Beginning with all the people, who see a mission in open a website to guide you through a MMO, giving you hints how to suck the magic of an RPG and spit out numbers to give you the best route.
Of course the community will be... well... people will write "you have to join a good guild."
Of course all the good feel of playing together without grouping will be hijacked by guilds, where the weakest minds constantly let you know about their guilds achievements.
Of course you will have player- and guildnames where you just have to vomit.
Of course many people will try to sell you the shittiest finger nail, as long as it is golden.
and this list can be continued
Yeah - honestly the one thing that can potentially kill this game is it's own community (they can kill any mmo, but the devs help usually).
Then again, we don't get a sub fee, so people can't use the ridiculous "I'm paying my $15, I'm entitled to make the game how I want" attitude. I'd like to think that if everyone's having fun - the design is such that we can't screw eachother over in PvE - and no one can find major problems with the game, then they have little reason to be nasty to eachother.
Also, a few years after launch when everyone is max level and have done most of the events - or are in the expansion zones, etc - the world will be mostly empty and everyone will have to solo all the events. They'll still be fun, but not nearly as fun as with a lot of people necessarily. That could be a turn off to some.
Then again, I wonder if max level will be a grind for karma through events to buy raiding gear or what have you. If that's the case this problem may be offset significantly.
I guess we'll see.
Edit: 1 more thing crossed my mind. This may have already been addressed by the devs, but I don't recall seeing anything that implied we could freely wander the world at any level to find events. If we are restricted by level-appropriate zones, it may turn out that we end up systematically doing all the quests and events in each zone, just like we would if we were playing a normal themepark game. Maybe we'll do them in different orders and such and it'll be more dynamic and interesting anyway - but I could see that being a disappointment to some people. I don't know the balance of the leveling curve though, so it may be that you don't need to do everything in a zone to get enough xp. *shrug*
Stats will balance up or down depending on what level zone you're in. Go in a high-level zone, you get a stat boost. Go in a much lower-level zone, your stats scale down. It's pretty ambitious in itself. Here's hoping that there's at least enough restriction to keep every zone roughly equal in population.
I did hear the game designer say that stats would scale down if you entered a low level area as a high level character, but I don't believe he confirmed that they would scale up without grouping with high level friends in high level zones. Has that been confirmed elsewhere? I mean, it would make sense for it to work that way, but I don't want to make assumptions about it.
Karma shouldn't be a grind since you can supposedly buy the karma items with gold, however its obviously cheaper to use karma.
I was kind of hoping they would make it a grind, just so max level characters have a reason to still do dynamic events heh - or if not that then come up with some other reason for players to revisit other than to see the content.
Karma shouldn't be a grind since you can supposedly buy the karma items with gold, however its obviously cheaper to use karma.
I was kind of hoping they would make it a grind, just so max level characters have a reason to still do dynamic events heh - or if not that then come up with some other reason for players to revisit other than to see the content.
I think the grind is the "Want To Effect." Everytime I pass bandaits attacking a farm, even if i've saved it before, could I really let myself just let it burn? Probably not... I could see myself always helping out in events even if I've done them before.. not because I need to but because i WANT to... I think that's the huge different.... and pretty neat. So you can grind I in some aspect but only because you want to... and you probably will want to, at least to some degree.... and I think that's pretty neat.
Oh and the community I think will be a lot better this time around with the amount of working together they are promoting in this game. Way more than other MMOs... and how everyone gets the rewards ect there will be a lot less frustration, people being desperate and hitting "need' by "accident" ect...
Karma shouldn't be a grind since you can supposedly buy the karma items with gold, however its obviously cheaper to use karma.
I was kind of hoping they would make it a grind, just so max level characters have a reason to still do dynamic events heh - or if not that then come up with some other reason for players to revisit other than to see the content.
I think the grind is the "Want To Effect." Everytime I pass bandaits attacking a farm, even if i've saved it before, could I really let myself just let it burn? Probably not... I could see myself always helping out in events even if I've done them before.. not because I need to but because i WANT to... I think that's the huge different.... and pretty neat. So you can grind I in some aspect but only because you want to... and you probably will want to, at least to some degree.... and I think that's pretty neat.
Oh and the community I think will be a lot better this time around with the amount of working together they are promoting in this game. Way more than other MMOs... and how everyone gets the rewards ect there will be a lot less frustration, people being desperate and hitting "need' by "accident" ect...
It's a win win for Guild Wars 2.
the only real question is, will we ever get to see the negitive of the situations XD. i also can see them adding events post preduction. or even mixing ones up that are already there.
It will all be a mindless zerg fest. Fun for a while, but a big zerg fest. People ressing here and there, people nuking like hell...
I think the pvp might be pretty funny though, who can zerg vs zerg the most I wonder??
I don't think so. I'm basing this upon how team combat went - or could be - in GW, and upon comments of the devs, but GW2 will be 'easy to learn, difficult to master' especially when it comes to things like team or massive combat.
The most successful groups of people will be the ones who learn to effectively master the flexibility and range of possibilites of their profession, and who adopt to the right team combos in a situation. This will especially make the difference in competitive combat, as the team vs team combat and the World vs World PvP.
In the World vs World PvP a server community might decide to zerg, but with lots of keeps, strongholds, settlements, mines, farms and caravans to keep an eye on, it's the groups of people who can act smart and strategically and collaborate together better that'll win out, especially since it's 3 sides, not 2.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Karma shouldn't be a grind since you can supposedly buy the karma items with gold, however its obviously cheaper to use karma.
I was kind of hoping they would make it a grind, just so max level characters have a reason to still do dynamic events heh - or if not that then come up with some other reason for players to revisit other than to see the content.
I think the grind is the "Want To Effect." Everytime I pass bandaits attacking a farm, even if i've saved it before, could I really let myself just let it burn? Probably not... I could see myself always helping out in events even if I've done them before.. not because I need to but because i WANT to... I think that's the huge different.... and pretty neat. So you can grind I in some aspect but only because you want to... and you probably will want to, at least to some degree.... and I think that's pretty neat.
Oh and the community I think will be a lot better this time around with the amount of working together they are promoting in this game. Way more than other MMOs... and how everyone gets the rewards ect there will be a lot less frustration, people being desperate and hitting "need' by "accident" ect...
It's a win win for Guild Wars 2.
Well, sure - if you're already passing through. I'm saying an issue might be - what if you don't have a reason to be passing through in the first place? Let's say you're level 80 and all the content that still rewards you is in dungeon instances or some separate high-level zone. Are all those dynamic events back in the normal world gonna be there just for alts? There has to be a reason for people who choose not to make alts (this won't be me btw) to go back and see more dynamic events in the world, so they aren't just grinding endgame dungeon content or something.
I'm sure there will be solutions to these problems - I'm just pointing out possible issues that may arise based on what we know so far. Wanna play devil's advocate, ya know .
It will all be a mindless zerg fest. Fun for a while, but a big zerg fest. People ressing here and there, people nuking like hell...
I think the pvp might be pretty funny though, who can zerg vs zerg the most I wonder??
I don't think so. I'm basing this upon how team combat went - or could be - in GW, and upon comments of the devs, but GW2 will be 'easy to learn, difficult to master' especially when it comes to things like team or massive combat.
The most successful groups of people will be the ones who learn to effectively master the flexibility and range of possibilites of their profession, and who adopt to the right team combos in a situation. This will especially make the difference in competitive combat, as the team vs team combat and the World vs World PvP.
In the World vs World PvP a server community might decide to zerg, but with lots of keeps, strongholds, settlements, mines, farms and caravans to keep an eye on, it's the groups of people who can act smart and strategically and collaborate together better that'll win out, especially since it's 3 sides, not 2.
Good post, PVP always seemed like guild wars strongest feature, and why I was really looking forward to it. Now, there hasn't been any real good PvP info coming out of GC, but the hope is still out there somewhere.
There is no downside to guild wars 2. It has no monthly fee.
If you're old enough, I bet you're one of those guys who buys three tooth brushes instead of one, just because they are on sale, although you only need one.
There is no downside to guild wars 2. It has no monthly fee.
If you're old enough, I bet you're one of those guys who buys three tooth brushes instead of one, just because they are on sale, although you only need one.
There is no downside to guild wars 2. It has no monthly fee.
If you're old enough, I bet you're one of those guys who buys three tooth brushes instead of one, just because they are on sale, although you only need one.
There is no downside to guild wars 2. It has no monthly fee.
If you're old enough, I bet you're one of those guys who buys three tooth brushes instead of one, just because they are on sale, although you only need one.
Not sure what your point is.
Round'bout way of calling you a thrifty spender.
Really GW2 isn't going to change the genre. But if they fix GW1s problems, offer up some dynamic PvE content, give us a clue in on dynamic PvP; then they'd be on course to making a successful game.
It really doesn't matter if it serves up a shit ton of STFU to message board trolls or not.
They meet the subscriber base they're shoothing for or better and can stay a significant force for 4 years or so, that's all that matters in the end.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
There is no downside to guild wars 2. It has no monthly fee.
If you're old enough, I bet you're one of those guys who buys three tooth brushes instead of one, just because they are on sale, although you only need one.
So...?? Lol..it is not like they go bad, like bread...water...eggs...milk..etc. Heck I would buy 3 bottles of shampoo and conditoner if they were on sale if I needed one. It is the way things work, I mean look at how big DDO has gotten and how big LOTRO will get.
It will all be a mindless zerg fest. Fun for a while, but a big zerg fest. People ressing here and there, people nuking like hell...
I think the pvp might be pretty funny though, who can zerg vs zerg the most I wonder??
I don't think so. I'm basing this upon how team combat went - or could be - in GW, and upon comments of the devs, but GW2 will be 'easy to learn, difficult to master' especially when it comes to things like team or massive combat.
The most successful groups of people will be the ones who learn to effectively master the flexibility and range of possibilites of their profession, and who adopt to the right team combos in a situation. This will especially make the difference in competitive combat, as the team vs team combat and the World vs World PvP.
In the World vs World PvP a server community might decide to zerg, but with lots of keeps, strongholds, settlements, mines, farms and caravans to keep an eye on, it's the groups of people who can act smart and strategically and collaborate together better that'll win out, especially since it's 3 sides, not 2.
Speaking of PvP zergfests:
Alliance Battles with Minion Masters. Good times had by all.
But no, I don't foresee too much zerging, what with keeps, traps, and decent AoE. Arenanet has this funny way of making everything overpowered so that nothing is overpowered.
It will all be a mindless zerg fest. Fun for a while, but a big zerg fest. People ressing here and there, people nuking like hell...
I think the pvp might be pretty funny though, who can zerg vs zerg the most I wonder??
I don't think so. I'm basing this upon how team combat went - or could be - in GW, and upon comments of the devs, but GW2 will be 'easy to learn, difficult to master' especially when it comes to things like team or massive combat.
The most successful groups of people will be the ones who learn to effectively master the flexibility and range of possibilites of their profession, and who adopt to the right team combos in a situation. This will especially make the difference in competitive combat, as the team vs team combat and the World vs World PvP.
In the World vs World PvP a server community might decide to zerg, but with lots of keeps, strongholds, settlements, mines, farms and caravans to keep an eye on, it's the groups of people who can act smart and strategically and collaborate together better that'll win out, especially since it's 3 sides, not 2.
Speaking of PvP zergfests:
Alliance Battles with Minion Masters. Good times had by all.
But no, I don't foresee too much zerging, what with keeps, traps, and decent AoE. Arenanet has this funny way of making everything overpowered so that nothing is overpowered.
Those were good days, I had my */N with Vareta's Aura and an entirely different set of skills. I don't think its so much as all OP, but that every build type has a few skills that destroy it.
AoE does seem to be a big thing this time 'round though. Since it does appear that your attacks hit not only your target but you can get glancing blows on those nearby and the sheer amount of arrows and damage popped out by the longbows...
~- after that you've paid off all your debts. And other subsequent sales from that point on is 100% pure profit.
Really? They don't have to pay for servers, developers, or customer service?
Umm that's what profit is for, to support your game or expand or start a new project. What do you think profit is? Extra money to spend as you please? o.O?
Yes. Net income. The money you make after the overhead is met. Supporting a game or starting a new project is overhead. You don't think all the money these games make goes directly back into the game do you? O.0? All I was saying is that it didn't sound like eburn was considering the overhead.
I was considering the overhead.
The game is going to sell for 59.99 (standard, not CE edition) I can just about promise. That's a bit on the high end for a PC game. Still worth it if you think of the B2P model for a MMORPG.
I used the example of 20 dollars in actual PROFIT. Because honestly even at 60 bucks a pop to pay for game design, software production, printed materials, advertising, testing, and getting the servers up and running: I think 20 dollars is an optimistic profit made from the box.
Industry average for a stand alone game retailing at 49.99 is around 19.50.
The only difference is that, they don't profit that way. That's like living paycheck-to-paycheck. You have to get your mind set out of the box and consider other alternatives when it comes to finances.
Do you know that they can make a huge profit even if they didn't sell a single copy?
The downside imo is that some of the community are similar to wow's community relative to eq.
They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it.
A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on.
Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard".
Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
Originally posted by RobertDinh The downside imo is that some of the community are similar to wow's community relative to eq. They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it.A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on. Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard".Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
Anet already admitted it kind of. Because of the B2P model it is in their interest, that people fly through fun content, so they are "happy" enough to buy expansions. The flat leveling curve, easy grouping, and so on.
The downside imo is that some of the community are similar to wow's community relative to eq. They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it. A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on. Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard". Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
But you could also look at it from the company > customer perspective, not the customer > company perspective you take:
Most AAA MMO's are P2P with a level system that has an +ve exponential rise in difficult or what usually amounts to what people know as actions/content that equate to increasing "grind". The P2P monthly sub must not run out of content to retain a sense of progression in "new content" still to come and the grind is often "filler content" to that effect, that is repeat of other content but with higher settings to increase the sense of challenge, commitment needed , which are only different to the player in the amount of time and increase of repetition required or commitment to overcoming the problem to gaining the next level and new land and repeat and so on.
With a B2P game eg GW2, the developers interest is not to keep players playing for a large amount of time or have a carrot at the end of the game to motivate them through the "stick" parts of the game. What works, is a game with quality content that is fun, social, varied and minimum "filler content" at every stage. If this works, then a new expansion will likely make ppl think of the fun they had in the first game and want to purchase the next one. Hence this model does not rely on filler content. Yes, some sort of challenge may be lost in it (unless you count a rock solid e-sports game and some token end-game dungeons), but the customer and client relationship is stronger, I'd have to say.
So comparing both models, a market relatively full of P2P grinds or an mmo B2P with more fun/minute average but less overall gameplay time, still an MMO with all the features without what is often perceived as "time-wasting" content, it's a better investment of the customer (value for experience) (in general) and the company (to be seen, not enough egs of this yet) in this market to go for the B2P model.
For the type of player that wants the harder challenge in PvE MMO's that is a market niche that probably needs to filled.
Edit: I guess I should put my potential downside: Will this type of model of MMO lose the sense of community other P2P MMO's have built up, if the flat level curve does not provide a sense of commitment to, due to lack of personalized achievement? Will populations spike a lot around expansions? Personally I see PvP as potentially the most longevity of the game so if that is the case, I won't be a factor in that ; )
The downside imo is that some of the community are similar to wow's community relative to eq. They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it. A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on. Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard". Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
The grind on other games are not mainly from leveling up or progression. The grind is from raids where the guild is trying to gear up. Since the game is built around gear dependency, in WoW, you can't even get into a certain dungeon with crappy gear, the grind begins when you're trying to get that last BiS item - which you can only get with 25man raid which also consist of other players who wanted the same item. After a repeated grind for that one item, the first person who wins it by a roll or some other method will definitely lose interest in running the same raid over and over for their guildmate. It's a known fact that grinding for gear leaves you exhausted and the repetitiveness is getting boring after a while.
This grind in most MMO is designed to keep you playing. Lorewise, the boss should always drop their gears after dying - weapon, armor, shield, etc. - but most MMO you have less than 1% chance of seeing the gear you want, thus, the game indirectly forces you to run the raid instance again. So the business phylosophy is, the more you run the raid, the longer you have to stay locked into a $15/month subs, which is ridiculous.
Now don't get me wrong, many players could careless about the gears. Many are simply farmers who only need decent gear to fight off mobs when they're gathering materials or doing dailies - but that becomes repetitive after a while too. So in a typical MMO, you'll find grind everywhere just to keep you paying that $15/month.
In GW1, they removed the dependecy in gears, thus if you want to grind for asthetic reasons, you can, but you don't have to. Instead the game focuses more on gameplay, lore, exploration, etc. And since ArenaNet is carrying the same phylosophy over to GW2, you now understand the big difference what most people consider a grind.
And I don't think many players falls into your views of wanting things easy, rather I believe that many players want things to be reasonable. Take WoW for example, after running a 25man raid for 4hrs what do you show for it? Most of the time nothing. Then you have to repeat that over and over until either you get burned out, bored, or completed your gear set, where you lose interest and simply forced to do the runs for you guildmates' sake, thus you spend those hours and getting nothing. This is beyond reason outside greed.
The downside imo is that some of the community are similar to wow's community relative to eq. They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it. A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on. Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard". Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
How do you know this? Saying the content 'extremely easy' is an exaggeration. In other videos, they said it will not be very easy. They also mentioned that dungeons will be alot harder. They also realize that it is not fun at all when things are too easy ie. scaling the difficulty of monsters (not just bosses) up the more players participate, so that players don't feel that all of a sudden it becomes easy and fun is taken away because of that.
[Mod Edit]
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
The downside imo is that some of the community are similar to wow's community relative to eq. They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it. A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on. Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard". Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
How do you know this? Saying the content 'extremely easy' is an exaggeration. In other videos, they said it will not be very easy. They also mentioned that dungeons will be alot harder. They also realize that it is not fun at all when things are too easy ie. scaling the difficulty of monsters (not just bosses) up the more players participate, so that players don't feel that all of a sudden it becomes easy and fun is taken away because of that
It's a relative statement and a subjective idea of what content should be to the player in an mmo. It's basically a personal opinion or even game philosophy that people that like the difficulties of grind and camping and farming and high-level raid content etc etc are not being catered to in GW2. I'd have to agree, but disagree that is generally a bad thing, for most people.
Most people, I'd think, don't play a game to "beat the system", but play for a dose of fun. Challenge matched to skill can produce that fun, and hopefully GW2 will deliver this successfully in the right dose for most but not all people.
Comments
I did hear the game designer say that stats would scale down if you entered a low level area as a high level character, but I don't believe he confirmed that they would scale up without grouping with high level friends in high level zones. Has that been confirmed elsewhere? I mean, it would make sense for it to work that way, but I don't want to make assumptions about it.
I was kind of hoping they would make it a grind, just so max level characters have a reason to still do dynamic events heh - or if not that then come up with some other reason for players to revisit other than to see the content.
I think the grind is the "Want To Effect." Everytime I pass bandaits attacking a farm, even if i've saved it before, could I really let myself just let it burn? Probably not... I could see myself always helping out in events even if I've done them before.. not because I need to but because i WANT to... I think that's the huge different.... and pretty neat. So you can grind I in some aspect but only because you want to... and you probably will want to, at least to some degree.... and I think that's pretty neat.
Oh and the community I think will be a lot better this time around with the amount of working together they are promoting in this game. Way more than other MMOs... and how everyone gets the rewards ect there will be a lot less frustration, people being desperate and hitting "need' by "accident" ect...
It's a win win for Guild Wars 2.
It will all be a mindless zerg fest. Fun for a while, but a big zerg fest. People ressing here and there, people nuking like hell...
I think the pvp might be pretty funny though, who can zerg vs zerg the most I wonder??
the only real question is, will we ever get to see the negitive of the situations XD. i also can see them adding events post preduction. or even mixing ones up that are already there.
I don't think so. I'm basing this upon how team combat went - or could be - in GW, and upon comments of the devs, but GW2 will be 'easy to learn, difficult to master' especially when it comes to things like team or massive combat.
The most successful groups of people will be the ones who learn to effectively master the flexibility and range of possibilites of their profession, and who adopt to the right team combos in a situation. This will especially make the difference in competitive combat, as the team vs team combat and the World vs World PvP.
In the World vs World PvP a server community might decide to zerg, but with lots of keeps, strongholds, settlements, mines, farms and caravans to keep an eye on, it's the groups of people who can act smart and strategically and collaborate together better that'll win out, especially since it's 3 sides, not 2.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I wonder if I should bother to answer this....
nah
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
Well, sure - if you're already passing through. I'm saying an issue might be - what if you don't have a reason to be passing through in the first place? Let's say you're level 80 and all the content that still rewards you is in dungeon instances or some separate high-level zone. Are all those dynamic events back in the normal world gonna be there just for alts? There has to be a reason for people who choose not to make alts (this won't be me btw) to go back and see more dynamic events in the world, so they aren't just grinding endgame dungeon content or something.
I'm sure there will be solutions to these problems - I'm just pointing out possible issues that may arise based on what we know so far. Wanna play devil's advocate, ya know
.
Good post, PVP always seemed like guild wars strongest feature, and why I was really looking forward to it. Now, there hasn't been any real good PvP info coming out of GC, but the hope is still out there somewhere.
There is no downside to guild wars 2. It has no monthly fee.
If you're old enough, I bet you're one of those guys who buys three tooth brushes instead of one, just because they are on sale, although you only need one.
Not sure what your point is.
One can never get enough of those toothbrushes.
Round'bout way of calling you a thrifty spender.
Really GW2 isn't going to change the genre. But if they fix GW1s problems, offer up some dynamic PvE content, give us a clue in on dynamic PvP; then they'd be on course to making a successful game.
It really doesn't matter if it serves up a shit ton of STFU to message board trolls or not.
They meet the subscriber base they're shoothing for or better and can stay a significant force for 4 years or so, that's all that matters in the end.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
So...?? Lol..it is not like they go bad, like bread...water...eggs...milk..etc. Heck I would buy 3 bottles of shampoo and conditoner if they were on sale if I needed one. It is the way things work, I mean look at how big DDO has gotten and how big LOTRO will get.
Speaking of PvP zergfests:
Alliance Battles with Minion Masters. Good times had by all.
But no, I don't foresee too much zerging, what with keeps, traps, and decent AoE. Arenanet has this funny way of making everything overpowered so that nothing is overpowered.
Those were good days, I had my */N with Vareta's Aura and an entirely different set of skills. I don't think its so much as all OP, but that every build type has a few skills that destroy it.
AoE does seem to be a big thing this time 'round though. Since it does appear that your attacks hit not only your target but you can get glancing blows on those nearby and the sheer amount of arrows and damage popped out by the longbows...
Disagreement Heirarchy
The only difference is that, they don't profit that way. That's like living paycheck-to-paycheck. You have to get your mind set out of the box and consider other alternatives when it comes to finances.
Do you know that they can make a huge profit even if they didn't sell a single copy?
Figure that one out.
Ready for GW2!!!
They want things extremely easy and they want to progress consistently with minimal effort. Obviously they won't admit to this because most people don't want to consider themselves that kind of gamer, but that's the reality of it.
A lot of people complain about grinds and such from games like wow, but the grind in wow is minimal compared to the 1st generation mmorpgs, they are just accustomed to wanting things even easier and easier as more and more time goes on.
Being that gw2 is in fact gw2 there will be a lot of gw1 players playing it, and gw1 was basically about as hard as diablo, so they have a very low standard for what they consider challenging content as opposed to content that is "too hard".
Anet seems to be catering to this crowd, much like blizzard caters to their casual crowd.
only downside I see so far is that the game is not released
But you could also look at it from the company > customer perspective, not the customer > company perspective you take:
Most AAA MMO's are P2P with a level system that has an +ve exponential rise in difficult or what usually amounts to what people know as actions/content that equate to increasing "grind". The P2P monthly sub must not run out of content to retain a sense of progression in "new content" still to come and the grind is often "filler content" to that effect, that is repeat of other content but with higher settings to increase the sense of challenge, commitment needed , which are only different to the player in the amount of time and increase of repetition required or commitment to overcoming the problem to gaining the next level and new land and repeat and so on.
With a B2P game eg GW2, the developers interest is not to keep players playing for a large amount of time or have a carrot at the end of the game to motivate them through the "stick" parts of the game. What works, is a game with quality content that is fun, social, varied and minimum "filler content" at every stage. If this works, then a new expansion will likely make ppl think of the fun they had in the first game and want to purchase the next one. Hence this model does not rely on filler content. Yes, some sort of challenge may be lost in it (unless you count a rock solid e-sports game and some token end-game dungeons), but the customer and client relationship is stronger, I'd have to say.
So comparing both models, a market relatively full of P2P grinds or an mmo B2P with more fun/minute average but less overall gameplay time, still an MMO with all the features without what is often perceived as "time-wasting" content, it's a better investment of the customer (value for experience) (in general) and the company (to be seen, not enough egs of this yet) in this market to go for the B2P model.
For the type of player that wants the harder challenge in PvE MMO's that is a market niche that probably needs to filled.
Edit: I guess I should put my potential downside: Will this type of model of MMO lose the sense of community other P2P MMO's have built up, if the flat level curve does not provide a sense of commitment to, due to lack of personalized achievement? Will populations spike a lot around expansions? Personally I see PvP as potentially the most longevity of the game so if that is the case, I won't be a factor in that ; )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
The grind on other games are not mainly from leveling up or progression. The grind is from raids where the guild is trying to gear up. Since the game is built around gear dependency, in WoW, you can't even get into a certain dungeon with crappy gear, the grind begins when you're trying to get that last BiS item - which you can only get with 25man raid which also consist of other players who wanted the same item. After a repeated grind for that one item, the first person who wins it by a roll or some other method will definitely lose interest in running the same raid over and over for their guildmate. It's a known fact that grinding for gear leaves you exhausted and the repetitiveness is getting boring after a while.
This grind in most MMO is designed to keep you playing. Lorewise, the boss should always drop their gears after dying - weapon, armor, shield, etc. - but most MMO you have less than 1% chance of seeing the gear you want, thus, the game indirectly forces you to run the raid instance again. So the business phylosophy is, the more you run the raid, the longer you have to stay locked into a $15/month subs, which is ridiculous.
Now don't get me wrong, many players could careless about the gears. Many are simply farmers who only need decent gear to fight off mobs when they're gathering materials or doing dailies - but that becomes repetitive after a while too. So in a typical MMO, you'll find grind everywhere just to keep you paying that $15/month.
In GW1, they removed the dependecy in gears, thus if you want to grind for asthetic reasons, you can, but you don't have to. Instead the game focuses more on gameplay, lore, exploration, etc. And since ArenaNet is carrying the same phylosophy over to GW2, you now understand the big difference what most people consider a grind.
And I don't think many players falls into your views of wanting things easy, rather I believe that many players want things to be reasonable. Take WoW for example, after running a 25man raid for 4hrs what do you show for it? Most of the time nothing. Then you have to repeat that over and over until either you get burned out, bored, or completed your gear set, where you lose interest and simply forced to do the runs for you guildmates' sake, thus you spend those hours and getting nothing. This is beyond reason outside greed.
Ready for GW2!!!
How do you know this? Saying the content 'extremely easy' is an exaggeration. In other videos, they said it will not be very easy. They also mentioned that dungeons will be alot harder. They also realize that it is not fun at all when things are too easy ie. scaling the difficulty of monsters (not just bosses) up the more players participate, so that players don't feel that all of a sudden it becomes easy and fun is taken away because of that.
[Mod Edit]
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
It's a relative statement and a subjective idea of what content should be to the player in an mmo. It's basically a personal opinion or even game philosophy that people that like the difficulties of grind and camping and farming and high-level raid content etc etc are not being catered to in GW2. I'd have to agree, but disagree that is generally a bad thing, for most people.
Most people, I'd think, don't play a game to "beat the system", but play for a dose of fun. Challenge matched to skill can produce that fun, and hopefully GW2 will deliver this successfully in the right dose for most but not all people.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem