Having had some time to think about the system they are implementing, I think I actually like it more than the alternative.
All MMOs with linear progression (should) have a section in the design document about how long it should take a player to reach max level. How this is estimated varies, of course, but it's safe to assume that SquareEnix, based on their experiences with FFXI, base their time to max level on players playing as much as 8-10 hours a day (higher than average, but still a significant part of the population).
Okay, so let's say the they want time to max level from launch day to be 100 days at 10 hours a day. That's 1000 hours of active character advancement, the majority of which is most likely to be considered a grind. If anything, I think this is a low estimate, but the numbers are easy to work with. So, they base their experience curve on this model, and get a good idea of how much content and time sinks they need to keep most players busy for however long they want to play.
There are some issues with this, though:
Western players are going to see how slow their experience bars move, and moan about the grind
Gold farmers play 24/7 (multiple players on each account), get to high levels in less than half the time of others, and get to screw up the economy by farming high level areas for weeks before other players get there.
Many casual players will feel the game is too time consuming, and give up after seeing just a fraction of the content.
So much time is spent on the levelling process that many player either don't bother with content that doesn't give xp rewards, or feel they get left behind if they do take the time to explore.
So to solve this, introduce the surplus system. Keep the 100 days to max level requirement, but instead of basing it on the 10% of players who play 8-10 or more hours per day, assume that 80% of subscribers can dedicate an average of 2.5 hours per day to playing the game. Since people have more time certain days than others, the cap should be per week instead of per day.
The advantages compared to the slow xp alternative are obvious to me:
A majority of players will be able to keep up with the fastest possible progression (at least for physical level and one or two jobs). No need to worry about out-levelling or getting out-levelled by your friends.
Developers can create content that is "just for fun" for all level ranges, since players who play a lot will have time to experience it without feeling that they are falling behind. As long as the game has content that is fun by its own merit, and alternate ways to advance your character, the number that pops up every time to reward you for killing a mob should be possible to forget.
The surplus system, given the conditions above, only penalizes progression for the tiny part of players who play more than 10 hours a day. The rest will either advance at the same rate, or faster, and might even realize the journey can be fun when you don't have to worry about the race, and those that enjoy the race can still work towards being the first to max out all jobs. It should be impossible to reach the xp cap for all of them even if you play 24/7.
I think the main problem isn't the system itself, but selling it to players. An easy test would be to offer two servers. One with the surplus system and at most 250 hours of grinding to get to max level, and one without, but with 25% of the xp gain and 1000 hours of grinding to get to max level. Of course, players on server one would complain about the surplus system, while players on server two would complain about the grind, but in the end, I think most people would choose the surplus system.
I honestly think this sounds like a brilliant way to create a slow paced, and social game without excluding casual players, or rewarding people for choosing the game over work/school/sleep.
You are obviously in the wrong forum with your well reasoned and well written post. These forums are for people who QQ without thought.
/kidding.
Seriously, even though very few have even thought about the implications of the system, and fewer still have tried it - there is nothing but flames. Personally, I think it is a very nice concept and Seriously doubt it will ever limit my play style. In fact I would go so far to say as it will not be noticed by 90% of the population. Yes this is a rough guess, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I hope SQE sticks to their guns on this one so we can have a chance to try something different.
Oh yeah, and nice analysis rather than knee jerk /emo nerdrage. Refreshing post for a change.
People are letting this fatigue system turn them into retards.. Do they not understand how FFXIV jobs work? Are they that ignorant to even listen or research? It's like one dude drank a cup of retard juice and said it was good so everyone had a cup... Bunch of f'n retards
If you play wow and you lvl your toon to 80 but stop training in skills at lvl 40 is your class going to be able to tank at 80, dps at 80, or heal at 80????? The answer is NO you f'n retards... same applies to FFXIV if you don't get skills from another class, then you are useless to every group at max lvl you f'n retards.. So yea, you have to lvl another class to be of any use to anyone at higher lvl's. So go lvl your main till xp runs out then lvl another till xp runs out, get more skills, become the dps, tank, healer your supposed to be if that is the class you enjoy playing...
So far as I understand it this surplus systems sounds great and I understand the way it will encourage more well rounded characters but the fact is, I never played FFXI, nor any other FF game for that matter. Some of us don't know how the job systems works. I can't think of any other game that does something quite like it. So, please explain how it works. All I know is that you can switch between classes outside of combat but beyond that I don't know anything. How does leveling one class effect how you operate in another class? How many classes do you need to lvl up in order to not be gimped at the endgame?
At this stage of the game , ill try and point out how it works, but is to early to say what is most effective.
The first i noticed when i got into my role is that no class have a designed role at all.All the classes are hybrids at start point.With a few exceptions.There is no main nuker(blm), tank healer or dps class.If you whant the classes to work that way you have to take the skills from diferent classes and make your own build of the roll you do whant to play.The good thin about the system is you can change the skills you already learned anytime as long as your not in combat.
So lets put an example.
I make a glady, i level up conjurer to take the healing skills,and marauder to take defensive skills. I also level lancer an archer to adquire the dps skills.
If the party requires a tank i put my build of healing defensive skills.
If i whant to dps , i put the skills from lancer and archer.
If i whant a tank that holds agro i make a mix of all the skills i have to balance out defence healing and dps.
The same aplys to mage classes, you have conjurer, is a blend of healer and nuker in 1 class.You would chooce the skills that works better at what you whant to do.
Also lets take note that we have "TRAITS" as well.They arent learned automaticly. They are bought with somethin you earn doing guild levels, and they are 2 types.
1-- normal job traits.
2-- stats converse traits.
Lets put an example, if i whant to change from gladi to healer, and i have all my stats on melle side,and you can only change an X ammount of stats per X time, there are a lot of traits that exchange melee stats for mage stats, and viceverse so you can have a decent mage build even if ur build is on melee.example.
VIT-10 INT +10
DEX+10 MND -10
and so on.
Also many job traits can be used in other classes to enforce them to make the build you like.They have a diferent Count/skill deposit so the ammount of traits you can have is counted separated from you skills.
Is really a very complex system and will take ages to master.I hope you get somehow an idea of how the system works.
edit; with a class system as complex as this i dont quite understand why people still bitching at surplus, theres just no point to lv just 1 single class, the system isnt designed that way, even without surplus exp. Honestly it just blows my mind away.
Just a quick question to everyone..... does anyone else, besides me, kind of like the system? I don't want to get left behind, I want to experience all the other classes and I feel that with the surplus system, I can take my time enjoying the game and not worry about not finding groups or getting left in the dust. I understand why hardcore players might mind, but I personally like the system, anyone with me....anyone?
Just a quick question to everyone..... does anyone else, besides me, kind of like the system? I don't want to get left behind, I want to experience all the other classes and I feel that with the surplus system, I can take my time enjoying the game and not worry about not finding groups or getting left in the dust. I understand why hardcore players might mind, but I personally like the system, anyone with me....anyone?
I am, not so much worried about being left behind or finding groups, but I think it will work better than the AION system of control that has a lvl/xp curve that shoots into orbit once you get mid range. From what I can see on this one its a pretty steady progression spread out over the entire range, at least thats the impression I get.
But yeah, I like what I see on it so far personally, as long as they maintain it along the way. Monitor its effect on the player base and adjust as needed so it neither hinders too much or rewards too much in either direction.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I tend to play mmorpgs a lot (not lately though, but that's a diff story) but whether you play a lot or a little, this will indeed make the game more fun. SE is not going to take it out, I can bet you. Reason being is that you can't get the most out of the multiclass thing if there is no reason to change your class. I sure wouldn't, I'd stick with one class all the way to max level. That would suck. Period. If you haven't played beta, then you don't probably get it.
I tend to play mmorpgs a lot (not lately though, but that's a diff story) but whether you play a lot or a little, this will indeed make the game more fun. SE is not going to take it out, I can bet you. Reason being is that you can't get the most out of the multiclass thing if there is no reason to change your class. I sure wouldn't, I'd stick with one class all the way to max level. That would suck. Period. If you haven't played beta, then you don't probably get it.
SE can't, and won't, change it.
exactly - which is why they won't see a penny of my money
A mechanic that allows me to try other classes and not be penalized is a good thing. Otherwise people would play the game like WoW and only try other classes once they get to max level. This allows people to explore and not constantly focusing on leveling. People see it as limiting when it's adding more freedom to the game.
Just a quick question to everyone..... does anyone else, besides me, kind of like the system? I don't want to get left behind, I want to experience all the other classes and I feel that with the surplus system, I can take my time enjoying the game and not worry about not finding groups or getting left in the dust. I understand why hardcore players might mind, but I personally like the system, anyone with me....anyone?
My biggest concern is the fact that it is time-based, leading to the regrettable situation where you will miss out on exp depending on which days of the week you participate in certain activities on certain classes. Since that has been partially cleared up by the statement that your time at 100% drains as a function of exp gained and not time spent, my only other big concern is the fact that the experience rate drops to zero rather than tapering off at 20% or so. I can't see what the justification for that could be.
While I still plan to play, I don't see how this system allows for more "freedom", forced diversity yes (maybe everyone will praise the system for that fact months later). This system has less freedom, because it attempts to sway you to play something else after so long. I agree that many new casuals will drop this game and the whole surplus thing will be for not.
Really, I think the biggest issue that I am surprised isn't being talked about is the fact that the game doesn't seem nearly as group centric, good and bad things could come of this but I enjoyed FFXIs community, thats really what kept the game going and less grouping SE stands a real chance at loosing that in this game. Whatever, 4-6 months from now we will all see.
While I still plan to play, I don't see how this system allows for more "freedom", forced diversity yes (maybe everyone will praise the system for that fact months later). This system has less freedom, because it attempts to sway you to play something else after so long. I agree that many new casuals will drop this game and the whole surplus thing will be for not.
Really, I think the biggest issue that I am surprised isn't being talked about is the fact that the game doesn't seem nearly as group centric, good and bad things could come of this but I enjoyed FFXIs community, thats really what kept the game going and less grouping SE stands a real chance at loosing that in this game. Whatever, 4-6 months from now we will all see.
You may have noticed by all the shouting that people are obsessed with getting to 'Max Level' for whatever reason.
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
Obviously this system is not going to be for everyone, but I bet that more than a few people would like it if they gave it a shot.
While I still plan to play, I don't see how this system allows for more "freedom", forced diversity yes (maybe everyone will praise the system for that fact months later). This system has less freedom, because it attempts to sway you to play something else after so long. I agree that many new casuals will drop this game and the whole surplus thing will be for not.
Really, I think the biggest issue that I am surprised isn't being talked about is the fact that the game doesn't seem nearly as group centric, good and bad things could come of this but I enjoyed FFXIs community, thats really what kept the game going and less grouping SE stands a real chance at loosing that in this game. Whatever, 4-6 months from now we will all see.
You may have noticed by all the shouting that people are obsessed with getting to 'Max Level' for whatever reason.
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
Obviously this system is not going to be for everyone, but I bet that more than a few people would like it if they gave it a shot.
You may have noticed by all the shouting that people are obsessed with getting to 'Max Level' for whatever reason.
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
...
That is patently silly. Apply this argument anywhere else and look how foolish it is: "We've decided to allow more freedom for women by taking away their right to vote, thus freeing them up to think about other things besides obsessing over who gets elected."
Everyone can change classes as much as they want. The surplus system doesn't make that possible. It's already possible. Even if it is good for someone to play multiple classes (and therefore good for the game to reward people for playing multiple classes), don't try to play that off a limitation as freedom. I do agree that every game needs rules and limitations and that the games can be vastly improved by them, but I can make that arguement without saying that limitations are freedom.
You may have noticed by all the shouting that people are obsessed with getting to 'Max Level' for whatever reason.
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
...
That is patently silly. Apply this argument anywhere else and look how foolish it is: "We've decided to allow more freedom for women by taking away their right to vote, thus freeing them up to think about other things besides obsessing over who gets elected."
Everyone can change classes as much as they want. The surplus system doesn't make that possible. It's already possible. Even if it is good for someone to play multiple classes (and therefore good for the game to reward people for playing multiple classes), don't try to play that off a limitation as freedom. I do agree that every game needs rules and limitations and that the games can be vastly improved by them, but I can make that arguement without saying that limitations are freedom.
Your comparison to voting is pretty much non sequitur.
As to your other comment, which does apply, I did not argue that there was no limitation. Of course it is a limitation - as are all game rules. That does not mean that a limitation can not cause (or allow for) freedom in other areas.
No one is forcing you to do anything. Not even play the game.
Yep, thats true there is no real force invovled but that still doesn't mean surplus is adding more freedom. Promoting diversity does not mean freedom. Technically its not really restricting you from just playing one class but the restrictions promote you switch, even if you really don't want to play that way. That is not freedom, doesn't matter if it is more beneficial to you to level multiples, without the surplus system you would have the freedom to play the "wrong way"(one job) unrestricted.
You may have noticed by all the shouting that people are obsessed with getting to 'Max Level' for whatever reason.
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
...
That is patently silly. Apply this argument anywhere else and look how foolish it is: "We've decided to allow more freedom for women by taking away their right to vote, thus freeing them up to think about other things besides obsessing over who gets elected."
Everyone can change classes as much as they want. The surplus system doesn't make that possible. It's already possible. Even if it is good for someone to play multiple classes (and therefore good for the game to reward people for playing multiple classes), don't try to play that off a limitation as freedom. I do agree that every game needs rules and limitations and that the games can be vastly improved by them, but I can make that arguement without saying that limitations are freedom.
Your comparison to voting is pretty much non sequitur.
As to your other comment, which does apply, I did not argue that there was no limitation. Of course it is a limitation - as are all game rules. That does not mean that a limitation can not cause (or allow for) freedom in other areas.
I say it creates more freedom since it frees a lot of us mmorpg-ers from that constant drive to level. Sure, without surplus you could still change classes, but what if half your guild sticks to one class and gets high level, and the rest actually utilize the multiclass system, they wouldn't be able to group. At least with surplus, the range won't be that extreme. Those that were trying to level up multiple classes would probably end up saying "Screw it, I'll just stick with one class so I can mindlessly chase after max level"...limiting freedom :P
The problem as well is when gamers rush to max level, they get bored and have a "now what?" feeling, then end up saying this game sucks and they quit. With surplus, players will advance "horizontally" as well as vertically so even when they hit max level, they still will feel like they put something into their characters and stick around. It might be quite smart as far as player retention is concerned.
Originally posted by slntnsnty
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
This is a reply from western game media about how t the mistranslations happend and how the lack of communications from Japan dev team was reaching Japanese players but not being released to English players forcing them to have to translate from Japanese sites and interviews, rather then having a english release of the new content being released to japanese players. 8/26
Title of story: Tanaka's Twitter Sent the Wrong Message
This pretty much covers the whole surplus system and hope this clears up all confussion about it.
** INFORMATION ALERT **** ***** INFORMATION ALERT ***** **** INFORMATION ALERT**
Hah! Japanese people are the most xenophobic you'll ever meet! They aren't just favoring Jp players, they downright prefer them! "Foreigner's" are just an after thought for profit.
Not to mention the huge ego of the company, which designed hit RPG video games and defined the genre of video game for the past 20 years without consulting the NA or EU markets. They merely translated it, patented it, sold it, made extra money just doing whatever they wanted. Why should they listen to the NA and EU market now? They could make a bestselling videogame with the American Flag burning on the cover and STILL have that game become a "Classic console RPG."
They only feign interest in our "foreign" opinions to make us feel good, while the bulk of the developer-to-player conversation is Japanese-to-Japanese on Japanese websites, or Japanese conventions, or Japanese magezines.... The German interview was merely the bone the rest of us "foreigners" have to chew on...
This is a reply from western game media about how t the mistranslations happend and how the lack of communications from Japan dev team was reaching Japanese players but not being released to English players forcing them to have to translate from Japanese sites and interviews, rather then having a english release of the new content being released to japanese players. 8/26
Title of story: Tanaka's Twitter Sent the Wrong Message
This pretty much covers the whole surplus system and hope this clears up all confussion about it.
** INFORMATION ALERT **** ***** INFORMATION ALERT ***** **** INFORMATION ALERT**
Hah! Japanese people are the most xenophobic you'll ever meet! They aren't just favoring Jp players, they downright prefer them! "Foreigner's" are just an after thought for profit.
Not to mention the huge ego of the company, which designed hit RPG video games and defined the genre of video game for the past 20 years without consulting the NA or EU markets. They merely translated it, patented it, sold it, made extra money just doing whatever they wanted. Why should they listen to the NA and EU market now? They could make a bestselling videogame with the American Flag burning on the cover and STILL have that game become a "Classic console RPG."
They only feign interest in our "foreign" opinions to make us feel good, while the bulk of the developer-to-player conversation is Japanese-to-Japanese on Japanese websites, or Japanese conventions, or Japanese magezines.... The German interview was merely the bone the rest of us "foreigners" have to chew on...
/end of SE rant
Of course they seem to favor their own country, it's much easier to communicate and gauge responses amongst themselves.
It's only natural that a Japanese company makes games oriented towards themselves. Likewise, American games are tested, sold, and simply translated to foreign countries in much the same way.
However I think SE has done an okay job of listening to NA desires and complaints, they have made notable changes earlier in development/testing that most of the NA crowd called out on.
edit: I do agree though that their is always room for them to improve in communicating with the West.
Hah! Japanese people are the most xenophobic you'll ever meet! They aren't just favoring Jp players, they downright prefer them! "Foreigner's" are just an after thought for profit.
Not to mention the huge ego of the company, which designed hit RPG video games and defined the genre of video game for the past 20 years without consulting the NA or EU markets. They merely translated it, patented it, sold it, made extra money just doing whatever they wanted. Why should they listen to the NA and EU market now? They could make a bestselling videogame with the American Flag burning on the cover and STILL have that game become a "Classic console RPG."
They only feign interest in our "foreign" opinions to make us feel good, while the bulk of the developer-to-player conversation is Japanese-to-Japanese on Japanese websites, or Japanese conventions, or Japanese magezines.... The German interview was merely the bone the rest of us "foreigners" have to chew on...
/end of SE rant
Lol. Eh... sorry, mate, but I could've replaced every time that 'Japanese' was used with 'American' and your statement would have been equally true, maybe even more
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
While I still plan to play, I don't see how this system allows for more "freedom", forced diversity yes (maybe everyone will praise the system for that fact months later). This system has less freedom, because it attempts to sway you to play something else after so long. I agree that many new casuals will drop this game and the whole surplus thing will be for not.
Really, I think the biggest issue that I am surprised isn't being talked about is the fact that the game doesn't seem nearly as group centric, good and bad things could come of this but I enjoyed FFXIs community, thats really what kept the game going and less grouping SE stands a real chance at loosing that in this game. Whatever, 4-6 months from now we will all see.
there adjusting it to make it mroe group centric ins ome areas but soloable if you want
When people are saying that it allows more freedom, they aren't speaking directly to the limitation.
We are saying that this ridiculous mentality of getting to the cap as fast as humanly possible is limiting yourself to the rest of the game. Once you hit surplus, yes you are FORCED to experience other areas of the game. But that "frees" you up from having to worry about rushing to the cap.
It gives you the freedom, or should I say MAKES you experience the freedoms that we take for granted in all other games without this limiting factor. It relieves you of having to worry about beating everyone else to the cap and allows you to slow down, take a deep breath and enjoy the game through other venues, which I personally think is very cool. I will probably be playing a ton and I have no gripes with this system.
I think once everyone tries it out and realizes the importance of utilizing other classes, notice that it's a whole lot easier to find groups, see that the Bazaar system works better considering people are around your level and wanting to buy, and in the end people will realize that this is a very unique game that set itself apart from its competition.
Anyone who is complaining about the surplus should simply pack up their bags and head home, since it's existence is the result of the armory system, and the armory system is a core element to FFXIV. Unless they change their goals and or the entire game itself, the surplus is going to stay where it is.
This armory and surplus system isn't very unique at all, an idea I am sure many have come across before, but have simply avoided since it tends to set a great deal of limitations and basically, is completely unnecesarry in a number of regards.
People enjoyed FFXI, so why mess around too much? Simply tweak and prod to maximise full potential. This is what i am getting from this system anyways.
They had to put a cap on something, somehow in order to keep players are a fairly evenly set progression, so why not start with exp. Seems a fairly logical deciison to me based on everything else anyways.
Exactly Cerocks. It is simply a rest system, but where each class has it's own rest value. You can almost think of it as the known rest system but where each class is a different character in other systems.
Uh? No, it isnt. Rest systems don't decrease your EXP gain to ZERO when the bonus wears off... which is exactly what this does. Its a gradual decline to 0 after you break their designated threshold.. quit trying to put a positive spin on an obviously awful mechanic.
Comments
You are obviously in the wrong forum with your well reasoned and well written post. These forums are for people who QQ without thought.
/kidding.
Seriously, even though very few have even thought about the implications of the system, and fewer still have tried it - there is nothing but flames. Personally, I think it is a very nice concept and Seriously doubt it will ever limit my play style. In fact I would go so far to say as it will not be noticed by 90% of the population. Yes this is a rough guess, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I hope SQE sticks to their guns on this one so we can have a chance to try something different.
Oh yeah, and nice analysis rather than knee jerk /emo nerdrage. Refreshing post for a change.
At this stage of the game , ill try and point out how it works, but is to early to say what is most effective.
The first i noticed when i got into my role is that no class have a designed role at all.All the classes are hybrids at start point.With a few exceptions.There is no main nuker(blm), tank healer or dps class.If you whant the classes to work that way you have to take the skills from diferent classes and make your own build of the roll you do whant to play.The good thin about the system is you can change the skills you already learned anytime as long as your not in combat.
So lets put an example.
I make a glady, i level up conjurer to take the healing skills,and marauder to take defensive skills. I also level lancer an archer to adquire the dps skills.
If the party requires a tank i put my build of healing defensive skills.
If i whant to dps , i put the skills from lancer and archer.
If i whant a tank that holds agro i make a mix of all the skills i have to balance out defence healing and dps.
The same aplys to mage classes, you have conjurer, is a blend of healer and nuker in 1 class.You would chooce the skills that works better at what you whant to do.
Also lets take note that we have "TRAITS" as well.They arent learned automaticly. They are bought with somethin you earn doing guild levels, and they are 2 types.
1-- normal job traits.
2-- stats converse traits.
Lets put an example, if i whant to change from gladi to healer, and i have all my stats on melle side,and you can only change an X ammount of stats per X time, there are a lot of traits that exchange melee stats for mage stats, and viceverse so you can have a decent mage build even if ur build is on melee.example.
VIT-10 INT +10
DEX+10 MND -10
and so on.
Also many job traits can be used in other classes to enforce them to make the build you like.They have a diferent Count/skill deposit so the ammount of traits you can have is counted separated from you skills.
Is really a very complex system and will take ages to master.I hope you get somehow an idea of how the system works.
edit; with a class system as complex as this i dont quite understand why people still bitching at surplus, theres just no point to lv just 1 single class, the system isnt designed that way, even without surplus exp. Honestly it just blows my mind away.
Just a quick question to everyone..... does anyone else, besides me, kind of like the system? I don't want to get left behind, I want to experience all the other classes and I feel that with the surplus system, I can take my time enjoying the game and not worry about not finding groups or getting left in the dust. I understand why hardcore players might mind, but I personally like the system, anyone with me....anyone?
I am, not so much worried about being left behind or finding groups, but I think it will work better than the AION system of control that has a lvl/xp curve that shoots into orbit once you get mid range. From what I can see on this one its a pretty steady progression spread out over the entire range, at least thats the impression I get.
But yeah, I like what I see on it so far personally, as long as they maintain it along the way. Monitor its effect on the player base and adjust as needed so it neither hinders too much or rewards too much in either direction.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I tend to play mmorpgs a lot (not lately though, but that's a diff story) but whether you play a lot or a little, this will indeed make the game more fun. SE is not going to take it out, I can bet you. Reason being is that you can't get the most out of the multiclass thing if there is no reason to change your class. I sure wouldn't, I'd stick with one class all the way to max level. That would suck. Period. If you haven't played beta, then you don't probably get it.
Bleh, I understand it completely and STILL hate it.
I'll try the game of course and see for myself. But they have only painted a more horrible monster by explaining it out.
PS: How can their PR team be so horrible!?
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
exactly - which is why they won't see a penny of my money
which i'm actually saddened about
A mechanic that allows me to try other classes and not be penalized is a good thing. Otherwise people would play the game like WoW and only try other classes once they get to max level. This allows people to explore and not constantly focusing on leveling. People see it as limiting when it's adding more freedom to the game.
My biggest concern is the fact that it is time-based, leading to the regrettable situation where you will miss out on exp depending on which days of the week you participate in certain activities on certain classes. Since that has been partially cleared up by the statement that your time at 100% drains as a function of exp gained and not time spent, my only other big concern is the fact that the experience rate drops to zero rather than tapering off at 20% or so. I can't see what the justification for that could be.
While I still plan to play, I don't see how this system allows for more "freedom", forced diversity yes (maybe everyone will praise the system for that fact months later). This system has less freedom, because it attempts to sway you to play something else after so long. I agree that many new casuals will drop this game and the whole surplus thing will be for not.
Really, I think the biggest issue that I am surprised isn't being talked about is the fact that the game doesn't seem nearly as group centric, good and bad things could come of this but I enjoyed FFXIs community, thats really what kept the game going and less grouping SE stands a real chance at loosing that in this game. Whatever, 4-6 months from now we will all see.
You may have noticed by all the shouting that people are obsessed with getting to 'Max Level' for whatever reason.
The system allows for Freedom, because once you reach your "Surplus" you are now free to level up other classes and round out your character without obsessing about 'Max Level' Remember, this game focuses on multiclass synergy and not being locked into one role.
Obviously this system is not going to be for everyone, but I bet that more than a few people would like it if they gave it a shot.
Forcing someone to do something is not freedom.
No one is forcing you to do anything.
Not even play the game.
...
That is patently silly. Apply this argument anywhere else and look how foolish it is: "We've decided to allow more freedom for women by taking away their right to vote, thus freeing them up to think about other things besides obsessing over who gets elected."
Everyone can change classes as much as they want. The surplus system doesn't make that possible. It's already possible. Even if it is good for someone to play multiple classes (and therefore good for the game to reward people for playing multiple classes), don't try to play that off a limitation as freedom. I do agree that every game needs rules and limitations and that the games can be vastly improved by them, but I can make that arguement without saying that limitations are freedom.
Your comparison to voting is pretty much non sequitur.
As to your other comment, which does apply, I did not argue that there was no limitation. Of course it is a limitation - as are all game rules. That does not mean that a limitation can not cause (or allow for) freedom in other areas.
That was the point. He did it on purpose.
I say it creates more freedom since it frees a lot of us mmorpg-ers from that constant drive to level. Sure, without surplus you could still change classes, but what if half your guild sticks to one class and gets high level, and the rest actually utilize the multiclass system, they wouldn't be able to group. At least with surplus, the range won't be that extreme. Those that were trying to level up multiple classes would probably end up saying "Screw it, I'll just stick with one class so I can mindlessly chase after max level"...limiting freedom :P
The problem as well is when gamers rush to max level, they get bored and have a "now what?" feeling, then end up saying this game sucks and they quit. With surplus, players will advance "horizontally" as well as vertically so even when they hit max level, they still will feel like they put something into their characters and stick around. It might be quite smart as far as player retention is concerned.
I think that sums it up.
Hah! Japanese people are the most xenophobic you'll ever meet! They aren't just favoring Jp players, they downright prefer them! "Foreigner's" are just an after thought for profit.
Not to mention the huge ego of the company, which designed hit RPG video games and defined the genre of video game for the past 20 years without consulting the NA or EU markets. They merely translated it, patented it, sold it, made extra money just doing whatever they wanted. Why should they listen to the NA and EU market now? They could make a bestselling videogame with the American Flag burning on the cover and STILL have that game become a "Classic console RPG."
They only feign interest in our "foreign" opinions to make us feel good, while the bulk of the developer-to-player conversation is Japanese-to-Japanese on Japanese websites, or Japanese conventions, or Japanese magezines.... The German interview was merely the bone the rest of us "foreigners" have to chew on...
/end of SE rant
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
Of course they seem to favor their own country, it's much easier to communicate and gauge responses amongst themselves.
It's only natural that a Japanese company makes games oriented towards themselves. Likewise, American games are tested, sold, and simply translated to foreign countries in much the same way.
However I think SE has done an okay job of listening to NA desires and complaints, they have made notable changes earlier in development/testing that most of the NA crowd called out on.
edit: I do agree though that their is always room for them to improve in communicating with the West.
Lol. Eh... sorry, mate, but I could've replaced every time that 'Japanese' was used with 'American' and your statement would have been equally true, maybe even more
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
there adjusting it to make it mroe group centric ins ome areas but soloable if you want
When people are saying that it allows more freedom, they aren't speaking directly to the limitation.
We are saying that this ridiculous mentality of getting to the cap as fast as humanly possible is limiting yourself to the rest of the game. Once you hit surplus, yes you are FORCED to experience other areas of the game. But that "frees" you up from having to worry about rushing to the cap.
It gives you the freedom, or should I say MAKES you experience the freedoms that we take for granted in all other games without this limiting factor. It relieves you of having to worry about beating everyone else to the cap and allows you to slow down, take a deep breath and enjoy the game through other venues, which I personally think is very cool. I will probably be playing a ton and I have no gripes with this system.
I think once everyone tries it out and realizes the importance of utilizing other classes, notice that it's a whole lot easier to find groups, see that the Bazaar system works better considering people are around your level and wanting to buy, and in the end people will realize that this is a very unique game that set itself apart from its competition.
Anyone who is complaining about the surplus should simply pack up their bags and head home, since it's existence is the result of the armory system, and the armory system is a core element to FFXIV. Unless they change their goals and or the entire game itself, the surplus is going to stay where it is.
This armory and surplus system isn't very unique at all, an idea I am sure many have come across before, but have simply avoided since it tends to set a great deal of limitations and basically, is completely unnecesarry in a number of regards.
People enjoyed FFXI, so why mess around too much? Simply tweak and prod to maximise full potential. This is what i am getting from this system anyways.
They had to put a cap on something, somehow in order to keep players are a fairly evenly set progression, so why not start with exp. Seems a fairly logical deciison to me based on everything else anyways.
Uh? No, it isnt. Rest systems don't decrease your EXP gain to ZERO when the bonus wears off... which is exactly what this does. Its a gradual decline to 0 after you break their designated threshold.. quit trying to put a positive spin on an obviously awful mechanic.