Two articles now on MMORPG.COM and both are promoting the new F2P news for LOTRO. Why is MMORPG.COM so eager to promote it? Could you not just as easily produced an article with 5 reasons why NOT to be excited about F2P LoTRO?
That sure would better reflect the people watching this site rather than the people advertising on it.
Five reasons to be excited. Wow. And still I am not excited at all. Nor do I feel the need to grasp at straws, because I should be excited. Why was this written? To show an optimistic face in a pessimistic world. Or, in other words, mmorpg.com versus its visitors?
trust MMORPG.com to stick up for Turbine... how much have you guys been paid to spurt their propaganda about .
The root cause Here is Warner bro's they are only interested in screwing people over for their cash,
I knew as soon as they bought turbine this would turn out to be a huge mistake. I regret investing my time and money in this game. I don't see any benefit to me staying with the game recieving crap stories. about delayed updates and expansions.
codemasters europe are on the brink of collapse too.. the games doomed
theres gonna be another publisher announcement soon. you'll see
I think it's a mistake to assume that the F2P model is bad for the game in the same way that it's wrong to assume that LoTRO will automatically become more successfull since that's what happened to DDO. There are a ton of reasons why people don't play LoTRO, despite their countless trials and welcome back promotions. Going F2P doesn't change the game itself and in the end that's what determines how many people play the game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lotro will be one of the most content rich and polished F2P games ever. BUT it will also be one of the most costly F2P games ever.
A lot of F2P fans claim they don't want to pay money. Yet how then is a company to pay for its servers and such? Most F2P games have build their games to have relative low hardware and support costs. Can Turbine generate enough cash from its shop to offset the drop in subscriptions PLUS the additional players? Remember that Lotro has no shards/instances. If there are 2000 people in the shire, the server locks up and the current design of the game has no way around it except to create an entire new server cluster. That costs a lot more money then just running another instance to handle whatever area is currently popular.
During the initial rush Turbine might have to add virtual worlds and then when the rush dies down, they might have to merge them again. Not good because any mention of a server merge is a sure sign to anyone that a MMO is dying.
Another problem is content. Lotro has got tons of it. In fact you could spend an awful lot of time just doing all the quests in the totally free zones, the starter areas. Later areas start costing money but just the quests in it. While Lotro is about questing, F2P gamers are used to grinding on mobs only and so could at least until Moria face an open world.
Questing as a group? Hard in a world where there will be lots of "oops, I haven't bought this area yet".
Personally, I don't know. Turbine has re-imagined Lotro before and it gave us the radiance grind and legendary items. Two additions I could have done without. Frankly, I liked the base game but with that now going totally solo I don't even really feel the need to roll another alt. Only class I haven't done yet is Champ and I feel that with the influx of F2P, that class will be over represented anyway.
But hey, good luck to Turbine with this. It will be intresting to see if a fully western EQ-Clone can make it as a F2P title. Personally I think it will make bree more then ever a place for "I can't find X, is the sucksors lol, give me cash". Poor RP players. They are going to have to hide in the deepest areas of Moria.
I'm happy to see mmorpg.com take such a positive stance on this.
If you haven't noticed, more and more the writers on this forum (and sometimes the management itself) have been promoting and endorsing more alternate payment options in MMO's.
The future is crashing over us in waves, not much else to do but roll with it or get out of the game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Simply put, as a founder & lifer, I'm not in support of this move.
I think Turbine should open up a server for people like me and subbers to move to if we chose and keep things as they are now for that server. Then let the F2P mobs do their thing on the rest of the servers. That way everyone gets what they want.
In theory "F2P" is a good model that COULD be the future of the MMO market and it is a future that I would happily embrace if it weren't for a few sad things...
F2P games are never free... there's ALWAYS a cost involved...
Guild Wars (and GW2 for that matter) are not F2P... the core set and the expansions come at 50-60 bucks a pop once a year and you are pretty much forced to buy the expansions... that is 4 bucks a month... it might be cheaper than a subscription MMO but it is not free to play... it's rather a standard game with full online access and support at no additional cost... definitely still my favorite model apart from subs.
The biggest gripe I have with F2P nowadays is that, going in the companies and the press say "there's really a lot of content for an F2P game..." or "this game looks super amazing for an F2P game". Then if someone mentions that you are forced to buy item shop stuff to experience the end game content or certain parts of the game or ANY gameplay at all you will be shunned because, well, they need to make money somehow...
Let's just take a look at Allods. Allods does look amazing and there is a lot of content... FOR A F2P GAME! Only catch - it's not F2P.... if you want to play that game for real at high level you have to chuck tons of money at them for perfumes because that whole FOD business makes the game pretty much unplayable unless you use perfumes... So if you want to do PvP semi hardcore there IS a fixed cost... for a hardcore gamer (let's say 4h a day) that comes to about 20 or more bucks a month... suddenly the game is a on par with most subscription model MMOs and it HAS to be judged using the same standards... and if you compare it to WoW, LotRO or any other sub game it loses on a grand scale because it does not have the content that those games offer.
Allods is just a perfect example of what most F2P games are... Less content, Less support for pretty much the same money input if you want to play it for real every day... It might be a good model for casual players.... but please Mr. and Mrs. Casual, don't forget that there are also hardcore gamers (quite a lot of them actually) who don't enjoy paying per hour played... for hardcore gamers a subscription is kind of like a flat rate. pay a set amount of money and play as much as you want....
Compare it to cell phones if you will.... there's pre paid and there's contracts... if you phone and text a lot a contract aka flat rate might give you more benefits... if you just use your cell phone once a week you're probably better off with pre paid...
I am a hardcore gamer! I have no problem admitting it. I sometimes play 8 or more hours a day. (not neccesarily just MMOs though) I do fully accept the fact, that there are a lot of casual gamers who can't be online everyday. that's completely fine and you're all entitled to games that cater to that playstyle... but at the same time please don't forget that we hardcore gamers still exist, too... and we're not lowlife losers or have no real life... we just like playing games better than what other's might consider "normal"
back on topic.... If F2P is supposed to be the future, then why not use the same system that Blizzard and SoE are using in their item shops? Yeah I know EQ/EQII/WoW are not F2P but their item shop is exactly what item shops are supposed to be imho... you don't HAVE to buy anything.... but you can if you want to.... and a lot of people want to (evidenced by the spectral mount thingy in WoW and by SoE's and Blizzard's general success with those shops). There's nothing in those shops but cute/cool/funny stuff that will enrich your game experience without giving you an unfair advantage over others... which makes it so great... it's not mandatory to have the stuff... people in general are a lot more open to spending money on something if they don't feel obligated to do so or if they just feel it's worth their money.
Unless all those F2P companies understand that they will never bank the hardcore gamers and the F2P model will always remain the subscription model's weird little hunchbacked cousin...
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H> An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots! www.stealth-industries.de
That list was poorly done and glossed over the true aspects.
One particular statement I had to disagree with was LotRO being one of the industry's leaders on timely updates. Amazing how such "knowledgable" people don't know nearly as much about MMOs as they should. Yes let's not give the credit to timely updates to Asheron's Call, which has been doing MONTHLY content updates for almost 11 YEARS now. That game never gets credit from anyone.
There is no such thing. In the end people will have to pay more to have the same experience than they have to now. It starts with the Character Slots. Turbine is lieing when they say that nothing changes for subscribers. VIPs have FIVE Character Slots per server (you have to pay extra for more), current subscribers like me have SEVEN!
That is one thing. The other thing is that Game Cards will go away. I also absolutely dislike the idea of having to pay extra for every piece of fracking content. Before it was 26 Euros for a gamecard every two months. Now I will have the need to pay for something constantly in my face! Plus it ruins the balance of the game. Before everybody had the same chance to get the same gear, etc. Now those with the deeper pockets get more. This totally ruins the immersion and it totally takes the fun out of it for me. And yes I know that Turbine has said that they wont put raid gear into the shops. I am not talking about raid gear however. I do not have any raid gear on my chars, because I usually dont do raids. But all the stuff that I do have, I have earned and fought for and that is rewarding. Now the feeling of reward is gone. Sorry, I just dont get any feeling of reward out of paying my hard earned cash to Turbine.
I can not understand how this is so hard to understand for some people that there are people like me. And there are plenty of us!
You are right. Turbine are wrong. Turbines decision makers are idiots. They saw 500% and dollar signs flashed into their heads blinding them to reality. LOTRO will close in 6 months. The FTP Business model is one giant hoax.
If I get $1 yesterday and $5 today, that's also a 500% increase. My issue with the whole 500% is that it was known that DDO was doing pretty bad, so unless getting absolute figures those percentages can be deceiving. The way I see it, Turbine guys are not idiots their model save DDO and probably LotRo. However, make no mistake this is a not a winner choice more than let's accept the weakness and work around it. LotRo will get more revenues not because the model is so great but mainly because it was having problem with subscribers. For a company, it is easier to keep this model, they are not going to get too much money but they will have a decent revenues and probably more stable.
The f2p strategy is to give the idea of high population in the sense of seeing players everywhere, especially in the low level zones then then the VIPs will have people to whom they can show off their extra power. Some new players might decide to go into the VIP if the game attract them a lot, and especially the ability to have easier quality of life but som extra bucks. Nothing wrong with that, but it is certainly a change in the market targetted, which will be the big consumers instead of big players, which makes sense from business' point of view.
Let's play the guessing game then shall we? How many subscribers do you think DDO had towards the end? 10k, 50k, 100k? It sure as hell wasn't $1 worth of subs so let's at least try to be realistic.
10k subs x $9.99 = $99,900 x 500% = $499,500
50k subs x $9.99 = $499,500 x 500% = $2,497,500
100k subs x $9.99 = $999,000 x 500% = $4,995,000
Looking at the lowest possible numbers and the highest possible numbers we can see that a 500% increase is massive.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
If you have the Moria expansion already purchased, you'll have 7 characters when the new model hits. If you purchase the adventurer's pack, you'll have two more, for a total of 9.
If you stay as a subscription customer, you'll keep everything you have already, nothing will change for you.. in fact you'll gain two things that currently we don't have.
-A stipend of 500 turbine points per month to spend on the cash shop at no extra charge.
-New players to run with your lowbie alts that would otherwise struggle through low end content that requires groups (Great Barrows comes to mind as I can spend an hour or two putting together a fellowship for it).
This isn't really a FREE TO PLAY move, this is more of an EXTENDED TRIAL PERIOD thing.
When I started playing LOTRO, I did so on the 10 day trial. When the trial was over, I went out and bought the Moria expansion, which gave me another free month. When the month was over I nearly dropped the game because I did not want another subscription (commitment) as I already played another MMO with a subscription. Only reason I stayed was because I really liked the game, but for some time the anxiety didn't go away and a few times I nearly canceled my subscription.
This extended trial period would allow new players to ease their way into a subscription. First play for free to level 20, then go out to another location following the epic story line. Play there some, like it, and decide "Hey, I want some more quests here". Buy the quest hub. Do them all and go to the next hub via the epic line. Buy a few more hubs and then realize that it would be cheaper to just get a subscription, and since you've already invested some time and money into the game, it isn't that big of a leap.
Nothing will change. There will be more low level people at first, maybe some returning veterans to see how the game changed since they were gone. But in several months time it will go back to normal and slowly die, just like the rest of them.
They did not put any good new content, they did not make any significant changes, so there is no reason for people to start playing it, it's all same as before.
All they did is changed their pay model, meaning they enhanced the free trial and put RMT stuff. That's not the reason to start loving the game.
I did the LOTRO free trial once, i lasted 2 or 3 days, it didn't "click" me. So why should i play now... Oh yeah, i can buy stuff in the cash shop. Yeah right.
Needless to say everybody is not you, nor will everybody have a similar experience...No Game is for everyone...
To counter your argument though I'll say this. My Best Friend and I have been playing LOTRO almost from Launch. When things really started to slow down in SWG at the beginning of last year I introduced 6 Guildies to LOTRO via the Free Trial...All 6 LOVED the Game from the start. Of the six, three are still playing LOTRO and have yet to quit. 2 more played for a full year, but could no longer afford it when they started playing STO. Both of them are coming back for sure when it goes F2P...The last guys Comp simply can't handle LOTRO...
Simply put, as a founder & lifer, I'm not in support of this move.
I think Turbine should open up a server for people like me and subbers to move to if we chose and keep things as they are now for that server. Then let the F2P mobs do their thing on the rest of the servers. That way everyone gets what they want.
That's not a bad idea at all. As a Lifer I would still stay on Brandywine. But I think the idea is sound and has merit.
It's like my ex-wife always tells me, "You played, now you pay!" It wouldn't be so bad if she didn't have her palm out and the 357 I bought her a fews back pointed at me, but this is a game and play if you want to, no one is holding a gun to your head. Granted, LotRo is a way better game than DDO by far and I would think that many DDO players would rather play LotRo instead of DDO for the quality upgrade, but to be fair that might just be enough to keep LotRo going for a while. I had 2 accounts, played beta but no factions and monster play is for the give me now crowd which leaves many mmorpg players wanting more from the game than is there. That is why I left, its good but not a robust mmorpg for me.
Nope they are losing their fans and opinion leaders and supportive people.
They'll gain the attention of the uninterested and those not willing to pay .
Guess three times where this will lead to ?
Turbine have already proved you wrong that their new FTP customers ARE willing to pay.
Oh yeah ? Where is their official statement of the DOLLARS they raked in on DDO? A growth of 5 times the players and a growth of 5 times the revenue of an almost subs dead game like DDO is no "proof" at all.
Not one single dollar value was attached to what they claimed. Going from 1 dollar to 5 dollars is also a 500% growth you know.
Besides the "Guess 3 times where this will lead to" is an open question to the state of the game and more importantly its long term playing value for serious fans of the game. Not the money counting.
My guild seems fine with the announcement. We are one of the largest guilds on Brandywine and the guild that won the guild competition a few months back. They are not loosing there fans or supportive people. They are loosing the people who think the sky is falling. So, good riddance to them.
I'm leader of a small Brandywine Kin and the reaction is about the same with us. In fact I'd say the reaction was MUCH better than fine knowing we are going to get back at least 3 Guildies in the Fall when it goes F2P...Also, I know My Girlfriend and Her Son will be creating new Accounts. I think we all know at least one or two people who are going to try it out now...I'm actually REALLY excited...I guess we'll see about this time next year how it all turns out...
OK now I am mad. First off it does not mean were going to get more content. At least at end game. I am like why is evybody taking up for LOTRO. LOTRO started this sh**-storm buy deciding to screw over its existing player base. And we think its good because its going F2P.
Heck its not even FTP. Its more like you have a sub, or you buy turbine points and unlock stuff. What is free about that.
Why are we neglecting the fact that Lotro has been going downhill for a year. No content updates in the past 6 months, and now another 3-6 months before we have any more content delivered. And the 90% of that content will be amed at getting the new kids on the block.
I fail to see how any of this is even remotly good in any way. I am not the only one who thinks this way. The forums over at lotro have been heavly moderated. Hunred of post on the matter have been deleted and 20 or more have been closed and allowed to fall 5 and 10 pages behind.
What is so good about Turbine being a bunch of liars, and telling us for over a year they were not taking lotro F2P, then all the sudden do it.
Im like instead of cutting Turbine some slack why are you guys not looking at the real story instead of whats happening. It makes me sick to see so many folks be the tubine kiss up guy and go omg look how good you did something.
Im not exicted about this at all in the least bit, and neither are a lot of folks i did talk to in the allies channel.
OK now I am mad. First off it does not mean were going to get more content. At least at end game. I am like why is mmorpg taking up for LOTRO. LOTRO started this sh**-storm buy deciding to screw over its existing player base. And we think its goo becasue its going F2P.
Heck its not even FTP. Its more like you have a sub, or you buy turbine points and unlock stuff. What is free about that.
Why are we neglecting the fact that Lotro has been going downhill for a year. No content updates in the past 6 months, and now another 3-6 months before we have any more content delivered. And the 90% of that content will be amed at getting the new kids on the block.
I fail to see how any of this is even remotly good in any way. I am not the only one who thinks this way. The forums over at lotro have been heavly moderated. Hunred of post on the matter have been deleted and 20 or more have been closed and allowed to fall 5 and 10 pages behind.
What is so good about Turbine being a bunch of liars, and telling us for over a year they were not taking lotro F2P, then all the sudden do it.
Im like instead of cutting Turbine some slack why are you guys not looking at the real story instead of whats happening. It makes me sick to see so many folks be the tubinde kiss up guy and goo omg look how good you did something.
Im not exicted about this at all in the least bit.
Meh...
I'm not saying everyone is loving it whatsoever, but there is not a single person in My Kin who has a problem with it at all...It's a done deal anyway...What are you going to do? Turbine is fully aware some Folks will quit. People always quit. I wish no one would over this, but some will...And they know it...They're willing to take the risk to get more People playing the Game...Forums are never a clear judgement of the overall reaction. We all know that...Especially in a Casual Game like LOTRO...I've never posted on the LOTRO Forums outside of the Tech help. I don't know of a single Guildy who's Posted there either...So it's not necessarily a solid representation...Though again, I don't doubt some Folks are upset...
It sucks some Folks are so angry about this...I'm actually a bit surprised. I just don't see the downside to this at all...This is not the NGE...They're not changing the Game mechanics at all...If you already Sub, continue and it's the same Game...I just don't see what the big deal is. All the negative I read equates to some VERY wild and unfounded predictions...No one really knows whats going to happen...Why don't we wait and see?...
And btw...IF LOTRO has been going down hill for a year now...Which I don't feel is true at all...Maybe that is the exact reason they are going F2P...To spark the Game once again...I don't know...
this is funny. i swore i would never play this game again even it was free. now here it is testing my resolve. thankfully i saw nothing worth my time in this game at launch that a complete rewrite wouldnt fix, so i doubt the expansions and content added since included that said rewrite have added anything i will fall over and die if i miss.
on a side note, lets say i was new to lotro, with no history to cause me to view the game in bitter unfulfilled colored glasses, the level cap on a f2p model would make me not play. basically, an extended trial with an itemshop ala dungeon and dragons, another game that fails due to retarded limitations on free accounts. free means free with item shop to pay the bills. free does not mean free until we want you to pay. z
Comments
Two articles now on MMORPG.COM and both are promoting the new F2P news for LOTRO. Why is MMORPG.COM so eager to promote it? Could you not just as easily produced an article with 5 reasons why NOT to be excited about F2P LoTRO?
That sure would better reflect the people watching this site rather than the people advertising on it.
My gaming blog
Five reasons to be excited. Wow. And still I am not excited at all. Nor do I feel the need to grasp at straws, because I should be excited. Why was this written? To show an optimistic face in a pessimistic world. Or, in other words, mmorpg.com versus its visitors?
--
Delanor
trust MMORPG.com to stick up for Turbine... how much have you guys been paid to spurt their propaganda about .
The root cause Here is Warner bro's they are only interested in screwing people over for their cash,
I knew as soon as they bought turbine this would turn out to be a huge mistake. I regret investing my time and money in this game. I don't see any benefit to me staying with the game recieving crap stories. about delayed updates and expansions.
codemasters europe are on the brink of collapse too.. the games doomed
theres gonna be another publisher announcement soon. you'll see
It's all Lies...
I think it's a mistake to assume that the F2P model is bad for the game in the same way that it's wrong to assume that LoTRO will automatically become more successfull since that's what happened to DDO. There are a ton of reasons why people don't play LoTRO, despite their countless trials and welcome back promotions. Going F2P doesn't change the game itself and in the end that's what determines how many people play the game.
The only real reason to be excited from Turbines perspective is if reveneues increase over this move, regardless if the player base changes a bit.
I think it will help LotRO overall, but time will tell.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm happy to see mmorpg.com take such a positive stance on this.
Lotro will be one of the most content rich and polished F2P games ever. BUT it will also be one of the most costly F2P games ever.
A lot of F2P fans claim they don't want to pay money. Yet how then is a company to pay for its servers and such? Most F2P games have build their games to have relative low hardware and support costs. Can Turbine generate enough cash from its shop to offset the drop in subscriptions PLUS the additional players? Remember that Lotro has no shards/instances. If there are 2000 people in the shire, the server locks up and the current design of the game has no way around it except to create an entire new server cluster. That costs a lot more money then just running another instance to handle whatever area is currently popular.
During the initial rush Turbine might have to add virtual worlds and then when the rush dies down, they might have to merge them again. Not good because any mention of a server merge is a sure sign to anyone that a MMO is dying.
Another problem is content. Lotro has got tons of it. In fact you could spend an awful lot of time just doing all the quests in the totally free zones, the starter areas. Later areas start costing money but just the quests in it. While Lotro is about questing, F2P gamers are used to grinding on mobs only and so could at least until Moria face an open world.
Questing as a group? Hard in a world where there will be lots of "oops, I haven't bought this area yet".
Personally, I don't know. Turbine has re-imagined Lotro before and it gave us the radiance grind and legendary items. Two additions I could have done without. Frankly, I liked the base game but with that now going totally solo I don't even really feel the need to roll another alt. Only class I haven't done yet is Champ and I feel that with the influx of F2P, that class will be over represented anyway.
But hey, good luck to Turbine with this. It will be intresting to see if a fully western EQ-Clone can make it as a F2P title. Personally I think it will make bree more then ever a place for "I can't find X, is the sucksors lol, give me cash". Poor RP players. They are going to have to hide in the deepest areas of Moria.
If you haven't noticed, more and more the writers on this forum (and sometimes the management itself) have been promoting and endorsing more alternate payment options in MMO's.
The future is crashing over us in waves, not much else to do but roll with it or get out of the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont actually play the PvE side of Lotoro at all.. But I constantly play Monster Play!
If I can just do monster play for free... then I am a most happy chappy indeedy! And F2P means more pvp'ers... woot.
The only negative I can think of is that its not going F2P until next year
Simply put, as a founder & lifer, I'm not in support of this move.
I think Turbine should open up a server for people like me and subbers to move to if we chose and keep things as they are now for that server. Then let the F2P mobs do their thing on the rest of the servers. That way everyone gets what they want.
too bad monster play if for VIP ONLY.
i for one wont be trying this game game the f2p option is more like an exstended trial rather than a f2p lotro game people are expecting.
http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
to get this out of the way immidiately:
In theory "F2P" is a good model that COULD be the future of the MMO market and it is a future that I would happily embrace if it weren't for a few sad things...
F2P games are never free... there's ALWAYS a cost involved...
Guild Wars (and GW2 for that matter) are not F2P... the core set and the expansions come at 50-60 bucks a pop once a year and you are pretty much forced to buy the expansions... that is 4 bucks a month... it might be cheaper than a subscription MMO but it is not free to play... it's rather a standard game with full online access and support at no additional cost... definitely still my favorite model apart from subs.
The biggest gripe I have with F2P nowadays is that, going in the companies and the press say "there's really a lot of content for an F2P game..." or "this game looks super amazing for an F2P game". Then if someone mentions that you are forced to buy item shop stuff to experience the end game content or certain parts of the game or ANY gameplay at all you will be shunned because, well, they need to make money somehow...
Let's just take a look at Allods. Allods does look amazing and there is a lot of content... FOR A F2P GAME! Only catch - it's not F2P.... if you want to play that game for real at high level you have to chuck tons of money at them for perfumes because that whole FOD business makes the game pretty much unplayable unless you use perfumes... So if you want to do PvP semi hardcore there IS a fixed cost... for a hardcore gamer (let's say 4h a day) that comes to about 20 or more bucks a month... suddenly the game is a on par with most subscription model MMOs and it HAS to be judged using the same standards... and if you compare it to WoW, LotRO or any other sub game it loses on a grand scale because it does not have the content that those games offer.
Allods is just a perfect example of what most F2P games are... Less content, Less support for pretty much the same money input if you want to play it for real every day... It might be a good model for casual players.... but please Mr. and Mrs. Casual, don't forget that there are also hardcore gamers (quite a lot of them actually) who don't enjoy paying per hour played... for hardcore gamers a subscription is kind of like a flat rate. pay a set amount of money and play as much as you want....
Compare it to cell phones if you will.... there's pre paid and there's contracts... if you phone and text a lot a contract aka flat rate might give you more benefits... if you just use your cell phone once a week you're probably better off with pre paid...
I am a hardcore gamer! I have no problem admitting it. I sometimes play 8 or more hours a day. (not neccesarily just MMOs though) I do fully accept the fact, that there are a lot of casual gamers who can't be online everyday. that's completely fine and you're all entitled to games that cater to that playstyle... but at the same time please don't forget that we hardcore gamers still exist, too... and we're not lowlife losers or have no real life... we just like playing games better than what other's might consider "normal"
back on topic.... If F2P is supposed to be the future, then why not use the same system that Blizzard and SoE are using in their item shops? Yeah I know EQ/EQII/WoW are not F2P but their item shop is exactly what item shops are supposed to be imho... you don't HAVE to buy anything.... but you can if you want to.... and a lot of people want to (evidenced by the spectral mount thingy in WoW and by SoE's and Blizzard's general success with those shops). There's nothing in those shops but cute/cool/funny stuff that will enrich your game experience without giving you an unfair advantage over others... which makes it so great... it's not mandatory to have the stuff... people in general are a lot more open to spending money on something if they don't feel obligated to do so or if they just feel it's worth their money.
Unless all those F2P companies understand that they will never bank the hardcore gamers and the F2P model will always remain the subscription model's weird little hunchbacked cousin...
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That list was poorly done and glossed over the true aspects.
One particular statement I had to disagree with was LotRO being one of the industry's leaders on timely updates. Amazing how such "knowledgable" people don't know nearly as much about MMOs as they should. Yes let's not give the credit to timely updates to Asheron's Call, which has been doing MONTHLY content updates for almost 11 YEARS now. That game never gets credit from anyone.
There is no such thing. In the end people will have to pay more to have the same experience than they have to now. It starts with the Character Slots. Turbine is lieing when they say that nothing changes for subscribers. VIPs have FIVE Character Slots per server (you have to pay extra for more), current subscribers like me have SEVEN!
That is one thing. The other thing is that Game Cards will go away. I also absolutely dislike the idea of having to pay extra for every piece of fracking content. Before it was 26 Euros for a gamecard every two months. Now I will have the need to pay for something constantly in my face! Plus it ruins the balance of the game. Before everybody had the same chance to get the same gear, etc. Now those with the deeper pockets get more. This totally ruins the immersion and it totally takes the fun out of it for me. And yes I know that Turbine has said that they wont put raid gear into the shops. I am not talking about raid gear however. I do not have any raid gear on my chars, because I usually dont do raids. But all the stuff that I do have, I have earned and fought for and that is rewarding. Now the feeling of reward is gone. Sorry, I just dont get any feeling of reward out of paying my hard earned cash to Turbine.
I can not understand how this is so hard to understand for some people that there are people like me. And there are plenty of us!
Let's play the guessing game then shall we? How many subscribers do you think DDO had towards the end? 10k, 50k, 100k? It sure as hell wasn't $1 worth of subs so let's at least try to be realistic.
10k subs x $9.99 = $99,900 x 500% = $499,500
50k subs x $9.99 = $499,500 x 500% = $2,497,500
100k subs x $9.99 = $999,000 x 500% = $4,995,000
Looking at the lowest possible numbers and the highest possible numbers we can see that a 500% increase is massive.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
If you have the Moria expansion already purchased, you'll have 7 characters when the new model hits. If you purchase the adventurer's pack, you'll have two more, for a total of 9.
If you stay as a subscription customer, you'll keep everything you have already, nothing will change for you.. in fact you'll gain two things that currently we don't have.
-A stipend of 500 turbine points per month to spend on the cash shop at no extra charge.
-New players to run with your lowbie alts that would otherwise struggle through low end content that requires groups (Great Barrows comes to mind as I can spend an hour or two putting together a fellowship for it).
This isn't really a FREE TO PLAY move, this is more of an EXTENDED TRIAL PERIOD thing.
When I started playing LOTRO, I did so on the 10 day trial. When the trial was over, I went out and bought the Moria expansion, which gave me another free month. When the month was over I nearly dropped the game because I did not want another subscription (commitment) as I already played another MMO with a subscription. Only reason I stayed was because I really liked the game, but for some time the anxiety didn't go away and a few times I nearly canceled my subscription.
This extended trial period would allow new players to ease their way into a subscription. First play for free to level 20, then go out to another location following the epic story line. Play there some, like it, and decide "Hey, I want some more quests here". Buy the quest hub. Do them all and go to the next hub via the epic line. Buy a few more hubs and then realize that it would be cheaper to just get a subscription, and since you've already invested some time and money into the game, it isn't that big of a leap.
Needless to say everybody is not you, nor will everybody have a similar experience...No Game is for everyone...
To counter your argument though I'll say this. My Best Friend and I have been playing LOTRO almost from Launch. When things really started to slow down in SWG at the beginning of last year I introduced 6 Guildies to LOTRO via the Free Trial...All 6 LOVED the Game from the start. Of the six, three are still playing LOTRO and have yet to quit. 2 more played for a full year, but could no longer afford it when they started playing STO. Both of them are coming back for sure when it goes F2P...The last guys Comp simply can't handle LOTRO...
Just saying...
That's not a bad idea at all. As a Lifer I would still stay on Brandywine. But I think the idea is sound and has merit.
Oh man...
I lol'd HARD at that...
It's like my ex-wife always tells me, "You played, now you pay!" It wouldn't be so bad if she didn't have her palm out and the 357 I bought her a fews back pointed at me, but this is a game and play if you want to, no one is holding a gun to your head. Granted, LotRo is a way better game than DDO by far and I would think that many DDO players would rather play LotRo instead of DDO for the quality upgrade, but to be fair that might just be enough to keep LotRo going for a while. I had 2 accounts, played beta but no factions and monster play is for the give me now crowd which leaves many mmorpg players wanting more from the game than is there. That is why I left, its good but not a robust mmorpg for me.
I'm leader of a small Brandywine Kin and the reaction is about the same with us. In fact I'd say the reaction was MUCH better than fine knowing we are going to get back at least 3 Guildies in the Fall when it goes F2P...Also, I know My Girlfriend and Her Son will be creating new Accounts. I think we all know at least one or two people who are going to try it out now...I'm actually REALLY excited...I guess we'll see about this time next year how it all turns out...
OK now I am mad. First off it does not mean were going to get more content. At least at end game. I am like why is evybody taking up for LOTRO. LOTRO started this sh**-storm buy deciding to screw over its existing player base. And we think its good because its going F2P.
Heck its not even FTP. Its more like you have a sub, or you buy turbine points and unlock stuff. What is free about that.
Why are we neglecting the fact that Lotro has been going downhill for a year. No content updates in the past 6 months, and now another 3-6 months before we have any more content delivered. And the 90% of that content will be amed at getting the new kids on the block.
I fail to see how any of this is even remotly good in any way. I am not the only one who thinks this way. The forums over at lotro have been heavly moderated. Hunred of post on the matter have been deleted and 20 or more have been closed and allowed to fall 5 and 10 pages behind.
What is so good about Turbine being a bunch of liars, and telling us for over a year they were not taking lotro F2P, then all the sudden do it.
Im like instead of cutting Turbine some slack why are you guys not looking at the real story instead of whats happening. It makes me sick to see so many folks be the tubine kiss up guy and go omg look how good you did something.
Im not exicted about this at all in the least bit, and neither are a lot of folks i did talk to in the allies channel.
Meh...
I'm not saying everyone is loving it whatsoever, but there is not a single person in My Kin who has a problem with it at all...It's a done deal anyway...What are you going to do? Turbine is fully aware some Folks will quit. People always quit. I wish no one would over this, but some will...And they know it...They're willing to take the risk to get more People playing the Game...Forums are never a clear judgement of the overall reaction. We all know that...Especially in a Casual Game like LOTRO...I've never posted on the LOTRO Forums outside of the Tech help. I don't know of a single Guildy who's Posted there either...So it's not necessarily a solid representation...Though again, I don't doubt some Folks are upset...
It sucks some Folks are so angry about this...I'm actually a bit surprised. I just don't see the downside to this at all...This is not the NGE...They're not changing the Game mechanics at all...If you already Sub, continue and it's the same Game...I just don't see what the big deal is. All the negative I read equates to some VERY wild and unfounded predictions...No one really knows whats going to happen...Why don't we wait and see?...
And btw...IF LOTRO has been going down hill for a year now...Which I don't feel is true at all...Maybe that is the exact reason they are going F2P...To spark the Game once again...I don't know...
See my avatar?? lol anyways, yay for F2P LOTRO!
this is funny. i swore i would never play this game again even it was free. now here it is testing my resolve. thankfully i saw nothing worth my time in this game at launch that a complete rewrite wouldnt fix, so i doubt the expansions and content added since included that said rewrite have added anything i will fall over and die if i miss.
on a side note, lets say i was new to lotro, with no history to cause me to view the game in bitter unfulfilled colored glasses, the level cap on a f2p model would make me not play. basically, an extended trial with an itemshop ala dungeon and dragons, another game that fails due to retarded limitations on free accounts. free means free with item shop to pay the bills. free does not mean free until we want you to pay. z