Well the hard line legal issue is that there are very few... if any cases defining what constitiutes a "complete" game and this is very important. As long as no one defines what a compltete game is any legal action taken will be case to case and could have any fallout.
There's an EU law in the making (if not already released) that states that software sold (and the services around it) should be 100 functional and non-buggy. I don't know the complete in's and out's of the law as they're making it, but I'm pretty sure MO will fail complying to this law
Well I wouldn't get your hopes up because A: I doubt it would be retroactive and B: If that was put into law and was worth more than the paper it was written on then Microsoft will be out of business long before the courts get around to Star Vault and as for Funcom .......
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
As much as I hate to say, but this is what gives indy developers a REAL BAD NAME
I have to agree with you. Xsyon is the last indie MMO I am going to purchase. If that does not work out, I am gone from these indie MMOs and only staying with "complete" games and huge companies like EA. At least they release mostly completed games. Nothing like this disaster
I would choose a different MMO to be your last becasue from what I have seen so far Xsyon has less implemented than MO.
*sigh* .........
Xsyon is still in beta, MO is at release. How can you compare the 2 without calling MO a beta?
I too purchased this game way back in block A beta, i expected a fully functional game come release time, however MO is far from release state, its prety awful by my standards. Anyone that wishes to complain about it has every right too. I purchased the game expecting it to be ready for its release.....we all know how that turned out. I got ripped off, Im not complaining mind you, just stating facts.
The majority of the people have already moved on, the only people left defending are the blind fans that ignore all of these problems by calling it "complete"
It's not just fanboys really... You just gave SV money again, I'm sure they appreciated that.
At least the finally updated their FEATURES tab and removed some of the stuff that isn't in game (like the whole god system...building temples.. tearing them down etc).
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I purchased the game back in beta. I tried playing several times thru out beta and realized the game would suck. With all the recent games that promise this and that and have not come thru I don't blame the software companies. It is our fault as consumers. If we continue to buy this crap they will continue to rip people off.
Well the hard line legal issue is that there are very few... if any cases defining what constitiutes a "complete" game and this is very important. As long as no one defines what a compltete game is any legal action taken will be case to case and could have any fallout.
There's an EU law in the making (if not already released) that states that software sold (and the services around it) should be 100 functional and non-buggy. I don't know the complete in's and out's of the law as they're making it, but I'm pretty sure MO will fail complying to this law
100% functional and bug free?
... I think I see why so many people are complaining about MO now... straight-up impossible standards. That law will never pass; if it does, it will be the death of the EU software industry.
Prove me wrong: please name a software dev company that never had a bug in any of their products.
I purchased the game back in beta. I tried playing several times thru out beta and realized the game would suck. With all the recent games that promise this and that and have not come thru I don't blame the software companies. It is our fault as consumers. If we continue to buy this crap they will continue to rip people off.
It's not just fanboys really... You just gave SV money again, I'm sure they appreciated that.
Already got it back, so its all good
Dude that's pretty low, you say that MO is a scam and SV are scammers yet look at what you've done to them ... twice! It just makes me grimmace everytime you rant about how they're scammers and stealing gamers money, I mean you're just as bad as you claim them to be right?
The second time you knew what the game was like and knew you didn't like it but still went ahead, purchased the game then screwed SV for a second time (as I said you would).
Isn't it against the RoC here or something to brag about ripping off an MMORPG company? Still good luck with Xyson, I hope that the developers there have more luck getting you to pay to play their game than SV!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It should not be possible to put a game in this buggy and incomplete state to get released...someone should control that...if this continues soon they will release the engine and you pay to code the game...
Dude that's pretty low, you say that MO is a scam and SV are scammers yet look at what you've done to them ... twice! It just makes me grimmace everytime you rant about how they're scammers and stealing gamers money, I mean you're just as bad as you claim them to be right?
The second time you knew what the game was like and knew you didn't like it but still went ahead, purchased the game then screwed SV for a second time (as I said you would).
Isn't it against the RoC here or something to brag about ripping off an MMORPG company? Still good luck with Xyson, I hope that the developers there have more luck getting you to pay to play their game than SV!
Getting a refund for a PREORDER is different than getting a refund for a RELEASE....
Preorder = it has not come out yet = you are entitled to a refund anyway
It should not be possible to put a game in this buggy and incomplete state to get released...someone should control that...if this continues soon they will release the engine and you pay to code the game...
Well it seems Brad McQuaid is back in business so might actually be seeing this in about 3-5 years depending on how long he can duped the publisher into believing a game exists.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Well the hard line legal issue is that there are very few... if any cases defining what constitiutes a "complete" game and this is very important. As long as no one defines what a compltete game is any legal action taken will be case to case and could have any fallout.
There's an EU law in the making (if not already released) that states that software sold (and the services around it) should be 100 functional and non-buggy. I don't know the complete in's and out's of the law as they're making it, but I'm pretty sure MO will fail complying to this law
100% functional, maybe, but non-buggy? That just won't pass for a law.
MO will pass being 100% functional though. You can run the game with optimal conditions clearly outlined by the developer. You can access their server and you already accepted the server uptime will not be 100%. Being buggy is completely non-relevant.
Legally, you have nothing againts MO. What you are trying to do is a frienly fraud and is considered illegitimate behavior.
I'm truly baffled by some of you though, what could you possibly expect after closed AND open beta? Even going on and purchasing it, again?
It should not be possible to put a game in this buggy and incomplete state to get released...someone should control that...if this continues soon they will release the engine and you pay to code the game...
And the blind fans will still support it for its "potential"
Sad day in the MMO world when Mortal Online released...
Potential should only take you so far. As far as I went with an attempt of hope was a pre-order a year ago. Of course, it was a failed attemp.
After playing a bit, and aside from the constant server crashes, getting stuck on terrain bugs, having my horse literally explode bug, absolutely no tool-tips, lack of insightful in-game informational copywriting, daggers as weapons being worthless, not to mention other lack of balance with weapons, smashing the same 3 mob-types over and over, I feel very detached from my character.
I became even more discoutraged by this game the more I realized I dont feel any connection to my character, dont feel as though I can relate to it, can't visualize it, im in a visual black-out from it, cant appreciate it's movements, its presence or how it looks or interacts in the world.
Maybe, just maybe, the detachment I feel would be much less prevalent if there was actually content in-game and some semblance of completeness with regard to alot of the things that are so often posted about, to help keep me engaged in the game.
Well the hard line legal issue is that there are very few... if any cases defining what constitiutes a "complete" game and this is very important. As long as no one defines what a compltete game is any legal action taken will be case to case and could have any fallout.
There's an EU law in the making (if not already released) that states that software sold (and the services around it) should be 100 functional and non-buggy. I don't know the complete in's and out's of the law as they're making it, but I'm pretty sure MO will fail complying to this law
Then my counter question for such a law is
a: does the companys obligation towards the software end with release.
B: how do you make sure the game is 100%.
I think that law has a snowballs chance in hell...
Also please post me a link to the proposition, i am curious.
Hey now, these are some nice screenshots. I like how they are working on morphing and cloning in this game. I think I will give it a shot after viewing these screens. Looks like a new and fun game.
Hey now, these are some nice screenshots. I like how they are working on morphing and cloning in this game. I think I will give it a shot after viewing these screens. Looks like a new and fun game.
You did not hear? They are going to introduce aliens in the next patch, that will give them a way to defend the multiple NPC spawning bug that they cant get rid of it.
You know what grinds my gears? People using the world "indie" to defend incomplete and broken games. Vanguard was a pos and no one defended it. And it had alot of devs and money.
So if youre sitting in your parents basement smoking weed then turn to your friends and say..."Heyyyyyy lets make a mmorpg!"
And after getting a loan from your parents to start development....you better make a good freaking game. No freaking excuses.
Quit using the word indie as a crutch for releasing crapy games. If you cant make a good game quit dont release trash and want us to buy it!
You know what grinds my gears? People using the world "indie" to defend incomplete and broken games. Vanguard was a pos and no one defended it. And it had alot of devs and money.
So if youre sitting in your parents basement smoking weed then turn to your friends and say..."Heyyyyyy lets make a mmorpg!"
And after getting a loan from your parents to start development....you better make a good freaking game. No freaking excuses.
Quit using the word indie as a crutch for releasing crapy games. If you cant make a good game quit dont release trash and want us to buy it!
I wonder how many of these guys would go to an "indy" doctor, or "indy" dentist.
There is a reason that most good programmers have proper university training, combined with a lot of real-world experience, working their way up from testing, or writing simple code, to developing larger applications. They learn source control, they learn versioning, they learn feature creep, etc etc. All things that the MO team have no idea (quite apparently) how to do, given the state of their game.
Indy isn't an excuse for poor development. And btw, +1 for the Family Guy reference, I LOLed
It's not just fanboys really... You just gave SV money again, I'm sure they appreciated that.
Already got it back, so its all good
Dude that's pretty low, you say that MO is a scam and SV are scammers yet look at what you've done to them ... twice! It just makes me grimmace everytime you rant about how they're scammers and stealing gamers money, I mean you're just as bad as you claim them to be right?
The second time you knew what the game was like and knew you didn't like it but still went ahead, purchased the game then screwed SV for a second time (as I said you would).
Isn't it against the RoC here or something to brag about ripping off an MMORPG company? Still good luck with Xyson, I hope that the developers there have more luck getting you to pay to play their game than SV!
As someone who couldnt stand your NGE posting Agr( a number of other vets fit the same stauts for me as well), I gotta say you are dead on with this one.
I will never understand why someone keeps complaining about a game, or in this case, buying it a 2nd time only to once again ask for a refund.
If you dont like a game, then say what ya will, and move on.
Folks that keep crying "this got changed", or make it their daily chore to run down a game, need to see Dr Phil IMO.
My Dad once told me "getting laid will cure everything from a broken heart to an ingrown toe-nail". Perhaps it would work here as well. :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Comments
Well I wouldn't get your hopes up because A: I doubt it would be retroactive and B: If that was put into law and was worth more than the paper it was written on then Microsoft will be out of business long before the courts get around to Star Vault and as for Funcom .......
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
*sigh* .........
Xsyon is still in beta, MO is at release. How can you compare the 2 without calling MO a beta?
It's not just fanboys really... You just gave SV money again, I'm sure they appreciated that.
At least the finally updated their FEATURES tab and removed some of the stuff that isn't in game (like the whole god system...building temples.. tearing them down etc).
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Already got it back, so its all good
I purchased the game back in beta. I tried playing several times thru out beta and realized the game would suck. With all the recent games that promise this and that and have not come thru I don't blame the software companies. It is our fault as consumers. If we continue to buy this crap they will continue to rip people off.
100% functional and bug free?
... I think I see why so many people are complaining about MO now... straight-up impossible standards. That law will never pass; if it does, it will be the death of the EU software industry.
Prove me wrong: please name a software dev company that never had a bug in any of their products.
Tis true
Dude that's pretty low, you say that MO is a scam and SV are scammers yet look at what you've done to them ... twice! It just makes me grimmace everytime you rant about how they're scammers and stealing gamers money, I mean you're just as bad as you claim them to be right?
The second time you knew what the game was like and knew you didn't like it but still went ahead, purchased the game then screwed SV for a second time (as I said you would).
Isn't it against the RoC here or something to brag about ripping off an MMORPG company? Still good luck with Xyson, I hope that the developers there have more luck getting you to pay to play their game than SV!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
It should not be possible to put a game in this buggy and incomplete state to get released...someone should control that...if this continues soon they will release the engine and you pay to code the game...
Getting a refund for a PREORDER is different than getting a refund for a RELEASE....
Preorder = it has not come out yet = you are entitled to a refund anyway
Well it seems Brad McQuaid is back in business so might actually be seeing this in about 3-5 years depending on how long he can duped the publisher into believing a game exists.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
100% functional, maybe, but non-buggy? That just won't pass for a law.
MO will pass being 100% functional though. You can run the game with optimal conditions clearly outlined by the developer. You can access their server and you already accepted the server uptime will not be 100%. Being buggy is completely non-relevant.
Legally, you have nothing againts MO. What you are trying to do is a frienly fraud and is considered illegitimate behavior.
I'm truly baffled by some of you though, what could you possibly expect after closed AND open beta? Even going on and purchasing it, again?
For the record, I only played open beta.
Potential should only take you so far. As far as I went with an attempt of hope was a pre-order a year ago. Of course, it was a failed attemp.
After playing a bit, and aside from the constant server crashes, getting stuck on terrain bugs, having my horse literally explode bug, absolutely no tool-tips, lack of insightful in-game informational copywriting, daggers as weapons being worthless, not to mention other lack of balance with weapons, smashing the same 3 mob-types over and over, I feel very detached from my character.
I became even more discoutraged by this game the more I realized I dont feel any connection to my character, dont feel as though I can relate to it, can't visualize it, im in a visual black-out from it, cant appreciate it's movements, its presence or how it looks or interacts in the world.
Maybe, just maybe, the detachment I feel would be much less prevalent if there was actually content in-game and some semblance of completeness with regard to alot of the things that are so often posted about, to help keep me engaged in the game.
I made the mistake of paying for MO too. I will be filling a payment dispute with my Bank in the morning and fully expect to get my money back.
I'm not a troll I just don't like paying for something that does not work.
I didn't pay much attention in here, because there are indeed a high number of trolls. However, maybe the trolls were just right in this case.
Then my counter question for such a law is
a: does the companys obligation towards the software end with release.
B: how do you make sure the game is 100%.
I think that law has a snowballs chance in hell...
Also please post me a link to the proposition, i am curious.
This have been a good conversation
Hey now, these are some nice screenshots. I like how they are working on morphing and cloning in this game. I think I will give it a shot after viewing these screens. Looks like a new and fun game.
You did not hear? They are going to introduce aliens in the next patch, that will give them a way to defend the multiple NPC spawning bug that they cant get rid of it.
Good call.
I hope the 350th miracle patch MO is releasing tuesday fixes ALL of the bugs, I couldn't imagine them releasing a game with all of incompleteness!
Please stay on the topic of the thread.
You know what grinds my gears? People using the world "indie" to defend incomplete and broken games. Vanguard was a pos and no one defended it. And it had alot of devs and money.
So if youre sitting in your parents basement smoking weed then turn to your friends and say..."Heyyyyyy lets make a mmorpg!"
And after getting a loan from your parents to start development....you better make a good freaking game. No freaking excuses.
Quit using the word indie as a crutch for releasing crapy games. If you cant make a good game quit dont release trash and want us to buy it!
I wonder how many of these guys would go to an "indy" doctor, or "indy" dentist.
There is a reason that most good programmers have proper university training, combined with a lot of real-world experience, working their way up from testing, or writing simple code, to developing larger applications. They learn source control, they learn versioning, they learn feature creep, etc etc. All things that the MO team have no idea (quite apparently) how to do, given the state of their game.
Indy isn't an excuse for poor development. And btw, +1 for the Family Guy reference, I LOLed
This game is going to be great when it's finally fixed and running smoothly ............... in a couple years.
As someone who couldnt stand your NGE posting Agr( a number of other vets fit the same stauts for me as well), I gotta say you are dead on with this one.
I will never understand why someone keeps complaining about a game, or in this case, buying it a 2nd time only to once again ask for a refund.
If you dont like a game, then say what ya will, and move on.
Folks that keep crying "this got changed", or make it their daily chore to run down a game, need to see Dr Phil IMO.
My Dad once told me "getting laid will cure everything from a broken heart to an ingrown toe-nail". Perhaps it would work here as well. :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Haha this bug still isn't fixed, amazing. The game has it's highs and it's lows unfortunately too many lows.