I personally don't think WoW was killed, more like your hot wife goes in for plastic surgery and comes out looking like frankenstein. Her boobs are the size of watermelons, but all the young kids think its great.
Seriously though, what I remember from the old days of Vanilla was a long time to reach level 60, and an even harder time to get into a solid raid group. I remembre spending weeks just trying to complete my dungeon tier sets.
Burning Crusade was released, and while some things changed, however I still enjoyed the game. It still required some sort of coordination and a decent guild to run the raids, which promoted keeping good relationships with players and playing as a part of a guild.
Lich King came out, and it started to go downhill from me. Originally the new content was fun and the zones were great. Upon reaching level 80 however, it just did not feel the same. I didn't really agree with bringing back Naxx as a primary raid dungeon since it had already been used, but I enjoyed it as much as I could anyway. ToC was interesting and different, and then came along ICC.
One of the things I enjoyed from the old days of the game, was the time it took me to get my gear. I would run dungeons or raids over and over again in hopes of getting that cool helmet to drop, and even if it didn't, something for my friends might drop and still add to the excitement. This all went away in lich king. I felt the speed in which you grinded out badges for gear was too fast; when combined with the dungeon finder it made it even worse. The dungeon finder has turned into a "Run this as fast as possible, dont communicate at all, and leave as soon as the last boss is defeated to re-que." That really makes this multiplayer game feel like I am playing with a bunch of bots.
Once you grind those out in a couple of days and have your full t9/9.5 set and are ready to head into ICC. This would be great fun, but the raid is so easy it is PUGd by everyone on the server. What used to be a fun event for a guild has been changed into "Why run it with a guild when I can run it with those random folks over there who can finish it just as easy?" For me personally, I don't care if the best tank on the server is in my group- and it doesn't excite me to be healing him. I don't think it is fun when Joe Shmoe wins 5 pieces of gear in 1 run, and then I never see him again. The game lacks the feeling of teamwork for me now. It doesn't feel like anyone actually sits back to have fun with a group of friends they have made, but just want to rush to get this done in the fastest way possible so they can sit in the general chats and spam for hours.
Spamming used to be "LF This, WTB That", or the ocassional person being an asshat. Now you can log in to find people literally hitting macros all day long in chat to the point where the chat system is pointless. I personally believe the game is going downhill fast from here, with the only people left being the 10 year old assholes who never played a video game until now, and then the adults who are trying to hold out for as long as they can in hopes of an old game being ressurected. Blizz killed a great thing in a way, but this is what makes them the money so its all that matters.
I'll be moving to FFXIV on September 22nd, and while the launch will not be perfect, and there will be bugs/broken features... I won't be looking back to WoW. The fresh start in a new world which promotes exploration and appreciation of scenary is just what I am looking for these day, and while the game doesn't reward group play too much in beta- they say they are going to change it. I've had more group fun in the FFXIV beta than I have had in WoW since Burning Crusade. Its sad to see a great game decline in the way WoW is, but all things must end- even the feelings certain games bring us.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I just hope that in 5 years we can look to WoW the same way we look to EQ today
You won't be able to. EQ was an innovative game that changed the face of online gaming forever. It focused heavily on the social aspect of gameplay, it's world was massive, immersive, detailed, and dangerous. Raids could be anything from 12-100 people. There was NOTHING like it in the 3D space before.
WoW was just a copy of EverQuest for people with ADD. It has half the features, and most of them are just the bad grindy features, none of the redeeming social ones.
Agreed!
EQ borrowed most of its "innovative" features from an earlier blizzard game called Diablo... just saying.
Not really, Everquest owes a lot to MUD's like DIKU that the makers played a lot.
So, provide source and proof that Diablo inspired EQ, or else it's just fanboi talk.
i've no doubt quite a few of the things in WoW were taken from earlier games, but rather than just copy them, which would have been a fail, they worked on them and improved them, SOE could well have taken the time and the initiative to have done the same thing with their own games, they didnt... and its that lack of evolution that is the reason why SOE after all this time, still doesnt have any AAA titles, Blizzard are good at what they do, and WoW has evolved over the years as a reflection of this, because players demand more and more over time too, which is why increasingly, players arent content with games that just copy other games, the players have matured at the same, if not faster than the games themselves.. i think the OP's problem really stems from the fact he's stuck in the past, sad... but, im sure eventually he'll realise why moving forward is far better than not moving at all.
they why don't you HC's get off the "casual's ruined gaming" bit and realize you are dinosaurs of a forgone era and just like dinosaurs accept your extinction or forced inhabitation of small islands way from most other life forms. Instead you cry and whine about Vanilla WoW saying that the game now is dying when the numbers shot up after they made the changes....and instead the HC games like EQ2 died and changed to become more casual. There is a hugh difference between the old 40 man AQ that I did and hated and the 25 man run now that are much easier to organize and do not take 6+ hours to complete. But you probably quit because it was not vanilla WoW before these came out. So climb back in your hole with the HC'ers and have a big group hug and try to feel better about the fact the world rejects your playstyle and no investor wants to put his money on a game for 5-10% of the gaming population.
Some of the new raids are decent in length and honestly 15 less people in a raid isn't much. I personally got bored. Sure the game changed but I hung with it until I foundsomething better. I don't think people that like raiding are old dinosaurs of a forgotten era wow still has a pretty hardcore raid game and so do many other mmos.
I kinda feel bad for you though if you had trouble getting forty people together for a raid when you game has 12 million subs. Shit I can get hundreds of people together in eve and my raids were much bigger in eq and ao. May wanna rethink that whole raid leader/ organizer thing you suck at it.
The notion that the developers have to cater to casual players who "don't have time" to play has been the ruin of more than one MMO...
So what if it takes a player who only plays couple hours on Friday nights 2 years to get to lvl 60?
Dumbing down the game is kind of like the military saying "hmmmm... let's just give ALL the soliders a Medal of Honor just for getting our of their bunks in the morning!!! That will motivate them!
Not really... it just dimishes the value...
People playing Wow today may as well being playing a FPS... Nothing they are doing amounts to anything... Any character development they achieve will be wiped out in the next x-pac... As an MMO, it's pointless... Maybe there's 11 million people who enjoy paying to play a glorified FPS??? Good for them.
But when it comes to character development and raiding, WOW is dead...
And that's sad, because there is a real market for serious players... Give me a game like WOW with 40 man raids that respects the time serious raiders invest in character development and I would gladly pay $30 a month to play and I bet there's about 500K others that would too...
Um if they just only added new content kept the level cap the same and added no new gear upgrades this game would have zero subs. Yup guess wows dead since it still has over 11.5 mil subs and new xpac that the vast majority are eagerly awaiting.
Who is saying they should have kept the cap at 60 and not introduced new stuff? No one. What was said is they should have made it necessary to finish lvl 60 stuff before you could advance to lvl 70 stuff. In other words, in order to get to Outland, you needed to beat Naxx. Tweak with the difficulty levels on the existing lvl 60 dungeons so it's easier to make it through if needed.
Instead they let anyone and everyone through at lvl 58, so all the hard work that the players (and devs) put into the lvl 60 dungeons was made pointless. Hard-earned gear was quickly made useless. They effectively killed off a lot of great content in one fell swoop.
The expansion could've been done so much better. I agree with the OP on that. I don't agree WoW is dead though.
Blizzard made their first mmo and with it tried to cater to the casual and the hardcore players. From the get go they threw the epeen flexing for getting to level cap out the door, the first in many blows to traditional staples for mmos. As soon as they found out that hardcore players make up 1% of the paying population, have the biggest mouths and the quickest tempers, devs started thinking of ways to cater more to the 99% of paying customers and flippin the bird to the whiney 1%.
Enter their first expansion. Cutting back the leveling process further (to allow catch ups) and throwing a swift boot to hardcores who thought their epeen gear earned from past content would make them returning kings. And thus delivering the second blow to the traditional epeen stroking practice that gear should show everlasting status. Blizzard offered level 61 gear that was superior to the 99% that never had a chance to get that top-end gear from the last raids. And it is a practice that would continue and HAS been part of past games from them (Diablo comes to mind).
Blizzard then released their second expansion. Which continued to streamline the leveling process for newer player, continued to refine the dungeon experience for the 99% by offering different ways to obtain nice gear without raiding and further offer means to put your toons through the paces with arena, battlegrounds and 2 levels of raiding. It is too much for hardcores to deal with when Blizzard shows them that their kind (nor blessing) is NOT needed to support an mmo.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I just hope that in 5 years we can look to WoW the same way we look to EQ today
There is no way WoW will be looked back in the same favorable light as EQ was. Well, at least for the gamers that remember what MMOs use to be.
END OF LINE_
~V
I hope I don't look back to WoW like I did EQ.......I HATED EQ. And as more WoW experienced gamers find sites like this and more EQ vets make like a tree, you'll find a more rounded gaming atmosphere than in restrictive, intolerable one we see atm.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I hope I don't look back to WoW like I did EQ.......I HATED EQ. And as more WoW experienced gamers find sites like this and more EQ vets make like a tree, you'll find a more rounded gaming atmosphere than in restrictive, intolerable one we see atm.
Oh ya, that's just what these forums need to improve the atmosphere.
Absolutely brilliant
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
QUESTION: Quote: Originally Posted by Xridnasa: - What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's? - ANSWER: Quote: Originally Posted by sidimazz: - Kind of, just without the rapist.
When i look at the subscription numbers nothing killed WoW yet...
People need to accept that after years of intensive play every game becomes boring because your inner soul wants something new...
This is so true, be glad that you got so much time out of a single game. When I quit not so long before BC (I did return when the expac came out but quit after I hit lvl cap) I was rather bitter and burnt out myself, thinking the game was shit. Now when I look back I've got nothing but fond memories, I've never spent as much time on a game as WoW but in the end you know when its time to move on.
I just hope that in 5 years we can look to WoW the same way we look to EQ today
You won't be able to. EQ was an innovative game that changed the face of online gaming forever. It focused heavily on the social aspect of gameplay, it's world was massive, immersive, detailed, and dangerous. Raids could be anything from 12-100 people. There was NOTHING like it in the 3D space before.
WoW was just a copy of EverQuest for people with ADD. It has half the features, and most of them are just the bad grindy features, none of the redeeming social ones.
Agreed!
EQ borrowed most of its "innovative" features from an earlier blizzard game called Diablo... just saying.
Not really, Everquest owes a lot to MUD's like DIKU that the makers played a lot.
So, provide source and proof that Diablo inspired EQ, or else it's just fanboi talk.
So, provide source and proof that EQ inspired WoW, or else it's just fanboi talk.... see what I did there
EQ borrowed most of its "innovative" features from an earlier blizzard game called Diablo... just saying.
Not really, Everquest owes a lot to MUD's like DIKU that the makers played a lot.
So, provide source and proof that Diablo inspired EQ, or else it's just fanboi talk.
So, provide source and proof that EQ inspired WoW, or else it's just fanboi talk.... see what I did there
Yes, you're making no sense, just as in your former post.
I wasn't the one that said that EQ inspired WoW (although it's not that hard to see and prove) in this thread, I just called you out talking bullshit regarding EQ. If you want to impress people and not sound like a blind fanboi, do it with truth not makeup fabrications. If you find the source to those unbelievable claims, I'm more than willing to give it its credit. Else it's just blind fanboi talk.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So, provide source and proof that EQ inspired WoW, or else it's just fanboi talk.... see what I did there
You do know that that the Wow devs played EQ? Kaplan was recruited when Strain quit because he played in the same guild as Morhaime. It isn't fanboi talk and I played Meridian and not EQ myself at the time.
There are just three things I would to see blizzard bring back from vanillia.
Epic means Epic
In vanillia getting epic gear was not easy, lots of runs, the feeling when you drop that boss you know has a 2% chance to drop your set peice and when he does its a good EPIC feeling, the badge system in game now is fine but I think a limit needs to be put on number of badges you can earn each day, a full set of epic gear will cost upwards of 250 badges which is close to 30-40 5man dungeon runs.. limit it to say 10 each day and give bosses the ability to drop set peices again in 5mans.
Flying
Flying is great and all but for me it shrinks it world, it vastly reduces world PVP, encourages greifing as a player can swoop down kill you and fly off.. before we had a chance to hunt down that player and get revenage, with flying he's long gone. I think it also stops blizzard making gated content, unlocking new areas etc.
AoE
Wrath mostly did away with the need to CC and it was all about AOE, vanillia UBR for example required lots of CC, a tank taking on more than 3 mobs was hard so CC had to be used, rogue SAP, hunter traps, pet offtanking, sheep, sleeps they all had a place. Today it's AOE aggro and AOE DPS.
You do know that that the Wow devs played EQ? Kaplan was recruited when Strain quit because he played in the same guild as Morhaime. It isn't fanboi talk and I played Meridian and not EQ myself at the time.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So, provide source and proof that EQ inspired WoW, or else it's just fanboi talk.... see what I did there
You do know that that the Wow devs played EQ? Kaplan was recruited when Strain quit because he played in the same guild as Morhaime. It isn't fanboi talk and I played Meridian and not EQ myself at the time.
The grandfather of all MMOs were however a game called Meridian 59, it invented the basics.
I hate to correct you, but Meridian 59 did not invent anything. Other then taking the already well established mud base and adding a static graphic overlay to it. That is all Meridian 59 did for the genre. Something that several custom mud clients already did at the time.
As far as the grandfather of all MMO's is / was a small mud simply named MUD at the time. It was started by a single Universty student as a small project to see if he could take Zork elements and add a multiplayer style interaction to it. Zork was greatly inspired by a small little game called Adventure or as most people called it at the time ADVENT.
So lets get the facts straight atleast. Meridian 59 is far from the grandfather of all MMOs. It may well be the first commercial static graphical MMO, but it is by no means the first MMO by any stretch of the scale.
I was a "hardcore" player... a MT in a large guild... I raided 4 nights a week, 4-5 hours a night... I was one of the 1st on my realm to get full T2 back when it actually meant something...
So 5 hours per day just for raid!lets talk with numbers say you sleep 4-5 hours a day this makes us 10 hours out of 24 and leave us 14 lets say you work 8 that leave us 6 lets say you devote 1 hour to go to work and back that leave us 5 hours also lets take 2 hours for difernet things(toilet-get dresed-talk to random person-random things that happen during the day)that leave us 3 hour for yourself as a human being assuming you were only farming the remaining 3 days of the week for your hardcore gaming!unless you were unemployed
When the x-pac was announced I knew it was the end of the game... Sure it would take it a while to die, but the glory days were over... and I was right...
some glory days that is!
#1. Serious MMO players devote lots of time to character development... grinding, leveling, and acquiring gear... Its a status symbol... It's like having a BMW or Mercedes in the real world... You see someone with leet raid gear and you know they've "paid their dues"... Lots of nights raiding 4-5 hours a night...
Were you on an RP server?because yes on non-RP servers somewhere between"omg look that newb who has greenies" and "more dots for the love of god stop being douchebags and play this f@#%$ng game"you were knight champin "insert rpish name"defender of azeroth my point being NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IN AN MMO asside RP servers(i assume there they actually do some RP)
also status symbol? more like "ohhh look here lads iam the uber raider with no life...ohhh look there lads here a life that just play games only 6 hours a day because his wife/job/girlfriend/work/kids/"what the majority have" require from him some time.
It would have been really easy to have required existing players to finish Naxx to get a "key" that allowed them access to x-pac areas where they could then "unlock" level 61 and starting leveling again.
They could have prevented level 60 players from grouping with level 61+ level players to prevent higher level players from "rushing" lower level players thru existing content.
If Blizzard has done this, then you would still have players running Molten Core, Oxynia, BWL, etc and serious players wouldn't have been raped of 2 years of character development.
lets just divide our player base to the higher level ups and the lower OHHH and lets do this better you wana play the game you just bought for 40 bucks go find 40 random other players and try to do what some people were doing with 40 people they knew while using 3rd programs(vent and addons)sure that will be the best for the game
#2. 40 man raids were epic. Changing 40 man instances to 20 man was incredibly stupid. For starters, it destroyed untold thousands of raid guilds... Bench 1/2 your 40 man raid guild you've been playing with for 2 years... Yeah, right...
because having of combat healers and people that their sole purpose was to push a buton was hardcore!
It was also bad because it destroyed the continuity of the game... Another slap in the face to serious players... If a player wants to get where I am in the game, I want them to have to do what I had to do to get there... Otherwise, there is no character development... No standard by which players are judged...
you wana play loose your job and divorce your gf that is
#3. Battlegrounds suck... Anyone remember Southshore? So what if it got a little laggy at times... It was real... and it was fun...
so when blizz said here are BGs were you can play.the players said ohhh taht sucks but lets ALL play and stop GANGING lowlevel people!
So there you have it... Now I'm sure some would say... But casual players would have never bought the x-pac if they had to finish 40 man Naxx to unlock level 61 and new areas... Yeah they would have... Sure, you might have to slightly "nerf" the difficulty but that had been going on all along. IF Blizzard had added some goodies that everyone wanted like better crafting, player housing (done right), player stores with NPC traders to sell your goods... (take crafted items off the AH), guild forts, ships, etc in the x-pac areas, then the game would have become even more popular instead of slowing dying like it is now.
yeap thats what wow is missing i dont know if you are stupid or you pretend to be
WOW could have been the start of something incredible... Instead, they tried to implement virtual Socialism... Let's make everyone equal... In the end, they just ruined the game...
damn this shit is funny!
I really cant understand how people think!you people make fun of asian gamers and their way of playing al the while you want the same thing!
wow is in the better state it has ever been!
thank god for us blizz prefered to listen to the people that actually make money for the company than losers like you!
So, provide source and proof that EQ inspired WoW, or else it's just fanboi talk.... see what I did there
You do know that that the Wow devs played EQ? Kaplan was recruited when Strain quit because he played in the same guild as Morhaime. It isn't fanboi talk and I played Meridian and not EQ myself at the time.
The grandfather of all MMOs were however a game called Meridian 59, it invented the basics.
If you are talking about graphical MUDS then both Neverwinter Nights and Shadows of Yserbius predated Meridian by several years. I wouldn't call Meridian the grandfather of any genre, maybe the uncle badtouch of mmorpgs?
Let's give credit where credit is due, when it comes to MMORPG then it has been Richard Garriot who first coined this term and it was for his Ultima Online. Before his using the term, people talked about 'graphical MUD's' to describe games in this this genre.
And, as is being said about these games:
'MMORPGs as defined today began with Meridian 59 in 1996, innovative both in its scope and in offering first-person 3D graphics'
'Ultima Online, released in September 1997, is now credited with popularizing the genre'
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
From day 1 of WOW comes, I never say WOW is MMORPG!!! It is more like a Online Games with subscription only.
Til now, I was right and I'm right !
But this is a good thing, when I think about my point, I actually will enjoy the game more since I won't expect MMORPG quality within WOW and I actually enjoy the online aspect in it.
I hope everyone can see the good side from everything.
If WoW is considered dead, there are about 100 other companies right now who want their game to be 'dead', just like WoW. How the F can you say WoW is dead with 11 million subs?
Comments
I personally don't think WoW was killed, more like your hot wife goes in for plastic surgery and comes out looking like frankenstein. Her boobs are the size of watermelons, but all the young kids think its great.
Seriously though, what I remember from the old days of Vanilla was a long time to reach level 60, and an even harder time to get into a solid raid group. I remembre spending weeks just trying to complete my dungeon tier sets.
Burning Crusade was released, and while some things changed, however I still enjoyed the game. It still required some sort of coordination and a decent guild to run the raids, which promoted keeping good relationships with players and playing as a part of a guild.
Lich King came out, and it started to go downhill from me. Originally the new content was fun and the zones were great. Upon reaching level 80 however, it just did not feel the same. I didn't really agree with bringing back Naxx as a primary raid dungeon since it had already been used, but I enjoyed it as much as I could anyway. ToC was interesting and different, and then came along ICC.
One of the things I enjoyed from the old days of the game, was the time it took me to get my gear. I would run dungeons or raids over and over again in hopes of getting that cool helmet to drop, and even if it didn't, something for my friends might drop and still add to the excitement. This all went away in lich king. I felt the speed in which you grinded out badges for gear was too fast; when combined with the dungeon finder it made it even worse. The dungeon finder has turned into a "Run this as fast as possible, dont communicate at all, and leave as soon as the last boss is defeated to re-que." That really makes this multiplayer game feel like I am playing with a bunch of bots.
Once you grind those out in a couple of days and have your full t9/9.5 set and are ready to head into ICC. This would be great fun, but the raid is so easy it is PUGd by everyone on the server. What used to be a fun event for a guild has been changed into "Why run it with a guild when I can run it with those random folks over there who can finish it just as easy?" For me personally, I don't care if the best tank on the server is in my group- and it doesn't excite me to be healing him. I don't think it is fun when Joe Shmoe wins 5 pieces of gear in 1 run, and then I never see him again. The game lacks the feeling of teamwork for me now. It doesn't feel like anyone actually sits back to have fun with a group of friends they have made, but just want to rush to get this done in the fastest way possible so they can sit in the general chats and spam for hours.
Spamming used to be "LF This, WTB That", or the ocassional person being an asshat. Now you can log in to find people literally hitting macros all day long in chat to the point where the chat system is pointless. I personally believe the game is going downhill fast from here, with the only people left being the 10 year old assholes who never played a video game until now, and then the adults who are trying to hold out for as long as they can in hopes of an old game being ressurected. Blizz killed a great thing in a way, but this is what makes them the money so its all that matters.
I'll be moving to FFXIV on September 22nd, and while the launch will not be perfect, and there will be bugs/broken features... I won't be looking back to WoW. The fresh start in a new world which promotes exploration and appreciation of scenary is just what I am looking for these day, and while the game doesn't reward group play too much in beta- they say they are going to change it. I've had more group fun in the FFXIV beta than I have had in WoW since Burning Crusade. Its sad to see a great game decline in the way WoW is, but all things must end- even the feelings certain games bring us.
Time killed wow...
Time will kill WOW.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
i've no doubt quite a few of the things in WoW were taken from earlier games, but rather than just copy them, which would have been a fail, they worked on them and improved them, SOE could well have taken the time and the initiative to have done the same thing with their own games, they didnt... and its that lack of evolution that is the reason why SOE after all this time, still doesnt have any AAA titles, Blizzard are good at what they do, and WoW has evolved over the years as a reflection of this, because players demand more and more over time too, which is why increasingly, players arent content with games that just copy other games, the players have matured at the same, if not faster than the games themselves.. i think the OP's problem really stems from the fact he's stuck in the past, sad... but, im sure eventually he'll realise why moving forward is far better than not moving at all.
Time will kill you too.
Some of the new raids are decent in length and honestly 15 less people in a raid isn't much. I personally got bored. Sure the game changed but I hung with it until I foundsomething better. I don't think people that like raiding are old dinosaurs of a forgotten era wow still has a pretty hardcore raid game and so do many other mmos.I kinda feel bad for you though if you had trouble getting forty people together for a raid when you game has 12 million subs. Shit I can get hundreds of people together in eve and my raids were much bigger in eq and ao. May wanna rethink that whole raid leader/ organizer thing you suck at it.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Blizzard made their first mmo and with it tried to cater to the casual and the hardcore players. From the get go they threw the epeen flexing for getting to level cap out the door, the first in many blows to traditional staples for mmos. As soon as they found out that hardcore players make up 1% of the paying population, have the biggest mouths and the quickest tempers, devs started thinking of ways to cater more to the 99% of paying customers and flippin the bird to the whiney 1%.
Enter their first expansion. Cutting back the leveling process further (to allow catch ups) and throwing a swift boot to hardcores who thought their epeen gear earned from past content would make them returning kings. And thus delivering the second blow to the traditional epeen stroking practice that gear should show everlasting status. Blizzard offered level 61 gear that was superior to the 99% that never had a chance to get that top-end gear from the last raids. And it is a practice that would continue and HAS been part of past games from them (Diablo comes to mind).
Blizzard then released their second expansion. Which continued to streamline the leveling process for newer player, continued to refine the dungeon experience for the 99% by offering different ways to obtain nice gear without raiding and further offer means to put your toons through the paces with arena, battlegrounds and 2 levels of raiding. It is too much for hardcores to deal with when Blizzard shows them that their kind (nor blessing) is NOT needed to support an mmo.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
There is no way WoW will be looked back in the same favorable light as EQ was. Well, at least for the gamers that remember what MMOs use to be.
END OF LINE_
~V
I hope I don't look back to WoW like I did EQ.......I HATED EQ. And as more WoW experienced gamers find sites like this and more EQ vets make like a tree, you'll find a more rounded gaming atmosphere than in restrictive, intolerable one we see atm.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Oh ya, that's just what these forums need to improve the atmosphere.
Absolutely brilliant
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
ermm ermmm..... the players ?
QUESTION:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
-
What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
-
ANSWER:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidimazz:
-
Kind of, just without the rapist.
I wish WoW had stayed the way it was when it was first released. Classes were unbalanced to a degree, but that is what made gameplay fun.
What killed WoW was the continual balancing and rebalancing of classes to everyone was the same.
This is so true, be glad that you got so much time out of a single game. When I quit not so long before BC (I did return when the expac came out but quit after I hit lvl cap) I was rather bitter and burnt out myself, thinking the game was shit. Now when I look back I've got nothing but fond memories, I've never spent as much time on a game as WoW but in the end you know when its time to move on.
O_o o_O
WoW is not killed. Worst WoW thread title ever. See you in Cata for sure.
So, provide source and proof that EQ inspired WoW, or else it's just fanboi talk.... see what I did there
Yes, you're making no sense, just as in your former post.
I wasn't the one that said that EQ inspired WoW (although it's not that hard to see and prove) in this thread, I just called you out talking bullshit regarding EQ. If you want to impress people and not sound like a blind fanboi, do it with truth not makeup fabrications. If you find the source to those unbelievable claims, I'm more than willing to give it its credit. Else it's just blind fanboi talk.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You do know that that the Wow devs played EQ? Kaplan was recruited when Strain quit because he played in the same guild as Morhaime. It isn't fanboi talk and I played Meridian and not EQ myself at the time.
EQ wasn't the only game however, this link tells you a bit of the story: http://www.massively.com/2008/11/14/the-anatomy-of-wow-seven-games-that-inspired-blizzard/
The grandfather of all MMOs were however a game called Meridian 59, it invented the basics.
There are just three things I would to see blizzard bring back from vanillia.
Epic means Epic
In vanillia getting epic gear was not easy, lots of runs, the feeling when you drop that boss you know has a 2% chance to drop your set peice and when he does its a good EPIC feeling, the badge system in game now is fine but I think a limit needs to be put on number of badges you can earn each day, a full set of epic gear will cost upwards of 250 badges which is close to 30-40 5man dungeon runs.. limit it to say 10 each day and give bosses the ability to drop set peices again in 5mans.
Flying
Flying is great and all but for me it shrinks it world, it vastly reduces world PVP, encourages greifing as a player can swoop down kill you and fly off.. before we had a chance to hunt down that player and get revenage, with flying he's long gone. I think it also stops blizzard making gated content, unlocking new areas etc.
AoE
Wrath mostly did away with the need to CC and it was all about AOE, vanillia UBR for example required lots of CC, a tank taking on more than 3 mobs was hard so CC had to be used, rogue SAP, hunter traps, pet offtanking, sheep, sleeps they all had a place. Today it's AOE aggro and AOE DPS.
I'll still be playing cata on release though.
Heh, cool link Loke, thanks.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I hate to correct you, but Meridian 59 did not invent anything. Other then taking the already well established mud base and adding a static graphic overlay to it. That is all Meridian 59 did for the genre. Something that several custom mud clients already did at the time.
As far as the grandfather of all MMO's is / was a small mud simply named MUD at the time. It was started by a single Universty student as a small project to see if he could take Zork elements and add a multiplayer style interaction to it. Zork was greatly inspired by a small little game called Adventure or as most people called it at the time ADVENT.
So lets get the facts straight atleast. Meridian 59 is far from the grandfather of all MMOs. It may well be the first commercial static graphical MMO, but it is by no means the first MMO by any stretch of the scale.
If you are talking about graphical MUDS then both Neverwinter Nights and Shadows of Yserbius predated Meridian by several years. I wouldn't call Meridian the grandfather of any genre, maybe the uncle badtouch of mmorpgs?
Let's give credit where credit is due, when it comes to MMORPG then it has been Richard Garriot who first coined this term and it was for his Ultima Online. Before his using the term, people talked about 'graphical MUD's' to describe games in this this genre.
And, as is being said about these games:
'MMORPGs as defined today began with Meridian 59 in 1996, innovative both in its scope and in offering first-person 3D graphics'
'Ultima Online, released in September 1997, is now credited with popularizing the genre'
/wikidig off
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
From day 1 of WOW comes, I never say WOW is MMORPG!!! It is more like a Online Games with subscription only.
Til now, I was right and I'm right !
But this is a good thing, when I think about my point, I actually will enjoy the game more since I won't expect MMORPG quality within WOW and I actually enjoy the online aspect in it.
I hope everyone can see the good side from everything.
If WoW is considered dead, there are about 100 other companies right now who want their game to be 'dead', just like WoW. How the F can you say WoW is dead with 11 million subs?