I did mention Vanguard just a handful of posts ago, but even it had it's shortcomings. It was nice that you could focus on crafting, combat or diplomacy, however in order to craft, you actually had to do combat or know someone who did. Could just level an alt and then transfer the mats to a non-combat crafter, which apparently was fairly popular.
Another game besides Eve and Vanguard that had a good system but was a very short-lived mmo was Earth and Beyond. Materials were fairly random to come by, aside from the mined stuff, and then crafting things you could make items up to a 200% quality (though that was exceedingly rare) - the big drawback in that game as far as items/crafting was that there was no way to repair stuff, so even if you did get that uber 200% quality item, you didnt want to use it, cuz it lost quality and, as it lost quality it lost stats. But it had a good base to the system. Too bad nobody's convinced EA to sell that engine, and make it into an mmo on a console. Game was simple enough to work on a PS3 or 360...heck probably the Wii even with it's outdated engine/graphics now =P
I prefer a crafting system where the crafter has use for items found in combat and raids, but does not need to be there themselves. If I want to be a crafter, don't force me to also be a raider if I want to make the best gear. Let the combat guys do that, and they sell it to me, or pay me to make something for them....you know like it works in real life.
Also, EVE has a good crafting system in that most everything in the game is from crafting. If all the crafters stopped in EVE the economy would fail and the game would follow. This reliance on crafting to supply the goods to the game makes you feel like crafting is on par with combat, and just as important if not more.
Earthrise is said to really almost exclusively on crafter goods, so that will be yet another game where crafters are extremely important. And, in Earthrise, raw materials and components do have grade values, so there won't be 100,000 of the same exact item, unless they all used exactly the same grade material for all their components. This allows crafters to seek higher value mats, and allows adventurers an income opportunity for finding this higher level materials.
As others have stated, the outlook of this article is determined by the two individuals you interviewed. The crafting systems they promote are neither what I and, I supsect, many other avid crafters want out of the system nor are they an exshaustive indication of what currently exists in the genre. That being said, I understand you are limited by who will respond to your requests for interview and nonetheless I find it an intriguing article and topic.
What we are getting from a lot of crafting systems at the moment is a simple, open to all system with homogeneous sub-par gear that often puts progress bars and random number generation above skill, experimentation and effort because it is easier to code and balance.
I imagine this is a satisfactory system for many gamers who receive no significant sense of achievement from crafting but to most crafters I imagine it feels like a patronising waste of time.
The foundations of the current crafting system are only well set in so far as individual developers accept them as the best or most adequate way of doing things. Personally I would like to think there are enough creative people left in the industry to follow alternative roots, as other games mentioned by posters in this thread have done and are doing.
Resource collection exactly like SWG, don't fix what isn't broken.
Mobs are a source of resouce not loot. Humanoid mobs can drop components or some reverse engineering of existing otherwise poor quality weapons just with specials.
Crafting is a non-combat profession, one or the either both are as vital to the game as the other. People complaining that having crafting proffessions in a game are the bitches who are the first to moan that they can't do everything with the same character. While not everyone wants to craft there aree those that love it and they will control the markets, if you don't like crafting you can contribute by selling your materials etc but you can't complain about being left out of a part of the game you have no interest in.
Degredation of items on use is a must.
Having a crafting mechanic similar to vanguard for the creation of an individual item or blueprint would be good and then factories, simialr to SWG for mass production.
As with any element in an mmo the game must be built around it. You can't make an mmo and then add a decent crafting system, it just doesn't work that way. The bonus with adding a decent crafting system with the mechanics to make it work is that you make a decent economy much more likely. People feel as though they are part of a society in a world.
Now to answer the OP, there have been good variations on crafting in some games, unfortunately they have also had some pretty drastic holes elsewhere in the gameplay. WoW doesn't have crafting at all and whether we like it or not we have to accept that a lot of players come from that background and simply don't see it as an integrual part of a good mmo. For that reason it's unlikely many of the AAA titles will 'waste' resouces on it when designing.
An awesome crafting system alone does not make a game, but it can make a game great.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I have tried tons of games out there and have yet to find a meaningful worthwhile crafting system, that I enjoy. I did not even enjoy Fallen Earth's crafting, which many people say is the best thing about the game. I have heard some stuff about SWG crafting pre-NGE that sounded pretty appealing to me. Especially variation on the location and type of materials. All in all I like the idea of crafting, but I've yet to find an implementation I enjoy.
The problem I see with most traditional crafting is that it is designed so that everyone can participate in it. Players are expected, and largley encouraged, to become crafters of some type or another, which effectively dilutes its overall importance.
First off, crafted items should account for the majority of all items found in a game, aside from the raw resources required to make them. This applies to anything adventurers actually use in the field like equipment and consumables, as well as to simple QOL items and fluff. Almost everything a player uses can trace its origin back to another player's hand.
Next, create a system where anyone can be a layman, but few will ever master, and those that have become masters have done so by forgoing their progression in most other aspects of the game. Basically, if you want to play a Knight(-ish) character, you can learn to hammer out dents in armor and fix broken straps, but you would need a specialist to add an inlaid design of your coat of arms to a shield, or set a gemstone into your sword's pommel. Only those that have spent their careers honing their crafting skills can do such things. And even though they can forge the sharpest of blades, they will never be able to wield them effectively. That should be the price of excellence.
Finally, make it so that no crafted item is inherently worthless. Allow existing items to continuously be improved upon, rather than discarded when something new with slightly higher stats drops. Hypothetically, the armor you start your career with can be the very same armor you end it with, although, through a series of upgrades and enchantments, it's far more powerful and aesthetically interesting. Then allow these pieces to be further infused so that they become heirlooms dedicated to either a bloodline (a player's alts), their house or guild, or or to a certain class or in-game following, which restricts its use to just that group. But to do any of this, you would require skilled artisans to actually perform the upgrades and cast the enchantments on your behalf.
By reducing the number of crafters in the world through streamlining their advancement into their chosen fields, it makes their value that much greater. Basically, crafting would take it's place alongside adventuring, rather than being a tacked on time sink that adventurers can also do if they're bored and feel like kicking it in town for a while while they chat. By making it and either/or decision to become a great crafter or great adventurer, you effectively limit the number of people willing to make the investment to go down that path. Many players would never choose to craft under any circumstance, and many others simply wouldn't be willing to give up the action of being under fire out in the field. But there will always be a few that would happily give up adventuring to earn the title of Master Craftsman.
Crafting in MMOs is a topic of great interest to me but the interview didn't really feel very enlightening. It seemed to be focused on tweaks and continuity for a game or two rather than anything fundementally new for the industry.
The Best Crafting I have ever played was in Pre Trammel UO...There the best thing you can buy is what is crafted by Blacksmiths and Tailors and made a real good Crafting System...I wish they would bring it back...I still remember goin to Blacksmith to buy that new Shadow Chain suit of Armor and it was very entertaining
The problem I see with most traditional crafting is that it is designed so that everyone can participate in it. Players are expected, and largley encouraged, to become crafters of some type or another, which effectively dilutes its overall importance.
First off, crafted items should account for the majority of all items found in a game, aside from the raw resources required to make them. This applies to anything adventurers actually use in the field like equipment and consumables, as well as to simple QOL items and fluff. Almost everything a player uses can trace its origin back to another player's hand.
Next, create a system where anyone can be a layman, but few will ever master, and those that have become masters have done so by forgoing their progression in most other aspects of the game. Basically, if you want to play a Knight(-ish) character, you can learn to hammer out dents in armor and fix broken straps, but you would need a specialist to add an inlaid design of your coat of arms to a shield, or set a gemstone into your sword's pommel. Only those that have spent their careers honing their crafting skills can do such things. And even though they can forge the sharpest of blades, they will never be able to wield them effectively. That should be the price of excellence.
Finally, make it so that no crafted item is inherently worthless. Allow existing items to continuously be improved upon, rather than discarded when something new with slightly higher stats drops. Hypothetically, the armor you start your career with can be the very same armor you end it with, although, through a series of upgrades and enchantments, it's far more powerful and aesthetically interesting. Then allow these pieces to be further infused so that they become heirlooms dedicated to either a bloodline (a player's alts), their house or guild, or or to a certain class or in-game following, which restricts its use to just that group. But to do any of this, you would require skilled artisans to actually perform the upgrades and cast the enchantments on your behalf.
By reducing the number of crafters in the world through streamlining their advancement into their chosen fields, it makes their value that much greater. Basically, crafting would take it's place alongside adventuring, rather than being a tacked on time sink that adventurers can also do if they're bored and feel like kicking it in town for a while while they chat. By making it and either/or decision to become a great crafter or great adventurer, you effectively limit the number of people willing to make the investment to go down that path. Many players would never choose to craft under any circumstance, and many others simply wouldn't be willing to give up the action of being under fire out in the field. But there will always be a few that would happily give up adventuring to earn the title of Master Craftsman.
Well said, the problem with some craftsmen, is they want their 'uber loot' too, without the killing of the big baddies. The problem arises when, lotsa raiders raid 5 hours 5-6 days a week with 50+ people, it takes about a year or sometimes 2 to get all the top end raid gear out of a new expansion, for everybody. Ok, so that takes up around 50,000 man hours a year, give or take. Now we get the crafters, that don't want to contribute to this, they want to make this gear, that's equivelent, and sell it for a profit, how long did it take them really, to max out their crafting skill so 'grand master xx' can make a full suit and sell it on the market. In EQ and WoW, if you really wanted to you can max your crafting 'skill' in a couple days if you have a bankroll. Of course some people with alotta time on their hands would do both, but seriously, I wouldn't see the point of raiding anymore, when not even a fraction of the manhours could be spent sewing uber peice of gear together. Crafters don't work to help other people, it's usually greed that drives the crafting community, but that's true about raiding too. If anything, I think crafters should have to stick to making low end hardware (stick to gearing up the noobies), armor repairs, food, poisons, etc. Maybe a grand master blacksmith knows how to temper armor to add a little more value to it, but outright making raid quality gear without having to spend the same amount of hours, or the fighting to do it, is out of the question.
They want mats to drop off the raid mobs, just so we can take our mats to a GM Blacksmith so we can also pay them to complete our armor for us (but who knows when that damn blacksmith will be on!!)..This sort of system would make me very angry. I would like to know when a crafter has died 20 times in a row when learning a new way to craft iron ore. Right now you can buy every mat, where's the risk? There isn't any!
I prefer a crafting system where the crafter has use for items found in combat and raids, but does not need to be there themselves. If I want to be a crafter, don't force me to also be a raider if I want to make the best gear. Let the combat guys do that, and they sell it to me, or pay me to make something for them....you know like it works in real life.
--------------------------------
No, I would not be a fan of a system like ^. Not even the employees who build Bugatti's are able to own them. You have to be a status symbol. Not even rich people can 'own' them. If you want the best, you should work just as hard. I don't qualify clicking 'combine' as work at all.
Well said, the problem with some craftsmen, is they want their 'uber loot' too, without the killing of the big baddies. The problem arises when, lotsa raiders raid 5 hours 5-6 days a week with 50+ people, it takes about a year or sometimes 2 to get all the top end raid gear out of a new expansion, for everybody. Ok, so that takes up around 50,000 man hours a year, give or take. Now we get the crafters, that don't want to contribute to this, they want to make this gear, that's equivelent, and sell it for a profit, how long did it take them really, to max out their crafting skill so 'grand master xx' can make a full suit and sell it on the market. In EQ and WoW, if you really wanted to you can max your crafting 'skill' in a couple days if you have a bankroll. Of course some people with alotta time on their hands would do both, but seriously, I wouldn't see the point of raiding anymore, when not even a fraction of the manhours could be spent sewing uber peice of gear together. Crafters don't work to help other people, it's usually greed that drives the crafting community, but that's true about raiding too. If anything, I think crafters should have to stick to making low end hardware (stick to gearing up the noobies), armor repairs, food, poisons, etc. Maybe a grand master blacksmith knows how to temper armor to add a little more value to it, but outright making raid quality gear without having to spend the same amount of hours, or the fighting to do it, is out of the question.
They want mats to drop off the raid mobs, just so we can take our mats to a GM Blacksmith so we can also pay them to complete our armor for us (but who knows when that damn blacksmith will be on!!)..This sort of system would make me very angry. I would like to know when a crafter has died 20 times in a row when learning a new way to craft iron ore. Right now you can buy every mat, where's the risk? There isn't any!
Remember though that crafter who reach the pinnacle of their profession wouldn't be able to make use of that uber gear because they've spent their careers tinkering rather than adventuring. They can make gear for others but can't actually make use of it themselves. The exception to this would be fluff items or anything else that doesn't require any skill to use, such as consumables, toys, mini-pets, clothing, etc.
As for the path being quicker and easier for crafters, don't be limited by how things have been done in the past with other games. While it's true that in WoW, you could cap you profession in a day if you had enough coin, there's absolutely nothing to say that all systems must be structured in this way. In fact, if done properly, it should take roughly twice as long for a crafter to master his profession as it takes for an adventurer to begin wading into end-game content. I'm all in favore of making it a grindy, long and at times, boring process, if for no other reason than to discourage everyone from bothering to attempt it.
I just feel that as in RL, people gravitate to their niches. Not everyone can cook, not everyone can fix a car and not everyone can make their own clothing. For most of us, if we want fine food, a working automobile or not to have to wander around in our birthday suits (yeah, I know some people would prefer just that), we go to the people who do know how to do that.
I can easily see this working in a game. It's a just a matter of mechanics development resources.
SWG and EVE had/have the best crafting in an MMO. Vanguard and Fallen Earth come next. And like some others have posted, lets have crafted items with variable stats decided by crafting station, crafter level, material input toss in some degradation and wear, and not jsut repair costs, but material needed to repair as well. Could even have a drop in max "leevel" of an item each time it is repaired; no gear lasting forever.
+1 10 char
/sign
Variable stats and material decay make things interesting. Crafting that allows flexibility to the schematic creates a sub game as players search for the best combinations of materials. I also like the ability to fail. I mean it sucks, but when there is risk it is more entertaining. It would be really cool if you could assemble your own items out of a set of base sub conponents. Want a super cool pistol, just stick on more barrels and maybe an extra trigger for good luck 8)
* I read most of what Jon Wood writes * He needs more bullet points though
I understand from reading a couple of beta posts that Mortal Online has a unique crafting system, where you can put different materials in and it affects the final product, even to the point of showing it. Put a gold handle on a sword, you see a gold-handled sword, and it's heavier and has a different speed to the swing as a result.
Unfortunately, it seems to be a not-quite-done game, and a gank-fest as well, so I can't vouch for it.
There are lots of comments above that I agree on regarding making any crafting worth the time and keeping it's products in demand. More developers should consider those ideas above.
I want to point out a dynamic in EVE that's escaped comment here. EVE has bassically three "types" of pilots (though you can customize however you want). Harvesters (miners), crafters (industrialists), and DPS (combat) pilots. The Miners need the combat pilots to protect them when they harvest the good stuff. The industrialists need the miners to provide the materials to run their factories and produce their crafted goods. The combat pilot needs access to all the crafted goods, since the player items really drive the economy and provide 80% of what the combat pilots expends and needs to replace in a frequent basis (not to mention the parts for upgrading their ships).
It's a very simple system of mutual need that rewards all three in significant ways and keeps the harvesting/crafting/DPS products in high demand.
If I wanted to cut down a tree and make some furniture, I'd do it in my own backyard. Get rid of the crafting crap and focus on making a better game.
What if u wanted to make starship or magical sword or imperial scout blaster.... gonna run out side and whip up one those from that tree u cut down too? that be amazing... let alone if u could actually build furniture out of a tree in ur back yard....
SWG and EVE had/have the best crafting in an MMO. Vanguard and Fallen Earth come next. And like some others have posted, lets have crafted items with variable stats decided by crafting station, crafter level, material input toss in some degradation and wear, and not jsut repair costs, but material needed to repair as well. Could even have a drop in max "leevel" of an item each time it is repaired; no gear lasting forever.
+1 10 char
/sign
Variable stats and material decay make things interesting. Crafting that allows flexibility to the schematic creates a sub game as players search for the best combinations of materials. I also like the ability to fail. I mean it sucks, but when there is risk it is more entertaining. It would be really cool if you could assemble your own items out of a set of base sub conponents. Want a super cool pistol, just stick on more barrels and maybe an extra trigger for good luck 8)
i totally agree. it was also amazing how in SWG u could actually make a name for urself and millions and millions of creds from just crafting.... didnt even need a single combat skill... oh how i long for the early days of SWG....
I have tried tons of games out there and have yet to find a meaningful worthwhile crafting system, that I enjoy. I did not even enjoy Fallen Earth's crafting, which many people say is the best thing about the game. I have heard some stuff about SWG crafting pre-NGE that sounded pretty appealing to me. Especially variation on the location and type of materials. All in all I like the idea of crafting, but I've yet to find an implementation I enjoy.
if u like crafting u would of looved pre-nge swg...didnt even need to go into combat to be a well known and rich as heck crafter...
Comments
I did mention Vanguard just a handful of posts ago, but even it had it's shortcomings. It was nice that you could focus on crafting, combat or diplomacy, however in order to craft, you actually had to do combat or know someone who did. Could just level an alt and then transfer the mats to a non-combat crafter, which apparently was fairly popular.
Another game besides Eve and Vanguard that had a good system but was a very short-lived mmo was Earth and Beyond. Materials were fairly random to come by, aside from the mined stuff, and then crafting things you could make items up to a 200% quality (though that was exceedingly rare) - the big drawback in that game as far as items/crafting was that there was no way to repair stuff, so even if you did get that uber 200% quality item, you didnt want to use it, cuz it lost quality and, as it lost quality it lost stats. But it had a good base to the system. Too bad nobody's convinced EA to sell that engine, and make it into an mmo on a console. Game was simple enough to work on a PS3 or 360...heck probably the Wii even with it's outdated engine/graphics now =P
I prefer a crafting system where the crafter has use for items found in combat and raids, but does not need to be there themselves. If I want to be a crafter, don't force me to also be a raider if I want to make the best gear. Let the combat guys do that, and they sell it to me, or pay me to make something for them....you know like it works in real life.
Also, EVE has a good crafting system in that most everything in the game is from crafting. If all the crafters stopped in EVE the economy would fail and the game would follow. This reliance on crafting to supply the goods to the game makes you feel like crafting is on par with combat, and just as important if not more.
Earthrise is said to really almost exclusively on crafter goods, so that will be yet another game where crafters are extremely important. And, in Earthrise, raw materials and components do have grade values, so there won't be 100,000 of the same exact item, unless they all used exactly the same grade material for all their components. This allows crafters to seek higher value mats, and allows adventurers an income opportunity for finding this higher level materials.
As others have stated, the outlook of this article is determined by the two individuals you interviewed. The crafting systems they promote are neither what I and, I supsect, many other avid crafters want out of the system nor are they an exshaustive indication of what currently exists in the genre. That being said, I understand you are limited by who will respond to your requests for interview and nonetheless I find it an intriguing article and topic.
What we are getting from a lot of crafting systems at the moment is a simple, open to all system with homogeneous sub-par gear that often puts progress bars and random number generation above skill, experimentation and effort because it is easier to code and balance.
I imagine this is a satisfactory system for many gamers who receive no significant sense of achievement from crafting but to most crafters I imagine it feels like a patronising waste of time.
The foundations of the current crafting system are only well set in so far as individual developers accept them as the best or most adequate way of doing things. Personally I would like to think there are enough creative people left in the industry to follow alternative roots, as other games mentioned by posters in this thread have done and are doing.
Resource collection exactly like SWG, don't fix what isn't broken.
Mobs are a source of resouce not loot. Humanoid mobs can drop components or some reverse engineering of existing otherwise poor quality weapons just with specials.
Crafting is a non-combat profession, one or the either both are as vital to the game as the other. People complaining that having crafting proffessions in a game are the bitches who are the first to moan that they can't do everything with the same character. While not everyone wants to craft there aree those that love it and they will control the markets, if you don't like crafting you can contribute by selling your materials etc but you can't complain about being left out of a part of the game you have no interest in.
Degredation of items on use is a must.
Having a crafting mechanic similar to vanguard for the creation of an individual item or blueprint would be good and then factories, simialr to SWG for mass production.
As with any element in an mmo the game must be built around it. You can't make an mmo and then add a decent crafting system, it just doesn't work that way. The bonus with adding a decent crafting system with the mechanics to make it work is that you make a decent economy much more likely. People feel as though they are part of a society in a world.
Now to answer the OP, there have been good variations on crafting in some games, unfortunately they have also had some pretty drastic holes elsewhere in the gameplay. WoW doesn't have crafting at all and whether we like it or not we have to accept that a lot of players come from that background and simply don't see it as an integrual part of a good mmo. For that reason it's unlikely many of the AAA titles will 'waste' resouces on it when designing.
An awesome crafting system alone does not make a game, but it can make a game great.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I have tried tons of games out there and have yet to find a meaningful worthwhile crafting system, that I enjoy. I did not even enjoy Fallen Earth's crafting, which many people say is the best thing about the game. I have heard some stuff about SWG crafting pre-NGE that sounded pretty appealing to me. Especially variation on the location and type of materials. All in all I like the idea of crafting, but I've yet to find an implementation I enjoy.
Steam: Neph
The problem I see with most traditional crafting is that it is designed so that everyone can participate in it. Players are expected, and largley encouraged, to become crafters of some type or another, which effectively dilutes its overall importance.
First off, crafted items should account for the majority of all items found in a game, aside from the raw resources required to make them. This applies to anything adventurers actually use in the field like equipment and consumables, as well as to simple QOL items and fluff. Almost everything a player uses can trace its origin back to another player's hand.
Next, create a system where anyone can be a layman, but few will ever master, and those that have become masters have done so by forgoing their progression in most other aspects of the game. Basically, if you want to play a Knight(-ish) character, you can learn to hammer out dents in armor and fix broken straps, but you would need a specialist to add an inlaid design of your coat of arms to a shield, or set a gemstone into your sword's pommel. Only those that have spent their careers honing their crafting skills can do such things. And even though they can forge the sharpest of blades, they will never be able to wield them effectively. That should be the price of excellence.
Finally, make it so that no crafted item is inherently worthless. Allow existing items to continuously be improved upon, rather than discarded when something new with slightly higher stats drops. Hypothetically, the armor you start your career with can be the very same armor you end it with, although, through a series of upgrades and enchantments, it's far more powerful and aesthetically interesting. Then allow these pieces to be further infused so that they become heirlooms dedicated to either a bloodline (a player's alts), their house or guild, or or to a certain class or in-game following, which restricts its use to just that group. But to do any of this, you would require skilled artisans to actually perform the upgrades and cast the enchantments on your behalf.
By reducing the number of crafters in the world through streamlining their advancement into their chosen fields, it makes their value that much greater. Basically, crafting would take it's place alongside adventuring, rather than being a tacked on time sink that adventurers can also do if they're bored and feel like kicking it in town for a while while they chat. By making it and either/or decision to become a great crafter or great adventurer, you effectively limit the number of people willing to make the investment to go down that path. Many players would never choose to craft under any circumstance, and many others simply wouldn't be willing to give up the action of being under fire out in the field. But there will always be a few that would happily give up adventuring to earn the title of Master Craftsman.
Crafting in MMOs is a topic of great interest to me but the interview didn't really feel very enlightening. It seemed to be focused on tweaks and continuity for a game or two rather than anything fundementally new for the industry.
The Best Crafting I have ever played was in Pre Trammel UO...There the best thing you can buy is what is crafted by Blacksmiths and Tailors and made a real good Crafting System...I wish they would bring it back...I still remember goin to Blacksmith to buy that new Shadow Chain suit of Armor and it was very entertaining
Well said, the problem with some craftsmen, is they want their 'uber loot' too, without the killing of the big baddies. The problem arises when, lotsa raiders raid 5 hours 5-6 days a week with 50+ people, it takes about a year or sometimes 2 to get all the top end raid gear out of a new expansion, for everybody. Ok, so that takes up around 50,000 man hours a year, give or take. Now we get the crafters, that don't want to contribute to this, they want to make this gear, that's equivelent, and sell it for a profit, how long did it take them really, to max out their crafting skill so 'grand master xx' can make a full suit and sell it on the market. In EQ and WoW, if you really wanted to you can max your crafting 'skill' in a couple days if you have a bankroll. Of course some people with alotta time on their hands would do both, but seriously, I wouldn't see the point of raiding anymore, when not even a fraction of the manhours could be spent sewing uber peice of gear together. Crafters don't work to help other people, it's usually greed that drives the crafting community, but that's true about raiding too. If anything, I think crafters should have to stick to making low end hardware (stick to gearing up the noobies), armor repairs, food, poisons, etc. Maybe a grand master blacksmith knows how to temper armor to add a little more value to it, but outright making raid quality gear without having to spend the same amount of hours, or the fighting to do it, is out of the question.
They want mats to drop off the raid mobs, just so we can take our mats to a GM Blacksmith so we can also pay them to complete our armor for us (but who knows when that damn blacksmith will be on!!)..This sort of system would make me very angry. I would like to know when a crafter has died 20 times in a row when learning a new way to craft iron ore. Right now you can buy every mat, where's the risk? There isn't any!
Holice writes:
I prefer a crafting system where the crafter has use for items found in combat and raids, but does not need to be there themselves. If I want to be a crafter, don't force me to also be a raider if I want to make the best gear. Let the combat guys do that, and they sell it to me, or pay me to make something for them....you know like it works in real life.
--------------------------------
No, I would not be a fan of a system like ^. Not even the employees who build Bugatti's are able to own them. You have to be a status symbol. Not even rich people can 'own' them. If you want the best, you should work just as hard. I don't qualify clicking 'combine' as work at all.
Remember though that crafter who reach the pinnacle of their profession wouldn't be able to make use of that uber gear because they've spent their careers tinkering rather than adventuring. They can make gear for others but can't actually make use of it themselves. The exception to this would be fluff items or anything else that doesn't require any skill to use, such as consumables, toys, mini-pets, clothing, etc.
As for the path being quicker and easier for crafters, don't be limited by how things have been done in the past with other games. While it's true that in WoW, you could cap you profession in a day if you had enough coin, there's absolutely nothing to say that all systems must be structured in this way. In fact, if done properly, it should take roughly twice as long for a crafter to master his profession as it takes for an adventurer to begin wading into end-game content. I'm all in favore of making it a grindy, long and at times, boring process, if for no other reason than to discourage everyone from bothering to attempt it.
I just feel that as in RL, people gravitate to their niches. Not everyone can cook, not everyone can fix a car and not everyone can make their own clothing. For most of us, if we want fine food, a working automobile or not to have to wander around in our birthday suits (yeah, I know some people would prefer just that), we go to the people who do know how to do that.
I can easily see this working in a game. It's a just a matter of mechanics development resources.
/sign
Variable stats and material decay make things interesting. Crafting that allows flexibility to the schematic creates a sub game as players search for the best combinations of materials. I also like the ability to fail. I mean it sucks, but when there is risk it is more entertaining. It would be really cool if you could assemble your own items out of a set of base sub conponents. Want a super cool pistol, just stick on more barrels and maybe an extra trigger for good luck 8)
* I read most of what Jon Wood writes
* He needs more bullet points though
I understand from reading a couple of beta posts that Mortal Online has a unique crafting system, where you can put different materials in and it affects the final product, even to the point of showing it. Put a gold handle on a sword, you see a gold-handled sword, and it's heavier and has a different speed to the swing as a result.
Unfortunately, it seems to be a not-quite-done game, and a gank-fest as well, so I can't vouch for it.
There are lots of comments above that I agree on regarding making any crafting worth the time and keeping it's products in demand. More developers should consider those ideas above.
I want to point out a dynamic in EVE that's escaped comment here. EVE has bassically three "types" of pilots (though you can customize however you want). Harvesters (miners), crafters (industrialists), and DPS (combat) pilots. The Miners need the combat pilots to protect them when they harvest the good stuff. The industrialists need the miners to provide the materials to run their factories and produce their crafted goods. The combat pilot needs access to all the crafted goods, since the player items really drive the economy and provide 80% of what the combat pilots expends and needs to replace in a frequent basis (not to mention the parts for upgrading their ships).
It's a very simple system of mutual need that rewards all three in significant ways and keeps the harvesting/crafting/DPS products in high demand.
What if u wanted to make starship or magical sword or imperial scout blaster.... gonna run out side and whip up one those from that tree u cut down too? that be amazing... let alone if u could actually build furniture out of a tree in ur back yard....
i totally agree. it was also amazing how in SWG u could actually make a name for urself and millions and millions of creds from just crafting.... didnt even need a single combat skill... oh how i long for the early days of SWG....
if u like crafting u would of looved pre-nge swg...didnt even need to go into combat to be a well known and rich as heck crafter...