Way off topic, but no Dana isn't scrapping PPV he's expanding it with UFC on Demand. The money in MMA is PPV. But an organisation needs to be large enough to support it. Thats why the top WEC guys get 40k and the top UFC make 800K per fight. Same company but one is a PPV dream and the other is testing the waters but still stuck in a broadcaster deal like Strikeforce and Bellator are.
Dana's entire mission is to spread MMA as far as he can throughout the world, and also to get UFC on network TV. I'm well aware of WEC, and the UFC on demand is actually reflective of what's going on in the MMO industry.
The end goal though is to get live UFC events on network TV. Don't you think they want the exposure that Basketball, Hockey, and Football all enjoy. That's what Dana and the Fertitta brothers are trying to do. Pay-Per-View is bringing in some sweet coin, but they have their eyes on something much bigger.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter I strongly dislike the people who buy this stuff. They are the ones to blame.
This and everyone else saying negative things about all this nickle and diming I agree with.
It'll never happen but we, the community, need to band together and say no to all this money bleeding. Time to make a stand and remind these companies that without us, the community, they are nothing.
This micro-transaction crap in MMO's is an unholy practice, and those that buy these things only contribute to the downfall of the genre by contributing to the dumbing-down, insta-reward mindset that is sucking the life out of these games.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, it's all about making money, but to paraphrase Malcolm from Jurassic Park, "The developers and executives are so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they should stop and think if they should."
I wanted to try WoW out again after the cataclysm, but now that they are engaging in this practice, never again, and never will I support an MMO that does similar things.
Buying things above and beyond your monthly sub us here to stay... get over it.
I'm curious how many of the MMO puritans are up in arms on their tv, wireless, utility companies for daring to have more than 1 price that allows them access to everything under the sun. Last I checked, I'm not getting UFC 114 with my monthly next week.
Your monthly fee entitles you access to the server and at most what came in the box. Anything above and beyond that, they can bill you for. Just be glad you aren't being billed for content patches or new tiers of armour or web site features or or or...
They're doing it wrong, I would pay them not to get such a channel.
But it is true, I think the era of one price buys you everything in an MMORPG is over, its going to be more along the lines of cable TV where you get basic service for your monthly fee, with some of the perk features costing us more.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thinking about this fleecing, it would make some of these games alot of cash, I'd be willing to bet, if some offered non-instanced housing in the wilderness for $50 a pop.
This and everyone else saying negative things about all this nickle and diming I agree with.
It'll never happen but we, the community, need to band together and say no to all this money bleeding. Time to make a stand and remind these companies that without us, the community, they are nothing.
All we have to do is stop purchasing things in MMORPGs that already have a sub and they will cease to offer them. I highly doubt this would ever happen though. It looks like people actually want to spend what is roughly half the cost of a new game on things like a shiny winged unicorn with the aura of a rainbow.
The genre is truly on the upswing I tell ya.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Okay. It's been pointed out many times before, but I will go to the trouble to repeat it.
It hurts players when people buy things from a cash shop, because it encourages the devs to put more and more items in there, rather than putting them in the game for players to earn by playing the game.
It creates a class structure of haves and have-nots in the gaming community as well.
Wrong because class structure of have and have nots only matter if x player is wearing better armor with superior stats which completely makes you feel useless. Than yes, you can say that game has divided players into two groups since now it has become compulsory for you to fork cash in order to stay competetitve with that X Player in PVE or PVP.
Now since we are talking about cosmetic and appearance items, they are not 'MUST HAVE'. You can ignore it and still enjoy the game and you won't be in any disadvantage. So this have and have nots does not exist unless game company forces you to buy an item which is crucial for your character progression.
Its like going to buy a car and decide to add a spoiler, alloy wheels and better music system along with some flashy neon lights. I can get the car without all the extra additions but i surely do not feel entitled to get everything free.
We ARE entitled to this stuff, wtf! We are PAYING to play these games. If we were talking F2P it would be a completely different story.
It's just spoilers and alloys they are selling right now, but tomorrow it's superchargers and exhaust headers. Take your head out of the sand, come on I dare ya!
With this kind of mentality I'm sure our genre has only but the brightest of a future to look forward to.
I can't believe people are actually defending this shit and with a pinch of passion while doing so.
I am of the side that doesnt care if MMOs sell fluff items, but Cerc raises a great point.....where will it end?
Although I bought several MMOs new between 01 and 06, the only one I kept playing was EQ1 during that span. Back then it was about working for what ya got. It is the model I think gaming should be about....if you dont do the content then you dont get the game altering upgrades(Ie gear/spells/etc).
Granted EQ1 was about big guild raids....something I dont think gaming should aim for nowadays. That said, I dont think folks should be allowed anything that isnt earned in game, by themselves, when it comes to their gear.
As others have pointed out though, it is a business and as long as the demand continues I doubt this stuff goes away. Instead it was as Cerc pointed out....when does this stuff truly become game altering must-haves? I havent played MMOs since 06, and other than TOR, I doubt I play them ever again. That said, I still dont like seeing what this genre is heading towards.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
All we have to do is stop purchasing things in MMORPGs that already have a sub and they will cease to offer them.
We have to stop subscribing to the games. Just not buying stuff isnn't enough.
I agree. EQ2 was one of two games that I played, now im down to one. Its the entitlement mentality gone insane. " I want a level cap uber toon and I dont want to have to play the game to get it ".
Lets put it another way. This is not new even to MMOs. Anyone whos been here since EQ knows that people have even put their toons for sale. Or items and levels and other junk. I knew guys who made a good living, by student standards, playing EQ in college. Lots of people have a lot of money to spend on their hobbies. The market has always been there. For me its just not worth it but for others, 25, 50, 1000 is peanuts. Only difference is now its sanctioned and in the open.
It should require skill, tactics, planning and courage to get the phat lootz; not whipping out your credit card. It is NOT a simple equation of spending money instead of time. You can spend all the time in the world on a MMORPG and not have crap to show for it if you suck horribly. There is a slope in these games where eventually time doesn't net you much of anything, only skill does. The better the game, the more the good stuff is skil and not time dependant.
Saying you should be able to open your checkbook to get the good stuff because you don't have the time to invest is a fallacy. MMORPG's by their definition are sopposed to be time sinks. Your sopposed to choose between your one MMO or all your regular single player gaming. If you don't have the free time to play one, then DON"T.
And furthermore the time argument is flawed because most of the stuff sold in AAA game shops have nothing to do with your characters combat prowess nor are these things that can EVER be acquired in game. They are purchase ONLY. Buying unique hair colors, mounts and pets will have NO effect on your ability to raid or PVP. They exist just for e-peen. These things will NOT make up for your lack of play time. And the people with the time to spend will NEVER be able to acquire them because they simply are NOT in the game. This is not an arguement that can be used to say micro sales are okay because their just for e-peen either. Because in a virtual world video game, appearance is just as important as your killing skills.
would also like to add to the post above that subs are paying for new cash shop items. Why can't they give you cash shop credits in a p2p game as part of your sub? You are already paying for the development of these items that you have to pay again to obtain? I would want that blizzard pony if I still played WoW and I would say that most people would but how can you tell me as a subscriber to your game that you want me to pay for an item you developed with my money? I mean fine put it in the cash shop... but put it ingame without demanding more money from already paying customers.
Comments
Way off topic, but no Dana isn't scrapping PPV he's expanding it with UFC on Demand. The money in MMA is PPV. But an organisation needs to be large enough to support it. Thats why the top WEC guys get 40k and the top UFC make 800K per fight. Same company but one is a PPV dream and the other is testing the waters but still stuck in a broadcaster deal like Strikeforce and Bellator are.
Dana's entire mission is to spread MMA as far as he can throughout the world, and also to get UFC on network TV. I'm well aware of WEC, and the UFC on demand is actually reflective of what's going on in the MMO industry.
The end goal though is to get live UFC events on network TV. Don't you think they want the exposure that Basketball, Hockey, and Football all enjoy. That's what Dana and the Fertitta brothers are trying to do. Pay-Per-View is bringing in some sweet coin, but they have their eyes on something much bigger.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I agree with the OP.
This and everyone else saying negative things about all this nickle and diming I agree with.It'll never happen but we, the community, need to band together and say no to all this money bleeding. Time to make a stand and remind these companies that without us, the community, they are nothing.
This micro-transaction crap in MMO's is an unholy practice, and those that buy these things only contribute to the downfall of the genre by contributing to the dumbing-down, insta-reward mindset that is sucking the life out of these games.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, it's all about making money, but to paraphrase Malcolm from Jurassic Park, "The developers and executives are so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they should stop and think if they should."
I wanted to try WoW out again after the cataclysm, but now that they are engaging in this practice, never again, and never will I support an MMO that does similar things.
They're doing it wrong, I would pay them not to get such a channel.
But it is true, I think the era of one price buys you everything in an MMORPG is over, its going to be more along the lines of cable TV where you get basic service for your monthly fee, with some of the perk features costing us more.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thinking about this fleecing, it would make some of these games alot of cash, I'd be willing to bet, if some offered non-instanced housing in the wilderness for $50 a pop.
All we have to do is stop purchasing things in MMORPGs that already have a sub and they will cease to offer them. I highly doubt this would ever happen though. It looks like people actually want to spend what is roughly half the cost of a new game on things like a shiny winged unicorn with the aura of a rainbow.
The genre is truly on the upswing I tell ya.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
We have to stop subscribing to the games. Just not buying stuff isnn't enough.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I am of the side that doesnt care if MMOs sell fluff items, but Cerc raises a great point.....where will it end?
Although I bought several MMOs new between 01 and 06, the only one I kept playing was EQ1 during that span. Back then it was about working for what ya got. It is the model I think gaming should be about....if you dont do the content then you dont get the game altering upgrades(Ie gear/spells/etc).
Granted EQ1 was about big guild raids....something I dont think gaming should aim for nowadays. That said, I dont think folks should be allowed anything that isnt earned in game, by themselves, when it comes to their gear.
As others have pointed out though, it is a business and as long as the demand continues I doubt this stuff goes away. Instead it was as Cerc pointed out....when does this stuff truly become game altering must-haves? I havent played MMOs since 06, and other than TOR, I doubt I play them ever again. That said, I still dont like seeing what this genre is heading towards.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree. EQ2 was one of two games that I played, now im down to one. Its the entitlement mentality gone insane. " I want a level cap uber toon and I dont want to have to play the game to get it ".
Lets put it another way. This is not new even to MMOs. Anyone whos been here since EQ knows that people have even put their toons for sale. Or items and levels and other junk. I knew guys who made a good living, by student standards, playing EQ in college. Lots of people have a lot of money to spend on their hobbies. The market has always been there. For me its just not worth it but for others, 25, 50, 1000 is peanuts. Only difference is now its sanctioned and in the open.
It should require skill, tactics, planning and courage to get the phat lootz; not whipping out your credit card. It is NOT a simple equation of spending money instead of time. You can spend all the time in the world on a MMORPG and not have crap to show for it if you suck horribly. There is a slope in these games where eventually time doesn't net you much of anything, only skill does. The better the game, the more the good stuff is skil and not time dependant.
Saying you should be able to open your checkbook to get the good stuff because you don't have the time to invest is a fallacy. MMORPG's by their definition are sopposed to be time sinks. Your sopposed to choose between your one MMO or all your regular single player gaming. If you don't have the free time to play one, then DON"T.
And furthermore the time argument is flawed because most of the stuff sold in AAA game shops have nothing to do with your characters combat prowess nor are these things that can EVER be acquired in game. They are purchase ONLY. Buying unique hair colors, mounts and pets will have NO effect on your ability to raid or PVP. They exist just for e-peen. These things will NOT make up for your lack of play time. And the people with the time to spend will NEVER be able to acquire them because they simply are NOT in the game. This is not an arguement that can be used to say micro sales are okay because their just for e-peen either. Because in a virtual world video game, appearance is just as important as your killing skills.
would also like to add to the post above that subs are paying for new cash shop items. Why can't they give you cash shop credits in a p2p game as part of your sub? You are already paying for the development of these items that you have to pay again to obtain? I would want that blizzard pony if I still played WoW and I would say that most people would but how can you tell me as a subscriber to your game that you want me to pay for an item you developed with my money? I mean fine put it in the cash shop... but put it ingame without demanding more money from already paying customers.