Story, he skipped it so he has no right to be critical of it.
Melee vs. Ranged, if he has played other MMOs then he would know this wasn't something to be answered in a 30 minute demo of a lvl 2 character.
The 1st quest - This is the only thing he had any right to be critical of. There could have been more to the quest than just kill 10 slugs. Do we "know" that the quest was part of his Class story arc? Bioware has said there are Class story arc quests, and world story quests. He could just as easily have been doing a world quest. It seems it was a class story arc, but we can't be 100 percent. We also don't know what the next quest was. Perhaps the slug quest was the only "kill x mob" quest in the chain. So, you get thru that and you are off to being that bad*** sith you always wanted.
We know too little, and so does he. I just believe that in order to write any kind of prereview on a game that you cannot skip anything, and see what the WHOLE of the game entails. He was there to demo the game and he skipped content in order to write a review, and there is no way to write an objective article that way.
IMHO, you either play everything and judge it all on its merits, or you don't write an article on it. Period. Plus do your research, and don't say "I wanna play Darth Maul", and then pick the wrong class for that fantasy. Anybody that is in journalism should have to review the subject that they are talking about. Which he clearly didn't
Please stop, because the only people who are in the wrong here are the OP bashers. You people keep saying that he shouldn't be critical because he doesn't know about the entire game and its the first quest, moreover you say that it is rediculous that he is making something of the game if never was going to be. Yet it is you who are making claims about this article about things it never intended to do. The OP is giving a preview of gameplay of a class. Gameplay =/= story dialogue. So he did exactly what he needed to do. He is not judging the whole game at all as you people claim, he is basing his experience on the single quest and he said he wasn't impressed by that. So what did he do, he gave a gameplay PREVIEW, PREVIEw, PREVIEW based on a quest. He is negative about that quest and hopes the rest wont be similar. He is not being negative about the game in general at all, that is just what you fanboys keep saying. He is basing his experience of the things he was able to play and nothing more. He is not saying the entire class is horrible or boring, just the first quest. He just hopes that this experience will not be repeated troughout the entire game....
You people just dont want to hear a single negative thing, yet you also say that every mmo's first quest is boring, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. The OP clearly said he was only allowed to play a very limited demo. He just hopes that this demo is not similar to the rest of the game.
You know what is funny, that there is also a preview of the Smugler, which was very positive!! And yet, then it is ok to jump to assumptions? Then it is ok to conclude that this game is amazing based on a single quest? As long as it is positive right? Geez.....You people need to calm down and stop making this preview more than it is by calling it a REVIEW. Stop making this OP's experience more than it was. He only talked about the this single experience, just as you people claim it was, so I do not really see what the problem is.....
If every negative thing in this preview was positive, then you people woudldn't have complained as you didn't with the smuggler review. Stop making this preview more than it is.
Please stop, because the only people who are in the wrong here are the OP bashers. You people keep saying that he shouldn't be critical because he doesn't know about the entire game and its the first quest, moreover you say that it is rediculous that he is making something of the game if never was going to be. Yet it is you who are making claims about this article about things it never intended to do. The OP is giving a preview of gameplay of a class. Gameplay =/= story dialogue. So he did exactly what he needed to do. He is not judging the whole game at all as you people claim, he is basing his experience on the single quest and he said he wasn't impressed by that. So what did he do, he gave a gameplay PREVIEW, PREVIEw, PREVIEW based on a quest. He is negative about that quest and hopes the rest wont be similar. He is not being negative about the game in general at all, that is just what you fanboys keep saying. He is basing his experience of the things he was able to play and nothing more. He is not saying the entire class is horrible or boring, just the first quest. He just hopes that this experience will not be repeated troughout the entire game....
I suggest that you re-read his closing statements.
"In the end I found the Sith Warrior lacking. Trust me, I am eager to take another shot at the class and definitely want to give it the due it deserves, but as a starting quest and starting area I was bored quickly when killing giant slugs. The skills were ok, with standard light saber attacks and some jumps and blasting effects, but again I fear for my abilities when it comes to ranged opponents. Time will tell on this one. I will say that for all of the story and personal achievements Bioware is hyping up in this game, killing slugs at the start just seemed like another MMO in my book. Sorry fans if you were expecting awesomeness, I was too. The Smuggler was much more fun to start with, at least for now. At PAX I promise to give this class a second chance... in the name of Maul. "
How can he say that he found a class "lacking" when he only tried the first levels for 15 mins? And to worry about ranged attacks is ridiculous. Lastly he makes a sweeping statement about the whole game based on the first quests. Which is downright ridiculous. The same could be said about ANY MMO, not just SWTOR
You people just dont want to hear a single negative thing, yet you also say that every mmo's first quest is boring, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. The OP clearly said he was only allowed to play a very limited demo. He just hopes that this demo is not similar to the rest of the game.
It's not about not wanting to hear negative things, that's YOUR assumption. It's about being objective. That's is diffierent.
You know what is funny, that there is also a preview of the Smugler, which was very positive!! And yet, then it is ok to jump to assumptions? Then it is ok to conclude that this game is amazing based on a single quest? As long as it is positive right? Geez.....You people need to calm down and stop making this preview more than it is by calling it a REVIEW. Stop making this OP's experience more than it was. He only talked about the this single experience, just as you people claim it was, so I do not really see what the problem is.....
If every negative thing in this preview was positive, then you people woudldn't have complained as you didn't with the smuggler review. Stop making this preview more than it is.
Respected journalists and article writers are supposed to be objective. This article wasn't. It was full of pre-conceived bias and lacked objectivity. I'd say the same article had been written in the same way for GW2, TSW or any other new MMO. That's not being a fanboi. That's being objective.
Sounds like the op wants to be all mighty and powerful with a double-edged lightsaber at level 1. Sorry but not going to happen! You must learn the ways of the dark side my young apprentice before being granted such heroic powers.
If every negative thing in this preview was positive, then you people woudldn't have complained as you didn't with the smuggler review. Stop making this preview more than it is.
I think you will find the objection is not to being negative but to being... well, plain dumb about the game. The OP did not;
(i) know that the class he is looking for to play out his Darth Maul fantasy is the Sith Inquisitor,
(ii) know that the class has skills to combat ranged attacks,
(iii) hesitate to write the article even though he skipped the key distinctive gameplay element (dialogue, story) due to time constraints,
(iv) allow even the possibility for the story to be interesting since "I don't need to remind myself I am evil. I just want to hack Jedi apart." Bioware have worked hard to allow Sith to be more complex than that.
you will find much praise for the balanced and informative style of the impression article that is the subject of the thread.
SO, not to be too vindictive towards the OP, but even as a forum post it was a poor attempt. As an article from a professional journalist... well, enough said already.
Originally posted by Tarka How can he say that he found a class "lacking" when he only tried the first levels for 15 mins? And to worry about ranged attacks is ridiculous. Lastly he makes a sweeping statement about the whole game based on the first quests. Which is downright ridiculous. The same could be said about ANY MMO, not just SWTOR
1)If the first levels and first 15 minutes seemed lacking what is he supposed to say? Nothing? I guess that's your objectivity... Nothing or Positive.
2)Why is it ridiculous to worry about ranged attacks? do you have any argument on this? or are you just rambling and ironically making sweeping statements yourself? An initial concern to which he added that "Time will tell".
3)By sweeping statement about the whole game you must be reffering to this "at the start just seemed like another MMO in my book.". Something you claim is ridiculous as a statement... and then go on to make exactly the same statement in the games defence?
Allow me to correct your 2nd sweeping generalised statement and change "ANY MMO" with "MOST MMOs". --Newsflash-- MOST MMOs are crap grindfests especially at their early stages,if you think that constitutes an excuse or counter-argument to what the reviewer said... think again infact you just reinforced his assessment.
In the end, if you play like the OP, if you find yourself nodding as you read the impression, then Bioware will happily take your money but you are NOT the target audience for this game.
The target audience of this game are retards that think that voice overs is a revolutionary and innovative idea to distract you from still doing the same quests as any other MMO.
Hardly a distraction if you actually do enjoy the VO. If you don't , then move along, probably not the game for you.
Caddaric www.dominusnihil.com Veteran of SWG, LOTRO, COH Future player of SW: The Old Republic
i dont think he is wrong.. who among us havent played kotor 1/2 a few times (and even for the first time) and got bored here & there from the dialogs..
he has a point .. especially when looking at the leading mmorpg out there where lvling is a joke/no one cares about the quests themselfs..
There are a few things that you can learn about a game during the first hour you play. You can get a feel for the art style, the responsiveness of the controls, and often the level of polish that the dev team has put on the engine. What you can't really do is get a feel for your class. I have never seen a class in any game that played at level 5 the way it did after level 10.
I must admit that I am unable to imagine skipping dialog on the first play-through of a BioWare game. I am especially baffled by a reviewer sitting down to evaluate a BioWare game and skipping the dialog. It raises the question of whether or not the reviewer is competent.
So many people are being hard on this guy cause he skipped the dialogue. Quite frankly i do not read quest dialogue and i'm not a new MMO gamer i've been playing since 1996. I play to make my own story personally and I know many others who do the same, my father being one who is 59 years old and not some dumb kid.
Some people play to play the other aspects of the game, not to play the story line. If i wanted to play for the story and not to play to fight and compete against 100's of other real people, i'd play a single player RPG
My thoughts exactly
Boy let me tell you, if this how the majority of mmo gamers play, then the genre is truly in a world of shit. I've been posting on this article since last night, and even though everyone should play a game how they want to play it, it really doesn't look good not only for TOR, but GW2, Tera, and others.
Let me explain. After reading this piece, and having some discussion's, i came away with, that people really don't care about the journey. You know the start at level 1 to whatever the so called end level will be. It would seem that all these developers have been doing nothing more than wasting millions of dollars on creating content that people don't want to hassle with.
I guess what people really want is to start off at level cap with every power and the highest set of equipment right after character creation. Why so much fuss over huge open worlds when it also seems that all people want to do is sit in a hub spamming LFG and running instances over and over to get that few pieces of gear with that plus one stat on it. Why even have crafting in the game as well. Just make it on game start, everyone be master craftsmen and be able to make everything in the game.
This seems like what the majority want's, since no one like's reading or even listening to quest givers or even cares about story or the development of one's character. Isn't this what the OP wrote in his hands on. He knew he was an evil Sith and he didn't care what the quest giver was telling him. All he wanted to do was kill jedi. He went to say he feels this is what most people will do, to just run through to level cap to get the best stuff, like in WOW.
So, it looks that even though the people are screaming for the genre to make forward advacement, it seems that all they really want is nothing more than the same old WOW system of very little depth and boring grinds.
Story, he skipped it so he has no right to be critical of it.
He wasn't critical of it, he said he picked answers, but in the end just hit the space bar to get a move on, maybe due to limited time, or maybe just to get right into the fray. There will be plenty of time when it releases to read all the quests, and he just wanted to get into the quest.
Melee vs. Ranged, if he has played other MMOs then he would know this wasn't something to be answered in a 30 minute demo of a lvl 2 character.
Its a valid point to think about. He didnt say the Sith warrior had no ranged defence, he just said it was the first thing he thought of when playing the warrior.
The 1st quest - This is the only thing he had any right to be critical of. There could have been more to the quest than just kill 10 slugs. Do we "know" that the quest was part of his Class story arc? Bioware has said there are Class story arc quests, and world story quests. He could just as easily have been doing a world quest. It seems it was a class story arc, but we can't be 100 percent. We also don't know what the next quest was. Perhaps the slug quest was the only "kill x mob" quest in the chain. So, you get thru that and you are off to being that bad*** sith you always wanted.
You are a SITH WARRIOR. They could have made the quest more interesting by exterminating a group of locals. Defeating a bunch of padawans. Even finding an injured jedi with reduced strength and you had to track him down and kill him. Remember that first impressions are everything, and killing slugs is not a great first impression.
We know too little, and so does he. I just believe that in order to write any kind of prereview on a game that you cannot skip anything, and see what the WHOLE of the game entails. He was there to demo the game and he skipped content in order to write a review, and there is no way to write an objective article that way.
He was very objective about what he saw and played. He told us specifically what he did. He didn't tell us the story was horrible, and not tell us that he skipped it. He said he rushed a bit through it and nothing more. His main focus was on thougths for the class and inquiries about possible issues along the road. No definites. And after playing the Smuggler, he has a basis for determining if this starter quest is as good and interesting based off of a previous one.
IMHO, you either play everything and judge it all on its merits, or you don't write an article on it. Period. Plus do your research, and don't say "I wanna play Darth Maul", and then pick the wrong class for that fantasy. Anybody that is in journalism should have to review the subject that they are talking about. Which he clearly didn't
It's funny you make a statement like that when you have no idea what you're talking about either.
Perhaps you missed the eurogamer review, but heres a helpful link for a summary.
Another example, reports Eurogamer, is the Sith Warrior's choice to become a Marauder - a fast, damage-dealing class a la Darth Maul - or a Juggernaut, a slower, more strategic archetype with heavy armor like Darth Vader. Each Advanced Class has two ability trees, with a third ability tree shared by both - so every given class has five or so skill trees (though you'll only be able to use three).
As you can see, the sith warrior has the option to go the dual bladed lightsaber side, similar to Dart Maul. So it is not odd, or wrong, to have Darth Maul in mind when playing a warrior.
I was a little disapointed with this review. As i to really want to play a jedi in this game. But the realality is that the game is not finished, the jedi/sith are not going to be the be all end all of the game and until it is released things will change.
I understand that the class that he wanted to play didnt have a GOD button. But it is a MMO now. None of the Darths will be jonny bad ass's like the movie. Because there will be 1000 other just the same as you.
I understand that this waters down the whole thought that "I am an unstopable jedi/sith" But again that thing called MMO and there has to be balance. THere will be rock,paper,scissors and as a sith/jedi we will have things that will stop us/kill us/what ever us and as a ground and pound class im sure it will be ranged.
Why so much fuss over huge open worlds when it also seems that all people want to do is sit in a hub spamming LFG and running instances over and over to get that few pieces of gear with that plus one stat on it. Why even have crafting in the game as well. Just make it on game start, everyone be master craftsmen and be able to make everything in the game.
Because huge open worlds don't have instances that are integral to the end game content. Because crafting is not about leveling up as a crafter rather than becoming part of the player run economy that accompanies the so much desired huge open world. Because the few pieces of gear come from the player crafters... are not restricted to levels... classes... or races...
Getting the ability , the skill, the knowledge is only a small part. Using them there on after to shape and affect the world and others in it is the important part.
Are you good at storytelling and want to make a MMO with real longevity? Then setup a wonderful background setting & story to make your world immersive and add features that allow the players to affect the gameworld in meaningful and tangible ways.
Otherwise just stop pulling our leg come clean that you are just amking another linear theme park with Voice Over that plays like every other mediocre (including WoW) mmo and stop pretending your game is awesomeness personified.
Why so much fuss over huge open worlds when it also seems that all people want to do is sit in a hub spamming LFG and running instances over and over to get that few pieces of gear with that plus one stat on it. Why even have crafting in the game as well. Just make it on game start, everyone be master craftsmen and be able to make everything in the game.
Because huge open worlds don't have instances that are integral to the end game content. Because crafting is not about leveling up as a crafter rather than becoming part of the player run economy that accompanies the so much desired huge open world. Because the few pieces of gear come from the player crafters... are not restricted to levels... classes... or races...
Getting the ability , the skill, the knowledge is only a small part. Using them there on after to shape and affect the world and others in it is the important part.
Are you good at storytelling and want to make a MMO with real longevity? Then setup a wonderful background setting & story to make your world immersive and add features that allow the players to affect the gameworld in meaningful and tangible ways.
Otherwise just stop pulling our leg come clean that you are just amking another linear theme park with Voice Over that plays like every other mediocre (including WoW) mmo and stop pretending your game is awesomeness personified.
Really. Then my friend you're in the minority because is seems most want nothing more than to get that new shiney that includes doing the same old grind day in and day out.
I think this is probably a very honest assement of ToR. Lets face it there are people out there that would have written its the best game ever ever ever even if it was complete rubbish. They so like the idea of the IP or BW that a 30 min demo would just be them drooling and the review would be little use.
Here though we see a review for the more traditional MMO player that isn't so interested in VO and story. Cause when it comes to story it often takes one of two paths, first the boring exposition where you have lots of dialogue, nothing changes and after an hour of reading you find you have to go kill some rats. The second is the world changing story lines where you slay the king and take the crown and marry the princess. The second is the story everyone really likes and what we all talk about when we say that was a great story. Not the 20 pages of rubbish about how rats are a menace.
But given this is an MMO where you actions can't affect anything outside of the instance and your personal character do you think there will be an option to kill the king? Cause I think its unfortunate but the Story part of the game and the MMO part of the MMO are going to be seperate. So that once you come out of your instance you are going to find no matter how many Sith you have killed and how many Sith vessels you have smashed up they still have a full army and a full space fleet. While there may be ways to change the alliagence of a planet this will be in the open world and be far less story based and more PvP and raid based content. So for some MMO players they too are going to get bored of making all these choices that offer no real impact on the world outside your little instance and mostly just expoisiton. 'Yes master the sith shall rise again, yes master we shall strike down the republic, yes master I am prepared, yes master I shall go get you that brain for your studdies... hang on I thought we were talking about crushing the republic what do you mean this is the quest all that was just posturing and had no effect on anything?'
As for the combat of course this is going to be an issue, it was a massive game breaking issue in WAR and that was a fantasy game. The problem lies in melee vs range and making it so both are viable and you don't end up with root locks or kiting. While at the same time allowing both to be played tactically and not have a massive advantage to range dps when it comes to PvP. And ToR has it much harder as if speced in a certain way 6 of the 8 classes can offer long range damage while only one is melee. Where as most fantasy games have a closer mix of 50/50 between the ranged casters and the melee classes. So I'm sure BW are aware of this or it will come out in the testing.
Now I think the game looks very nice, but once you take VO and Story out. Which depending on the player may or may not be that important the game doesn't at this stage offer much that we haven't seen before. How companions are handled will have some effect but could this just be like STO bridge officers. How customisation both of look and play of the classes will also be important, at the moment the devs are more interested in talking about armour sets than facial customisation so we will have to see how this plays out.
I found interesting the reviewer didn't play the way BioWare wanted him to play but how most MMO players does.
Intentionally skipping the dialogs once he understood they were cookie cutter: I'm evilllll! Was a smart and logic move, was a good move.
BioWare hyped the heroic feeling game play and it was fair to point at killing slugs, even with a glowing stick, did not feel heroic.
There was some lack of foresight regarding the issue between ranged and LS, how about force jump, saber block and so? Mentioning it once would have been far enough.
I think this is probably a very honest assement of ToR. Lets face it there are people out there that would have written its the best game ever ever ever even if it was complete rubbish. They so like the idea of the IP or BW that a 30 min demo would just be them drooling and the review would be little use.
It was also a very misinformed assesment. Aside from that though I think you make some really good points in your post.
There IS a tension between making story important while the open MMO world is static. How good a story can be told if nothing apart from yourself can actually change throughout the course of the story?
LOTRO had a lot of difficulty handling this since the players met Frodo in Rivendell, yet Frodo also left for Mordor after the Moria expansion. So Turbine had to have multiple Frodos in a sense.
Perhaps this is why many people simply dismiss story telling as something irrevelant to MMO play. Story is ALWAYS going to be dull since the world is static so why bother with it? Just get on with becoming powerful and the interesting stuff that follows.
All a good reason to be interested in the dynamic event system in Guild Wars 2 but also I'm sure Bioware have understood this dilemma from the start and we'll eventually learn how they handled it.
It's OK to be negative and criticize the article, and even discuss the larger issue at hand here on the role of storyline, etc. But it is not OK for you guys to attack each other, or attack Garrett the author of the piece. This will not be tolerated, so keep it civil. We are keeping a close eye on this thread, so you act out of line at your own risk.
I see where the Writer is coming from on the article and can tell that there will be quite a few people who play MMO's today that will have the same opinion.
I hope that this article makes the type of player he is referring too HATE the game and want to stay away from it.
Because I LIKE the idea of the story lines and I DO read the text on quests I have not done ten thousand times before. So, this will be something I am actually attracted too. It will make the game more APPEALING to me and others who enjoy the stories and are less about the massive grind to get to the end content. It is only a grind if the end content is what you are looking forward too and the only thing that appeals to you!
Really looking forward to this game.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
People can be critical of reading the dialogue or not ... that's fine.
But the fact is, if you're trying to re-play this game with an alt, 99% of people are going to skip the dialogue (if it's the same or similar). So if he says it's a bit lackluster outside of the story ... then what are YOU going to do when you're trying to replay the game and the story is no longer interesting because you've already read it.
If you've ever tried to replay mass effect or dragon age, then you know what I mean. I still read the parts that I make different decisions, but the game play is fun. How much fun would it be to replay those games if the gameplay sucked and you already knew how the story ended.
Comments
Please stop, because the only people who are in the wrong here are the OP bashers. You people keep saying that he shouldn't be critical because he doesn't know about the entire game and its the first quest, moreover you say that it is rediculous that he is making something of the game if never was going to be. Yet it is you who are making claims about this article about things it never intended to do. The OP is giving a preview of gameplay of a class. Gameplay =/= story dialogue. So he did exactly what he needed to do. He is not judging the whole game at all as you people claim, he is basing his experience on the single quest and he said he wasn't impressed by that. So what did he do, he gave a gameplay PREVIEW, PREVIEw, PREVIEW based on a quest. He is negative about that quest and hopes the rest wont be similar. He is not being negative about the game in general at all, that is just what you fanboys keep saying. He is basing his experience of the things he was able to play and nothing more. He is not saying the entire class is horrible or boring, just the first quest. He just hopes that this experience will not be repeated troughout the entire game....
You people just dont want to hear a single negative thing, yet you also say that every mmo's first quest is boring, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. The OP clearly said he was only allowed to play a very limited demo. He just hopes that this demo is not similar to the rest of the game.
You know what is funny, that there is also a preview of the Smugler, which was very positive!! And yet, then it is ok to jump to assumptions? Then it is ok to conclude that this game is amazing based on a single quest? As long as it is positive right? Geez.....You people need to calm down and stop making this preview more than it is by calling it a REVIEW. Stop making this OP's experience more than it was. He only talked about the this single experience, just as you people claim it was, so I do not really see what the problem is.....
If every negative thing in this preview was positive, then you people woudldn't have complained as you didn't with the smuggler review. Stop making this preview more than it is.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
what this guy said.. just not as nerdy
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
I think you will find the objection is not to being negative but to being... well, plain dumb about the game. The OP did not;
(i) know that the class he is looking for to play out his Darth Maul fantasy is the Sith Inquisitor,
(ii) know that the class has skills to combat ranged attacks,
(iii) hesitate to write the article even though he skipped the key distinctive gameplay element (dialogue, story) due to time constraints,
(iv) allow even the possibility for the story to be interesting since "I don't need to remind myself I am evil. I just want to hack Jedi apart." Bioware have worked hard to allow Sith to be more complex than that.
In this thread
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/281905/Massively-hands-on-with-SWTOR-not-positive-impressions.html
you will find much praise for the balanced and informative style of the impression article that is the subject of the thread.
SO, not to be too vindictive towards the OP, but even as a forum post it was a poor attempt. As an article from a professional journalist... well, enough said already.
1)If the first levels and first 15 minutes seemed lacking what is he supposed to say? Nothing? I guess that's your objectivity... Nothing or Positive.
2)Why is it ridiculous to worry about ranged attacks? do you have any argument on this? or are you just rambling and ironically making sweeping statements yourself? An initial concern to which he added that "Time will tell".
3)By sweeping statement about the whole game you must be reffering to this "at the start just seemed like another MMO in my book.". Something you claim is ridiculous as a statement... and then go on to make exactly the same statement in the games defence?
Allow me to correct your 2nd sweeping generalised statement and change "ANY MMO" with "MOST MMOs".
--Newsflash-- MOST MMOs are crap grindfests especially at their early stages,if you think that constitutes an excuse or counter-argument to what the reviewer said... think again infact you just reinforced his assessment.
Hardly a distraction if you actually do enjoy the VO. If you don't , then move along, probably not the game for you.
Caddaric
www.dominusnihil.com
Veteran of SWG, LOTRO, COH
Future player of SW: The Old Republic
Is this the new defence line for this game?
"NOT TARGET AUDIENCE MATERIAL!"
You guys plan to distribute t-shirts with this logo too? cause i really want one!
You might not be missing anything, then. There is no "Star Wars" in Star Wars: TOR.
i dont think he is wrong.. who among us havent played kotor 1/2 a few times (and even for the first time) and got bored here & there from the dialogs..
he has a point .. especially when looking at the leading mmorpg out there where lvling is a joke/no one cares about the quests themselfs..
There are a few things that you can learn about a game during the first hour you play. You can get a feel for the art style, the responsiveness of the controls, and often the level of polish that the dev team has put on the engine. What you can't really do is get a feel for your class. I have never seen a class in any game that played at level 5 the way it did after level 10.
I must admit that I am unable to imagine skipping dialog on the first play-through of a BioWare game. I am especially baffled by a reviewer sitting down to evaluate a BioWare game and skipping the dialog. It raises the question of whether or not the reviewer is competent.
The Sith Warrior looks JUST LIKE a Human WoW rogue LOL
WoW with lightsabers!!!!!! whoo hooo!!!
Boy let me tell you, if this how the majority of mmo gamers play, then the genre is truly in a world of shit. I've been posting on this article since last night, and even though everyone should play a game how they want to play it, it really doesn't look good not only for TOR, but GW2, Tera, and others.
Let me explain. After reading this piece, and having some discussion's, i came away with, that people really don't care about the journey. You know the start at level 1 to whatever the so called end level will be. It would seem that all these developers have been doing nothing more than wasting millions of dollars on creating content that people don't want to hassle with.
I guess what people really want is to start off at level cap with every power and the highest set of equipment right after character creation. Why so much fuss over huge open worlds when it also seems that all people want to do is sit in a hub spamming LFG and running instances over and over to get that few pieces of gear with that plus one stat on it. Why even have crafting in the game as well. Just make it on game start, everyone be master craftsmen and be able to make everything in the game.
This seems like what the majority want's, since no one like's reading or even listening to quest givers or even cares about story or the development of one's character. Isn't this what the OP wrote in his hands on. He knew he was an evil Sith and he didn't care what the quest giver was telling him. All he wanted to do was kill jedi. He went to say he feels this is what most people will do, to just run through to level cap to get the best stuff, like in WOW.
So, it looks that even though the people are screaming for the genre to make forward advacement, it seems that all they really want is nothing more than the same old WOW system of very little depth and boring grinds.
You will be the first to pre-order, don't kid yourself.
Haha, 10 pre-orders!!!
NOT
Originally posted by Blackzilla
what is the OP really critical of?
Story, he skipped it so he has no right to be critical of it.
He wasn't critical of it, he said he picked answers, but in the end just hit the space bar to get a move on, maybe due to limited time, or maybe just to get right into the fray. There will be plenty of time when it releases to read all the quests, and he just wanted to get into the quest.
Melee vs. Ranged, if he has played other MMOs then he would know this wasn't something to be answered in a 30 minute demo of a lvl 2 character.
Its a valid point to think about. He didnt say the Sith warrior had no ranged defence, he just said it was the first thing he thought of when playing the warrior.
The 1st quest - This is the only thing he had any right to be critical of. There could have been more to the quest than just kill 10 slugs. Do we "know" that the quest was part of his Class story arc? Bioware has said there are Class story arc quests, and world story quests. He could just as easily have been doing a world quest. It seems it was a class story arc, but we can't be 100 percent. We also don't know what the next quest was. Perhaps the slug quest was the only "kill x mob" quest in the chain. So, you get thru that and you are off to being that bad*** sith you always wanted.
You are a SITH WARRIOR. They could have made the quest more interesting by exterminating a group of locals. Defeating a bunch of padawans. Even finding an injured jedi with reduced strength and you had to track him down and kill him. Remember that first impressions are everything, and killing slugs is not a great first impression.
We know too little, and so does he. I just believe that in order to write any kind of prereview on a game that you cannot skip anything, and see what the WHOLE of the game entails. He was there to demo the game and he skipped content in order to write a review, and there is no way to write an objective article that way.
He was very objective about what he saw and played. He told us specifically what he did. He didn't tell us the story was horrible, and not tell us that he skipped it. He said he rushed a bit through it and nothing more. His main focus was on thougths for the class and inquiries about possible issues along the road. No definites. And after playing the Smuggler, he has a basis for determining if this starter quest is as good and interesting based off of a previous one.
IMHO, you either play everything and judge it all on its merits, or you don't write an article on it. Period. Plus do your research, and don't say "I wanna play Darth Maul", and then pick the wrong class for that fantasy. Anybody that is in journalism should have to review the subject that they are talking about. Which he clearly didn't
It's funny you make a statement like that when you have no idea what you're talking about either.
Perhaps you missed the eurogamer review, but heres a helpful link for a summary.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100689-Star-Wars-TOR-Unveils-Advanced-Class-System
Another example, reports Eurogamer, is the Sith Warrior's choice to become a Marauder - a fast, damage-dealing class a la Darth Maul - or a Juggernaut, a slower, more strategic archetype with heavy armor like Darth Vader. Each Advanced Class has two ability trees, with a third ability tree shared by both - so every given class has five or so skill trees (though you'll only be able to use three).
As you can see, the sith warrior has the option to go the dual bladed lightsaber side, similar to Dart Maul. So it is not odd, or wrong, to have Darth Maul in mind when playing a warrior.
I was a little disapointed with this review. As i to really want to play a jedi in this game. But the realality is that the game is not finished, the jedi/sith are not going to be the be all end all of the game and until it is released things will change.
I understand that the class that he wanted to play didnt have a GOD button. But it is a MMO now. None of the Darths will be jonny bad ass's like the movie. Because there will be 1000 other just the same as you.
I understand that this waters down the whole thought that "I am an unstopable jedi/sith" But again that thing called MMO and there has to be balance. THere will be rock,paper,scissors and as a sith/jedi we will have things that will stop us/kill us/what ever us and as a ground and pound class im sure it will be ranged.
Because huge open worlds don't have instances that are integral to the end game content. Because crafting is not about leveling up as a crafter rather than becoming part of the player run economy that accompanies the so much desired huge open world. Because the few pieces of gear come from the player crafters... are not restricted to levels... classes... or races...
Getting the ability , the skill, the knowledge is only a small part. Using them there on after to shape and affect the world and others in it is the important part.
Are you good at storytelling and want to make a MMO with real longevity? Then setup a wonderful background setting & story to make your world immersive and add features that allow the players to affect the gameworld in meaningful and tangible ways.
Otherwise just stop pulling our leg come clean that you are just amking another linear theme park with Voice Over that plays like every other mediocre (including WoW) mmo and stop pretending your game is awesomeness personified.
Really. Then my friend you're in the minority because is seems most want nothing more than to get that new shiney that includes doing the same old grind day in and day out.
I think this is probably a very honest assement of ToR. Lets face it there are people out there that would have written its the best game ever ever ever even if it was complete rubbish. They so like the idea of the IP or BW that a 30 min demo would just be them drooling and the review would be little use.
Here though we see a review for the more traditional MMO player that isn't so interested in VO and story. Cause when it comes to story it often takes one of two paths, first the boring exposition where you have lots of dialogue, nothing changes and after an hour of reading you find you have to go kill some rats. The second is the world changing story lines where you slay the king and take the crown and marry the princess. The second is the story everyone really likes and what we all talk about when we say that was a great story. Not the 20 pages of rubbish about how rats are a menace.
But given this is an MMO where you actions can't affect anything outside of the instance and your personal character do you think there will be an option to kill the king? Cause I think its unfortunate but the Story part of the game and the MMO part of the MMO are going to be seperate. So that once you come out of your instance you are going to find no matter how many Sith you have killed and how many Sith vessels you have smashed up they still have a full army and a full space fleet. While there may be ways to change the alliagence of a planet this will be in the open world and be far less story based and more PvP and raid based content. So for some MMO players they too are going to get bored of making all these choices that offer no real impact on the world outside your little instance and mostly just expoisiton. 'Yes master the sith shall rise again, yes master we shall strike down the republic, yes master I am prepared, yes master I shall go get you that brain for your studdies... hang on I thought we were talking about crushing the republic what do you mean this is the quest all that was just posturing and had no effect on anything?'
As for the combat of course this is going to be an issue, it was a massive game breaking issue in WAR and that was a fantasy game. The problem lies in melee vs range and making it so both are viable and you don't end up with root locks or kiting. While at the same time allowing both to be played tactically and not have a massive advantage to range dps when it comes to PvP. And ToR has it much harder as if speced in a certain way 6 of the 8 classes can offer long range damage while only one is melee. Where as most fantasy games have a closer mix of 50/50 between the ranged casters and the melee classes. So I'm sure BW are aware of this or it will come out in the testing.
Now I think the game looks very nice, but once you take VO and Story out. Which depending on the player may or may not be that important the game doesn't at this stage offer much that we haven't seen before. How companions are handled will have some effect but could this just be like STO bridge officers. How customisation both of look and play of the classes will also be important, at the moment the devs are more interested in talking about armour sets than facial customisation so we will have to see how this plays out.
I found interesting the reviewer didn't play the way BioWare wanted him to play but how most MMO players does.
Intentionally skipping the dialogs once he understood they were cookie cutter: I'm evilllll! Was a smart and logic move, was a good move.
BioWare hyped the heroic feeling game play and it was fair to point at killing slugs, even with a glowing stick, did not feel heroic.
There was some lack of foresight regarding the issue between ranged and LS, how about force jump, saber block and so? Mentioning it once would have been far enough.
LOL at all the people giving him shit for skipping the dialogue. Cause i'm sure if he read all of it killing slugs would be 10 times as fun!
It was also a very misinformed assesment. Aside from that though I think you make some really good points in your post.
There IS a tension between making story important while the open MMO world is static. How good a story can be told if nothing apart from yourself can actually change throughout the course of the story?
LOTRO had a lot of difficulty handling this since the players met Frodo in Rivendell, yet Frodo also left for Mordor after the Moria expansion. So Turbine had to have multiple Frodos in a sense.
Perhaps this is why many people simply dismiss story telling as something irrevelant to MMO play. Story is ALWAYS going to be dull since the world is static so why bother with it? Just get on with becoming powerful and the interesting stuff that follows.
All a good reason to be interested in the dynamic event system in Guild Wars 2 but also I'm sure Bioware have understood this dilemma from the start and we'll eventually learn how they handled it.
Hey guys,
It's OK to be negative and criticize the article, and even discuss the larger issue at hand here on the role of storyline, etc. But it is not OK for you guys to attack each other, or attack Garrett the author of the piece. This will not be tolerated, so keep it civil. We are keeping a close eye on this thread, so you act out of line at your own risk.
Thanks!
I see where the Writer is coming from on the article and can tell that there will be quite a few people who play MMO's today that will have the same opinion.
I hope that this article makes the type of player he is referring too HATE the game and want to stay away from it.
Because I LIKE the idea of the story lines and I DO read the text on quests I have not done ten thousand times before. So, this will be something I am actually attracted too. It will make the game more APPEALING to me and others who enjoy the stories and are less about the massive grind to get to the end content. It is only a grind if the end content is what you are looking forward too and the only thing that appeals to you!
Really looking forward to this game.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
People can be critical of reading the dialogue or not ... that's fine.
But the fact is, if you're trying to re-play this game with an alt, 99% of people are going to skip the dialogue (if it's the same or similar). So if he says it's a bit lackluster outside of the story ... then what are YOU going to do when you're trying to replay the game and the story is no longer interesting because you've already read it.
If you've ever tried to replay mass effect or dragon age, then you know what I mean. I still read the parts that I make different decisions, but the game play is fun. How much fun would it be to replay those games if the gameplay sucked and you already knew how the story ended.
That's what I took away from the review anyway.