Hopefully they have some kind of twist to the 2-factions scenario (temporary shifting alliances maybe, or just 2 races = 2 factions, and adding playable factions/races later on?).
However, if they have a bunch of races smashed together into two factions, then I suppose this game wont be for me. I'll keep an eye on it to see what they might come up with though. After all, its kinda early to say much about it right now.
To all those who are complaining about THQ ''recycling'' stuff from Dawn of War, you're fucking retarded.
It is Warhammer 40k, it is a tabletop miniatures game. They took the units and made a few games out of it (Dawn of War, and now Dark Millenium) and made it resemble the tabletop game. They didn't recycle shit, its just how the units look like.
2 factions isn't nearly as huge a problem as some make it out to be.
With proper background tyranids and imperial guard could ally ( by way of genestealers in the IG high command of the local planet the battle is taking place )
Alliance doesn't mean that the 2 races go out to drink beer together after every battle while exploring the possibilities of interracial romantic relationships.
It just means that there's a temporary cease fire and agreement to shoot the other alliance instead of each other. If a space marine, tau and tyranid meet I fully expect both the space marine and tau to first blow the tyranid to bits and only then turn upon each other. The alliances in the game should be much the same.
Yea I was thinking the same thing. They are people saying that there has been temporary alliances in the past but says it goes against lore for them to have an alliance here. Those statement alone contridict themselves. I just simply means the time frame of the game takes place during one of these alliances for however long the storyline of the MMO is suppsoed to take place. No were does it say the alliance is permenant or that its always has been that way so its not going aganist any lore.. at least not yet anyway. It just means whatever events that cause the storyline of the game caused this alliance
Its the story line of a mmo how long does that usually take place in story? a few months? maybe a few years? definally only one Event/ War/ short term time period
They could very easly establish the game for a few years feel the flow let the stories play out( main and expansions ). Then they can have some "Catalismic" event that seperates them later.
I challenged my reflection to a staring contest....4 days later i won
Im a bit dissapointed.This is a mmoRPG meaning you gotta stick to the lore at least 90% of the time not trying to take the easy way out and force the 2 faction rule.
It's been stated over and over again that the 3 faction thing that DaoC had is very popular amongst the mmorpg crowd so why not learn from this. Its not like they dont have the time to do this right.
Yes alliances between the races have been seen before but I suspect the 2 faction thing is gonna spill over into the PvE part of the game too and that will be a difficult thing to force through lore wise.
For Vigil to turn to the 2 faction model shows me they dont learn from previos pvp successes and they are deffinetly not listening to the fans because they care about lore and a 3 faction or more based pvp just brings much more to a game.
W40k isn't about 2 factions, its about multiple factions fighting against each other with no truce in sight. Also I don't care for recycled stuff as long as it plays good
No, 40k is about war, no wehre in that does it say that this means more than 2 sides, it war, very rarely if ever do you see a war that has more than 2 sides, especially in 40k where they ally up into 2 sides on multiple occasions.
PS: 3 way 40k games suck, theres a reason you only see 1vs1, or 2vs2, its because warhammer is about 2 sides.
Originally posted by jvxmtg
Hopefully Mytic don't get an imput about this game...WAR Online is just horrible.
Why would a company owned by another company that has nothing to do with 40k have input on this game?
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk
2 factions + this guy seems obsessed about console gameplay and cool vehicles, pretty much ignoring the mmo design elements.
This game just dropped off my radar, permanently.
Sorry bub, 40k is vehicle focused, get over it, 40k without vehicles is like a fantasy game without any fantasy.
2 factions + this guy seems obsessed about console gameplay and cool vehicles, pretty much ignoring the mmo design elements.
This game just dropped off my radar, permanently.
Sorry bub, 40k is vehicle focused, get over it, 40k without vehicles is like a fantasy game without any fantasy.
The (pretty obvious) point I tried to make is that he is obsessed with trivialities (yes, trivialites) while snubbing the core elements that make any mmo succeed or fail, before anything else, including lore, story etc etc is taken into consideration. It's like a car company (say Ford) trying to sell you a new model, all gushing about awesome color schemes and cool seat covers while carefully avoiding any talk about the engine or steering. And the lead designer casually (and a bit smugly I must say) mentions how he used to work at GM and he doesn't really like the whole car business and would rather make furniture (just look at those Ikea guys, gosh!) because they really do great colour schemes and ergonomic design there.
why dont you whiners wait for some sort of beta before you start saying the game is crap/dead/fail/clone/your-mom...
everyone knows there will be a good/bad side. there always is IN EVERY mmo on the planet. there will be a good honourable side and the evil corrupt side. its fact. if that is a game breaker to you... stick to wow.. with its 2 sided faction of crap.
i play the table top of warhammer40k so im well used to seeing chaos with gaurd with nids with necrons... does it ruin the game if its a 6 vs 6 match with loyal marines teamed with 3 units of chaos and 2 gaurd?? hell no, it just makes it interesting.
so lets at least wait for the game to go live before shuffling it off like everyone shuffled AoE and War.
so far all i know that are playable are imperials, orks and chaos. what armies remains to be truly seen. maybe they will have marine/gaurd/sisters or every army possible. who knows. warhammer has a lot of playable races and sides.
i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies.
Tim Campbell: We're going to have two overall factions in the game, and all of the playable races are going to fit into one or the other.
There are compelling reasons why that works in this situation and our game, and Games Workshops are completely on board with it so we're not doing anything that violates the IP or the fiction – the details though will be revealed in the near future.
Curious to see how exactly they are going to make this fit up with lore.
1. The factions are creating a temporary alliance per say cause they share their point of view on what should happen to the thing they're fighing for.
A temporary but permenant allience. I call BS defending it more BS. When will these knuck head try to actually make a good mmorpg. WEll anyhting other than a wow clone. (PS im an anti wow clone person but really, its obvious the dev s ARE NOT TRYING). The best they got is what GW and terra will already deliver 3 years before war40k hits the streets. Lame, heres and idea work out good core concepts first, then make the game. Ok well they did this action oriented and good animations. Cheer. While i can't say how this game will be i can tell you its pvp will only be ok, not even good. Why because two sided pvp always creates a landslide population wise, if there is open pvp; and if not well no open pvp = ok-bad pvp tops.
2.You might not notice but time doesn't move foward in mmos,think about it.
3. They might just be trying to make the game fun,god forbid them for making something fun cause the lore-whores think it's wrong for a space marine to look at an eldar without pointing a weapon at him,you know what,no one bloody cares,you don't see people complaining cause people were having a FUN tabletop game with space marines+tau against dark eldar and sisters of battle.
Id take fun and good over just fun.
And no,warhammer age of reckoning didn't fail because it only had 2 factions.
Your right here it was the focus on makign the game cool and not good. One such indicator of this was limiting the game to two factions. Becuase it was easy and they were goign for FUN. See your better off going for good, becuase good games are fun, but fun games are not always good.
People don't pay box price plus $15 a month for "fun" and if they do they don't do it for long.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
why dont you whiners wait for some sort of beta before you start saying the game is crap/dead/fail/clone/your-mom...
How about we seen this one played out a few times. And as a part of the pvp loving mmo community we are sick of bad game design. Even more so when they KNOW BETTER, AND ARE SIMPLY BEING LAZY.
everyone knows there will be a good/bad side. there always is IN EVERY mmo on the planet. there will be a good honourable side and the evil corrupt side. its fact. if that is a game breaker to you... stick to wow.. with its 2 sided faction of crap.
What was the good/bad in daoc, eq, uo? So maybe everyone who just started playing mmos and has not played a mmo with any good pvp would say this but i doubt. And wow is one of them that has two factions one good the other bad, tho now less bad. REguardless, its liek you made a poitn and then tore it down in the same pharagraph. Unless your point was somethign else not clear.
i play the table top of warhammer40k so im well used to seeing chaos with gaurd with nids with necrons... does it ruin the game if its a 6 vs 6 match with loyal marines teamed with 3 units of chaos and 2 gaurd?? hell no, it just makes it interesting.
so lets at least wait for the game to go live before shuffling it off like everyone shuffled AoE and War.
so far all i know that are playable are imperials, orks and chaos. what armies remains to be truly seen. maybe they will have marine/gaurd/sisters or every army possible. who knows. warhammer has a lot of playable races and sides.
ATm i don't care if it was only 3 playable races as logn as they are on 3 different sides/factions. I don't give a if they had 20 playable races and only 2 factions, a game with 3 playable and 3 factiosn is goign to be superior in everyway. (other than looks of that character your playing)
i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies.
We know your not well versed in pvp. Listen if your goal is pve theres as you say, stick to wow. If your goal is 5v5 duels as you say, stick to wow. If your goal is open world pvp, you want more factions, it makes better pvp games. And the multi faction games out there prove this. You know wow is a mmorpg with solid systems, two factions, each with 4-6 races/armies, and open world pvp. But its not a attractive point for wow becuase servers are rarely balanced partly do to this fact alone. In open world pvp if they have 75% and you 25% of the pop. your gonna lose.
Still the game systems and core have to be solid and war 40k could be a good game w/o 3 factions, but it be a better game with them.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
why dont you whiners wait for some sort of beta before you start saying the game is crap/dead/fail/clone/your-mom...
everyone knows there will be a good/bad side. there always is IN EVERY mmo on the planet. there will be a good honourable side and the evil corrupt side. its fact. if that is a game breaker to you... stick to wow.. with its 2 sided faction of crap.
i play the table top of warhammer40k so im well used to seeing chaos with gaurd with nids with necrons... does it ruin the game if its a 6 vs 6 match with loyal marines teamed with 3 units of chaos and 2 gaurd?? hell no, it just makes it interesting.
so lets at least wait for the game to go live before shuffling it off like everyone shuffled AoE and War.
so far all i know that are playable are imperials, orks and chaos. what armies remains to be truly seen. maybe they will have marine/gaurd/sisters or every army possible. who knows. warhammer has a lot of playable races and sides.
i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies.
Well, stating you opinion, what you call whining, about a game is important since it might make the devs open their eyes to what the fans want, yes?
In the 40k universe theres are no good side. Every race are, if you study the lore, evil bastards in their own way. Some are just more obvious that others.
The problem here is it's a mmoRPG not the table top game. The RPG part means you gotta stay on track lore wise and yes you see alliances, although rarely, they ARE there but not enough to make an ORDER and DESTRUCTION side.
This will spill over into the PvE element of the game and Im having a hard time seeing different races socialising, beeing in the same "guild" together and so on.
Imperium of man, eldar and tau could work together but vs orcs, chaos and maybe dark eldar but this is strictly from a pvp point of view. When the races meet they will fight. The is the core of 40k. They all have their own agendas be it The Greater Good, Compliance and hate for the unknown or just simply destruction and I just cant see how they will make it fit into the PvE element.
so lets at least wait for the game to go live before shuffling it off like everyone shuffled AoE and War.
so far all i know that are playable are imperials, orks and chaos. what armies remains to be truly seen. maybe they will have marine/gaurd/sisters or every army possible. who knows. warhammer has a lot of playable races and sides.
i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies.
Well, stating you opinion, what you call whining, about a game is important since it might make the devs open their eyes to what the fans want, yes?
In the 40k universe theres are no good side. Every race are, if you study the lore, evil bastards in their own way. Some are just more obvious that others.
....
Agree with cirkelspark here.
Devs surrounded by a bunch of 'yes men' (known as Fanbois in the online world) don't get the feedback they need.
This far out from release - there is still time for a rethink and redesign. Two years from now, as development cash dries up and publisher pressure comes to bare - if the devs realise they have made a mistake it might just be a case of 'Too late now.'
Ichmen, so say "i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies."?
Really, that's easy to say now - but how would you feel after 2 months? 6 months? a year? Particularly when the Devs say... "It's hard coded in game - we cannot change it, ever."?
I would suggest you look at the feedback on this - how many posters are for this? How many against? Yeah, forum posters are only a small sample - but are they a representative sample? Because if so, do you think this is a good decision by Vigil?
WAR's problem is not in the concept (beside the 2 factions instead of 3) it's in the execution... the bugs and the half dead dev team from all the EA cutbacks.
This game needs more than 2 factions and it needs to be all about PvP.
Also... PvP based game are elitist games... you will never see a PvP game dethrone WoW or even come close, even the best one you could imagine.
WAR, AoC, GW, GW2, Mortal Online, Darkfall, APB... None of these have/had a chance to bring WoW challenging numbers. (Except WAR who pretended to cather to all markets but was really all about PVP)
Comments
Hopefully they have some kind of twist to the 2-factions scenario (temporary shifting alliances maybe, or just 2 races = 2 factions, and adding playable factions/races later on?).
However, if they have a bunch of races smashed together into two factions, then I suppose this game wont be for me. I'll keep an eye on it to see what they might come up with though. After all, its kinda early to say much about it right now.
To all those who are complaining about THQ ''recycling'' stuff from Dawn of War, you're fucking retarded.
It is Warhammer 40k, it is a tabletop miniatures game. They took the units and made a few games out of it (Dawn of War, and now Dark Millenium) and made it resemble the tabletop game. They didn't recycle shit, its just how the units look like.
Yea I was thinking the same thing. They are people saying that there has been temporary alliances in the past but says it goes against lore for them to have an alliance here. Those statement alone contridict themselves. I just simply means the time frame of the game takes place during one of these alliances for however long the storyline of the MMO is suppsoed to take place. No were does it say the alliance is permenant or that its always has been that way so its not going aganist any lore.. at least not yet anyway. It just means whatever events that cause the storyline of the game caused this alliance
Its the story line of a mmo how long does that usually take place in story? a few months? maybe a few years? definally only one Event/ War/ short term time period
They could very easly establish the game for a few years feel the flow let the stories play out( main and expansions ). Then they can have some "Catalismic" event that seperates them later.
I challenged my reflection to a staring contest....4 days later i won
Yeah, two factions in WH40K (and I am no big rabid fanboi BTW) is stupid and unnecessary.
This game could easily be 'balanced' to prevent the smaller races (player population wise I mean) getting ganked and zerged.
The fact that they are doing it 'the easy way' just tells me that the dev team lacks talent - and that is a big concern.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Thanks for confirming my doubts about the factions being order vs chaos. Now I can stop reading articles about this title - been there done that.
Come on GW2! You can do it!
Im a bit dissapointed.This is a mmoRPG meaning you gotta stick to the lore at least 90% of the time not trying to take the easy way out and force the 2 faction rule.
It's been stated over and over again that the 3 faction thing that DaoC had is very popular amongst the mmorpg crowd so why not learn from this. Its not like they dont have the time to do this right.
Yes alliances between the races have been seen before but I suspect the 2 faction thing is gonna spill over into the PvE part of the game too and that will be a difficult thing to force through lore wise.
For Vigil to turn to the 2 faction model shows me they dont learn from previos pvp successes and they are deffinetly not listening to the fans because they care about lore and a 3 faction or more based pvp just brings much more to a game.
2 factions + this guy seems obsessed about console gameplay and cool vehicles, pretty much ignoring the mmo design elements.
This game just dropped off my radar, permanently.
No, 40k is about war, no wehre in that does it say that this means more than 2 sides, it war, very rarely if ever do you see a war that has more than 2 sides, especially in 40k where they ally up into 2 sides on multiple occasions.
PS: 3 way 40k games suck, theres a reason you only see 1vs1, or 2vs2, its because warhammer is about 2 sides.
Why would a company owned by another company that has nothing to do with 40k have input on this game?
Sorry bub, 40k is vehicle focused, get over it, 40k without vehicles is like a fantasy game without any fantasy.
The (pretty obvious) point I tried to make is that he is obsessed with trivialities (yes, trivialites) while snubbing the core elements that make any mmo succeed or fail, before anything else, including lore, story etc etc is taken into consideration. It's like a car company (say Ford) trying to sell you a new model, all gushing about awesome color schemes and cool seat covers while carefully avoiding any talk about the engine or steering. And the lead designer casually (and a bit smugly I must say) mentions how he used to work at GM and he doesn't really like the whole car business and would rather make furniture (just look at those Ikea guys, gosh!) because they really do great colour schemes and ergonomic design there.
See the problem?
why dont you whiners wait for some sort of beta before you start saying the game is crap/dead/fail/clone/your-mom...
everyone knows there will be a good/bad side. there always is IN EVERY mmo on the planet. there will be a good honourable side and the evil corrupt side. its fact. if that is a game breaker to you... stick to wow.. with its 2 sided faction of crap.
i play the table top of warhammer40k so im well used to seeing chaos with gaurd with nids with necrons... does it ruin the game if its a 6 vs 6 match with loyal marines teamed with 3 units of chaos and 2 gaurd?? hell no, it just makes it interesting.
so lets at least wait for the game to go live before shuffling it off like everyone shuffled AoE and War.
so far all i know that are playable are imperials, orks and chaos. what armies remains to be truly seen. maybe they will have marine/gaurd/sisters or every army possible. who knows. warhammer has a lot of playable races and sides.
i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies.
Very exciting news, my son and I and both looking forward to locking horns on this one when it comes out.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Well, stating you opinion, what you call whining, about a game is important since it might make the devs open their eyes to what the fans want, yes?
In the 40k universe theres are no good side. Every race are, if you study the lore, evil bastards in their own way. Some are just more obvious that others.
The problem here is it's a mmoRPG not the table top game. The RPG part means you gotta stay on track lore wise and yes you see alliances, although rarely, they ARE there but not enough to make an ORDER and DESTRUCTION side.
This will spill over into the PvE element of the game and Im having a hard time seeing different races socialising, beeing in the same "guild" together and so on.
Imperium of man, eldar and tau could work together but vs orcs, chaos and maybe dark eldar but this is strictly from a pvp point of view. When the races meet they will fight. The is the core of 40k. They all have their own agendas be it The Greater Good, Compliance and hate for the unknown or just simply destruction and I just cant see how they will make it fit into the PvE element.
Agree with cirkelspark here.
Devs surrounded by a bunch of 'yes men' (known as Fanbois in the online world) don't get the feedback they need.
This far out from release - there is still time for a rethink and redesign. Two years from now, as development cash dries up and publisher pressure comes to bare - if the devs realise they have made a mistake it might just be a case of 'Too late now.'
Ichmen, so say "i personally dont give 2 cowpies if its only 2 factions, if each faction is up to 4+ armies."?
Really, that's easy to say now - but how would you feel after 2 months? 6 months? a year? Particularly when the Devs say... "It's hard coded in game - we cannot change it, ever."?
I would suggest you look at the feedback on this - how many posters are for this? How many against? Yeah, forum posters are only a small sample - but are they a representative sample? Because if so, do you think this is a good decision by Vigil?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
WAR's problem is not in the concept (beside the 2 factions instead of 3) it's in the execution... the bugs and the half dead dev team from all the EA cutbacks.
This game needs more than 2 factions and it needs to be all about PvP.
Also... PvP based game are elitist games... you will never see a PvP game dethrone WoW or even come close, even the best one you could imagine.
WAR, AoC, GW, GW2, Mortal Online, Darkfall, APB... None of these have/had a chance to bring WoW challenging numbers. (Except WAR who pretended to cather to all markets but was really all about PVP)