guild Wars and its why I won't play GW2.
Oops. Another mob popped behind me. No biggie. I'll just fear him and place until I'm done killing this one...oh, wait. Silly me chose to have another melee skill instead of my fear because this stupid game won't let me have access to all of my skills.
Lame.
So did you not think to ask about payment model or were those type of questions off limits?
Its pretty much a guarantee that GW2 will have an item mall but I wonder how extensive it will be.
Saying something is a deal breaker without ever trying it is a form of ignorance. Skills in GW1 (and to a lesser extend GW2) are(will) be about finding synergy between them. Overall skills in GW1 were more powerful then most games. And a reason why they don't give you all your skills, well, are you going to go into an area/mission that has ice elementals all over the place and bring your water/ice skills? Or are you going to bring your fire skills? (This isn't a hard question...)
You don't use all your skills at the same time in WoW or whatever it is you are playing at the moment anyhow. If you took out ALL the ranks of the skills that WoW gives you, and all the crap skills that noone uses, I dare say you would have LESS skills then GW1 players use on a regular basis.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
