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  • x3r0hx3r0h Member Posts: 186

    Originally posted by zonzai

    Originally posted by Warband

    Let's be honest here if Bioware shown a large amount of it's multiplayer aspects first instead of it's borderline single-player aspects we wouldn't have even half of the moaning we currently have.

    First of all, I have to ask... Are you a damn fool?  Of course there would be just as much complaining, it would just be about different stuff.  You have to understand, Bioware + Star Wars = big.  Big + MMO = bitching, and lots of it.  Second, I'm pretty sure that the first video ever released about SWTOR has at least one dev saying, and I paraquote, "This is primarily a story-based PvE game, if you don't like that there are other games that focus on PvP."  NOTICE:  I am not stating that is right or wrong and I don't care one way or the other whether anybody likes it or whatever.  I don't have enough interest in the game's success or failure to care (other than my 6 shares of EA stock of course).

    Although I agree wholeheartedly with you zonzai, I am curious to know why you are not interested in SWTOR and what game you are currently playing because at the moment, I am looking for a new game to play.

    __________________________________________________________________________________________
    "Your pride, good sir, far exceeds your worth." -x3r0h

    Oldest mmorpg.com member with the least amount of post counts. That counts for something, right?

  • mrw0lfmrw0lf Member Posts: 2,269

    Marketing is a tricky thing, for mmo's, film, etc even moreso because at the time of much of the hype period there effectively is no product.

    However in many ways it is similar and it works thus; BW/LA announce the new SW mmo at which point everyone sings both their praises because at the time of the announcement this game is all things to all people. We know though the simple matter of FACT is that no game is going to suit everybody.

    Over time they are requested to release information about the game both from internal and external forces for obvious reasons. From this point forward there is no choice but to alienate a percentage of the original interested parties, us. By the time this game releases there will inevitably be far, far more people complaining about various other design choices that were made which didn't suit their original vision when they first heard about the venture.

    By that time this specific issue, for many will be a thing of the past and non-issue for one of two reasons, either their fears are proven true and this will primarily be a single online co-op game and they will have abandoned the game, or their fears will have proven false and all will be forgiven.

    To say that the PR team made an error is something we simply will never know, look how many people praise and play GW's for an example of the far, far end of this spectrum. What we do know is no matter what they released there will have been a backlash.

    There was an editorial on this site recently along the lines of 'top 5 things devs need to remember', the last one on that list was, 'we the players, are a fickle bunch'. No truer a sentiment was written.

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    Messed up because some trolls on a site that is dedicated to bashing games of all and every sort by fanboys of some other genre, especially if it's a big release, find that they released too little information on so called "MMO aspects" (which is holding the game by a double standard, as few if any of other upcoming mmo's are asked about this at all)?

    The numbers speak for themselves: 612000+ registered users on the forums, widespread hype, popular gaming sites begging for interviews...

    If anything they did TOO well of a job, as everyone is 'starved' for information and gets pissed at them not releasing more (which is again, double standards).

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • JawusJawus Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by mrw0lf

    There was an editorial on this site recently along the lines of 'top 5 things devs need to remember', the last one on that list was, 'we the players, are a fickle bunch'. No truer a sentiment was written.

    I dont know.  Since when did a more meaningless statement gain meaning?

     

    How about stopping the nonsense, thinking out loud, and rather than rolling over submissively and not recognizing a play for single-player content over massively multiplayer content and accepting paying more for less, and give us back our open-world, community involved, massively multiplayer content, game-play, core game design, and PR.

  • mrw0lfmrw0lf Member Posts: 2,269

    Originally posted by Jawus

    Originally posted by mrw0lf



    There was an editorial on this site recently along the lines of 'top 5 things devs need to remember', the last one on that list was, 'we the players, are a fickle bunch'. No truer a sentiment was written.

    I dont know.  Since when did a more meaningless statement gain meaning?

     

    How about stopping the nonsense, thinking out loud, and rather than rolling over submissively and not recognizing a play for single-player content over massively multiplayer content and accepting paying more for less, and give us back our open-world, community involved, massively multiplayer content, game-play, core game design, and PR.

    Lets just hypothosise for a moment though, we pretend you're wrong and the game is in fact no different from the majority of other mmo's out there with regard to its grouping aspect. Will you not be playing simply because 9-12 months previously you misunderstood what was being advertised? Thats nose would be paying a hard price for the face.

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Originally posted by Jawus

    Originally posted by mrw0lf



    There was an editorial on this site recently along the lines of 'top 5 things devs need to remember', the last one on that list was, 'we the players, are a fickle bunch'. No truer a sentiment was written.

    I dont know.  Since when did a more meaningless statement gain meaning?

     

    How about stopping the nonsense, thinking out loud, and rather than rolling over submissively and not recognizing a play for single-player content over massively multiplayer content and accepting paying more for less, and give us back our open-world, community involved, massively multiplayer content, game-play, core game design, and PR.

    That is exactly what they are doing, giving back. Sadly naysayers here don't really care what SWTOR says or publishes they will just concentrate on what has not be published.

    Bioware are doing a fantastic job, oh it must hurt so bad , they are giving back gameplay and this I believe is what is annoying the doom and gloom squad resideing at MMORPG.com central. Well hard luck, just can't remember a more professional set-up than Bioware.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • SerpentarSerpentar Member Posts: 246

    Originally posted by Isane

    Originally posted by Jawus


    Originally posted by mrw0lf



    There was an editorial on this site recently along the lines of 'top 5 things devs need to remember', the last one on that list was, 'we the players, are a fickle bunch'. No truer a sentiment was written.

    I dont know.  Since when did a more meaningless statement gain meaning?

     

    How about stopping the nonsense, thinking out loud, and rather than rolling over submissively and not recognizing a play for single-player content over massively multiplayer content and accepting paying more for less, and give us back our open-world, community involved, massively multiplayer content, game-play, core game design, and PR.

    That is exactly what they are doing, giving back. Sadly naysayers here don't really care what SWTOR says or publishes they will just concentrate on what has not be published.

    Bioware are doing a fantastic job, oh it must hurt so bad , they are giving back gameplay and this I believe is what is annoying the doom and gloom squad resideing at MMORPG.com central. Well hard luck, just can't remember a more professional set-up than Bioware.

    I don't get over hyped over any MMOs anymore. Between the Skill Trees, Companions, and art style. I decided that this game rates a bit lower on my anctipation scale then say TERA or GW2. Frankly we dont know enough about any of these games. But the whole 'second coming' posts that people spin on this site are just as bad as the 'rain of hellfire' ones. They both at times propergate mis information that is deterimental.  

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    I don't see any multiplayer aspects being shown on any of the other games currently in development.  Thats really not how the development cycle of MMOs go.  Was the first video we saw of WAR a 30 on 30 battle?  How about a game like AION, did we see a three person team on the first gameplay video?    

     

    Usually developers showcase things like combat and environment first, which we've seen here, as well as story,  some grouping and PvP.  thats what we've SEEN in the videos... but large scale multiplayer at a year off from launch?  Lets get real here.  This is again, holding TOR to a double standard because they're the big guys and they're supposed to just take it.  Why don't we argue about why the first video we saw from Guild Wars 2 was a class video and not an open world Events video since we hear about that system alot?    Maybe we should go bother Funcom about The Secret World not showing us the multiplayer PvP aspects using their non-class-based system.

     

    Will we see those things?  No doubt,  but a year from launch?  Doubtful.



  • BannneBannne Member Posts: 244

    Originally posted by Swanea

    Originally posted by Comnitus


    Originally posted by pepsi1028

    Okay Mr.AssumeAlot, someone messed up on a game that me, you, or any orther outside source has played on their computers.  Someone messed up on the point that we know that its multiplayer considering it's an MMO.  So Bioware decidesd to, I don't know, maybe advertise the strong aspects of the game of which seperate it apart from (most) everything.  I am sorry, but you show nothing to back this up and clearly do not show much of a reason to assume that someone dropped the ball.

    But... but I don't understand. I want to hear about what TOR has in common with 99% of other MMOs out there, not what they're trying to do differently. I'm not alone, either. I have a huge, HUGE group of people who think like me (though I can't prove that fact). So yeah. BioWare messed up.

    They already stated in an interview, they are focusing on things that are 110% ready to go.  They also mentioned they are focused on what's different in their MMO then all the others.  Otherwise they could have called this "World Of Ever Rings of Conan's Warhammer".  They mentioned in a few interviews, that their game will have everything a normal triple A MMO has. End game raiding, pvp, pve, crafting, etc.

    Do I want to hear what they are doing differently? Well duh!  Do I wanna know about those things that every normal triple A MMO has? Of course, because it will have a different spin on it.  If we are in pre order closed beta/Open beta and we have no concrete info, then I think it's time to go crazy.  But the game is a year away....I know patience is a hard thing to come by, but jeeze.  The game is not due out soon.

    GW2 was supposed to be in beta last year.  We know as little if not less about that game too, and it's predicted now to release around the same time.  Why are so few people going crazy about that? What about TERA?

    GW2 was pushed back because they expanded the vast underwater content, this information is out there,it's not hard to find. As for not knowing about the game, well sorry their is more info about GW2 than their is swtor.

    I guess the swtor/bioware fans have a hard time watching their game go down the list. GW2 was not hyped at all,it wasn't even on the list until the recent flow of info. All the over hype was with BioWare but they have shown that they really don't have a clue what the mmorpg want.

    E3 will be the nail in the coffin, if they don't come with a mass of info then it will be the loyal BioWare fans following that game. Someone needs to shoot their PR guru because they really haven't got a clue.

    What was the point in taking beta sign ups 6-8 months ago, lol dumb move there.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Bannne

    Originally posted by Swanea


    Originally posted by Comnitus


    Originally posted by pepsi1028

    Okay Mr.AssumeAlot, someone messed up on a game that me, you, or any orther outside source has played on their computers.  Someone messed up on the point that we know that its multiplayer considering it's an MMO.  So Bioware decidesd to, I don't know, maybe advertise the strong aspects of the game of which seperate it apart from (most) everything.  I am sorry, but you show nothing to back this up and clearly do not show much of a reason to assume that someone dropped the ball.

    But... but I don't understand. I want to hear about what TOR has in common with 99% of other MMOs out there, not what they're trying to do differently. I'm not alone, either. I have a huge, HUGE group of people who think like me (though I can't prove that fact). So yeah. BioWare messed up.

    They already stated in an interview, they are focusing on things that are 110% ready to go.  They also mentioned they are focused on what's different in their MMO then all the others.  Otherwise they could have called this "World Of Ever Rings of Conan's Warhammer".  They mentioned in a few interviews, that their game will have everything a normal triple A MMO has. End game raiding, pvp, pve, crafting, etc.

    Do I want to hear what they are doing differently? Well duh!  Do I wanna know about those things that every normal triple A MMO has? Of course, because it will have a different spin on it.  If we are in pre order closed beta/Open beta and we have no concrete info, then I think it's time to go crazy.  But the game is a year away....I know patience is a hard thing to come by, but jeeze.  The game is not due out soon.

    GW2 was supposed to be in beta last year.  We know as little if not less about that game too, and it's predicted now to release around the same time.  Why are so few people going crazy about that? What about TERA?

    GW2 was pushed back because they expanded the vast underwater content, this information is out there,it's not hard to find. As for not knowing about the game, well sorry their is more info about GW2 than their is swtor.

     

    I guess the swtor/bioware fans have a hard time watching their game go down the list. GW2 was not hyped at all,it wasn't even on the list until the recent flow of info. All the over hype was with BioWare but they have shown that they really don't have a clue what the mmorpg want.

    E3 will be the nail in the coffin, if they don't come with a mass of info then it will be the loyal BioWare fans following that game. Someone needs to shoot their PR guru because they really haven't got a clue.

    What was the point in taking beta sign ups 6-8 months ago, lol dumb move there.

    I think your mistaken, GW2 has very little information on it, in fact, we haven't seen a lick of combat and only what, 2 classes revealed, with only one being shown in game displaying a handful of skills?  GW2 has barely shown anything.  



  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521



    Originally posted by Warband
    Let's be honest here if Bioware shown a large amount of it's multiplayer aspects first instead of it's borderline single-player aspects we wouldn't have even half of the moaning we currently have.


    No, then you'd be moaning and bitching about how its absolutely no different from every other MMO on the planet.

  • WarbandWarband Member UncommonPosts: 723

    Originally posted by Draemos

     






    Originally posted by Warband

    Let's be honest here if Bioware shown a large amount of it's multiplayer aspects first instead of it's borderline single-player aspects we wouldn't have even half of the moaning we currently have.




     



    No, then you'd be moaning and bitching about how its absolutely no different from every other MMO on the planet.

    Yes nice assumption right there.......... If Bioware were taking multiplayer aspects in interesting new ways why would I be bitching? Hell I'm not even bitching about the features they've released currently it's just a heck of a lot of people and the notion is growing when it really shouldn't be.

  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521

    Originally posted by Warband

    Originally posted by Draemos

     






    Originally posted by Warband

    Let's be honest here if Bioware shown a large amount of it's multiplayer aspects first instead of it's borderline single-player aspects we wouldn't have even half of the moaning we currently have.





     



    No, then you'd be moaning and bitching about how its absolutely no different from every other MMO on the planet.

    Yes nice assumption right there.......... If Bioware were taking multiplayer aspects in interesting new ways why would I be bitching? Hell I'm not even bitching about the features they've released currently it's just a heck of a lot of people and the notion is growing when it really shouldn't be.

    Because they aren't going to.  I thought that was pretty much obvious?  The innovative part of the game is going to be what they've released up to this point.  The rest of the game is going to be standard MMO fare.  That is why they are focusing on the storyline/voice-acting/etc.  Marketing 101, you advertise what makes you different.

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095

    Originally posted by Warband

    I'm not arguing that soloing or story is a bad thing etc. I'm saying those things are naturally expected in a Bioware mmo. Shouldn't they have shown things that weren't expected in a Bioware mmo, things that are also different to other things in the genre?

    Wouldn't that have been better recieved than things we assumed would be in the game anyway?

     

    The only mistake Bioware is guilty of, was expecting people to be more smarter and mmo savvy. I also think they put to much faith in dumb people to understand an comprehend, that when they give out information such as, TOR will have all the bells and whistles that all other mmo's have plus the new things they are adding, people would get it and move on.

    It really comes down to people having no patience and a lack of understanding.

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095

    Originally posted by Bannne

    Originally posted by Swanea


    Originally posted by Comnitus


    Originally posted by pepsi1028

    Okay Mr.AssumeAlot, someone messed up on a game that me, you, or any orther outside source has played on their computers.  Someone messed up on the point that we know that its multiplayer considering it's an MMO.  So Bioware decidesd to, I don't know, maybe advertise the strong aspects of the game of which seperate it apart from (most) everything.  I am sorry, but you show nothing to back this up and clearly do not show much of a reason to assume that someone dropped the ball.

    But... but I don't understand. I want to hear about what TOR has in common with 99% of other MMOs out there, not what they're trying to do differently. I'm not alone, either. I have a huge, HUGE group of people who think like me (though I can't prove that fact). So yeah. BioWare messed up.

    They already stated in an interview, they are focusing on things that are 110% ready to go.  They also mentioned they are focused on what's different in their MMO then all the others.  Otherwise they could have called this "World Of Ever Rings of Conan's Warhammer".  They mentioned in a few interviews, that their game will have everything a normal triple A MMO has. End game raiding, pvp, pve, crafting, etc.

    Do I want to hear what they are doing differently? Well duh!  Do I wanna know about those things that every normal triple A MMO has? Of course, because it will have a different spin on it.  If we are in pre order closed beta/Open beta and we have no concrete info, then I think it's time to go crazy.  But the game is a year away....I know patience is a hard thing to come by, but jeeze.  The game is not due out soon.

    GW2 was supposed to be in beta last year.  We know as little if not less about that game too, and it's predicted now to release around the same time.  Why are so few people going crazy about that? What about TERA?

    GW2 was pushed back because they expanded the vast underwater content, this information is out there,it's not hard to find. As for not knowing about the game, well sorry their is more info about GW2 than their is swtor.

    I guess the swtor/bioware fans have a hard time watching their game go down the list. GW2 was not hyped at all,it wasn't even on the list until the recent flow of info. All the over hype was with BioWare but they have shown that they really don't have a clue what the mmorpg want.

    E3 will be the nail in the coffin, if they don't come with a mass of info then it will be the loyal BioWare fans following that game. Someone needs to shoot their PR guru because they really haven't got a clue.

    What was the point in taking beta sign ups 6-8 months ago, lol dumb move there.

     

    And  who are you, the all knowing mmorpger. For all anyone knows, there could be hundreds of people in beta at the moment with a very strict NDA in tow.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    Originally posted by musicmann

     

     And  who are you, the all knowing mmorpger. For all anyone knows, there could be hundreds of people in beta at the moment with a very strict NDA in tow.

    The NDA on the site does not forbid you from saying you've been selected for the beta test; so no, beta didn't start or we'd have heard about it.

    Why start 6-8 months before with signups? Well why the heck not?

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Member Posts: 1,190


    Originally posted by musicmann

    Originally posted by Bannne

    Originally posted by Swanea


    Originally posted by Comnitus


    Originally posted by pepsi1028

    Okay Mr.AssumeAlot, someone messed up on a game that me, you, or any orther outside source has played on their computers.  Someone messed up on the point that we know that its multiplayer considering it's an MMO.  So Bioware decidesd to, I don't know, maybe advertise the strong aspects of the game of which seperate it apart from (most) everything.  I am sorry, but you show nothing to back this up and clearly do not show much of a reason to assume that someone dropped the ball.
    But... but I don't understand. I want to hear about what TOR has in common with 99% of other MMOs out there, not what they're trying to do differently. I'm not alone, either. I have a huge, HUGE group of people who think like me (though I can't prove that fact). So yeah. BioWare messed up.


    They already stated in an interview, they are focusing on things that are 110% ready to go.  They also mentioned they are focused on what's different in their MMO then all the others.  Otherwise they could have called this "World Of Ever Rings of Conan's Warhammer".  They mentioned in a few interviews, that their game will have everything a normal triple A MMO has. End game raiding, pvp, pve, crafting, etc.
    Do I want to hear what they are doing differently? Well duh!  Do I wanna know about those things that every normal triple A MMO has? Of course, because it will have a different spin on it.  If we are in pre order closed beta/Open beta and we have no concrete info, then I think it's time to go crazy.  But the game is a year away....I know patience is a hard thing to come by, but jeeze.  The game is not due out soon.
    GW2 was supposed to be in beta last year.  We know as little if not less about that game too, and it's predicted now to release around the same time.  Why are so few people going crazy about that? What about TERA?


    GW2 was pushed back because they expanded the vast underwater content, this information is out there,it's not hard to find. As for not knowing about the game, well sorry their is more info about GW2 than their is swtor.
    I guess the swtor/bioware fans have a hard time watching their game go down the list. GW2 was not hyped at all,it wasn't even on the list until the recent flow of info. All the over hype was with BioWare but they have shown that they really don't have a clue what the mmorpg want.
    E3 will be the nail in the coffin, if they don't come with a mass of info then it will be the loyal BioWare fans following that game. Someone needs to shoot their PR guru because they really haven't got a clue.
    What was the point in taking beta sign ups 6-8 months ago, lol dumb move there.


     
    And  who are you, the all knowing mmorpger. For all anyone knows, there could be hundreds of people in beta at the moment with a very strict NDA in tow.

    For all we know you're an alien trying to infiltrate the CIA.

    You guys tried last time to infiltrate the KGB...but they killed you with fire. And acid. And plutonium.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134

    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    Originally posted by musicmann


     

     And  who are you, the all knowing mmorpger. For all anyone knows, there could be hundreds of people in beta at the moment with a very strict NDA in tow.

    The NDA on the site does not forbid you from saying you've been selected for the beta test; so no, beta didn't start or we'd have heard about it.

    Why start 6-8 months before with signups? Well why the heck not?

    Forgot to mention BioWare would announce when the invite phase began.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    Originally posted by greed0104

    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl


    Originally posted by musicmann


     

     And  who are you, the all knowing mmorpger. For all anyone knows, there could be hundreds of people in beta at the moment with a very strict NDA in tow.

    The NDA on the site does not forbid you from saying you've been selected for the beta test; so no, beta didn't start or we'd have heard about it.

    Why start 6-8 months before with signups? Well why the heck not?

    Forgot to mention BioWare would announce when the invite phase began.

    Indeed

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • NytakitoNytakito Member Posts: 381

    Originally posted by Warband

    Let's be honest here if Bioware shown a large amount of it's multiplayer aspects first instead of it's borderline single-player aspects we wouldn't have even half of the moaning we currently have. Either the PR department completely dropped the ball and didn't see this inevitable outcome or the developers messed up and it wasn't the PR's fault at all because the vast majority of the games "innovative" features that separate it from other games is it's story and voice overs etc with everything else being mediocre meaning if they had shown those features first the moaning would have been even worse.

    Of course there's a third option which is they didn't want to show the multiplayer aspects because they weren't ready yet but this heavily hints towards the latter because if the multiplayer part was so important why is the borderline single player areas the only parts viewable to the public yet barely none of the supposedly "important" multiplayer aspects are.

    I'm really hoping for the former because I really want this to be a great game but the fact of the matter is if Bioware had released the multiplayer aspects of this game first we wouldn't be stuck with this luke-warm feeling of hype we have now.  Either way somebody messed up.

     That's why I'd prefer if a comany wouldn't announce ANYTHING about up and coming MMO's until Beta.  Nothing but Chicken Little's in the MMO community, why bother giving them stuff to chew on at all???  The posts here attest to the fact that MMO players simply can't handle the reality that surrounds the development of the games they play. 

    "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Member Posts: 1,089

    I have to agree there would be as much, if not more, whining if other aspects had been focused on first for the reveals.  "OMG only 8 playable races=fail!"  "Crafting looks weak!"  blah blah blah.

    Bioware is known for their strong RPG aspects...why not trumpet those first?  

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134

    Originally posted by Darth_Osor

    I have to agree there would be as much, if not more, whining if other aspects had been focused on first for the reveals.  "OMG only 8 playable races=fail!"  "Crafting looks weak!"  blah blah blah.

    Bioware is known for their strong RPG aspects...why not trumpet those first?  

    Another example, If they had mentioned everything not new to the genre people would be asking why they should play a game that offers nothing new.

  • KothosesKothoses Member UncommonPosts: 931

    Originally posted by Marcus-

    I think its pretty safe to say there would be vast amounts moaning no matter what they said...

     

    edit..

    Drak beat me :p

    Correction.

     

    People here will moan no matter what and be convinced that this game will fail. 

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