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MMORPG.COM News: Mourning Removed
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If you really want to get technical about it, why should Mourning have to explain their reasons for removing you from beta? Apparently they felt it was the right decision, provided you with an invite at their expense and, I'm guessing, no extra cost to you. So, why all the anger directed at them? There must be something else to it?
Ah right, we're consumers who feel we deserve something for our time. Sure, MMORPG.com can nuke a forum without giving us a reason other than they felt it was right til they're blue in the face. Hopefully they won't expect us to stick around.
Suppose this was oh...MU Online simply because I have no idea about it and can't use info based off of it to support the point. If you and I were to play it and suddenly MMORPG.com nuked it simply because the development team made a few staff members cry, or even worse, didn't tell us at all, I'm sure we'd, or at least I, would be up in arms wondering what the bajeebus just happened.
Solution, ban the freakin mods. They don't need to be here. Give me my forum back, give me news on the game.
To remove a splinter you don't cut off the foot.
lmao. Guess what guys- go to mourning boards and try to type in that link- the site is banned from being shown on the mourning board! It shows up as ***********. So much for free speech.
*Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author... got sick of holding backspace.
-----------------------------------------
ParaTrooper, That guy that used to mod the MMORPG.com forums.
I decided i would start harrasing that game's leaders as to what transpired that caused them to have gotten a bad rep to be wary of a product i havent bought yet or really dealing w/those accused as being jerks, unless both stories matched up but w/different opinions i wouldn't trust anyone but myself and would continue to be registered at both places, HOWEVER i would be wary of the product and/or its makers seeing as MMORPG.com has nothing to gain BUSINESS WISE by banning it(the game's press) and if you think they(mmorpg.com) wouldn't stuff their own personal feelings to make a buck you probably need to seek medical attention.
Both the words: Scam and SomethingAwful.com have been blocked from the site! Nice.....................
If MMORPG.com is dependant on personal notification from game devs for relating their news, "pressing the ignore buffon" would (as you say) obviously mean no more Mourning news for MMORPG.com's subscribers. That would be unfortunate but in this case acceptable where press ethics are conserned (as far as I can see anyway). It would also be very much preferable to the current situation. A sound public reason to why this is done would be needed, however. I can't see why this would be percieved as a problem by you though..?
An alternate solution could be to rely on other sources than game devs for news.
I get this email from MMORPG.com called "MMORPG newsletter" (unless my memory fails me completly, which it may mind you). This email contains a link to a portion of the MMORPG.com site which contains a collection of MMORPG news. News being short formatted information which the media relator (MMORPG.com) assumes the majority of us don't already know when reading it at their site for the first time. There is no doubth MMORPG.com is a news media. What they choose to call or proclaim themselves are irrelevant in this matter. They are a news media to anyone who subscribes to the mentioned email or who drops by the news portion of their site.
Also, I bet I'm not the only one relying solely on MMORPG.com for my MMORPG news flash (because it's fast, easy and accessable). That lends them considerable media power indeed. You yourself suggested they may hold some sway over aproxomately 1/4 of Mournings registered potential customers. This would make MMORPG.com the biggest media influence over Mourning in the world..! Are you then suggesting they don't have any responsability in this regard? Perhaps because they (or you) don't define their news as news, but as information?
While I agree that they don't have an obligation, as such, to list every game out there, I do belive they have an interest in doing their best to make that happen. But that's beside the point, because what you are suggesting is that because they don't have an obligation to list every game out there, they can do what they pretty well please about the games they do cover. That is a bad assumption to make. When choosing to cover a game, they do create obligations towards their conduct. Even though many of us may be sympathetic towards MMORPG.com for being mistreated (even if severely) by Mourning staff, that does not remove such obligations. (espessially when they are as severe an influence as seems to be the case here according to your own interpetation of the infameous poll.)
However, what is most important is their interest in keeping the enourmus population of subscribers that have an interest in Mourning happy by continuing to cover the game, and to ensure as much as possible that they remain dependable and responsible (in the eyes of the subscribers) when concerning the news portion of their services. The last is achieved by not doing things that suggests at abusing their media position (which they did when they removed Mourning from their list).
I just wanted to say, I belive you Sorrow.
I'm afraid Admin and his staff "suffers" a bit from human nature as well. Just a hunch..
Nice points Frek. A good post for sure.
And that surprises you?
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
MMORPG.com is a news media. Pepsi and Pampers sells sugar and cloth to shit in. As a news media they cannot just do as they please and expect lots of subscribers. In fact, I doubth they want to. But they may want to, and that is the real issue here. We have no way of knowing this was in fact a neccesary move or abusive conduct. That is the reason they should have avoided it in the first place.
read 38 pages and came to this conclusion...
"If I own a website, I have control over it." Pretty much if mmorpg wants to remove mourning, they dont need to even announce or create a discussion over it. Wasting bandwidth, time, effort, and is a serious mental drain for the staff(seeing how everyone else is indirectly flaming everyone else).
For me, its fine how mmorpg.com want to do their website, remember even we the so call "subscribers" dont pay a thing to them but for every click we do on this website, they are paying for the bandwidth. However, maybe removing the link to the game itself is abit rash . Terminating the forum is pretty fine(since even mourning autocratic(or is it dictatorship) style PR managers wants it) but maybe leaving the link to the game for the gamers judge themself would be a better decision.
And to all out there, mmorpg.com has to make money to keep this site up(it aint cheap). Giving games free publication is a bonus to them. Look at the list, how many of those are major companies? How many do you think are paying morpg.com to keep their links/forum up? Yeah yeah the banners and stuff all out there but which forum site in the world doesnt have them? Every website does have a significant cost to run. Stop bashing mmorpg.com for their moves and instead get back to the topic at hand.
Im no fanboi or anything, but go study some basic computing, e-commerce and forum management and you will find that running a website is pain in the ass and receiving insultive feedbacks aint helping much.
Anyway mourning looks good to start with, nice screeny and stuff but never got into beta
I for one looks at the game before the PR and will still give it a try if a chance ever arises.(cause Im in IT and the hardwork of the programmers should not be tarnished by bad PR or lousy management)
My stand on this is, mmorpg.com has every right to remove anything they want, however on my opinion keeping just the link up with no updates would be a better decision then outright termination of all related articles to it.
Tnx for understanding my points. I hope you and the team take them seriously. It's rather dangerous when people starts playing with power, whatever their reasons..
I was wondering though, are you at liberty to say whether you checked the source of these PMs? It's rather disturbing to think this could all be caused by some imposers..
Absolutely. Everyone's point is valid and open to discuss. And I agree it can be very dangerous when people start to play with power. That is why we did what we did. In the last four years of this site in existance, we have never whiped an entire forum before. Our Site administrator takes great strides when decisions are made. When he decided to remove a forum, that means it was a pretty hard core decision and not something done in a fit of anger or "well, we will show them"
Also, the validity of the PMs were genuine. They were more like "emails" than PMs. We made sure the sources were genuine before making a rather enormous decision like this.
Like I said, I value anyone's opinion in this matter. I am just telling you "our side" of the situation.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Wow, this is so incredibly exciting you wake up with the world spinning (more so than normal.
Truly insane. I enjoy MMORPG, and after I saw all this I took a quick look at Mourning and determined it appeared to be a used and abused idea, so hey...go MMORPG.com.
They could ban people from wearing pants whilst browsing their website, who cares? One game removed, and we can no longer trust them?
Games aren't that important. Smoke a cigarette, lay back, and take it easy.
Absolutely. Everyone's point is valid and open to discuss. And I agree it can be very dangerous when people start to play with power. That is why we did what we did. In the last four years of this site in existance, we have never whiped an entire forum before. Our Site administrator takes great strides when decisions are made. When he decided to remove a forum, that means it was a pretty hard core decision and not something done in a fit of anger or "well, we will show them"
Also, the validity of the PMs were genuine. They were more like "emails" than PMs. We made sure the sources were genuine before making a rather enormous decision like this.
Like I said, I value anyone's opinion in this matter. I am just telling you "our side" of the situation.
well your not really telling us anything other then the mmorpg staff and mourning staff got into a private arguement so now mmorpg has taken it upon themselves to try to flex there muscle.
Absolutely. Everyone's point is valid and open to discuss. And I agree it can be very dangerous when people start to play with power. That is why we did what we did. In the last four years of this site in existance, we have never whiped an entire forum before. Our Site administrator takes great strides when decisions are made. When he decided to remove a forum, that means it was a pretty hard core decision and not something done in a fit of anger or "well, we will show them"
Also, the validity of the PMs were genuine. They were more like "emails" than PMs. We made sure the sources were genuine before making a rather enormous decision like this.
Like I said, I value anyone's opinion in this matter. I am just telling you "our side" of the situation.
well your not really telling us anything other then the mmorpg staff and mourning staff got into a private arguement so now mmorpg has taken it upon themselves to try to flex there muscle.
It's time to change this statement.
I'm no fan of the slippery-slope reasoning and the conspiratorial ideas it brings to mind. However, it's good to recognize when you are on a slippery-slope. With the deletion of any game from the list for any reason other than the discontinuation of the game or it's production; you can not help but feel the wheels slip a little. As I have said before I don't care that a forum was removed. It's the incomplete list and the questions it brings to mind about what other reasons may arise in the future that could cause a game to be removed from the list that bothers me. After all, today it may be extreme issues, next year it may be a game that someone just doesn't like (extreme and unrealistic examples there but for point making only).
Absolutely. Everyone's point is valid and open to discuss. And I agree it can be very dangerous when people start to play with power. That is why we did what we did. In the last four years of this site in existance, we have never whiped an entire forum before. Our Site administrator takes great strides when decisions are made. When he decided to remove a forum, that means it was a pretty hard core decision and not something done in a fit of anger or "well, we will show them"
Also, the validity of the PMs were genuine. They were more like "emails" than PMs. We made sure the sources were genuine before making a rather enormous decision like this.
Like I said, I value anyone's opinion in this matter. I am just telling you "our side" of the situation.
well your not really telling us anything other then the mmorpg staff and mourning staff got into a private arguement so now mmorpg has taken it upon themselves to try to flex there muscle.
I bet it was something like this....
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2706
Your point is well taken and I understand your concern regarding the slippery slope. However, you can rest assured that this action was not taken lightly or capriciously. As En1Gma stated, I'm not at liberty to repeat the actual content of the discourse here, but one thing that needs to be underscored is that the messages in question were directed as much at this community as they were at the staff.
The staff and admins here are doing everything they can to keep this a free and open discussion of MMORPGs. We do have rules...it's not anarchy here, but we tend to give the posters more than enough rope to hang themselves before we pull the lever.
I honestly do not foresee another game being given the same treatment. It would truly have to be an extreme circumstance, just as this one was.
Just be certain that the actions taken by this site were done out of respect for and protection of this community, not out of pettiness.
-----
Old timer.
What did they threaten you with lawsuits when you talked about their crappy game like they did to Lowtax over at something awful? http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2706 <- link to the amusing legal threat story.
I didn't read this entire thread but it seems people are questioning the staff of this sites right to exclude a game from their listing. It's their site, they pay the bills and organize it so it is totally their prerogative if they want to list a certain game or not. If you do not like it, just stop visiting the site.
Doesn't this contradict the claim by Tiamat that the descision to remove mourning from this site was requested by them first?
Yes, and the Mourning customers don't seem to mind that they were lied to since it wasn't put to question at all on the Mourning website.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
The deletion of Mourning forums and game from MMORPG.com was due to our express request.
We don't need boards which are exactly the opposite of the concepts based on which we founded our community.
That's the same reason because of which we refused to make VN boards as Mourning game boards. You can't create a true community nor get any help from some boards filled up more than 90% with insulting languages and flame wars.
Also, we were always encuraged out community to speak up their minds, and act like people with spine. We don't need mindless fanbois as our followers, the same as we don't need trolls messing up our boards.
We didn't shout the mouth of threads or discussions saying bad things about our game, because ALL the input and feedback is needed in order to make things work as they really should. A developer must be really stupid to do that to his community.
All we EVER asked was to use a common sense language and support your saying with facts and examples, and mostly banned only people which used bad language or trolled the boards. I said mostly because there were some a few exceptions allready well known from this, but we hope that we already solved that, and it will never happens again.
Also, I don't understand the behavior of MMORPG staff. we never said MMORPG.com sucks, we just said Mourning boards from their site are a lame excuse of a forum. I guess we had the right to say that about the forum of OUR game from their site. There weren't mature discussion about our game in there, as they should as it was a game's board, but in fact only imature people trolling everything related with our game, like all the Mourning-is-a-scum magic or the billing-thinggye. I guess if those kinds of posts would have been made on other game's forums in there, they would have been quickly dealt with.. but of course, for Mourning wasn't the case.. Also, they didn't did anything regarding all the ones which posted in there all sort of stupid things to feed those flame wars and preteding they are from our staff.
Yet MMORPG staff came up and said some things about us which should have never be said in a professional relationship.
That's why I said yes when our discussion came to the point of which we should have to ask from MMORPG staff to entirely delete Mourning game and its forums from their site.
And I'm quite sure that not we are the ones who'll have to lose from this.
And as a last thing, it's astonishing to see that they claim they were the ones doing this because they felt so:
quote:
Today MMORPG.com has made the difficult decision to remove the game "Mourning" from our list of MMORPG's as well as shut down our Mourning specific forums.
We would like to clarify that this decision was not based on the actions of any community members at MMORPG.com - rather our core feelings about the company behind this project, and the way they treat us and their community.
My dear MMORPG staff, what about the fact the WE expressely asked you to do this?
I gues we'll see who was right about this. Atm I'm just glad we don't have to deal anymore with all the trollings from those forums.
EDIT: it seems that this is really needed, as some can't understand that an official position is not made in the middle of a discussion in a thread. This is just a quick and personal note for our board members to read and know what was happening.
Also we already took note of MMORPG.dot official position as stated in their home page announcement. Our official position will be out in the following days, and you'll know it from our Announcement forum and also from our main site."
BestSigEver :P
I see many of the points you have made. But have you considered that MMORPG.com isn't just a buisniss, but a media buisniss..? When a media buisniss lose their ehics we get a media who gives the "news" who pay the most or who the person in power feels most serves him or his cause. That sort of news is called propaganda. Do you really want such "news" all because you belive that "it's their buisniss so they can do what they please"?
Do you see why MMORPG.com are in danger of becoming such an institusion by removing Mourning, regardless how you may feel about the game in question..?
So let me understand what your saying correctly. You feel that if you provide a news service and you ONLY show what you chose to show with news its an agenda and unethical? SO exactly what major news publication do you consider ethical then? I cannot think of an example where there is a newspaper or media source that manages and decided to report ALL news that comes their way. There is always a section and a choice on what will and won't make it. That does NOT make it ethical unless the person is has an agenda when he selects what makes it and what don't. Thats call good business and posting what people want to see the most.
I think you really need to rethink your whole news concept and philosophy there, its completely flawed. And I would love to see you giveme an example of a source in ANY form of news that gives you ALL the news for their "theme" or in the case of regular news sources, ALL the news.
You seem to be confusing with a media source that is covering a story giving you ALL the facts to the story, which then it becomes an ethics issue if they do not. However they do not need to give you ALL the news, that would not only be a bad business choice but quite impossible to achive.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Trust me....it was not a private argument. There was much more involved than a private argument. We handle private arguments 30,000 times a day here from the forums and we are in continious dialogue with many many mmorpg software companies; private arguments happen and they are inevitable.
This was not a private argument in the very sense of the word
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Did they? Where? I've been following this thread from the beginning but can remember below half a dozen ppl strongly indicating they are Mourning fans, only.. Have I missed something?
Nope, I think you said it perfectly. About half a dozen.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World