I'd really like to know how alot of you would fare in the world I grew up in. A world before the internet, where there was no "veil of anonimity" covering a means for predators to stalk their prey.
When I grew up, EVERYTHING we did was associated with our REAL NAME, and our FACE.. If we got caught doing something bad, and gave a fake name to the police, it got logged to all law enforcement agencies as a "known alias"..
You all act like you are somehow constituitonally guaranteed the right to say and do things under a pseudonym, and the simple fact is you are not. The internet has been a thorn in the side of law enforcement since its initial rise to mainstream popularity only what.. 10 years ago???
Things are not changing for the worse, things are changing back to more how they used to be, where accountability for ones words and actions actually means something, because eventually, there will be no way to escape what you said, or did, under some anonymouse veil.
All it takes is one company like Blizzard to look at their community and say "Enough is enough" to get the ball rolling.
I applaud Blizzard for this move, and hope other companies will follow suit.
What you said in red is true. To a point. The police would find out your real name and other departments would learn about your Alias. However not everyone in your city or town unless it was very small would even know. So your anonymity would still be in place.
So in this situation Blizzrd is the police. They know your Alias. Forum and they also know your real name through your account. They can just take care of it iternally.
They do moderate their forums, and they do have internal means of taking care of things, and over the last 6 years or so I'm pretty sure they have done alot internally to alleviate this.
So there are a couple ways to look at it (probably more but I'll list what comes to mind quickest)
1) They have enough data collected to know within a fairly high degree of certainty that this applies to a small enough percentage of the community that they can whether the initial sub loss (which will be small).
or
2) They simply don't care, and have made enough off of WoW and other games (plus up and coming releases) that they feel this is the right thing to do regardless of community reaction.
Take your pick, but if I were in Blizzard's position, I would want as much security as possible, and while this may sound VERY counter intuitive to modern thought, the availability of information isn't the danger, it is what other companies will allow you to do with minimal information that is really the culprit... I'm talking ID theft etc. here.. Predation and stuff.. Well, that's the flip side of the coin.. The harder it is for people to be anonymous online, the harder it is for a predator to find his prey, regardless of the available information, simply becasue the predators actions are tracable, in real time.
OK, I'm borderline Wall of Text here, so I'll wrap it up.. Yes, The police/Blizzard analogy is weak, but the point behind the anology is still what is at heart. The problem isn't the availability of information. The problem is what you can do with said available information now, that you couldn't 20 years ago. The solution lies not in hiding the information, but making that information useless to anybody but it's rightful owner.
Exposing real names is a very small step in the right direction.
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
Btw, to anyone thinking "oh it will never be a problem 8D Just teaches them dern kids they cant hide behind anonymity 8D" (which I will remind you, as your name means as little as your avatars name without context, the fear your supposedly invoking in trolls is that of the context that can be garnered via their name, IE: Their location and various other information that can link the name to their physical self. Basically, you're condining the system because the threat of violent and criminal reprocussion will keep them in check...) lets just see how it worked out for a Mod that decided to try and prop up the "feature".
"Example? At one point in the huge Real ID thread on Bliz's site, a GM popped in to say "Hey I think Real ID is a good idea!" and posted his real name on the thread. Within minutes his physical address, email address and phone number were posted in a reply. Thanks to the quick "delete" fingers of the Blizzard mods it was removed almost instantly; but the damage was done" -GUcomics
Anyone who has used the internet for any appreciable length of time knows how stupid this is. Still don't believe me? Head on over to 4chan with your real name and be mr "IRL toughguy" there and ask for your "docs". Enjoy.
See, that is a bad example, simpl ywe know more than just his real name.
We already know he works for Blizzard, so we can narrow down the region of search to say, a 50 mile radius from Blizzard's headquarters.
So anonymity through obscurity is good. Not sure how that's different than anonymity through an alias except those with unique names are have less protection under one system and equal protection under the other.
LOL, yeah, if your legal name is something like Dweezle-Harpy Sunshine-Snowblower, guess that does make the search a tad simpler.
We're arguing from points of views from different generations...
I'll pose this question. If it's so bad to post your real name online, how come the most popular website in the world now is Facebook?
I'll admit, I still don't use facebook, never saw the attraction to it.. Maybe it's because I never got along with the jerks I was stuck going to school with, or perhaps becasue I dumped my ex's for good reasons and have no desire to hook up with them, ever again..
I'm 22 and I see exactly what you are getting at and agree entirly.
You can't do much with a name, and even if your name is bizzare, why would somebody target you. I give my name out freely on the street, I have yet to be raped or murdered.
Not to mention we still have this whole thing called police.
PS. The blizzard guy who posted and had his information found; didn't actually.
And I use Facebook, and if an employer finds it they will see nothing but my education, a nice picture of me, possibly some little thumbs of a few friends and thats it. Maybe if they are nosey they can find my last.fm profile and know what kind of music I listen to.
Real ID is no more dangerous than wearing a name tag to a party, or a convention. Thousands do it daily.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I'd really like to know how alot of you would fare in the world I grew up in. A world before the internet, where there was no "veil of anonimity" covering a means for predators to stalk their prey.
When I grew up, EVERYTHING we did was associated with our REAL NAME, and our FACE.. If we got caught doing something bad, and gave a fake name to the police, it got logged to all law enforcement agencies as a "known alias"..
You all act like you are somehow constituitonally guaranteed the right to say and do things under a pseudonym, and the simple fact is you are not. The internet has been a thorn in the side of law enforcement since its initial rise to mainstream popularity only what.. 10 years ago???
Things are not changing for the worse, things are changing back to more how they used to be, where accountability for ones words and actions actually means something, because eventually, there will be no way to escape what you said, or did, under some anonymouse veil.
All it takes is one company like Blizzard to look at their community and say "Enough is enough" to get the ball rolling.
I applaud Blizzard for this move, and hope other companies will follow suit.
What you said in red is true. To a point. The police would find out your real name and other departments would learn about your Alias. However not everyone in your city or town unless it was very small would even know. So your anonymity would still be in place.
So in this situation Blizzrd is the police. They know your Alias. Forum and they also know your real name through your account. They can just take care of it iternally.
They do moderate their forums, and they do have internal means of taking care of things, and over the last 6 years or so I'm pretty sure they have done alot internally to alleviate this.
So there are a couple ways to look at it (probably more but I'll list what comes to mind quickest)
1) They have enough data collected to know within a fairly high degree of certainty that this applies to a small enough percentage of the community that they can whether the initial sub loss (which will be small).
or
2) They simply don't care, and have made enough off of WoW and other games (plus up and coming releases) that they feel this is the right thing to do regardless of community reaction.
Take your pick, but if I were in Blizzard's position, I would want as much security as possible, and while this may sound VERY counter intuitive to modern thought, the availability of information isn't the danger, it is what other companies will allow you to do with minimal information that is really the culprit... I'm talking ID theft etc. here.. Predation and stuff.. Well, that's the flip side of the coin.. The harder it is for people to be anonymous online, the harder it is for a predator to find his prey, regardless of the available information, simply becasue the predators actions are tracable, in real time.
OK, I'm borderline Wall of Text here, so I'll wrap it up.. Yes, The police/Blizzard analogy is weak, but the point behind the anology is still what is at heart. The problem isn't the availability of information. The problem is what you can do with said available information now, that you couldn't 20 years ago. The solution lies not in hiding the information, but making that information useless to anybody but it's rightful owner.
Exposing real names is a very small step in the right direction.
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
How does a name make it easier to find a target; Most of these predators get the name easily after establishing a releationship with the target. Getting the name is a trivial step, and you can't really skip making the realtionship by having the name in the first place.
This is a gapeing flaw in your logic.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I'd really like to know how alot of you would fare in the world I grew up in. A world before the internet, where there was no "veil of anonimity" covering a means for predators to stalk their prey.
When I grew up, EVERYTHING we did was associated with our REAL NAME, and our FACE.. If we got caught doing something bad, and gave a fake name to the police, it got logged to all law enforcement agencies as a "known alias"..
You all act like you are somehow constituitonally guaranteed the right to say and do things under a pseudonym, and the simple fact is you are not. The internet has been a thorn in the side of law enforcement since its initial rise to mainstream popularity only what.. 10 years ago???
Things are not changing for the worse, things are changing back to more how they used to be, where accountability for ones words and actions actually means something, because eventually, there will be no way to escape what you said, or did, under some anonymouse veil.
All it takes is one company like Blizzard to look at their community and say "Enough is enough" to get the ball rolling.
I applaud Blizzard for this move, and hope other companies will follow suit.
What you said in red is true. To a point. The police would find out your real name and other departments would learn about your Alias. However not everyone in your city or town unless it was very small would even know. So your anonymity would still be in place.
So in this situation Blizzrd is the police. They know your Alias. Forum and they also know your real name through your account. They can just take care of it iternally.
They do moderate their forums, and they do have internal means of taking care of things, and over the last 6 years or so I'm pretty sure they have done alot internally to alleviate this.
So there are a couple ways to look at it (probably more but I'll list what comes to mind quickest)
1) They have enough data collected to know within a fairly high degree of certainty that this applies to a small enough percentage of the community that they can whether the initial sub loss (which will be small).
or
2) They simply don't care, and have made enough off of WoW and other games (plus up and coming releases) that they feel this is the right thing to do regardless of community reaction.
Take your pick, but if I were in Blizzard's position, I would want as much security as possible, and while this may sound VERY counter intuitive to modern thought, the availability of information isn't the danger, it is what other companies will allow you to do with minimal information that is really the culprit... I'm talking ID theft etc. here.. Predation and stuff.. Well, that's the flip side of the coin.. The harder it is for people to be anonymous online, the harder it is for a predator to find his prey, regardless of the available information, simply becasue the predators actions are tracable, in real time.
OK, I'm borderline Wall of Text here, so I'll wrap it up.. Yes, The police/Blizzard analogy is weak, but the point behind the anology is still what is at heart. The problem isn't the availability of information. The problem is what you can do with said available information now, that you couldn't 20 years ago. The solution lies not in hiding the information, but making that information useless to anybody but it's rightful owner.
Exposing real names is a very small step in the right direction.
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
How does a name make it easier to find a target; Most of these predators get the name easily after establishing a releationship with the target. Getting the name is a trivial step, and you can't really skip making the realtionship by having the name in the first place.
This is a gapeing flaw in your logic.
Depends on what the person is after. If the offender is just a racist looking to harrass someone i think seeing the name "Achmed" or "Rachid" makes it easier for him to pick his targets and harrass them. Or you could also abuse situations, not everyone is extremely cautious on the internet , just imagine someone told a little detail on the forums which combined with his Real life name made him a perfect target for god knows what. While rare it does happen , but in the past the lack of a name made it impossible for the offender to use the information. Giving away your name is a security breach , not a big one granted but it is . Its like giving the first number of your Bank Card PIN code , sure it's not the entire code but it will definately not make it harder for a thief to crack the code .
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Because half the world is brain dead and Facebook has a lot of them. The amount of absurd stories i heard about it is just mind boggling . "Mr X got caught by the tax inspection because he shared pictures of an abnormal wealth (i guess fancy cars and such) on facebook which caught the attention of the tax (whats their name again?)" . Or about people telling things like "im going to the bathroom now" on facebook. Or better employees who tell their employers they can't work because they're sick and than post images of them on holiday => Bam FIRED! So ye . Or other people use it just like they use MSN and don't share their information with anyone who is not their facebook friends .
Yeah, I see those too, as well as the ones about divorce lawyers finding picture of estranged spouses with their lovers..
That really is the exception to the norm, stupid is as stupid does right?
Let's take the other side of the Facebook coin. Those who decide that Facebook (or twitter I suppose) is their personal sounding board for anything and everything they feel is wrong in their life. Like the people who sit there and rant about a company, only to get hit with a slander lawsuite (or something similar).. This (IMO) is the good side of having real names posted, and happens just as often as the morons who call in sick then post a picture of their "prize catch at the lake" or something similar...
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Originally posted by Nytakito LOL, yeah, if your legal name is something like Dweezle-Harpy Sunshine-Snowblower, guess that does make the search a tad simpler. We're arguing from points of views from different generations... I'll pose this question. If it's so bad to post your real name online, how come the most popular website in the world now is Facebook? I'll admit, I still don't use facebook, never saw the attraction to it.. Maybe it's because I never got along with the jerks I was stuck going to school with, or perhaps becasue I dumped my ex's for good reasons and have no desire to hook up with them, ever again..
I'm actually just a couple years younger than you, just different point of view. Internet really took off right after I got out of high school. It's actually bizarre because in some ways you are arguing the younger generation's point of view, where everyone and everything they do is on Facebook and Twitter and no one realizes what privacy is.
I don't use facebook either. I very reluctantly set one up just because all my friends and family use it and harass me about it, but I don't post on it or actively use it.
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
How does a name make it easier to find a target; Most of these predators get the name easily after establishing a releationship with the target. Getting the name is a trivial step, and you can't really skip making the realtionship by having the name in the first place.
This is a gapeing flaw in your logic.
Depends on what the person is after. If the offender is just a racist looking to harrass someone i think seeing the name "Achmed" or "Rachid" makes it easier for him to pick his targets and harrass them. Or you could also abuse situations, not everyone is extremely cautious on the internet , just imagine someone told a little detail on the forums which combined with his Real life name made him a perfect target for god knows what. While rare it does happen , but in the past the lack of a name made it impossible for the offender to use the information. Giving away your name is a security breach , not a big one granted but it is . Its like giving the first number of your Bank Card PIN code , sure it's not the entire code but it will definately not make it harder for a thief to crack the code .
In this case wouldn't it be easier to just goto the phonebook, goto the A and find all the Achmed's you could ever want?
Better yet goto Google, search Archmed in google maps and find the closest 5 to your house, you could also get their phone numbers while you're at it.
Seems like people out for this kind of harassment already have MUCH easier, faster, and more effective ways of doing this.
Could you elaborate a "God knows what" plan. Most of these "issues" seem to be things people would never in praticality do.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Because half the world is brain dead and Facebook has a lot of them. The amount of absurd stories i heard about it is just mind boggling . "Mr X got caught by the tax inspection because he shared pictures of an abnormal wealth (i guess fancy cars and such) on facebook which caught the attention of the tax (whats their name again?)" . Or about people telling things like "im going to the bathroom now" on facebook. Or better employees who tell their employers they can't work because they're sick and than post images of them on holiday => Bam FIRED! So ye . Or other people use it just like they use MSN and don't share their information with anyone who is not their facebook friends .
Yeah, I see those too, as well as the ones about divorce lawyers finding picture of estranged spouses with their lovers..
That really is the exception to the norm, stupid is as stupid does right?
Let's take the other side of the Facebook coin. Those who decide that Facebook (or twitter I suppose) is their personal sounding board for anything and everything they feel is wrong in their life. Like the people who sit there and rant about a company, only to get hit with a slander lawsuite (or something similar).. This (IMO) is the good side of having real names posted, and happens just as often as the morons who call in sick then post a picture of their "prize catch at the lake" or something similar...
Those people would use fake names just like the proffessional forum trolls will still use fake names. Off course you will weed out some of the trolls , that's for sure. But is that portion of the trolls worth the other downsides? i personally think not. I guess it depends on how much you dislike trolls or fear possible abuses of your name.
I personally value both hight but being cautious by nature (very) i value security higher and any possible element that could make breeching it easier , how small it could be , is not worth any amount of trolling to my opinion.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
I'd really like to know how alot of you would fare in the world I grew up in. A world before the internet, where there was no "veil of anonimity" covering a means for predators to stalk their prey.
When I grew up, EVERYTHING we did was associated with our REAL NAME, and our FACE.. If we got caught doing something bad, and gave a fake name to the police, it got logged to all law enforcement agencies as a "known alias"..
You all act like you are somehow constituitonally guaranteed the right to say and do things under a pseudonym, and the simple fact is you are not. The internet has been a thorn in the side of law enforcement since its initial rise to mainstream popularity only what.. 10 years ago???
Things are not changing for the worse, things are changing back to more how they used to be, where accountability for ones words and actions actually means something, because eventually, there will be no way to escape what you said, or did, under some anonymouse veil.
All it takes is one company like Blizzard to look at their community and say "Enough is enough" to get the ball rolling.
I applaud Blizzard for this move, and hope other companies will follow suit.
What you said in red is true. To a point. The police would find out your real name and other departments would learn about your Alias. However not everyone in your city or town unless it was very small would even know. So your anonymity would still be in place.
So in this situation Blizzrd is the police. They know your Alias. Forum and they also know your real name through your account. They can just take care of it iternally.
They do moderate their forums, and they do have internal means of taking care of things, and over the last 6 years or so I'm pretty sure they have done alot internally to alleviate this.
So there are a couple ways to look at it (probably more but I'll list what comes to mind quickest)
1) They have enough data collected to know within a fairly high degree of certainty that this applies to a small enough percentage of the community that they can whether the initial sub loss (which will be small).
or
2) They simply don't care, and have made enough off of WoW and other games (plus up and coming releases) that they feel this is the right thing to do regardless of community reaction.
Take your pick, but if I were in Blizzard's position, I would want as much security as possible, and while this may sound VERY counter intuitive to modern thought, the availability of information isn't the danger, it is what other companies will allow you to do with minimal information that is really the culprit... I'm talking ID theft etc. here.. Predation and stuff.. Well, that's the flip side of the coin.. The harder it is for people to be anonymous online, the harder it is for a predator to find his prey, regardless of the available information, simply becasue the predators actions are tracable, in real time.
OK, I'm borderline Wall of Text here, so I'll wrap it up.. Yes, The police/Blizzard analogy is weak, but the point behind the anology is still what is at heart. The problem isn't the availability of information. The problem is what you can do with said available information now, that you couldn't 20 years ago. The solution lies not in hiding the information, but making that information useless to anybody but it's rightful owner.
Exposing real names is a very small step in the right direction.
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
How does a name make it easier to find a target; Most of these predators get the name easily after establishing a releationship with the target. Getting the name is a trivial step, and you can't really skip making the realtionship by having the name in the first place.
This is a gapeing flaw in your logic.
Is it a stretch? Maybe a little. But this is not just about sexual predator's it is also about ID theft. Which this makes it really easier for them than trying to find them through thier character name. This is also about forum harrasment due to your name. Based on the ethnicity it sounds like it is. Or the gender yu are.
This is also about those that will shy away from the forums out of fear and will not be able to ask for the help they may need about the game. You would be suprised on how many people who are introverted or extremely shy in real life feel comfortable talking on forums and in chat room's and games becasue they are anonymous. This just takes one more avenue away from them.
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
How does a name make it easier to find a target; Most of these predators get the name easily after establishing a releationship with the target. Getting the name is a trivial step, and you can't really skip making the realtionship by having the name in the first place.
This is a gapeing flaw in your logic.
Depends on what the person is after. If the offender is just a racist looking to harrass someone i think seeing the name "Achmed" or "Rachid" makes it easier for him to pick his targets and harrass them. Or you could also abuse situations, not everyone is extremely cautious on the internet , just imagine someone told a little detail on the forums which combined with his Real life name made him a perfect target for god knows what. While rare it does happen , but in the past the lack of a name made it impossible for the offender to use the information. Giving away your name is a security breach , not a big one granted but it is . Its like giving the first number of your Bank Card PIN code , sure it's not the entire code but it will definately not make it harder for a thief to crack the code .
In this case wouldn't it be easier to just goto the phonebook, goto the A and find all the Achmed's you could ever want?
Better yet goto Google, search Archmed in google maps and find the closest 5 to your house, you could also get their phone numbers while you're at it.
Seems like people out for this kind of harassment already have MUCH easier, faster, and more effective ways of doing this.
Could you elaborate a "God knows what" plan. Most of these "issues" seem to be things people would never in praticality do.
Trolls are weird . You could also say its easier for a troll to troll people via the phonebook. Yet they don't do it , they troll on gaming forums . That's just how they're . And there are also a lot of issues created through the game. A forum disagreement can in some cases lead to very unproportionate reactions and end up in troll/flame wars. And this is where your real name will make you a better target for the proffessional trolls/flamers who , them all , by coincidence , are named John Smith .
Nerd raging is a word that did not invent itself . You just need to make one person nerd rage on a forum and he decides to than abuse your real name in any way (getting personal info and than whatever his unstable mind tells him to do) . While in the past , well good luck.
I've always thought the internet must be a Psychiatrist's nightmare
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
There is no need for anyone to know real names. It can only lead to problems. There is no upside to this.
I don't fear people coming to my door. That would be incredibily stupid, because lots of people own guns. I fear people calling me to harass me(telemarketers will know what to sell me), finding me on facebook to harass me, I fear my employer will be biased against the views I have in my private life.
In EVE people get hate mail when they kill some crybaby. What would happen if they could see your real name? Would they look your name up in the white pages to call you? I wouldn't put it past some morons.
In this case wouldn't it be easier to just goto the phonebook, goto the A and find all the Achmed's you could ever want? Better yet goto Google, search Archmed in google maps and find the closest 5 to your house, you could also get their phone numbers while you're at it. Seems like people out for this kind of harassment already have MUCH easier, faster, and more effective ways of doing this. Could you elaborate a "God knows what" plan. Most of these "issues" seem to be things people would never in praticality do.
Well none of those random people have done anything worthy of being harassed. But outroll them on some piece of loot and you might have earned that special right. Or show up on the forum while female and you might also. Omg a chick that plays WoW I have a shot!! Maybe I can find her number. Or disagree with them about how OP ret pallies are and they go find your facebook to let everyone know you just suck at WoW.
It's all in the context you supply your information. I'm not even worried about supplying it on *this* forum. But I wouldn't want it on my WoW account name. (Actually I'm not worried about it for myself - I have 0 belief I would actually get trolled by anyone.. though I *did* once roll up an alliance toon on a trial account to track a gnome so I could gank her for 2 days straight no matter where she went..)
And some people just don't want their internet personas to intermingle. Everyone I know irl knows I game and knows I play mmo's but some people prefer to keep that private and I respect their choices.
Clearly this is not representative of the WoW community or even the MMORPG community as a whole, however these results are rather interesting. Over 4x the amount of people are against RealID than are for it and, interestingly enough, there are only 4.1% more people against it than are neutral. The poll has largely grown in this direction as more people voted and it seems to me that it will continue to trend that way or the 'nays' will grow.
Roughly:
72% of people think RealID is a bad idea,
17% of people think RealID is a good idea,
11% of people are neutral.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Nay this is crossing a privacy line which could lead to lots of trouble. Blizzard is trying hard to become the Facebook of gaming with Battle.net and that sucks. As long as they are introducing such crap I'll stay away from all of their games.
You want to control trolls, flamers? Do some moderation, bind people to their maincharacters or let them create one alias for posting (can't be changed).
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Just want to add this. A guy who does a blog at this site I'm linking. He is just showing, that someone who isn't even TRYING, someone who is NOT out to hurt you, can find out so much about you so quickly.
I do not care about Blizzard and Battle.net Forums. But it is well known that stupid ideas are spreading like plague.
Big brothers of all kind, leave me alone! You have my credit card number, real name, address etc. but let me have at least a tiny domain of freedom and privacy, ability to decide myself what to do with my private information. I do not want to pay for your inability to work professionally.
Weird poll. Makes it sound like we're these horribly defenseless creatures being controlled by behemoth corporations.
It's sad we've come to this point. Protesting this is very easy. If you disagree with it either don't play the game anymore (yes you can make choices what you buy) or just don't participate in the forums.
But, if you'd rather feel like your a victim go right ahead.
Weird poll. Makes it sound like we're these horribly defenseless creatures being controlled by behemoth corporations.
It's sad we've come to this point. Protesting this is very easy. If you disagree with it either don't play the game anymore (yes you can make choices what you buy) or just don't participate in the forums.
But, if you'd rather feel like your a victime go right ahead.
To be fair, a vocal response serves its purpose as well. As with everything Blizzard does, the inudstry watches. The backlash of this decision may provide motivation for other companies to rule out such a practice.
Of course, it might have no effect...that's always a possibility too...
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I vote for nay, but not for any of the reasons listed.
Being "Anonymous" is a part of internet culture. It's what makes the internet what it is, the anonymous aspect is what has allowed the internet to morph into its own subculture. The memes, the lingo, and the overall feeling wouldn't be possible without us hiding behind our screen names. And its something that sites like Facebook are trying to abolish.
So nay to real names. Keep the internet anonymous like it should be.
But, if you'd rather feel like your a victim go right ahead.
Most people will be a victim if they leave the system in place. Evne though people are going to choose to leave, they have still invested in a game they though would never reveil their identity to everyone.
It's like a brand you trusted, if they suddenly do something unsuspected, people are still a victim, even if they can just leave the brand. You invest time, money and trust into a company and it sucks to have any trust broken.
In this case wouldn't it be easier to just goto the phonebook, goto the A and find all the Achmed's you could ever want?
Better yet goto Google, search Archmed in google maps and find the closest 5 to your house, you could also get their phone numbers while you're at it.
Seems like people out for this kind of harassment already have MUCH easier, faster, and more effective ways of doing this.
Could you elaborate a "God knows what" plan. Most of these "issues" seem to be things people would never in praticality do.
Well none of those random people have done anything worthy of being harassed. But outroll them on some piece of loot and you might have earned that special right. Or show up on the forum while female and you might also. Omg a chick that plays WoW I have a shot!! Maybe I can find her number. Or disagree with them about how OP ret pallies are and they go find your facebook to let everyone know you just suck at WoW.
It's all in the context you supply your information. I'm not even worried about supplying it on *this* forum. But I wouldn't want it on my WoW account name. (Actually I'm not worried about it for myself - I have 0 belief I would actually get trolled by anyone.. though I *did* once roll up an alliance toon on a trial account to track a gnome so I could gank her for 2 days straight no matter where she went..)
And some people just don't want their internet personas to intermingle. Everyone I know irl knows I game and knows I play mmo's but some people prefer to keep that private and I respect their choices.
They can still have that choice; Don't post on the forums.
On the forums you don't even have to link your characters to your name, you can be Joe Blow asking how to spec his hunter.
Its all Voluntary, if you are scared to have your name associated with Blizzard, then you are free to ask a question on another forum, call Blizzards tech support, send an email, or ask a friend.
If you want to talk on their forum, you have to put your name out. Just like a newspaper can ask your name, people have a choice.
If you aren't comfortable, okay. But to suggest that people are going to target forum posts, stalk them, and hunt them down is getting rediculous. Everyone is just throwing a knee jerk reaction.
Nobody is gona be "OMG A CHICK THAT PLAYS WOW." Everyone knows thousands of women play wow, just go in your guild chat and you'd bump into a couple. If they were gona stalk, they'd stalk before by finding out information from her, googling a name is not the way to go about things.
You can nickle and dime saying its easier, its easier. But A phonebook makes it easier to stalk people... Google makes it easier to stalk people. Should they not work?
People opt out of the phone book, people can opt out of the forums.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Trolls are weird . You could also say its easier for a troll to troll people via the phonebook. Yet they don't do it , they troll on gaming forums . That's just how they're . And there are also a lot of issues created through the game. A forum disagreement can in some cases lead to very unproportionate reactions and end up in troll/flame wars. And this is where your real name will make you a better target for the proffessional trolls/flamers who , them all , by coincidence , are named John Smith .
Nerd raging is a word that did not invent itself . You just need to make one person nerd rage on a forum and he decides to than abuse your real name in any way (getting personal info and than whatever his unstable mind tells him to do) . While in the past , well good luck.
I've always thought the internet must be a Psychiatrist's nightmare
Troll and targeted racist are different things, what you suggested was somebody who wanted to cause real world harm to a person of a certain race, which is accomplished much better via a phonebook.
You're conconcting these scenarios that haven't happend, then criticizing Blizzard for facilitiating them. Thats rediculous
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
RealID is a horrible idea. I have very seldom shared even my first name with people online, and only once my first and last name. Sadly, the person I trusted enough to share my full name with turned out to be, by his own admission, a convicted murderer and rapist. Of course, I didn't know this about him until long after I had misplaced my trust. I wonder what game he plays now? Hm, maybe he moved on to WoW, and even if he didn't, there are still plenty of dirt bag, account thieving, con artist scammers targeting Blizzard's customers. Why in hell would Blizzard go and make things even easier for them?
And then there are all those unholy little brats infesting...erm, I mean those children who play WoW. I bet their parents taught them never to share personal information online, probably not even a real first name. RealID is sending a really bad message, that's it okay to be careless with your personal information. It isn't.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
In my opinion this is the corporation asserting its dominance over the common people. They think they are above the law, and with RealID are in fact breaking the law in several areas of the world. The EULA is meaningless when it comes to a sovereign state's laws, and will not hold up in court.
I have to wonder what they were thinking when they cooked this up regarding the forums and >having< to use your real name. A simple reboot of moderation staff would actually work a lot better, because you have to remember, a lot of trolls don't think they can be harmed. This will not stop trolls, this will stop legitimate people from posting on the official forums.
Blizz does not have the right to remove anonymity for anyone, EULA be damned. It should be something a person has a choice in.
Okay, I hear some of you saying "but you do have a choice... just don't post"... That's all well and good, but what about Johnny Come Lately who has technical issues and works night shift, so he is sleeping when technical support is open, or at work? How is he supposed to get into the game without posting in the technical support forums if he has no other option? See? See how your freedom just got taken away in that situation?
I am really quite appalled by this whole RealID thing. It's the worst internet idea I've ever heard of. Blizzard is going to be paying out billions in lawsuits over the coming years, unless their lawyers have magical strings with all of the local and district courts they will have to go to.
You may not care, but this is gross negligence on the part of a corporation on an epic scale.
Clearly this is not representative of the WoW community or even the MMORPG community as a whole, however these results are rather interesting. Over 4x the amount of people are against RealID than are for it and, interestingly enough, there are only 4.1% more people against it than are neutral. The poll has largely grown in this direction as more people voted and it seems to me that it will continue to trend that way or the 'nays' will grow.
Roughly:
72% of people think RealID is a bad idea,
17% of people think RealID is a good idea,
11% of people are neutral.
Thanks for the poll btw...
Didn't comment in this thread, but have in a couple others around the site and on WoW's forum as well. Terrible idea.
I am curious though, what the writers and staff of this site think about this debacle... Because the more people that say "Whoa... hold on a sec, wtf do you think you're doing?" the better...
Comments
There is little problem with your thinking that finding the predetors would be easier, is that they are already using alias' . One of the reasons Law enforcement have such a hard time locating them. Even if you would make it hardware based they know how to cercumvent it. Or will figure out how to get around it. When someone really wants something they figure out how to get it.
This just makes it easier for them to find there targets and start a dialogue with them to entice them to the predator wether it be for ID theft, or worse. By dispalying the Real life names the only ones doing so will be the legit players, or stupid people. (Not saying Legit players are stupid) So they will be the only ones being known. That bad guy your talking about is going about it with another name.
Those that want to troll or flame for the sake of it will just create new accounts with a fake name etc. and now will have more amunnition to use by real names. Cause now you will be able to add gender/racial bias to the attacks
Where I work the company hires convicts that are on a work release program. So I have a decent insight into their thought patterns.
I'm 22 and I see exactly what you are getting at and agree entirly.
You can't do much with a name, and even if your name is bizzare, why would somebody target you. I give my name out freely on the street, I have yet to be raped or murdered.
Not to mention we still have this whole thing called police.
PS. The blizzard guy who posted and had his information found; didn't actually.
And I use Facebook, and if an employer finds it they will see nothing but my education, a nice picture of me, possibly some little thumbs of a few friends and thats it. Maybe if they are nosey they can find my last.fm profile and know what kind of music I listen to.
Real ID is no more dangerous than wearing a name tag to a party, or a convention. Thousands do it daily.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
How does a name make it easier to find a target; Most of these predators get the name easily after establishing a releationship with the target. Getting the name is a trivial step, and you can't really skip making the realtionship by having the name in the first place.
This is a gapeing flaw in your logic.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Depends on what the person is after. If the offender is just a racist looking to harrass someone i think seeing the name "Achmed" or "Rachid" makes it easier for him to pick his targets and harrass them. Or you could also abuse situations, not everyone is extremely cautious on the internet , just imagine someone told a little detail on the forums which combined with his Real life name made him a perfect target for god knows what. While rare it does happen , but in the past the lack of a name made it impossible for the offender to use the information. Giving away your name is a security breach , not a big one granted but it is . Its like giving the first number of your Bank Card PIN code , sure it's not the entire code but it will definately not make it harder for a thief to crack the code .
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Yeah, I see those too, as well as the ones about divorce lawyers finding picture of estranged spouses with their lovers..
That really is the exception to the norm, stupid is as stupid does right?
Let's take the other side of the Facebook coin. Those who decide that Facebook (or twitter I suppose) is their personal sounding board for anything and everything they feel is wrong in their life. Like the people who sit there and rant about a company, only to get hit with a slander lawsuite (or something similar).. This (IMO) is the good side of having real names posted, and happens just as often as the morons who call in sick then post a picture of their "prize catch at the lake" or something similar...
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I'm actually just a couple years younger than you, just different point of view. Internet really took off right after I got out of high school. It's actually bizarre because in some ways you are arguing the younger generation's point of view, where everyone and everything they do is on Facebook and Twitter and no one realizes what privacy is.
I don't use facebook either. I very reluctantly set one up just because all my friends and family use it and harass me about it, but I don't post on it or actively use it.
In this case wouldn't it be easier to just goto the phonebook, goto the A and find all the Achmed's you could ever want?
Better yet goto Google, search Archmed in google maps and find the closest 5 to your house, you could also get their phone numbers while you're at it.
Seems like people out for this kind of harassment already have MUCH easier, faster, and more effective ways of doing this.
Could you elaborate a "God knows what" plan. Most of these "issues" seem to be things people would never in praticality do.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Those people would use fake names just like the proffessional forum trolls will still use fake names. Off course you will weed out some of the trolls , that's for sure. But is that portion of the trolls worth the other downsides? i personally think not. I guess it depends on how much you dislike trolls or fear possible abuses of your name.
I personally value both hight but being cautious by nature (very) i value security higher and any possible element that could make breeching it easier , how small it could be , is not worth any amount of trolling to my opinion.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Is it a stretch? Maybe a little. But this is not just about sexual predator's it is also about ID theft. Which this makes it really easier for them than trying to find them through thier character name. This is also about forum harrasment due to your name. Based on the ethnicity it sounds like it is. Or the gender yu are.
This is also about those that will shy away from the forums out of fear and will not be able to ask for the help they may need about the game. You would be suprised on how many people who are introverted or extremely shy in real life feel comfortable talking on forums and in chat room's and games becasue they are anonymous. This just takes one more avenue away from them.
Trolls are weird . You could also say its easier for a troll to troll people via the phonebook. Yet they don't do it , they troll on gaming forums . That's just how they're . And there are also a lot of issues created through the game. A forum disagreement can in some cases lead to very unproportionate reactions and end up in troll/flame wars. And this is where your real name will make you a better target for the proffessional trolls/flamers who , them all , by coincidence , are named John Smith .
Nerd raging is a word that did not invent itself . You just need to make one person nerd rage on a forum and he decides to than abuse your real name in any way (getting personal info and than whatever his unstable mind tells him to do) . While in the past , well good luck.
I've always thought the internet must be a Psychiatrist's nightmare
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
There is no need for anyone to know real names. It can only lead to problems. There is no upside to this.
I don't fear people coming to my door. That would be incredibily stupid, because lots of people own guns. I fear people calling me to harass me(telemarketers will know what to sell me), finding me on facebook to harass me, I fear my employer will be biased against the views I have in my private life.
In EVE people get hate mail when they kill some crybaby. What would happen if they could see your real name? Would they look your name up in the white pages to call you? I wouldn't put it past some morons.
Well none of those random people have done anything worthy of being harassed. But outroll them on some piece of loot and you might have earned that special right. Or show up on the forum while female and you might also. Omg a chick that plays WoW I have a shot!! Maybe I can find her number. Or disagree with them about how OP ret pallies are and they go find your facebook to let everyone know you just suck at WoW.
It's all in the context you supply your information. I'm not even worried about supplying it on *this* forum. But I wouldn't want it on my WoW account name. (Actually I'm not worried about it for myself - I have 0 belief I would actually get trolled by anyone.. though I *did* once roll up an alliance toon on a trial account to track a gnome so I could gank her for 2 days straight no matter where she went..)
And some people just don't want their internet personas to intermingle. Everyone I know irl knows I game and knows I play mmo's but some people prefer to keep that private and I respect their choices.
As of 07 July 201, 8:36pm EST and 373 votes:
71.8% of people think RealID is a bad idea,
16.6% of people think RealID is a good idea,
11.5% of people are neutral.
Clearly this is not representative of the WoW community or even the MMORPG community as a whole, however these results are rather interesting. Over 4x the amount of people are against RealID than are for it and, interestingly enough, there are only 4.1% more people against it than are neutral. The poll has largely grown in this direction as more people voted and it seems to me that it will continue to trend that way or the 'nays' will grow.
Roughly:
72% of people think RealID is a bad idea,
17% of people think RealID is a good idea,
11% of people are neutral.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
You want to control trolls, flamers? Do some moderation, bind people to their maincharacters or let them create one alias for posting (can't be changed).
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Just want to add this. A guy who does a blog at this site I'm linking. He is just showing, that someone who isn't even TRYING, someone who is NOT out to hurt you, can find out so much about you so quickly.
http://seewhatyoudidthere.com/2010/07/07/realid-changes-the-very-real-ease-of-stalking-in-the-internet-age/
Posting this on the three threads about this topic.
I do not care about Blizzard and Battle.net Forums. But it is well known that stupid ideas are spreading like plague.
Big brothers of all kind, leave me alone! You have my credit card number, real name, address etc. but let me have at least a tiny domain of freedom and privacy, ability to decide myself what to do with my private information. I do not want to pay for your inability to work professionally.
Weird poll. Makes it sound like we're these horribly defenseless creatures being controlled by behemoth corporations.
It's sad we've come to this point. Protesting this is very easy. If you disagree with it either don't play the game anymore (yes you can make choices what you buy) or just don't participate in the forums.
But, if you'd rather feel like your a victim go right ahead.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
To be fair, a vocal response serves its purpose as well. As with everything Blizzard does, the inudstry watches. The backlash of this decision may provide motivation for other companies to rule out such a practice.
Of course, it might have no effect...that's always a possibility too...
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I vote for nay, but not for any of the reasons listed.
Being "Anonymous" is a part of internet culture. It's what makes the internet what it is, the anonymous aspect is what has allowed the internet to morph into its own subculture. The memes, the lingo, and the overall feeling wouldn't be possible without us hiding behind our screen names. And its something that sites like Facebook are trying to abolish.
So nay to real names. Keep the internet anonymous like it should be.
Most people will be a victim if they leave the system in place. Evne though people are going to choose to leave, they have still invested in a game they though would never reveil their identity to everyone.
It's like a brand you trusted, if they suddenly do something unsuspected, people are still a victim, even if they can just leave the brand. You invest time, money and trust into a company and it sucks to have any trust broken.
They can still have that choice; Don't post on the forums.
On the forums you don't even have to link your characters to your name, you can be Joe Blow asking how to spec his hunter.
Its all Voluntary, if you are scared to have your name associated with Blizzard, then you are free to ask a question on another forum, call Blizzards tech support, send an email, or ask a friend.
If you want to talk on their forum, you have to put your name out. Just like a newspaper can ask your name, people have a choice.
If you aren't comfortable, okay. But to suggest that people are going to target forum posts, stalk them, and hunt them down is getting rediculous. Everyone is just throwing a knee jerk reaction.
Nobody is gona be "OMG A CHICK THAT PLAYS WOW." Everyone knows thousands of women play wow, just go in your guild chat and you'd bump into a couple. If they were gona stalk, they'd stalk before by finding out information from her, googling a name is not the way to go about things.
You can nickle and dime saying its easier, its easier. But A phonebook makes it easier to stalk people... Google makes it easier to stalk people. Should they not work?
People opt out of the phone book, people can opt out of the forums.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Troll and targeted racist are different things, what you suggested was somebody who wanted to cause real world harm to a person of a certain race, which is accomplished much better via a phonebook.
You're conconcting these scenarios that haven't happend, then criticizing Blizzard for facilitiating them. Thats rediculous
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
And then there are all those unholy little brats infesting...erm, I mean those children who play WoW. I bet their parents taught them never to share personal information online, probably not even a real first name. RealID is sending a really bad message, that's it okay to be careless with your personal information. It isn't.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
In my opinion this is the corporation asserting its dominance over the common people. They think they are above the law, and with RealID are in fact breaking the law in several areas of the world. The EULA is meaningless when it comes to a sovereign state's laws, and will not hold up in court.
I have to wonder what they were thinking when they cooked this up regarding the forums and >having< to use your real name. A simple reboot of moderation staff would actually work a lot better, because you have to remember, a lot of trolls don't think they can be harmed. This will not stop trolls, this will stop legitimate people from posting on the official forums.
Blizz does not have the right to remove anonymity for anyone, EULA be damned. It should be something a person has a choice in.
Okay, I hear some of you saying "but you do have a choice... just don't post"... That's all well and good, but what about Johnny Come Lately who has technical issues and works night shift, so he is sleeping when technical support is open, or at work? How is he supposed to get into the game without posting in the technical support forums if he has no other option? See? See how your freedom just got taken away in that situation?
I am really quite appalled by this whole RealID thing. It's the worst internet idea I've ever heard of. Blizzard is going to be paying out billions in lawsuits over the coming years, unless their lawyers have magical strings with all of the local and district courts they will have to go to.
You may not care, but this is gross negligence on the part of a corporation on an epic scale.
Thanks for the poll btw...
Didn't comment in this thread, but have in a couple others around the site and on WoW's forum as well. Terrible idea.
I am curious though, what the writers and staff of this site think about this debacle... Because the more people that say "Whoa... hold on a sec, wtf do you think you're doing?" the better...