What is Blizzard doing now? They gave up on Real ID's. They took the crap and tried to hold true but in the end gave in, but the only thing anyone wants to do is complain.
Yes, Serenes, and when Ford first made Model T's he only made them in the color black. When people complained, he replied,"You have a choice: buy them in the color black or don't buy them at all!" The rest is history. Now we can have cars in any model and any color we want. Yes, Blizzard can walk down this dark path, but they do so at their own peril. I can assure you that the vast majority of paying customers, once they get wind of what Blizzard wants to do will leave for other games or just leave altogether. I rest my case.
Yes you predict that many Blizzard gamers are going to abandon their games because they fear ID revelation when posting, Suddenly millions are changing to another game and the recipient game servers will crash. Indeed, credit card banks will also be swarmed with wow cancellations and perhaps 11 million fresh registration for a new game. Or maybe world war 3 will happen.
Seriously, how many gamers care to post on the forum? Of these, how many would quit posting and stay playing if they, IF IF IF, they are worried. How many of those that posted are really so upset that they need to abandon a game b/c of this worry.
The supermarket changed the color of the plastic bags, suddenly I feel so pissed I need to stop eating at all.
Ford makes a decision that directly affect the product. Blizz makes a decision that does not affect gameplay.
Latest news, Blizz seems to further moderate on this issue. They are shielding the display of real names.
I've read through a lot of this massive thread (but by no means as big as the one Blizzard had, lol), and noticed two major trolls nicknamed Munki and Treekodar that always vociferously advocated real names on Blizzard's forums. Yet they never once volunteered their real names in their postings. I even looked up their user information that the link on their forum nickname so conveniently provided and everything there was locked down, too. Oh my, oh gosh, what have they to hide?? Even their friends lists are listed as private!
/end sarcasm
Now, Munki and Treekodar, back up those mouths of yours, Expose just merely your real names on this forum and then the rest of us might sit up and take you seriously. I mean... it's ok, you have nothing to hide, privacy is useless and all that, amiright?
P.S. Voting ballots in societies where they actually vote for their leaders are anonymous for a reason. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
P.S.S. And what about people that are in Witness Protection programs? Should they have to reveal their real names on forums, too?
Voting is part of the list of rights enjoyed by a citizen under of constitution of certain countries. Not all. When exercising that right, in some countries, they were given autonomy as part of the parcel of rights.
You cannot extend that right to posting in Blizzard's forum, nor can you extend that right to my toilet. You cannot come and knock at my door with a mask and demand ID privacy while wishing to use my toilet.
winess protection system has anything to do with blizzard forums?
look at the end user agreement, you pay a sub for the right to use an account. posting on a forum is not part of the parcel, and the terms governing behaviour when posting in a forum is not something you have a right to decide on, be warned that your name might be displayed, use if you are willing, period.
come on, why don't you quote some practices in roman history, or in Mars? Or maybe we go ask how things are done in heaven?
I don't agree with Li-Su, it was a major change it was not a wise change, but Blizzard backed down we forced them to realize the mistake and change it, they did what any good company would but people insist to keep this topic alive. Blizzard is not pushing anymore Blizzard stoped the Real ID but the topic won't die because these people want to but Blizzard in a bad light and this is there first real oppurtunity.
I don't agree with Li-Su, it was a major change it was not a wise change, but Blizzard backed down we forced them to realize the mistake and change it, they did what any good company would but people insist to keep this topic alive. Blizzard is not pushing anymore Blizzard stoped the Real ID but the topic won't die because these people want to but Blizzard in a bad light and this is there first real oppurtunity.
yes blizzard changed their mind, I do not think "we" forced them to, stop thinking you and me and a few bored man or woman typing nonsense here makes so much an impact. we are nothing.
Is it wise, I do not know, history will tell. I only say, the reasoning given to refute Blizzard is nonsense. I never pretend to say Blizzard is wise or not wise. That is a totally different issue and I am not a wise man trying to pass a judgment.
Then Riddle me this? Why did Blizzard stop? Legal issues? Blizzard is better to look into any problems down the road so I would say thats a non issue. What else is there? So there are two Choices 1 It was just a bad Idea or 2 The tens of thousands of people around the world speaking out stoped them. Either way it was stoped but these threads drag out with Ifs and Whys? Who cares its over whats the point of keeping these threads alive other then bash WoW? Because read thats all it is now. How Blizzard is a back stabbing shady company thats what most forums always do too threads with WoW Flame. Fanboys VS Haters.
Then Riddle me this? Why did Blizzard stop? Legal issues? Blizzard is better to look into any problems down the road so I would say thats a non issue. What else is there? So there are two Choices 1 It was just a bad Idea or 2 The tens of thousands of people around the world speaking out stoped them. Either way it was stoped but these threads drag out with Ifs and Whys? Who cares its over whats the point of keeping these threads alive other then bash WoW? Because read thats all it is now. How Blizzard is a back stabbing shady company thats what most forums always do too threads with WoW Flame. Fanboys VS Haters.
What logic are you pushing? The fact that no one can prove a case automatically means your case is correct?
No one knows what is going on behind the scene. Blizz is shaping its policy and they have made changes in the process. You have proof confirming that you and a few are influential in this process? I doubt. Prove your case or it forever remains a speculation. I have no case here and I do not need a case, I am just a mr nobody and I need not try to influence a company's policy about writing a few words on a forum.
There are only 2 choices, or your little mind can only come up with 2 answers? Company politics is complicated, many decisions are made based on compromises between departments, or between companies. Behind locked doors, shielded by lawyers. We never know why a court case is settled, how or what not. Pretend you know it, I don't and I will not believe that you know anything. Those who knows will know that they cannot talk about it. Those that talks big are only pretenders.
Fanboys? Haters? You need labels? You can only see things from 2 extreme angles?
Then Riddle me this? Why did Blizzard stop? Legal issues? Blizzard is better to look into any problems down the road so I would say thats a non issue. What else is there? So there are two Choices 1 It was just a bad Idea or 2 The tens of thousands of people around the world speaking out stoped them. Either way it was stoped but these threads drag out with Ifs and Whys? Who cares its over whats the point of keeping these threads alive other then bash WoW? Because read thats all it is now. How Blizzard is a back stabbing shady company thats what most forums always do too threads with WoW Flame. Fanboys VS Haters.
What logic are you pushing? The fact that no one can prove a case automatically means your case is correct?
No one knows what is going on behind the scene. Blizz is shaping its policy and they have made changes in the process. You have proof confirming that you and a few are influential in this process? I doubt. Prove your case or it forever remains a speculation.
GAH! Stuck in edit mode and can't get out of the quote box. Eh, color text. Hey, I'm a Blue!
*ahem*
Anyway, what I was going to say is, with all due respect, an almost 2500 page thread with many, many people posting legitimate concerns (among others who were going to some extremes-- hey, there's always THAT group) were likely instrumental in getting the forum Real ID canceled "at this time". Of course, you won't likely see a rally of this magnitude demanding a reversal in a buff/nerf decision for a certain race or class, but in that thread, you had a pretty wide cross section of WoW community culture rallying together.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Then Riddle me this? Why did Blizzard stop? Legal issues? Blizzard is better to look into any problems down the road so I would say thats a non issue. What else is there? So there are two Choices 1 It was just a bad Idea or 2 The tens of thousands of people around the world speaking out stoped them. Either way it was stoped but these threads drag out with Ifs and Whys? Who cares its over whats the point of keeping these threads alive other then bash WoW? Because read thats all it is now. How Blizzard is a back stabbing shady company thats what most forums always do too threads with WoW Flame. Fanboys VS Haters.
What logic are you pushing? The fact that no one can prove a case automatically means your case is correct?
No one knows what is going on behind the scene. Blizz is shaping its policy and they have made changes in the process. You have proof confirming that you and a few are influential in this process? I doubt. Prove your case or it forever remains a speculation. I have no case here and I do not need a case, I am just a mr nobody and I need not try to influence a company's policy about writing a few words on a forum.
There are only 2 choices, or your little mind can only come up with 2 answers? Company politics is complicated, many decisions are made based on compromises between departments, or between companies. Behind locked doors, shielded by lawyers. We never know why a court case is settled, how or what not. Pretend you know it, I don't and I will not believe that you know anything. Those who knows will know that they cannot talk about it. Those that talks big are only pretenders.
Fanboys? Haters? You need labels? You can only see things from 2 extreme angles?
While we might never be sure at 100%, it just requires common sense in such cases . Really, common sense dictates it was the protest. Why? Money. Money was the reason they did this but the protest and the really bad image it created around the internet could have made the whole idea a money loss. (the Real ID idea must have been one of the biggest Game-internet drama i've seen)
If there is one thing i learned about economics and companies through my studies (still not done) is that they're easy to understand. The reason behind a decision is often easy to find out without being in the company. Sure , there are exceptions and you might be wrong , but often common sense is more than enough.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Then Riddle me this? Why did Blizzard stop? Legal issues? Blizzard is better to look into any problems down the road so I would say thats a non issue. What else is there? So there are two Choices 1 It was just a bad Idea or 2 The tens of thousands of people around the world speaking out stoped them. Either way it was stoped but these threads drag out with Ifs and Whys? Who cares its over whats the point of keeping these threads alive other then bash WoW? Because read thats all it is now. How Blizzard is a back stabbing shady company thats what most forums always do too threads with WoW Flame. Fanboys VS Haters.
What logic are you pushing? The fact that no one can prove a case automatically means your case is correct?
No one knows what is going on behind the scene. Blizz is shaping its policy and they have made changes in the process. You have proof confirming that you and a few are influential in this process? I doubt. Prove your case or it forever remains a speculation. I have no case here and I do not need a case, I am just a mr nobody and I need not try to influence a company's policy about writing a few words on a forum.
There are only 2 choices, or your little mind can only come up with 2 answers? Company politics is complicated, many decisions are made based on compromises between departments, or between companies. Behind locked doors, shielded by lawyers. We never know why a court case is settled, how or what not. Pretend you know it, I don't and I will not believe that you know anything. Those who knows will know that they cannot talk about it. Those that talks big are only pretenders.
Fanboys? Haters? You need labels? You can only see things from 2 extreme angles?
While we might never be sure at 100%, it just requires common sense in such cases . Really, common sense dictates it was the protest. Why? Money. Money was the reason they did this but the protest and the really bad image it created around the internet could have made the whole idea a money loss. (the Real ID idea must have been one of the biggest Game-internet drama i've seen)
If there is one thing i learned about economics and companies through my studies (still not done) is that they're easy to understand. The reason behind a decision is often easy to find out without being in the company. Sure , there are exceptions and you might be wrong , but often common sense is more than enough.
With all due respect, and to the blue post above, yes. In absence of solid counter evidence, its is plausible that blizz reversed their decision in face of resistance. However, I do want to point out that not many gamers post on the WoW forums, and a lot of gamers do not use their "real" names in registering the game. As a result, if I ever post on the forums, the name displayed is my token name. The email account used in registering my bnet is also a token email account, one I never use for any other purpose, and registered using a token name.
What it amounts to saying is, the affected portion of the gamer base may not be very high. Whether the expected outcry from an active handful of forum trolls (and genuine posting members) alone contributes to the change in policy we would never know. After 3 decades of work in business and in consultancy, I do understand that what looks like the truth is sometimes a step or 2 from the truth.
All these threads are used for now are to bash WoW. They backed down what is the problem now? They did not give you money? lol this is so funny that the WoW Haters will keep a topic alive just to bash WoW.
With all due respect, and to the blue post above, yes. In absence of solid counter evidence, its is plausible that blizz reversed their decision in face of resistance. However, I do want to point out that not many gamers post on the WoW forums, and a lot of gamers do not use their "real" names in registering the game. As a result, if I ever post on the forums, the name displayed is my token name. The email account used in registering my bnet is also a token email account, one I never use for any other purpose, and registered using a token name.
What it amounts to saying is, the affected portion of the gamer base may not be very high. Whether the expected outcry from an active handful of forum trolls (and genuine posting members) alone contributes to the change in policy we would never know. After 3 decades of work in business and in consultancy, I do understand that what looks like the truth is sometimes a step or 2 from the truth.
Well the affected players would indeed not be high, at least not in a percentage value. I agree there, nonetheless i know some people who wouldn't have been affected but yet considered it a really bad move. It's like a random war in a random country, you might not be affected but that doesn't prevent you to disagree or think less about the agressor . (which would hurt it's PR) . Now ok , i admit that is an extreme example and maybe not 100% correct as a war has many more implication but it's about the principle behind it.
And what i really dislike about what you say is that you consider everyone who acted against it to be a troll . I must beg the difference, i never troll and wouldn't do it because i have a certain ethic, sure i can sometimes have some "outbursts" (so to speak) on the internet but that's rare and often not even close to what some proffessional trolls/flamers would say , and yet i really disliked the change. Simply because i'm very cautious , and i wouldn't have felt comfortable by the idea of knowing some unstable people would know other people's name for many reasons mentioned in the discussions (and add to that the googling of your name by employers , etc...) .
And the protest was very wide and even made it to the BBC , sure it was a small article but not many games get that far into the news and all over the internet people were "facepalming" when they read this whole Real ID idea. So the bad image creation was there and i believe that was what made them change their mind.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Originally posted by Serenes All these threads are used for now are to bash WoW. They backed down what is the problem now? They did not give you money? lol this is so funny that the WoW Haters will keep a topic alive just to bash WoW.
The discussion doesn't begin or end with Blizzard. What they proposed triggered it this time but what's important is regardless of where you stand on the issue it will happen again, maybe with Blizzard maybe with someone else, so a discussion about privacy implications isn't pointless even if it's not of immediate consequence.
I don't think people are 'hating' on Blizzard. The people still unhappy with them are lamenting the change of corporate behavior that would lead to this plan even being considered. Considering the new direction Kotick has been running Activision since he took the reins it's a valid observation that doesn't go away just because they backed down this time.
Oh, the hypocrisy of everyone here advocating the use of real names in WoW's forums is so ironic! Why? None of them, nay not even one, is using their real names in this forum. Easy to advocate it as long as one doesn't have to actually do it. Those in favor of using real names on forum postings, back up that mouth, post your real names here. But you won't because you know like the rest of us that Blizzard's policy they backed away from "at this time" was a terrible policy.
@Li-Su The reason I made the analogy to voting was that people are granted anonymity in voting for pretty much the same reasons people want anonymity when posting to forums. Both actions can excite extreme reactions from unstable individuals that can lead to very bad and dangerous consequences. If someone votes for the losing candidate, that someone doesn't want their name on the ballot they used for obvious reasons. The same holds for forum posting. And as far as the referenece I made to the Witness Protection program, it was merely another example of why a person would not want their real name to show up on a forum posting. If I were in a Witness Protection program, I certainly wouldn't want to see my name on it just because I wanted to be a part of a community of a game that I enjoyed. Sorry if the point went over your head the first time.
Comments
What is Blizzard doing now? They gave up on Real ID's. They took the crap and tried to hold true but in the end gave in, but the only thing anyone wants to do is complain.
Yes you predict that many Blizzard gamers are going to abandon their games because they fear ID revelation when posting, Suddenly millions are changing to another game and the recipient game servers will crash. Indeed, credit card banks will also be swarmed with wow cancellations and perhaps 11 million fresh registration for a new game. Or maybe world war 3 will happen.
Seriously, how many gamers care to post on the forum? Of these, how many would quit posting and stay playing if they, IF IF IF, they are worried. How many of those that posted are really so upset that they need to abandon a game b/c of this worry.
The supermarket changed the color of the plastic bags, suddenly I feel so pissed I need to stop eating at all.
Ford makes a decision that directly affect the product. Blizz makes a decision that does not affect gameplay.
Latest news, Blizz seems to further moderate on this issue. They are shielding the display of real names.
Voting is part of the list of rights enjoyed by a citizen under of constitution of certain countries. Not all. When exercising that right, in some countries, they were given autonomy as part of the parcel of rights.
You cannot extend that right to posting in Blizzard's forum, nor can you extend that right to my toilet. You cannot come and knock at my door with a mask and demand ID privacy while wishing to use my toilet.
winess protection system has anything to do with blizzard forums?
look at the end user agreement, you pay a sub for the right to use an account. posting on a forum is not part of the parcel, and the terms governing behaviour when posting in a forum is not something you have a right to decide on, be warned that your name might be displayed, use if you are willing, period.
come on, why don't you quote some practices in roman history, or in Mars? Or maybe we go ask how things are done in heaven?
I don't agree with Li-Su, it was a major change it was not a wise change, but Blizzard backed down we forced them to realize the mistake and change it, they did what any good company would but people insist to keep this topic alive. Blizzard is not pushing anymore Blizzard stoped the Real ID but the topic won't die because these people want to but Blizzard in a bad light and this is there first real oppurtunity.
yes blizzard changed their mind, I do not think "we" forced them to, stop thinking you and me and a few bored man or woman typing nonsense here makes so much an impact. we are nothing.
Is it wise, I do not know, history will tell. I only say, the reasoning given to refute Blizzard is nonsense. I never pretend to say Blizzard is wise or not wise. That is a totally different issue and I am not a wise man trying to pass a judgment.
Then Riddle me this? Why did Blizzard stop? Legal issues? Blizzard is better to look into any problems down the road so I would say thats a non issue. What else is there? So there are two Choices 1 It was just a bad Idea or 2 The tens of thousands of people around the world speaking out stoped them. Either way it was stoped but these threads drag out with Ifs and Whys? Who cares its over whats the point of keeping these threads alive other then bash WoW? Because read thats all it is now. How Blizzard is a back stabbing shady company thats what most forums always do too threads with WoW Flame. Fanboys VS Haters.
What logic are you pushing? The fact that no one can prove a case automatically means your case is correct?
No one knows what is going on behind the scene. Blizz is shaping its policy and they have made changes in the process. You have proof confirming that you and a few are influential in this process? I doubt. Prove your case or it forever remains a speculation. I have no case here and I do not need a case, I am just a mr nobody and I need not try to influence a company's policy about writing a few words on a forum.
There are only 2 choices, or your little mind can only come up with 2 answers? Company politics is complicated, many decisions are made based on compromises between departments, or between companies. Behind locked doors, shielded by lawyers. We never know why a court case is settled, how or what not. Pretend you know it, I don't and I will not believe that you know anything. Those who knows will know that they cannot talk about it. Those that talks big are only pretenders.
Fanboys? Haters? You need labels? You can only see things from 2 extreme angles?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
While we might never be sure at 100%, it just requires common sense in such cases . Really, common sense dictates it was the protest. Why? Money. Money was the reason they did this but the protest and the really bad image it created around the internet could have made the whole idea a money loss. (the Real ID idea must have been one of the biggest Game-internet drama i've seen)
If there is one thing i learned about economics and companies through my studies (still not done) is that they're easy to understand. The reason behind a decision is often easy to find out without being in the company. Sure , there are exceptions and you might be wrong , but often common sense is more than enough.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
With all due respect, and to the blue post above, yes. In absence of solid counter evidence, its is plausible that blizz reversed their decision in face of resistance. However, I do want to point out that not many gamers post on the WoW forums, and a lot of gamers do not use their "real" names in registering the game. As a result, if I ever post on the forums, the name displayed is my token name. The email account used in registering my bnet is also a token email account, one I never use for any other purpose, and registered using a token name.
What it amounts to saying is, the affected portion of the gamer base may not be very high. Whether the expected outcry from an active handful of forum trolls (and genuine posting members) alone contributes to the change in policy we would never know. After 3 decades of work in business and in consultancy, I do understand that what looks like the truth is sometimes a step or 2 from the truth.
All these threads are used for now are to bash WoW. They backed down what is the problem now? They did not give you money? lol this is so funny that the WoW Haters will keep a topic alive just to bash WoW.
Well the affected players would indeed not be high, at least not in a percentage value. I agree there, nonetheless i know some people who wouldn't have been affected but yet considered it a really bad move. It's like a random war in a random country, you might not be affected but that doesn't prevent you to disagree or think less about the agressor . (which would hurt it's PR) . Now ok , i admit that is an extreme example and maybe not 100% correct as a war has many more implication but it's about the principle behind it.
And what i really dislike about what you say is that you consider everyone who acted against it to be a troll . I must beg the difference, i never troll and wouldn't do it because i have a certain ethic, sure i can sometimes have some "outbursts" (so to speak) on the internet but that's rare and often not even close to what some proffessional trolls/flamers would say , and yet i really disliked the change. Simply because i'm very cautious , and i wouldn't have felt comfortable by the idea of knowing some unstable people would know other people's name for many reasons mentioned in the discussions (and add to that the googling of your name by employers , etc...) .
And the protest was very wide and even made it to the BBC , sure it was a small article but not many games get that far into the news and all over the internet people were "facepalming" when they read this whole Real ID idea. So the bad image creation was there and i believe that was what made them change their mind.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
The discussion doesn't begin or end with Blizzard. What they proposed triggered it this time but what's important is regardless of where you stand on the issue it will happen again, maybe with Blizzard maybe with someone else, so a discussion about privacy implications isn't pointless even if it's not of immediate consequence.
I don't think people are 'hating' on Blizzard. The people still unhappy with them are lamenting the change of corporate behavior that would lead to this plan even being considered. Considering the new direction Kotick has been running Activision since he took the reins it's a valid observation that doesn't go away just because they backed down this time.
Oh, the hypocrisy of everyone here advocating the use of real names in WoW's forums is so ironic! Why? None of them, nay not even one, is using their real names in this forum. Easy to advocate it as long as one doesn't have to actually do it. Those in favor of using real names on forum postings, back up that mouth, post your real names here. But you won't because you know like the rest of us that Blizzard's policy they backed away from "at this time" was a terrible policy.
@Li-Su The reason I made the analogy to voting was that people are granted anonymity in voting for pretty much the same reasons people want anonymity when posting to forums. Both actions can excite extreme reactions from unstable individuals that can lead to very bad and dangerous consequences. If someone votes for the losing candidate, that someone doesn't want their name on the ballot they used for obvious reasons. The same holds for forum posting. And as far as the referenece I made to the Witness Protection program, it was merely another example of why a person would not want their real name to show up on a forum posting. If I were in a Witness Protection program, I certainly wouldn't want to see my name on it just because I wanted to be a part of a community of a game that I enjoyed. Sorry if the point went over your head the first time.
Hey...I'll post my real name... First, middle and last name. I will tell u the toons I had on Wow.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
Do ittttt!
But of course...this has to have some kind of outcome...
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
You sound a little to "excited" Bama....
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.