I love how Dave Jones claims that he expected mixed reviews because "It's always hard when you create something new as it requires a natural learning curve. Also because APB is online multi-player focused, it's best played as intended, with 60 to 100 people in the city with you."
and completely misses the main reasons why the game scored badly in both reviews:
1. Poor shooting mechanics
2. Poor driving mechanics
3. Poor mission concepts, you can't walk in a bank to rob it or take hostages etc, missions are to repetitive and not immersive at all. The only way you interact with the environment is by pressing F on objectives...
4. The matchmaking feature which gives you a mission 1000 meters away while your opposition is already securing the objectives or gives you enemies with upgraded weapons while you have none. Have I mentioned that weapon upgrade system is a complete failure as well ? It actually gives you damage, range, accuracy advantage in...a shooting game ?
These are the flaws which few reasonable people in beta were pointing out all the time and hardly anything has been done. Poor shooting mechanics is in my opinion the biggest flaw. The guns are characterised by poor range, accuracy, damage and often rate of fire. They just don't feel autentic enough.
Your chances to win/lose a fire fight depend mostly on who manages to get his opponent is the optimal range of his gun. If you ever decide to give the game a try, you will find yourself in situations when you shot a guy from a semi-automatic rifle 3 times in his back and he will spin around and take you down. In contrast if you play CoD: Modern Warfare and find yourself in disadvantage inside a small buidling agaist a guy with a SMG while you have G3 your chances of wining this fight are almost completely depended from yours and his player skill.
In APB combat there is simply not enough player skill involved. The devs claim it was done on purpose to make the game accessible to people who are not good at shooter games and to create a tactical based game play, but it hurts the game experience more then helps. You seriously don't need to turn guns in water pistols to make the game experience to feel tactical. Most of the time in APB you shot so it would be nice if that part of the game would meet the shooter game standards.
Furthermore the game offers less content then a good FPS and asks for a monthly sub. Just make a fast comparison: APB against Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare. Those two titles offer actually more guns and combat upgrades then APB with a sub. All packed with superior combat/shooting mechanics, higher quality lag free local dedicated servers and higher number of opponents per average match.
Some people will say: but what the customisation ? Tell me how many average action/FPS gamers give a flying duck about the colour of they lances ? I admit it can be a fun feature, but it doesn't really add up with an average FPS gamer expectations. Just don't tell me that APB which 90 % of content is a drive by shooting game is not aimed that those players.
100 000 per game world ? So what you still have only 100 per instance and in fact maximum only 20 involved in few missions. Most of the time you will spend in 4vr4 skirmishes. Leagues, leader boards ? Any active gaming community has those. Have you ever tried clan based combat and joining a FPS game league ?
1) This ones easy. He didn't mention anything about the shooting mechanics because there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They are how they wanted them to be and they work.
What the review meant to say is he would prefer hit boxes and such, and that he would prefer a cover system that allows for drawn out I'm invincible type shoot outs.
This doesn't equal a flaw. This is just someone wanting it there way just because.
Now in MMO's (small multiplayer games don't have this problem) multiple hitboxes increase stress on the server for one. Then unlike small multiplayer shooters, this game has a large living world, not some empty map for you and 31 other players. There's traffic, NPC's walking around town, and atm I think 79 other players besides you. Not to mention the player vehicles.
Thats just issue one with multiple hitboxes. Planet side didn't have them either.
Now on to issue 2, this is something I've noticed from playing. Whether you have perfect aim, or if you have an aim bot, that won't equate to a win. The shooting mechanics limit this in a number of ways. For one, there isn't any "Head shot, I win!" crap going on. Number 2, weapons all have different ranges where they are effective and miss more often than not when outside there effective range. Same goes for automatic weapons, the longer you spray the more off the shots get.
Not only does this make game play a bit more strategic, it also limits how effective aim bots are. Just because your the best shooter, or using an aim bot, it doesn't mean you will be guaranteed a win.
This is also in line with what the Devs wanted. They wanted something more akin to paint ball than CS, which they have stated.
So.... no, there isn't a problem with the shooting mechanics. It's a problem with the reviewer and it looks like you as well, simply wanting things done your way.
If the reviewer had stated he simply preferred a different take on the shooting, thats one thing. But, thats not what he said lol.
2) The driving mechanics are excellent. I love the drift style driving. Going faster and faster makes turning harder, but you have one of the better hand break mechanics that I've seen in a game making power sliding or drifting work better than I've seen it done in many offline games.
If you can't handle the higher performance cars, stick with slower cars with better handling and grip. I love my little jeep. It's got awsome acceleration and grip. The top speed is a bit low, and the handling on it is a bit harder than most cars (Yes, each car is different) but the acceleration and grip making it a killer Financial district vehicle with all those nice little alley ways and stair wells that it's small enough to fit down. Driving inside a building and running over some criminals that freak out and don't know what to do when they see your vehicle coming at them at high speed is just priceless.
I mean if you want to see a game with a horrible driving mechanic check out Need for Speed world. Thats worth complaining about.
But the driving mechanics in APB work well and are pretty much perfect imho. It's like Burnout meets Tokyo Drift. or Need for Speed underground.
That to me equates to win.
3) Yes there could be more mission types. But even robbing a bank would break down into one of the same types of missions we have now. I mean seriously dude........ think before you post.
Step 1) Break in (we have this), step 2) Defend (We have this). Step 3) Escape (We have this)
Guess what, thats actually is exactly like missions we already have.
We could use more, but thats the case with any MMO.
And as far as pressing F goes.......... whats wrong with that? Why is it a problem having to push F to interact with different things in the world? Is you F key missing? Do you not know how to rebind it to something else?
I mean dude this is pretty standard though. In a lot of MMO's you either hit enter to interact with the limited amount of things in the world that you can actually interact with, or space bar, or right click.
Pretty much every MMO uses 1 interaction button. I'm failing to see a problem here. Heck most single player games use 1 interaction button. This allows for the other buttons to be used for other things.
How is the friggin F key to interact with the world a problem? Please explain because this seems nothing more than nit picky.
4) Matchmaking could use some work, but it's far from the horrific issue you tried to make it out to be. It needs some slight tweaking at most lol. Yes, when you accept a mission it can be 1000m away some times. The thing is, thats just one objective. Most missions have multiple objectives. The winner is the one that completes the final objective. So you always have a chance except for on rare occasions when you join a backup mission and it's already almost over by the time you get it.
Also... you complain about how you can get pitted up against someone that has an upgraded weapon....... you do realize that if you (someone without an upgraded weapon) gets pitted up against someone with an upgraded weapon you get to call for backup, unless of course you have a higher threat rating or w/e it's called because of your personal upgrades etc.
I've been up against people with much higher rep and such. They had some fully decked out weapons. But it's pretty much always been me and 2-3 others against them.
1 vs. 3 or 1 vs. 4 seems more than enough compensation for being put up against a guy with an upgraded weapon.
And yes... you can upgrade your weapon. It is an MMO so there has to be some form of advancement. But thankfully unlike every other MMO, in APB that advancement gives only a slight advantage. The game still resolves primarily around player skill, tactics and strategy. Those win battles, you won't win many battles just because you have more ammo or range in your gun, or even dmg.
The rest of your post is fairly meaningless and deserves to be ignored without a response. But I will say this, your biggest mistake was comparing an MMO with single player or small multiplayer games. Once you did that, your post is meaningless because If I compare FF10 to FFXI, guess which one had better graphics, mechanics, etc, etc, etc, FF10. Guess which I played longer though........... FFXI.
Comparing MMO's to non MMO's is like comparing a Saturn's gas mileage to a bus. You can say the bus sucks because it uses 100x more gas, but your intentionally leaving out that it carries a ton more people.
Edited to Add: I'd actually like to see a review about APB and not this continued complaining about how it isn't like off line shooters or small map lobby shooters, or how it isn't like your typical fantasy/scifi MMORPG.
I already know it's different, I like it partly because it's different. Quit complaining about how it's different and review the game on it's merits.
Does it work? Is it fun? Is it well done? What's the experience like? Hows the learning curve?
You know.... make the review informative, and not some whine fest about how the game isn't like Counter Strike or WoW.
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Which of those is an MMO?
APB is the best shooter MMO we have. Simple as that
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Which of those is an MMO?
APB is the best shooter MMO we have. Simple as that
I wouldn't call 4v4 or at most 8v8 an MMO, it's more a large scale lobby you can somewhat interact with other people in while you wait for missions and so forth.
And the few who truly does like it, and can have fun in a mediocre game with little content, great for you, stop defending the game and go play it...
Good games doesn't need to be defended.
Though i have bashed Global agenda in the past, I'd recommend it to everyone who is thinking about APB... Go play Global agenda instead, it is now completly sub free, the game has moved to the buisness model of Guild wars: Pay Per Expansion.
And with big expansions already announced, with big open world, I wouldn't rule out Global Agenda just yet.
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Which of those is an MMO?
APB is the best shooter MMO we have. Simple as that
I wouldn't call 4v4 or at most 8v8 an MMO, it's more a large scale lobby you can somewhat interact with other people in while you wait for missions and so forth.
The first M is for Massively, not Micro.
And there we have it.... the root of your problem has been discovered. You either haven't played APB or don't know what an MMO is. With your lobby reference it's a safe bet that both are true.
Lobby is fairly non interactive. There is not persistent world, you play different maps with friends, clan mates or random players. APB is a far cry from a lobby.
The world is teeming with activity and other players, and it's persistent. There are things to do outside of missions and whether or not you are in direct conflict with other players you do interact with them and are aware that they are there.
Driving down the streets of the financial district or waterfront can lead you into head on collisions with other players. Other players are witnessing you committing crimes and being sent out on missions after you.
While the world is instanced like many MMO's now days, CO, STO, AoC, yes... even WoW has the instanced dungeons and etc., inside that instance are a large number of players. That server can hold 100k players I believe the devs said. You will run into the same people as well as new people all the time.
And the key that makes this an MMO and not a lobby is that all these people are doing there own thing in game independent of you. Some are ram raiding stores, others are witnessing crimes, some are mugging civilians, some are stealing cars and turning them in for cash, taking on missions that take place in this world that pits them against other players. Some are even out hunting down bounties and others are engaging in player run races.
See all this is going on all around you WHILE you do your own thing.
This is an MMO.
A Lobby is where you sit around and wait on queue's or select a map to play a short round in. In that map there's nothing but you and the other players. Nothing to do but that set objective. When ii's over, you select a different map or return to the lobby.
You may not call APB an MMO, but it is an MMO. You not calling it one doesn't change the fact that it is one lol.
Regardless of what you wish to believe, it is what it is lol. Or as a great poet once said "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.".
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Which of those is an MMO?
APB is the best shooter MMO we have. Simple as that
I wouldn't call 4v4 or at most 8v8 an MMO, it's more a large scale lobby you can somewhat interact with other people in while you wait for missions and so forth.
The first M is for Massively, not Micro.
And there we have it.... the root of your problem has been discovered. You either haven't played APB or don't know what an MMO is. With your lobby reference it's a safe bet that both are true.
Lobby is fairly non interactive. There is not persistent world, you play different maps with friends, clan mates or random players. APB is a far cry from a lobby.
The world is teeming with activity and other players, and it's persistent. There are things to do outside of missions and whether or not you are in direct conflict with other players you do interact with them and are aware that they are there.
Driving down the streets of the financial district or waterfront can lead you into head on collisions with other players. Other players are witnessing you committing crimes and being sent out on missions after you.
While the world is instanced like many MMO's now days, CO, STO, AoC, yes... even WoW has the instanced dungeons and etc., inside that instance are a large number of players. That server can hold 100k players I believe the devs said. You will run into the same people as well as new people all the time.
And the key that makes this an MMO and not a lobby is that all these people are doing there own thing in game independent of you. Some are ram raiding stores, others are witnessing crimes, some are mugging civilians, some are stealing cars and turning them in for cash, taking on missions that take place in this world that pits them against other players. Some are even out hunting down bounties and others are engaging in player run races.
See all this is going on all around you WHILE you do your own thing.
This is an MMO.
A Lobby is where you sit around and wait on queue's or select a map to play a short round in. In that map there's nothing but you and the other players. Nothing to do but that set objective. When ii's over, you select a different map or return to the lobby.
You may not call APB an MMO, but it is an MMO. You not calling it one doesn't change the fact that it is one lol.
Regardless of what you wish to believe, it is what it is lol. Or as a great poet once said "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.".
I've been playing APB nearly non-stop with some friends since the game released (Pre-order release) and I still stand by my statement in regards to how I feel about APB being an "MMO", don't jump to conclusions so fast lest you blind yourself. This is all a matter of opinion, and mine is this if you must have greater details behind my thoughts on the matter.
MMO - MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE
APB covers both the MULTIPLAYER and ONLINE aspect of the phrase just fine, however the MASSIVE part leaves a lot to be desired since there are no larger groups than four people unless you so happen to get backup leading to a possible four more; eight people on a team making the total sixteen overall on any given mission is no larger than even console shooter games. Can you interact with other players in all the districts? Yes, in any meaningful way beyond to grief them? No. MASSIVE to me as a word in terms of an MMO also requires there to be massive amounts of ways to interact and play with other people, APB does not allow that and like GA (Global Agenda) it promotes small groups, not larger ones you'd find playing any normal MMO. Yes, there is a clan system and clan rewards, but even so you're not as a clan working together on the goals... you're more an individual working on the same goal as everyone else.
The districts are a LOBBY in disguise, just think about it and it becomes obvious. Yes, there are things to do in the districts when not on a mission, but hell all that really matters is the PVP in the end.
I'm tired and will continue this post later if I must. Long story short I love the game.... but they shouldn't use the term MMO for a game where there is little player interaction beyond griefing and shit talking the guy who just killed you. I've not in over 90+ hours of playing ever seen the sical district used for actual "socialization", that sums up my point nicely too.
I don't know, me and my four buddies fending off waves of 4+ people as notoriety 5 criminals is pretty hilarious. I think everyone here is missing out on having their notoriety/(whatever the enforcers have) maxed so that EVERYONE can kill you. It then becomes how long you can survive and fend off waves upon waves of people coming to murder you for your extra cash and faction points. Last night we survived for 22 minutes with waves of people coming at us, sometimes as many as 10 at a time. Was great fun.
So I recently found the complete unbuilded (meaning the code is there in plain view) version of the game (client side of course....though a friend of mine said the chinese are working at cloning the server side haha). I was particularly interested in the customization parts and the driving.
in all my years i have never seen more clunky coding. its as if 10 different people just randomly merged their code and came up with a mess. it reeks of poor management and for a game that was in development for 5 YEARS, im incredibly impressed at such a terrible job. Their excuses for not having a good shooting system are obvious: their character structure DOESNT ALLOW FOR IT! want me to make this clearer? they put a box around the entire character and that is the striking range....
oh and the reason the load times suck is because your comp has to download everyone else's customized shit and apply it to the models loaded in your comp.
also how does a game of this magnitude not have good weapon mechanics?
if you buy this game, you just handed your money to a bunch of lazy idiots.
funny you guys think APB is bad... you should see how bad NFS: World is
I tell ya I would pay to play MotorCity Online if EA brought the servers back, but even free to play I won't be playing NFS: World cause its just a POS game.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Which of those is an MMO?
APB is the best shooter MMO we have. Simple as that
Just because its an mmo, doesn't mean I have to lower my standards and expectations when it comes to what I expect from a 3rd person shooter. And neither should anyone else. The combat, driving and UI just feel extremly clunky and unituitive to me.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Reviews i learned not to trust. I played the game myself for a brief time, and while it was probably too short to get a proper grasp of it, i can safely say it didn't felt as worth the subscription fee yet.
While all the technical things can be fixed and should be as soon as possible, the game itself suffered from a lack of finished idea. So we have GTA-like setting with cops and crims, car driving, guns, and all the good stuff, and yet it feels empty, void of anything more than just running from one mission spot to another.
The world itself felt dead outside of the mission scenarios, anything you do in between them seems to not matter much at all, the supposedly persistant world is just an illlusion and excuse. Simply put, the gameplay felt slow. Outside of missions there is nothing, oh sure you can stand on the corner at look at others having fun, but that gets old pretty fast. Why, as a criminal, i cant pick up a sweet spot somewhere and just annoy the hell out of the cops? Why as a cop i cant just get into pursuit of someone that obviously brakes the law. Instead, i have to pick up a mission, and be stuck in that mission for overly long time.
The concept fails to show me how it is a MMO worth paying a fee.
I think, despite all the bad words Global Agenda recieved, it at least tried to do things right. They didn't ask for payment prior to releasing actual content for the game, and eventually decided that their game is not actually a product that can fairly deserve the fee. APB faces similar problem, the lack of the the actual MMO content makes it a fun game, that i will have to pass on, due to simple fact i can get pretty much same expierience from buy2play games.
Add shooting mechanics ) We won't agree here that's for sure. People who like softcore Battefield: BC2 would cry about the weapon characteristics, range, accuracy and damage in APB. I don't even mention things like limited range of view and bullets disappearing after 100 meters. I say it again, APB is an action game / shooter in the core so it suppose to cater to players who enjoy this kind of entertainment. It fails to deliver the quality of such a title. There is no tactics, strategy in this, it is all about damage per second and optimal range. Can you give us details about weapon ranges and damage drop ? I am sure any shooter gamer interested in APB will find them pathetic. There is no place for player skill at all. You want it or not player skill and team play is the core of any good shooter. Please don't use paintball comparison, because paintball has nothing to do with APB. As long you don't play it with some kind of weird rule-set, one hit in paintball means one kill. In APB you will find yourself amazed by targets walking away with amount of bullets which would kill five people not just one. Balance between semi-automatic weapons, fully automatic rifles, SMGs, pistols and shotguns is all about: you win because you are in your optimal range when you opponent is not. I am a strongly FPS oriented player and I found that really frustrating.
Add driving mechanics ) I personally didn't have a huge problem with it, even with the fastest cars, but the problem is there and a lot of people won't like it.
Please the don't ignore the core problem with APB by saying that the rest of my post is not worthy answering. Answer two question: What does APB offer except character customization which can't be delivered by any AAA quality shooter / action game ? Do you really think it is worth the sub ? I don't and that's the main reason why the game doesn't cut it for me.
Originally posted by theinhibitor So I recently found the complete unbuilded (meaning the code is there in plain view) version of the game (client side of course....though a friend of mine said the chinese are working at cloning the server side haha). I was particularly interested in the customization parts and the driving. in all my years i have never seen more clunky coding. its as if 10 different people just randomly merged their code and came up with a mess. it reeks of poor management and for a game that was in development for 5 YEARS, im incredibly impressed at such a terrible job. Their excuses for not having a good shooting system are obvious: their character structure DOESNT ALLOW FOR IT! want me to make this clearer? they put a box around the entire character and that is the striking range.... oh and the reason the load times suck is because your comp has to download everyone else's customized shit and apply it to the models loaded in your comp. also how does a game of this magnitude not have good weapon mechanics? if you buy this game, you just handed your money to a bunch of lazy idiots.
You are full of shit. Customization is just a string and recreated in the buffer on the local client, and its not even done during load time, as evidenced by when you first load in, most people look like the defuilt model.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I am having a blast in this game. I guess it is because of the clan I started that has 30+ members. We are always able to group up and hit the streets.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
The reviews are correct, I uninstalled this game faster than Crimecraft . The controls are terrible and the pvp lacks any real incentive. The game can be saved and I'm still keeping a rather hopeful eye on its progress but it isn't worth my money as it stands.
"For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honour..."
The reviewer must have not given the driving a chance. If he did not improve his driving over his time in beta and in retail, then he is the one at fault. Many of us started out by plowing into corners and wrecking our cars but within a week we are all pretty good at driving now. Some of us better than others. Driving is fine and it is extremely fun.
He talks about the city design. What? The city districts are awesome looking. The designs of the buildings, the layout of the city blocks, the overall beauty of it all is fascinating.
He goes on about having to press F to complete missions, how is this any different from any other MMO and some other games. What does he want? To have to press different keys for each missions? How tedious! Why is this guy even allowed to review a game? He also complains that the missions do not get more complex. The way I see it, the missions are a way to establish a reason for an APB. Sometimes an APB is not called out and thus the mission is over fast. Yes that can be boring but most of the time, I mean nearly 95% of the time, when a mission is started it ends with a gun fight in the streets against other players. That is the whole point to the game, a shooter with extra elements in it.
The one part I agree with is where he talks about the other team setting up camp at the objective. It gets very frustrating, however, we have overcome these odds in our groups. We know that running straight for the objective will get you killed, so we do what he must to overtake the enemy and then get the objective. It may not work all the time but it is fun trying. He seems to be complaining that the enemy is using a tactic. Well ... tactics work. I do agree with him that frustration is built into the game at all levels. All I can say is that if the game is too much to handle, then do not play it. Yes I have gotten frustrated and I know others have. We are in vent and we hear everything said. I have learned to accept that this game is frustrating but I cannot stop playing because it is the ultimate shooter game in my opinion.
I like the way the game is set up without hit boxes. If there were hit boxes then no one would survive longer than we do. Headshots would drive people away from this game quickly. The way it is setup allows all people who play the chance to get the kills, aim for the body and shoot. It does not matter if you hit them in the head or the finger. It works.
He must have played this game like he plays Counter-Strike or Call of Duty. It is not the same type of game. Skill is involved and getting the right weapons makes a huge difference. He couldn't hack it so he gave the game a Rating of 55. I give his review a rating of 0.
I know that my clan is having a fun time.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
I played in closed beta, and I enjoyed it, it honestly couldn't have gotten worse from there.
Wish you would elaborate. I've played the last few days and I haven't run into a single bug, glitch, server crash, client crash or anything. For the amount of detail in the maps, my rig runs fairly smoothly and it's far from a good one. Load times aren't bad. Installation and patching was a breeze. The amount of customization is unrivaled in any game available on any platform. What's wrong with the combat? I find it very similar to GTA, and that''s a good thing. There maybe be some unbalancing here and there, but it's not overly noticable. Driving is quite easy after a few days of practice(it didn't take me that long). You can solo and play in a group. All of the missions work as intended. There's almost no lag and no warping of characters. The world detail is pretty damn good. The tutorials and tooltips are excellent. The UI is very good. You can jump in and get action for 5 minutes or 5 hours. You can design your own car, or clothes, tattoos, body, music and there is a pretty nice variety of weapons and upgrades as you progress through the game. I mean really, what isn't there to like about the game? I see people saying it's horrible and there isn't anything bad. It's the smoothest launch I've seen for any MMO style game, even though it's not an open-world MMO. The VOIP works great. You can play your own death music that people can listen to when you kill them. You can blast your own music in your car. You can import songs from your HD to play with a built-in music player. I'm failing to see anything that should run people off.
There are a few things that they can add that would make it even better, but it's all a matter of content. The games core is as solid as I've seen any games core systems. A FFA zome that will put people against everyone else. A team based map where teams fight against each other. Gang territorial conquest maps. Perhaps a PvE map for all the crappy players. Expanded weapons, upgrades, equipment, clothing... etc etc etc. Maybe some further network and client optimization, but as I said.. it runs pretty well currently. Perhaps they could expand the player limits to 150 or so. I'm not sure how bad this will affect the performance though. Even then, with 100 players running around.. there's firefights all over the map.
If it's not your style of game, why did you even try it? If it's not your style of game, then say so. Don't say the game is bad just because it's not your cup of tea. I've been a part of quite a few game launches, and this one is by far the best launch I've seen.
You've befuddle me kind sir, I was praising the game, not bad-mouthing it.
The reviewer must have not given the driving a chance. If he did not improve his driving over his time in beta and in retail, then he is the one at fault. Many of us started out by plowing into corners and wrecking our cars but within a week we are all pretty good at driving now. Some of us better than others. Driving is fine and it is extremely fun.
He is the one at fault? Why are you making excuses for piss poor controls? The controls suck, you admit it yourself by saying you started out by plowing into corners and wrecking cars. If the controls were good, you would never have done that.
The excuse that it takes time to get used to controls is pretty shallow. It's pretty simple to drive in APB, it's just unresponsive and poorly done. I like a lot of things about APB...but let's be honest, the driving controls...no...the controls in general are very poor.
Maybe I should have tried playing with a 360 controller...
I'm sorry you haven't learned how to drive. It makes for great chases when people have to work their brakes and pick their course according to the traffic and highways.
I drive fine now, no problems as I weave in and around traffic. What's your excuse? Having fun? I am.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Comments
1) This ones easy. He didn't mention anything about the shooting mechanics because there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They are how they wanted them to be and they work.
What the review meant to say is he would prefer hit boxes and such, and that he would prefer a cover system that allows for drawn out I'm invincible type shoot outs.
This doesn't equal a flaw. This is just someone wanting it there way just because.
Now in MMO's (small multiplayer games don't have this problem) multiple hitboxes increase stress on the server for one. Then unlike small multiplayer shooters, this game has a large living world, not some empty map for you and 31 other players. There's traffic, NPC's walking around town, and atm I think 79 other players besides you. Not to mention the player vehicles.
Thats just issue one with multiple hitboxes. Planet side didn't have them either.
Now on to issue 2, this is something I've noticed from playing. Whether you have perfect aim, or if you have an aim bot, that won't equate to a win. The shooting mechanics limit this in a number of ways. For one, there isn't any "Head shot, I win!" crap going on. Number 2, weapons all have different ranges where they are effective and miss more often than not when outside there effective range. Same goes for automatic weapons, the longer you spray the more off the shots get.
Not only does this make game play a bit more strategic, it also limits how effective aim bots are. Just because your the best shooter, or using an aim bot, it doesn't mean you will be guaranteed a win.
This is also in line with what the Devs wanted. They wanted something more akin to paint ball than CS, which they have stated.
So.... no, there isn't a problem with the shooting mechanics. It's a problem with the reviewer and it looks like you as well, simply wanting things done your way.
If the reviewer had stated he simply preferred a different take on the shooting, thats one thing. But, thats not what he said lol.
2) The driving mechanics are excellent. I love the drift style driving. Going faster and faster makes turning harder, but you have one of the better hand break mechanics that I've seen in a game making power sliding or drifting work better than I've seen it done in many offline games.
If you can't handle the higher performance cars, stick with slower cars with better handling and grip. I love my little jeep. It's got awsome acceleration and grip. The top speed is a bit low, and the handling on it is a bit harder than most cars (Yes, each car is different) but the acceleration and grip making it a killer Financial district vehicle with all those nice little alley ways and stair wells that it's small enough to fit down. Driving inside a building and running over some criminals that freak out and don't know what to do when they see your vehicle coming at them at high speed is just priceless.
I mean if you want to see a game with a horrible driving mechanic check out Need for Speed world. Thats worth complaining about.
But the driving mechanics in APB work well and are pretty much perfect imho. It's like Burnout meets Tokyo Drift. or Need for Speed underground.
That to me equates to win.
3) Yes there could be more mission types. But even robbing a bank would break down into one of the same types of missions we have now. I mean seriously dude........ think before you post.
Step 1) Break in (we have this), step 2) Defend (We have this). Step 3) Escape (We have this)
Guess what, thats actually is exactly like missions we already have.
We could use more, but thats the case with any MMO.
And as far as pressing F goes.......... whats wrong with that? Why is it a problem having to push F to interact with different things in the world? Is you F key missing? Do you not know how to rebind it to something else?
I mean dude this is pretty standard though. In a lot of MMO's you either hit enter to interact with the limited amount of things in the world that you can actually interact with, or space bar, or right click.
Pretty much every MMO uses 1 interaction button. I'm failing to see a problem here. Heck most single player games use 1 interaction button. This allows for the other buttons to be used for other things.
How is the friggin F key to interact with the world a problem? Please explain because this seems nothing more than nit picky.
4) Matchmaking could use some work, but it's far from the horrific issue you tried to make it out to be. It needs some slight tweaking at most lol. Yes, when you accept a mission it can be 1000m away some times. The thing is, thats just one objective. Most missions have multiple objectives. The winner is the one that completes the final objective. So you always have a chance except for on rare occasions when you join a backup mission and it's already almost over by the time you get it.
Also... you complain about how you can get pitted up against someone that has an upgraded weapon....... you do realize that if you (someone without an upgraded weapon) gets pitted up against someone with an upgraded weapon you get to call for backup, unless of course you have a higher threat rating or w/e it's called because of your personal upgrades etc.
I've been up against people with much higher rep and such. They had some fully decked out weapons. But it's pretty much always been me and 2-3 others against them.
1 vs. 3 or 1 vs. 4 seems more than enough compensation for being put up against a guy with an upgraded weapon.
And yes... you can upgrade your weapon. It is an MMO so there has to be some form of advancement. But thankfully unlike every other MMO, in APB that advancement gives only a slight advantage. The game still resolves primarily around player skill, tactics and strategy. Those win battles, you won't win many battles just because you have more ammo or range in your gun, or even dmg.
The rest of your post is fairly meaningless and deserves to be ignored without a response. But I will say this, your biggest mistake was comparing an MMO with single player or small multiplayer games. Once you did that, your post is meaningless because If I compare FF10 to FFXI, guess which one had better graphics, mechanics, etc, etc, etc, FF10. Guess which I played longer though........... FFXI.
Comparing MMO's to non MMO's is like comparing a Saturn's gas mileage to a bus. You can say the bus sucks because it uses 100x more gas, but your intentionally leaving out that it carries a ton more people.
Edited to Add: I'd actually like to see a review about APB and not this continued complaining about how it isn't like off line shooters or small map lobby shooters, or how it isn't like your typical fantasy/scifi MMORPG.
I already know it's different, I like it partly because it's different. Quit complaining about how it's different and review the game on it's merits.
Does it work? Is it fun? Is it well done? What's the experience like? Hows the learning curve?
You know.... make the review informative, and not some whine fest about how the game isn't like Counter Strike or WoW.
My issue is, as s shooter, its lacking. I've had much more fun with other 3rd person shooter games like Max Payne, Gears of War and Mass Effect. Those games got it right wrt combat. APB didn't. Simple as that.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Which of those is an MMO?
APB is the best shooter MMO we have. Simple as that
I wouldn't call 4v4 or at most 8v8 an MMO, it's more a large scale lobby you can somewhat interact with other people in while you wait for missions and so forth.
The first M is for Massively, not Micro.
Full Sail University - Game Design
The game review is absolutely correct...
The game is boring. Period.
And the few who truly does like it, and can have fun in a mediocre game with little content, great for you, stop defending the game and go play it...
Good games doesn't need to be defended.
Though i have bashed Global agenda in the past, I'd recommend it to everyone who is thinking about APB... Go play Global agenda instead, it is now completly sub free, the game has moved to the buisness model of Guild wars: Pay Per Expansion.
And with big expansions already announced, with big open world, I wouldn't rule out Global Agenda just yet.
Have fun guys
Beazt
And there we have it.... the root of your problem has been discovered. You either haven't played APB or don't know what an MMO is. With your lobby reference it's a safe bet that both are true.
Lobby is fairly non interactive. There is not persistent world, you play different maps with friends, clan mates or random players. APB is a far cry from a lobby.
The world is teeming with activity and other players, and it's persistent. There are things to do outside of missions and whether or not you are in direct conflict with other players you do interact with them and are aware that they are there.
Driving down the streets of the financial district or waterfront can lead you into head on collisions with other players. Other players are witnessing you committing crimes and being sent out on missions after you.
While the world is instanced like many MMO's now days, CO, STO, AoC, yes... even WoW has the instanced dungeons and etc., inside that instance are a large number of players. That server can hold 100k players I believe the devs said. You will run into the same people as well as new people all the time.
And the key that makes this an MMO and not a lobby is that all these people are doing there own thing in game independent of you. Some are ram raiding stores, others are witnessing crimes, some are mugging civilians, some are stealing cars and turning them in for cash, taking on missions that take place in this world that pits them against other players. Some are even out hunting down bounties and others are engaging in player run races.
See all this is going on all around you WHILE you do your own thing.
This is an MMO.
A Lobby is where you sit around and wait on queue's or select a map to play a short round in. In that map there's nothing but you and the other players. Nothing to do but that set objective. When ii's over, you select a different map or return to the lobby.
You may not call APB an MMO, but it is an MMO. You not calling it one doesn't change the fact that it is one lol.
Regardless of what you wish to believe, it is what it is lol. Or as a great poet once said "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.".
I've been playing APB nearly non-stop with some friends since the game released (Pre-order release) and I still stand by my statement in regards to how I feel about APB being an "MMO", don't jump to conclusions so fast lest you blind yourself. This is all a matter of opinion, and mine is this if you must have greater details behind my thoughts on the matter.
MMO - MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE
APB covers both the MULTIPLAYER and ONLINE aspect of the phrase just fine, however the MASSIVE part leaves a lot to be desired since there are no larger groups than four people unless you so happen to get backup leading to a possible four more; eight people on a team making the total sixteen overall on any given mission is no larger than even console shooter games. Can you interact with other players in all the districts? Yes, in any meaningful way beyond to grief them? No. MASSIVE to me as a word in terms of an MMO also requires there to be massive amounts of ways to interact and play with other people, APB does not allow that and like GA (Global Agenda) it promotes small groups, not larger ones you'd find playing any normal MMO. Yes, there is a clan system and clan rewards, but even so you're not as a clan working together on the goals... you're more an individual working on the same goal as everyone else.
The districts are a LOBBY in disguise, just think about it and it becomes obvious. Yes, there are things to do in the districts when not on a mission, but hell all that really matters is the PVP in the end.
I'm tired and will continue this post later if I must. Long story short I love the game.... but they shouldn't use the term MMO for a game where there is little player interaction beyond griefing and shit talking the guy who just killed you. I've not in over 90+ hours of playing ever seen the sical district used for actual "socialization", that sums up my point nicely too.
Full Sail University - Game Design
I don't know, me and my four buddies fending off waves of 4+ people as notoriety 5 criminals is pretty hilarious. I think everyone here is missing out on having their notoriety/(whatever the enforcers have) maxed so that EVERYONE can kill you. It then becomes how long you can survive and fend off waves upon waves of people coming to murder you for your extra cash and faction points. Last night we survived for 22 minutes with waves of people coming at us, sometimes as many as 10 at a time. Was great fun.
So I recently found the complete unbuilded (meaning the code is there in plain view) version of the game (client side of course....though a friend of mine said the chinese are working at cloning the server side haha). I was particularly interested in the customization parts and the driving.
in all my years i have never seen more clunky coding. its as if 10 different people just randomly merged their code and came up with a mess. it reeks of poor management and for a game that was in development for 5 YEARS, im incredibly impressed at such a terrible job. Their excuses for not having a good shooting system are obvious: their character structure DOESNT ALLOW FOR IT! want me to make this clearer? they put a box around the entire character and that is the striking range....
oh and the reason the load times suck is because your comp has to download everyone else's customized shit and apply it to the models loaded in your comp.
also how does a game of this magnitude not have good weapon mechanics?
if you buy this game, you just handed your money to a bunch of lazy idiots.
/theinhibitor/
funny you guys think APB is bad... you should see how bad NFS: World is
I tell ya I would pay to play MotorCity Online if EA brought the servers back, but even free to play I won't be playing NFS: World cause its just a POS game.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Just because its an mmo, doesn't mean I have to lower my standards and expectations when it comes to what I expect from a 3rd person shooter. And neither should anyone else. The combat, driving and UI just feel extremly clunky and unituitive to me.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Just adding my two cents, after the Darkfall mess I don't trust anything Eurogamer says.
Kinda funny by some definitions you could call Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 multiplayer aswell MMOS
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
Reviews i learned not to trust. I played the game myself for a brief time, and while it was probably too short to get a proper grasp of it, i can safely say it didn't felt as worth the subscription fee yet.
While all the technical things can be fixed and should be as soon as possible, the game itself suffered from a lack of finished idea. So we have GTA-like setting with cops and crims, car driving, guns, and all the good stuff, and yet it feels empty, void of anything more than just running from one mission spot to another.
The world itself felt dead outside of the mission scenarios, anything you do in between them seems to not matter much at all, the supposedly persistant world is just an illlusion and excuse. Simply put, the gameplay felt slow. Outside of missions there is nothing, oh sure you can stand on the corner at look at others having fun, but that gets old pretty fast. Why, as a criminal, i cant pick up a sweet spot somewhere and just annoy the hell out of the cops? Why as a cop i cant just get into pursuit of someone that obviously brakes the law. Instead, i have to pick up a mission, and be stuck in that mission for overly long time.
The concept fails to show me how it is a MMO worth paying a fee.
I think, despite all the bad words Global Agenda recieved, it at least tried to do things right. They didn't ask for payment prior to releasing actual content for the game, and eventually decided that their game is not actually a product that can fairly deserve the fee. APB faces similar problem, the lack of the the actual MMO content makes it a fun game, that i will have to pass on, due to simple fact i can get pretty much same expierience from buy2play games.
Add shooting mechanics )
We won't agree here that's for sure.
People who like softcore Battefield: BC2 would cry about the weapon characteristics, range, accuracy and damage in APB. I don't even mention things like limited range of view and bullets disappearing after 100 meters. I say it again, APB is an action game / shooter in the core so it suppose to cater to players who enjoy this kind of entertainment. It fails to deliver the quality of such a title. There is no tactics, strategy in this, it is all about damage per second and optimal range. Can you give us details about weapon ranges and damage drop ? I am sure any shooter gamer interested in APB will find them pathetic.
There is no place for player skill at all. You want it or not player skill and team play is the core of any good shooter. Please don't use paintball comparison, because paintball has nothing to do with APB. As long you don't play it with some kind of weird rule-set, one hit in paintball means one kill. In APB you will find yourself amazed by targets walking away with amount of bullets which would kill five people not just one. Balance between semi-automatic weapons, fully automatic rifles, SMGs, pistols and shotguns is all about: you win because you are in your optimal range when you opponent is not. I am a strongly FPS oriented player and I found that really frustrating.
Add driving mechanics )
I personally didn't have a huge problem with it, even with the fastest cars, but the problem is there and a lot of people won't like it.
Please the don't ignore the core problem with APB by saying that the rest of my post is not worthy answering.
Answer two question: What does APB offer except character customization which can't be delivered by any AAA quality shooter / action game ? Do you really think it is worth the sub ?
I don't and that's the main reason why the game doesn't cut it for me.
Customization is just a string and recreated in the buffer on the local client, and its not even done during load time, as evidenced by when you first load in, most people look like the defuilt model.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
The reviews are correct. It's just a poor product.
Also... LOL @ someone using "unbuilded" and then speaking like he knows anything about code, let alone English. It's decompile, champ.
I am having a blast in this game. I guess it is because of the clan I started that has 30+ members. We are always able to group up and hit the streets.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
The reviews are correct, I uninstalled this game faster than Crimecraft . The controls are terrible and the pvp lacks any real incentive. The game can be saved and I'm still keeping a rather hopeful eye on its progress but it isn't worth my money as it stands.
"For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honour..."
The reviewer must have not given the driving a chance. If he did not improve his driving over his time in beta and in retail, then he is the one at fault. Many of us started out by plowing into corners and wrecking our cars but within a week we are all pretty good at driving now. Some of us better than others. Driving is fine and it is extremely fun.
He talks about the city design. What? The city districts are awesome looking. The designs of the buildings, the layout of the city blocks, the overall beauty of it all is fascinating.
He goes on about having to press F to complete missions, how is this any different from any other MMO and some other games. What does he want? To have to press different keys for each missions? How tedious! Why is this guy even allowed to review a game? He also complains that the missions do not get more complex. The way I see it, the missions are a way to establish a reason for an APB. Sometimes an APB is not called out and thus the mission is over fast. Yes that can be boring but most of the time, I mean nearly 95% of the time, when a mission is started it ends with a gun fight in the streets against other players. That is the whole point to the game, a shooter with extra elements in it.
The one part I agree with is where he talks about the other team setting up camp at the objective. It gets very frustrating, however, we have overcome these odds in our groups. We know that running straight for the objective will get you killed, so we do what he must to overtake the enemy and then get the objective. It may not work all the time but it is fun trying. He seems to be complaining that the enemy is using a tactic. Well ... tactics work. I do agree with him that frustration is built into the game at all levels. All I can say is that if the game is too much to handle, then do not play it. Yes I have gotten frustrated and I know others have. We are in vent and we hear everything said. I have learned to accept that this game is frustrating but I cannot stop playing because it is the ultimate shooter game in my opinion.
I like the way the game is set up without hit boxes. If there were hit boxes then no one would survive longer than we do. Headshots would drive people away from this game quickly. The way it is setup allows all people who play the chance to get the kills, aim for the body and shoot. It does not matter if you hit them in the head or the finger. It works.
He must have played this game like he plays Counter-Strike or Call of Duty. It is not the same type of game. Skill is involved and getting the right weapons makes a huge difference. He couldn't hack it so he gave the game a Rating of 55. I give his review a rating of 0.
I know that my clan is having a fun time.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
You've befuddle me kind sir, I was praising the game, not bad-mouthing it.
I'm free on Friday.
He is the one at fault? Why are you making excuses for piss poor controls? The controls suck, you admit it yourself by saying you started out by plowing into corners and wrecking cars. If the controls were good, you would never have done that.
The excuse that it takes time to get used to controls is pretty shallow. It's pretty simple to drive in APB, it's just unresponsive and poorly done. I like a lot of things about APB...but let's be honest, the driving controls...no...the controls in general are very poor.
Maybe I should have tried playing with a 360 controller...
I'm sorry you haven't learned how to drive. It makes for great chases when people have to work their brakes and pick their course according to the traffic and highways.
I drive fine now, no problems as I weave in and around traffic. What's your excuse? Having fun? I am.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Sir,I find your eulogoy unappeleable
Here is a shovel,would you like to drop the last mound of earth before sending this game to it's eternal rest?
It reminded me of Fallen Earth, change the Mad Max scene to a City scene, remove some gameplay, add some customization.
Great game, but not worth a sub, imo. FE is.