Camping IS standing in line. 10 groups camp a boss. Each group take turn. Not you turn, you wait .. if that is NOT waiting in line, what is?
I can't think of one place where you had ten groups camping one boss, ever. The most I've seen is two camps waiting for turns getting the FBSS and that was outclassed by expansion loot. The worse camping I remember was the pre-change Journeyman's Boots which was one group and sometimes it would take days to get your loot turn. They changed it because it was like that... though I admit they didn't change it for the better. Camping Cyclops was worse!
I think you are exaggerating a little too much. Yes, those are two instances of "waiting in line" but the game as a whole was not this type of waiting... unless you were one of those people who desired the best loot and nobody was going to stand in your way. You could successfully play the game without camping these (I did.) I got my Enchanter to level 57 and my Warrior to level 53 on nothing but what I considered casual gaming. I quit playing after the Legacy of Y`kesha. I'd join my server, get a port to whatever zone I wanted to group in, invis and navigate my way through the elaborate dungeons (which NO game has matched to date) all by memory and join up with a group for a chance at some new gear. If I didn't get it that day, it wasn't the end of the world.
In fact, I had more fun with my Enchanter "grinding" faction than I did anything else. I'd illusion to a friendly race, kill some low level mobs for an hour or so, then go wandering into the cities of my "enemies" because of the awesome utility of the illusion line. It was a personal goal to become welcome in every town in Norrath as a Dark Elf without illusion and I obtained that quite easily.
MMOs are starting to loose their luster, they're being made to easy, and they're going heavy on the flashy graphics with little content to the stories. I miss actual content and quests that were more then just go x and kill y. I complain about selling a game on graphics, though I'll admit I can't stay interested in the old games anymore because I have seen what they can look like.
I have recently started missing Everquest's story and huge amount of content. There doesn't seem to be any news of a new one, but wouldn't it be nice?
They have a great story, they could make a great game again, or they could remake an old giant with a new look.
I'd like to think im not alone in wanting a fresh new look at Norrath, and a game worth devoting time to.
Well, there is news of a new one, it's Everquest Next (or some such thing).
What it will be is anyone's guess. I highly doubt it will play like the original everquest but who knows, maybe the designers will offer a wide range of game play to a wide range of players.
Coppernicus will blow it away Back two steps and full steam ahead.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Camping IS standing in line. 10 groups camp a boss. Each group take turn. Not you turn, you wait .. if that is NOT waiting in line, what is?
I can't think of one place where you had ten groups camping one boss, ever. The most I've seen is two camps waiting for turns getting the FBSS and that was outclassed by expansion loot. The worse camping I remember was the pre-change Journeyman's Boots which was one group and sometimes it would take days to get your loot turn. They changed it because it was like that... though I admit they didn't change it for the better. Camping Cyclops was worse!
I think you are exaggerating a little too much. Yes, those are two instances of "waiting in line" but the game as a whole was not this type of waiting... unless you were one of those people who desired the best loot and nobody was going to stand in your way. You could successfully play the game without camping these (I did.) I got my Enchanter to level 57 and my Warrior to level 53 on nothing but what I considered casual gaming. I quit playing after the Legacy of Y`kesha. I'd join my server, get a port to whatever zone I wanted to group in, invis and navigate my way through the elaborate dungeons (which NO game has matched to date) all by memory and join up with a group for a chance at some new gear. If I didn't get it that day, it wasn't the end of the world.
In fact, I had more fun with my Enchanter "grinding" faction than I did anything else. I'd illusion to a friendly race, kill some low level mobs for an hour or so, then go wandering into the cities of my "enemies" because of the awesome utility of the illusion line. It was a personal goal to become welcome in every town in Norrath as a Dark Elf without illusion and I obtained that quite easily.
Well the fact that you are casual and refuse to camp does NOT mean this kind of camping does not exist. There are plenty like what i described. For example, i camped SIX HOURS for a SMR (Shiney Metallic Robe) once. We got to kill the boss may be like 5-6 times and it did NOT drop.
WORST experience EVER. WOW is much better. At least you will get some emblems.
More like Sony bought it so they could let it rot and not be in competition with their EQII and eventually EQIII they're mostly likely developing atm.
Extrapolating on eq2, EQ3 will have no death penalty. It will have an in game cash shop. It will be soloable. Plenty of instancing and so on. The only thing it will share with EQ1 is some lore.
I agree.
One thing SOE has shown over and over in the last 5 years is it's general disinterest in making virtual worlds and games and greater interest in fleecing it's player base and trying to be Blizzards "little buddy" and emulating everything they do.
I just don't understand the "sequel mentality" MMO gamers have. It's a really bad business decision to create a product that competes with and not replaces the old one. A better move to design it to be continuously upgraded. MMO's are about longevity and by rolling out sequel games with a questionable appeal all they really do is waste resources that would be far better spent renewing the old title. These games are not like the "Call of Duty" franchise that can squeeze out a game every 8 to 12 months and make money on it because all they are is a re-skin / upgrade of the last one with new maps.
EVE, CoX and WoW demonstrate this best and by the way, they are all top performers.
Players want their old favorites to look and play better not total rewrites that they may not like as EQ2, AC2, Lineage 2 and anything else with a 2 on it have shown. MAYBE GW2 with change that but IMHO, that will have more to do with the business model and the fact it is evolving into an actual MMORPG instead of an action game.
But players will keep crying for the shiny new and designers are more then happy to burn off an armload of poorly made quickies and still get their moneys worth. Cryptic has pretty much shown this recently. Grab a juicy IP and let it roll. It happens in Video games all the time in other genres.
IMHO of course...shiny new bubbles...with a 2 or 3 on it...shiny...new...must...have...shiny...new...go go consumer zombie, you must have the shiny new!
Camping IS standing in line. 10 groups camp a boss. Each group take turn. Not you turn, you wait .. if that is NOT waiting in line, what is?
I can't think of one place where you had ten groups camping one boss, ever. The most I've seen is two camps waiting for turns getting the FBSS and that was outclassed by expansion loot. The worse camping I remember was the pre-change Journeyman's Boots which was one group and sometimes it would take days to get your loot turn. They changed it because it was like that... though I admit they didn't change it for the better. Camping Cyclops was worse!
I think you are exaggerating a little too much. Yes, those are two instances of "waiting in line" but the game as a whole was not this type of waiting... unless you were one of those people who desired the best loot and nobody was going to stand in your way. You could successfully play the game without camping these (I did.) I got my Enchanter to level 57 and my Warrior to level 53 on nothing but what I considered casual gaming. I quit playing after the Legacy of Y`kesha. I'd join my server, get a port to whatever zone I wanted to group in, invis and navigate my way through the elaborate dungeons (which NO game has matched to date) all by memory and join up with a group for a chance at some new gear. If I didn't get it that day, it wasn't the end of the world.
In fact, I had more fun with my Enchanter "grinding" faction than I did anything else. I'd illusion to a friendly race, kill some low level mobs for an hour or so, then go wandering into the cities of my "enemies" because of the awesome utility of the illusion line. It was a personal goal to become welcome in every town in Norrath as a Dark Elf without illusion and I obtained that quite easily.
Well the fact that you are casual and refuse to camp does NOT mean this kind of camping does not exist. There are plenty like what i described. For example, i camped SIX HOURS for a SMR (Shiney Metallic Robe) once. We got to kill the boss may be like 5-6 times and it did NOT drop.
WORST experience EVER. WOW is much better. At least you will get some emblems.
Yea heaven forbid you have to put effort into try to get a piece of gear you wanted. Geez, how crazy something is not just handed to you. You had to gasp, work at something to get rewarded, what a crazy concept.
Of course you like WoW, its a game that hands you gear for little to no effort. You and your kind are the reason that MMOs have been dumbed down and made into easy mode theme parks. You want to play mindless, no challenge games and get all the shiny rewards for just showing up.
Just because you choose to camp this item does not mean it was a problem, you personally made the choice to get this item, it was your choice to stay and camp this item for 6 hours, it was your choice. Nobody forced you. I did my Warrior 1.0 whe they first came out, it took team work, thinking, and a lot of effort. IT was so rewarding when I finally did the last turn in for my light sabors. I camped the CoS (pre nerf Circle of shadows) and guess what I still use it to this day. Sure its never fun camping something and killing the name only to see it not drop what you wanted but hey thats life, learn to deal with it. Sure their were popular camps that always had "Lines" for the special items but then again you could go get something else instead of that item because EQ you had choices in items. Rarely were you forced to get a certain piece of gear.
I have played EQ since launch, I have left many times only to return because it offers the best of all worlds. The more effort you put into the game the more you are reward, simple concept. Unlike WoW, if you show up, you get a prize.
Games should be played to challenge you, Video games have always been about problem solving, even in the earliest days of video games, it was always about over coming what the programmer created to win. WoW changed this model and now everything is given to the players without making them solve any problems. WoW has maybe 5 raids that require any thinking at all, the reset is a guided tour of the WoW content.
Yea heaven forbid you have to put effort into try to get a piece of gear you wanted. Geez, how crazy something is not just handed to you. You had to gasp, work at something to get rewarded, what a crazy concept.
Of course you like WoW, its a game that hands you gear for little to no effort. You and your kind are the reason that MMOs have been dumbed down and made into easy mode theme parks. You want to play mindless, no challenge games and get all the shiny rewards for just showing up.
6 hours of boring camping for a small chance of a digital object? That is too much effort, in my books, for a GAME.
In wow, you get the same chance for about 30 min of play (per boss). That is more like it. You don't like it, don't play it.
I don't give my life to MMOs .. they are games. 30 min for a chance of an item (and that is without wipes, for harder boss, you wipe all the time) seems fair.
Plus, don't say WOW is not challenging unless you finished all ICC hard mode. 99% of the guilds haven't done that. If that is not challenging, nothing is.
The joke of course is that the work for it crowd seems to contain a lot of FFA PvP folks who want full loot. But the MOBs? Nah they get to keep a loot table =P
MMO loot shouldn't be handled any differently than single player RPG loot. Except that of course doesn't quite work out well for the dev studio who now has to provide varied content instead of making you march down the same dungeon over and over looking for that loot that either isn't dropping or someone else is winning the role for.
Systems like those in WoW, EQ2 and soon GW2 are better for the player.
On topic, EQ had little to no story or quests. It had content in the form of zones with points of interest and loot but it really was just a 3D DnD based mob grind. And I loved it because it was the best thing ever created. Problem is newer better games kept coming. Now EQ plays just like the new games but has a terrible UI and an engine that crawls on even great gear.
They need another EQ, it needs to be massive like the original EQ but it still has to have all the quality of life features that have come since. Essentially the need to deliver the VG of today polished and built on an engine that truly supports an open world like WoW. Was going to say LotRO, but I can't remember ever entering a building and it not being an instance.
I've played Everquest for 8 years and it was fun. The best MMO of all time if you ask me. The effort Sony put into the game to make the quests and characters are extremely outstanding. I've also played WoW for about 3 months which I didn't like. In the time I've played Everquest I worked for everything I earned. The epics took about 36 hours on some, just camping for a mob. Like he said before though, it was worth it. You get one of the best wepons in the game at one time. There still preety good for 70-80. On to WoW, when I played it was fun but got boring because I can go to AH(Auction House) and buy everything I needed, no matter the level. I needed wepons, armour or arrows I just went to the AH. On Everquest yes there is a bazaar but you can't buy everything there. There is armour you need to farm and get quests for. Like the Tier armour and Underfoot armour, wepons and auguments. Everquest doesn't hand it out to you, but WoW does. Overall in my opinion Everquest is the better game and should have a higher rank and population. Again my opinion.
6 hours of boring camping for a small chance of a digital object? That is too much effort, in my books, for a GAME.
Using your own mentality: You don't like it, don't do it. Again, he said there are alternative items you can go get. You don't NEED that one item no matter how much you think you do.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Plus, don't say WOW is not challenging unless you finished all ICC hard mode. 99% of the guilds haven't done that. If that is not challenging, nothing is.
Getting a group of like-minded people together is probably the hardest part of that. But in stating that "goal" I can affirm my original thought that you are a completionist and not someone looking to enjoy the content. You have to have it all or it's not worth squat. You have to race to level cap ASAP and any waiting along the way is meaningless to you. Doing raids that 99% of the rest of the player base hasn't done, doesn't make you a good player or make you the appropriate person to be deciding what is best for a massive multiplayer game.
You don't like it, don't play it.
The rest of us here liked it, what are you here for?
On topic, EQ had little to no story or quests. It had content in the form of zones with points of interest and loot but it really was just a 3D DnD based mob grind. And I loved it because it was the best thing ever created. Problem is newer better games kept coming. Now EQ plays just like the new games but has a terrible UI and an engine that crawls on even great gear.
They need another EQ, it needs to be massive like the original EQ but it still has to have all the quality of life features that have come since. Essentially the need to deliver the VG of today polished and built on an engine that truly supports an open world like WoW. Was going to say LotRO, but I can't remember ever entering a building and it not being an instance.
EQ had quests and a story, but you had to seek it out and read it. It wasn't pushed in your face like games today. My biggest problem with games today (Vanguard included when I was in the beta) was the constant push to quest treadmills. You HAVE to do the quests to play the game and get stuff that's worth a damn. EQ had no such requirement.
I'll take "trains" (aggroed mobs can peel off and attack others outside your group) over controlled brain-dead spawns ANY day.
Trains kept camping very interesting.
hah! yeah it was. It kept you alert. Always made you keep an eye on the camp next to you, and gowd forbid talk to them sometimes... maybe even do the unthinkable and help them if their situation got dire. omg, the concept, community gaming, they are not just automaton stepping stones to getting your uber loot! discombobulating!
I'll take "trains" (aggroed mobs can peel off and attack others outside your group) over controlled brain-dead spawns ANY day.
Trains kept camping very interesting.
Realising I would have to camp mobs/bosses/quest spawns is what eventually drove me away from EQ1, it was tedious, it was a waste of my gaming time and it was totally frustrating when a FiF grp/guild took your camp after said mob/boss/quest popped.
As for instances well they where a god send after years of ppl crying out for some tech that would enable grps/guilds to achieve something in the game without having to constantly compete with other grps/guilds on a daily basis, where by you didn't have to setup raiding calendars on open forums so you could "Book" your raiding slot so it didn't compormise any other progression grps/guilds.
As for trains, well yes I always did enjoy that aspect to the game, and mobs that would continually follow you until you or they where killed, or you managed to get to the zone line in time , oh how I used to love grabing skellies in Oasis then running off with my jboots and invising up then running over a croc grp on the beach sure was fun to hear all the commotion it would cause, or even using my Monster summoning spell and create a Sandgiant while underwater and again hearing ppl shout "SG to beach" and watching them all run away until they realised it was a Mag pet hehe.
Originally posted by MMOrUS As for instances well they where a god send after years of ppl crying out for some tech that would enable grps/guilds to achieve something in the game without having to constantly compete with other grps/guilds on a daily basis, where by you didn't have to setup raiding calendars on open forums so you could "Book" your raiding slot so it didn't compormise any other progression grps/guilds.
There are other methods to preventing that that don't involve instancing, albeit instances are the "easy way out" as far as the developer is concerned. Rewards could be granted to the group with the longest collective time of presence, said boss could be a spawned event (an item drops that's required to call the boss), have an item that summons you to the boss and doesn't allow anyone but your group access to the floating island he may be on...
MMOs are starting to loose their luster, they're being made to easy, and they're going heavy on the flashy graphics with little content to the stories. I miss actual content and quests that were more then just go x and kill y. I complain about selling a game on graphics, though I'll admit I can't stay interested in the old games anymore because I have seen what they can look like.
I have recently started missing Everquest's story and huge amount of content.
As mentioned in another thread about EQ yesterday, Everquest had quests that were basically "go x and kill y" and that was it for the vast majority of the time. It started with Rat Tails and continued like that right up to lvl 75 at which point I got bored and quit. Where people are buying these rose-tinted specs regarding the quests in Everquest baffles me.
Realising I would have to camp mobs/bosses/quest spawns is what eventually drove me away from EQ1, it was tedious, it was a waste of my gaming time and it was totally frustrating when a FiF grp/guild took your camp after said mob/boss/quest popped.
As for instances well they where a god send after years of ppl crying out for some tech that would enable grps/guilds to achieve something in the game without having to constantly compete with other grps/guilds on a daily basis
Very true. At least instances gave us mobs we didn't have to form an orderly line for! I've never seen an MMO since that had so much bile and flaming over the "stealing" of camps.
I'm sure some of these guys forget that downtime between fights was a bitch at one time, and as for having to stare at your Spellbook while Meditating was nothing short of farcical. EQ had a fantastic community though.
They over-compensated with the XP at the end though, and what with XP potions and bonus XP weekends, plus running the instances over and over, people at lvl 15 to 20 were getting a near enough a level per Instance run, which was stupid on Sony's part. I have a friend who built up so many AA points that it was just silly - he had literally thousands.
As for instances well they where a god send after years of ppl crying out for some tech that would enable grps/guilds to achieve something in the game without having to constantly compete with other grps/guilds on a daily basis, where by you didn't have to setup raiding calendars on open forums so you could "Book" your raiding slot so it didn't compormise any other progression grps/guilds.
There are other methods to preventing that that don't involve instancing, albeit instances are the "easy way out" as far as the developer is concerned.
Rewards could be granted to the group with the longest collective time of presence, said boss could be a spawned event (an item drops that's required to call the boss), have an item that summons you to the boss and doesn't allow anyone but your group access to the floating island he may be on...
Well saying it is possible does not make it true. If a boss is desirable (because of the loot, of the challenge, of teh achievement or whatever reason) then many groups will want it.
LOL .. "Rewards could be granted to the group with the longest collective time of presence" .. awful idea. People will then LINED up for days for it .. or never logged off. If you think lining up for 6 hrs is bad .. it would be worse in this scenario.
"said boss could be a spawned event (an item drops that's required to call the boss), have an item that summons you to the boss and doesn't allow anyone but your group access to the floating island he may be on..."
May as well make it into an instance if no one else can access it. Two copies >> one because more people can have fun.
6 hours of boring camping for a small chance of a digital object? That is too much effort, in my books, for a GAME.
Using your own mentality: You don't like it, don't do it. Again, he said there are alternative items you can go get. You don't NEED that one item no matter how much you think you do.
Sure. I will never play something like EQ again. And there is no alternative. All dungeon bosses are like this in EQ
You don't like it, don't play it.
The rest of us here liked it, what are you here for?
LOL .. the ten of you who still play EQ? There are plenty more who like instances and games that are actually fun instead of those who want to take a number & chat.
I am here just like you do, to talk about MMORPGs. Why are YOU here? To QQ because the market have moved on from boring designs?
I'm here to talk about Everquest, which you apparently hated from your tone and posts... so it is you who are "QQ"'ing because there are people here that want another fun game that was Everquest and you apparently want another WoW.
To be completely frank I simply do not believe a gamer when they say express their main complaint about a game is that they have to have a instance for their group and cant simply go in with other groups while those groups are in action.
I dont know why these gamers lie but I dont believe them. its not that big of a deal.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
To be fair, EQ has the pop to fill 15 servers. Thats a good number of people.
As for VG being a quest grind for rewards. Very few VG quests have loot rewards. Most are however quest chains tied to a poi plot. There are however armour/weapon quest series... like an epic line. Each piece was a 4-6 quest chain with a story. And that was for the starter set.
And lets be real here, in WoW things bound on equip, they couldn't be sold and used. In EQ at launch, EVERYTHING was usable and sellable.
To be completely frank I simply do not believe a gamer when they say express their main complaint about a game is that they have to have a instance for their group and cant simply go in with other groups while those groups are in action.
I dont know why these gamers lie but I dont believe them. its not that big of a deal.
Why wont you believe them? Don't you think it is a drag that other groups get to kill the boss and all you get to do is standing around looking? That is not a game that i want to play.
I'm here to talk about Everquest, which you apparently hated from your tone and posts... so it is you who are "QQ"'ing because there are people here that want another fun game that was Everquest and you apparently want another WoW.
Yup. I'll tell ya, if they did it like EQ1 up to PoP at the most and no further, I'd be there. Though maybe throw out those stupid books. I played EQ2, was not impressed. I don't know though, I really have no faith in anything SOE any longer. I'd play it if they did, but I don't think they will. Probably just the next expansion of EQ2, but more room to make it like WoW. Runs for a while then burns out when get-it-now players go back to WoW waiting for the next Blizzard game. Wish I could say better
Think about it. For years and years people have been saying they want a classic EQ server. SOE won't make one.
People have been saying they want a game like original EQ, and SOE hasn't made one.
So I don't know what Everquest 3 will be like, but I can almost guarantee it won't be like something they already refuse to give people.
I cross my fingers and hope that it will at least pay enough homage to original EQ that I will want to play it. The closer they get to original EQ with better graphics, the happier I will be.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
I can't think of one place where you had ten groups camping one boss, ever. The most I've seen is two camps waiting for turns getting the FBSS and that was outclassed by expansion loot. The worse camping I remember was the pre-change Journeyman's Boots which was one group and sometimes it would take days to get your loot turn. They changed it because it was like that... though I admit they didn't change it for the better. Camping Cyclops was worse!
I think you are exaggerating a little too much. Yes, those are two instances of "waiting in line" but the game as a whole was not this type of waiting... unless you were one of those people who desired the best loot and nobody was going to stand in your way. You could successfully play the game without camping these (I did.) I got my Enchanter to level 57 and my Warrior to level 53 on nothing but what I considered casual gaming. I quit playing after the Legacy of Y`kesha. I'd join my server, get a port to whatever zone I wanted to group in, invis and navigate my way through the elaborate dungeons (which NO game has matched to date) all by memory and join up with a group for a chance at some new gear. If I didn't get it that day, it wasn't the end of the world.
In fact, I had more fun with my Enchanter "grinding" faction than I did anything else. I'd illusion to a friendly race, kill some low level mobs for an hour or so, then go wandering into the cities of my "enemies" because of the awesome utility of the illusion line. It was a personal goal to become welcome in every town in Norrath as a Dark Elf without illusion and I obtained that quite easily.
Coppernicus will blow it away
Back two steps and full steam ahead.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well the fact that you are casual and refuse to camp does NOT mean this kind of camping does not exist. There are plenty like what i described. For example, i camped SIX HOURS for a SMR (Shiney Metallic Robe) once. We got to kill the boss may be like 5-6 times and it did NOT drop.
WORST experience EVER. WOW is much better. At least you will get some emblems.
I agree.
One thing SOE has shown over and over in the last 5 years is it's general disinterest in making virtual worlds and games and greater interest in fleecing it's player base and trying to be Blizzards "little buddy" and emulating everything they do.
I just don't understand the "sequel mentality" MMO gamers have. It's a really bad business decision to create a product that competes with and not replaces the old one. A better move to design it to be continuously upgraded. MMO's are about longevity and by rolling out sequel games with a questionable appeal all they really do is waste resources that would be far better spent renewing the old title. These games are not like the "Call of Duty" franchise that can squeeze out a game every 8 to 12 months and make money on it because all they are is a re-skin / upgrade of the last one with new maps.
EVE, CoX and WoW demonstrate this best and by the way, they are all top performers.
Players want their old favorites to look and play better not total rewrites that they may not like as EQ2, AC2, Lineage 2 and anything else with a 2 on it have shown. MAYBE GW2 with change that but IMHO, that will have more to do with the business model and the fact it is evolving into an actual MMORPG instead of an action game.
But players will keep crying for the shiny new and designers are more then happy to burn off an armload of poorly made quickies and still get their moneys worth. Cryptic has pretty much shown this recently. Grab a juicy IP and let it roll. It happens in Video games all the time in other genres.
IMHO of course...shiny new bubbles...with a 2 or 3 on it...shiny...new...must...have...shiny...new...go go consumer zombie, you must have the shiny new!
Yea heaven forbid you have to put effort into try to get a piece of gear you wanted. Geez, how crazy something is not just handed to you. You had to gasp, work at something to get rewarded, what a crazy concept.
Of course you like WoW, its a game that hands you gear for little to no effort. You and your kind are the reason that MMOs have been dumbed down and made into easy mode theme parks. You want to play mindless, no challenge games and get all the shiny rewards for just showing up.
Just because you choose to camp this item does not mean it was a problem, you personally made the choice to get this item, it was your choice to stay and camp this item for 6 hours, it was your choice. Nobody forced you. I did my Warrior 1.0 whe they first came out, it took team work, thinking, and a lot of effort. IT was so rewarding when I finally did the last turn in for my light sabors. I camped the CoS (pre nerf Circle of shadows) and guess what I still use it to this day. Sure its never fun camping something and killing the name only to see it not drop what you wanted but hey thats life, learn to deal with it. Sure their were popular camps that always had "Lines" for the special items but then again you could go get something else instead of that item because EQ you had choices in items. Rarely were you forced to get a certain piece of gear.
I have played EQ since launch, I have left many times only to return because it offers the best of all worlds. The more effort you put into the game the more you are reward, simple concept. Unlike WoW, if you show up, you get a prize.
Games should be played to challenge you, Video games have always been about problem solving, even in the earliest days of video games, it was always about over coming what the programmer created to win. WoW changed this model and now everything is given to the players without making them solve any problems. WoW has maybe 5 raids that require any thinking at all, the reset is a guided tour of the WoW content.
Sooner or Later
Yea heaven forbid you have to put effort into try to get a piece of gear you wanted. Geez, how crazy something is not just handed to you. You had to gasp, work at something to get rewarded, what a crazy concept.
Of course you like WoW, its a game that hands you gear for little to no effort. You and your kind are the reason that MMOs have been dumbed down and made into easy mode theme parks. You want to play mindless, no challenge games and get all the shiny rewards for just showing up.
6 hours of boring camping for a small chance of a digital object? That is too much effort, in my books, for a GAME.
In wow, you get the same chance for about 30 min of play (per boss). That is more like it. You don't like it, don't play it.
I don't give my life to MMOs .. they are games. 30 min for a chance of an item (and that is without wipes, for harder boss, you wipe all the time) seems fair.
Plus, don't say WOW is not challenging unless you finished all ICC hard mode. 99% of the guilds haven't done that. If that is not challenging, nothing is.
With the way SOE pushes item shops I'm not really looking forward to another dumbed down version of EQ
The joke of course is that the work for it crowd seems to contain a lot of FFA PvP folks who want full loot. But the MOBs? Nah they get to keep a loot table =P
MMO loot shouldn't be handled any differently than single player RPG loot. Except that of course doesn't quite work out well for the dev studio who now has to provide varied content instead of making you march down the same dungeon over and over looking for that loot that either isn't dropping or someone else is winning the role for.
Systems like those in WoW, EQ2 and soon GW2 are better for the player.
On topic, EQ had little to no story or quests. It had content in the form of zones with points of interest and loot but it really was just a 3D DnD based mob grind. And I loved it because it was the best thing ever created. Problem is newer better games kept coming. Now EQ plays just like the new games but has a terrible UI and an engine that crawls on even great gear.
They need another EQ, it needs to be massive like the original EQ but it still has to have all the quality of life features that have come since. Essentially the need to deliver the VG of today polished and built on an engine that truly supports an open world like WoW. Was going to say LotRO, but I can't remember ever entering a building and it not being an instance.
I've played Everquest for 8 years and it was fun. The best MMO of all time if you ask me. The effort Sony put into the game to make the quests and characters are extremely outstanding. I've also played WoW for about 3 months which I didn't like. In the time I've played Everquest I worked for everything I earned. The epics took about 36 hours on some, just camping for a mob. Like he said before though, it was worth it. You get one of the best wepons in the game at one time. There still preety good for 70-80. On to WoW, when I played it was fun but got boring because I can go to AH(Auction House) and buy everything I needed, no matter the level. I needed wepons, armour or arrows I just went to the AH. On Everquest yes there is a bazaar but you can't buy everything there. There is armour you need to farm and get quests for. Like the Tier armour and Underfoot armour, wepons and auguments. Everquest doesn't hand it out to you, but WoW does. Overall in my opinion Everquest is the better game and should have a higher rank and population. Again my opinion.
Laviticus.
Using your own mentality: You don't like it, don't do it. Again, he said there are alternative items you can go get. You don't NEED that one item no matter how much you think you do.
Getting a group of like-minded people together is probably the hardest part of that. But in stating that "goal" I can affirm my original thought that you are a completionist and not someone looking to enjoy the content. You have to have it all or it's not worth squat. You have to race to level cap ASAP and any waiting along the way is meaningless to you. Doing raids that 99% of the rest of the player base hasn't done, doesn't make you a good player or make you the appropriate person to be deciding what is best for a massive multiplayer game.
The rest of us here liked it, what are you here for?
EQ had quests and a story, but you had to seek it out and read it. It wasn't pushed in your face like games today. My biggest problem with games today (Vanguard included when I was in the beta) was the constant push to quest treadmills. You HAVE to do the quests to play the game and get stuff that's worth a damn. EQ had no such requirement.
I'll take camping over instancing ANY day.
I'll take "trains" (aggroed mobs can peel off and attack others outside your group) over controlled brain-dead spawns ANY day.
Trains kept camping very interesting.
hah! yeah it was. It kept you alert. Always made you keep an eye on the camp next to you, and gowd forbid talk to them sometimes... maybe even do the unthinkable and help them if their situation got dire. omg, the concept, community gaming, they are not just automaton stepping stones to getting your uber loot! discombobulating!
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Realising I would have to camp mobs/bosses/quest spawns is what eventually drove me away from EQ1, it was tedious, it was a waste of my gaming time and it was totally frustrating when a FiF grp/guild took your camp after said mob/boss/quest popped.
As for instances well they where a god send after years of ppl crying out for some tech that would enable grps/guilds to achieve something in the game without having to constantly compete with other grps/guilds on a daily basis, where by you didn't have to setup raiding calendars on open forums so you could "Book" your raiding slot so it didn't compormise any other progression grps/guilds.
As for trains, well yes I always did enjoy that aspect to the game, and mobs that would continually follow you until you or they where killed, or you managed to get to the zone line in time
, oh how I used to love grabing skellies in Oasis then running off with my jboots and invising up then running over a croc grp on the beach 
sure was fun to hear all the commotion it would cause, or even using my Monster summoning spell and create a Sandgiant while underwater and again hearing ppl shout "SG to beach" and watching them all run away until they realised it was a Mag pet hehe.
Rewards could be granted to the group with the longest collective time of presence, said boss could be a spawned event (an item drops that's required to call the boss), have an item that summons you to the boss and doesn't allow anyone but your group access to the floating island he may be on...
As mentioned in another thread about EQ yesterday, Everquest had quests that were basically "go x and kill y" and that was it for the vast majority of the time. It started with Rat Tails and continued like that right up to lvl 75 at which point I got bored and quit. Where people are buying these rose-tinted specs regarding the quests in Everquest baffles me.
Very true. At least instances gave us mobs we didn't have to form an orderly line for!
I've never seen an MMO since that had so much bile and flaming over the "stealing" of camps.
I'm sure some of these guys forget that downtime between fights was a bitch at one time, and as for having to stare at your Spellbook while Meditating was nothing short of farcical. EQ had a fantastic community though.
They over-compensated with the XP at the end though, and what with XP potions and bonus XP weekends, plus running the instances over and over, people at lvl 15 to 20 were getting a near enough a level per Instance run, which was stupid on Sony's part. I have a friend who built up so many AA points that it was just silly - he had literally thousands.
Well saying it is possible does not make it true. If a boss is desirable (because of the loot, of the challenge, of teh achievement or whatever reason) then many groups will want it.
LOL .. "Rewards could be granted to the group with the longest collective time of presence" .. awful idea. People will then LINED up for days for it .. or never logged off. If you think lining up for 6 hrs is bad .. it would be worse in this scenario.
"said boss could be a spawned event (an item drops that's required to call the boss), have an item that summons you to the boss and doesn't allow anyone but your group access to the floating island he may be on..."
May as well make it into an instance if no one else can access it. Two copies >> one because more people can have fun.
I'm here to talk about Everquest, which you apparently hated from your tone and posts... so it is you who are "QQ"'ing because there are people here that want another fun game that was Everquest and you apparently want another WoW.
ON INSTANCING:
To be completely frank I simply do not believe a gamer when they say express their main complaint about a game is that they have to have a instance for their group and cant simply go in with other groups while those groups are in action.
I dont know why these gamers lie but I dont believe them. its not that big of a deal.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
To be fair, EQ has the pop to fill 15 servers. Thats a good number of people.
As for VG being a quest grind for rewards. Very few VG quests have loot rewards. Most are however quest chains tied to a poi plot. There are however armour/weapon quest series... like an epic line. Each piece was a 4-6 quest chain with a story. And that was for the starter set.
And lets be real here, in WoW things bound on equip, they couldn't be sold and used. In EQ at launch, EVERYTHING was usable and sellable.
Why wont you believe them? Don't you think it is a drag that other groups get to kill the boss and all you get to do is standing around looking? That is not a game that i want to play.
Yup. I'll tell ya, if they did it like EQ1 up to PoP at the most and no further, I'd be there. Though maybe throw out those stupid books. I played EQ2, was not impressed. I don't know though, I really have no faith in anything SOE any longer. I'd play it if they did, but I don't think they will. Probably just the next expansion of EQ2, but more room to make it like WoW. Runs for a while then burns out when get-it-now players go back to WoW waiting for the next Blizzard game. Wish I could say better
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Think about it. For years and years people have been saying they want a classic EQ server. SOE won't make one.
People have been saying they want a game like original EQ, and SOE hasn't made one.
So I don't know what Everquest 3 will be like, but I can almost guarantee it won't be like something they already refuse to give people.
I cross my fingers and hope that it will at least pay enough homage to original EQ that I will want to play it. The closer they get to original EQ with better graphics, the happier I will be.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests