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Great Launch - Poor Introductory Gameplay For New Players
Southpaw.Gamer
Member CommonPosts: 572
Yes, the game has launched and with little issues, I give them props for getting performance fixed for the most part. However in saying that I still feel this game is lacking in content.... and ploppping a character into the world without giving any form of direction is beyond moronic. Before any of you start screaming sandbox and "no hand holding" hear me out, I don't want the game to hold my hand... but when a player first logs into the world should there not be some basic level quests for a player to complete to teach them the basics of gameplay?
As it is right now you log in and you wander around aimlessly, unless you're part of a clan that has played throughout Beta and knows what to do. SV better make the new player experience easier or they won't hold many new players.... I mean christ give them a map of the starting town and which NPCs do what at least. I logged in wih a buddy and we had no idea what to do or where to go.... then night-time came and we were forced to stay in town because it was so damned dark, which would be fine if we had any idea how to get or make a torch.
Things that need to change if MO is to retain new player:
- Some basic form of teaching players the basic commands, be it a pop-up window that shows up at the very start or an NPC that is standing at the load-in zone ready to give out basic quests such as explore the town using this "map" and talk to all the NPCs to verify you actually did so.
- I'd say give players a torch upon loading in so that night time is bearable for a new player unable to see
- Any sense of direction at all, without having to join a clan to get said direction.
---------------------------------------------
MO has the potential, but right now the only people with any idea as to what to do are those that actively played the Beta.
Full Sail University - Game Design
Comments
Yeah, I agree the newbie experience needs work. Even if it's just a torch.
Did you try hitting "H" though? there's a lot of useful stuff in there, the problem is the "hit "H" to see help" is kinda hard to see.
There is an "help" menu that popup by pressing H or accessible trough the ESC menu
Have to agree with the OP. Even most people that like to explore, would rather not explore the utter basics. And you can usually turn off tutorials if you like to.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
The beta players learned what to do by playing the game. They all started out the same way you are describing, which is a part of the core philosophy of the game.
I'd agree, a little more of a tutorial might be helpful for the new player, but really, much of what you're describing is the purpose of the game's design.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
The people who actively played the beta are people who wanted to dominate the game by suffering through the Beta, I find it hard to believe the core concept of the game revolves around stumbling around until you figure out what to do... I mean even in real life there are signs indicating where there is a bank... and what different services people provide. Making navigation easier will only help the game.
Full Sail University - Game Design
The "help" it provides is limmited to player actions you may wish to take, there is still the issue of not knowing where or what you can do.
First thing I did logging in was attack a weasel, turns out it was a pet and the guy called the gaurds on me. I thought IU was attacking a wild animal..
There NEEDS to be some basic forms of direction, some basic form of teaching people what you can and can't do.
Full Sail University - Game Design
The people who played beta are the same ones that wanted to play a game with a minimum of hand-holding - players that were attracted to a more "old school" style of play where you had to learn a lot of things about the world themselves. Where there's value in gaining knowledge, instead of having it given to you.
I agree, SV could improve some of the help menus to make it more friendly for the new player (I like your idea about a map of your starter town). But a lot of the hand-holding you're asking for goes against the concept of the game.
Is this a game that has a niche appeal? Yes, it is. Those who like that niche hope it stays that way.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Tutorials? Who need tutorials! Let's go back to the Nintendo days of insert cartridge and go! If you can't figure it out you shouldn't be playing!
Hey at least Nintendo games came with a manual.
Anywho...
There is nothing "hardcore" about not being user-friendly. One day people will realize this.
This is why I think that Mortal Online's "blank wall" approach to sandbox gaming is a very poor choice for MMO development. By forsaking the creation of an interesting world full of content, and instead relying entirely on player interaction for gameplay, new players really don't have much to go on.
The biggest misconception fans of MO seem to have is that "sandbox" means "no content". Completely wrong. Sandbox is about having greater control over the content, and having a wider range of ways to interact with and influence it compared to "theme park" games. By having no content at all, you're removing the interface between the player and the world, and therefore the player is deprived of any intuitive way of immersing themselves into the game.
That's my opinion anyway.
No one in this thread mentioned anything about being "hardcore", other than you.
In my opinion, this is an issue about the type of experience a player is looking for, and individual players accurately assessing their own desires. Things like names over people's heads, instant class recognition, exclamation points denoting quest givers, universal access to mini-maps and world maps, fast travel, and recipe books that show items with stats are all more "user-friendly". They also all run counter to the type of game experience this game is trying to provide.
Of course, not everyone will enjoy that, which is perfectly fine (as long as SV can remain financially viable with their target audience).
Plenty of good-quality, enjoyable MMOs exist with the above features, and they are enjoyable for what they provide. MO is really trying to provide a different experience. Many people do not enjoy that type of experience - I believe just about everyone recognizes that fact. MO is trying to cater to the smallish set of people that do enjoy it, though, because there are few games that offer it.
Indeed, SV can do a better job of illustrating how the framework and systems in the game work to the newer player. But, some of the game's systems and information should still need to be learned in-game. The discovery is a large part of the fun.
The game has launched now, so either SV has gauged their target audience well, and has provided a game that will entertain them, or not. It's a game - some people will enjoy it, some won't. The hyper-emotional, opinion-based threats of "they better make it fit my definition or else" are still as misguided as they have ever been.
If you like what the game offers, play it. If you don't, then don't. It's really that simple - and shouldn't ever be the cause of angst. No crusade to persecute the heretics required.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
This.
I agree that MO could use a tutorial or something to help new players start out.
But, I also feel that anyone could figure it out before to long with just a smidgen of patience. Whats the rush? It only takes a couple weeks to skill up in MO so its not like you have to hit the starting line with your treads burning. So the hardcore players will be topped out in 3-5 days, who cares, you'll get there soon enough. Take your time exploring the world and game systems.
Okay, I haven't logged in yet. I have an account, I just haven't logged in because I figure if I give it a few days.. It will be stable enough to play for an extended period of time. That said..
I agree with the OP. Though, I'm not understanding the people who are saying that 'It goes against the concept of the game". No. Sandbox doesn't mean that something is hard to do. Is the concept of this game to alienate new players? Now I'm not a businessman, but I would have to believe alienating your customers would not be a driving concept in my business plan.
I tried out Darkfall for giggles fairly recently. I was very pleased with their starter quests and tutorials. It gave me the opportunity to learn the crafting and combat basics before I was shoved off into a very harsh world. Once out of the starter town, those quests were few and far between.
There's also something else I'd like to run by you guys. Why doesn't my character have any basic knowledge of anything in the world already? Why wouldn't my character have knowledge of NPC vendors, shops, bank, and perhaps a small radius outside of town? Did my character get dropped off by a space ship? Did I use a time machine and go to the future/past? If my character is 30 years old, shouldn't it be obvious that he was intelligent enough to have survived this long? This would make it reasonable to have starter quests and a little basic information in the form of tutorials. Your characters should know certain things.. or he/she would have died a long time ago.
When I was playing in beta, the GUI was just ugly. I sure hope they do a lot of work on it, because it's horrible. First impressions only happen once.. so they better get workin.
Server stability
Game systems working properly
New player experience
That should be the order. Then they can follow it up with UI overhaul, performance upgrades, weather system and more content. Please leave theivery out of the game. It's bad enough that you have to call the guards, since they don't have eyes or ears of their own. The only game it worked in was UO and that's because it was 2D isometric and you could see theives coming.
But back to the point. Starter quests to get a new player some basic information and some basic tutorials would go a long way in keeping players. The first 15-20 hours of the game shouldn't be hell to learn. It's a game, remember that. I love sandbox games, but I beilieve that they need to evolve. Having a solid new player experience to break people into a harsher game environment would be a step in the right direction. If the game can't retain enough subscriptions, it wont matter how much you liked it. The servers will shut down and you'll be crying that it's all because of the carebear, ignoring that it may have simply been because you and the company were unwilling to comprimise ...because less people liked your game style than you originally thought.
Remember ET on the commodore 64... Dropped you into the world with a big wtf am I suppose to do
That game went well :P
I'm fairly certain the purpose of the game's design isn't to leave a person feeling clueless
Exactly this.
I'd like a market size comparison =P
the whole concept of mortal online is to not hold your hand and feed you along the way.
thats why its not noob freindly, thats why theres full loot , its all about risk vs reward.
you can access the help menu by pressing H, and talking to GM 's aswell, or asking players.
mortal online launch was very smooth, and its just going to get better from here on out.
Or you could put a very simple couple of tutorial missions in the game to help you get your bearings... which would be the smart thing to do.
It's not 'no content', it's the content is player interaction. Whether that be through economy, war or social. It's very simple and basically crafts a world with possibilities, but it's upto you, the players, to get the full potential from it.
The only content that should be in a sandbox, is a world, items, creatures and resources. Then let the players build the game. It is very different to a theme park game, but hey, it's why we have the beauty of choosing what we play.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I just don't understand the logic behind this. You shouldn't have to ask people how to use the basic functions of the game. That isn't noob un-friendlly, it's just bad design. Haven't you learned your lesson with Darkfall? That game is way more user friendly and the most generous rumor is that they are struggling to get 20k subscriptions. Plus, do you really think it's a proper and efficient use of the GM's time to be helping new players figure out how to do mundane tasks in their video game?
"Sorry to bother you, but I'm wondering.. how do I interact with NPC's?"
"Excuse me, how do I swing my sword?"
"Sorry for bothering you again, how do I harvest?"
"Where is the bank? There's no sign or indicator"
I can probably sit here and think of 100 more of these. Even in real life, we have the common knowledge of how to do things. We may not have specialized knowledge of detailed tasks, but we understand the basics of living. I learned some things as a baby, I was taught by schools and my parents. Since there are no schools and parents, starter quests and/or first time tutorials should take their place. This in NO way can hurt the game. It can only be a positive. None of the super hardcore sandboxers will quit the game because a little information was given to new players when they started. Yes there is a hints functions. Thing is, most people learn better through being shown.
By simply sitting here and claiming everyone should not have any idea of what they are doing until they figure it out by trial and error, you're commiting the same error that every hardcore sandbox game has made before this.
Sorry for the large print, but this really should be seen, if for no other reason than to give some guidance to new players.
At any point while in game, hit "H" to see the help menu.
This menu explains the fundamentals, and answers most the questions you posed Das. The fundamentals of the game ARE ALREADY EXPLAINED in the game. I understand that "hardcore" does NOT mean "user un-friendly", but you have to understand that things like floating icons over NPC's heads honestly goes against what we like. If you don't understand that, then fine, but at least understand that's as valid a preference as yours.
Again, every aspect of MO needs polish, including the new player experience. But the fundamentals are already there, and for a lot of us "too little guidance" REALLY IS preferable to "too much guidance".
I'm not sure you realize that there is a vast difference between noob friendliness and holding your hand through the game.
I want a noob friendly game that doesn't hold my hand. That means I want a game that will tell me what I need to know to survive and give me the tools to succeed but lets me choose what to do with that.
A game being designed to have new players ask a GM or other players for basic core gameplay mechanics is designed to fail. You can not rely on a community to help the new players along. You also can not rely on salaried employees to be answering the same questions all day long. A simple tutorial is whats needed. Basic things.
Also, many new players may not think to hit "H" for help. Its not intuitive as its not standard.
You people need to get this through your skulls. Hardcore and ruthless game doesn't have to be unfriendly to new players.
I played UO. I played many games that didn't tell me what to do. I am fully confident I can figure out MO without problems but to read this kind of nonsense is irritating. You can not expect success from this game if it doesn't provide basic help for new players to learn the core mechanics and vital need-to-know information.
If I'm not mistaken, there's a text message that appears when you first log in (every time) that says "Press "H" for help".
Though maybe it fades too quick? I'll bug report it, maybe that'll help.
I played the betas so obviously i'm ok now. But i began to play before the H' button was introduced, and imo there is enough information there.
But i found exploring and finding out how things worked really interested, with a real back to basics feel. I felt alone and like a new person in a open world. And I think this is the feeling SV want the players to have, it is a sandbox after all.
Interact with people, ask them how. Read the forums for advice. Why do you need a step bt step tutorial holding your hand.