All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
If you don't think those are innovative, please explain to me exactly which MMOs you know of that have each of those features.
All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
If you don't think those are innovative, please explain to me exactly which MMOs you know of that have each of those features.
Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 has everything you are describing and more, if it comes out before SWTOR then BioWare would not be the first to make a fully voiced individual story driven mmorpg.
I won't even mention companions because GW1 has already done that, so you see their is nothing innovative about SWTOR, it's just BioWare tell you they are the first.
GW2 latedt update Story Story, mind you GW1 has the best story content at the moment it was only right that GW2 is taken to the next level.
Don't forget, out of the $150 million dollars being spent on this, easily 149% of that is going towards voice acting, as to leave no money for anything else.
It's really mind bottling how people can't think for themselves, and instead rely on what their friends heard from their friends from their friends who had no real information but just guessed.
The mind boggles, though not just for the reason you state.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Theres currently a thread going on, with a poll, whether people would prefer voice acting over alien playable races. Im fine by people discussing there opinions there, but now its becoming a thread ranting about how Bioware spent money on voice acting. This is just sad. SWTOR is going to be the first fully voice acted mmo, and people are complaining that its a bad decsion. People always say SWTOR is the same WoW formula with a new coat, blah blah ya. Well Bioware is trying to be innovative with the voice acting. Most developers aren't doing that anymore. So its a start to innovation I guess. It's also controvercial. Many people say mmos today lack innovation, they need to bring something new to the table. All that stuff. I agree, but you don't wake up one day and that mmo is born. MMOs will most likely slowly get there. I'm no SWTOR fan, I follow it but thats it, but the day when us mmoers start hating on a game for trying something new from the norm, is a sad day.
MMO players in general are the most immature group of people around... The sad part is the average age is like mid 20's+.. Oh well..
It's pretty simple though.. The average MMO player is clueless as to what they want in a game. Add to that the abnormally high level of immaturity and what you get is a bunch of middle aged cry babies.
Give em an ice cream cone, they want an ice cream sandwich, give them the ice cream sandwich and the ice cream isn't as good as the ice cream that was in the cone. Change the ice cream and now cones have been nerfed..
If the players had any clue as to how socially inappropriate and unacceptable their behavior is, things might change.. But that won't happen.. Most of them still get patted on the back by SOMEBODY when they throw their little emo tie raids and break their keyboards.. over stupid things like.. a company actually trying to deliver a quality product in a genre that has seen fail after fail release..
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
If you don't think those are innovative, please explain to me exactly which MMOs you know of that have each of those features.
Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 has everything you are describing and more, if it comes out before SWTOR then BioWare would not be the first to make a fully voiced individual story driven mmorpg.
I won't even mention companions because GW1 has already done that, so you see their is nothing innovative about SWTOR, it's just BioWare tell you they are the first.
GW2 latedt update Story Story, mind you GW1 has the best story content at the moment it was only right that GW2 is taken to the next level.
Umm... no. I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong. For one thing, I was talking about games already in existence. No one has named any because there are none. And on the topic of Guild Wars 2, it is important to remember that ArenaNet started development of that game in 2007. Bioware and Lucasarts began development of SWTOR in 2005. This means that any potential features GW2 may borrow from TOR, Bioware did it first... which commonly = innovation.
And furthermore, nothing I have read indicates that the personal story system in Guild Wars 2 is anything even close to what they are talking about doing in SWTOR. This game will essentially have 8 full Bioware games in one. While the GW2 system sounds very cool, I seriously doubt it will have anywhere near the amount of class-specific content available in TOR.
I definitely am looking forward to GW2 as well, but saying that SWTOR didn't innovate anything simply because GW2 is jacking some of the same features after the fact is a very very poor argument.
to add on to that GW2 is gonna be a shape your story kinda thing as apposed to SWTOR, where right from the beggining all classes are different, so you dont start your game the same for every class, like most mmos. Plus, does GW2 even have voice acting?
MMOs played: Too many Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise
All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
If you don't think those are innovative, please explain to me exactly which MMOs you know of that have each of those features.
Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 has everything you are describing and more, if it comes out before SWTOR then BioWare would not be the first to make a fully voiced individual story driven mmorpg.
I won't even mention companions because GW1 has already done that, so you see their is nothing innovative about SWTOR, it's just BioWare tell you they are the first.
GW2 latedt update Story Story, mind you GW1 has the best story content at the moment it was only right that GW2 is taken to the next level.
Umm... no. I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong. For one thing, I was talking about games already in existence. No one has named any because there are none. And on the topic of Guild Wars 2, it is important to remember that ArenaNet started development of that game in 2007. Bioware and Lucasarts began development of SWTOR in 2005. This means that any potential features GW2 may borrow from TOR, Bioware did it first... which commonly = innovation.
And furthermore, nothing I have read indicates that the personal story system in Guild Wars 2 is anything even close to what they are talking about doing in SWTOR. This game will essentially have 8 full Bioware games in one. While the GW2 system sounds very cool, I seriously doubt it will have anywhere near the amount of class-specific content available in TOR.
I definitely am looking forward to GW2 as well, but saying that SWTOR didn't innovate anything simply because GW2 is jacking some of the same features after the fact is a very very poor argument.
Umm, no sorry ArenaNet are not jacking anything.
Companions= GW1 They have done this already, go check out what companions do in GW1.
Story mode= GW1 They have done this already, currently GW1 is the best story driven mmorpg on the market , now they are giving us personal story and race story plus other story content that matches anything that BioWare are doing, read the article properly then you will see.
As of now SWTOR is looking like a distant follower, Arena Net already had a mmorpg that had these features and sold 6 million copies, if anyone is jacking then it's BioWare.
Who was arguing, i was commenting on the facts.
SWTOR who?
You loyal fans of BioWare need to get on their forums and start asking for more info because as it stands now, many are taking them for a joke company who really are all over the place.
E3 will be the nail in the coffin, i really hope they have some great info for it's follower because another planet update or story update will really send people the other way.
The bottom line is that Bioware needs to start showing more than just planets. They need to show more gameplay and start to get people more interested in their mmo.
Theres currently a thread going on, with a poll, whether people would prefer voice acting over alien playable races. Im fine by people discussing there opinions there, but now its becoming a thread ranting about how Bioware spent money on voice acting. This is just sad. SWTOR is going to be the first fully voice acted mmo, and people are complaining that its a bad decsion. People always say SWTOR is the same WoW formula with a new coat, blah blah ya. Well Bioware is trying to be innovative with the voice acting. Most developers aren't doing that anymore. So its a start to innovation I guess. It's also controvercial. Many people say mmos today lack innovation, they need to bring something new to the table. All that stuff. I agree, but you don't wake up one day and that mmo is born. MMOs will most likely slowly get there. I'm no SWTOR fan, I follow it but thats it, but the day when us mmoers start hating on a game for trying something new from the norm, is a sad day.
It is a bad decision if your perspective of MMO's is that the majority of fun is derived from other players. I don't know if this is still true but I remember something about the player's voice being acted? Its pointless.
The bottom line is that Bioware needs to start showing more than just planets. They need to show more gameplay and start to get people more interested in their mmo.
Agreed. I know it's still awhile from release, but the thibngs they have shown so far... well theyre either bad, or good, but just that.... good. Nothing amazing, or even really above average/decent. It doesnt really look much better than anything else out there other than they made a couple slight little tweaks to things like combat animations & voiced over more stuff than them.
I know it sounds like i keep just trolling the game, but it's not my intention, i was pretty eager to play the game too, and was waiting for them to show us something great. They just haven't done that yet, not even close IMO. Perhaps they will finally get around to it in the coming months and pull something out that actually makes me say "Now THAT is a game i want to play". I had faith in Bioware to make a really amazing game here, but that faith is quickly fading. I don't doubt that the game will be good, especially for some people, but i was kind of hoping for something more than mediocre with a few nice things added in.
SWTOR and GW2 are 2 of the game sim looking most forward too, and putting the 2 in comparison... GW2 has released probably about half the info SWTOR has (considering things like info on classes, combat, story, etc) and it already looking like a much better prospect than SWTOR. So what's gonna happen when GW2 starts releasing all the rest? Will SWTOR step it up too, or will they just continue down the same path?
All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
If you don't think those are innovative, please explain to me exactly which MMOs you know of that have each of those features.
Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 has everything you are describing and more, if it comes out before SWTOR then BioWare would not be the first to make a fully voiced individual story driven mmorpg.
I won't even mention companions because GW1 has already done that, so you see their is nothing innovative about SWTOR, it's just BioWare tell you they are the first.
GW2 latedt update Story Story, mind you GW1 has the best story content at the moment it was only right that GW2 is taken to the next level.
Umm... no. I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong. For one thing, I was talking about games already in existence. No one has named any because there are none. And on the topic of Guild Wars 2, it is important to remember that ArenaNet started development of that game in 2007. Bioware and Lucasarts began development of SWTOR in 2005. This means that any potential features GW2 may borrow from TOR, Bioware did it first... which commonly = innovation.
And furthermore, nothing I have read indicates that the personal story system in Guild Wars 2 is anything even close to what they are talking about doing in SWTOR. This game will essentially have 8 full Bioware games in one. While the GW2 system sounds very cool, I seriously doubt it will have anywhere near the amount of class-specific content available in TOR.
I definitely am looking forward to GW2 as well, but saying that SWTOR didn't innovate anything simply because GW2 is jacking some of the same features after the fact is a very very poor argument.
Umm, no sorry ArenaNet are not jacking anything.
Companions= GW1 They have done this already, go check out what companions do in GW1.
Story mode= GW1 They have done this already, currently GW1 is the best story driven mmorpg on the market , now they are giving us personal story and race story plus other story content that matches anything that BioWare are doing, read the article properly then you will see.
As of now SWTOR is looking like a distant follower, Arena Net already had a mmorpg that had these features and sold 6 million copies, if anyone is jacking then it's BioWare.
Who was arguing, i was commenting on the facts.
SWTOR who?
You loyal fans of BioWare need to get on their forums and start asking for more info because as it stands now, many are taking them for a joke company who really are all over the place.
E3 will be the nail in the coffin, i really hope they have some great info for it's follower because another planet update or story update will really send people the other way.
Really? You say GW came up with companions? Cuz thats in almost all rpgs. (single player that is) Including knights of the old republic which came out before Guild wars. And after all SWTOR is taking place after KOTOR and everything you know. No1 is jacking anything, all thats happening in this thread now are a bunch of lies facts that arent backed up with sources.
MMOs played: Too many Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise
The bottom line is that Bioware needs to start showing more than just planets. They need to show more gameplay and start to get people more interested in their mmo.
Agreed. I know it's still awhile from release, but the thibngs they have shown so far... well theyre either bad, or good, but just that.... good. Nothing amazing, or even really above average/decent. It doesnt really look much better than anything else out there other than they made a couple slight little tweaks to things like combat animations & voiced over more stuff than them.
I know it sounds like i keep just trolling the game, but it's not my intention, i was pretty eager to play the game too, and was waiting for them to show us something great. They just haven't done that yet, not even close IMO. Perhaps they will finally get around to it in the coming months and pull something out that actually makes me say "Now THAT is a game i want to play". I had faith in Bioware to make a really amazing game here, but that faith is quickly fading. I don't doubt that the game will be good, especially for some people, but i was kind of hoping for something more than mediocre with a few nice things added in.
Marketing is all about timing, which they have ample amounts of. First they show a little leg, now we're begging for more. Working as intended....
I've never quite understood getting angry about a lack of information, especially for a game that's over a year away. Remember there's still no set release date, only a window they're aiming for. No game to date (i know of) has released during their first planned schedule. They always get delayed, I doubt TOR will be any different.
We won't know anything solid for another 6 months (most likely). Even then we probably wont know in great detail all planned features until about 8-9 months from now. Giving them 4-5 months to promote said features.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The bottom line is that Bioware needs to start showing more than just planets. They need to show more gameplay and start to get people more interested in their mmo.
Agreed. I know it's still awhile from release, but the thibngs they have shown so far... well theyre either bad, or good, but just that.... good. Nothing amazing, or even really above average/decent. It doesnt really look much better than anything else out there other than they made a couple slight little tweaks to things like combat animations & voiced over more stuff than them.
I know it sounds like i keep just trolling the game, but it's not my intention, i was pretty eager to play the game too, and was waiting for them to show us something great. They just haven't done that yet, not even close IMO. Perhaps they will finally get around to it in the coming months and pull something out that actually makes me say "Now THAT is a game i want to play". I had faith in Bioware to make a really amazing game here, but that faith is quickly fading. I don't doubt that the game will be good, especially for some people, but i was kind of hoping for something more than mediocre with a few nice things added in.
Marketing is all about timing, which they have ample amounts of. First they show a little leg, now we're begging for more. Working as intended....
I've never quite understood getting angry about a lack of information, especially for a game that's over a year away. Remember there's still no set release date, only a window they're aiming for. No game to date (i know of) has released during their first planned schedule. They always get delayed, I doubt TOR will be any different.
We won't know anything solid for another 6 months (most likely). Even then we probably wont know in great detail all planned features until about 8-9 months from now. Giving them 4-5 months to promote said features.
I agree. Lack of information a year from release, or just under a year. Is no problem. Especially with E3 coming.. if it's anything like last E3, hold onto your hats.
When is E3 anyway, isn't it soon?
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The bottom line is that Bioware needs to start showing more than just planets. They need to show more gameplay and start to get people more interested in their mmo.
Agreed. I know it's still awhile from release, but the thibngs they have shown so far... well theyre either bad, or good, but just that.... good. Nothing amazing, or even really above average/decent. It doesnt really look much better than anything else out there other than they made a couple slight little tweaks to things like combat animations & voiced over more stuff than them.
I know it sounds like i keep just trolling the game, but it's not my intention, i was pretty eager to play the game too, and was waiting for them to show us something great. They just haven't done that yet, not even close IMO. Perhaps they will finally get around to it in the coming months and pull something out that actually makes me say "Now THAT is a game i want to play". I had faith in Bioware to make a really amazing game here, but that faith is quickly fading. I don't doubt that the game will be good, especially for some people, but i was kind of hoping for something more than mediocre with a few nice things added in.
SWTOR and GW2 are 2 of the game sim looking most forward too, and putting the 2 in comparison... GW2 has released probably about half the info SWTOR has (considering things like info on classes, combat, story, etc) and it already looking like a much better prospect than SWTOR. So what's gonna happen when GW2 starts releasing all the rest? Will SWTOR step it up too, or will they just continue down the same path?
I'm totally on the same page with you... the latest information for Guild Wars 2 has knocked me seven ways from Sunday. Finally, someone is tackling some of the blandness in MMOs. And they are not going to ask me to pay every month. Just brilliant.
TOR is looking interesting still. It remains to be seen what payment model they will have. And it remains to be seen what they will reveal about the game other than a solid emphasis on story. What would get me excited is good space combat but many people dont think this is going to be in. The one thing that almost sucked me into trying STO was alternating between ground and space.
However, I don't agree that Bioware *needs* to release more information at this stage. There is no real urgency, it is just us that is impatient and we are a very small part of their audience. What will count is what the information is. If it is good, we will instantly forgive any waiting time.
Final comment. Compared to GW2, there is no real innovation in TOR. That doesn't mean it wont be awesome, it just wont be innovative.
Guild Wars 2 's story will not be presented in the same way as TOR's, for one, there is no repeated story content between classes for TOR, while that does seem to be the case in GW2 (although limited by some factors).
TOR's companions are not henchmen as seen in GW, they're unique to each class, you can only have one active at any time and they are more like companions in other BW games.
And to the people saying BW needs to reveal more info: of course I want more as well, but they're not the only ones, GW2 which is the game that suddenly is praised as the chief innovator, has not released much if any real gameplay footage either.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Its not the voice over, its the fact that with THE AMOUNT of money dumped into such a cosmetic feature it could have been used to further enhance and develop the game both code and hardware wise!
5+ years in mmos? What mmos are fully voice acted like SWTOR? Only game I can think of with a good amount of voice acting is AoC which is just the first few levels.
He didn't say MMOs have been fully voice-acted for 5 years. He said there has been voice acting in MMOs for 5+ years, which is true; Everquest 2, for example, had a lot of voice acting 5+ years ago when it released. He then responded to that fact by opining that what BioWare are doing isn't innovation, it's merely expanding on a feature that has already existed.
Doing "more" of something isn't innovation.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Its not the voice over, its the fact that with THE AMOUNT of money dumped into such a cosmetic feature it could have been used to further enhance and develop the game both code and hardware wise!
Time and time again, people have both shown that voice acting isn't such a huge cost in the face of the budget and that the notion of carrying money over from one feature into another is unrealistic, don't start it again, look in the other threads on that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
5+ years in mmos? What mmos are fully voice acted like SWTOR? Only game I can think of with a good amount of voice acting is AoC which is just the first few levels.
He didn't say MMOs have been fully voice-acted for 5 years. He said there has been voice acting in MMOs for 5+ years, which is true; Everquest 2, for example, had a lot of voice acting 5+ years ago when it released. He then responded to that fact by opining that what BioWare are doing isn't innovation, it's merely expanding on a feature that already exists.
Voice acting isn't an innovation, although the amount of it could be seen as one.
The innovation is introducing a branching storyline, a dialogue system and a group dialogue system.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Its not the voice over, its the fact that with THE AMOUNT of money dumped into such a cosmetic feature it could have been used to further enhance and develop the game both code and hardware wise!
Absolutely right.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Time and time again, people have both shown that voice acting isn't such a huge cost in the face of the budget and that the notion of carrying money over from one feature into another is unrealistic, don't start it again, look in the other threads on that.
Thats incorrect and i suggest you learn your facts, voice acting is in fact a huge chunk of budget more so than simply adding a few more artists or dev's to the team in order to churn out better and more polished game code for both server and client.
The mere fact that bioware has already dumped 150mil on a game should be a red flag in todays market, lets hope the hype lives up otherwise it will be no different than the rest of the MMO's that fail in its first year out.
All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
Doing more of something isn't innovation. It's simply doing more of something.
If they implemented voice acting in such a way that what NPCs said was dynamic (or cleverly coded to seem dynamic, anyway) and in reaction to what the player was doing, and then fully voice acted, then that might be innovative. For example, you're running by and bumping into people and a nearby NPC says, vocally, "Hey, "name here"! Why don't you watch where you're going!" ... I could say that would be innovative as no MMO I've played has had NPCs react dynamically to the goings-on around them.
But simply having *more* voice acting than other MMOs? Certainly more of an effort, but it's not innovative.
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
Other MMOs have unique storylines for each class. FFXI being one of them, many of which have very detailed storylines. In FFXI, the storyline for each class (especially advanced classes) begin when you start the quest for them and unfold through in-game cut-scenes throughout the class's "career". FFXI also has "Adventuring Fellows" which are NPCs you can summon who assist you according to parameters you set (ie. they're healers, or tanks, etc). If you have one set as a tank, for example, it will provoke the mob off you, etc. Maybe not exactly the same as TOR's in execution, but certainly the same idea.
The story changing depending on your choices is pretty cool, I'll give ya that . I love a well-told story in a MMO so I would appreciate that for sure. Sadly, though, there are so many who don't even bother to follow the storylines in MMOs - because they're only interested in the xp and "phat lewt" - that I fear it's going to go wasted on a lot of its players. Not that that's the game's fault... just that fewer and fewer people these days seem to care why their character's doing something, who or what it's affecting, etc. etc. They're only doing it for the reward.
If it's at all feasible, I can imagine the min-max types working out guides on the "best choices to make" to get a specific outcome if it affects the gameplay at all, and then they'll follow them like a cake recipe, just like they do class or leveling guides, etc.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Here is the deal: star wars might suck, it might be awsome - regardless a HUGE number of players are going to at least preorder and try the game - probably even most of these people saying they are not going to play. All these posts discussing the pro's and con's, all the post discussing the enormous budget of bioware -all this crap is great press for SWTOR - nearly every mmo player know's about it and has some opinion on the game.
I'm guessing this game is going to have a huge population. As far as bioware goes I've enjoyed their games in the past, they give me no reason to doubt SWTOR.
Time and time again, people have both shown that voice acting isn't such a huge cost in the face of the budget and that the notion of carrying money over from one feature into another is unrealistic, don't start it again, look in the other threads on that.
Thats incorrect and i suggest you learn your facts, voice acting is in fact a huge chunk of budget more so than simply adding a few more artists or dev's to the team in order to churn out better and more polished game code for both server and client.
The mere fact that bioware has already dumped 150mil on a game should be a red flag in todays market, lets hope the hype lives up otherwise it will be no different than the rest of the MMO's that fail in its first year out.
Hiring 100 voice actors at $50000 wage for their work each at average = 5 million dollars, adding it to the game costs as well, but they already had the tech from previous games like ME (as seen on GDC this year) which makes it not such a huge chunk.
Do you really believe you can just hire more and more people and make the game better by it? That's just ridiculous, there's a limit to how big their team can be and it is already huge, so huge in fact, that they were running into trouble with the game engine they were using, any more would have slowed down the process instead of made it any better.
And all this is based on the speculation and pure opinion that voice acting isn't a big deal for many people in the first place.
I suggest you get your facts straight first.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Comments
All you people saying that Bioware is not innovating at all have not been paying attention. Yes, voice acting has been in other MMOs... but no other MMO has ever been FULLY voice acted. I know that's not an innovation really, but it something that is being done differently from the others. And knowing Bioware's track-record in that regard, I am honestly surprised many of you aren't happy about this. Are you honestly saying you just want them to make the game like every other generic POS mmo that has been released over the last few years?? Come on people... they are trying to branch out here. Give them a friggin break!
As for things I see as truly innovative in SWTOR: The unique storylines for every class? Or the fact that the story changes depending on your actions? Or the companion characters that grow and evolve with you and react to your actions along the way... I don't know what games you guys have been playing, but I have tried almost every major MMO that has been released since Ultima Online and those features aren't in any of them...
If you don't think those are innovative, please explain to me exactly which MMOs you know of that have each of those features.
Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 has everything you are describing and more, if it comes out before SWTOR then BioWare would not be the first to make a fully voiced individual story driven mmorpg.
I won't even mention companions because GW1 has already done that, so you see their is nothing innovative about SWTOR, it's just BioWare tell you they are the first.
GW2 latedt update Story Story, mind you GW1 has the best story content at the moment it was only right that GW2 is taken to the next level.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/news/read/17068/Guild-Wars-2-ArenaNet-Reveals-Personal-Story-System-Details.html
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
The mind boggles, though not just for the reason you state.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
MMO players in general are the most immature group of people around... The sad part is the average age is like mid 20's+.. Oh well..
It's pretty simple though.. The average MMO player is clueless as to what they want in a game. Add to that the abnormally high level of immaturity and what you get is a bunch of middle aged cry babies.
Give em an ice cream cone, they want an ice cream sandwich, give them the ice cream sandwich and the ice cream isn't as good as the ice cream that was in the cone. Change the ice cream and now cones have been nerfed..
If the players had any clue as to how socially inappropriate and unacceptable their behavior is, things might change.. But that won't happen.. Most of them still get patted on the back by SOMEBODY when they throw their little emo tie raids and break their keyboards.. over stupid things like.. a company actually trying to deliver a quality product in a genre that has seen fail after fail release..
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Umm... no. I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong. For one thing, I was talking about games already in existence. No one has named any because there are none. And on the topic of Guild Wars 2, it is important to remember that ArenaNet started development of that game in 2007. Bioware and Lucasarts began development of SWTOR in 2005. This means that any potential features GW2 may borrow from TOR, Bioware did it first... which commonly = innovation.
And furthermore, nothing I have read indicates that the personal story system in Guild Wars 2 is anything even close to what they are talking about doing in SWTOR. This game will essentially have 8 full Bioware games in one. While the GW2 system sounds very cool, I seriously doubt it will have anywhere near the amount of class-specific content available in TOR.
I definitely am looking forward to GW2 as well, but saying that SWTOR didn't innovate anything simply because GW2 is jacking some of the same features after the fact is a very very poor argument.
to add on to that GW2 is gonna be a shape your story kinda thing as apposed to SWTOR, where right from the beggining all classes are different, so you dont start your game the same for every class, like most mmos. Plus, does GW2 even have voice acting?
MMOs played: Too many
Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise
Umm, no sorry ArenaNet are not jacking anything.
Companions= GW1 They have done this already, go check out what companions do in GW1.
Story mode= GW1 They have done this already, currently GW1 is the best story driven mmorpg on the market , now they are giving us personal story and race story plus other story content that matches anything that BioWare are doing, read the article properly then you will see.
As of now SWTOR is looking like a distant follower, Arena Net already had a mmorpg that had these features and sold 6 million copies, if anyone is jacking then it's BioWare.
Who was arguing, i was commenting on the facts.
SWTOR who?
You loyal fans of BioWare need to get on their forums and start asking for more info because as it stands now, many are taking them for a joke company who really are all over the place.
E3 will be the nail in the coffin, i really hope they have some great info for it's follower because another planet update or story update will really send people the other way.
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
The bottom line is that Bioware needs to start showing more than just planets. They need to show more gameplay and start to get people more interested in their mmo.
It is a bad decision if your perspective of MMO's is that the majority of fun is derived from other players. I don't know if this is still true but I remember something about the player's voice being acted? Its pointless.
Agreed. I know it's still awhile from release, but the thibngs they have shown so far... well theyre either bad, or good, but just that.... good. Nothing amazing, or even really above average/decent. It doesnt really look much better than anything else out there other than they made a couple slight little tweaks to things like combat animations & voiced over more stuff than them.
I know it sounds like i keep just trolling the game, but it's not my intention, i was pretty eager to play the game too, and was waiting for them to show us something great. They just haven't done that yet, not even close IMO. Perhaps they will finally get around to it in the coming months and pull something out that actually makes me say "Now THAT is a game i want to play". I had faith in Bioware to make a really amazing game here, but that faith is quickly fading. I don't doubt that the game will be good, especially for some people, but i was kind of hoping for something more than mediocre with a few nice things added in.
SWTOR and GW2 are 2 of the game sim looking most forward too, and putting the 2 in comparison... GW2 has released probably about half the info SWTOR has (considering things like info on classes, combat, story, etc) and it already looking like a much better prospect than SWTOR. So what's gonna happen when GW2 starts releasing all the rest? Will SWTOR step it up too, or will they just continue down the same path?
Really? You say GW came up with companions? Cuz thats in almost all rpgs. (single player that is) Including knights of the old republic which came out before Guild wars. And after all SWTOR is taking place after KOTOR and everything you know. No1 is jacking anything, all thats happening in this thread now are a bunch of lies facts that arent backed up with sources.
MMOs played: Too many
Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise
Marketing is all about timing, which they have ample amounts of. First they show a little leg, now we're begging for more. Working as intended....
I've never quite understood getting angry about a lack of information, especially for a game that's over a year away. Remember there's still no set release date, only a window they're aiming for. No game to date (i know of) has released during their first planned schedule. They always get delayed, I doubt TOR will be any different.
We won't know anything solid for another 6 months (most likely). Even then we probably wont know in great detail all planned features until about 8-9 months from now. Giving them 4-5 months to promote said features.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree. Lack of information a year from release, or just under a year. Is no problem. Especially with E3 coming.. if it's anything like last E3, hold onto your hats.
When is E3 anyway, isn't it soon?
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I'm totally on the same page with you... the latest information for Guild Wars 2 has knocked me seven ways from Sunday. Finally, someone is tackling some of the blandness in MMOs. And they are not going to ask me to pay every month. Just brilliant.
TOR is looking interesting still. It remains to be seen what payment model they will have. And it remains to be seen what they will reveal about the game other than a solid emphasis on story. What would get me excited is good space combat but many people dont think this is going to be in. The one thing that almost sucked me into trying STO was alternating between ground and space.
However, I don't agree that Bioware *needs* to release more information at this stage. There is no real urgency, it is just us that is impatient and we are a very small part of their audience. What will count is what the information is. If it is good, we will instantly forgive any waiting time.
Final comment. Compared to GW2, there is no real innovation in TOR. That doesn't mean it wont be awesome, it just wont be innovative.
Guild Wars 2 's story will not be presented in the same way as TOR's, for one, there is no repeated story content between classes for TOR, while that does seem to be the case in GW2 (although limited by some factors).
TOR's companions are not henchmen as seen in GW, they're unique to each class, you can only have one active at any time and they are more like companions in other BW games.
And to the people saying BW needs to reveal more info: of course I want more as well, but they're not the only ones, GW2 which is the game that suddenly is praised as the chief innovator, has not released much if any real gameplay footage either.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Well, if you ask me, as a player, I'm going to prefer it *with* voice acting rather than *without*.
And I'm not about to tell Bioware how to spend their money.
Its not the voice over, its the fact that with THE AMOUNT of money dumped into such a cosmetic feature it could have been used to further enhance and develop the game both code and hardware wise!
He didn't say MMOs have been fully voice-acted for 5 years. He said there has been voice acting in MMOs for 5+ years, which is true; Everquest 2, for example, had a lot of voice acting 5+ years ago when it released. He then responded to that fact by opining that what BioWare are doing isn't innovation, it's merely expanding on a feature that has already existed.
Doing "more" of something isn't innovation.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Time and time again, people have both shown that voice acting isn't such a huge cost in the face of the budget and that the notion of carrying money over from one feature into another is unrealistic, don't start it again, look in the other threads on that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Voice acting isn't an innovation, although the amount of it could be seen as one.
The innovation is introducing a branching storyline, a dialogue system and a group dialogue system.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Absolutely right.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Thats incorrect and i suggest you learn your facts, voice acting is in fact a huge chunk of budget more so than simply adding a few more artists or dev's to the team in order to churn out better and more polished game code for both server and client.
The mere fact that bioware has already dumped 150mil on a game should be a red flag in todays market, lets hope the hype lives up otherwise it will be no different than the rest of the MMO's that fail in its first year out.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Here is the deal: star wars might suck, it might be awsome - regardless a HUGE number of players are going to at least preorder and try the game - probably even most of these people saying they are not going to play. All these posts discussing the pro's and con's, all the post discussing the enormous budget of bioware -all this crap is great press for SWTOR - nearly every mmo player know's about it and has some opinion on the game.
I'm guessing this game is going to have a huge population. As far as bioware goes I've enjoyed their games in the past, they give me no reason to doubt SWTOR.
Hiring 100 voice actors at $50000 wage for their work each at average = 5 million dollars, adding it to the game costs as well, but they already had the tech from previous games like ME (as seen on GDC this year) which makes it not such a huge chunk.
Do you really believe you can just hire more and more people and make the game better by it? That's just ridiculous, there's a limit to how big their team can be and it is already huge, so huge in fact, that they were running into trouble with the game engine they were using, any more would have slowed down the process instead of made it any better.
And all this is based on the speculation and pure opinion that voice acting isn't a big deal for many people in the first place.
I suggest you get your facts straight first.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!