Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Star Wars: The Old Republic: Five Reasons to be Wary of The Old Republic

24567

Comments

  • SonikFlashSonikFlash Member UncommonPosts: 561

    I think the "What if it's just wow with lightsabers" question was meh.

     

    honestly there's nothing wrong with wow majority rules in that respect, so even if it was wow with lightsabers it would be a massive success.


  • bbates024bbates024 Member UncommonPosts: 99

    Both articles offered some good points. I think the game will be a great success but I always tend to see the glass half full. The game seems to be coming along nicely and I enjoyed watching the group play video. I cant wait to see whats in store over the next 8 months.

  • eburneburn Member Posts: 740

    Originally posted by blackravenuk

    i wish people would stop focusing on the past, what i mean is if they have new idea's for an mmo then let them crack on with it ffs its the future ya never know you might bloody like it so stop cutting the game down an leave them to do there thing

    Well the human brain is designed to relate retained memory to something new as a means of approaching a similar situation with a bit of (what we call) intelligence. The whole it has a bill like a duck, it lays eggs like a duck, it swims in the water like a duck; it must be a platypus! Sort of way of thinking could serve us well at a time when the only real factors hindering progress is technology and modern business practices.

    I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    Originally posted by cyphers

    I thought the way Bioware explained the use of Companions a nifty one: not only will they contribute to your storyline, but in groups you don't have to refuse friends or guildies anymore just because you need a healer for that last spot in your group. Instead you can just invite your friend or guildie and bring along healing Companions to fill in the gap.

    My issue is that when you add companions into the mix that potentially and noticably increases the potency of the avatars.  The issue comes when you add companions into the mix and then don't bother to scale encounters accordingly. 

    As far as I know, we have yet to get concrete details on the actual effect that companions will have on the overall potency of a solo or group situation.  However, if encounters are left in a static difficulty state (i.e. they don't dynamically change in difficulty in accordance with the use of companions) then that potentially implies that either encounters may turn out to be too hard for those who DON'T use companions, or too easy for those who DO.

    In other games, certain classes were designed from the start to use pets as a major contributor to dps output (e.g. WoW's Warlock and Hunter classes), whereas in others (AOC's demonologist) they are nothing but a buff bot, and a slight one at that.  Just which camp TOR fits into is still as of yet unknown.

    For the record:  I'm NOT saying that Bioware are implementing dynamically scaled difficulty encounters OR that they are only static in difficulty terms.  I'm just using such situations to highlight a concern of mine.  As always, we'll have to wait and see just how much of an effect companions have on the overall potency of avatars.

  • iPhelpsiPhelps Member Posts: 23

    lol I'm looking forward to the fully voiced NPC's I hate having to read lines and lines of writing

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Tarka

    Originally posted by cyphers

     

    For the record:  I'm NOT saying that Bioware are implementing dynamically scaled difficulty encounters OR that they are only static in difficulty terms.  I'm just using such situations to highlight a concern of mine.  As always, we'll have to wait and see just how much of an effect companions have on the overall potency of avatars.

    Supposedly they are dynamically scaling some instanced encounters.  To what extent I do not know.



  • obeloviper95obeloviper95 Member Posts: 84

    Wow. Considering all the reason were rather lame .... im still stay hyped... the only thing im wary about is the crafting system still...

  • AndarreusAndarreus Member UncommonPosts: 33

    It's just my theory but it seems to me that companion characters may not be usable in PVP and dungeons.   The footage they've shown when people are grouped, didn't show them.  Ofcourse I know they may not have implemented them yet or they haven't wanted to show it.

    But there's still a chance that when you go on certain activities your companion goes and hangs out in your space ship. 

  • obeloviper95obeloviper95 Member Posts: 84

    W.O.W. is on the top game at the moment because its simple... pick ur class and on of like 5 proffesions and ur on ur way.... i want somthing a lil more complex... that has more then just end game stuffs to repeat and repeat....

    and i dont really have anything against wow i played it for awhile.... but im looking forward to somthing new  and less repetative .....and more complex with a huge learning curve hopefully... like SWG back its begging....

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • LrgShadowLrgShadow Member UncommonPosts: 61

    ok, so this guy wrote an article.    why is there no LINk to the article?

  • dragonfyredragonfyre Member Posts: 60

    Frankly I don't care I just want to play the game. But interesting list either way.

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    Originally posted by Timukas

    Originally posted by iPhelps

    lol I'm looking forward to the fully voiced NPC's I hate having to read lines and lines of writing

    For me personally voice overs are the worst as they tend to be 5 minute blablabla about "go there and meet that". Hope I can hit cancel and still get the quest to read the summary. I'm mostly concerned what happens when "200 hours" of class play ends - is there any end game? So far no info.

     Previous article writers have indicated that you can press Space to by pass the vocal parts of dialogue so you can just skip to the decision making bit.

  • RedRaptor22RedRaptor22 Member Posts: 44

    Honestly as someone who's played all three versions of SWG and both of the Kotor and ME games none of the things listed are of any concern to me at all....none!

     

    My real concerns are about the lack of neutral races/characters, non-combat classes, map size, instancing and the overall layout of the content.

    I really think they should have employed some non-combat and neutral options for the craft-centric players who don't want to have to choose sides because usually it costs them business, especially when there is pvp.

    Before anyone spouts off I know 90% of the world is not instanced, my concern is how and what is instanced, for example how heavily will they instance end game and group/raid content?

    World size? all we've seen is starter areas so far and they seem to be fairly guided, all of biowares rpgs so far have been laid out along a pretty tight path "still very fun" but people love to be able to explore areas they see way off in the distance or run across things literally in the middle of nowhere they had no clue was there... will we see something that resembles an opened up kotor more than say vangaurd or swg? if so thats going to be horrible for me...break down those invisible walls and let me roam!

    Will certain planets be for certain level ranges like SWG? or will they sort of break each planet down to have many levels of content? Even noobs love to explore and vets get tired of doing content in the same setting night after night...no more mustafar instances!

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    Originally posted by LrgShadow

    ok, so this guy wrote an article.    why is there no LINk to the article?

     I'm guessing theres a problem with your browser if you can't see the link.. Try here:  http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/4387/page/1

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Timukas

    Originally posted by iPhelps

    lol I'm looking forward to the fully voiced NPC's I hate having to read lines and lines of writing

    For me personally voice overs are the worst as they tend to be 5 minute blablabla about "go there and meet that". Hope I can hit cancel and still get the quest to read the summary. I'm mostly concerned what happens when "200 hours" of class play ends - is there any end game? So far no info.

    Yes you can skip the dialogue and read it.  Something that you won't be able to do (from what I've heard)  is to skip your choices.  This is comparable to other MMOs where you skip the text and just click "accept quest"  but in this case you'll have to select a number of choices that will determine the outcome and what you are having to do.

     



  • astoriaastoria Member UncommonPosts: 1,677

    Good article. re companion characters. I thought this was a great idea when GW first introduced them. Problem was, they worked too well. I was soon soloing end campaign missions alone by controlling 4 characters easily with my g13 (and time-consuming placement of powers in vertical and horizontal combo - type set ups).

    "Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    Originally posted by RedRaptor22

    Honestly as someone who's played all three versions of SWG and both of the Kotor and ME games none of the things listed are of any concern to me at all....none!

     

    My real concerns are about the lack of neutral races/characters, non-combat classes, map size, instancing and the overall layout of the content.

    I really think they should have employed some non-combat and neutral options for the craft-centric players who don't want to have to choose sides because usually it costs them business, especially when there is pvp.

    Before anyone spouts off I know 90% of the world is not instanced, my concern is how and what is instanced, for example how heavily will they instance end game and group/raid content?

    World size? all we've seen is starter areas so far and they seem to be fairly guided, all of biowares rpgs so far have been laid out along a pretty tight path "still very fun" but people love to be able to explore areas they see way off in the distance or run across things literally in the middle of nowhere they had no clue was there... will we see something that resembles an opened up kotor more than say vangaurd or swg? if so thats going to be horrible for me...break down those invisible walls and let me roam!

    Will certain planets be for certain level ranges like SWG? or will they sort of break each planet down to have many levels of content? Even noobs love to explore and vets get tired of doing content in the same setting night after night...no more mustafar instances!

     The concerns you highlight are certainly valid ones. 

    As for instancing, I personally don't see this as a big issue for me, but it is for others.  I think they've indicated that a lot of the dungeons will be instanced (like in other games such as AOC and WoW).  How much of the world will be zoned or "open" / seamless is still unknown.

    As for map size, there have been indicators that one map took the "reviewer" about an hour to traverse and that wasn't one of the largest planetary maps either. 

    With regards to non-combat activities, at the moment there is a discussion going on the TOR forums about an entertainer class / profession which has diverted to talk about the validity of non-combat professions in TOR. 

    Personally, whilst I can appreciate the need for direction in an MMO, I really hope that the entire collection of planets in TOR aren't just basically level ranged maps.  Like you I hope that some of the planets cater for multiple level ranges to allow for a little exploration and variety in environments.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,022

    Companion charaters should be in the number one spot.  This wories me most of all followed by its biowares 1st mmo.  last for me is all the voice acting.

    One thing I dont se on the list is the cost to play this game.  They sunk millions of dollars in this game, there going to have to make a billion in order to be on target.

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Member Posts: 1,278

    Originally posted by Tarka

    Originally posted by cyphers

     

    My issue is that when you add companions into the mix that potentially and noticably increases the potency of the avatars.  The issue comes when you add companions into the mix and then don't bother to scale encounters accordingly.

     

    Absolutely, just wanna echo my concern over this as well. Could be a knife edge for BioWare.

    As far as ToR aping WoW... I'm fine with it. The Beatles aped Elvis... turned out awesome.

  • AsleepAsleep Member UncommonPosts: 96

    Originally posted by karat76



    Valid reasons but at the end of the day if it is entertaining and doesn't turn into another epeen contest then the game will be worth playing.


     

    Even if it does turn into an epeen it will be worth it if one finds it entertaining. Thats what its all about.

    The major complaint I latched onto in this article was the end game, I deffinately feel you on this, but unffortunately this is goin to happen in every game, even one flooded with alternate gameplay options and mini games, even one flooded with dynamic unicorn sightings, even one where your slightest movement cause a shift in the world that will always be felt, that end game piece of any game, can only last with constant updates filled with more crap to grind.

    So I guess I'm saying if I get to end game in any game, and find its not chock full of things to do, and I find myself doing the same thing every night or what have you, and it kills the fun, thats fine. So long as I had fun getting to that point.

  • severiusseverius Member UncommonPosts: 1,516

    Originally posted by SBFord

    Read all 5 reasons to be wary and then let us know if you agree, disagree or have more to add to The List.

    image

    Too bad y'all didnt have this idea for every mmo, usually y'all just come across as more a part of the different companies' marketing departments.  Hell the way y'all hyped up AOC (along with the introduction of the nearly full page AOC adverts on the home page) I was pretty sure you were employed by them lol :)

    One should be wary of any new mmo coming out.  With that said I can also say that I can see what you are driving at with the 5.  But, some of them don't really count against the title in my opinion.

    5. Bioware's first MMO - This, I do not believe, is a strike against them at all.  In fact I would say it should be in the plus.  Of AAA mmo titles what companies' first outing wasn't a success.  Origin had Ultima Online.  The other mmo put out by Origin or, rather, the principle people (Garriott, Long etc) was a colossal flop; Tabula Rasa.  McQuaid's EQ was huge for its time but Vanguard LOL.  Turbine's Asheron's Call is still recalled very fondly, far moreso than DDO or LOTRO.  Funcom's Anarchy Online vs Age of Conan, Mythics DAOC vs WAR, Cryptics COx vs CO and STO etc etc.

    If BioWare were a small company and this was their first project as a company I would give more credence to this being a strike against them, but this is a game development house.  One that has not crafted a bad game ever and I do not believe for an instant that this will be the one they screw up.  Save that for Dragon Age 2 :P

    4. Star Wars is serious business - While true it hasn't actually meant jack squat as far as star wars video games are concerned because the vast majority of games with the Star Wars logo have plain sucked.  Not just bad games, but flippin horrificly sad excuses that I would be ashamed to have my name associated with lol.  Where BioWare is safe in this category actually directly refutes part of your premise.  Granted, they do not have carte blanche to go hog wild BioWare is one of the ONLY EU (expanded universe) creators that have had their creations embraced into Lucas approved canon.  While the original trilogy time frame is solely Lucas' The Old Republic is distinctly and wholly BioWare's creation and is considered by most of the Star Wars fans I know to be vastly superior to episodes 1-3 and 6.

    3. Voice Acting - Too much - Maybe, but as long as we can skip through the stuff like we can in Dragon Age and Mass Effect I don't see it being a problem.  As far as the WOW reference.... well thats because the quests and the supposed lore of WoW is crap to begin with.  Once you get through a quest chain it has no further relevence to anything else you do in game.  Sounds to me that TOR will have multiple storylines some of which that go from level 1 to endgame.  The first problem, for me, is that once you get to endgame does it all fall apart?  What about additional content, how delayed will it be because of the need for the actors to clear their schedules for a couple days to come tape some audio?

    2. Companion Characters - Yes, everyone having the same will suck.  But then again most pet classes usually resort to one preferred pet over another.  What I do like however is that if my friends arent available and I have a quest to do that requires one or two more people well, I can run with my pets vs the sorry excuse for community that games have today.  The people I have had the misfortune of playing with in most games (outside of my circle of friends) is the number one reason I cancel my subs to an mmo :)  I think a Guild Wars sort of system in a persistent mmo environment is a good thing :)

    1.  WoW with Lightsabers - Force Unleashed? Really?  No, thankyou.  I prefer some depth to my games and you do not get that in those sorry excuses for console games.  My only wish was that BioWare were able to take the fundamentals of SWG and add a fully structured game to it.  However, I full well expect it to be quite similar to WoW.  For myself, leveling toons in wow was first to see the different little class quests that were sprinkled around here and there second to fulfill a role within my group.  Healers, tanks, dps, whatever was needed I can provide.  With TOR I expect that the stories for each class will be a huge motivating factor to play one of everything.  While I never leveled two of the same class in WoW I can see myself doing so here as the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior will have completely independent class quests unlike a horde hunter and ally hunter all doing the exact same quest with just a different pick up and drop off point.

  • RedRaptor22RedRaptor22 Member Posts: 44

    Originally posted by Tarka

     

     The concerns you highlight are certainly valid ones. 

    As for instancing, I personally don't see this as a big issue for me, but it is for others.  I think they've indicated that a lot of the dungeons will be instanced (like in other games such as AOC and WoW).  How much of the world will be zoned or "open" / seamless is still unknown.

    As for map size, there have been indicators that one map took the "reviewer" about an hour to traverse and that wasn't one of the largest planetary maps either. 

    With regards to non-combat activities, at the moment there is a discussion going on the TOR forums about an entertainer class / profession which has diverted to talk about the validity of non-combat professions in TOR. 

    Personally, whilst I can appreciate the need for direction in an MMO, I really hope that the entire collection of planets in TOR aren't just basically level ranged maps.  Like you I hope that some of the planets cater for multiple level ranges to allow for a little exploration and variety in environments.


     

     See I've heard twenty different stories about testers claiming various sizes of the world maps and they seem to double in size with every new tester account so I guess I'm taking that with a grain of salt and basing my concern on my previous experiences with their games...while top notch rpg experiences there are things I would change for something I would want to play for years to come. 

    Every game has it's share of instances which is fine for some things like top end raid encounters and story based encounters but not others such as pvp grounds and common dungeons, I think swg did it best with it's "off duty/combatant/special forces" pvp system, later they added pvp zones with an invisible line in the sand that sent you SF as soon as you stepped foot in the pvp zone, but you could change your flag anywhere you wanted.

    I would'nt even consider the graphics to be a problem like a lot of people, it's basically just a matter of slapping on a helmet for me, armored toons and droids really don't look overly cartoony to me just like the troopers and droids in the clonewars cartoon the faces are what kills it, the rest does'nt look too bad.

  • ZinderinZinderin Member Posts: 51

     

    The game will never live up to the hype or the Bioware legend.   EVERYONE who is waiting for this game, is going to be disappointed.   This is partly the publishers fault (for setting expectations the developers can never meet) and the players fault (for always expecting a game to be the next WoW killer).   You would think the publishers and the players, both, would learn.  But they never do.

     

    5.) BioWare’s First MMORPG

     

    This doesn't concern me at all.   I've become convinved that "experienced" MMO developers just get caught up in ruts, producing the same cookie-cutter crap every other developer out there is putting out.   It seems (to me at least) that every MMO hitting the market has one or two unique aspects to their game ... but in the end, its the Ultima Online model that we've been living with forever, just a different story and different graphics.



    4.) Star Wars is Serious Business

     

    This is their single biggest challenge ... not only do they have to satisfy the Star Wars fanatics who will be thumping their canon / bible at every turn of the game, but they will be judged against Star Wars; Galaxies (preNGE) by everyone still looking to fill the void of that game.

     

    3.) Voice Acting = Too Much?

     

    Don't care, never have cared, and if I play this game I will be hitting the spacebar a lot. 

     

    The fact that Bioware seems to be putting so much emphesis on this aspect of the game scares me A LOT.   If this is their "ground breaking" approach to MMOs, then the game will just be another cookie-cutter game for the vast majority of us.

     

    Consider the top 5 things we hear requested over and over from players concerning an MMO ...

     

    Exploration

    Engaging End-Game play

    A great PvP system

    A great Crafting System

    Better Emmersion

     

    Where, when, did you hear players screaming there wasn't enough VO acting?   Yeah, yeah, there's one or two out there that want it ... but it has never been something that was on the top 5, top 10 or even top 20 things players were asking for in a game.

     

    2.) Companion Characters

     

    Companion characters won't work (or really matter) as long as they are companion characters.  

     

    Instead, they need to make a situation where its your ALT characters that make up your party, and you can choose at any given moment which one of your 2 or 3 characters you are in control of, and the AI takes over the others.   This way you aren't leveling your "companions" you're leveling your "characters".

     

    Then, when you go on raid or join a party with a group of other players, you choose which of your characters you will play solo, and which characters will fill out the group (if there's room).

     

    Yes, I'm talking about built-in bot'ing ... but consider this:   a) If 'bot'ing' is something the game accounts for and the AI takes into consideration, there is no advantage for those that bot, or those who buy multiple account.  b) This will solve the never ending problem of "we can't do this content because we can't find a tank, or a healer".  c) It allows those players who like to play MMO's alone (I don't understand it either, but they are growing in numbers) the ability to always have a group.

     

    The only real argument  to this is, it will lessen the need for people to join groups.   But I would argue, that just as developers require "grouping" now in games to complete certain content, they can create content that requires the "mind, relexes and tactics" that AI simply will not bring to the table.

     

    1.) Will It Just Be WoW with Lightsabers?

     

    In the end, I expect it will be (sadly).   While we players are on the quest for the great game, the Developers and the Publishers are on the quest for the next WoW paycheck.  I don't blame the devs or the publishers, they both are a business, and their primary focus in the end, is to make money.

     

    Some day, someone in the business is going to realize the train has already left the station on beating Blizzard at their style of MMO.   It going to take the creation of a totally different type of MMO, unlike anything we've ever seen.    This isn't like fast food, or or a TV show ... the people playing WoW aren't going to jump ship and abandon all the time and effort they have in the game (not to mention their social network) until someone offers them something that is truly worth jumping ship for.

     

    That, or they just burn out on WoW like I, and so many others, have.

  • ZinderinZinderin Member Posts: 51

    Originally posted by astoria

    Good article. re companion characters. I thought this was a great idea when GW first introduced them. Problem was, they worked too well. I was soon soloing end campaign missions alone by controlling 4 characters easily with my g13 (and time-consuming placement of powers in vertical and horizontal combo - type set ups).

     

    This is not a flaw in the concept of companion characters in an MMO, its a flaw in the design of the game and/or the games AI.  Let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water.

Sign In or Register to comment.