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How would you improve PVE in Eve without turning the game pve focused?
Rockgod99
Member Posts: 4,640
People say Eve's pve is lacking.
While I enjoy the pve others want something a bit less repetitive with more options.
Currently we have Mission agents that give out a variety of random missions to the player. These missions give Standing for Empire/FW and Pirate factions. We also have scannable Pve deadspace throught the on board scanner and probing system.
We have Ratting and Sleeper sites within wormholes.
To me this sounds good but I am well aware that others find Eve's pve a bit shallow.
So im asking what would you add/fix with Eve's pve?
How would you add these features without shifting the overall games balance away from pvp?
As an example I believe a Fleet pve (raid) focused progression would basically destory what Eve is.
So what would you add?
Comments
Here is an idea, but it lacks a motivation as to actually doing it, i will explain about that afterwards.
Imagine if Player owned corporations could make their own deadspace complexes, if your really think of it eve deadspace isn't that complex, and a browser for creating one wouldn't be that hard, you would have to design pockets with pirates (or NPC ships from your corp) with trigers and objectives for each complex. Imagine making your own missions.
The problem is, why would you do this? you could challenge other corporations to beat your missions, but that makes no sence, unless there was a prize at the end. Assuming that the NPC ships costed ISK to make then why would you want someone blowing up your prizes.
Now imagine with me for a minute, what if you could incorporate this into PvP? think of it this way, in a corp you have a fleet of PvP-ers and a fleet of PvE-ers, the ONLY way to get into your enemys base of operations would be to fight through a deadspace complex, the jump gate would be at the end.
To keep things balanced, the solar system at the end would be short on resources with very few exploration choices. The only think it would be good for is having a POS to keep safe, like a manufacturing bay that only your most elite and trusted corp members had access too.
But this all has to do with PvP and PvE combination, and of course all the PvP-ers would simply fit their ships for ratting and do it themselfs, leaving the hardcore PvE-ers out of it. but i can't think of any motivation to have this as only a PvE tool. (creation of deadspace pockets that is)
Ratting/missioning:
Divide the number of rats by approximately 12-20
Make each rat 12-20 times more effective (ie: vaguely realistic fits) and much, much smarter (at least as smart as sleepers).
Killing a pirate battleship should be a significant achievement for a solo PC. I would also end the bigger=better more dps=more ISK/hr equation for rats and ratting. Missions should call for a wide variety of ships, everything from bombers to battleships. Players could register with agents and the agents should be able to analyse the ships they can fly. Finish a mission for an agent, and you get an email offering you another one. Convo the agent to accept or refuse (none of this retarded docking up). Agent missions should send you all over the cluster, not be based around a couple of nearby systems.
Belt rats should be significantly more cunning, rarer and they should occasionally drop log books with the co-ordinates of plexes.
Rats should try and escape once they start losing a fight; tackling gear would be mandatory. They should also use various types of ammunition and fit realistic tanks. Ending the false and damaging distinction between PvE and PvP fits is an urgent priority.
Mining:
Belts should be much much larger - thousands of kilometers long. Only a small fraction of asteroids should have all that much ore - finding a good asteroid should be as good as finding a good plex, requiring the use of asteroid scanners, plus some actual player intelligence. The asteroids themselves should not have the ore evenly distributed. Focusing the scanner should reveal pockets of higher-concentration ore, on which the miner can focus his beams. Multiple pockets mean that getting the optimal yield will mean solving a 3-dimenstional puzzle so that the miner's beams pass through as many hi-density pockets as possible, and adjusting the solution in real time as the pockets are mined out (if anyone can make a macro for something like this, then good luck to them, they deserve the ISK). This would mean that active, skillful players could mine up to 4 or 5 times as much as the AFKers and macros.
Drone rat loot:
Time to get rid of "mining with guns" for the love of god. It was an interesting idea when it was introduced, but now it has to go. I'm not sure what should replace it, but it must change.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Until Incarna is in game, PvE will remain somewhat lackluster due to the fact that everything revolves around ships. Let's face it, there is not a whole lot one can do with a ship itself - it doesn't have an opposable thumb.
It would work if CCP turned it into a profession with skill progression.
Like an architect. The player would train a few skills to have the ability to design deadspace pockets, with a variety of NPCs with a variety of damage types and defenses, rule sets, the player could set triggers, dialog.
Then the creator would load up the deadspace pocket to a Empire or pirate faction agent. And depending on the difficulty, and completity of the pocket the player will be paid in isk and given creator standing for rewards like BPCs, modules and implants.
Do that and you would have unlimited pve content and overtime other gameplay features would come into play and maybe the ability to place a complex in a specific system for some type of pve/pvp hybrid system.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This. I would play EVE if all of your suggestions were added.
In my private dreams, CCP basically rip off System Shock, change a few names and stuff, fancy up the graphics and MMOify it in to EVE
(Then comes the part where I'm at school again and it's the first day and I'm only wearing socks and an umbrella. That part is not as good
)
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Dude that would make mining so much better.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Got this cuttlefish here that wants to have word with you...
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Yes it's an idea that I'm rather pleased with.
:preen:
Not that I've mined this last year or so. We should ask Teela what she thinks of it?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I could work with it. Sounds like a fun challenge.
Back in the old days, a person used to be able to raid NPC convoys. And if I may say so, make some damn decent isk doing it to. I'd like to see that back in game. If I remember correctly, I'd could easily make more isk than a level 3 mission runner.
Ive heard that the higher tier Sleepers are pretty tuff A.I. wise. Wouldnt mind seeing that codeing working its way down in to k-space rats and missions.
I'd also like to be able to activly run missions in opposing faction space. (Hell maybe we can, just got back into playing after 4 years away.) But I was thinking something along the lines of entering Gallente space and running covert missions for the Caldari. Not faction warfare mind you, but PvE missions vs the Gallente. Maybe hitting NPC convoys as an example.
I can think of alot of examples of player privateering vs faction NPC's and how that would be fun.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
I would add some sort of NPC attack from outside Concord, perhaps have the Jovians (or even aliens) routinely (and randomly) show up to disrupt everything from mining and mission running ops to large scale fleet battles where they could turn the side of the battle, or destroy everyone on the field if the two sides didn't suddenly settle their differences and fight off their attackers.
They could even jump in and station camp in a system trapping folks in the station until someone came to rescue them.
It would take some serious work of course, but I'd prefer a bit more unpredictability on the PVE and PVP side.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
This would be abused to no end. Give me a deadspace site with 1000 faction battleships that spawn one a time at the same spot so I can sit there and farm billions in bounties and mods.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I know!!! Half the cool shit people think of would be worthless in Eve because we always find away to exploit shit for personal gain.
Oh well.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't mind if they took out PVE all together like it used to be. There are too many people doing it anyway.
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iv never played eve.. only what iv read/seen (cant even start the trial atm).
What iv noticed is the lack of "deadspace" part. Im not talking about non pvp missions and player bases.
Hows anomalies like nebulas, black holes, pulsas, red giants etc?
Do planets and black holes have gravitational pull, do nebulas affect ships - or even going too close to a sun (+ adding a nice realistic sun effect if it already doesent have one).
Is it there -if not it should be.
It wotn affect only pve but also pvp. When flying into asteroid belt to kill a mining ship, you must be careful not to get hit by randomly flying asteroids. Bigger ships cant follow in at all - Huge fields.
Or flying too close to giant planet wont let ya to move as freely as if u were in plain space.
Can hide in nebulas, or get destroyed - or even recharged.
Black holes - some visible due to matter around them but also plenty of black death if u get too close.
Add some space lifeforms - not something you can farm ( organic, besides some organic matter there aint anythign else) - so if u wander into a emptier region u might randomly encounter different life, some hostile some not.
Wormholes - can they be used right now? (if yes, then also make those randomly different - one end might be randomly changing its position in space - or might collapse alltogether if u go inside).
Make it possible to find life on planets.... if ya find a good one ( and sell specimen or research for some new bonus to ur drone - like something to modify its intelligence through genetic engineering - but randomize so there wouldnt be no farmign spots).
There is soo much to do to enrich the game world whic would also have impact on pvp, makign more options available, adding new risks etc.
Why not if you too kheavy dmg and go to warp, u might end up with cpu failure and fly into a asteroid, planet star etc.
There is soo much that can be done with medium/minimal effort.
Wormholes work in EVE pretty much as you describe.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I actually just discovered recently that some wormhole areas have both sometimes positive and negative affects because of space anomalies in the area. Wormholes work exactly as you described. I have recently been scanning them down with a friend and exploring and doing a few easier sleeper sites. Once, upon exiting a wormhole, it collapsed behind us. If that happens, you ahve to scan new wormholes. They can collapse while you're inside, leaving you stranded until you scan down another wormhole.
Also, while you don't find life on planets, you can colonize planets with Planetary Interaction that was just added. You colonize them, scan where the best resources are, place factories, etc.. set up trade links between them or some such, and then actually launch the goods to you.
IMO the ONLY thing that needs to be done in EVE to improve PVE is to remove the PVP related restrictions.
I'll give examples:
All level 5 mission agents are in lowsec space. That means you have to risk getting gatecamped, scanned down while your missioning, etc etc etc.
Ssolution: move level 5 agents into hisec.
All 5+ DED Complexes are *gasp* in lowsec or even worse, nosec.
Solution: Make them spawn in both lowsec/nosec AND hisec, but at a higher rate in lowsec/nosec than in hi. That way, its still more lucrative to risk going into lowsec, but you're not prohibited from accessing the content.
WH Sleeper sites, are in wormholes, the lucrative ones are in class 4+ WH's which are again, *gasp* only in lowsec/nosec. Even for the Class 3 and below WH's, you are still under risk of getting scanned down and hosed while you're running the site, which given how hard core sleepers are already, is pretty retarded.
Solution: Create hisec exit WH's in all but class 6's, or maybe 5's and 6's. Also, give sleepers bounties, rather than REQUIRING you loot them.
I've seen too many times a fleet rushed in and either hosed or scared off the site runners close to when they were finished, basically getting free money just by virtue of being a bully gang. There is no risk reward in flying around with 10 of your buddies and preying on solo or duo mission/site runners or ratters, etc.
I understand the fact that CCP wants to promote the idea of risk vs reward, but what they've essentially done to PVE'ers is made it so that you can't do 1/5th the isk/hr as some of the options in nosec/lowsec.
The other thing that needs to go is gate camping. Period. IMO it should only be allowed in nosec, since then you can justify it as defending your territory. Gate camping lowsec is literally an iwin button, there is no risk vs reward, its simply a tool to get off the ganker/griefer crowd.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
reinforce gates with npc controlled turrets and scanners (any ship using weapons/ going hostlile gets a suprise) - since the original gate owners must protect the gates from damage - what if i miss and shoot the gate...
Some powerful turrets/scanners ( + a tractor beam if it works on ships - giving the attacker the option to be destroyed or get stripped of modules) should do it.
Honestly why should the players that are unwilling to take some risks and use some preparation and planning get the same level of income from PVE as the players who are willing? I have never been one of the typical "Move level 4s out of highsec" guys but even so I think high sec is profitable enough and getting high sec access to low and nullsec rewards would be wrong and would seriously risk making lowsec worthless.
It may surprise you or you may not believe me but many people do run level 4 missions in low sec and they do make more ISK than you can by doing them in highsec, how do they do it? by using the right ships or by their corp and allies locking down an area and working together and sharing intel on possible threats and working together to deal with those threats. This also applies to level 5 missions and players either go with a friend or two and blitz them or solo them in a Carrier and you can make up to 80,000 loyalty points in less than twenty minutes.
Why should a player in highsec who doesn't want to take risks or bother with teamwork or learn how protect himself make the same income? I can understand the perspective of casual players but many corps will recruit members who only login a couple of times a week but the whole point is not to be a leech and expect all the benefits of cooperation without giving anything back IE loging in and farming away in ecstasy and never helping out, players can be casual but contribute as well.
Also claiming there is no risk running around ganking people doing PVE is crap, by being in low/nullsec they are taking all the same risk of being blobbed, gate or station camped or landing in a gatecamp but guess what? they accept that risk and again use both preparation and teamwork to minimise it.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I have a hard time with some of the suggestions, because EVE is a PvP game - short of sitting in a station while spinning your ship and talking to friends; EVE is a PvP game.
I would not introduce any PvE elements that reduce the PvP elements; and some of the suggestions are just that.
Some suggestions are odd - stating that EVE's "PvE" is repetitive, let's make it easier but just as repetitive if not more?
How do you improve PvE? You make it harder. Improve the fuzzy logic and throw in some more RNG for the NPC AI. Make it a challenge. How many folks run L4's while half asleep, eating, watching TV, streaming porn, or whatever - cause there is not a chance in Hell that they are going to break your tank? Yes, they have "harder" encounters out there - but that could get into not enough of a non-repetitive challenge for many people.
You could also have "invasion" type events, where those pesky folks we've been slaughtering for years decide to attack - this could happen in any sec of space.
PvE is the player versus the environment. Incarna will add to RP, but not PvE.
Any actual improvement to PvE would likely upset those that PvE... so these discussions are always interesting to me to read.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
On foot detective/spy missions within stations.
Go look at a few fanfest videos of incarna.
there's your addition to Pve.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This one from 2009?
As opposed to the presentation from 2008?
Good luck with that...in all seriousness, the training of physical skills - the addition of physical attributes - etc... it being anything more than the RP thing from 2008.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%