The biggest change we've seen compared with the early MMO's is the focus on quests, to the point where some (not including me) hate them, and groupers complain they prevent people teaming up. My only frustration with quests is that I'd like greater variety and more of a story-based questline rather than too much reliance on whack-a-mole and fed-ex quests.
The switch from sandbox MMO's to theme park ones is all part of the cyclical nature of the genre, and I imagine we're heading back towards the sandbox games again for the future.
However, to every person who wants innovation, new types of quest, an original class, a different form of advancement, and so on, I always ask a simple question - "such as?" - and they never have a fully thought through suggestion. Don't you think developers would love to come up with the next big thing because they'd thought of something new or original? The trouble is, they don't know how - and nor do the players when asked. Richard Garriott had a whole new line on moral quests, but how many were there in Tabula Rasa when it launched? One? Two? Three maybe?
I actually love the genre in its present form. As a solo PvE player occasionally grouping up with a RL friend I find the present crop of MMO's still hugely entertaining notwithstanding I've been playing CRPG's since '83 and MMORPG's since '98. With my grouping and guilding days behind me I'm still regularly getting a lot of pleasure out of games such as EQ2, LoTRO, WoW, WAR and DDO Unlimited, with my time currently spent on AoC and Fallen Earth. I still find a level of freshness in such games despite all the doomsaying and trolling. Far from there being no decent games around today, I find there are too many to fit in to my free time notwithstanding that I'm semi-retired. Perhaps they stay fresh for me because I rotate between them and enjoy the journey with no sense that I need to rush to the endgame (whatever that may be).
My best advice to anyone considering playing a MMO for the first time would be - read the boards and pick a game, then play it, but don't visit the boards again! You'll find far more negativity on a board than you'll ever find inside a game. Play and enjoy, or quit and move on!
The lesson I draw from this for Everquest Next is that SOE don't need to re-invent the wheel in order to produce a successful game, they just need to produce a high quality game that runs smoothly on most machines and which is supported by a decent quality customer support based around an honest business model, with a high level of communication between developer and community. Within that list are the main areas where SOE fall down at present, but there's no reason why they can't turn things around and restore Norrath to its rightful place at the heart of the MMORPG world!
Thats exactly what I said above, in the part you quoted. Vanguard was published before it was ready, and thats why it had, among other things, a lot of bugs, lack of highlevel content, etc. Thanks to the state of the game, it failed. If you can learn anything from Vanguard, then its that you shouldnt publish unpolished games. Ever. Unless you like failures.
I find that true of Vanguard, as it was not a well known IP. SWG had a horrid launch too, I actually waited a few months before buying in, I wasn’t in the mood to pay to beta test. But I did buy it because it was “Star Wars”. But I quit when they released NGE, as it dumbed down the game like all the new games. The new SW game, well no plans to buy it, it’s just another NGE. Vanguard would have maybe done well if it polished before launch.
As i remember, EQ is mostly a bunch of hunting place to kill mobs for xp. There is nil story in most of the places and i wouldn't call mobs standing around to be killed a lot of content.
That is of course pertaining to the leveling experience.
I would say that getting to the good camp spots was half the fun. Most of the zones were pretty massive and fun to navigate. Also I still prefer sitting around at a good camp chatting, then repeatedly powering through the same couple instances.
It's true that questing wasn't a viable way to gain experience and didn't involve much story. Quests usually just added an extra chance at some coin or fun trinket. There was story and plenty of lore for those interested in it.
As for eq3, I am not sure it would be what the old eq crowd is looking for. Even Eq live right now has little in common the original eq. Nothing but tasks, instant travel, corpse summons, taking away from the experience.
Vanguard had some great dungeon crawls that moved away from the single spawn camps, but there were many other issues that prevented me from playing longer then a couple months at a time.
I would say that getting to the good camp spots was half the fun. Most of the zones were pretty massive and fun to navigate. Also I still prefer sitting around at a good camp chatting, then repeatedly powering through the same couple instances.
hah yeah, that was serious fun, sometimes even joining groups to cross a few zones to get to our destination. I actually had fun when I got absolutely lost, it made it all so real; a living breathing expansive world, even though it was zoned. I was a bit disappointed when they introduced the cartography maps, never got lost again(EQ1).
hah yeah, that was serious fun, sometimes even joining groups to cross a few zones to get to our destination. I actually had fun when I got absolutely lost, it made it all so real; a living breathing expansive world, even though it was zoned. I was a bit disappointed when they introduced the cartography maps, never got lost again.
i was talking with my brother about that same thing the other day. I felt like a fool sometimes after getting the map system and realizing I had memorized zones all backwards, and always seemed to take the longest route to get through certain zones. Maps sure made getting places quicker and easier, but we lost a lot of the exploration factor too.
I would say that getting to the good camp spots was half the fun. Most of the zones were pretty massive and fun to navigate. Also I still prefer sitting around at a good camp chatting, then repeatedly powering through the same couple instances.
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
And if i want to chat, i go onto MSN. When i am in a MMO, i want to PLAY a game, preferably with a group.
There is a reason why no MMO would use this kind of camping mechanics anymore. It is no fun for MOST (and apparently not you) people.
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
What are you talking about? Most would just log there. We would destroy our copper, camp for days. You are thinking of instanced zones/NGE where you pass through countless times no doubt. MMO's were nothing like that. Sounds like the marketing hype like LOTRO tried to pass onto players early on to quit their games and sub to theirs, and that other game marketers have used time and time again. Just marketing misinformation to get that hook in your mouth.
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
What are you talking about? Most would just log there. We would destroy our copper, camp for days. You are thinking of instanced zones/NGE where you pass through countless times no doubt. MMO's were nothing like that. Sounds like the marketing hype like LOTRO tried to pass onto players early on to quit their games and sub to theirs, and that other game marketers have used time and time again. Just marketing misinformation to get that hook in your mouth.
Well .. that is not how i remember EQ. First of all, camping at the same spot for days is ultraly BORING. Secondly, there are reasons to go around .. like go to east common tunnel to buy/sell something.
EQ WAS like that. I ran though MANY of the zones MANY times. It was very boring after a few times and i quit after 1 year.
You`re all basicly asking for something new, like eq1 brought to the table in its time. Give it some time, it will come. Not yet, though. Wait for VR, 3D. Right now we`re just milking an genre that hit the mass public in 1999, gave us a new expirence then, wich was thrilling, develeopers cant recreate that feeling by polishing graphics or mechanics....
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
And if i want to chat, i go onto MSN. When i am in a MMO, i want to PLAY a game, preferably with a group.
There is a reason why no MMO would use this kind of camping mechanics anymore. It is no fun for MOST (and apparently not you) people.
I am not against fast travel, original EQ had portals. PoK books in every zone is where I considered it overkill. I rather liked wows lfg tool too a degree, but theres much I dislike about it too . I guess I just don't see the difference between porting to todays daily dungeon and getting a portal to a zone like sebilis or guk and fighting down to the bottom. You weren't forced to stay in one place for hours any more then blizzard forces you to use the lfg tool. Also, I've always believed MMO's to be a social game, what is so wrong with wanting game mechanics that support community interaction.
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
What are you talking about? Most would just log there. We would destroy our copper, camp for days. You are thinking of instanced zones/NGE where you pass through countless times no doubt. MMO's were nothing like that. Sounds like the marketing hype like LOTRO tried to pass onto players early on to quit their games and sub to theirs, and that other game marketers have used time and time again. Just marketing misinformation to get that hook in your mouth.
Well .. that is not how i remember EQ. First of all, camping at the same spot for days is ultraly BORING. Secondly, there are reasons to go around .. like go to east common tunnel to buy/sell something.
EQ WAS like that. I ran though MANY of the zones MANY times. It was very boring after a few times and i quit after 1 year.
Well I played for about 5 years, never found it boring. Boring is restarting an instance again and again, same deal but void of other players. That's why I wound up uninstalling EQ, soo much instant travel and instances, and thus it became a ghost town, or close to it. Maybe you complained to them, they listened, but you left, now few play after the changes. But there is always WoW and it's clones, eh? heh
You`re all basicly asking for something new, like eq1 brought to the table in its time
I don't know- I think there is an element that EQ was a bit of a hangout place, and was appealling being a kind of world people chose to hang out in. People don't want to hang out in EQ now since its a complete eyesore, so an EQ3 might be welcome in this regard- especially in light of old EQ fans. Although the likelihood is some of these people have gone to LOTRO which is a finally crafted fantasy world.
I don't see an Everquest 3 coming because of an unclear and uncertain future of PC games. The paradigm is shifting right now to the Web and the platform of the future will be the web connected by TV, PC/MAC, Smartphones, and any other platform created that will probably involve Linux due to the scalability and how easy you can modify it to your liking. We are heading in a direction will be dominated by Web Applications and to not see this would be a severe loss of investment if not sure enough about how the technology of the platform used in the future for games.
I don't see an Everquest 3 coming because of an unclear and uncertain future of PC games. The paradigm is shifting right now to the Web and the platform of the future will be the web connected by TV, PC/MAC, Smartphones, and any other platform created that will probably involve Linux due to the scalability and how easy you can modify it to your liking. We are heading in a direction will be dominated by Web Applications and to not see this would be a severe loss of investment if not sure enough about how the technology of the platform used in the future for games.
Well Mr Nostradamus, that may be true, but we still have many years of pc gaming ahead of us. That argument was also raised when consoles were release and with other things.
The fact is that I dont want an Everquest 3 to be developed right now, not by THIS SoE at least
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
What are you talking about? Most would just log there. We would destroy our copper, camp for days. You are thinking of instanced zones/NGE where you pass through countless times no doubt. MMO's were nothing like that. Sounds like the marketing hype like LOTRO tried to pass onto players early on to quit their games and sub to theirs, and that other game marketers have used time and time again. Just marketing misinformation to get that hook in your mouth.
Well .. that is not how i remember EQ. First of all, camping at the same spot for days is ultraly BORING. Secondly, there are reasons to go around .. like go to east common tunnel to buy/sell something.
EQ WAS like that. I ran though MANY of the zones MANY times. It was very boring after a few times and i quit after 1 year.
Well I played for about 5 years, never found it boring. Boring is restarting an instance again and again, same deal but void of other players. That's why I wound up uninstalling EQ, soo much instant travel and instances, and thus it became a ghost town, or close to it. Maybe you complained to them, they listened, but you left, now few play after the changes. But there is always WoW and it's clones, eh? heh
5 players (or 10/25 depends on the dungeon) are way enough. One group going through a dungeon >>>>>> taking a number and wait in line with 50. If you are with a group, the instance is not "void" with other players. In fact, a dungeon wont feel rigth if it is like a mall during xmas shopping season.
Oh, i am sure EQ listened .. it is OBVIOUS where the trend is .. and what players want. They just listen too LATE for me to care. I left after player Kunark for a while .. and nothing changes. 200 people camping for the same spawn. Thank you WOW makes MMO a fun GAME again.
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
What are you talking about? Most would just log there. We would destroy our copper, camp for days. You are thinking of instanced zones/NGE where you pass through countless times no doubt. MMO's were nothing like that. Sounds like the marketing hype like LOTRO tried to pass onto players early on to quit their games and sub to theirs, and that other game marketers have used time and time again. Just marketing misinformation to get that hook in your mouth.
Well .. that is not how i remember EQ. First of all, camping at the same spot for days is ultraly BORING. Secondly, there are reasons to go around .. like go to east common tunnel to buy/sell something.
EQ WAS like that. I ran though MANY of the zones MANY times. It was very boring after a few times and i quit after 1 year.
Well I played for about 5 years, never found it boring. Boring is restarting an instance again and again, same deal but void of other players. That's why I wound up uninstalling EQ, soo much instant travel and instances, and thus it became a ghost town, or close to it. Maybe you complained to them, they listened, but you left, now few play after the changes. But there is always WoW and it's clones, eh? heh
5 players (or 10/25 depends on the dungeon) are way enough. One group going through a dungeon >>>>>> taking a number and wait in line with 50. If you are with a group, the instance is not "void" with other players. In fact, a dungeon wont feel rigth if it is like a mall during xmas shopping season.
Oh, i am sure EQ listened .. it is OBVIOUS where the trend is .. and what players want. They just listen too LATE for me to care. I left after player Kunark for a while .. and nothing changes. 200 people camping for the same spawn. Thank you WOW makes MMO a fun GAME again.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
LOL .. apparently you have NOT played EQ. I was there. We camped for SIX hours, and doing a camp check every 30 min .. probably get to kill the boss like 5-6 times. If that is not waiting in line .. nothing is.
The wait is 10x WORSE than instanced games. Oh, may be not today since EQ has no population. I am talking about in 1999 where EQ is still popular.
Plus, there is not that much wait for an instance game. I just check my dungeon finder and usually i got in with about 10 min wait. The other advantage is that you can just start the wait and keep on doing what you want. No need to try to find a group (by yelling or what not) every 10 sec.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
LOL .. apparently you have NOT played EQ. I was there. We camped for SIX hours, and doing a camp check every 30 min .. probably get to kill the boss like 5-6 times. If that is not waiting in line .. nothing is.
The wait is 10x WORSE than instanced games. Oh, may be not today since EQ has no population. I am talking about in 1999 where EQ is still popular.
Plus, there is not that much wait for an instance game. I just check my dungeon finder and usually i got in with about 10 min wait. The other advantage is that you can just start the wait and keep on doing what you want. No need to try to find a group (by yelling or what not) every 10 sec.
lalz sed teh WoW play3r.
I never ever waited hours. Avg 5 minutes. Between launch and some time after PoP. However, there were times we would ignore some players for a spot, players we knew and we didn't want in. When you hunt regular spots, you get to know the regulars hunters, and who you don't want in. Maybe my game was social compared to yours. Guess that's why they made WoW and games you must cycle through so many groups to do anything, so bad players get a break.
Shoot, I’d practically get mugged at times to join groups when I’d show up in a zone. Thank god for WoW, eh?
MMOs are starting to loose their luster, they're being made to easy, and they're going heavy on the flashy graphics with little content to the stories. I miss actual content and quests that were more then just go x and kill y. I complain about selling a game on graphics, though I'll admit I can't stay interested in the old games anymore because I have seen what they can look like.
I have recently started missing Everquest's story and huge amount of content. There doesn't seem to be any news of a new one, but wouldn't it be nice?
They have a great story, they could make a great game again, or they could remake an old giant with a new look.
I'd like to think im not alone in wanting a fresh new look at Norrath, and a game worth devoting time to.
As i remember, EQ is mostly a bunch of hunting place to kill mobs for xp. There is nil story in most of the places and i wouldn't call mobs standing around to be killed a lot of content.
That is of course pertaining to the leveling experience.
I was gonna say...I did more quests in WoW on my first day than I did in 4 years of Everquest. I've never played a game more about the mindless grind than Everquest.
All a MMO needs is fun classes and fun combat. It sounds simple but once the developers start these games they get a million different ideas they think players will like and it just winds up dragging the whole thing down.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
LOL .. apparently you have NOT played EQ. I was there. We camped for SIX hours, and doing a camp check every 30 min .. probably get to kill the boss like 5-6 times. If that is not waiting in line .. nothing is.
The wait is 10x WORSE than instanced games. Oh, may be not today since EQ has no population. I am talking about in 1999 where EQ is still popular.
Plus, there is not that much wait for an instance game. I just check my dungeon finder and usually i got in with about 10 min wait. The other advantage is that you can just start the wait and keep on doing what you want. No need to try to find a group (by yelling or what not) every 10 sec.
lalz sed teh WoW play3r.
I never ever waited hours. Avg 5 minutes. Between launch and some time after PoP. However, there were times we would ignore some players for a spot, players we knew and we didn't want in. When you hunt regular spots, you get to know the regulars hunters, and who you don't want in. Maybe my game was social compared to yours. Guess that's why they made WoW and games you must cycle through so many groups to do anything, so bad players get a break.
Shoot, I’d practically get mugged at times to join groups when I’d show up in a zone. Thank god for WoW, eh?
If you never camp for hours .. that means either a) you never get anything good, or b) you never play while EQ was popualr (i played in its FIRST year) when the population was high.
And YES .. THANK GOD for WOW. It is 10x the game EQ was .. and the game i have been waiting for when i played EQ. I always wonder how much MORE fun it would be running a dungeon with just my group and no camping, and no facing a stupid spellbook for 10 min recovering mana.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
LOL .. apparently you have NOT played EQ. I was there. We camped for SIX hours, and doing a camp check every 30 min .. probably get to kill the boss like 5-6 times. If that is not waiting in line .. nothing is.
The wait is 10x WORSE than instanced games. Oh, may be not today since EQ has no population. I am talking about in 1999 where EQ is still popular.
Plus, there is not that much wait for an instance game. I just check my dungeon finder and usually i got in with about 10 min wait. The other advantage is that you can just start the wait and keep on doing what you want. No need to try to find a group (by yelling or what not) every 10 sec.
lalz sed teh WoW play3r.
I never ever waited hours. Avg 5 minutes. Between launch and some time after PoP. However, there were times we would ignore some players for a spot, players we knew and we didn't want in. When you hunt regular spots, you get to know the regulars hunters, and who you don't want in. Maybe my game was social compared to yours. Guess that's why they made WoW and games you must cycle through so many groups to do anything, so bad players get a break.
Shoot, I’d practically get mugged at times to join groups when I’d show up in a zone. Thank god for WoW, eh?
If you never camp for hours .. that means either a) you never get anything good, or b) you never play while EQ was popualr (i played in its FIRST year) when the population was high.
And YES .. THANK GOD for WOW. It is 10x the game EQ was .. and the game i have been waiting for when i played EQ. I always wonder how much MORE fun it would be running a dungeon with just my group and no camping, and no facing a stupid spellbook for 10 min recovering mana.
Camping is not standing in line, make up your mind. Standing in line is waiting for a camp position, a group position. Camping is not waiting for anything. Camp check is when you are not camping, whether or not you are already in a group.
The diff between EQ and camping, WoW and instanced dungeon finders is this:
WoW you use dungeon finder to find a group.
EQ you use friends list to find a group.
Dungeon finder is not selective, but you are out on your own if you cant get on friend lists thus wait in line, sometimes always at the back of the line. Just like in school, some kids were always last to be picked for a team, and they would only get picked if we had to pick them. EQ, there were no lines.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
LOL .. apparently you have NOT played EQ. I was there. We camped for SIX hours, and doing a camp check every 30 min .. probably get to kill the boss like 5-6 times. If that is not waiting in line .. nothing is.
The wait is 10x WORSE than instanced games. Oh, may be not today since EQ has no population. I am talking about in 1999 where EQ is still popular.
Plus, there is not that much wait for an instance game. I just check my dungeon finder and usually i got in with about 10 min wait. The other advantage is that you can just start the wait and keep on doing what you want. No need to try to find a group (by yelling or what not) every 10 sec.
lalz sed teh WoW play3r.
I never ever waited hours. Avg 5 minutes. Between launch and some time after PoP. However, there were times we would ignore some players for a spot, players we knew and we didn't want in. When you hunt regular spots, you get to know the regulars hunters, and who you don't want in. Maybe my game was social compared to yours. Guess that's why they made WoW and games you must cycle through so many groups to do anything, so bad players get a break.
Shoot, I’d practically get mugged at times to join groups when I’d show up in a zone. Thank god for WoW, eh?
If you never camp for hours .. that means either a) you never get anything good, or b) you never play while EQ was popualr (i played in its FIRST year) when the population was high.
And YES .. THANK GOD for WOW. It is 10x the game EQ was .. and the game i have been waiting for when i played EQ. I always wonder how much MORE fun it would be running a dungeon with just my group and no camping, and no facing a stupid spellbook for 10 min recovering mana.
Camping is not standing in line, make up your mind. Standing in line is waiting for a camp position, a group position. Camping is not waiting for anything. Camp check is when you are not camping, whether or not you are already in a group.
The diff between EQ and camping, WoW and instanced dungeon finders is this:
WoW you use dungeon finder to find a group.
EQ you use friends list to find a group.
Dungeon finder is not selective, but you are out on your own if you cant get on friend lists thus wait in line, sometimes always at the back of the line. Just like in school, some kids were always last to be picked for a team, and they would only get picked if we had to pick them. EQ, there were no lines.
Camping IS standing in line. 10 groups camp a boss. Each group take turn. Not you turn, you wait .. if that is NOT waiting in line, what is?
Comments
The biggest change we've seen compared with the early MMO's is the focus on quests, to the point where some (not including me) hate them, and groupers complain they prevent people teaming up. My only frustration with quests is that I'd like greater variety and more of a story-based questline rather than too much reliance on whack-a-mole and fed-ex quests.
The switch from sandbox MMO's to theme park ones is all part of the cyclical nature of the genre, and I imagine we're heading back towards the sandbox games again for the future.
However, to every person who wants innovation, new types of quest, an original class, a different form of advancement, and so on, I always ask a simple question - "such as?" - and they never have a fully thought through suggestion. Don't you think developers would love to come up with the next big thing because they'd thought of something new or original? The trouble is, they don't know how - and nor do the players when asked. Richard Garriott had a whole new line on moral quests, but how many were there in Tabula Rasa when it launched? One? Two? Three maybe?
I actually love the genre in its present form. As a solo PvE player occasionally grouping up with a RL friend I find the present crop of MMO's still hugely entertaining notwithstanding I've been playing CRPG's since '83 and MMORPG's since '98. With my grouping and guilding days behind me I'm still regularly getting a lot of pleasure out of games such as EQ2, LoTRO, WoW, WAR and DDO Unlimited, with my time currently spent on AoC and Fallen Earth. I still find a level of freshness in such games despite all the doomsaying and trolling. Far from there being no decent games around today, I find there are too many to fit in to my free time notwithstanding that I'm semi-retired. Perhaps they stay fresh for me because I rotate between them and enjoy the journey with no sense that I need to rush to the endgame (whatever that may be).
My best advice to anyone considering playing a MMO for the first time would be - read the boards and pick a game, then play it, but don't visit the boards again! You'll find far more negativity on a board than you'll ever find inside a game. Play and enjoy, or quit and move on!
The lesson I draw from this for Everquest Next is that SOE don't need to re-invent the wheel in order to produce a successful game, they just need to produce a high quality game that runs smoothly on most machines and which is supported by a decent quality customer support based around an honest business model, with a high level of communication between developer and community. Within that list are the main areas where SOE fall down at present, but there's no reason why they can't turn things around and restore Norrath to its rightful place at the heart of the MMORPG world!
I find that true of Vanguard, as it was not a well known IP. SWG had a horrid launch too, I actually waited a few months before buying in, I wasn’t in the mood to pay to beta test. But I did buy it because it was “Star Wars”. But I quit when they released NGE, as it dumbed down the game like all the new games. The new SW game, well no plans to buy it, it’s just another NGE. Vanguard would have maybe done well if it polished before launch.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
I would say that getting to the good camp spots was half the fun. Most of the zones were pretty massive and fun to navigate. Also I still prefer sitting around at a good camp chatting, then repeatedly powering through the same couple instances.
It's true that questing wasn't a viable way to gain experience and didn't involve much story. Quests usually just added an extra chance at some coin or fun trinket. There was story and plenty of lore for those interested in it.
As for eq3, I am not sure it would be what the old eq crowd is looking for. Even Eq live right now has little in common the original eq. Nothing but tasks, instant travel, corpse summons, taking away from the experience.
Vanguard had some great dungeon crawls that moved away from the single spawn camps, but there were many other issues that prevented me from playing longer then a couple months at a time.
would be interesting.
hah yeah, that was serious fun, sometimes even joining groups to cross a few zones to get to our destination. I actually had fun when I got absolutely lost, it made it all so real; a living breathing expansive world, even though it was zoned. I was a bit disappointed when they introduced the cartography maps, never got lost again(EQ1).
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
i was talking with my brother about that same thing the other day. I felt like a fool sometimes after getting the map system and realizing I had memorized zones all backwards, and always seemed to take the longest route to get through certain zones. Maps sure made getting places quicker and easier, but we lost a lot of the exploration factor too.
I would say that getting to the good camp spots was half the fun. Most of the zones were pretty massive and fun to navigate. Also I still prefer sitting around at a good camp chatting, then repeatedly powering through the same couple instances.
Not the second time. First time may be novel. The 10th trip out to the same spot is a chore. I much prefer instant teleportation to instances.
And if i want to chat, i go onto MSN. When i am in a MMO, i want to PLAY a game, preferably with a group.
There is a reason why no MMO would use this kind of camping mechanics anymore. It is no fun for MOST (and apparently not you) people.
What are you talking about? Most would just log there. We would destroy our copper, camp for days. You are thinking of instanced zones/NGE where you pass through countless times no doubt. MMO's were nothing like that. Sounds like the marketing hype like LOTRO tried to pass onto players early on to quit their games and sub to theirs, and that other game marketers have used time and time again. Just marketing misinformation to get that hook in your mouth.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Well .. that is not how i remember EQ. First of all, camping at the same spot for days is ultraly BORING. Secondly, there are reasons to go around .. like go to east common tunnel to buy/sell something.
EQ WAS like that. I ran though MANY of the zones MANY times. It was very boring after a few times and i quit after 1 year.
You`re all basicly asking for something new, like eq1 brought to the table in its time. Give it some time, it will come. Not yet, though. Wait for VR, 3D. Right now we`re just milking an genre that hit the mass public in 1999, gave us a new expirence then, wich was thrilling, develeopers cant recreate that feeling by polishing graphics or mechanics....
I am not against fast travel, original EQ had portals. PoK books in every zone is where I considered it overkill. I rather liked wows lfg tool too a degree, but theres much I dislike about it too . I guess I just don't see the difference between porting to todays daily dungeon and getting a portal to a zone like sebilis or guk and fighting down to the bottom. You weren't forced to stay in one place for hours any more then blizzard forces you to use the lfg tool. Also, I've always believed MMO's to be a social game, what is so wrong with wanting game mechanics that support community interaction.
Well I played for about 5 years, never found it boring. Boring is restarting an instance again and again, same deal but void of other players. That's why I wound up uninstalling EQ, soo much instant travel and instances, and thus it became a ghost town, or close to it. Maybe you complained to them, they listened, but you left, now few play after the changes. But there is always WoW and it's clones, eh? heh
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
I don't know- I think there is an element that EQ was a bit of a hangout place, and was appealling being a kind of world people chose to hang out in. People don't want to hang out in EQ now since its a complete eyesore, so an EQ3 might be welcome in this regard- especially in light of old EQ fans. Although the likelihood is some of these people have gone to LOTRO which is a finally crafted fantasy world.
I don't see an Everquest 3 coming because of an unclear and uncertain future of PC games. The paradigm is shifting right now to the Web and the platform of the future will be the web connected by TV, PC/MAC, Smartphones, and any other platform created that will probably involve Linux due to the scalability and how easy you can modify it to your liking. We are heading in a direction will be dominated by Web Applications and to not see this would be a severe loss of investment if not sure enough about how the technology of the platform used in the future for games.
It would be nice for a new EverQuest.
HOWEVER, it's just going to be a nickel & dime cheap-fest with that Smed guy.
Well Mr Nostradamus, that may be true, but we still have many years of pc gaming ahead of us. That argument was also raised when consoles were release and with other things.
The fact is that I dont want an Everquest 3 to be developed right now, not by THIS SoE at least
5 players (or 10/25 depends on the dungeon) are way enough. One group going through a dungeon >>>>>> taking a number and wait in line with 50. If you are with a group, the instance is not "void" with other players. In fact, a dungeon wont feel rigth if it is like a mall during xmas shopping season.
Oh, i am sure EQ listened .. it is OBVIOUS where the trend is .. and what players want. They just listen too LATE for me to care. I left after player Kunark for a while .. and nothing changes. 200 people camping for the same spawn. Thank you WOW makes MMO a fun GAME again.
There were no lines. That's just what the marketing hype. Well no more than in your instanced games. Instanced games, if you DON'T play them solo, you wait for a group to form for your instance, and I have waited in instanced games far longer than in sandbox games just to get a full group. At times getting a full group is just impossible, then they last 20 minutes and you gotta look for another group for the next instance. So you wind up playing solo in some instance, or with your bot army or whatever the instanced game is. May as well reinstall Oblivion and play through Knights of the Nine again. Most of the time I logged into old EQ1, I had a good group within 5 minutes, people were there and not anti-social.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
LOL .. apparently you have NOT played EQ. I was there. We camped for SIX hours, and doing a camp check every 30 min .. probably get to kill the boss like 5-6 times. If that is not waiting in line .. nothing is.
The wait is 10x WORSE than instanced games. Oh, may be not today since EQ has no population. I am talking about in 1999 where EQ is still popular.
Plus, there is not that much wait for an instance game. I just check my dungeon finder and usually i got in with about 10 min wait. The other advantage is that you can just start the wait and keep on doing what you want. No need to try to find a group (by yelling or what not) every 10 sec.
(Upon zoning into South Karana)
"Who's keeping the treant list?"
Or:
"Which way from the bridge to KFC?"
Or:
"Anyone got a spot free at the Spires?"
Around 120 players in the zone, mostly camping (or queuing to camp) the treants, gnolls, or aviaks, and doing so for hours at a time.
Ah, I remember it well....
lalz sed teh WoW play3r.
I never ever waited hours. Avg 5 minutes. Between launch and some time after PoP. However, there were times we would ignore some players for a spot, players we knew and we didn't want in. When you hunt regular spots, you get to know the regulars hunters, and who you don't want in. Maybe my game was social compared to yours. Guess that's why they made WoW and games you must cycle through so many groups to do anything, so bad players get a break.
Shoot, I’d practically get mugged at times to join groups when I’d show up in a zone. Thank god for WoW, eh?
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
I was gonna say...I did more quests in WoW on my first day than I did in 4 years of Everquest. I've never played a game more about the mindless grind than Everquest.
All a MMO needs is fun classes and fun combat. It sounds simple but once the developers start these games they get a million different ideas they think players will like and it just winds up dragging the whole thing down.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
If you never camp for hours .. that means either a) you never get anything good, or b) you never play while EQ was popualr (i played in its FIRST year) when the population was high.
And YES .. THANK GOD for WOW. It is 10x the game EQ was .. and the game i have been waiting for when i played EQ. I always wonder how much MORE fun it would be running a dungeon with just my group and no camping, and no facing a stupid spellbook for 10 min recovering mana.
Camping is not standing in line, make up your mind. Standing in line is waiting for a camp position, a group position. Camping is not waiting for anything. Camp check is when you are not camping, whether or not you are already in a group.
The diff between EQ and camping, WoW and instanced dungeon finders is this:
WoW you use dungeon finder to find a group.
EQ you use friends list to find a group.
Dungeon finder is not selective, but you are out on your own if you cant get on friend lists thus wait in line, sometimes always at the back of the line. Just like in school, some kids were always last to be picked for a team, and they would only get picked if we had to pick them. EQ, there were no lines.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Camping IS standing in line. 10 groups camp a boss. Each group take turn. Not you turn, you wait .. if that is NOT waiting in line, what is?