We need some new evolution in this genre and we need it yesterday. I can't really judge SWTOR at this time obviously, but it's a shame they weren't a little more ambitious with such a major IP. I'm still gonna wait-and-see though, as I can't do much else.
When we get it the community's reaction is always negative, which is a bad thing for the developers.
You can't do everything and make the game innovative at the same time. And guess what people will be stuck on when the game is being discussed about? What it doesn't have.
That really tells nothing about the game itself, but it's understandable why companies don't want to take the risk when the community is what it is.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
For many fans SWTOR was not supposed to be just another fun but been-there-done-that MMO on the market - a WOW clone as some like to say. It is STAR WARS and many held high hopes to see more... unfortunately, it seems as it will be just like any other themepark MMO present in the market for the last 5 years but with VO quests. There is nothing special or unique that will set new standards in the MMO industry - and what better MMO to do that than SW MMO - and what better RPG developer than BioWare, too bad.
So, the point of the article is that SWTOR is not a bad game but taken it is the Star Wars IP, there is nothing to be over excited about.
From my point of view as a fan it is a waste... such a waste.
Using probably the greatest IP one could have in developing MMO and delivering nothing extraordinary to the least is a waste. It is a simple, already tested (WoW) and profitable forumla, a safe bet for BioWare indeed. Yet again...
That is fair to say, but it doesn't mean you are right or wrong. There isnat least 9 months left and a beta to work with before the game is launched. I have a feeling there is a lot not being talked about by BW because they do nit want to promise anything that they can't deliver on. So there may end up being much more than just WoW with a twist content. The start if 2011 may give us all a better view of the total game. Not just the familar WoW features with a twist we have now.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
i dont want World of Starwarscraft i WANT STAR WARS GALAXIES REDUX. why cant i have that? fix the flaws and enhance the positive aspects of swg and youll have the greatest game ever.
So, in short, don't get yourself super hyped about this game. It's not amazingly innovative or a complete genre changer. It's not re-inventing the wheel, but it is taking that wheel and giving it the gold plating it needs.
So judging by that sum up it did what WoW did for the genre. It didn't reinvent the genre it just cleaned up a lot of things/gave it gold plating. I have no problem with this because lets be honest no MMO tries to reinvent the genre its just too much of a risk. If they can take the good aspects and add another layer to them thats just fine by me. So I get all the things I love just a little better with a great story. SIGN ME UP
With any article like this you have to read a little between the lines. The exclusives and first looks are often given to magazines and sites that are going to portray the game in a favourable light. You say how a game is awful you might win the trust of your readers but your also going to be black listed for any future exclusive content.
So any article where a person is luke warm about a game you have to wonder why they aren't more impressed. After all I bet you could find plenty of people that would be just so happy to be trying out ToR that it could a reskined WoW and they would still tell you its the best thing in the world. And that they would sell their grandmother to get a copy of it.
So when you get an article and the reviewer isn't overly impressed then you have to think maybe they are telling it how it is and hang on this is ment to be the next big thing in MMO's. Why aren't they jumping up and down saying how great it is and all the amazing features. Maybe it doesn't offer much that is new or innovotive and will offer a very standard game.
i dont want World of Starwarscraft i WANT STAR WARS GALAXIES REDUX. why cant i have that? fix the flaws and enhance the positive aspects of swg and youll have the greatest game ever.
No thanks, I would pass on that. But I have always wanted a Bioware SPG to become a MMO. It looks like I will get that. So I am happy.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
With any article like this you have to read a little between the lines. The exclusives and first looks are often given to magazines and sites that are going to portray the game in a favourable light. You say how a game is awful you might win the trust of your readers but your also going to be black listed for any future exclusive content.
So any article where a person is luke warm about a game you have to wonder why they aren't more impressed. After all I bet you could find plenty of people that would be just so happy to be trying out ToR that it could a reskined WoW and they would still tell you its the best thing in the world. And that they would sell their grandmother to get a copy of it.
So when you get an article and the reviewer isn't overly impressed then you have to think maybe they are telling it how it is and hang on this is ment to be the next big thing in MMO's. Why aren't they jumping up and down saying how great it is and all the amazing features. Maybe it doesn't offer much that is new or innovotive and will offer a very standard game.
Using WoW as an example. Could anyone write an article about WoW's content and features after playing through the first 8 levels? No one at E3 had a character higher than level 8. So what do we really know yet about this game? That the UI plays like WoW. Open seamless play areas for your noob area? Not too much else is known about the features of the game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
why not take the crafting system, the character/class interaction, the sandbox style world, profession based leveling instead of classes, and the pvp from swg and use that as your base and improve on it from there. instead of using wow as your model.
why not take the crafting system, the character/class interaction, the sandbox style world, profession based leveling instead of classes, and the pvp from swg and use that as your base and improve on it from there. instead of using wow as your model.
Because this is a Bioware MMO based on KOTOR, a SPG that fits with WoW style better than open sandbox with no classes. It has been said though that there will be some sandbox elements in this game. That they are going with a hybrid game where groups quests make a difference in the War effort on both sides of the conflict on a planet. So there may end up being some sandbox play built into the system. You will be able to explore a planet just to explore. And be rewarded for the effort. You do not need to follow the story for content. They will put in content that you can just play with your friends. That was stated in one of the E3 interviews.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
why not take the crafting system, the character/class interaction, the sandbox style world, profession based leveling instead of classes, and the pvp from swg and use that as your base and improve on it from there. instead of using wow as your model.
SWG crafting sounds pretty good, from what I heard. Character/Class interaction sounded atrocious and sandbox worlds are not good for stories* which is Bioware's strength (and personally what I am looking for in an MMO). Seriously, who the heck wants to WASH DISHES in a Star Wars game? A small minority of Star Wars fans, I assure you, which is why SWG never had a huge following after initial release and was bleeding customers BEFORE the NGE patch.
Bioware is doing things pretty well from what I see. A proper story-based MMO where player decisions matter. Characters that are heroic from the get-go and get more heroic as time progresses. Good stuff. Hopefully the crafting system and end-game activities are also very good.
*Problem with player-created stories is that the fall apart if a person quits the game. Not going hard sandbox means that you can have greater continuity and plot arcs that make a lot more sense and aren't vulnerable to the fact the world is not real (and hence people quit and do other things they wouldn't do in reality). Also, they lack the strength and polish of well-written and integrated stories made by Devs.
why not take the crafting system, the character/class interaction, the sandbox style world, profession based leveling instead of classes, and the pvp from swg and use that as your base and improve on it from there. instead of using wow as your model.
Sound's good. Unfortunately (for you) that is not what Bioware is doing, or was ever planning on doing.
Did I miss a press release a few years ago or something from Bioware, or a post on theoldrepublic.com that said, "Hey everyone, we're totally not going to make the type of game that Bioware has always made and our fans love us for, we're going to try something completely different!"
I'm not sure why a lot of people here thought that ToR was going to be anything but a Bioware game with multiplayer added on.
I for one am looking forward to it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Kind of hard to compare this to star trek online seeing as how this IP (TOR) was created by BioWare.
That's not really correct. Dark Horse Comics published the first Old Republic era material with the Tales of the Jedi/Dark Lords of the Sith comic series back in the mid 90s (or was it early 90s? I forget). Bioware's original KOTOR single player game certainly added a lot to the SW EU, but they weren't the first to tell stories in that period.
Kind of hard to compare this to star trek online seeing as how this IP (TOR) was created by BioWare.
That's not really correct. Dark Horse Comics published the first Old Republic era material with the Tales of the Jedi/Dark Lords of the Sith comic series back in the mid 90s (or was it early 90s? I forget). Bioware's original KOTOR single player game certainly added a lot to the SW EU, but they weren't the first to tell stories in that period.
Didn't they say it was the period between the KOTOR stries and the movies? I thought I heard or read that it was an open period where not much has been written about. I could be wrong though.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
no i never thought it would be anything other than a bioware game. and i think its going to be great. im just saying that i hope they include some swg style elements as well as the tried and true wow template. either way i think its gonna rock
why not take the crafting system, the character/class interaction, the sandbox style world, profession based leveling instead of classes, and the pvp from swg and use that as your base and improve on it from there. instead of using wow as your model.
Because this is a Bioware MMO based on KOTOR, a SPG that fits with WoW style better than open sandbox with no classes. It has been said though that there will be some sandbox elements in this game. That they are going with a hybrid game where groups quests make a difference in the War effort on both sides of the conflict on a planet. So there may end up being some sandbox play built into the system. You will be able to explore a planet just to explore. And be rewarded for the effort. You do not need to follow the story for content. They will put in content that you can just play with your friends. That was stated in one of the E3 interviews.
So the author of the article is miffed cause TOR is an evolution and not a revolution? The road is littered with games with revolutionary features that just weren't fun for most people. Warhammer's RvR zones were fun for me but a lot of people hated them. Guild Wars' heavy instancing gets a lot of hate. SWG had sandbox elements but the rest of the game had issues.
All mainstream MMOs have evolved the game before them, not revolutionized the genre. Ultima evolved MUD gaming. EQ evolved 2d Ultima to 3d. WoW evolved ease-of-use, graphics, and quest variety from EQ. There were other games with more revolutionary features but they never made it mainstream. To be honest, it's cool to try out those games with revolutionary features, but I usually prefer the game with the heavy polish that has just evolved from another mainstream game.
So the author of the article is miffed cause TOR is an evolution and not a revolution? The road is littered with games with revolutionary features that just weren't fun for most people. Warhammer's RvR zones were fun for me but a lot of people hated them. Guild Wars' heavy instancing gets a lot of hate. SWG had sandbox elements but the rest of the game had issues.
All mainstream MMOs have evolved the game before them, not revolutionized the genre. Ultima evolved MUD gaming. EQ evolved 2d Ultima to 3d. WoW evolved ease-of-use, graphics, and quest variety from EQ. There were other games with more revolutionary features but they never made it mainstream. To be honest, it's cool to try out those games with revolutionary features, but I usually prefer the game with the heavy polish that has just evolved from another mainstream game.
Exactly what I was thinking. Give me a polished evolution over a a game that tries to be a revolution and ended up a mess for the most part.
So the author of the article is miffed cause TOR is an evolution and not a revolution? The road is littered with games with revolutionary features that just weren't fun for most people. Warhammer's RvR zones were fun for me but a lot of people hated them. Guild Wars' heavy instancing gets a lot of hate. SWG had sandbox elements but the rest of the game had issues.
All mainstream MMOs have evolved the game before them, not revolutionized the genre. Ultima evolved MUD gaming. EQ evolved 2d Ultima to 3d. WoW evolved ease-of-use, graphics, and quest variety from EQ. There were other games with more revolutionary features but they never made it mainstream. To be honest, it's cool to try out those games with revolutionary features, but I usually prefer the game with the heavy polish that has just evolved from another mainstream game.
Exactly what I was thinking. Give me a polished evolution over a a game that tries to be a revolution and ended up a mess for the most part.
And in the end the reviewer sounded like he actually had fun. Which is why I'm confused over the title of this thread. For the most part everything he said were positive impressions. He had criticisms here and there but he was having fun in a very cinematic game.
That's win to me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So the author of the article is miffed cause TOR is an evolution and not a revolution? The road is littered with games with revolutionary features that just weren't fun for most people. Warhammer's RvR zones were fun for me but a lot of people hated them. Guild Wars' heavy instancing gets a lot of hate. SWG had sandbox elements but the rest of the game had issues.
All mainstream MMOs have evolved the game before them, not revolutionized the genre. Ultima evolved MUD gaming. EQ evolved 2d Ultima to 3d. WoW evolved ease-of-use, graphics, and quest variety from EQ. There were other games with more revolutionary features but they never made it mainstream. To be honest, it's cool to try out those games with revolutionary features, but I usually prefer the game with the heavy polish that has just evolved from another mainstream game.
Exactly what I was thinking. Give me a polished evolution over a a game that tries to be a revolution and ended up a mess for the most part.
And in the end the reviewer sounded like he actually had fun. Which is why I'm confused over the title of this thread. For the most part everything he said were positive impressions. He had criticisms here and there but he was having fun in a very cinematic game.
That's win to me.
The title is like that because people seem to expect a revolution in the MMO genre. Doing something like that is far too much of a risk especially if you are looking for a massive subscriber base. Just give me a solid polished game at launch that does things a bit different with a great story and I am sold.
So the author of the article is miffed cause TOR is an evolution and not a revolution? The road is littered with games with revolutionary features that just weren't fun for most people. Warhammer's RvR zones were fun for me but a lot of people hated them. Guild Wars' heavy instancing gets a lot of hate. SWG had sandbox elements but the rest of the game had issues.
All mainstream MMOs have evolved the game before them, not revolutionized the genre. Ultima evolved MUD gaming. EQ evolved 2d Ultima to 3d. WoW evolved ease-of-use, graphics, and quest variety from EQ. There were other games with more revolutionary features but they never made it mainstream. To be honest, it's cool to try out those games with revolutionary features, but I usually prefer the game with the heavy polish that has just evolved from another mainstream game.
Ultima wasn't revolutionary at its time? Technically it would have have NwN that evolved muds, but thats here nor there.
You don't think EQ brought a whole lot to the table that UO didnt have? Even DAoC gave MMOs faction warfare, that game did pretty well in its time. EvE, for an indie company, that game is doing absolutley great imo. I wouldn't consider any of these game heavily polished, and/or a slight evolution of it predesessor...
I don't think its games with revolutionary features that are the problem. How many times have we seen games with the "wow clone" fall by the wayside? Wether that title is deserved or not, I don't know.
I don't consider heavy instancing revolutionary..
SWG had issues of course, the biggest being they took a chainsaw to it instead of a scalpel.
I also don't consider WARs biggest problems to be RvR.
Why would the author or anyone else for that matter be surprised that the game is being developed in the manner that it is? Of course it is going to be very similar to WoW (under a different IP of course) with a high amount of polish, interesting storylines, etc.
Revolutionary or groundbreaking would be nice but consider that EA, LA, Bioware plopped down $150 million to develop the product. Did anyone seriously think they were going to gamble that much money on new & unproven concepts? Smaller developers are the ones who will break the mold as far as bringing revolutionary concepts around since they are more willing to take the risks associated with them.
Well, as far as "not positive impressions" we have:
Oh, and I was a hot, Twi'lek male smuggler. You know it's awesome.
Combat was fun and exciting as I pushed shift to find cover spots
What makes me happy, however, is the automatic use of medipacks
I thought this feature was very cool, and it gave a seamless transition into the next quest phase. It's very much in the vein of Star Wars to use a device like this instead of hoofing it back to the quest-giver, and I really appreciated it.
However, just as I went to find my contact, three resistance fighters jumped me from behind various ship parts in the hangar. I quickly dived behind the nearest wall and begun using my cover to fire back at them. Now, finally, after all this time, I felt like I was in a Star Wars movie.
You know, this demo has given me a taste of the good and the bad of SWTOR so far, and I'm actually quite pleased with that.
Of course he does have his criticisms, the idea that the health and power bar felt like a roge in wow, the idea that he had animations of being shot in cover (which seems to me a bug that will get fixed) he didn't feel combat was revolutionary but why does it have to be, there are a lot of good systems out there that get the job done?
He didn't like that mobs were hanging around waiting to be killed though he did say that they were all given a reason to be where they were. This to me is sort of monumental. How many times have you passed a field with whatever mob was around and you wondered why they were there? giant spiders i a field but no idea where they came from and why they came there, etc.
and of course:
And, of course, when all of this comes together, as it did in the hangar bay instance, the game feels as it should -- like an epic movie. That's what I'm looking for here. While the epic movie experience didn't permeate the entire gameplay session, it popped up enough that I felt satisfied.
he had other criticisms but I just feel like the title of this thread sort of feels like unintentional yellow journalism.
or perhaps someone just seeing the glass half empty while others will look at it seeing that it is hafl full?
Well the article is there so people can be their own judge.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Eh, I can't really get too riled up about this. I am looking forward to TOR for what it is. I mean, Bioware even said themselves (in interviews and such) right from the beginning, that they would be taking the same approach as Blizzard did.
Please note that this does NOT necessarily mean that it will be a WoW clone.
What Blizzard did, and this is why they have been so successful is: They took a long hard look at all the MMO's currently on the market (at the time of making WoW, that is). They took note of the concepts that worked, and the concepts that didn't work. Then they basically cherry-picked the things and concepts that they thought would be best for their game, and made that.
WoW wasn't a revolution, it was evolution as well. At the beginning of WoW, there was NOTHING in that game that wasn't in other games as well. What they did, that allowed them to become such a success was to filter out the bad stuff and be left with 'distilled awesomeness'. Hell, I think they even called their game design philosophy something along those lines.
Bioware are taking the same approach. Does this mean that TOR will be a WoW clone? Not really, but a look at the current market has WoW as a shining beacon for what 'Works'. This doesn't mean they haven't looked at other games as well, or that they're copying WoW. Just that there are a lot of lessons to be learned -from- WoW.
I think that, just as WoW was instantly familiar to MMO players of other games, so will TOR be instantly familiar to MMO gamers - including WoW players. I also think that TOR will be its own beast and that it will have enough going for it to be more than 'WoW in space with lightsabers'.
Time will tell I guess, but I haven't quite given up yet.
Kind of hard to compare this to star trek online seeing as how this IP (TOR) was created by BioWare.
That's not really correct. Dark Horse Comics published the first Old Republic era material with the Tales of the Jedi/Dark Lords of the Sith comic series back in the mid 90s (or was it early 90s? I forget). Bioware's original KOTOR single player game certainly added a lot to the SW EU, but they weren't the first to tell stories in that period.
Didn't they say it was the period between the KOTOR stries and the movies? I thought I heard or read that it was an open period where not much has been written about. I could be wrong though.
Yes it was the period after said comics, though in all honesty I didn't read, nor know about the comics, but wookieepedia is a wonderful thing. Touche on that one crocko, you earn 12 e-cookies. My point was simply, they have their own creative freedom in an area where lore is scarce, thereby making their own stories that conform to their will for the IP in the time frame. Yes there will be restrictions, and they can compound those restrictions with very specific reasons lore wise, that we just can't see yet. Therefore it could explain such things as particular races choosing sides, and certain classes working for particular factions.
Comments
When we get it the community's reaction is always negative, which is a bad thing for the developers.
You can't do everything and make the game innovative at the same time. And guess what people will be stuck on when the game is being discussed about? What it doesn't have.
That really tells nothing about the game itself, but it's understandable why companies don't want to take the risk when the community is what it is.
I disagree.
For many fans SWTOR was not supposed to be just another fun but been-there-done-that MMO on the market - a WOW clone as some like to say. It is STAR WARS and many held high hopes to see more... unfortunately, it seems as it will be just like any other themepark MMO present in the market for the last 5 years but with VO quests. There is nothing special or unique that will set new standards in the MMO industry - and what better MMO to do that than SW MMO - and what better RPG developer than BioWare, too bad.
So, the point of the article is that SWTOR is not a bad game but taken it is the Star Wars IP, there is nothing to be over excited about.
From my point of view as a fan it is a waste... such a waste.
Using probably the greatest IP one could have in developing MMO and delivering nothing extraordinary to the least is a waste. It is a simple, already tested (WoW) and profitable forumla, a safe bet for BioWare indeed. Yet again...
That is fair to say, but it doesn't mean you are right or wrong. There isnat least 9 months left and a beta to work with before the game is launched. I have a feeling there is a lot not being talked about by BW because they do nit want to promise anything that they can't deliver on. So there may end up being much more than just WoW with a twist content. The start if 2011 may give us all a better view of the total game. Not just the familar WoW features with a twist we have now.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
i dont want World of Starwarscraft i WANT STAR WARS GALAXIES REDUX. why cant i have that? fix the flaws and enhance the positive aspects of swg and youll have the greatest game ever.
So how many people who actually read the article believe this to be an acurate thread title?
I don't.
So judging by that sum up it did what WoW did for the genre. It didn't reinvent the genre it just cleaned up a lot of things/gave it gold plating. I have no problem with this because lets be honest no MMO tries to reinvent the genre its just too much of a risk. If they can take the good aspects and add another layer to them thats just fine by me. So I get all the things I love just a little better with a great story. SIGN ME UP
With any article like this you have to read a little between the lines. The exclusives and first looks are often given to magazines and sites that are going to portray the game in a favourable light. You say how a game is awful you might win the trust of your readers but your also going to be black listed for any future exclusive content.
So any article where a person is luke warm about a game you have to wonder why they aren't more impressed. After all I bet you could find plenty of people that would be just so happy to be trying out ToR that it could a reskined WoW and they would still tell you its the best thing in the world. And that they would sell their grandmother to get a copy of it.
So when you get an article and the reviewer isn't overly impressed then you have to think maybe they are telling it how it is and hang on this is ment to be the next big thing in MMO's. Why aren't they jumping up and down saying how great it is and all the amazing features. Maybe it doesn't offer much that is new or innovotive and will offer a very standard game.
No thanks, I would pass on that. But I have always wanted a Bioware SPG to become a MMO. It looks like I will get that. So I am happy.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Using WoW as an example. Could anyone write an article about WoW's content and features after playing through the first 8 levels? No one at E3 had a character higher than level 8. So what do we really know yet about this game? That the UI plays like WoW. Open seamless play areas for your noob area? Not too much else is known about the features of the game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
why not take the crafting system, the character/class interaction, the sandbox style world, profession based leveling instead of classes, and the pvp from swg and use that as your base and improve on it from there. instead of using wow as your model.
Because this is a Bioware MMO based on KOTOR, a SPG that fits with WoW style better than open sandbox with no classes. It has been said though that there will be some sandbox elements in this game. That they are going with a hybrid game where groups quests make a difference in the War effort on both sides of the conflict on a planet. So there may end up being some sandbox play built into the system. You will be able to explore a planet just to explore. And be rewarded for the effort. You do not need to follow the story for content. They will put in content that you can just play with your friends. That was stated in one of the E3 interviews.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
SWG crafting sounds pretty good, from what I heard. Character/Class interaction sounded atrocious and sandbox worlds are not good for stories* which is Bioware's strength (and personally what I am looking for in an MMO). Seriously, who the heck wants to WASH DISHES in a Star Wars game? A small minority of Star Wars fans, I assure you, which is why SWG never had a huge following after initial release and was bleeding customers BEFORE the NGE patch.
Bioware is doing things pretty well from what I see. A proper story-based MMO where player decisions matter. Characters that are heroic from the get-go and get more heroic as time progresses. Good stuff. Hopefully the crafting system and end-game activities are also very good.
*Problem with player-created stories is that the fall apart if a person quits the game. Not going hard sandbox means that you can have greater continuity and plot arcs that make a lot more sense and aren't vulnerable to the fact the world is not real (and hence people quit and do other things they wouldn't do in reality). Also, they lack the strength and polish of well-written and integrated stories made by Devs.
Did I miss a press release a few years ago or something from Bioware, or a post on theoldrepublic.com that said, "Hey everyone, we're totally not going to make the type of game that Bioware has always made and our fans love us for, we're going to try something completely different!"
I'm not sure why a lot of people here thought that ToR was going to be anything but a Bioware game with multiplayer added on.
I for one am looking forward to it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
That's not really correct. Dark Horse Comics published the first Old Republic era material with the Tales of the Jedi/Dark Lords of the Sith comic series back in the mid 90s (or was it early 90s? I forget). Bioware's original KOTOR single player game certainly added a lot to the SW EU, but they weren't the first to tell stories in that period.
Kind of hard to compare this to star trek online seeing as how this IP (TOR) was created by BioWare.
That's not really correct. Dark Horse Comics published the first Old Republic era material with the Tales of the Jedi/Dark Lords of the Sith comic series back in the mid 90s (or was it early 90s? I forget). Bioware's original KOTOR single player game certainly added a lot to the SW EU, but they weren't the first to tell stories in that period.
Didn't they say it was the period between the KOTOR stries and the movies? I thought I heard or read that it was an open period where not much has been written about. I could be wrong though.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
no i never thought it would be anything other than a bioware game. and i think its going to be great. im just saying that i hope they include some swg style elements as well as the tried and true wow template. either way i think its gonna rock
thats good to know
So the author of the article is miffed cause TOR is an evolution and not a revolution? The road is littered with games with revolutionary features that just weren't fun for most people. Warhammer's RvR zones were fun for me but a lot of people hated them. Guild Wars' heavy instancing gets a lot of hate. SWG had sandbox elements but the rest of the game had issues.
All mainstream MMOs have evolved the game before them, not revolutionized the genre. Ultima evolved MUD gaming. EQ evolved 2d Ultima to 3d. WoW evolved ease-of-use, graphics, and quest variety from EQ. There were other games with more revolutionary features but they never made it mainstream. To be honest, it's cool to try out those games with revolutionary features, but I usually prefer the game with the heavy polish that has just evolved from another mainstream game.
Exactly what I was thinking. Give me a polished evolution over a a game that tries to be a revolution and ended up a mess for the most part.
And in the end the reviewer sounded like he actually had fun. Which is why I'm confused over the title of this thread. For the most part everything he said were positive impressions. He had criticisms here and there but he was having fun in a very cinematic game.
That's win to me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The title is like that because people seem to expect a revolution in the MMO genre. Doing something like that is far too much of a risk especially if you are looking for a massive subscriber base. Just give me a solid polished game at launch that does things a bit different with a great story and I am sold.
Ultima wasn't revolutionary at its time? Technically it would have have NwN that evolved muds, but thats here nor there.
You don't think EQ brought a whole lot to the table that UO didnt have? Even DAoC gave MMOs faction warfare, that game did pretty well in its time. EvE, for an indie company, that game is doing absolutley great imo. I wouldn't consider any of these game heavily polished, and/or a slight evolution of it predesessor...
I don't think its games with revolutionary features that are the problem. How many times have we seen games with the "wow clone" fall by the wayside? Wether that title is deserved or not, I don't know.
I don't consider heavy instancing revolutionary..
SWG had issues of course, the biggest being they took a chainsaw to it instead of a scalpel.
I also don't consider WARs biggest problems to be RvR.
My opinions only of course.
Why would the author or anyone else for that matter be surprised that the game is being developed in the manner that it is? Of course it is going to be very similar to WoW (under a different IP of course) with a high amount of polish, interesting storylines, etc.
Revolutionary or groundbreaking would be nice but consider that EA, LA, Bioware plopped down $150 million to develop the product. Did anyone seriously think they were going to gamble that much money on new & unproven concepts? Smaller developers are the ones who will break the mold as far as bringing revolutionary concepts around since they are more willing to take the risks associated with them.
Well, as far as "not positive impressions" we have:
Oh, and I was a hot, Twi'lek male smuggler. You know it's awesome.
Combat was fun and exciting as I pushed shift to find cover spots
What makes me happy, however, is the automatic use of medipacks
I thought this feature was very cool, and it gave a seamless transition into the next quest phase. It's very much in the vein of Star Wars to use a device like this instead of hoofing it back to the quest-giver, and I really appreciated it.
However, just as I went to find my contact, three resistance fighters jumped me from behind various ship parts in the hangar. I quickly dived behind the nearest wall and begun using my cover to fire back at them. Now, finally, after all this time, I felt like I was in a Star Wars movie.
You know, this demo has given me a taste of the good and the bad of SWTOR so far, and I'm actually quite pleased with that.
Of course he does have his criticisms, the idea that the health and power bar felt like a roge in wow, the idea that he had animations of being shot in cover (which seems to me a bug that will get fixed) he didn't feel combat was revolutionary but why does it have to be, there are a lot of good systems out there that get the job done?
He didn't like that mobs were hanging around waiting to be killed though he did say that they were all given a reason to be where they were. This to me is sort of monumental. How many times have you passed a field with whatever mob was around and you wondered why they were there? giant spiders i a field but no idea where they came from and why they came there, etc.
and of course:
And, of course, when all of this comes together, as it did in the hangar bay instance, the game feels as it should -- like an epic movie. That's what I'm looking for here. While the epic movie experience didn't permeate the entire gameplay session, it popped up enough that I felt satisfied.
he had other criticisms but I just feel like the title of this thread sort of feels like unintentional yellow journalism.
or perhaps someone just seeing the glass half empty while others will look at it seeing that it is hafl full?
Well the article is there so people can be their own judge.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Eh, I can't really get too riled up about this. I am looking forward to TOR for what it is. I mean, Bioware even said themselves (in interviews and such) right from the beginning, that they would be taking the same approach as Blizzard did.
Please note that this does NOT necessarily mean that it will be a WoW clone.
What Blizzard did, and this is why they have been so successful is: They took a long hard look at all the MMO's currently on the market (at the time of making WoW, that is). They took note of the concepts that worked, and the concepts that didn't work. Then they basically cherry-picked the things and concepts that they thought would be best for their game, and made that.
WoW wasn't a revolution, it was evolution as well. At the beginning of WoW, there was NOTHING in that game that wasn't in other games as well. What they did, that allowed them to become such a success was to filter out the bad stuff and be left with 'distilled awesomeness'. Hell, I think they even called their game design philosophy something along those lines.
Bioware are taking the same approach. Does this mean that TOR will be a WoW clone? Not really, but a look at the current market has WoW as a shining beacon for what 'Works'. This doesn't mean they haven't looked at other games as well, or that they're copying WoW. Just that there are a lot of lessons to be learned -from- WoW.
I think that, just as WoW was instantly familiar to MMO players of other games, so will TOR be instantly familiar to MMO gamers - including WoW players. I also think that TOR will be its own beast and that it will have enough going for it to be more than 'WoW in space with lightsabers'.
Time will tell I guess, but I haven't quite given up yet.
http://machineborn.guildportal.com - Now recruiting players!
Yes it was the period after said comics, though in all honesty I didn't read, nor know about the comics, but wookieepedia is a wonderful thing. Touche on that one crocko, you earn 12 e-cookies. My point was simply, they have their own creative freedom in an area where lore is scarce, thereby making their own stories that conform to their will for the IP in the time frame. Yes there will be restrictions, and they can compound those restrictions with very specific reasons lore wise, that we just can't see yet. Therefore it could explain such things as particular races choosing sides, and certain classes working for particular factions.