Hi everyone, I really need your help here even if it is a bit off-topic, I think?
Anyway....
I have not been playing LOTRO before, so I don't have a account or anything. I will start playing now on the "release" but I got some questions:
I want to play a Rune Keeper at the beggining and if I understand right, you need to pay for this class or be a VIP? What should I do?
1. Buy MoM and activate it on 10 September (or does it work with any expansion to get the Rune Keeper, if so, which one should I take?
2. Buy the FIRST game on CD and subscribe before the "release" so I will get VIP automaticy (because I get 30 days as a subscriber = VIP after "release") on 10 September and be able to make a Rune Keeper (because the class require VIP, and not only MoM on 10 September)?
3. Just start subscribe on 10 September and buy the expansions later when I need them. MoM in 50 and SoM in 60? Because SoA is not a expansion, only the "game", which is free on 10 September...so you don't have to buy it? I will buy the expansions sooner or later. I just wonder WHEN I should get them and if they got an effect on Rune Keeper?
Can someone explain a "strategy" for me, to be able to play a Rune Keeper at release as cheap as possible and not lose him later?. Because even if I don't play Rune Keeper, I will be a VIP player from lvl 20 even what charr I choose.
I know exactly how I should do if I take a "normal" character, but I want to be a Rune Keeper, so I am really confused about how I should do. If you get a better alternative then those 3, please tell me.
Sorry for my bad english, not so easy to explain how I mean...but I hope you will understand it anyway. Really nice if you can explain what is best for me and how I should do!
Thanks
PS: Can you still buy Lifetime Sub or did they remove it?
You dont get Rune keeper for just being VIP ,you still need to get Mines of Moria or by it seperatly. If you want to play RK then buy it and then play free for awhile and then decide if you want to go VIP and later get the expansions. You dont need to buy SoA it will just give you 1 month of VIP.
You can still get lifetime sub for european servers but not for the US servers but maybe they will bring it back.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Bottom line is this is a really big change to the game...... it could turn out to be ok....or it could turn out to be utter crap. Smartest thing to do is keep your eyes open and judge for yourself as things.
Personaly, I see lots of reasonds to be be worried/P.O.'d.... but who knows, I could be pleasantly surprised.
One thing for sure..... "The everything will be fine, nothing will change for you." .... is the mantra coming straight out of Turbine's Marketing Dept. They are paid to tell you that regardless of whether it's true or not.
Don't take that at face value...... keep your eyes open as to the details of what happens as things progress.
This is NOT the same Turbine of AC days or even the opening days of Shadows of Angmar.... it's different management and different ownership.... those things have a big effect on a company.
Here is the big giant difference between your speculation and mine.
I have been playing the beta for months. I’m a lifer, nothing WILL change for me. I just now have the option to use the cash shop, and having used it, seen it, watched what they have adjusted. I see nothing wrong with its contents or pricing, especially when you consider how much game time and content a free users will consume before considering or being forced (because they have run out of free content) to use the shop.
Like I said, many in this thread, and on this site are purely speaking from theory, I’m not.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Hi everyone, I really need your help here even if it is a bit off-topic, I think?
Anyway....
I have not been playing LOTRO before, so I don't have a account or anything. I will start playing now on the "release" but I got some questions:
I want to play a Rune Keeper at the beggining and if I understand right, you need to pay for this class or be a VIP? What should I do?
1. Buy MoM and activate it on 10 September (or does it work with any expansion to get the Rune Keeper, if so, which one should I take?
2. Buy the FIRST game on CD and subscribe before the "release" so I will get VIP automaticy (because I get 30 days as a subscriber = VIP after "release") on 10 September and be able to make a Rune Keeper (because the class require VIP, and not only MoM on 10 September)?
3. Just start subscribe on 10 September and buy the expansions later when I need them. MoM in 50 and SoM in 60? Because SoA is not a expansion, only the "game", which is free on 10 September...so you don't have to buy it? I will buy the expansions sooner or later. I just wonder WHEN I should get them and if they got an effect on Rune Keeper?
Can someone explain a "strategy" for me, to be able to play a Rune Keeper at release as cheap as possible and not lose him later?. Because even if I don't play Rune Keeper, I will be a VIP player from lvl 20 even what charr I choose.
I know exactly how I should do if I take a "normal" character, but I want to be a Rune Keeper, so I am really confused about how I should do. If you get a better alternative then those 3, please tell me.
Sorry for my bad english, not so easy to explain how I mean...but I hope you will understand it anyway. Really nice if you can explain what is best for me and how I should do!
Thanks
PS: Can you still buy Lifetime Sub or did they remove it?
You dont get Rune keeper for just being VIP ,you still need to get Mines of Moria or by it seperatly. If you want to play RK then buy it and then play free for awhile and then decide if you want to go VIP and later get the expansions. You dont need to buy SoA it will just give you 1 month of VIP.
You can still get lifetime sub for european servers but not for the US servers but maybe they will bring it back.
Ok, thanks for the info!
" But if you buy an expansion you get 30 days playedtime (in MoM or as a VIP?), some TPs and premium status".
Does it mean that I just unlock things, or get VIP ASLO? So do I have to subscibe also (I want to subscribe) to get VIP?
Bottom line is this is a really big change to the game...... it could turn out to be ok....or it could turn out to be utter crap. Smartest thing to do is keep your eyes open and judge for yourself as things.
Personaly, I see lots of reasonds to be be worried/P.O.'d.... but who knows, I could be pleasantly surprised.
One thing for sure..... "The everything will be fine, nothing will change for you." .... is the mantra coming straight out of Turbine's Marketing Dept. They are paid to tell you that regardless of whether it's true or not.
Don't take that at face value...... keep your eyes open as to the details of what happens as things progress.
This is NOT the same Turbine of AC days or even the opening days of Shadows of Angmar.... it's different management and different ownership.... those things have a big effect on a company.
Here is the big giant difference between your speculation and mine.
I have been playing the beta for months. I’m a lifer, nothing WILL change for me. I just now have the option to use the cash shop, and having used it, seen it, watched what they have adjusted. I see nothing wrong with its contents or pricing, especially when you consider how much game time and content a free users will consume before considering or being forced (because they have run out of free content) to use the shop.
Like I said, many in this thread, and on this site are purely speaking from theory, I’m not.
Well, if you see nothing wrong with the items for sale in the cash shop, all I can say is your subjective opinion is very cleary far different then mine. I'll simply note, that I am not the only active player who has raised objections to the potions and tomes for sale there.
However, I'll state that the idea that you can tell all that much about the long term effects on the game from beta is (IMO) simply naive at best. Even if the company is being entirely up-front about thier intentions.....and gee a company would never willfully mislead subscribers by gradualy increasing costs and fee's for services and other unpleasant changes to reduce the impact and avoid an uproar...no a company would never willfully hold such things back from it's beta or it's initial introduction of services... that wouldn't make sense.
However, even assuming the best motivations by Turbine....the degree to which you can predict changes to a very complex system (such as an MMO) from a beta experience is limited at best. That is true even for entirely technical things....let alone stuff like social or community effects. The bottom line is that both user populations and user behavior tend to be very different in Beta's then when the application goes live. Alot of things really don't start to show up until after the Application has been "in the wild"....and even then it often can be month's before you start to notice them. MMO's are very much the example of emergent systems.... they are changing all the time. That's simply the way it is.
You can deny it all you like....but really won't have a good feel for what F2P means for the game until 6-12 months AFTER it is realised. Then we'll be able to get some definate answers.....anything before then is just wishfull thinking or marketing spin.... but by all means feel free to be as confident as you like. Just like the folks over on the STO board who proclaimed it would be the next WOW before launch.
However, I'll state that the idea that you can tell all that much about the long term effects on the game from beta is (IMO) simply naive at best.
More or less naive then basing all responses on theory and other users posts of missinfromation?.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
But if i were to catagorize your posts, its all doom and gloom and snark based on well I dunno, its clear you haven't played the beta.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
LOL, hilarious negative commentary backed by some extremely infantile forms of logic.
I believe that I am the last of those who were granted a lifetime membership (last it was available). I barely squeezed in after calling account support, so it hasn't been that long ago that I paid the piper to have a lifetime membership . . . and even if I would have signed up AFTER the game had gone F2P I would have still paid for the lifetime membership; and I don't even think that LOTRO is the best MMORPG I've ever played (though it's certainly a serious contender for a 'favorites' spot).
The bottom line is that although game will be free to play NOT ALL of the content will be free AND the non-free content is well-worth the membership fee. Personally, when I play a game I want to have unrestricted access to just about all of the content, and the lifetime membership and the monthly subscription gives me that and plenty of it (I have two accounts, one lifetime and one monthly subscription). Paid subs will also provide points for things from the online store, which I've never used in any game before, but since it's basically standard for me now . . . I'll be sure to check things out!
Pros . . .
1. More Players to trade, group, and otherwise interact with on a regular basis
2. More Content (one would naturally assume, after all Turbine's DDO certainly has more)
3. Game Longevity/Security
4. Online Store for additional goodies
5. Same great game that can only get better (more money/players = better design and support)
Cons
1. More people means more idiots, whiners and beggars who try to be choosers
2. Some of the content that was paid for will now be free (though certainly not the majority)
3. Online store might provide slight advantages to those with more money to spend at will
For me, the pros greatly outweigh the cons and I am proud of Turbine for turning their game into something that not only everyone can enjoy but also something that provides a host of benefits for those who want more out of Middle Earth. Kudos Turbine! (now please re-vamp and re-release AC2, thanks)
However, I'll state that the idea that you can tell all that much about the long term effects on the game from beta is (IMO) simply naive at best.
More or less naive then basing all responses on theory and other users posts of missinfromation?.
What "theory and missinformation"
My responses have pretty much boiled down to:
1) Wait and see what happens for yourself.
2) Keep your eyes open. Be skeptical and don't take anything presented or said at face value until you see it in action for yourself.
3) It's going to take some time for the full ramifications of a change this big to become apparent.
Mind telling me which one of those is bad advice for a consumer in this market?
I think your concerns are 100% valid and none of us can tell how it will turn out (just like we dont know how the game would turn out if it DIDNT add F2P).
I am very positive about the change and am basing it on 2 thing:
1. How Turbine have handled the beta and responded to feedback. (which I have played in)
2. How they have been running DDO for the last year which I also play.
So Im not really worried that they are going to screw it up. Are there going to be things I dont like? Definetly! There are tons of things I dislike in the game already. But I still think that this is going to be for the best of the game.
There are a alot of posters here who do nothing but to spread missinformation a using their own theories and posting them as facts just to create confusion, but I dont think anyone think you are one of them.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
LOL, hilarious negative commentary backed by some extremely infantile forms of logic.
I believe that I am the last of those who were granted a lifetime membership (last it was available). I barely squeezed in after calling account support, so it hasn't been that long ago that I paid the piper to have a lifetime membership . . . and even if I would have signed up AFTER the game had gone F2P I would have still paid for the lifetime membership; and I don't even think that LOTRO is the best MMORPG I've ever played (though it's certainly a serious contender for a 'favorites' spot).
The bottom line is that although game will be free to play NOT ALL of the content will be free AND the non-free content is well-worth the membership fee. Personally, when I play a game I want to have unrestricted access to just about all of the content, and the lifetime membership and the monthly subscription gives me that and plenty of it (I have two accounts, one lifetime and one monthly subscription). Paid subs will also provide points for things from the online store, which I've never used in any game before, but since it's basically standard for me now . . . I'll be sure to check things out!
Pros . . .
1. More Players to trade, group, and otherwise interact with on a regular basis
2. More Content (one would naturally assume, after all Turbine's DDO certainly has more)
3. Game Longevity/Security
4. Online Store for additional goodies
5. Same great game that can only get better (more money/players = better design and support)
Cons
1. More people means more idiots, whiners and beggars who try to be choosers
2. Some of the content that was paid for will now be free (though certainly not the majority)
3. Online store might provide slight advantages to those with more money to spend at will
For me, the pros greatly outweigh the cons and I am proud of Turbine for turning their game into something that not only everyone can enjoy but also something that provides a host of benefits for those who want more out of Middle Earth. Kudos Turbine! (now please re-vamp and re-release AC2, thanks)
That's not the only way things CAN go down...not saying they WONT....just saying there are alot of pitfalls that the F2P model brings...that don't exist in the sub model. MAYBE Turbine will have the discipline to avoid those pitfalls...but I'm certainly not going to be placing any bets on it.
More players do not NECCASSRLY equal more income, they equal more players. Players/Users are a COST center for a service, not a proffit center. Each user costs the service a certain amount of money to support. It only when a service finds a way to "monetize" that user (i.e. turn them into a customer, make a sale, get an advertiser to pay to put adds in front of them, etc). If a service can't successfully do that then more users simply means it goes broke quicker. There are a ton of services in bankruptcy court that had alot of users but simply weren't able to find a way to "monetize" them. That's just the way that model works.
Because of the costs involved in supporting users and because of the POTENTIAL for proffit that investers and owners see when they look at the size of the user base there is IMMENSE pressure on the business to try to find as many ways to monetize those users as possible, and to monetize them to the maximum degree possible. The ways that a business goes about this are not always so nice for a player. Businesses in this mode are forced to constantly walk a tight rope between finding ways to manipulate a user into spending money (or otherwise monetize them) and risk driving them away by making such attempts interfere with thier enjoyment of the service too much. It takes ALOT of discipline and wisdom for designers and management to not step over that line....and step over it badly...... and there is a constant pressure from ownership to push the envelope right up until the bursting point. All service oriented businesses face these sort of issues but with F2P/RMT models the equation is alot trickier because the return per user is such a variable.
Even when a business is successfull in "monetizing" it's users, that does not translate into "better design/support", it translates into more income for the company. It's upto the owners of the company to determine what to do with that proffit. Whether to reinvest it in the company, or pocket it, or use it as capital to fund some other project. Another key factor to look at is your "AVG INCOME PER USER". This factor is critical, because it determines how much you CAN afford to spend to support each user. If your "AVG INCOME PER USER" goes up because you've found a way to get the average user to spend more money, great... you CAN afford to spend more to support those users (upto Ownership whether they'll actualy LET you do it, but at least you know you COULD do it). However, if your "AVERAGE INCOME PER USER" goes down.... because now you've got a percentage of users using your service for free...or spending less per month then the average sub used to... then you've got to find a way to REDUCE your costs per user in order to maintain proffit. Unless you can find a way to increase your efficiency, that basicaly means that you are going to be providing the average user a LESSER level of service then they recieved before..... and of course you've got to find a way to do this (optimaly) without letting the user KNOW that your doing it. Now, you can try to apply some sort of gradiant of services to different user types... so that you provide a higher level of service to users who spend more... but it's tough to get that granular in many types of services...and it's tough to track that....and of course it means your fragmenting your user base into have's and have nots...which can also cause community issues.
There are other big pitfalls to the model in the design aspects. Under the subscription based model, you are pretty much just designing so that the users find value (have fun) in your service and return...and maybe tell thier freinds. The F2P model adds another layer into that... in that you have to design to control/influence/manipulate the users behavior WITHIN your service so that they engage in SPENDING activities.... If you don't do that, then you're going to go broke, because you don't make any money when the users uses your service (in fact it costs you).... you only make money when they engage in SPENDING activities. If the basic service is too good without spending, then users won't do that...and you won't make any money..... and owners and management will be constantly pressuring you to push that into your design.
In practical terms, if it costs you 100 man/hours to design a new area for users to explore.....even if you charge $10 in the store to acess that new area.... but you can simply reskin some piece of loot in the store for 1 man/hour worth of time and sell it for $5... guess what management is going to be pushing you to do? Worse yet, if management looks and sees that + EXP potions are a good seller in the store because people want to shortcut thier grind to level..... guess what management is going to want you to do in order to spur even more sales of those items? Yes, if management is saavy, they'll understand that you can only push that so far before users get frustrated and quit....but they'll definately be trying to push the envelope as close as they can get before that happens. That's very different from how the same situation would go down in a Sub model with no RMT.... in that same situation under the Sub only model, management would be asking you if you should REDUCE (not increase) the grind as it's not fun for users and may be causing some to drop thier subs. There would be no incentive for them to increase grind, as they don't really care if users are using + EXP potions UNLESS they are making a proffit from selling them.
Really it's the difference between a Resort Hotel that makes a proffit off of booking thier rooms....and just wants customers to come back and book with them again...and a Casino which compsit's rooms and makes it's money off of having people gamble.
I'm not saying that Turbine, NECCESARLY, will fall prey to the pitfalls under the new model....but it's going to take ALOT of discipline and wisdom for them to avoid them....and believe me there will be alot of temptation for them to do otherwise. Furthermore Turbine IS under new management and ownership... that can change a companies behavior alot.
MAYBE they sky isn't going to come crashing down.....but it REALLY behooves players to be aware of these things and keep an eye out for them. That isn't infintile logic or tin hat conspiracy theories.... anyone who has actualy worked for a business (in MMO's or other verticals) that even remotely uses that style model simply knows that this IS the reality of how it works. How the individual company handles those realities is the key factor.
All of this knee-jerk reaction to going f2p. I am given to wonder about these folks jumping ship because of f2p. I wonder if any of them did the f2p beta or talked to folks that did do beta, after it went to open beta. Did any of them read what was posted about it?
I have to laugh at the boneheads that are quitting LOTRO simply because it is going f2p. If these bozos did the math, they would realise that after the first 2 years of playing, the lifetime membership has already paid for itself.
And let us not forget that, as VIP members, they are getting a bunch of stuff that other folks that are just coming into the game are not.
In other words, the fact that they have a lifetime subscription and are already in the game, the pluses outweigh the minuses.
I will keep playing LOTRO, even as a f2p game. My lifetime membership payed for itself more than a year ago, so I have gotten more than my money's worth so f2p is not a significant change for me, at this point.
It isn't the preacher that gives you freedom of religion, it is the soldiers that gave some or all to protect that freedom.
All of this knee-jerk reaction to going f2p. I am given to wonder about these folks jumping ship because of f2p. I wonder if any of them did the f2p beta or talked to folks that did do beta, after it went to open beta. Did any of them read what was posted about it?
I have to laugh at the boneheads that are quitting LOTRO simply because it is going f2p. If these bozos did the math, they would realise that after the first 2 years of playing, the lifetime membership has already paid for itself.
And let us not forget that, as VIP members, they are getting a bunch of stuff that other folks that are just coming into the game are not.
In other words, the fact that they have a lifetime subscription and are already in the game, the pluses outweigh the minuses.
I will keep playing LOTRO, even as a f2p game. My lifetime membership payed for itself more than a year ago, so I have gotten more than my money's worth so f2p is not a significant change for me, at this point.
Ya can call me jerk, but I haven't seen before ANY F2P game that would be good, where there is so or so amounts of B4W components, which isn't allowed cheating with wallet. Ya have money, ya have rights - so for me ALL F2P = crap. End.
And I left even before F2P announce because that wasn't LOTRO I started anymore. That wasn't Tolkien Legacy, that was dumbdowned boring hindu-dev'ed trying-to-look-like-tolkien average fantasy MMO. So righteously in row with other thousands of crap F2P MMOs.
Comments
You dont get Rune keeper for just being VIP ,you still need to get Mines of Moria or by it seperatly. If you want to play RK then buy it and then play free for awhile and then decide if you want to go VIP and later get the expansions. You dont need to buy SoA it will just give you 1 month of VIP.
You can still get lifetime sub for european servers but not for the US servers but maybe they will bring it back.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Here is the big giant difference between your speculation and mine.
I have been playing the beta for months. I’m a lifer, nothing WILL change for me. I just now have the option to use the cash shop, and having used it, seen it, watched what they have adjusted. I see nothing wrong with its contents or pricing, especially when you consider how much game time and content a free users will consume before considering or being forced (because they have run out of free content) to use the shop.
Like I said, many in this thread, and on this site are purely speaking from theory, I’m not.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Ok, thanks for the info!
" But if you buy an expansion you get 30 days playedtime (in MoM or as a VIP?), some TPs and premium status".
Does it mean that I just unlock things, or get VIP ASLO? So do I have to subscibe also (I want to subscribe) to get VIP?
Thanks!
Well, if you see nothing wrong with the items for sale in the cash shop, all I can say is your subjective opinion is very cleary far different then mine. I'll simply note, that I am not the only active player who has raised objections to the potions and tomes for sale there.
However, I'll state that the idea that you can tell all that much about the long term effects on the game from beta is (IMO) simply naive at best. Even if the company is being entirely up-front about thier intentions.....and gee a company would never willfully mislead subscribers by gradualy increasing costs and fee's for services and other unpleasant changes to reduce the impact and avoid an uproar...no a company would never willfully hold such things back from it's beta or it's initial introduction of services... that wouldn't make sense.
However, even assuming the best motivations by Turbine....the degree to which you can predict changes to a very complex system (such as an MMO) from a beta experience is limited at best. That is true even for entirely technical things....let alone stuff like social or community effects. The bottom line is that both user populations and user behavior tend to be very different in Beta's then when the application goes live. Alot of things really don't start to show up until after the Application has been "in the wild"....and even then it often can be month's before you start to notice them. MMO's are very much the example of emergent systems.... they are changing all the time. That's simply the way it is.
You can deny it all you like....but really won't have a good feel for what F2P means for the game until 6-12 months AFTER it is realised. Then we'll be able to get some definate answers.....anything before then is just wishfull thinking or marketing spin.... but by all means feel free to be as confident as you like. Just like the folks over on the STO board who proclaimed it would be the next WOW before launch.
More or less naive then basing all responses on theory and other users posts of missinfromation?.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
PM me your account name and pass pls
PM me your account name and pass pls
What "theory and missinformation"
My responses have pretty much boiled down to:
1) Wait and see what happens for yourself.
2) Keep your eyes open. Be skeptical and don't take anything presented or said at face value until you see it in action for yourself.
3) It's going to take some time for the full ramifications of a change this big to become apparent.
Mind telling me which one of those is bad advice for a consumer in this market?
Its not allways about you.
But if i were to catagorize your posts, its all doom and gloom and snark based on well I dunno, its clear you haven't played the beta.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
LOL, hilarious negative commentary backed by some extremely infantile forms of logic.
I believe that I am the last of those who were granted a lifetime membership (last it was available). I barely squeezed in after calling account support, so it hasn't been that long ago that I paid the piper to have a lifetime membership . . . and even if I would have signed up AFTER the game had gone F2P I would have still paid for the lifetime membership; and I don't even think that LOTRO is the best MMORPG I've ever played (though it's certainly a serious contender for a 'favorites' spot).
The bottom line is that although game will be free to play NOT ALL of the content will be free AND the non-free content is well-worth the membership fee. Personally, when I play a game I want to have unrestricted access to just about all of the content, and the lifetime membership and the monthly subscription gives me that and plenty of it (I have two accounts, one lifetime and one monthly subscription). Paid subs will also provide points for things from the online store, which I've never used in any game before, but since it's basically standard for me now . . . I'll be sure to check things out!
Pros . . .
1. More Players to trade, group, and otherwise interact with on a regular basis
2. More Content (one would naturally assume, after all Turbine's DDO certainly has more)
3. Game Longevity/Security
4. Online Store for additional goodies
5. Same great game that can only get better (more money/players = better design and support)
Cons
1. More people means more idiots, whiners and beggars who try to be choosers
2. Some of the content that was paid for will now be free (though certainly not the majority)
3. Online store might provide slight advantages to those with more money to spend at will
For me, the pros greatly outweigh the cons and I am proud of Turbine for turning their game into something that not only everyone can enjoy but also something that provides a host of benefits for those who want more out of Middle Earth. Kudos Turbine! (now please re-vamp and re-release AC2, thanks)
I think your concerns are 100% valid and none of us can tell how it will turn out (just like we dont know how the game would turn out if it DIDNT add F2P).
I am very positive about the change and am basing it on 2 thing:
1. How Turbine have handled the beta and responded to feedback. (which I have played in)
2. How they have been running DDO for the last year which I also play.
So Im not really worried that they are going to screw it up. Are there going to be things I dont like? Definetly! There are tons of things I dislike in the game already. But I still think that this is going to be for the best of the game.
There are a alot of posters here who do nothing but to spread missinformation a using their own theories and posting them as facts just to create confusion, but I dont think anyone think you are one of them.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
That's not the only way things CAN go down...not saying they WONT....just saying there are alot of pitfalls that the F2P model brings...that don't exist in the sub model. MAYBE Turbine will have the discipline to avoid those pitfalls...but I'm certainly not going to be placing any bets on it.
More players do not NECCASSRLY equal more income, they equal more players. Players/Users are a COST center for a service, not a proffit center. Each user costs the service a certain amount of money to support. It only when a service finds a way to "monetize" that user (i.e. turn them into a customer, make a sale, get an advertiser to pay to put adds in front of them, etc). If a service can't successfully do that then more users simply means it goes broke quicker. There are a ton of services in bankruptcy court that had alot of users but simply weren't able to find a way to "monetize" them. That's just the way that model works.
Because of the costs involved in supporting users and because of the POTENTIAL for proffit that investers and owners see when they look at the size of the user base there is IMMENSE pressure on the business to try to find as many ways to monetize those users as possible, and to monetize them to the maximum degree possible. The ways that a business goes about this are not always so nice for a player. Businesses in this mode are forced to constantly walk a tight rope between finding ways to manipulate a user into spending money (or otherwise monetize them) and risk driving them away by making such attempts interfere with thier enjoyment of the service too much. It takes ALOT of discipline and wisdom for designers and management to not step over that line....and step over it badly...... and there is a constant pressure from ownership to push the envelope right up until the bursting point. All service oriented businesses face these sort of issues but with F2P/RMT models the equation is alot trickier because the return per user is such a variable.
Even when a business is successfull in "monetizing" it's users, that does not translate into "better design/support", it translates into more income for the company. It's upto the owners of the company to determine what to do with that proffit. Whether to reinvest it in the company, or pocket it, or use it as capital to fund some other project. Another key factor to look at is your "AVG INCOME PER USER". This factor is critical, because it determines how much you CAN afford to spend to support each user. If your "AVG INCOME PER USER" goes up because you've found a way to get the average user to spend more money, great... you CAN afford to spend more to support those users (upto Ownership whether they'll actualy LET you do it, but at least you know you COULD do it). However, if your "AVERAGE INCOME PER USER" goes down.... because now you've got a percentage of users using your service for free...or spending less per month then the average sub used to... then you've got to find a way to REDUCE your costs per user in order to maintain proffit. Unless you can find a way to increase your efficiency, that basicaly means that you are going to be providing the average user a LESSER level of service then they recieved before..... and of course you've got to find a way to do this (optimaly) without letting the user KNOW that your doing it. Now, you can try to apply some sort of gradiant of services to different user types... so that you provide a higher level of service to users who spend more... but it's tough to get that granular in many types of services...and it's tough to track that....and of course it means your fragmenting your user base into have's and have nots...which can also cause community issues.
There are other big pitfalls to the model in the design aspects. Under the subscription based model, you are pretty much just designing so that the users find value (have fun) in your service and return...and maybe tell thier freinds. The F2P model adds another layer into that... in that you have to design to control/influence/manipulate the users behavior WITHIN your service so that they engage in SPENDING activities.... If you don't do that, then you're going to go broke, because you don't make any money when the users uses your service (in fact it costs you).... you only make money when they engage in SPENDING activities. If the basic service is too good without spending, then users won't do that...and you won't make any money..... and owners and management will be constantly pressuring you to push that into your design.
In practical terms, if it costs you 100 man/hours to design a new area for users to explore.....even if you charge $10 in the store to acess that new area.... but you can simply reskin some piece of loot in the store for 1 man/hour worth of time and sell it for $5... guess what management is going to be pushing you to do? Worse yet, if management looks and sees that + EXP potions are a good seller in the store because people want to shortcut thier grind to level..... guess what management is going to want you to do in order to spur even more sales of those items? Yes, if management is saavy, they'll understand that you can only push that so far before users get frustrated and quit....but they'll definately be trying to push the envelope as close as they can get before that happens. That's very different from how the same situation would go down in a Sub model with no RMT.... in that same situation under the Sub only model, management would be asking you if you should REDUCE (not increase) the grind as it's not fun for users and may be causing some to drop thier subs. There would be no incentive for them to increase grind, as they don't really care if users are using + EXP potions UNLESS they are making a proffit from selling them.
Really it's the difference between a Resort Hotel that makes a proffit off of booking thier rooms....and just wants customers to come back and book with them again...and a Casino which compsit's rooms and makes it's money off of having people gamble.
I'm not saying that Turbine, NECCESARLY, will fall prey to the pitfalls under the new model....but it's going to take ALOT of discipline and wisdom for them to avoid them....and believe me there will be alot of temptation for them to do otherwise. Furthermore Turbine IS under new management and ownership... that can change a companies behavior alot.
MAYBE they sky isn't going to come crashing down.....but it REALLY behooves players to be aware of these things and keep an eye out for them. That isn't infintile logic or tin hat conspiracy theories.... anyone who has actualy worked for a business (in MMO's or other verticals) that even remotely uses that style model simply knows that this IS the reality of how it works. How the individual company handles those realities is the key factor.
All of this knee-jerk reaction to going f2p. I am given to wonder about these folks jumping ship because of f2p. I wonder if any of them did the f2p beta or talked to folks that did do beta, after it went to open beta. Did any of them read what was posted about it?
I have to laugh at the boneheads that are quitting LOTRO simply because it is going f2p. If these bozos did the math, they would realise that after the first 2 years of playing, the lifetime membership has already paid for itself.
And let us not forget that, as VIP members, they are getting a bunch of stuff that other folks that are just coming into the game are not.
In other words, the fact that they have a lifetime subscription and are already in the game, the pluses outweigh the minuses.
I will keep playing LOTRO, even as a f2p game. My lifetime membership payed for itself more than a year ago, so I have gotten more than my money's worth so f2p is not a significant change for me, at this point.
It isn't the preacher that gives you freedom of religion, it is the soldiers that gave some or all to protect that freedom.
Ya can call me jerk, but I haven't seen before ANY F2P game that would be good, where there is so or so amounts of B4W components, which isn't allowed cheating with wallet. Ya have money, ya have rights - so for me ALL F2P = crap. End.
And I left even before F2P announce because that wasn't LOTRO I started anymore. That wasn't Tolkien Legacy, that was dumbdowned boring hindu-dev'ed trying-to-look-like-tolkien average fantasy MMO. So righteously in row with other thousands of crap F2P MMOs.
Based on Beta feedback, the Lone-lands quest pack was cut in half and the rep mounts where removed from the store.
I would say that they are listening...