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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Space Combat
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
After Bioware's announcement that Star Wars: The Old Republic would feature space combat, forum buzz across the 'Net began. Some wondered if space combat meant mini-games. Others opined that it meant fully-featured immersive combat that would enhance and complement the ground game. This week, MMORPG.com's Mike Bitton takes on the issue of space combat, discussing his hopes and concerns.
“How can you release a Star Wars game without space?” This is a valid concern to be sure and there is some precedent for such thinking. Bioware had been relatively hush-hush on anything space-related up until E3 2010 where they revealed player starships as a feature for the game, though they described the feature as being very similar to the way player starships were represented in the Knights of the Old Republic games. For those who don’t know, the Ebon Hawk in KOTOR and KOTOR II really only served as a base of operations and a hub from which to travel to locations across the galaxy (selected by way of a galaxy map). If this was to be the limit of the player starships feature, fans were decidedly underwhelmed. The hopeful hold-outs for a full fledged space component were left, ironically, less hopeful after the reveal of player starships at E3.
Read SWTOR: Space Combat and add your voice to the discussion.
Comments
An Xwing v Tie style game, on a massive scale, where you can jump between systems, or fly through them in real time with hundreds or thousands of people would be awesome - however, being realistic, its probably going to be a star map like STO, with a set of instanced areas where 5 or 6 of you can go and play a scripted short battle by pressing 1 to 9.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/jtl/
Just too bad they ruined the game and failed to put the bounties in space aswell otherwise it was pretty much a space combat game in the MMO 100%
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
Yes, I'm sure BioWare wasn't going to release the information anyhow. Thanks for potentially coercing them in the right direction.
Seriously though, it was all free hype-building/marketing for them. There was no way they would have held that information back, regardless of how many followers they gained.
I agree that an improved JTL should be the goal of BW on the space combat- that was practically right on the money, just minus any real incentive. I enjoyed it more than X-Wing versus Tie Fighter due to the depth, immersion, etc.
As long as this feature isn't gimicky or some kind of minigame I think it will be great. If it resembles what JTL offered or Xwing vs Tie Fighter of the past I think it will be awesome. We'll just have to wait and see.
Steam: Neph
JTL was the best part and still is the best part of SWG. After the NGE hit I spent about 90% of my time doing space stuff. Having mastered all 3 of my toons. My jedi flew at yt1300, yt2400 and a jsf, My by flew a yt1300, 2400, heavy xwing, and my combat medic flew a decimator, heavy tie and jsf. All of them at master.
The space combat was great. I do miss it but its not worth the 15 bucks a month to go fly now, maybee swg should go ft2.
Her is to hoping we get great swg type of space combat.
I would love to see X-wing Alliance brought to life in SW:TOR. However as you said, being realistic JTL would be a good benchmark to aim for. I personally loved JTL and it really brought something out of SWG - especially the multiplayer ships which while they were a nightmare to co-ordinate together, really made it fun.
I'll have my new PC tested and waiting for when this game launches, can still hop to FinalFantasy when it turns out to be overly hyped. (or finally go for some of those DX10, DX11 games). Primary goal is a to find a decent P2P MMO though. (which is something i'd never do for those F2P dumbed down / minimal content MMO games)
The other possibility that is not mentioned anywhere (except maybe alluded to by Bioware) is that the "combat" part of space will be EXACTLY like it was in KOTOR I & II. In other words, a very simple "you man a turret" and "your ship flies itself" sort of combat. I would love for that to NOT BE THE CASE because that is not the type of space combat that people are going to expect. In fact, if what I suspect is true, I would rather not have space combat at all since it really won't be fun.
Let's party like it is 1863!
If it resembles JTL then it would awesome. I can't see it happening but it would nerdgasmic if it does.
I know I'm going to be the eternal optimist here, but if I were BioWare/LA, why would I put a Space component in my great-big-awesome-new-MMO-monster that was not at least as compelling as JTL...LA is knee deep in this project as well...They know with all the problems SWG had, JTL was actually quite successful...Especially when you compare it to all the problems they had with the ground Game...So why in the world would they make a Space element to SWTOR that is less desirable than JTL?...I think for the most part JTL rocked...Especially as a side-game venture...They've got a decent model from which to start from...
It would seem to me that the first thing brought up in that 1st meeting about Space Combat would be; "We at least need to make this as good as JTL...That's bare minimum."
I know...I know...Optimism...
Personally, unless I like feel the space portion of the game is good, and JTL was good(not quite flying with Vader style from Tiefighter good, but good enough for an MMO) I will pick it up. If its some waterdowned backwater swamp style low thought out pile I think a lot of people are going to pass on it. Especially if it ends up like a STO experience.
Yeah but, but they will have Seth Green piloting! How can you not be excited for that?
SWTOR - just has to be a combination of the best MS Flight Sim and Falcon 4.0 and it will be fine... yep.
i think the fact that they refer to it as "space combat" not "space gameplay" pretty much says it all. i'm very skeptical about the announcement and think it sounds very mini-gamish.
the key to good space content is not how robust the combat itself is (x-wing type vs. eve type vs. turret type) but rather what it adds to the rest of the gameplay experience - when do you need to go to space? what can i accomplish in space? how does it effect the rest of the game and my character's development? If i raid some spice factory in a ground-based mission, can i then smuggle the spice out on my ship to some distant place? what's involved in this?
How do the two most space-relevant classes - smuggler and bounty hunter - use space for their respective professions? Can BH's track quarries from ground to space and back? board their ships, be chased by people trying to rescue the quarry, etc? Are ships stopped by checkpoints or chased by planetary border patrols to prevent smuggling? This is what makes for compelling space content. It really doesn't matter a whole lot how good the shooting mechanism is.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
If we have to go by online space games, Jumpgate classic and Vendetta Online would make for much more valid benchmarks than JTL. The ships in those games handle a lot better and dogfights provide a certain rush.
Of course, if you're not going for pure dogfighting, an X3-type space experience would be perfect in and of itself... but adding something like that into what's primarily your conventional RPG game would not make much sense, to be honest. The play styles are so different it would either come across as two separate games or just a gimmick.
But then, as long as you don't go with point-and-click, ability-mashing sort of space combat, this is already running the risk of being just that, isn't it?
What is funny about this thread is most SWG players HATED JTL when it came out... becuase it wasn't part of the game. I repetadly mention it as my favorite x-pack ever.. as it added an entire new game to the exsisting one. if anyoen cares my second fav was daocs si .. why you ask classes were added (6 new classes w/ one xpack.. snap thats as many as some games have total) that had unique abilities ... something most dev. are too scared to do much of these days (not every ability they had was unique but quite a few).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
While Im not trying to defend Cash Shops and I personally dont like them much, I do have to note that I think these arguments against cash shops, especially the OP's argument, are faulty. Many on here claim that it is immoral to pay for extra content while they have already purchased the game and pay a monthly fee, everyone is not realizing where cash shops originated from.
Think about this for a second. While cash shops are relatively new, the idea has been around ever since MMO's have been around, and players have all agreed to the practice. With the exception of "F2P" games and EVE online, every MMO has been charging for something after one has purchased the game and paid the monthly subscription. Those things are called: EXPANSION PACKS. Every MMO, with the above exceptions, releases Expansion packs that are required to be paid by current subscribers to access new content. *GASP*
So like I said, I think the OP's argument of " I paid for the game already, I should have access to all the content" is not valid, because only one game as far as I know releases new content that you do not have to pay for, which is EVE Online. Cash Shop items are basically expansion packs broken into bits and pieces, and you should look at them as nothing but that. Again to reiterate, when you are paying for cash shop items, you are paying for bits and pieces of an expansion
Now as for the prices, thats what I think is immoral, because expansions are essentially more bang for your buck, since they have more content for a smaller price, but thats an entirely different argument altogether.
I think you got the wrong thread
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
JTL was the best part of SWG, and the only part of it post NGE that was worth bothering with, if Bioware can introduce the same levels of complexity into their Starwars game then i might even be persuaded to give it a whirl myself, JTL still remains the only viable part of SWG imo.
Would hope for a space combat simular to Eve Online, but I doubt that will happen.
Star Wars Galaxies Space Combat attracts a much broader playerbase than SWG would have ever on its own. Space in SWG is integrated into the game economy.. via loot, crafting, questing and collection systems. Its is own 'profession' but is also cobbled into the greater Galactic Civil War (GCW) factional point system as well.
The amazing parts of Galaxies is how it makes you feel. The looks, the sounds.. the ability to walk around on certain POB (Player on Board) ships.. the ability to make your ship your home (ala Han Solo concept).. and of course the ability to get into a hairball PvP or PvE combat was a big attraction for this game.
The Old Replubic is MUCH better off modelling SWG version of space integration than just a stand alone 'instanced' sub-game. They have the budget to blow Galaxies Jump to Lightspeed out of the water if they want to. Popular SWG space-related feature requests include:
Boarding Parties: Ability to disable a ships engines and launch a raiding/boarding party. Classic Star Wars in any time-line.
Space Bounties: But that depends on if TOR will have a Personal Bounty System (PBS) like SWG has. I doubt it will, based on what I've seen so far.
Customizing like making your own ship variants and components: Something Star Trek Online does rather well (for looks) and Galaxies does spectacularly (crafting/reverse engineering) for upgrading a ships performance.
The game has to feel like a CHARACTER inside a SHIP.. not just a 'ship' with no character (sorry EvE folks, this is my #1 peave with that game.. meatsack inside a PoD is not something I can relate to). Star Trek Online is opening up more and more parts of their ships internal layouts.... Star Wars Galaxies already has several ships you can move within.. including very large mining vessels and gunboats.
If BIOWARE treats their Space system with the same budget and depth as they do the 'ground' game, then it should be a real hit and attrack a VERY loyal playerbase for even that 1 part of the game.
We definately need more information. I am OK with a 'lighter' version at launch (ie: not a lot of ships/quests for starters), so long as the Space-Systems is not coded in such a way as to restrict is future expansion/integration into the greater Meta-Game.
Space quests are fun too.. if done properly. Mixed Space/Boarding/Ground quests is the triple threat of any Star Wars MMO... and I hope BIOWARE and Lucas Arts recognize that an allocate the proper resources to tap into it properly.
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)
I'm getting more and more excited about this game. I can't wait.
Depth? Jump to Lightspeed had depth?
Its the most shallow space flight simulator ever created!
I guess you mean because it had lots of ship parts that people could make.
Lets not confuse a nice crafting angle with "depth" however....
X-Wing / TIE Fighter / XvT / X-Wing Alliance was 100 times more robust and deep than JTL EVER was.
This was a really disappointing article and I knew it from the introduction alone.
Michael mentioned having "low expectations" for TOR's showing at Comic Con, and then somehow believes that his predictions were right? I watched the entire panel and sent a link to it to all my friends who are following TOR with me. I must have had 6 hours worth of conversations between them all regarding the things discussed on that panel alone and that wasn't even 50% because of Space Combat announcement.
If you've been following the game, there are many nuances about game play that followers of TOR have been stressing over that have never been fully discussed conceptually. Things like how story will be developed and how a group setting maintains that story, how the light/dark system will work given the single/multiplayer questing experiences, flashpoints, companions. These are things that the official site and the MMORPG community have discussed in length. I fail to see how ellaborating on things we don't know about AND giving us such a shocking announcement as Space Combat could possibly be considered a bad showing. Perhaps you have stupidly high expectation due to the budget of this game? But if that's the case I'd recommend you drop your misconceptions. You can't judge a game based on it's budget. If the game is REALLY fun, but not as fun as you THOUGHT it would be, will you quit simply because "given the budget it should have been better?" If the game is bad come launch then players would have every right to complain about the quality of the game given such a huge budget. Regardless, I think your views on how the rest of the community felt about the Comic Con showing were dead wrong.
The article picked up a little speed when you began to discuss the finer aspects of the Space Combat decision, despite the poor intro, but it really only ever discussed things everyone has already said. There was no truly original thoughts here. Just another speculation about how Space Combat probably won't be like games X, Y, or Z, but that they have so much money that they should be. That, paired with the lengthy SWG:JTL review just really disappointed.
I understand this is a column and you are entirely entitled to your opinions. However you should maintain them without using wording that suggests the community agrees with you.
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
Its the most shallow space flight simulator ever created!
I guess you mean because it had lots of ship parts that people could make.
Lets not confuse a nice crafting angle with "depth" however....
X-Wing / TIE Fighter / XvT / X-Wing Alliance was 100 times more robust and deep than JTL EVER was.
This.
Piloting a ship in JTL is just like flying a TIE-Fighter in molasses.
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