I'll probably buy the expansion and check it out. I haven't played since 2005 so I'm curious to see what's changed. I don't suspect though, that I'll stay for long.
I'll probably buy the expansion and check it out. I haven't played since 2005 so I'm curious to see what's changed. I don't suspect though, that I'll stay for long.
Please post your experience when you do.
I also have not played since 2005 and would genuinely like to know what you think of the current game.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I will not. WotLK created an elitist community that is driven soley by end-game raid grinding and is obsessed with gear scores. This has created a vicious cycle... in order to improve gear score you must run heroics & raids... but without a high gear score no group will run heroics or raids with you.
"ur gearz r the bad. gtfo noob! lulz"
I believe this was one of the most-uttered phrases to me when I recently levelled my pally to 80. I got bored with my lock who was completely decked out in ToGC and Uld25 gear (I cancelled my sub about a month before the Icecrown exp) so I decided to finish leveling my pally since she was at 70 already. The guild my lock was in had no desire to help me level my pally even though we needed more healers, and I had no prayer of finding any PUGs that would help out, so I just said F it and left.
this is a common complaint about WOW.
I don't know how accurate it is though. Here is the thing.. you can't (in any game) expect to run the latest content if you did not do the work to get there. My guild is very light and social, but we do raid. But if you want to interact with our players, it will be through running heroics or battlegrounds. I am sorry, but raiding can be annoying if you constantly wipe. Why should 9 other people carry someone they don't know?
But for heroics, and even older raid content like Nax, a nice player, even if in greens will get brought along. In fact, that is how we specifically 'vet' new members. We don't care about gear, we care about you knowing your class mechanisms and your personality.
My advice to you, or anyone in 'lower gear'.. is to focus on your personality. Act like you are fun person to play with and you at least know what you are supposed to be doing (or are open to a little advice). If you want to run the latest raid content, you can't expect to do it without getting to know a guild. If you put some work into the social part of the game, and generally are a nice person, most guilds will help you gear up so you can joing the raiding team.
More than likely, here is what you did " Can I join your guild, I want to raid ICC". " Sorry your gear isn't good enough for ICC"... " wow, you guys are a bunch of elitist jerks who only care about gearscore". A better approach to getting into a top guild is to ask to join to be part of their heroic/old raid content teams. Most guilds run alts through older content and would love a new player to come along. WOW is set up better than any other game (because of badges) at allowing players to catch up quickly. Within a month of being in the guild, you will easily be a viable alternate for the main raid group, especially if you want to heal.
WOW is set up better than any other game (because of badges) at allowing players to catch up quickly. Within a month of being in the guild, you will easily be a viable alternate for the main raid group, especially if you want to heal.
I will not nitpick the rest of your post, despite having issues with some of the things you state.
WoW fails at this design. Where it claims to be 'casual' it is anything but. There is MORE of a grind, more of a pressure to 'have the gear' due to the 'abundance' of avenues for obtaining said gear. The problem being, because of this, and the need to allow a natural segregation of the population occur (and it being a gear-centric game), there must be a path of advancement where gear is concerned. You end up having to chase a carrot each and every damn patch because all previous gear is made available to the masses, and it is now the 'established standard'. Given the rate at which gear accelerates today compared to vanilla, this problem is compounded. You're quick to catch up, but you never stop catching up- the treadmill churns faster today than it ever did.
I was a member of a guild that claimed a top 100 4HM kill in classic. We had 2 of our 8 tanks (4hm was an extremely tank intensive encounter) still sporting blues from UBRS. Some of our mages still had green +healing and spell power items as wands (arguably better than some epics, but green nonetheless). I personally was a druid with a hodge-podge of gear from all sorts of places, of which 3/8 stormrage was my bragging stick. The low ration rate of gear availability made it ok to have 'dated gear'.
WoW is nothing of what it once was. What's so shameful is... it is currently nothing of what it claims to presently be.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
mm!im not sure about the way you put it is fair .but i agree with you ,vanilla wow was a better game ,probably not shorter but it was still better!today its just a a boring silly treadmill.i dont mind treadmill but not the way it is put today !original wowo was way better.if cataclysm is the same on average as wotlk im better off playing any f2p game.
I plan to resub for cat to see what bliz does and doesnt do. I wish they would slow down progression so you cant rush to endgame in 1-2 weeks, and allow for a more thorough exploration of content. If they continue their ongoing trend to make the game "accesible" by removing the need to quest or to attune to instances they will drive more players away than they gained with the relaunch. I am in no way saying it will be the death of wow or anythinglike that...even though the only thing to kill wow will be wow itself
WOW is set up better than any other game (because of badges) at allowing players to catch up quickly. Within a month of being in the guild, you will easily be a viable alternate for the main raid group, especially if you want to heal.
I will not nitpick the rest of your post, despite having issues with some of the things you state.
WoW fails at this design. Where it claims to be 'casual' it is anything but. There is MORE of a grind, more of a pressure to 'have the gear' due to the 'abundance' of avenues for obtaining said gear. The problem being, because of this, and the need to allow a natural segregation of the population occur (and it being a gear-centric game), there must be a path of advancement where gear is concerned. You end up having to chase a carrot each and every damn patch because all previous gear is made available to the masses, and it is now the 'established standard'. Given the rate at which gear accelerates today compared to vanilla, this problem is compounded. You're quick to catch up, but you never stop catching up- the treadmill churns faster today than it ever did.
I was a member of a guild that claimed a top 100 4HM kill in classic. We had 2 of our 8 tanks (4hm was an extremely tank intensive encounter) still sporting blues from UBRS. Some of our mages still had green +healing and spell power items as wands (arguably better than some epics, but green nonetheless). I personally was a druid with a hodge-podge of gear from all sorts of places, of which 3/8 stormrage was my bragging stick. The low ration rate of gear availability made it ok to have 'dated gear'.
WoW is nothing of what it once was. What's so shameful is... it is currently nothing of what it claims to presently be.
That is the nature of any MMORPG. They need to keep adding the next tier, because it is incentive to play. Every game has it. There needs to be some way to advance your character or else you will just 'finish' the game and stop playing. You really want to be using the same gear today as you will be using in two years?
Cat is also adding path of the titans, which is another way to advance your character once you hit lvl 85,
But the majority of WOW, and every other MMORPGs advancement system involves new tiers of gear. But in WOW's case, they make it much easier to catch up and only ever be one tier behind (both pvp and pve)... which means you become a viable raid member.
And again, the only time your 'gear score' comes into play is if you are a complete stranger to the guild. In the vast majority of guilds, it's more about your social interactions and your ability to play your class that will get you into the guild.
I didn't come back for lich king, nor will I come back for cat.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
Unless CAT makes the general world more than a waiting lobby to get in arenas or BGs or what ever they call them now, I will not be going back. Cat seems like a gimmick. Wish it worked for me.
That is the nature of any MMORPG. They need to keep adding the next tier, because it is incentive to play. Every game has it. There needs to be some way to advance your character or else you will just 'finish' the game and stop playing. You really want to be using the same gear today as you will be using in two years?
Cat is also adding path of the titans, which is another way to advance your character once you hit lvl 85,
But the majority of WOW, and every other MMORPGs advancement system involves new tiers of gear. But in WOW's case, they make it much easier to catch up and only ever be one tier behind (both pvp and pve)... which means you become a viable raid member.
And again, the only time your 'gear score' comes into play is if you are a complete stranger to the guild. In the vast majority of guilds, it's more about your social interactions and your ability to play your class that will get you into the guild.
1. It is not the nature of any MMORPG. Advancement, perhaps, through gear, no. There is no 'need' to 'add the next tier'. Your highlighted sentence contradicts the gear advancement angle you use 4 sentences prior. (And for what it's worth, it took me nearly two years to replace some of the gear I got from DM/UBRS, which was fine.) Enter the concept of AA's, for example, which are wildly popular in some MMORPGs, as a method of advancement wholely not involving gear.
2. How easy gear is to obtain, and the *lifecycle* of it defines the treadmill. As previously stated, it sure is easy to catch up! But damn is it the same pace once you do catch up. Compared to yore, when it might have been harder to catch up, but once you did, you were good, there was no more treadmill necessary. [ Gear validity : time invested to obtain gear ] was much more favorable then, than is now.
3. Your third paragraph reads wrong. 'In WoW, and the majority of other AAA MMORPG's... ' would be a much more acute statement. Regards to being a viable raid member was referenced in my previous post, so it holds no more validity here than there.
4. Gotta get your foot in the door somewhere. The point being, 'gearscore' is a common occurance and can't be brushed aside as if it doesn't matter to the community *at large*.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
That is the nature of any MMORPG. They need to keep adding the next tier, because it is incentive to play. Every game has it.
No. Not every game.
There needs to be some way to advance your character or else you will just 'finish' the game and stop playing.
There is alternate advancment. There is rerolling (how many MMORPG players play only one character?). There is adding new gameplay options for end game.
You really want to be using the same gear today as you will be using in two years?
That would be perfectly fine with me.
Cat is also adding path of the titans, which is another way to advance your character once you hit lvl 85,
But the majority of WOW, and every other MMORPGs advancement system involves new tiers of gear.
But in WOW's case, they make it much easier to catch up and only ever be one tier behind (both pvp and pve)... which means you become a viable raid member.
And again, the only time your 'gear score' comes into play is if you are a complete stranger to the guild. In the vast majority of guilds, it's more about your social interactions and your ability to play your class that will get you into the guild.
Ability to play your class meant little once AOE tanking was put in.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
already have my pre orders in heh. Can't wait for it to come out honestly.
been playing since it released and am still having a blast. i'm sure they'll have plenty resub, i have several friends that havn't played in over a year ready to jump back in it.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Comments
NO Because I am sick of Mohawk Grenades commercials!
no, because of tauren paladins.
I'm somewhat in the middle...
I'll probably buy the expansion and check it out. I haven't played since 2005 so I'm curious to see what's changed. I don't suspect though, that I'll stay for long.
Please post your experience when you do.
I also have not played since 2005 and would genuinely like to know what you think of the current game.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
this is a common complaint about WOW.
I don't know how accurate it is though. Here is the thing.. you can't (in any game) expect to run the latest content if you did not do the work to get there. My guild is very light and social, but we do raid. But if you want to interact with our players, it will be through running heroics or battlegrounds. I am sorry, but raiding can be annoying if you constantly wipe. Why should 9 other people carry someone they don't know?
But for heroics, and even older raid content like Nax, a nice player, even if in greens will get brought along. In fact, that is how we specifically 'vet' new members. We don't care about gear, we care about you knowing your class mechanisms and your personality.
My advice to you, or anyone in 'lower gear'.. is to focus on your personality. Act like you are fun person to play with and you at least know what you are supposed to be doing (or are open to a little advice). If you want to run the latest raid content, you can't expect to do it without getting to know a guild. If you put some work into the social part of the game, and generally are a nice person, most guilds will help you gear up so you can joing the raiding team.
More than likely, here is what you did " Can I join your guild, I want to raid ICC". " Sorry your gear isn't good enough for ICC"... " wow, you guys are a bunch of elitist jerks who only care about gearscore". A better approach to getting into a top guild is to ask to join to be part of their heroic/old raid content teams. Most guilds run alts through older content and would love a new player to come along. WOW is set up better than any other game (because of badges) at allowing players to catch up quickly. Within a month of being in the guild, you will easily be a viable alternate for the main raid group, especially if you want to heal.
And yet you post on the 7th page of a thread in a forum dedicated to that game. Yep, you are not interested at all.
I will not nitpick the rest of your post, despite having issues with some of the things you state.
WoW fails at this design. Where it claims to be 'casual' it is anything but. There is MORE of a grind, more of a pressure to 'have the gear' due to the 'abundance' of avenues for obtaining said gear. The problem being, because of this, and the need to allow a natural segregation of the population occur (and it being a gear-centric game), there must be a path of advancement where gear is concerned. You end up having to chase a carrot each and every damn patch because all previous gear is made available to the masses, and it is now the 'established standard'. Given the rate at which gear accelerates today compared to vanilla, this problem is compounded. You're quick to catch up, but you never stop catching up- the treadmill churns faster today than it ever did.
I was a member of a guild that claimed a top 100 4HM kill in classic. We had 2 of our 8 tanks (4hm was an extremely tank intensive encounter) still sporting blues from UBRS. Some of our mages still had green +healing and spell power items as wands (arguably better than some epics, but green nonetheless). I personally was a druid with a hodge-podge of gear from all sorts of places, of which 3/8 stormrage was my bragging stick. The low ration rate of gear availability made it ok to have 'dated gear'.
WoW is nothing of what it once was. What's so shameful is... it is currently nothing of what it claims to presently be.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
mm!im not sure about the way you put it is fair .but i agree with you ,vanilla wow was a better game ,probably not shorter but it was still better!today its just a a boring silly treadmill.i dont mind treadmill but not the way it is put today !original wowo was way better.if cataclysm is the same on average as wotlk im better off playing any f2p game.
hell allod is on par with wow.
I plan to resub for cat to see what bliz does and doesnt do. I wish they would slow down progression so you cant rush to endgame in 1-2 weeks, and allow for a more thorough exploration of content. If they continue their ongoing trend to make the game "accesible" by removing the need to quest or to attune to instances they will drive more players away than they gained with the relaunch. I am in no way saying it will be the death of wow or anythinglike that...even though the only thing to kill wow will be wow itself
That is the nature of any MMORPG. They need to keep adding the next tier, because it is incentive to play. Every game has it. There needs to be some way to advance your character or else you will just 'finish' the game and stop playing. You really want to be using the same gear today as you will be using in two years?
Cat is also adding path of the titans, which is another way to advance your character once you hit lvl 85,
But the majority of WOW, and every other MMORPGs advancement system involves new tiers of gear. But in WOW's case, they make it much easier to catch up and only ever be one tier behind (both pvp and pve)... which means you become a viable raid member.
And again, the only time your 'gear score' comes into play is if you are a complete stranger to the guild. In the vast majority of guilds, it's more about your social interactions and your ability to play your class that will get you into the guild.
Im not resubbing, but am interested in hearing others impressions after they do.
I didn't come back for lich king, nor will I come back for cat.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
Unless CAT makes the general world more than a waiting lobby to get in arenas or BGs or what ever they call them now, I will not be going back. Cat seems like a gimmick. Wish it worked for me.
1. It is not the nature of any MMORPG. Advancement, perhaps, through gear, no. There is no 'need' to 'add the next tier'. Your highlighted sentence contradicts the gear advancement angle you use 4 sentences prior. (And for what it's worth, it took me nearly two years to replace some of the gear I got from DM/UBRS, which was fine.) Enter the concept of AA's, for example, which are wildly popular in some MMORPGs, as a method of advancement wholely not involving gear.
2. How easy gear is to obtain, and the *lifecycle* of it defines the treadmill. As previously stated, it sure is easy to catch up! But damn is it the same pace once you do catch up. Compared to yore, when it might have been harder to catch up, but once you did, you were good, there was no more treadmill necessary. [ Gear validity : time invested to obtain gear ] was much more favorable then, than is now.
3. Your third paragraph reads wrong. 'In WoW, and the majority of other AAA MMORPG's... ' would be a much more acute statement. Regards to being a viable raid member was referenced in my previous post, so it holds no more validity here than there.
4. Gotta get your foot in the door somewhere. The point being, 'gearscore' is a common occurance and can't be brushed aside as if it doesn't matter to the community *at large*.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
Ability to play your class meant little once AOE tanking was put in.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
already have my pre orders in heh. Can't wait for it to come out honestly.
been playing since it released and am still having a blast. i'm sure they'll have plenty resub, i have several friends that havn't played in over a year ready to jump back in it.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I will never support CAT....I am a dog man all the way.....death to cats.....what are we talking about again?
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.