I also think that the period of 2000-2005 showed more innovation and progress regarding MMO's than the period of 2006-2010,
2006-2010 is the MMO bubble resulting from WoW's success. It will crash at some point when MMO hit saturation and then good MMO will be recognised. Currently we see a new MMO announced every week, it can't last.
They fell in love with their first MMO, whether it was UO, EQ1, AC, SWG whatever.
.
They are trying to recapture that first blush experience. This is impossible because they are suffering from nostalgia and no game can live up to a perfect mental image.
.
So they sit in the forum and gripe.
It has nothing to do with first experience, or nostalgia or anything like that. Some of us prefer a different style of gameplay than is currently being developed. I liked UO. It was my first MMO. After that I liked SWG, and no I am not one of those who think pre-cu was perfect. It was however a game I enjoyed a great deal. I also liked EQ2, but none of my friends were playing it. I ended up playing WoW like most people. I don't play it because I think it is the best game out. Hardly. It is a decent game, but I play it because it is the one my friends are playing and I would rather play with people that I have known for 20+ years than randoms. The issue is I prefer skill based progression over level based, but I have enjoyed some level based games. I also really couldn't get into EVE because it bored me. I have always prefered skill based progression in games. Even in pen and paper table top games I prefer the skill based systems.
Don't worry guys! I'm in the process of screening the most powerful psychics in the world to cross breed them with key people from the development teams of UO, DAoC, EQ and pre-NGE SWG! This should net me a team of super genius psyychic developers who can harness the power of a biometric way of coding I stole from a hidden top secret U.S. installation from Area 51!
Soon I will release a MMO that will be able to adapt to whatever the user desires on the fly! Just bear with me as the clones I need take time to mature (they have to do so naturally as to keep them stable) to the ripe age of 40. And we will get crackin on this project. Codename: PWNALL online. Target release date: 40 years(age of my team) + development time (10 years+) = 2060 4th QTR of course!
Hopefully some of you will still be alive to enjoy my masterpiece! I know I won't!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
It really doesnt matter what the reason is for the whine-fest around here, the MMORPG.com brds would be so much better if the mods either tacked a "Wah we want a sandbox" thread at the top of this forum, or made a dedicated forum for them ala the Vets. Then enforce their use.
Although it would go the way of the vet forum....they would cry there, and still whine in this general forum. A few bans would probably take care of it. If you pop into the SWG general game forum, the vets have been doing a lot more posting there as the vet forum has pretty much gone the way of SWG itself....that being a ghost-town. Only a few die-hards are left throwing their tantrums in that forum, and instead gotta go to one where they get attention. It is pathetic, yet invokes a sadistic smile from those of us laughing at them.
Something really needs to be done around here to make the forums a better experience. Practically every day new a post of "I miss X sandbox", or "Sandbox is the future" thread if created. It is the same discussion re-gurtitated ad-nauseum, and only serves to clutter the brd. IMO different discussions on varying topics would be much more enjoyeable rather than the drab "misery luvs company" that is the status quo.
Oh well it isnt my decision. I just know that with the forum PVP, that always goes on, it relegates this site to being a lot less popular than it cold be. There should be a much higher PVE/themepark following here, and it doesnt surprise me others dont wanna deal with all the insults/whining from the sandbox crowd.
Last time I checked this was MMORPG.com.....not sandbox.inc
And lastly....Medi-Mary Jane...you seem like an alright guy. Bit more high-strung than myself over this ongoing topic, but I am annoyed by it all myself. Really wish some folks would seek RL therapy over their gaming issues.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Probly too late in the thread for anyone to read this but here's my take:
The central problem is that we (mostly this means experienced gamers, like MMORPG forum'ers) are generally not finding the genre to be as exciting as it was previously. This is partly due to the reasons already pointed out: The genre has changed, there has been little of what I would call true innovation, and there is a lot of poor quality product on the market.
However, the major reason is always completely overlooked. It might make sense to get nostalgic over a 1935 Ford Model A -- because *in theory* a car company could build a car that recreated that experience again. The "first MMORPG experience" absolutely cannot be recreated, ever. The community of UO or Planetside or DAOC or EQ1 absolutely cannot ever be recreated. Even if a company made a modern game analogous to the modern 1935 Model A, and even if you could erase form your mind the experience of the past so that it would be "new" again, it absolutely cannot ever be the same.
In the UO days, every different type of MMO gamer was thrust into the same world. Ppl who wanted "fair" PvP, ppl who only wanted to gank, ppl who would take a fight if it came to them but mostly left others alone, ppl who didn't want to pvp at all, ppl who never wanted to leave town.
Today, each of those gamer types is demanding their own world. The very types upon which the UO experience depended (carebears, non-PvPers, and "take it as it comes" players) are not willing to play in a UO-style world. A critical ingredient is and will forever be missing.
Stop the nostalgia, people. You cannot go home again. The next exciting thing will probably come from a completely unexpected direction, and it will be radically different. You'll have the same thrill and fun, but it will never, ever, be like the early 2000's era again.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
i am going to write this in hopes that you understand I'm presenting my argument only theoretically and I don't feel this way towards any other game.
I believe part of the reason is the following mentality.
MrGeorge loves the World of Walnut pie. He's in love with it. He eats it for a few hours every day. But here's MrAdam. He tried it once but didn't like it. Now MrAdam found a different kind of pie: Age of Apple pie. Problem is his new pie is a fresh recepy, not yet popular in the village. But by not enjoying the World of Walnut pie, MrAdam has offended MrGeorge. What, is MrGeorge's pie not good enough? Is MrGeorge wrong to have these tastes? His pie is good, why won't MrAdam like it? It tastes fine. MrGeorge is eating it daily.
So now MrGeorge realises...this insult can easily be avenged. If Age of Apple pie is destroyed, or put out of business, MrAdam will crawl back to MrGeorge and appologise. Over a big slice of World of Walnut pie of course. So at this point the rest is history. MrGeorge starts attacking MrAdam's pie, MrAdam retaliates, fans on both sides begin to rally, and eventually the strongest pie-maker, typically the most popular and financially-stable wins.
Chapter 2: Now MrAdam is really after MrGeorge. The next pie-maker, no matter what it tastes like will get MrAdam's full support. It's WAR time. MrGeorge, however, victorious in this Pie-V-Pie encounter is craving for more. MrAdam is fighting a battle that is impossible. So why not engage him again in this pie WAR and win again. It's fun.
Chapter 3: MrAdam's more determined after yet another loss. MrGeorge loves the game after yet another win.
Chapters 4-125: See chapter 3.
The End.
---------------------------
simply put...grief.
Bumped because it's full of win. I agree that nostagia has everything to do with it, but this post covers *why* people battle over it, just for the sake of battling.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I think the reason for the hate is that mmorpgs occupy a unique place in gaming. They are rapidly changing and they each have a shelf life.
There are lots of games. Board games, card games, sports, games of chance, billiards, you name it. What they all have in common is they tend to settle upon some accepted rule set that doesn't change all that much over time. If you want to play 5 card stud poker, chess, pool, or whatever, you will be playing very close to the same way those games were played a hundred years ago or much longer. So once you find a game you like, you can enjoy it in much the same form your entire life.
Mmorpgs, on the other hand, are new and rapidly evolving. Almost every aspect of the gameplay is subject to a debate about whether that should be the method of gameplay.
So if you find a mmorpg you really like, unlike most games it can be completely shut down after a time. Then you go to find a new game like that one, only to discover the industry has completely screwed with how it is played.
Imagine you want to play cards and people have persuaded the people who make card decks that 12 cards is plenty, no need for 52 anymore - too hard. Rats!!!!
That's why I think you see so much hate, because while we call these things games they are really more like online adventures without a standardized ruleset or agreed upon objective and method of winning. Lots of people find something they like, and want to go on liking it, except it goes away or is changed to the point of being unrecognizable.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I've seen many posts by people who say they aren't playing any MMORPG's right now because "there aren't any good games". Should people who hate on MMO's all day, but can't even say they are even playing one, just admit they don't like MMO's?
Here is an interview from the HappyVille Pie Competition to illustrate my thoughts.
Or, consider that, no good MMORPGs have come out in the last 5 years. From 1997-2003 you had many new interesting MMOs coming out, all different from one another, all with innovative and interesting gameplay. From 2004-now, you've had almost entirely WoW/EQ clones. I got tired of EQ in 2001, I'm STILL tired of it in 2010, only difference now is there are no alternatives because they are the only ones being made.
Haters gonna hate? What a bunch of nonsense. Gamers dont like some games because they are no good, not the entire genre in itself.
You see alot of us gamers were around before WoW arrived and hijacked the genre and before greedy P2P game developers flooded the market with cheap WoW ripoffs. So dont assume we dont like the genre, we dont like all the garbage that is being released in the genre.
Because the way I see it a really good MMO hasn't been released yet. They are all too mainstream and too childish.
I am still confined to playing the nearly 10 year old game Neverwinter Nights because it is the only place where you can get a decent roleplaying experience online....
Haters gonna hate? What a bunch of nonsense. Gamers dont like some games because they are no good, not the entire genre in itself.
You see alot of us gamers were around before WoW arrived and hijacked the genre and before greedy P2P game developers flooded the market with cheap WoW ripoffs. So dont assume we dont like the genre, we dont like all the garbage that is being released in the genre.
...this is not the case for me personally though. I played (and am still playing) Neverwinter Nights 1 on online worlds...and haven't found something to measure up to that.
It is 10 year old and there is still nothing better...
MMORPG's used to be about adventure and socializing. Now they're about being better than everyone else. Better geared, better hardware, better addons, better guild...
I don't have a problem with competition itself, but what I'm refering to isn't competition in the sense of a game or a sport, it's that whole "keeping up with the Jones's" bullshit.
Take WOW for example. Yeah a new character can have a ton of fun while leveling (I did), doin quests, exploring, running dungeons with random people, trying out the pvp, or just goofing off. But once you hit 80 no one will let you do anything with them, or do anything with you if you don't have good gear. So before you are allowed to even play the game again you have to spend a ton of time just grinding gear.
That's another thing- I'm sorry, but leveling is NOT grinding. POWERLEVELING is grinding. That's why there's two different words for it... any game that doesn't let yoo do any fun social activities until you are max level is crap. And any game that doesn't have any social activities other than dungeons and raids is crap.
There should be several things in every mmo that every character, from the total newbs to the most op on the server, can all participate in. Currently the only thing every mmo lets every character participate in is the economy.
That's so lame.
Wow has the Darkmoon Farire, holiday events, and fishing events. But they never change.
Runescape has holiday events that are different every year, a ton of different minigames, and even a "drop party" room that high lvl players put items in to donate them to newbs who run around frantically to try to pop ballons containing the items. But that game is so simplistic 80% of the population logged in at any given time is gold farming bots (or mindless zombified grindfest players, but subjectively, there's no difference).
There are some mmo's that do cater to the social side of things. I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying that needs to be their MAIN focus, and it should NOT be "keeping up with the Jones's."
What's so terribly wrong with wanting a genre who's main purpose is socializing in a virtual world lacking real life limitations?
What's so terribly wrong with wanting game designers who act more like really creative hosts of a neverending party?
Sometimes gamers can create this atmosphere for themselves in sandbox games or rp servers, but that's basically like a party with no one playing the host. What always happens? Everyone gets smashed and passes out. That's only fun when you're underage, cause it's bad. Just like how kids like these mmo's, cause they get to swear and be mean to people and don't get in trouble.
Fuck.
That.
Shit.
There's so much more potential. And it's all being wasted. Not because there's a lack of creativity. They always PROMISE such cool things. And then they don't do it.
The only 2 things I can think of as to why they always fail to uphold their promises, is either their budget can't handle it, or they can't figure out how to program it.
It's been said in this topic before but I'll use my own words. . The Ford versus Chevy debate rages on in some parts of this country. . You think it's silly? Both are just cars? Or pickups? . People have died over this debate, alcohol being involved.
I think it's a mixture of both nostalgia for their first game and a refusal to accept reality as it is. Yes, it is a fact that games have changed. Why? Because the majority of people playing the games demanded it. People who started with and loved UO and EQ are going to have to get it through their heads that they're out of luck if those are the kinds of games they want to play. They are gone and never coming back, they are dinosaurs in the MMO world and, like it or not, are virtually extinct. So you either find a game that you like and play that, or stop playing MMOs entirely.
Personally, I agree, there are no games out there that I like, that's why I don't play any. I don't spend all my time sitting on a forum posting thread after thread bitching about it though.
I think it's a mixture of both nostalgia for their first game and a refusal to accept reality as it is. Yes, it is a fact that games have changed. Why? Because the majority of people playing the games demanded it. People who started with and loved UO and EQ are going to have to get it through their heads that they're out of luck if those are the kinds of games they want to play. They are gone and never coming back, they are dinosaurs in the MMO world and, like it or not, are virtually extinct. So you either find a game that you like and play that, or stop playing MMOs entirely.
Personally, I agree, there are no games out there that I like, that's why I don't play any. I don't spend all my time sitting on a forum posting thread after thread bitching about it though.
I think it's a mixture of both nostalgia for their first game and a refusal to accept reality as it is. Yes, it is a fact that games have changed. Why? Because the majority of people playing the games demanded it. People who started with and loved UO and EQ are going to have to get it through their heads that they're out of luck if those are the kinds of games they want to play. They are gone and never coming back, they are dinosaurs in the MMO world and, like it or not, are virtually extinct. So you either find a game that you like and play that, or stop playing MMOs entirely.
Personally, I agree, there are no games out there that I like, that's why I don't play any. I don't spend all my time sitting on a forum posting thread after thread bitching about it though.
No, you spend most of your time bitching about people bitching about MMORPG games. Not seeing much difference actually.
While I agree there is a small element of nostalgia, I do not have to accept the current state of game development regardless of its popularity and I'll continue to bitch about it long enough until some developer, somewhere makes a game more to my liking. Costs me nothing to do so and who knows, one day I might get lucky.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
FC-FamineFuncom Community ManagerMemberUncommonPosts: 278
Originally posted by Yamota
Haters gonna hate? What a bunch of nonsense. Gamers dont like some games because they are no good, not the entire genre in itself.
You see alot of us gamers were around before WoW arrived and hijacked the genre and before greedy P2P game developers flooded the market with cheap WoW ripoffs. So dont assume we dont like the genre, we dont like all the garbage that is being released in the genre.
F2P was out before WoW though. The first major announcement was in 1999 when Everquest was launched. Other than that, you have pay-to-play and micro-transaction text based games that were doing well. You also had gamer shops all around the world that allowed D&D campaigns, Magic The Gathering games and etc. Hobby Shops are your modern day free-to-play models where caffeine and sugar were your virtual items on top of selling D&D books, MTG packs and so on. It's free to play, but they hope you buy something in the store while you play.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Because complaining and wishing the old games were the norm is free and might get you somewhere (if you're delusional and you think you'll become the majority someday soon).
I think it's a mixture of both nostalgia for their first game and a refusal to accept reality as it is. Yes, it is a fact that games have changed. Why? Because the majority of people playing the games demanded it
Wrong. They just started selling MMOs to a different crowd of people. Oldschool MMOs didn't demand it, people that play MMOs now didn't demand it. The casuals didn't even know MMORPGs existed. So sorry, your argument is broken.
I also think that the period of 2000-2005 showed more innovation and progress regarding MMO's than the period of 2006-2010,
2006-2010 is the MMO bubble resulting from WoW's success. It will crash at some point when MMO hit saturation and then good MMO will be recognised. Currently we see a new MMO announced every week, it can't last.
Yep, And that good MMO will get millions of subs. It will become exteremly popular and then when the company that made it actually starts turning a major profit everyone will start to hate it and come here and complain that this New Game has destroyed MMO's. It's just like everyday life, a vicious cycle that won't end until we die.
Comments
2006-2010 is the MMO bubble resulting from WoW's success. It will crash at some point when MMO hit saturation and then good MMO will be recognised. Currently we see a new MMO announced every week, it can't last.
It has nothing to do with first experience, or nostalgia or anything like that. Some of us prefer a different style of gameplay than is currently being developed. I liked UO. It was my first MMO. After that I liked SWG, and no I am not one of those who think pre-cu was perfect. It was however a game I enjoyed a great deal. I also liked EQ2, but none of my friends were playing it. I ended up playing WoW like most people. I don't play it because I think it is the best game out. Hardly. It is a decent game, but I play it because it is the one my friends are playing and I would rather play with people that I have known for 20+ years than randoms. The issue is I prefer skill based progression over level based, but I have enjoyed some level based games. I also really couldn't get into EVE because it bored me. I have always prefered skill based progression in games. Even in pen and paper table top games I prefer the skill based systems.
Don't worry guys! I'm in the process of screening the most powerful psychics in the world to cross breed them with key people from the development teams of UO, DAoC, EQ and pre-NGE SWG! This should net me a team of super genius psyychic developers who can harness the power of a biometric way of coding I stole from a hidden top secret U.S. installation from Area 51!
Soon I will release a MMO that will be able to adapt to whatever the user desires on the fly! Just bear with me as the clones I need take time to mature (they have to do so naturally as to keep them stable) to the ripe age of 40. And we will get crackin on this project. Codename: PWNALL online. Target release date: 40 years(age of my team) + development time (10 years+) = 2060 4th QTR of course!
Hopefully some of you will still be alive to enjoy my masterpiece! I know I won't!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
It really doesnt matter what the reason is for the whine-fest around here, the MMORPG.com brds would be so much better if the mods either tacked a "Wah we want a sandbox" thread at the top of this forum, or made a dedicated forum for them ala the Vets. Then enforce their use.
Although it would go the way of the vet forum....they would cry there, and still whine in this general forum. A few bans would probably take care of it. If you pop into the SWG general game forum, the vets have been doing a lot more posting there as the vet forum has pretty much gone the way of SWG itself....that being a ghost-town. Only a few die-hards are left throwing their tantrums in that forum, and instead gotta go to one where they get attention. It is pathetic, yet invokes a sadistic smile from those of us laughing at them.
Something really needs to be done around here to make the forums a better experience. Practically every day new a post of "I miss X sandbox", or "Sandbox is the future" thread if created. It is the same discussion re-gurtitated ad-nauseum, and only serves to clutter the brd. IMO different discussions on varying topics would be much more enjoyeable rather than the drab "misery luvs company" that is the status quo.
Oh well it isnt my decision. I just know that with the forum PVP, that always goes on, it relegates this site to being a lot less popular than it cold be. There should be a much higher PVE/themepark following here, and it doesnt surprise me others dont wanna deal with all the insults/whining from the sandbox crowd.
Last time I checked this was MMORPG.com.....not sandbox.inc
And lastly....Medi-Mary Jane...you seem like an alright guy. Bit more high-strung than myself over this ongoing topic, but I am annoyed by it all myself. Really wish some folks would seek RL therapy over their gaming issues.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Probly too late in the thread for anyone to read this but here's my take:
The central problem is that we (mostly this means experienced gamers, like MMORPG forum'ers) are generally not finding the genre to be as exciting as it was previously. This is partly due to the reasons already pointed out: The genre has changed, there has been little of what I would call true innovation, and there is a lot of poor quality product on the market.
However, the major reason is always completely overlooked. It might make sense to get nostalgic over a 1935 Ford Model A -- because *in theory* a car company could build a car that recreated that experience again. The "first MMORPG experience" absolutely cannot be recreated, ever. The community of UO or Planetside or DAOC or EQ1 absolutely cannot ever be recreated. Even if a company made a modern game analogous to the modern 1935 Model A, and even if you could erase form your mind the experience of the past so that it would be "new" again, it absolutely cannot ever be the same.
In the UO days, every different type of MMO gamer was thrust into the same world. Ppl who wanted "fair" PvP, ppl who only wanted to gank, ppl who would take a fight if it came to them but mostly left others alone, ppl who didn't want to pvp at all, ppl who never wanted to leave town.
Today, each of those gamer types is demanding their own world. The very types upon which the UO experience depended (carebears, non-PvPers, and "take it as it comes" players) are not willing to play in a UO-style world. A critical ingredient is and will forever be missing.
Stop the nostalgia, people. You cannot go home again. The next exciting thing will probably come from a completely unexpected direction, and it will be radically different. You'll have the same thrill and fun, but it will never, ever, be like the early 2000's era again.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Bumped because it's full of win. I agree that nostagia has everything to do with it, but this post covers *why* people battle over it, just for the sake of battling.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I think the reason for the hate is that mmorpgs occupy a unique place in gaming. They are rapidly changing and they each have a shelf life.
There are lots of games. Board games, card games, sports, games of chance, billiards, you name it. What they all have in common is they tend to settle upon some accepted rule set that doesn't change all that much over time. If you want to play 5 card stud poker, chess, pool, or whatever, you will be playing very close to the same way those games were played a hundred years ago or much longer. So once you find a game you like, you can enjoy it in much the same form your entire life.
Mmorpgs, on the other hand, are new and rapidly evolving. Almost every aspect of the gameplay is subject to a debate about whether that should be the method of gameplay.
So if you find a mmorpg you really like, unlike most games it can be completely shut down after a time. Then you go to find a new game like that one, only to discover the industry has completely screwed with how it is played.
Imagine you want to play cards and people have persuaded the people who make card decks that 12 cards is plenty, no need for 52 anymore - too hard. Rats!!!!
That's why I think you see so much hate, because while we call these things games they are really more like online adventures without a standardized ruleset or agreed upon objective and method of winning. Lots of people find something they like, and want to go on liking it, except it goes away or is changed to the point of being unrecognizable.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
MMOs used to be games made by gamers for gamers. Now they are spreadsheets with graphics, made by corporations for profit. Go figure they are no fun.
Thats giving modern MMOs a lot of credit. Spreadsheets generally have a lot more depth than most modern MMOs.
Haters gonna hate? What a bunch of nonsense. Gamers dont like some games because they are no good, not the entire genre in itself.
You see alot of us gamers were around before WoW arrived and hijacked the genre and before greedy P2P game developers flooded the market with cheap WoW ripoffs. So dont assume we dont like the genre, we dont like all the garbage that is being released in the genre.
My gaming blog
In reply to the OP.
Because the way I see it a really good MMO hasn't been released yet. They are all too mainstream and too childish.
I am still confined to playing the nearly 10 year old game Neverwinter Nights because it is the only place where you can get a decent roleplaying experience online....
Buy Neverwinter Nights 1 here! | Unofficial NWN1 homepage | NWN1 guild on X-Fire
Very very true
The people you are describing played wow and got bored, now there is no MMO that can compare to how awesome wow is for them
bwahaha I just had to say it...
Youre probably right Teknique,
...this is not the case for me personally though. I played (and am still playing) Neverwinter Nights 1 on online worlds...and haven't found something to measure up to that.
It is 10 year old and there is still nothing better...
Buy Neverwinter Nights 1 here! | Unofficial NWN1 homepage | NWN1 guild on X-Fire
MMORPG's used to be about adventure and socializing. Now they're about being better than everyone else. Better geared, better hardware, better addons, better guild...
I don't have a problem with competition itself, but what I'm refering to isn't competition in the sense of a game or a sport, it's that whole "keeping up with the Jones's" bullshit.
Take WOW for example. Yeah a new character can have a ton of fun while leveling (I did), doin quests, exploring, running dungeons with random people, trying out the pvp, or just goofing off. But once you hit 80 no one will let you do anything with them, or do anything with you if you don't have good gear. So before you are allowed to even play the game again you have to spend a ton of time just grinding gear.
That's another thing- I'm sorry, but leveling is NOT grinding. POWERLEVELING is grinding. That's why there's two different words for it... any game that doesn't let yoo do any fun social activities until you are max level is crap. And any game that doesn't have any social activities other than dungeons and raids is crap.
There should be several things in every mmo that every character, from the total newbs to the most op on the server, can all participate in. Currently the only thing every mmo lets every character participate in is the economy.
That's so lame.
Wow has the Darkmoon Farire, holiday events, and fishing events. But they never change.
Runescape has holiday events that are different every year, a ton of different minigames, and even a "drop party" room that high lvl players put items in to donate them to newbs who run around frantically to try to pop ballons containing the items. But that game is so simplistic 80% of the population logged in at any given time is gold farming bots (or mindless zombified grindfest players, but subjectively, there's no difference).
There are some mmo's that do cater to the social side of things. I'm not saying they don't. I'm saying that needs to be their MAIN focus, and it should NOT be "keeping up with the Jones's."
What's so terribly wrong with wanting a genre who's main purpose is socializing in a virtual world lacking real life limitations?
What's so terribly wrong with wanting game designers who act more like really creative hosts of a neverending party?
Sometimes gamers can create this atmosphere for themselves in sandbox games or rp servers, but that's basically like a party with no one playing the host. What always happens? Everyone gets smashed and passes out. That's only fun when you're underage, cause it's bad. Just like how kids like these mmo's, cause they get to swear and be mean to people and don't get in trouble.
Fuck.
That.
Shit.
There's so much more potential. And it's all being wasted. Not because there's a lack of creativity. They always PROMISE such cool things. And then they don't do it.
The only 2 things I can think of as to why they always fail to uphold their promises, is either their budget can't handle it, or they can't figure out how to program it.
It's been said in this topic before but I'll use my own words.
.
The Ford versus Chevy debate rages on in some parts of this country.
.
You think it's silly? Both are just cars? Or pickups?
.
People have died over this debate, alcohol being involved.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I think it's a mixture of both nostalgia for their first game and a refusal to accept reality as it is. Yes, it is a fact that games have changed. Why? Because the majority of people playing the games demanded it. People who started with and loved UO and EQ are going to have to get it through their heads that they're out of luck if those are the kinds of games they want to play. They are gone and never coming back, they are dinosaurs in the MMO world and, like it or not, are virtually extinct. So you either find a game that you like and play that, or stop playing MMOs entirely.
Personally, I agree, there are no games out there that I like, that's why I don't play any. I don't spend all my time sitting on a forum posting thread after thread bitching about it though.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I think it's a mixture of both nostalgia for their first game and a refusal to accept reality as it is. Yes, it is a fact that games have changed. Why? Because the majority of people playing the games demanded it. People who started with and loved UO and EQ are going to have to get it through their heads that they're out of luck if those are the kinds of games they want to play. They are gone and never coming back, they are dinosaurs in the MMO world and, like it or not, are virtually extinct. So you either find a game that you like and play that, or stop playing MMOs entirely.
Personally, I agree, there are no games out there that I like, that's why I don't play any. I don't spend all my time sitting on a forum posting thread after thread bitching about it though.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
No, you spend most of your time bitching about people bitching about MMORPG games. Not seeing much difference actually.
While I agree there is a small element of nostalgia, I do not have to accept the current state of game development regardless of its popularity and I'll continue to bitch about it long enough until some developer, somewhere makes a game more to my liking. Costs me nothing to do so and who knows, one day I might get lucky.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
F2P was out before WoW though. The first major announcement was in 1999 when Everquest was launched. Other than that, you have pay-to-play and micro-transaction text based games that were doing well. You also had gamer shops all around the world that allowed D&D campaigns, Magic The Gathering games and etc. Hobby Shops are your modern day free-to-play models where caffeine and sugar were your virtual items on top of selling D&D books, MTG packs and so on. It's free to play, but they hope you buy something in the store while you play.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Because complaining and wishing the old games were the norm is free and might get you somewhere (if you're delusional and you think you'll become the majority someday soon).
Kyleran said it well.
Wrong. They just started selling MMOs to a different crowd of people. Oldschool MMOs didn't demand it, people that play MMOs now didn't demand it. The casuals didn't even know MMORPGs existed. So sorry, your argument is broken.
Yep, And that good MMO will get millions of subs. It will become exteremly popular and then when the company that made it actually starts turning a major profit everyone will start to hate it and come here and complain that this New Game has destroyed MMO's. It's just like everyday life, a vicious cycle that won't end until we die.
so true so true
Darqk hit it right on the head there. QFT!
I do not get too caught up in the hate so much or the fanboy so much.
It is the damn QUOTE WARS that get me.
Damn box within a box within a box with special colors and text and more at the bottom with more and some colors and gah!
Makes my eyes bleed.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.