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WoW´s New hardcore..
etlar
Member UncommonPosts: 863
As the title implies, you might be thinking wow..what hardcore, its wow? here the short story:
i decided to lvl a character to max lvl and get full t9 (which is easy if you have the patience to pug)
so, once done, i applied for a newly started raid guild, thinking, no problem i got full t9, this is the response i got after a quick inspect:
You need to do more hardcore runs.
me: do you mean more pugs? i played vanilla and recenly came back, dont tell me pugs is hardcore, how am i supposed to get gear without a raid guild?
x: do some more hardcore runs, like toc or or something, and then give me a tell again.
thats the short story....so PUG´s is hardcore? and then you can get a raid guild? im inclined to join EQ2x just because of that lol?
what do you guys think of wow´s way to handle joining a guild? just curious:)
Edit: a PUG is a Pick Up Group
Comments
Not to trivialize your experience but, that's not "WoW's" definition of hardcore or "WoW's" method of forming a guild. That's only the viewpoint of that guild leader you were talking with.
Not to say you won't experience that again from another person or guild. It's just not any kind of officially sanctioned point of view and shouldn't turn you off to the game entirely. Although to be honest, I left the game myself not only out of boredom but also because of what the community had become. Less and less people wanting to work together, and more people just wanting to zerg / wtffaceroll through everything. BOOOOORRRRRRIIINNNNNNG.
Im pretty sure by hardcore they mean do more heroic 5 mans, also that is the view of one guild leader.
Thank you both for the reply, and at echo: he does not men more 5 man runs since i carry most the gear you get from those runs
but the fact that we are already discussing gear and inavailability to join guilds just seems to underline the point.
I know most guild leaders and recruiting officers go by Gear Score, experience, and time avilability.
So, lets take a look at your toon! What's his or her name and server? :P
there is no short anwser to your post, but to say, i agree, i will not be sanctioned, simply because my friends enjoy it still, so i play it, but i agree, the community is not what it was, and i dont seem to get the point of the game anymore if its not to cooperate to become better
MMO's in general have to point other than to entertain. That much WoW does very well.
Well certain guilds require gear sure, they want to have players who are a little more experienced in their classes. If you don't have gear to get into a high end raiding guild, you could always try to find a casual raiding guild or try to get into an off team.
You blew the lid because one guy in the game talk semi nonsense ("to you"), hmm, is that in proper scale.
There are at least a few thousand more that might make more sense to you. Running into an odd person should not trouble you in a game, or in the real world.
Come to think of it, you are coining a new term because of one encounter?
You should be asking yourself if that is the kind of guild you want to be a part of... Would be nice if people would stop guilding up with these kind of people. It's not about friends it's about what gear you have or how many runs you been on..
I thought the guild was supposed to help you out with that and that is what guilds are for. Help one another out and possibly make new friends to play the game with.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
It depends
Some guilds are built with specific agendas. Say they are social guild, just join and talk. Some are levelling guilds, bring a low level in and level together or whatever. Some are pvp guilds, they have premades, or zerg orgrimmar. Some are specific raiding guilds, 10 man icc hardmode or something. To join a guild, be ready to meet the agendas of a guild. If you never pvp you will find pvp guilds not very welcoming. If you talk to a hardmode raiding guild and you have barely the gear to survive the unavoidable damage from one boss aoe, what would you think the guild can do with you?
Some applicants are sincere, they are working on their gear on their own. Lacking a few pieces is not a problem, as gear will come. Some applicants are parasites, they want to join, to be carried, to be geared and just leech till they find another ship to jump to. Some applicants are clueless, some are arrogant. A guild leader has limited time to check out each applicant. He must use limited time he has to find the right candidates for his guild.
Some guild leaders are good, as a planner, as a leader, as an organisser, or combinations. Some guild leaders are arrogant, discriminant, impolite, or outright jerks. Applicants need to be aware of that, and decide whether the rest of that guild is likely to be similar to the guild leader.
Guilds are just a bunch of people, whether they need or should help each other depends. I can be helpful to a few but I need not unconditionally help everyone in a guild. After all, I do not choose every member and I can reserve my resources for just the few I feel like helping.
Ok, well usually when I am in a guild we can work with people, and get them to a point where they can be useful. I mean, are guilds being limited in wow now to like 10 people a guild? I think that some people just value gear and image over real friendship... I wouldn't want to be a part of a stuck up crowd like that.
The guild should be able to offer you something aswell.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
guild need to offer me something?
Its like the neighbors, or your friends, the selected few you want to spend some time with, regularly, not your lifetime.
Guildies are people I have more to interact with, some of them. Not all of every member in a guild. Actually if you talk about friends, RealID and friendlist are more appropriate tools. As I already mentioned above, guild exists for various reasons, not always friends.
As for offer me something, that sounds a bit greedy. If everyone wants a bit of a guild, who is the one to be leeched? No, no. Guilds are usually formed for a certain purpose, not always for raiding, not always for gear. Social guilds never raid.
Some hardmode raiding guilds are formed by people who already have too much gear, they want a team to do achievement, or test out some strategies.
On the other hand, gear is not all that important beyond a certain minimal level. If you look at those dedicated hardmode teams, not all of them are geared to the teeth, they just have enough gear to survive the basics, but they have the necessary raid awareness to beat the hardmodes. Gear won't help you if you stand in the fire, coldflames or black puddles. You hardly need top line dps to beat most of the hardmode encounters, as half of your play time is spent running or dodging or just killing orbs or viles as they spawn, orbs and viles that have 200k health, you can 2shot or 4shot depending on you gear.
Ok well i thought guilds were there to help each other out when they need it or to have somebody to kill time with talking to on the game, or make friends even with people that share a love of the game like you do.
As far as raiding. Social guilds do raid I am sure, I haven't played wow in awhile, but if I was palying it and had a social guild why wouldn't I want to try to go raiding or to get some of my guys that are ready to go in raid and take them?
Or why would I not want to help people get ready to raid in my guild? That just means more guildies prepared for raid. Now adays guilds want the easy way out. Instead of having to build a guild and help the guild they just want to get you in the guild to use you pretty much.
I guess I can see what you are talking about, but that is not the kind of guild I would want to be in , unless it was a last resort because I could not find any other guild that does raids.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
You talk like every guild need to be everything for everyone, which is not necessarily the most efficient way. Given the diversity in aspiration, interest, personality, gaming style of so many members, meeting the needs, even some of the needs of everyone is self defeating.
That is why some guilds are special guilds. Some social guilds never officially organise raids, you can form your own, that is your own little raid. Some guilds are 25man raids, you can form your own pvp parties, 10man raids. Some are levelling guilds, you are expected to change guild when hitting level cap, if you need to raid.
Guild leaders are also players, they need not devote their lifetime to organising the guild, they only want some hours in guild matters, and the rest they game, and in the few hours they can spend on a guild, they can only manage a few things at a time. So they organse 10man, 25man, pvp or whatever, but hardly any guild can manage too many things at once.
That sounds ok for me, as I still have friend list and readID list to supplement.
I dunno, I don't fuck with real id, but I know what you are talking about. I am more use to swg and aion style game and the guilds don't seem to be that picky... I guess wow is alot different. I haven't played it in so long because of all the xpacs and how much they charge for each one.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I think the OP needs to find a casual raiding guild, and the one he applies to sounds like a progression guild. If a guild is already clearing ICC 25 man normal and working on hard mode, T9 just won't cut it. For a progression guild, you are also expected to know all the fights.
A casual raiding guild that do some ICC 10/25 (and may even pug a few members) would be a lot less demanding. Just like the other guy was saying, it depends on the guild. They are NOT the same.
I have multiple toons. One is in a progression guild. The guild is friendly but you are expected to play well (with decent gear) on top of being helpful. Oh, they don't look at gearscore but they will do an analysis of an applicant's gear (detailed choice, gemming decisions, talent build ...). The guild is one of the top ones on my server. Even with better than (on average) ICC 25 gear, took us many tries to down hard mode Sindragosa. You really need to have the gear, and work TOGETHER for these fights.
I also have toons in casual social guilds and things are a lot more casual. No one cares about gear.
Very much the case for me, different alts for different evenings.
Raids are fun once a week or twice, hard mode are both tough and yet fun in that it stressed me. I never got HM Sindy down, always die half way through the last phase as we have the tombs on either side of sindy for tanks to drop stacks in turn. Likewise HM PP is messy. The raiding guild does not look at gearscore, new members are invited to play with us during the less demanding hardmode encounters and assessed on his/her performance. Gear is not an issue, half of the hardmode gears are being DEed and BoEs shelved in guildbank regularly. Fresh recruits, they can be fully regeared in weeks. Why do we need them to be fully geared in the first place? So long as they deliver, and fulfilled their role, but as your rightly pointed out, a minimal and well thought out spec+gear will help provide that delivery.
Non raid guilds are fun as I put my crafting alts there, so we can farm mats together, talk or just do nothing serious. The social guild has no requirements on membership application, just be nice.
Experiencing different aspects of a game like WoW is rewarding, as there are so many facets of that game.
This is a side effect of the recent changes to WoW and this is the way that the devs want it to go, which is ppl not in raiding guilds can catch up just a step below, the side effect to this is guilds are no longer your classic group of friendly ppl helping eachother more often than not you are required to fend for yourself and go out and get your stuff and when your "GOOD" then join a good guild that can help you improve your character a little bit.
It wasnt always like this however having played vanilla all the way to WoTLK I remember when we used to recruit ppl and actually gear them up and help them get up to a standard to continue help the guild, this is no longer the case which is a bit mmm, but ohh well. I wouldnt expect much better.
Sounds like you got a bad guild.
Im in a guild that takes anyoen and teaches them how to raid ICC, they only ask for a less than full t-9 gearscore ( before you get into the raid, theres plenty of peopel who will help you gear up too) and the desire to succeed.
The guilds are out there, you just have to find them.
Badge gear doesn't cut it anymore, Except, it does, with the 30% buff. Really, without the 30% buff, it's still fine. But people want you to be ULTRA-DUPER GEARED before they even consider inviting you, because nobody inside World of Warcraft actually has the skill or talent to play video games anymore, and so as a result, they want to be carried through all possible content without the slightest amount of effort.
Now...those guys on Aggramar who raid ICC in blues, that's another story.
You hit the nail on the head with this statement. I left the game finally in Dec 09 as I personally thought Blizz were making everything just too easy. I have played WoW since vanilla WoW was only in beta testing and also continued right through the BC and WotLK. Now after returning recently to join one of my friends who is playing for the first time and really enjoying it, I have noticed the way Blizz have changed the game all in just about eight months. If you want to raid and such there is no longer a need to be in a guild, if you want to do just normal dungeon runs there is no need for a guild, if you want to PvP again there is no need for a guild. The new dungeon finder and PvP finder does what everybody wants puts you in PvP, dungeon or raid with a full group, you do your bit get rewards honor points or gear and do it all over again.
This is the way Blizz made it so everybody can experiance all of the above. Also the fact the game is so easy to lvl and do these raids now is just a way for Blizz to try and bring in more customers and to some extent keep the current player base (this is all my own opinion of course)
Before I left in Dec 09 I had built a solid guild. With the help of many of my closest friends we where able to meet the requirments of all guild members including :
: Leveling from 1-80
: PvP in all lvl brackets + an arena team
: Dungeon runs in all lvl brackets to help people get geared (all runs are groups of people at the correct lvl no boosts)
: Raiding two ten man teams doing raids + progression to hard modes
We started as a social guild of friends (both real life and in game). I kept the guild small to start with then grew it really quick and that social aspect was still there when I left. Myself and other guild members had come up with ideas to keep everybody involved including a guild lotto, fishing comps, duelling comps, social gatherings generally in a random pub in game just chat (whilst getting drunk in game).
Also we had a guild meeting once every two weeks to discuss ways to improve the guild to find extra things to do in game (like above). This was also a good chance to find out where we were at as guild eg: progression how far along the raid teams are, leveling at what level are differant members do they need help to get the extra few levels to hit 80 so we can gear them to raid IF THEY want to, and finally just another chance to catch up with everybody (some may play at differant times so you dont always have a chance to chat with everybody). I made sure we always had at least 90% of the guild online for the meetings by putting it on the in game calander and mailing people both in and out of game to make sure the time and day was ok for everybody.
I know not every guild is ran like this but my willing and the help of my officers we did this of course at times it was very trying and some people came and went some by choice some where kicked but that is the life of WoW. In closing as I said earlier the game has changed and with it some of the people in game have changed also. They become very self focused in thinking I dont need a guild I can use the dungeon finder and pug everything as long as I have my friends list to talk to people I want to talk to.
This brings my rant to an end and maybe my last time in game to an end also as after my one month subb ends I am gone for good since Blizz seem intent on making an MMO a single player experaince.
Don't Hunt What You Can't Kill
I'll never join a guild that wants guys like me as members.
You got fun guilds and hardcore guilds in WoW.
Ive been for a long time in a hardcore guild where u had to be online everyday from 18.30 until 23.00 for raid.
The one good thing was everyone in this guild been people with skill everyraid every boss first try depends if with archievement or not( than u wipe 2h on a boss to get it right ,and noone complains) and its fun but after sometime it feels like a job .. everyday same shit farming for buff food/pots etz raiding 5h its preety boring after soometime.
On the other hand u got those fun guilds which have lets say 30 members which 28 of them are dps and 1 tank and healer ... and when theyre lucky the go raid 1 time a week and after 1 wipe half of the people leaving the raid ... And that is even worse than anything else
Basicly those are those 2 standart types of guilds in wow there are some exceptions but very rare
I am the punishment of God...
If you had not committed great sins,
God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you
Genghis Khan
you can easilly get into ICC 10 pugs with full T9 and equal trinkets and offsets, thats how you can gather gear for joining a Hc raiding guild I guess?
"You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn."
Also, don't think that the problems are solely with the guilds either. It is not uncommon for someone to join a guild to upgrade their armor and then to move on to a different guild once they have all they feel they can get from the guild they first joined. The more focused on gear a guild tends to be the more likely you are to meet those kinds of people.