Great write up. Kudos. Only thing I really wish was in the game is swimming. Not because I think it's a necessary mechanic, but because I really enjoyed exploring the reefs in STV in WoW. Was there a point to exploring them? Not really. But man did it add to the immersion of that zone and it gave you a sense of "I wonder if there is anything to find out here". The possibilities of adding a sea monster world boss were there, although Blizz never opted to do anything expect cater to MMO addicts and top raiding guilds so, alas, no world bosses in the seas.
Either way, can't wait to play a game with a good community for once and kill the many months left until SW:TOR.
Great write up. Kudos. Only thing I really wish was in the game is swimming. Not because I think it's a necessary mechanic, but because I really enjoyed exploring the reefs in STV in WoW. Was there a point to exploring them? Not really. But man did it add to the immersion of that zone and it gave you a sense of "I wonder if there is anything to find out here". The possibilities of adding a sea monster world boss were there, although Blizz never opted to do anything expect cater to MMO addicts and top raiding guilds so, alas, no world bosses in the seas.
Either way, can't wait to play a game with a good community for once and kill the many months left until SW:TOR.
Actually it's probably due to a couple of games prior to WoW having underwater epic bosses.
EQ1's giant fish stick for example was an underwater raid boss. Horrible experience to be had even by the most horrible raid experiences in any game.
I'm sure it's not been done since because someone before hand tried it, it sucked, no one's had the gall to revisit the idea. But I'd like to see it done.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Great write up. Kudos. Only thing I really wish was in the game is swimming. Not because I think it's a necessary mechanic, but because I really enjoyed exploring the reefs in STV in WoW. Was there a point to exploring them? Not really. But man did it add to the immersion of that zone and it gave you a sense of "I wonder if there is anything to find out here". The possibilities of adding a sea monster world boss were there, although Blizz never opted to do anything expect cater to MMO addicts and top raiding guilds so, alas, no world bosses in the seas.
Either way, can't wait to play a game with a good community for once and kill the many months left until SW:TOR.
Actually it's probably due to a couple of games prior to WoW having underwater epic bosses.
EQ1's giant fish stick for example was an underwater raid boss. Horrible experience to be had even by the most horrible raid experiences in any game.
I'm sure it's not been done since because someone before hand tried it, it sucked, no one's had the gall to revisit the idea. But I'd like to see it done.
Good lord I hated the underwater boss in Siren's Grotto. Most underwater encounters are absolute discomfort. I don't mind making underwater an explore thing, or possibly even an encounter or two. But it really shouldn't be more than cosmetic at least from my side. Hopefully something that will be added down the road.
@Persimmons and @etra, thanks for the replies. I deduce that the interesting part is 1 daily hour and the rest is grind and professions. Well, I can deal with the grind, no problem. All MMO's are a grind, nothing new here. Now I'm trying WoW ~ yes... I didn't like it but most of my friends are into it, so it is a must to give it a shot ~ and though the grind is masked and disguised for the most part, there is a lot of it in WoW. And of course in every other MMO that we can name here. It's the RPG part, creating and developing a character.
So, no problem with the grindy thing. I will call you or whisp to grind together with me
Man.... this entire read just made me want to play this even more so than I already do--I mean I am already dying (I actually sat and watched character creation videos for about an hour, and then watched gameplay videos for another hour). But honestly, after reading your post I think all the questions I had were pretty much...clarified. I must ask though, how much does this game deviate from FFXI, and are they all positive changes?
@MasterSr - sorry if there are typos - at a baseball game and posting between innings on my phone!
That's a very difficult question to answer since they're very different games in a lot of ways and whether it's a plus or minus depends on your play style. I tried to point out the main variations in the main post, but I'll do my best to summarize. Just my opinion whether it's a positive or negative.
Same:
-Multilingual servers (+)
-Linkshells (currently not as much info about members available as FFXI but they're changing searches I believe)
-Multiple jobs/classes on a single char (+)
-Single char included, up to 8 available for more $ (neutral)
-Similar inventory cap (80 to start at least - neutral)
-Botanist and miner play similar to gathering in FFXI (-)
-Immersive storyline (+ though in FFXI you seemed to have more effect on your environment, but this may change by release from some of the info I've heard about the reputation/fame system)
-Similar character races (neutral)
-Similar mobs (it's FF after all)
-Similar to FFXI you will likely look up craft recipes from a fansite (neutral)
Different:
-Completely different battle system - active rather than auto-attack which I thought would be bad, but it's actually quite fun unless you're a mage at the moment (+)
-Completely different crafting system (+)
-HP regens while running around when not in active mode (+)
-MP does not (- more difficult to level mages than needed in beta phase 3 but they said this would be adjusted but so MP was still challenging to manage)
-Guildleves (+)
-Death penalty is currently 3 minute weakness - no exp loss (+)
-Group play in beta 3 isn't nearly balanced or encouraged yet aside from boredom and fun factory (- but expect adjustment)
-Bazaar system like FFXI in Rolanberry Fields (- as is but + if search function added to make browsing easier)
-Voiceovers in certain scenes (neutral)
-Better music (+++)
-Fights require being completely present (+ hate afkers)
-Fun to fish and craft (+)
-Journal keeps track of quests so there are few "where the hell was I" moments (+)
There's probably some things I missed but my hands are crazy numb so I need to go cheer more
That's because they've seen it. Sorry, but you are over hyping what most (who have seen/played) aren't interest in, because its got so many bad and antiquated design elements.
Show me on other MMO (Besides FFXI) that has such detailed cutscenes throughout the entire game.
Just one.
All I'm asking.
Edit: Also, please give me one example of a game using this style class and skill system.
Oh my, cutscenes are so worth it over making something that is actually fun.
Just about every other MMO uses the same class system. The only difference is the ease of changing.
That's because they've seen it. Sorry, but you are over hyping what most (who have seen/played) aren't interest in, because its got so many bad and antiquated design elements.
Show me on other MMO (Besides FFXI) that has such detailed cutscenes throughout the entire game.
Just one.
All I'm asking.
Edit: Also, please give me one example of a game using this style class and skill system.
Oh my, cutscenes are so worth it over making something that is actually fun.
Just about every other MMO uses the same class system. The only difference is the ease of changing.
You failed to answer my questions. Other MMOs also do not allow you to customize your skills as you like.
I answered your question. If you honesty think having decent cutscences makes a MMO, then you're a lost cause. Quite a few in FF XIV don't even have voice overs, or in fact any sound at all. There are even those that a graphically uninteresting. So even calling them good, is highly subjective. FF XIV is certainly not even close to the standard of their stand alone titles.
There is nothing special about FF XIV's skill or class system, other than what I said (i.e. you can switch with ease).
Plenty of MMOs let you customize skills (often refered to as talent systems, runes, set skills, etc), and more so than FF XIV does. You sure you've played anything but FF XI?
I answered your question. If you honesty think having decent cutscences makes a MMO, then you're a lost cause. Quite a few in FF XIV don't even have voice overs, or in fact any sound at all. There are even those that a graphically uninteresting. So even calling them good, is highly subjective. FF XIV is certainly not even close to the standard of their stand alone titles.
There is nothing special about FF XIV's skill or class system, other than what I said (i.e. you can switch with ease).
Plenty of MMOs let you customize skills (often refered to as talent systems, runes, set skills, etc), and more so than FF XIV does. You sure you've played anything but FF XI?
Now you are just spouting hate. Nothing different from FFXIV's class system than other MMOs? Are you kidding? You can customize a class by giving it skills from just about any job (with limitations). Show me a MMO that does that. Even Tera, which people are lauding about their class system, only allows you to mix and match skills in that archetype.
Do you realize you can also purchase additional skills/passives traits through guild marks too, which are closer to the talent/skill/feat trees that you describe as being so similar to FFXIV's?
It goes beyond ease of switching. Not only can you switch jobs whenever you please without having to reroll characters you can customize their skills however you want. Want a Marauder who mostly uses Conjurer skills? You can do that. Want to make a class loaded on support skills? Go ahead. As long as you unlocked the abilities by leveling the jobs, you can freely change out abilities.
You shouldn't bash what's possibly the greatest feature of FFXIV's, just like fanboys shouldn't blindly defend the laggy UI and poor controls. Try not to take such an extremist view point.
Sirs, let me consider the skills system one of the most original and innovative features of XIV, as it is, and probably many people cannot understand why it's so positive to switch to one 'archetype' to another without having alts, but at thine own. I would admit that UI performance is terrible and laggy and unresponsive, from what I've seen in the many videos that are disposable on the net. It seems it goes an eternity from your action to when it occurs. This horrible detail could be considered as the major weapon of XIV's detractors. And they would have a strong point there, and their criticism could make SE to realize it's a grand problem concerning the UI and that must be solved at once. So that, critics on that matter are welcome!
I answered your question. If you honesty think having decent cutscences makes a MMO, then you're a lost cause. Quite a few in FF XIV don't even have voice overs, or in fact any sound at all. There are even those that a graphically uninteresting. So even calling them good, is highly subjective. FF XIV is certainly not even close to the standard of their stand alone titles.
There is nothing special about FF XIV's skill or class system, other than what I said (i.e. you can switch with ease).
Plenty of MMOs let you customize skills (often refered to as talent systems, runes, set skills, etc), and more so than FF XIV does. You sure you've played anything but FF XI?
Now you are just spouting hate. Nothing different from FFXIV's class system than other MMOs? Are you kidding? You can customize a class by giving it skills from just about any job (with limitations). Show me a MMO that does that. Even Tera, which people are lauding about their class system, only allows you to mix and match skills in that archetype.
Do you realize you can also purchase additional skills/passives traits through guild marks too, which are closer to the talent/skill/feat trees that you describe as being so similar to FFXIV's?
It goes beyond ease of switching. Not only can you switch jobs whenever you please without having to reroll characters you can customize their skills however you want. Want a Marauder who mostly uses Conjurer skills? You can do that. Want to make a class loaded on support skills? Go ahead. As long as you unlocked the abilities by leveling the jobs, you can freely change out abilities.
You shouldn't bash what's possibly the greatest feature of FFXIV's, just like fanboys shouldn't blindly defend the laggy UI and poor controls. Try not to take such an extremist view point.
Guild Wars, actually. All be it limited to a two classes combination. However even then the variation in builds is way higher than in FF XIV, even if just taking a single character.
CO lets you pick any skill from any archetype, which can be further tweaked through purchasing advantages, rank ups, etc.
Although no longer possible due to the NGE, SWG used to have a similar system.
Lets also not forget EVE Online.
I know exactly what you can do with the skills, as I'm in beta. It is nothing special, or new. In fact there's nothing new about FF XIV, as its all been done before. The problem is that FF XIV has just about everything implemented in a clumsy (and/or antiquated) way. So while it may sound like a good feature on paper, (taken from beta forum posts) when playing a high percentage feel more frustrated than actually having fun.
Personally, I think FFXIV has some promise to it. It also has some pitfalls, too. No MMO is perfect after all.
Personally, I think the class system is actually pretty cool. I like the ability to switch between classes on the fly and level them up as I want to. It beats making a zillion different characters for different things and different types of crafting, too. It'll also save some cash (not much) in the long run, too. It also cuts down on database stuff too. I'm not too sure how many people will have more then one char save for people who have friends who play on different servers.
That's about the only thing I can see.
As of Phase 3, combat has become a lot faster then it was before. I like the levequest system, tbh. No more hunting around for that random npc to go do grind missions and come back - or downloading some 3rd party program to help you find said quest area. It's very casual-player friendly. When you finish a quest? A atherite node appears and you can teleport back to the node and toss up another one. It's basically like dailies (well, 48hrs..) but at least they're not trying to hide what it is.
Personally? I kind of like it. It's nothing new, or revolutionary - but it's more like they've taken chunks from some things that've worked and rolled them together.
I do dislike the menu system. It's slow and clunky. But I can live with it if the gameplay is good, and so far? It has been. I've had fun with it so far.
Crafting? Makes people want to cry. Really cry. That's the one thing I think you forgot to mention to folks. Sometimes you'll get crafting xp. Sometimes you won't.
Comments
Great write up. Kudos. Only thing I really wish was in the game is swimming. Not because I think it's a necessary mechanic, but because I really enjoyed exploring the reefs in STV in WoW. Was there a point to exploring them? Not really. But man did it add to the immersion of that zone and it gave you a sense of "I wonder if there is anything to find out here". The possibilities of adding a sea monster world boss were there, although Blizz never opted to do anything expect cater to MMO addicts and top raiding guilds so, alas, no world bosses in the seas.
Either way, can't wait to play a game with a good community for once and kill the many months left until SW:TOR.
Actually it's probably due to a couple of games prior to WoW having underwater epic bosses.
EQ1's giant fish stick for example was an underwater raid boss. Horrible experience to be had even by the most horrible raid experiences in any game.
I'm sure it's not been done since because someone before hand tried it, it sucked, no one's had the gall to revisit the idea. But I'd like to see it done.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Good lord I hated the underwater boss in Siren's Grotto. Most underwater encounters are absolute discomfort. I don't mind making underwater an explore thing, or possibly even an encounter or two. But it really shouldn't be more than cosmetic at least from my side. Hopefully something that will be added down the road.
END OF LINE_
~V
@Persimmons and @etra, thanks for the replies. I deduce that the interesting part is 1 daily hour and the rest is grind and professions. Well, I can deal with the grind, no problem. All MMO's are a grind, nothing new here. Now I'm trying WoW ~ yes... I didn't like it but most of my friends are into it, so it is a must to give it a shot ~ and though the grind is masked and disguised for the most part, there is a lot of it in WoW. And of course in every other MMO that we can name here. It's the RPG part, creating and developing a character.
So, no problem with the grindy thing. I will call you or whisp to grind together with me
It is a question of fangs.
awsome. just awsome. nothing more 2 say
A lot of great info in this thread, not just from the OP, but from others as well. Thanks guys, much appreciated!
Man.... this entire read just made me want to play this even more so than I already do--I mean I am already dying (I actually sat and watched character creation videos for about an hour, and then watched gameplay videos for another hour). But honestly, after reading your post I think all the questions I had were pretty much...clarified. I must ask though, how much does this game deviate from FFXI, and are they all positive changes?
EDIT: Formatting fixed. Yay computers > phones.
@MasterSr - sorry if there are typos - at a baseball game and posting between innings on my phone!
That's a very difficult question to answer since they're very different games in a lot of ways and whether it's a plus or minus depends on your play style. I tried to point out the main variations in the main post, but I'll do my best to summarize. Just my opinion whether it's a positive or negative.
Same:
-Multilingual servers (+)
-Linkshells (currently not as much info about members available as FFXI but they're changing searches I believe)
-Multiple jobs/classes on a single char (+)
-Single char included, up to 8 available for more $ (neutral)
-Similar inventory cap (80 to start at least - neutral)
-Classes similar to jobs in FFXI (+)
-Controls (neutral - hopefully they'll add customization)
-Player dependent economy (+)
-Botanist and miner play similar to gathering in FFXI (-)
-Immersive storyline (+ though in FFXI you seemed to have more effect on your environment, but this may change by release from some of the info I've heard about the reputation/fame system)
-Similar character races (neutral)
-Similar mobs (it's FF after all)
-Similar to FFXI you will likely look up craft recipes from a fansite (neutral)
Different:
-Completely different battle system - active rather than auto-attack which I thought would be bad, but it's actually quite fun unless you're a mage at the moment (+)
-Completely different crafting system (+)
-HP regens while running around when not in active mode (+)
-MP does not (- more difficult to level mages than needed in beta phase 3 but they said this would be adjusted but so MP was still challenging to manage)
-Guildleves (+)
-Death penalty is currently 3 minute weakness - no exp loss (+)
-Group play in beta 3 isn't nearly balanced or encouraged yet aside from boredom and fun factory (- but expect adjustment)
-Bazaar system like FFXI in Rolanberry Fields (- as is but + if search function added to make browsing easier)
-Voiceovers in certain scenes (neutral)
-Better music (+++)
-Fights require being completely present (+ hate afkers)
-Fun to fish and craft (+)
-Journal keeps track of quests so there are few "where the hell was I" moments (+)
There's probably some things I missed but my hands are crazy numb so I need to go cheer more
Oh my, cutscenes are so worth it over making something that is actually fun.
Just about every other MMO uses the same class system. The only difference is the ease of changing.
You failed to answer my questions. Other MMOs also do not allow you to customize your skills as you like.
I answered your question. If you honesty think having decent cutscences makes a MMO, then you're a lost cause. Quite a few in FF XIV don't even have voice overs, or in fact any sound at all. There are even those that a graphically uninteresting. So even calling them good, is highly subjective. FF XIV is certainly not even close to the standard of their stand alone titles.
There is nothing special about FF XIV's skill or class system, other than what I said (i.e. you can switch with ease).
Plenty of MMOs let you customize skills (often refered to as talent systems, runes, set skills, etc), and more so than FF XIV does. You sure you've played anything but FF XI?
Now you are just spouting hate. Nothing different from FFXIV's class system than other MMOs? Are you kidding? You can customize a class by giving it skills from just about any job (with limitations). Show me a MMO that does that. Even Tera, which people are lauding about their class system, only allows you to mix and match skills in that archetype.
Do you realize you can also purchase additional skills/passives traits through guild marks too, which are closer to the talent/skill/feat trees that you describe as being so similar to FFXIV's?
It goes beyond ease of switching. Not only can you switch jobs whenever you please without having to reroll characters you can customize their skills however you want. Want a Marauder who mostly uses Conjurer skills? You can do that. Want to make a class loaded on support skills? Go ahead. As long as you unlocked the abilities by leveling the jobs, you can freely change out abilities.
You shouldn't bash what's possibly the greatest feature of FFXIV's, just like fanboys shouldn't blindly defend the laggy UI and poor controls. Try not to take such an extremist view point.
Sirs, let me consider the skills system one of the most original and innovative features of XIV, as it is, and probably many people cannot understand why it's so positive to switch to one 'archetype' to another without having alts, but at thine own. I would admit that UI performance is terrible and laggy and unresponsive, from what I've seen in the many videos that are disposable on the net. It seems it goes an eternity from your action to when it occurs. This horrible detail could be considered as the major weapon of XIV's detractors. And they would have a strong point there, and their criticism could make SE to realize it's a grand problem concerning the UI and that must be solved at once. So that, critics on that matter are welcome!
It is a question of fangs.
Guild Wars, actually. All be it limited to a two classes combination. However even then the variation in builds is way higher than in FF XIV, even if just taking a single character.
CO lets you pick any skill from any archetype, which can be further tweaked through purchasing advantages, rank ups, etc.
Although no longer possible due to the NGE, SWG used to have a similar system.
Lets also not forget EVE Online.
I know exactly what you can do with the skills, as I'm in beta. It is nothing special, or new. In fact there's nothing new about FF XIV, as its all been done before. The problem is that FF XIV has just about everything implemented in a clumsy (and/or antiquated) way. So while it may sound like a good feature on paper, (taken from beta forum posts) when playing a high percentage feel more frustrated than actually having fun.
Hate isn't saying it as it is.
Personally, I think FFXIV has some promise to it. It also has some pitfalls, too. No MMO is perfect after all.
Personally, I think the class system is actually pretty cool. I like the ability to switch between classes on the fly and level them up as I want to. It beats making a zillion different characters for different things and different types of crafting, too. It'll also save some cash (not much) in the long run, too. It also cuts down on database stuff too. I'm not too sure how many people will have more then one char save for people who have friends who play on different servers.
That's about the only thing I can see.
As of Phase 3, combat has become a lot faster then it was before. I like the levequest system, tbh. No more hunting around for that random npc to go do grind missions and come back - or downloading some 3rd party program to help you find said quest area. It's very casual-player friendly. When you finish a quest? A atherite node appears and you can teleport back to the node and toss up another one. It's basically like dailies (well, 48hrs..) but at least they're not trying to hide what it is.
Personally? I kind of like it. It's nothing new, or revolutionary - but it's more like they've taken chunks from some things that've worked and rolled them together.
I do dislike the menu system. It's slow and clunky. But I can live with it if the gameplay is good, and so far? It has been. I've had fun with it so far.
Crafting? Makes people want to cry. Really cry. That's the one thing I think you forgot to mention to folks. Sometimes you'll get crafting xp. Sometimes you won't.
It's all luck.