Also consider the games that have EVER been called a scam.
There are only three that come to mind.
Mourning, Entropia online, Second Life.
(also dawn but wasn't that more of a hoax? did they actually GET anything... I have no idea)
Entropia online and second life share something in common, they use real currency for in game currency, so some call these games scams as they go directly for your money.
Mourning as far as anyone knows does not fall in that category. So reallyits a fair thing to say say that mourning being called a scam is a first for a game of its kind.
To cry out against scam posts suggest its a common occurrence to games in general. Consider that these ideas focus on a specific game... What you are asking is for the moderation of a certain belief about a certain game.
If you desire to see this moderation, specifically mourning... I suggest you visit the official site as they are zealots in that regard.
Since you wanted me to look it up here is what slander means: "defamatory oral statements" The definition of defamatory is "communication to third parties of false statements about a person that injure the reputation of or deter others from associating with that person." Since I am communicating to third parties about a product that I have never played for the intent to injure the reputation of WoW and to keep people from associating with the game, then it seems to fit with the definition of slander. I mention this only to show that slander is an opinion! An opinions can be slanderous. That is why the courts almost never get involved in cases of slander and only slightly more in cases of libel. Further in the ACLU vs Reno in 1996 the Supreme Court ruled that the internet is a global communication medium. That is it is to be considered as and protected as freedom of speach. As such those who provide a medium for the communication are not to be held civily or criminally accountable for actions of those who use the medium. If you cannot hold the city responsible for what people say on the public street you cannot hold those who provide a medium responsible for what people use the medium for. So I assume your theory is that there is a harm from a lie that mmorpg knows is a lie hence that harm requires action. So harm is your standard of morality. But hopefully you can see just on the surface how complicated that can be and how it will not solve any issues because off all the questions you leave unanswered.
Definitely my last post on this.
You say slander is a form of opinion - that's obvious. But not all opinions are slander. That's the distinction i'm making in the methods the mods should use to police the fourms.
Not sure about US law on the internet. I live in the UK. Tort law in the UK is fairly complex and there are no special rules applying to the internet.
In order to justify your statement in terms of morality you would need to establish that there is a damage to a game's customer base. That those statements are lies. That mmorpg knows or ought to know that they are lies.
That's exactly what i am saying. Just because its complicated doesn't mean its wrong. Exactly why i think these posts should be better handled.
Yawn......the attempt on the part of unhappy Mourning fans to ferment discontent within this community is thinly disquised in this thread. But I do not fault the moderators for allowing the poster to express their opinion even though the allegation that mmorpg.com is culpable for libelous injury by being poorly moderated could itself be considered libelous.
Someone stop the madness.....gratuitous assertions expressed in an internet forum receive the attention they deserve.......denounciation by reasonable people, not law suit. It is for the weak-willed and unbalanced that redress by "authority" is espoused in order to suppress unfavorable opinions. "Please Mommy-moderators, make them stop, they are saying mean things about me." Simple solution? Quit reading forums
The weight of opinion within this community is clearly not in stav1's favor. My opinion....slam dunk for JulianDracos.
Unfortunately dsorrent, the wording of your "poll" carries alot of editorial content. IMHO, it would be better served with the deletion of the "Defenders of Free Speech" reference....that is unless your intent was editorial.
STAV1 - My Gawd get a damn grip dude. I know you are hurt and in total despair because your game (or idea of a game anyhow) is in total ruins and everyone and their brother knows this by now.
You need to get a grip and move on with life dude. To be claiming that mmorpg.com's mods are horrible mods or are liable or responsible for Mournings demise in any way, shape, or form is ridiuculous at best and complete insanity at worst.
I had high hopes for Mourning too, but my gosh dude, atleast I didnt have rose-colored glasses like you obviously still have on. I could see the writing on the wall several months ago, and I made my points very obvious on these boards. And everytime you came screaming in my threads that I was a dope and needed to stop saying that Mourning was gonna be nothing more then a huge disappointment. Which is exactly what I tried to say a long time ago. You wouldn't have it. And you still refuse to know the facts. That Mourning is one of the most horrid mmorpg developments ever. All it takes is to glance once at their chaotic forums to see this. The way their own devs run their boards reminds me of Hitler for crying out loud.
So bash me for ruining Mourning all you want. I know it's ALL my fault that the game is nothing more then a steaming pile of poop. Has nothing to do with the great "gods" that live in Romania supposedly making this worlds next great wonder of a game. I know. Cry some more dude. But get off the mods of this websites back for not moderating people like me. Uh huh. It's ALL my fault the game won't ever be a success, or even released for that matter.
Talk about fanboys. Geez. I just wanna know how you get to be such a raging fanboy of a game you never played or even seen a live in game video of fo that matter?
Freedom of speech. The same freedom that you have to come on these public boards bashing the mods of these forums for not protecting your great game is the same freedom used by many others to say that your great game isn't quite so great. What's so hard to understand about that? You are as responsible for any "grave damage" done to these boards for your accusations (laugh) as anyone else is for their accusations against your beloved game, Mourning.
Enough is enough. Get over it man. Mourning is vaporware and a very possible scam at worst and a crappy game at best. Find a new game. But get over this spilk milk of a game that is Mourning.
Putting Mourning aside i have to agree: There is a problem with mods on this boards. You say you let everyone post their opinion. Good idea.
Now take a look at MMORPG.COM boards and what they became lately. It's a stupid flamefest. The boards are filled with misinformation and fanboi threads. I can't even coun the WoW versus "enter name of game here" threads. What are you guys thinking? These threads should be deleted or locked.
It's very hard to find any useful information within all that crap that's posted here.
You say you let everyone post his opinion but what we have as result is almost unmoderated boards.
Well I had to stop for a second from shoving hot cross buns in my face this morning to respond. Only for a second though, the buns are too licky to leave for long.
Stav I know you have invested a lot of energy and credibility in Mourning and attaching DnL to your argument does nothing to obfuscate the real reason for you disapointment and this post.
Many of the members of this forum tried to warn you about rushing headlong into pre-orders and rabid defence of a product that had so little going for it and so much going against it. You chose the path through that advice that you felt best suited you.
I think its pretty rich of you to now come here and try and turn your personal disapointment with Mourning into a general attack on MMORPG.com, its community and its administrators.
If you are a lawyer then you know as well as the rest of us (better I hope) that facts and facts alone are what makes and breaks arguments and disagreements in and out of court. The FACT is that none of us outside the Mourning and MMORPG.com administration know exactly why this situation has come about. You are guessing as much now as you were when you pre-ordered the game so many weeks ago, against the warnings of over a dozen people. People who expressed a genuine concern for your cash and your credibility.
Im really surprised that someone who knows so little about the realities behind the final decisions to remove Mourning from these forums can speak so vehemently on the topic. Again I say to you it is the same train of thought that got you caught up in this in the first place.
As for "moral obligations", well in case you havnt noticed the world is choc full of people who can not agree on what a moral obligation is. What we all agree on is that we see these things from our own points of view. Personally I like to leave the job of attempting to force my personal values on others, to those that do it best, religious folks, politicians and the critically grandure deluded.
I am certain that MMORPG.com is capable of managing its own legal affairs. I would only say to you that if you are so genuinely concerned about their situation and the content of these forums then you should send them you card and offer to act for them in a legal advisory capacity, or that you apply to become a moderator.
Failing that I dont see how you can hope to control the content of this site by veiled scare tactics and verbal swords of damocles, when it is pretty clear its not having an effect.
My full support to MMORPG.com and to all forums that allow rational discussion and tolerate fringe opinion. For at the end of the day it is ONLY OPINION.
Saying that you think X-game is a scam is just an opinion, if you post it and your wrong, you look stupid, if you post it and your right, you look cool. Thats the whole situation summed up. There is nothing beyond that save what the respondents make of it. In Mourning's case they chose to fashion a mountain from a tiny little molehill, no one did it for them.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Comments
Also consider the games that have EVER been called a scam.
There are only three that come to mind.
Mourning, Entropia online, Second Life.
(also dawn but wasn't that more of a hoax? did they actually GET anything... I have no idea)
Entropia online and second life share something in common, they use real currency for in game currency, so some call these games scams as they go directly for your money.
Mourning as far as anyone knows does not fall in that category. So reallyits a fair thing to say say that mourning being called a scam is a first for a game of its kind.
To cry out against scam posts suggest its a common occurrence to games in general. Consider that these ideas focus on a specific game... What you are asking is for the moderation of a certain belief about a certain game.
If you desire to see this moderation, specifically mourning... I suggest you visit the official site as they are zealots in that regard.
Definitely my last post on this.
You say slander is a form of opinion - that's obvious. But not all opinions are slander. That's the distinction i'm making in the methods the mods should use to police the fourms.
Not sure about US law on the internet. I live in the UK. Tort law in the UK is fairly complex and there are no special rules applying to the internet.
In order to justify your statement in terms of morality you would need to establish that there is a damage to a game's customer base. That those statements are lies. That mmorpg knows or ought to know that they are lies.
That's exactly what i am saying. Just because its complicated doesn't mean its wrong. Exactly why i think these posts should be better handled.
Yawn......the attempt on the part of unhappy Mourning fans to ferment discontent within this community is thinly disquised in this thread. But I do not fault the moderators for allowing the poster to express their opinion even though the allegation that mmorpg.com is culpable for libelous injury by being poorly moderated could itself be considered libelous.
Someone stop the madness.....gratuitous assertions expressed in an internet forum receive the attention they deserve.......denounciation by reasonable people, not law suit. It is for the weak-willed and unbalanced that redress by "authority" is espoused in order to suppress unfavorable opinions. "Please Mommy-moderators, make them stop, they are saying mean things about me." Simple solution? Quit reading forums
The weight of opinion within this community is clearly not in stav1's favor. My opinion....slam dunk for JulianDracos.
Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, how do you rule on the case as stated above:
STAV1 - My Gawd get a damn grip dude. I know you are hurt and in total despair because your game (or idea of a game anyhow) is in total ruins and everyone and their brother knows this by now.
You need to get a grip and move on with life dude. To be claiming that mmorpg.com's mods are horrible mods or are liable or responsible for Mournings demise in any way, shape, or form is ridiuculous at best and complete insanity at worst.
I had high hopes for Mourning too, but my gosh dude, atleast I didnt have rose-colored glasses like you obviously still have on. I could see the writing on the wall several months ago, and I made my points very obvious on these boards. And everytime you came screaming in my threads that I was a dope and needed to stop saying that Mourning was gonna be nothing more then a huge disappointment. Which is exactly what I tried to say a long time ago. You wouldn't have it. And you still refuse to know the facts. That Mourning is one of the most horrid mmorpg developments ever. All it takes is to glance once at their chaotic forums to see this. The way their own devs run their boards reminds me of Hitler for crying out loud.
So bash me for ruining Mourning all you want. I know it's ALL my fault that the game is nothing more then a steaming pile of poop. Has nothing to do with the great "gods" that live in Romania supposedly making this worlds next great wonder of a game. I know. Cry some more dude. But get off the mods of this websites back for not moderating people like me. Uh huh. It's ALL my fault the game won't ever be a success, or even released for that matter.
Talk about fanboys. Geez. I just wanna know how you get to be such a raging fanboy of a game you never played or even seen a live in game video of fo that matter?
Freedom of speech. The same freedom that you have to come on these public boards bashing the mods of these forums for not protecting your great game is the same freedom used by many others to say that your great game isn't quite so great. What's so hard to understand about that? You are as responsible for any "grave damage" done to these boards for your accusations (laugh) as anyone else is for their accusations against your beloved game, Mourning.
Enough is enough. Get over it man. Mourning is vaporware and a very possible scam at worst and a crappy game at best. Find a new game. But get over this spilk milk of a game that is Mourning.
- Zaxx
Putting Mourning aside i have to agree: There is a problem with mods on this boards.
You say you let everyone post their opinion. Good idea.
Now take a look at MMORPG.COM boards and what they became lately. It's a stupid flamefest. The boards are filled with misinformation and fanboi threads. I can't even coun the WoW versus "enter name of game here" threads.
What are you guys thinking? These threads should be deleted or locked.
It's very hard to find any useful information within all that crap that's posted here.
You say you let everyone post his opinion but what we have as result is almost unmoderated boards.
Happy Easter everyone!
Well I had to stop for a second from shoving hot cross buns in my face this morning to respond. Only for a second though, the buns are too licky to leave for long.
Stav I know you have invested a lot of energy and credibility in Mourning and attaching DnL to your argument does nothing to obfuscate the real reason for you disapointment and this post.
Many of the members of this forum tried to warn you about rushing headlong into pre-orders and rabid defence of a product that had so little going for it and so much going against it. You chose the path through that advice that you felt best suited you.
I think its pretty rich of you to now come here and try and turn your personal disapointment with Mourning into a general attack on MMORPG.com, its community and its administrators.
If you are a lawyer then you know as well as the rest of us (better I hope) that facts and facts alone are what makes and breaks arguments and disagreements in and out of court. The FACT is that none of us outside the Mourning and MMORPG.com administration know exactly why this situation has come about. You are guessing as much now as you were when you pre-ordered the game so many weeks ago, against the warnings of over a dozen people. People who expressed a genuine concern for your cash and your credibility.
Im really surprised that someone who knows so little about the realities behind the final decisions to remove Mourning from these forums can speak so vehemently on the topic. Again I say to you it is the same train of thought that got you caught up in this in the first place.
As for "moral obligations", well in case you havnt noticed the world is choc full of people who can not agree on what a moral obligation is. What we all agree on is that we see these things from our own points of view. Personally I like to leave the job of attempting to force my personal values on others, to those that do it best, religious folks, politicians and the critically grandure deluded.
I am certain that MMORPG.com is capable of managing its own legal affairs. I would only say to you that if you are so genuinely concerned about their situation and the content of these forums then you should send them you card and offer to act for them in a legal advisory capacity, or that you apply to become a moderator.
Failing that I dont see how you can hope to control the content of this site by veiled scare tactics and verbal swords of damocles, when it is pretty clear its not having an effect.
My full support to MMORPG.com and to all forums that allow rational discussion and tolerate fringe opinion. For at the end of the day it is ONLY OPINION.
Saying that you think X-game is a scam is just an opinion, if you post it and your wrong, you look stupid, if you post it and your right, you look cool. Thats the whole situation summed up. There is nothing beyond that save what the respondents make of it. In Mourning's case they chose to fashion a mountain from a tiny little molehill, no one did it for them.
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon