"I think people are going to pleased and a bit surprised with what we're doing in terms of the game, how we make it, and even how we sell and support it."
please, just stop. nobody wants more crappy p2p mmos. this is why i went f2p because at least then if the game sucks, i didn't spend $50 on the box and another 15 on a months sub.
Sigh... there is one sucker born every minute, and Bill Roper is right on time...
"Oh no... not you again Jar Jar Roper..."
But on the bright side, they managed to unite almost all the MMO community agreeing on a thing, and if thats no accomplishment I don't know what is.
On a higher level, it is also childish. Roper is like a little girl, saying, oohhh I have a secret, but I dont tell neener neener.. AS IF WE CARE! The only reason we even LISTEN is, because everyone is afraid Craptic had his personal favoured IP to be butchered. Here is the news, Jar Jar Roper: a good MMO CAN NOT BE MADE IN SHORT TIME. Period! Good MMos need years of development and a company solely devoted to that one MMO! So whatever it is, however you do it: YOU CAN KEEP IT!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Sigh... there is one sucker born every minute, and Bill Roper is right on time...
"Oh no... not you again Jar Jar Roper..."
But on the bright side, they managed to unite almost all the MMO community agreeing on a thing, and if thats no accomplishment I don't know what is.
On a higher level, it is also childish. Roper is like a little girl, saying, oohhh I have a secret, but I dont tell neener neener.. AS IF WE CARE! The only reason we even LISTEN is, because everyone is afraid Craptic had his personal favoured IP to be butchered. Here is the news, Jar Jar Roper: a good MMO CAN NOT BE MADE IN SHORT TIME. Period! Good MMos need years of development and a company solely devoted to that one MMO! So whatever it is, however you do it: YOU CAN KEEP IT!
I'm no fan of Roper either. Just had to point out the disgusting hypocrisy here, where you call Bill Roper childish, and then proceed to make taunting insults that belong on a playground. Well done, man.
Sigh... there is one sucker born every minute, and Bill Roper is right on time...
"Oh no... not you again Jar Jar Roper..."
But on the bright side, they managed to unite almost all the MMO community agreeing on a thing, and if thats no accomplishment I don't know what is.
On a higher level, it is also childish. Roper is like a little girl, saying, oohhh I have a secret, but I dont tell neener neener.. AS IF WE CARE! The only reason we even LISTEN is, because everyone is afraid Craptic had his personal favoured IP to be butchered. Here is the news, Jar Jar Roper: a good MMO CAN NOT BE MADE IN SHORT TIME. Period! Good MMos need years of development and a company solely devoted to that one MMO! So whatever it is, however you do it: YOU CAN KEEP IT!
I'm no fan of Roper either. Just had to point out the disgusting hypocrisy here, where you call Bill Roper childish, and then proceed to make taunting insults that belong on a playground. Well done, man.
*holds ears* LA LAA LAAA... I CANT HEAR YOU!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I played CO back during open beta, I actually thought it was good aside from some obvious PvP imbalance. I would have continued playing, but Cataclysm brought back my interest in WoW and a friend offered to RAF with me back in September of last year, so I didn't stick around. I can't comment on whatever big change they did at launch. But I will say that it sounds to me like a really stupid decision, trying to fix difficulty related complaints with one radical change that occurs on launch day is a terrible idea. Seriously, alterations such as that are what beta is supposed to be used for.
Back on topic, still, I don't hold any grudges against Cryptic. I've always like the idea of a Neverwinter Nights or Forgotten Relams. Still, they don't have a track record of success lately, so I am concerned, yet optimistic, about them getting ahold of that IP.
Preorder hype, lots of useless fluff on offer depending on where you buy it from.
Lifetime subs (limited time only!) priced slightly higher than what the mugs...I mean customers paid for STO.
6 month sub options at launch.
Great character customisation.
Heavily instanced, 1 server, multiple shards.
Hobbled running animations, combat coparitive to wading through treacle
Lots of nice but ultimately meaningless skill choices and power options
Shiny graphics using lots of bright colours, cartoony feel to the UI
Mock comic sans text.
Little interation with other players
3 weeks of content...if youre lucky
Bugs.
More bugs.
Horrible imbalances.
Dreadful limited pvp.
Performance of 25fps on high end systems.
Lots of hype interviews about whats coming up or going to happen soon (tm)
Bill Roper interviews, mentioning Diablo (did you know he worked on it?)
Cash shop filled to the brim with stuff players should be getting for free
Nickle and diming
More nickle and diming
Content updates with 90% of it in the cash shop.
Sound about right?
Completely agree with this. Cryptic's biggest problem is they underdeliver and then expect players to spend even more money at the cash shop. I'd be ok if STO or CO followed the Guild Wars model - you get free unlimited play with the box but you can buy expansions or go to the cash store for additional character options or new content.
And don't give me the old "they gotta pay for servers" song and dance because ArenaNet also has to pay for servers.
Cryptic is the equivalent of the underperforming worker demanding a raise from his boss. Demanding Cadillac prices for Pinto services is just insulting.
There have been rumors before that Cryptic is doing an MMO based on the Forgotten Realms franchise. I guess we'll find out if that's true or not by late summer.
According to Atari's financial statements Cryptic was working on a D&D based MMO, but Hasbro's lawsuit to yank the franchise away from Atari put a stop to that. Unless Atari and Hasbro reach some kind of agreement and settle out of court, don't count on Cryptic shoving a NWN MMO out the door anytime soon.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Truly good MMOs are born of commitment and dedication, attention to detail, continuous support, growth and development. Cryptic has proven time and time again that it has no such intentions. Getting ones hopes up this time around is nothing short of foolish.
Truly good MMOs are born of commitment and dedication, attention to detail, continuous support, growth and development. Cryptic has proven time and time again that it has no such intentions. Getting ones hopes up this time around is nothing short of foolish.
/thread
- Ordokai
Harsh words, but I can not disagree. I am quite surprised. I thought they would have all hands full fixing/expanding STO and CO by now.
Truly good MMOs are born of commitment and dedication, attention to detail, continuous support, growth and development. Cryptic has proven time and time again that it has no such intentions. Getting ones hopes up this time around is nothing short of foolish.
/thread
- Ordokai
Harsh words, but I can not disagree. I am quite surprised. I thought they would have all hands full fixing/expanding STO and CO by now.
My point precisely, as of late their competitive strategy has quite obviously been to use as little time and resources as possible, indeed to walk the thin line between product and scam, to push out game after game.
Doing as little as possible to maintain a game, all the while pooling their resources to start creating the next one almost straight away. The suits probably decided that its easier and more lucrative dish-out and milk lots of weak games from the start (life-time subs, collectors editions etc.) and just leave them on life-support after as opposed to nurturing and expanding the game in hopes of gaining from a long term playerbase.
An attitude like that does not a virtual world make.
Another fail mmo by cryptic costing 50Euro and being singlepalyer with sub? No thx. If it is realy good then trial or gtfo. No more money for this company.
Wow, I have a really different taste in games than you guys, because for me Champions Online is the best MMO I have played in years. I do find it strange that you all have the same opinions, almost as if you were just following each other instead of thinking for yourselves.
Your right we are we have been assimilated into the collective and all come to the conclusion that we really dislike cryptic and do not want them to destroy another IP.
Haha, well I know that at least in your case you played at least one of the games. What worries me is the folks who say things like "by all accounts their games have been terrible", or who bash Champions based on STO. If I go into an MMO having heard so many bad things, then I will probably give up before giving the game a chance (MMOs have a steep learning curve, especially the complex open build system with Champions).
And why do you assume that they haven't played the games they're talking about? Because they've had bad experiences with and don't like the game(s) that you enjoy?
The thing that makes me puke the most is that if this continues all the small developers like Cryptic will be forced out of producing MMOs, and I will quit the genre because nothing pukes me out more than WoW and ToR type games that play it safe using game design from 30 years ago so that they can appeal to a mass audience. Is that what you guys want? WoW and ToR? Because I promise that is what you are asking for, whether you know it or not. You should think about what all this torch-burning is going to get you in the end: mainstream games designed for TV-watching Facebook-using MTV-listening idiots.
So you think Cryptic is the only smaller MMO developer out there, and if they fail then that's it? They're one of the better known ones, sure... but they're far from the only one. And let it not be forgotten that Cryptic had the backing of a major publisher, NCSoft, to help them - so they were no working entirely independently.
Have you looked through MMORPG.com's MMO list lately at some of the titles in development and who's making them? There are numerous smaller studios working on pretty ambitious projects.... that is unless you're limiting yourself to studios that are well-known.
Cryptic is a small developer, and at least with Champions they did several innovative things, like the open build system. I am so tired of classes, and so ToR makes me puke with their WoW classes. I want innovation, and to have that we need small developers. You guys are helping to make sure that only the largest and most watered down mainstream games get produced in the future. You aren't accomplishing anything good at all.
Hope you're drinking lots of liquids with all the puking you're doing here, wouldn't want to dehydrate yourself.
Seriously, though, your last paragraph does three things:
1. Demonstrates that you're obviously a Cryptic fan which clearly colors your opinions.
2. Shows you have a disdain for so-called mainstream MMOs, which clearly colors your opinions.
3. Demonstrates an ignorance of the MMO landscape and the numerous small/indie developers working on or maintaining ambitious projects in it. Icarus Studios with Fallen Earth. Ryzom was originally designed by and is now maintained by a small studio. Istaria was designed by and now is maintained by a small studio. Eve Online was developed by a small studio and has met with enough success over the years that they've been able to grow and continue improving and expanding on it. There are several others whose names I'm forgetting atm.. and there are more coming down the pike.
Note: Your personal opinion of a given game or its developer does not undermine the fact that it exists, so I really hope you don't try going the "well none of those developers are doing anything I'm interested in, so I don't include them" route, because that would be disingenuous.
Your position of Cryptic being "the last small studio, and if they fail then it's "game over" is completely unsupported and completely disingenuous.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
My point precisely, as of late their competitive strategy has quite obviously been to use as little time and resources as possible, indeed to walk the thin line between product and scam, to push out game after game.
Doing as little as possible to maintain a game, all the while pooling their resources to start creating the next one almost straight away. The suits probably decided that its easier and more lucrative dish-out and milk lots of weak games from the start (life-time subs, collectors editions etc.) and just leave them on life-support after as opposed to nurturing and expanding the game in hopes of gaining from a long term playerbase.
An attitude like that does not a virtual world make.
Unacceptable...
- Ordokai
I am beginning to wonder if Cryptic has decided to go the SOE route and push out a bunch of games as fast as possible, then have something along the lines of the Station Pass. That would allow them to keep a bunch of games on life support like SOE does, and just focus most of their resources on developing a couple of titles.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I am beginning to wonder if Cryptic has decided to go the SOE route and push out a bunch of games as fast as possible, then have something along the lines of the Station Pass. That would allow them to keep a bunch of games on life support like SOE does, and just focus most of their resources on developing a couple of titles.
I could see them offering this much later after release- right now churning out poor/mediocre games and offering lifetime subs seems like more of a moneymaker.
I just read a gaming magazine that claims Cryptic has registered City of Heroes 2. Don't know if its true for sure.
NCSoft registered for the name, which means that Cryptic more than likely will not have anything to do with it.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
To me it's just mind boggling that this guy can still be in the game business. Talk about failing upwards.I never realized that he also had a hand in that pos Hallgate London game as well. No wonder.
We should officially name Bill Roper the Uwe Boll of game designers.
God, I hope it's not based on the neverwinter Nights name, but all the hints point to it.If so, and going by him saying it'll be announced late this summer,look for the news to hit at Gencon this August.
I just read a gaming magazine that claims Cryptic has registered City of Heroes 2. Don't know if its true for sure.
that would have to be the most stupid thing... develop 1 superhero game CoH2 in opposition to your other superhero game CO.. if this is true.. and i still played CO id be severly pissed and feel cheated
Wow, I have a really different taste in games than you guys, because for me Champions Online is the best MMO I have played in years. I do find it strange that you all have the same opinions, almost as if you were just following each other instead of thinking for yourselves.
Your right we are we have been assimilated into the collective and all come to the conclusion that we really dislike cryptic and do not want them to destroy another IP.
Haha, well I know that at least in your case you played at least one of the games. What worries me is the folks who say things like "by all accounts their games have been terrible", or who bash Champions based on STO. If I go into an MMO having heard so many bad things, then I will probably give up before giving the game a chance (MMOs have a steep learning curve, especially the complex open build system with Champions).
And why do you assume that they haven't played the games they're talking about? Because they've had bad experiences with and don't like the game(s) that you enjoy?
The thing that makes me puke the most is that if this continues all the small developers like Cryptic will be forced out of producing MMOs, and I will quit the genre because nothing pukes me out more than WoW and ToR type games that play it safe using game design from 30 years ago so that they can appeal to a mass audience. Is that what you guys want? WoW and ToR? Because I promise that is what you are asking for, whether you know it or not. You should think about what all this torch-burning is going to get you in the end: mainstream games designed for TV-watching Facebook-using MTV-listening idiots.
So you think Cryptic is the only smaller MMO developer out there, and if they fail then that's it? They're one of the better known ones, sure... but they're far from the only one. And let it not be forgotten that Cryptic had the backing of a major publisher, NCSoft, to help them - so they were no working entirely independently.
Have you looked through MMORPG.com's MMO list lately at some of the titles in development and who's making them? There are numerous smaller studios working on pretty ambitious projects.... that is unless you're limiting yourself to studios that are well-known.
Cryptic is a small developer, and at least with Champions they did several innovative things, like the open build system. I am so tired of classes, and so ToR makes me puke with their WoW classes. I want innovation, and to have that we need small developers. You guys are helping to make sure that only the largest and most watered down mainstream games get produced in the future. You aren't accomplishing anything good at all.
Hope you're drinking lots of liquids with all the puking you're doing here, wouldn't want to dehydrate yourself.
Seriously, though, your last paragraph does three things:
1. Demonstrates that you're obviously a Cryptic fan which clearly colors your opinions.
2. Shows you have a disdain for so-called mainstream MMOs, which clearly colors your opinions.
3. Demonstrates an ignorance of the MMO landscape and the numerous small/indie developers working on or maintaining ambitious projects in it. Icarus Studios with Fallen Earth. Ryzom was originally designed by and is now maintained by a small studio. Istaria was designed by and now is maintained by a small studio. Eve Online was developed by a small studio and has met with enough success over the years that they've been able to grow and continue improving and expanding on it. There are several others whose names I'm forgetting atm.. and there are more coming down the pike.
Note: Your personal opinion of a given game or its developer does not undermine the fact that it exists, so I really hope you don't try going the "well none of those developers are doing anything I'm interested in, so I don't include them" route, because that would be disingenuous.
Your position of Cryptic being "the last small studio, and if they fail then it's "game over" is completely unsupported and completely disingenuous.
I agree with Meromorph, most people are putting both game in the same sack, and that is actually unfair. Maybe, because a good group of people waiting for STO, had to play CO just for the beta thing, which imho was a mistake from cryptic since I bet most of these people didn't like superhero games anyway, so for them CO is bad because it is not the niche they actually belong to.
As for the small company claims, using Eve as example is not necessarily fair, Eve success was in the opportunity to catch the niche market and after the fall of SWG I guess they received a bunch of exiles from there. While Eve is not my type of game it looks that they made a good environment but their success is partially situational. There days, with the economic crisis and all these bunch of f2p available, the chances for newly mmos from small developers are pretty low. Bioware is taking a big bet with SWTOR if they don't get a significant part of the market it will mean that costly developed games don't worth the investment and the following trend will be low budget mmos. From what i see in this site SWTOR is being already being attacked and it worries me that it goes to the fate of AoC or WAR, i think they are trying to get the game right in spite of the chance of releasing after the next wow expansion. AoC and WAR tried to do that beat WotLK release and made a premature release. Bioware might tried the opposite to see, let's see if that actually works.
Game 3 will be the same engine as CO and STO, just reskined. EPIC FAIL in my opinion.. I didn't spend one dime on STO (thanks to my good judgement) and because of the pooch job on STO, I won't even consider game 3.. Until I see many chief execs get their pink slips to unemployment, I'll boycott all Cryptic games
Comments
Similar to STO?
please, just stop. nobody wants more crappy p2p mmos. this is why i went f2p because at least then if the game sucks, i didn't spend $50 on the box and another 15 on a months sub.
Sigh... there is one sucker born every minute, and Bill Roper is right on time...
"Oh no... not you again Jar Jar Roper..."
But on the bright side, they managed to unite almost all the MMO community agreeing on a thing, and if thats no accomplishment I don't know what is.
On a higher level, it is also childish. Roper is like a little girl, saying, oohhh I have a secret, but I dont tell neener neener.. AS IF WE CARE! The only reason we even LISTEN is, because everyone is afraid Craptic had his personal favoured IP to be butchered. Here is the news, Jar Jar Roper: a good MMO CAN NOT BE MADE IN SHORT TIME. Period! Good MMos need years of development and a company solely devoted to that one MMO! So whatever it is, however you do it: YOU CAN KEEP IT!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I'm no fan of Roper either. Just had to point out the disgusting hypocrisy here, where you call Bill Roper childish, and then proceed to make taunting insults that belong on a playground. Well done, man.
*holds ears* LA LAA LAAA... I CANT HEAR YOU!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I played CO back during open beta, I actually thought it was good aside from some obvious PvP imbalance. I would have continued playing, but Cataclysm brought back my interest in WoW and a friend offered to RAF with me back in September of last year, so I didn't stick around. I can't comment on whatever big change they did at launch. But I will say that it sounds to me like a really stupid decision, trying to fix difficulty related complaints with one radical change that occurs on launch day is a terrible idea. Seriously, alterations such as that are what beta is supposed to be used for.
Back on topic, still, I don't hold any grudges against Cryptic. I've always like the idea of a Neverwinter Nights or Forgotten Relams. Still, they don't have a track record of success lately, so I am concerned, yet optimistic, about them getting ahold of that IP.
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Fortune favours the bold.
Completely agree with this. Cryptic's biggest problem is they underdeliver and then expect players to spend even more money at the cash shop. I'd be ok if STO or CO followed the Guild Wars model - you get free unlimited play with the box but you can buy expansions or go to the cash store for additional character options or new content.
And don't give me the old "they gotta pay for servers" song and dance because ArenaNet also has to pay for servers.
Cryptic is the equivalent of the underperforming worker demanding a raise from his boss. Demanding Cadillac prices for Pinto services is just insulting.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
According to Atari's financial statements Cryptic was working on a D&D based MMO, but Hasbro's lawsuit to yank the franchise away from Atari put a stop to that. Unless Atari and Hasbro reach some kind of agreement and settle out of court, don't count on Cryptic shoving a NWN MMO out the door anytime soon.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Truly good MMOs are born of commitment and dedication, attention to detail, continuous support, growth and development. Cryptic has proven time and time again that it has no such intentions. Getting ones hopes up this time around is nothing short of foolish.
/thread
- Ordokai
Harsh words, but I can not disagree. I am quite surprised. I thought they would have all hands full fixing/expanding STO and CO by now.
My point precisely, as of late their competitive strategy has quite obviously been to use as little time and resources as possible, indeed to walk the thin line between product and scam, to push out game after game.
Doing as little as possible to maintain a game, all the while pooling their resources to start creating the next one almost straight away. The suits probably decided that its easier and more lucrative dish-out and milk lots of weak games from the start (life-time subs, collectors editions etc.) and just leave them on life-support after as opposed to nurturing and expanding the game in hopes of gaining from a long term playerbase.
An attitude like that does not a virtual world make.
Unacceptable...
- Ordokai
Another fail mmo by cryptic costing 50Euro and being singlepalyer with sub? No thx. If it is realy good then trial or gtfo. No more money for this company.
So cryptic is making another mmo... they have alot of nerve lol after the last 2.. /sigh
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I am beginning to wonder if Cryptic has decided to go the SOE route and push out a bunch of games as fast as possible, then have something along the lines of the Station Pass. That would allow them to keep a bunch of games on life support like SOE does, and just focus most of their resources on developing a couple of titles.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I could see them offering this much later after release- right now churning out poor/mediocre games and offering lifetime subs seems like more of a moneymaker.
Yet another Cryptic MMO eh...great just what the world needs. More trash.
I just read a gaming magazine that claims Cryptic has registered City of Heroes 2. Don't know if its true for sure.
Yep CoH2 NCSoft filed April 6th for the trademark for the name
The big MMO companies have officially Lost their minds.
NCSoft registered for the name, which means that Cryptic more than likely will not have anything to do with it.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
To me it's just mind boggling that this guy can still be in the game business. Talk about failing upwards.I never realized that he also had a hand in that pos Hallgate London game as well. No wonder.
We should officially name Bill Roper the Uwe Boll of game designers.
God, I hope it's not based on the neverwinter Nights name, but all the hints point to it.If so, and going by him saying it'll be announced late this summer,look for the news to hit at Gencon this August.
that would have to be the most stupid thing... develop 1 superhero game CoH2 in opposition to your other superhero game CO.. if this is true.. and i still played CO id be severly pissed and feel cheated
I agree with Meromorph, most people are putting both game in the same sack, and that is actually unfair. Maybe, because a good group of people waiting for STO, had to play CO just for the beta thing, which imho was a mistake from cryptic since I bet most of these people didn't like superhero games anyway, so for them CO is bad because it is not the niche they actually belong to.
As for the small company claims, using Eve as example is not necessarily fair, Eve success was in the opportunity to catch the niche market and after the fall of SWG I guess they received a bunch of exiles from there. While Eve is not my type of game it looks that they made a good environment but their success is partially situational. There days, with the economic crisis and all these bunch of f2p available, the chances for newly mmos from small developers are pretty low. Bioware is taking a big bet with SWTOR if they don't get a significant part of the market it will mean that costly developed games don't worth the investment and the following trend will be low budget mmos. From what i see in this site SWTOR is being already being attacked and it worries me that it goes to the fate of AoC or WAR, i think they are trying to get the game right in spite of the chance of releasing after the next wow expansion. AoC and WAR tried to do that beat WotLK release and made a premature release. Bioware might tried the opposite to see, let's see if that actually works.
Game 3 will be the same engine as CO and STO, just reskined. EPIC FAIL in my opinion.. I didn't spend one dime on STO (thanks to my good judgement) and because of the pooch job on STO, I won't even consider game 3.. Until I see many chief execs get their pink slips to unemployment, I'll boycott all Cryptic games