Wizardry, can you create a thread expressly for FF14 reccomendations? You can basically copy and paste and change the wording a little. That way we can have it sticked for people who would like to express issues they have with the game and their ideas for how to improve it, because every 2nd or third thread is about it. So i think that'd be helpful.
We'll ask to have it sticked afterwards
That would change their whining into constructive criticism / feedback. They don't want that. Blasphemy.
Let's elaborate on this a little... for those of you that have played FF11 and do not want to play 14 what is the reason for it, why do you not like the game.
Anyway for those of you that have played FF11 and do no plan or just flat out do not like FF14... what is it that you do not like specifically.
These are a few things i liked about FF XI:
1. The classes felt really well tought out and they had personality to them. I mean at that time it was the only MMO available to me (from Europe) where i could play a Samurai-Class for example. That was a big draw for me. Secondly the way that class combinations worked was unique and motivating.
2. Group-Play meant something. No one could afford to be a total ass, slack off or be clueless about class-mechanics, because these people never made it past lv. 10.
3. The game developed group-grinding and chainpulling to an artform where a specific state of mind called "flow" could be easily achieved by a good team. There was a certain rush to chain-pulling which is hard to describe and something that i never experienced in this quality since.
What i didn't like:
1. The world felt a little bland, the same goes for the races. Up to then Offline-FFs where famous for over the top Characterdesign and imaginative steam-punk artdirection that they re-invented with each new interation. This was all completely absent from FF XI. They tried to play it safe by implementing their own take on the generic races you could find in every generic MMO or Fantasy RPG: Dwarves, Elves, some kind of hulking brute and of course humans. Boring.
2. Story-Quests where few and far between. When you finally reached another tidbid of story, you had long forgotten what led to this part of the story.
3. The economy was broken really fast. Prices went sky-high because of poorly thought out economy tools. At least there was an auction house, albeit, again, poorly implemented.
Now we have FF XIV and it's easy to see how all what i liked about the game was thrown out of the window, while the bad parts not only didn't get fixed but got even worse. There are STILL the same races. They couldn't even be arsed to come up with something new. Classes have been dumped down significantly. Instead of Dark Knights, Bards, Samurais or Ninja, you get "Archers", "generic Melee DD with a 2H-Weapon", "generic tank class with sword and board" and so on. And the list goes on and on. And i don't even care about bugs and technical issues.
Those are some good criticisms Chess. Im flabergasted(sp). I also was let down by similar things with ff14, expressly the races ARGH! and will we see a new one??? like ever?? They said no I believe.
However, I will still try the game for a few months because I am undecided. But is there no hope for you trying the free 30 days as well?
Chess can you make the "Reccomendations and Complaints" thread?
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
Let's elaborate on this a little... for those of you that have played FF11 and do not want to play 14 what is the reason for it, why do you not like the game.
Anyway for those of you that have played FF11 and do no plan or just flat out do not like FF14... what is it that you do not like specifically.
These are a few things i liked about FF XI:
1. The classes felt really well tought out and they had personality to them. I mean at that time it was the only MMO available to me (from Europe) where i could play a Samurai-Class for example. That was a big draw for me. Secondly the way that class combinations worked was unique and motivating.
2. Group-Play meant something. No one could afford to be a total ass, slack off or be clueless about class-mechanics, because these people never made it past lv. 10.
3. The game developed group-grinding and chainpulling to an artform where a specific state of mind called "flow" could be easily achieved by a good team. There was a certain rush to chain-pulling which is hard to describe and something that i never experienced in this quality since.
What i didn't like:
1. The world felt a little bland, the same goes for the races. Up to then Offline-FFs where famous for over the top Characterdesign and imaginative steam-punk artdirection that they re-invented with each new interation. This was all completely absent from FF XI. They tried to play it safe by implementing their own take on the generic races you could find in every generic MMO or Fantasy RPG: Dwarves, Elves, some kind of hulking brute and of course humans. Boring.
2. Story-Quests where few and far between. When you finally reached another tidbid of story, you had long forgotten what led to this part of the story.
3. The economy was broken really fast. Prices went sky-high because of poorly thought out economy tools. At least there was an auction house, albeit, again, poorly implemented.
Now we have FF XIV and it's easy to see how all what i liked about the game was thrown out of the window, while the bad parts not only didn't get fixed but got even worse. There are STILL the same races. They couldn't even be arsed to come up with something new. Classes have been dumped down significantly. Instead of Dark Knights, Bards, Samurais or Ninja, you get "Archers", "generic Melee DD with a 2H-Weapon", "generic tank class with sword and board" and so on. And the list goes on and on. And i don't even care about bugs and technical issues.
After reading this post, it seems that you and I aren't so different after all. The difference between you and I is that I still have faith in SE to deliver a great game that is similar to FFXI in many ways. None of us know what FFXIV will be like in a year, but I do know they have a good foundation going. FFXI ( before any expacs ) was fairly basic as well. All of the advanced jobs came with expansions.
For you, it may be best to wait it out. See what the game is like in a month or so, and see if it would interest you to play. For me, I want to be there at the start this time. I started late in FFXI, and don't want to miss the beginning of another great MMO.
After reading this post, it seems that you and I aren't so different after all. The difference between you and I is that I still have faith in SE to deliver a great game that is similar to FFXI in many ways. None of us know what FFXIV will be like in a year, but I do know they have a good foundation going. FFXI ( before any expacs ) was fairly basic as well. All of the advanced jobs came with expansions.
For you, it may be best to wait it out. See what the game is like in a month or so, and see if it would interest you to play. For me, I want to be there at the start this time. I started late in FFXI, and don't want to miss the beginning of another great MMO.
Yes exactly! Starting late in FF11 was the bane of my existence in that game. Although, I guess I mean starting again late was the bane of my existence. I played when it first came out for quite awhile but my parents stpped letting me use there cc :P I think I had been bad. lol
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
Those are some good criticisms Chess. Im flabergasted(sp). I also was let down by similar things with ff14, expressly the races ARGH! and will we see a new one??? like ever?? They said no I believe.
However, I will still try the game for a few months because I am undecided. But is there no hope for you trying the free 30 days as well?
I will try and buy it but certainly not now and not on PC. In my opinion the game is not ready for release and i can't shake the feeling that the PC-Release is just used to polish the product for PS3-Release while at the same time getting some cash-in. This is not a business-practice that should be supported in my opinion and even the japanese developers should be able to learn this lesson.
Those are some good criticisms Chess. Im flabergasted(sp). I also was let down by similar things with ff14, expressly the races ARGH! and will we see a new one??? like ever?? They said no I believe.
However, I will still try the game for a few months because I am undecided. But is there no hope for you trying the free 30 days as well?
I will try and buy it but certainly not now and not on PC. In my opinion the game is not ready for release and i can't shake the feeling that the PC-Release is just used to polish the product for PS3-Release while at the same time getting some cash-in. This is not a business-practice that should be supported in my opinion and even the japanese developers should be able to learn this lesson.
Well your paranoia aside, can you work on that thread for me please?
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I really don't think such a thread would be worth the effort, because square don't even care about their own beta testers, let alone look into a forum like this one. As you probably know, beta testers are not even allowed to post in their official beta-forums. So, meh. I do indeed believe that SE know what they're doing in the long run, too many of these issues are too obvious to be overlooked by a professional. If not, well, my then my doomsaying will be proven right, unfortunately.
I really don't think such a thread would be worth the effort, because square don't even care about their own beta testers, let alone look into a forum like this one. As you probably know, beta testers are not even allowed to post in their official beta-forums. So, meh. I do indeed believe that SE know what they're doing in the long run, too many of these issues are too obvious to be overlooked by a professional. If not, well, my then my doomsaying will be proven right, unfortunately.
See I wanna have all the doomsaying in one thread and have it stickied. Just think- it will be so much easier for you to just click on the one thread when ever you have a particularly tasty morsel for us. And then the rest of the community can just get on with discussing things besides the doom of ff14 .
Ok? So make a thread titled "Reccomendations, Issues and FF14 Doomsaying" and we'll get it stickied kk. Please don't make me do it. *^.^*
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
After reading this post, it seems that you and I aren't so different after all. The difference between you and I is that I still have faith in SE to deliver a great game that is similar to FFXI in many ways. None of us know what FFXIV will be like in a year, but I do know they have a good foundation going. FFXI ( before any expacs ) was fairly basic as well. All of the advanced jobs came with expansions.
For you, it may be best to wait it out. See what the game is like in a month or so, and see if it would interest you to play. For me, I want to be there at the start this time. I started late in FFXI, and don't want to miss the beginning of another great MMO.
This is exactly what i will be doing, indeed. Because dispite my numerous hate-threads in these here forums, i still have a gut-feeling, that FF XIV could turn out to be something good someday. After all, you can't really hate what you didn't love at some point and in some shape or form. Otherwise no one would bother writing on these forums. That's what i like everyone to understand. Everyone who takes up the effort and writes more than one sentence in forums like these is in some way passionate about the game. And because of that every "if you don't like it, don't come here" is completely misguided. There are numerous games listed on mmorpg.com that i don't care about and i would never write a single word in their forums. Also i don't like to write in fansite-forums, what would be the point?
I really don't think such a thread would be worth the effort, because square don't even care about their own beta testers, let alone look into a forum like this one. As you probably know, beta testers are not even allowed to post in their official beta-forums. So, meh. I do indeed believe that SE know what they're doing in the long run, too many of these issues are too obvious to be overlooked by a professional. If not, well, my then my doomsaying will be proven right, unfortunately.
See I wanna have all the doomsaying in one thread and have it stickied. Just think- it will be so much easier for you to just click on the one thread when ever you have a particularly tasty morsel for us. And then the rest of the community can just get on with discussing things besides the doom of ff14 .
Ok? So make a thread titled "Reccomendations, Issues and FF14 Doomsaying" and we'll get it stickied kk. Please don't make me do it. *^.^*
In the same sense, should there not be a single thread for everything anybody has good to say about the game?
Yes, FF XIV should have two sticked threads - Good Crap! and Bad Crap!
Neither thread should show on the front page of MMORPG with any updates.
It is amazing how much dribble goes back and forth between the haters and lovers of this particular game.
Is there an actual smear campaign going on against the game? For the most part, all I see are people complaining about the controls when they knew it was a console port and they would suck... other than that, there is just some minor bickering that you have in pretty much every other game - thus meaning, there really is nothing to see here.
There will soon be as many fanboi threads about the "hate" which is just a criticism of the controls (which is stupid because this is a stupid console port so what did you expect)... and it is actually making the game look worse for wear because of the fanbois more so than the idiots complaining about the crappy controls.
It would be nice if the fanbois and those that were naive enough to believe a game without jumping/swimming would actually have a decent port to PC would just quiet down over this nonsense.
Some of us that do not have the least bit of interest in the game want to read more about this inane idea of a fatigue system in the hopes that it is a late April Fool's Joke... because God knows some company is going to pick up the idea of a fatigue system and then sell anti-fatigue pots in their cash shop.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
LMAO I have said on multiple occasions and you can quote me and tell your friends "Square made FF11 and I am a huge fan of it, but Square enix is making FF14 and we will see upon release and after playing for a few months if it delivers" But if people are QQing and deciding to not play because of beta and early release experiences... well all the power to them.
Bai Bai
Beta and early release experiences are the general barometer of a game's likely success and longevity.
Bai bai all you like, but must be aware how flawed the logic in your post is?
I'm no hater of FFXIV, I was in beta from CB2, but I can see the problems, and I can understand some people being *very* frustrated with it. Those having trouble now should see how much "fun" it was then. There have been a lot of improvements, but there are still glaring flaws.
I'm not about to outline everything here, others have done that elsewhere on the site, but you do the game no favours by dismissing everyone who had a bad experience so readily.
Rose-tinted glasses are as perception-limiting as haterade.
I adore the FF games in general, but this is one I'll be skipping (this and most of FFXIII because it bored me senseless - yay, another tunnel !!! *snooze*).
After reading this post, it seems that you and I aren't so different after all. The difference between you and I is that I still have faith in SE to deliver a great game that is similar to FFXI in many ways. None of us know what FFXIV will be like in a year, but I do know they have a good foundation going. FFXI ( before any expacs ) was fairly basic as well. All of the advanced jobs came with expansions.
For you, it may be best to wait it out. See what the game is like in a month or so, and see if it would interest you to play. For me, I want to be there at the start this time. I started late in FFXI, and don't want to miss the beginning of another great MMO.
This is exactly what i will be doing, indeed. Because dispite my numerous hate-threads in these here forums, i still have a gut-feeling, that FF XIV could turn out to be something good someday. After all, you can't really hate what you didn't love at some point and in some shape or form. Otherwise no one would bother writing on these forums. That's what i like everyone to understand. Everyone who takes up the effort and writes more than one sentence in forums like these is in some way passionate about the game. And because of that every "if you don't like it, don't come here" is completely misguided. There are numerous games listed on mmorpg.com that i don't care about and i would never write a single word in their forums. Also i don't like to write in fansite-forums, what would be the point?
I think your flippant comments are irritating, uncalled for and unneccesary, so I speak for many when I say we would rather you go find something to do then flame the game with drivel we have heard before. If you want to talk about reccomendations and things you hope to see thats cool, but honestly it all needs to be in one thread which I think you should write !
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
In the same sense, should there not be a single thread for everything anybody has good to say about the game?
Yes, FF XIV should have two sticked threads - Good Crap! and Bad Crap!
Neither thread should show on the front page of MMORPG with any updates.
It is amazing how much dribble goes back and forth between the haters and lovers of this particular game.
Is there an actual smear campaign going on against the game? For the most part, all I see are people complaining about the controls when they knew it was a console port and they would suck... other than that, there is just some minor bickering that you have in pretty much every other game - thus meaning, there really is nothing to see here.
There will soon be as many fanboi threads about the "hate" which is just a criticism of the controls (which is stupid because this is a stupid console port so what did you expect)... and it is actually making the game look worse for wear because of the fanbois more so than the idiots complaining about the crappy controls.
It would be nice if the fanbois and those that were naive enough to believe a game without jumping/swimming would actually have a decent port to PC would just quiet down over this nonsense.
Some of us that do not have the least bit of interest in the game want to read more about this inane idea of a fatigue system in the hopes that it is a late April Fool's Joke... because God knows some company is going to pick up the idea of a fatigue system and then sell anti-fatigue pots in their cash shop.
Well I must say, Im all the happier you aren't interested.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
Well I must say, I all the happier you aren't interested.
And that is what makes you the rampant fanboi that you are on all the threads. Many of us try to take a stance of to each their own, where we respect that others like what they like - people have different interests - etc. While you, on the other hand, wish only to belittle those that have anything to say other than FFXIV is the next best thing since squeezable butter for toast.
The game in of itself holds little interest. The mechanics do. Some people are more into the story and what is going on, so they will settle for the subpar when it comes to mechanics. Some people think mechanics are just as key as the story, that their symbiotic relationship is what makes good games into great games.
For those that follow what new games are doing, well - FFXIV does not offer much in the least. Eye candy is fun to watch, but what is fun to watch is not necessarily what is fun to play. So we have seen where a company has done a poor port of a console game. If the game still muddles through, other companies that may be considering doing some sort of port may mistakenly believe that it is acceptable. Therefore, what FFXIV offers is a slap in the face to those hybrid gamers out there.
You have demonstrated repeatedly though, that you are not a person the least bit interested in why somebody might not be interested - regardless of your claims to the contrary on the matter.
So I must say, I all the whatever you all the happier.
Imagine what they could have done if they had actually put some work into the controls for the game. All of the threads complaining about them would have never come about. Something as simple as implementing a hardware cursor instead of a software cursor would have done away with the majority of them.
Yourself, and those like you, that turn a deaf eye to what is being said...answers the question "Why the hate, and who is it coming from?"
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Thats my opinion thats all. I think its a darn good one. But honestly im happy I wont ever see you in game. So /cheers
Sheesh, really?
I'm kinda happy I won't see you either, you're doing people's concept of the FFXIV community no favours at all.
You should maybe think about that a little bit.
(FWIW the vast majority of CB testers were polite, helpful sorts. Belarion is not representative of what you're likely to find in-game, for those who are wondering. Like I said, not a hater of the game, just not going to be playing it. The two are, in fact different things.)
Thats my opinion thats all. I think its a darn good one. But honestly im happy I wont ever see you in game. So /cheers
Sheesh, really?
I'm kinda happy I won't see you either, you're doing people's concept of the FFXIV community no favours at all.
You should maybe think about that a little bit.
(FWIW the vast majority of CB testers were polite, helpful sorts. Belarion is not representative of what you're likely to find in-game, for those who are wondering. Like I said, not a hater of the game, just not going to be playing it. The two are, in fact different things.)
That last part is an important part that is lost on many. There have been various threads here and there about various games...involving their lore. Some of them touched on non-gaming aspects as well - Star Wars comes to mind.
People can love the Star Wars Mythos, but still hate what Lucas did with the three prequels.
In all honesty, if these fanbois (there really is no other word for them) would actually read the people they are blasting away and dismissing - they would see that they are people that really wanted to like the game, that were looking forward to the game, are likely fans of the FF mythos, etc, etc, etc... but they were disappointed by some aspect of what the company is delivering. They are fans - not fanbois.
The obvious hate posts might be out there, but generally speaking the obvious troll is obvious troll and makes little sense.
Though I was not looking forward to FFXIV myself, I was looking forward to the graphical advances - the advances in creating a MMORPG playable on both PC and console (since it tends to be dismal) - etc. So although not a fan of FF itself, I too was disappointed with what has come about. It is not a case of hating the game - the mythos - or anything of the like - rather simply being a case of being disappointed and once again let down by a gaming company.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Thats my opinion thats all. I think its a darn good one. But honestly im happy I wont ever see you in game. So /cheers
Sheesh, really?
I'm kinda happy I won't see you either, you're doing people's concept of the FFXIV community no favours at all.
You should maybe think about that a little bit.
(FWIW the vast majority of CB testers were polite, helpful sorts. Belarion is not representative of what you're likely to find in-game, for those who are wondering. Like I said, not a hater of the game, just not going to be playing it. The two are, in fact different things.)
The only people who have a problem with what I am saying is people who have become disillusioned with the idea they thought FF14 would be for them and they think they need to plaster their bs all over the forums.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
Thats my opinion thats all. I think its a darn good one. But honestly im happy I wont ever see you in game. So /cheers
Sheesh, really?
I'm kinda happy I won't see you either, you're doing people's concept of the FFXIV community no favours at all.
You should maybe think about that a little bit.
(FWIW the vast majority of CB testers were polite, helpful sorts. Belarion is not representative of what you're likely to find in-game, for those who are wondering. Like I said, not a hater of the game, just not going to be playing it. The two are, in fact different things.)
That last part is an important part that is lost on many. There have been various threads here and there about various games...involving their lore. Some of them touched on non-gaming aspects as well - Star Wars comes to mind.
People can love the Star Wars Mythos, but still hate what Lucas did with the three prequels.
In all honesty, if these fanbois (there really is no other word for them) would actually read the people they are blasting away and dismissing - they would see that they are people that really wanted to like the game, that were looking forward to the game, are likely fans of the FF mythos, etc, etc, etc... but they were disappointed by some aspect of what the company is delivering. They are fans - not fanbois.
The obvious hate posts might be out there, but generally speaking the obvious troll is obvious troll and makes little sense.
Though I was not looking forward to FFXIV myself, I was looking forward to the graphical advances - the advances in creating a MMORPG playable on both PC and console (since it tends to be dismal) - etc. So although not a fan of FF itself, I too was disappointed with what has come about. It is not a case of hating the game - the mythos - or anything of the like - rather simply being a case of being disappointed and once again let down by a gaming company.
Well I am sorry that the game, while in beta but regardless, let you down.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I am just curious to see why there is so much hate on this game. FF 14 to me does not seem all that different from 11 as far as the controls go, combat, etc. I do not want this thread to turn into a massive e-debate so please try to be constructive.
I am just curious to see of the people who do not like the game played FF11. So post if you feel compelled.. personally for me I played FF11 a little bit when it released, I was too into other games and by the time I wanted to play it again the game was not friendly for new people... so I decided to wait until 14.. so far I really like 14... yea there are some issues but it feels like a FF game which is what I love about it.
No game can escape the wrath of gamers. Each game is hit harder than the last. Hopefully my protocol will help understand the process:
Its not gamers really.. its just this community, if you like FF14 and want to find constructive opinions about it, goto a fansite, goto Core, or origins or Zam, somewhere were the community plans on playing th egame and can voice their dislike in a method that isnt wanton bitching.
At the end of hte day, you just gotta find a group of like minded people to run with, if you base your opinion on the game based on these forums you wouldnt play ANY mmo, because according to this community the only success was ultima online.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I am just curious to see why there is so much hate on this game. FF 14 to me does not seem all that different from 11 as far as the controls go, combat, etc. I do not want this thread to turn into a massive e-debate so please try to be constructive.
I am just curious to see of the people who do not like the game played FF11. So post if you feel compelled.. personally for me I played FF11 a little bit when it released, I was too into other games and by the time I wanted to play it again the game was not friendly for new people... so I decided to wait until 14.. so far I really like 14... yea there are some issues but it feels like a FF game which is what I love about it.
No game can escape the wrath of gamers. Each game is hit harder than the last. Hopefully my protocol will help understand the process:
Its not gamers really.. its just this community, if you like FF14 and want to find constructive opinions about it, goto a fansite, goto Core, or origins or Zam, somewhere were the community plans on playing th egame and can voice their dislike in a method that isnt wanton bitching.
At the end of hte day, you just gotta find a group of like minded people to run with, if you base your opinion on the game based on these forums you wouldnt play ANY mmo, because according to this community the only success was ultima online.
Agreed , this is one of the worst forums to go to for feedback on games. Maybe not the reviews, but the forums are definately biased.
I am just curious to see why there is so much hate on this game. FF 14 to me does not seem all that different from 11 as far as the controls go, combat, etc. I do not want this thread to turn into a massive e-debate so please try to be constructive.
I am just curious to see of the people who do not like the game played FF11. So post if you feel compelled.. personally for me I played FF11 a little bit when it released, I was too into other games and by the time I wanted to play it again the game was not friendly for new people... so I decided to wait until 14.. so far I really like 14... yea there are some issues but it feels like a FF game which is what I love about it.
Pretty much the same story as me. Except I started FF11 at release for a few months and moved on to different games so by the time I wanted to play it again it was completely outdated(graphically). I love FF14, I see a lot of promise in it.
It reminds me a lot of FF11 so my only guess as to where the hate is coming from would be that the average MMO gamer these days has become so familiar with the cookie cutter MMO's that they expect the same garbage from FF14. While FF14 is not perfect and needs more time to develop, it will never satisfy the average MMO gamer.
Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.
When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.
I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...
...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.
Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.
/rant
What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.
I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SOE.
The FFanboys don't seem to realize that everyone who downloads and tries the game actually hopes it's good. If I wasn't interested or didn't like the final fantasy series, I wouldn't even bother with this. I'd just keep on playing whatever I was playing before.
I don't download and install a new game with my mmorpg forums open in the background anxious to write why it sucks. I think I speak for many people when I say we really want it to be great, but instead we get a giant dose of disappointment.
It boggles the mind to try and comprehend how the person in charge of designing the UI, controls, and menus has retained their job. Basic standard stuff like this makes a lot of people lose faith in the devs. Just because it's different from WoW doesn't make it "cool" or "new" or "innovative." It still needs to be intuitive and function properly.
Game Director: "Hey UI designer, here's your goal for this month, come up with something that the average player will hate. Don't look at any other mmos to see what works well, just do your own thing. Don't implement anything that is standard practice in mmos, we want to be completely different. Real mmo fans will appreciate this. Oh one more thing! We are doing the PC release first so make sure it can't be played with a mouse, let's really annoy the hell out of these people!"
The FFanboys don't seem to realize that everyone who downloads and tries the game actually hopes it's good. If I wasn't interested or didn't like the final fantasy series, I wouldn't even bother with this. I'd just keep on playing whatever I was playing before.
I don't download and install a new game with my mmorpg forums open in the background anxious to write why it sucks. I think I speak for many people when I say we really want it to be great, but instead we get a giant dose of disappointment.
It boggles the mind to try and comprehend how the person in charge of designing the UI, controls, and menus has retained their job. Basic standard stuff like this makes a lot of people lose faith in the devs. Just because it's different from WoW doesn't make it "cool" or "new" or "innovative." It still needs to be intuitive and function properly.
Game Director: "Hey UI designer, here's your goal for this month, come up with something that the average player will hate. Don't look at any other mmos to see what works well, just do your own thing. Don't implement anything that is standard practice in mmos, we want to be completely different. Real mmo fans will appreciate this. Oh one more thing! We are doing the PC release first so make sure it can't be played with a mouse, let's really annoy the hell out of these people!"
UI Designer: "Roger that."
Well....when people trash and trash a game before the game even enters Closed/Open Beta, then try the OB or even stops at the Launcher, come back on the forum and say "x" game sucks.....I have my doubts wether or not said player simply tried the game to be able to say that it sucked and have a little more credits than just being able to say"I heard that...". Then again, they're just pulling an Ed Zitron with posts like that...
And an interesting quote:" I should not have written that entry without being more familiar with the actual experience of video games."
If someone tries a game that he has been bashing for months and months before he tried it, logged on for 30 minutes and say "It's sucks".....well, that's far from objective, and it's a little dumb don't you think?
Comments
That would change their whining into constructive criticism / feedback. They don't want that. Blasphemy.
These are a few things i liked about FF XI:
1. The classes felt really well tought out and they had personality to them. I mean at that time it was the only MMO available to me (from Europe) where i could play a Samurai-Class for example. That was a big draw for me. Secondly the way that class combinations worked was unique and motivating.
2. Group-Play meant something. No one could afford to be a total ass, slack off or be clueless about class-mechanics, because these people never made it past lv. 10.
3. The game developed group-grinding and chainpulling to an artform where a specific state of mind called "flow" could be easily achieved by a good team. There was a certain rush to chain-pulling which is hard to describe and something that i never experienced in this quality since.
What i didn't like:
1. The world felt a little bland, the same goes for the races. Up to then Offline-FFs where famous for over the top Characterdesign and imaginative steam-punk artdirection that they re-invented with each new interation. This was all completely absent from FF XI. They tried to play it safe by implementing their own take on the generic races you could find in every generic MMO or Fantasy RPG: Dwarves, Elves, some kind of hulking brute and of course humans. Boring.
2. Story-Quests where few and far between. When you finally reached another tidbid of story, you had long forgotten what led to this part of the story.
3. The economy was broken really fast. Prices went sky-high because of poorly thought out economy tools. At least there was an auction house, albeit, again, poorly implemented.
Now we have FF XIV and it's easy to see how all what i liked about the game was thrown out of the window, while the bad parts not only didn't get fixed but got even worse. There are STILL the same races. They couldn't even be arsed to come up with something new. Classes have been dumped down significantly. Instead of Dark Knights, Bards, Samurais or Ninja, you get "Archers", "generic Melee DD with a 2H-Weapon", "generic tank class with sword and board" and so on. And the list goes on and on. And i don't even care about bugs and technical issues.
Those are some good criticisms Chess. Im flabergasted(sp). I also was let down by similar things with ff14, expressly the races ARGH! and will we see a new one??? like ever?? They said no I believe.
However, I will still try the game for a few months because I am undecided. But is there no hope for you trying the free 30 days as well?
Chess can you make the "Reccomendations and Complaints" thread?
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
After reading this post, it seems that you and I aren't so different after all. The difference between you and I is that I still have faith in SE to deliver a great game that is similar to FFXI in many ways. None of us know what FFXIV will be like in a year, but I do know they have a good foundation going. FFXI ( before any expacs ) was fairly basic as well. All of the advanced jobs came with expansions.
For you, it may be best to wait it out. See what the game is like in a month or so, and see if it would interest you to play. For me, I want to be there at the start this time. I started late in FFXI, and don't want to miss the beginning of another great MMO.
Yes exactly! Starting late in FF11 was the bane of my existence in that game. Although, I guess I mean starting again late was the bane of my existence. I played when it first came out for quite awhile but my parents stpped letting me use there cc :P I think I had been bad. lol
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
I will try and buy it but certainly not now and not on PC. In my opinion the game is not ready for release and i can't shake the feeling that the PC-Release is just used to polish the product for PS3-Release while at the same time getting some cash-in. This is not a business-practice that should be supported in my opinion and even the japanese developers should be able to learn this lesson.
Well your paranoia aside, can you work on that thread for me please?
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
I really don't think such a thread would be worth the effort, because square don't even care about their own beta testers, let alone look into a forum like this one. As you probably know, beta testers are not even allowed to post in their official beta-forums. So, meh. I do indeed believe that SE know what they're doing in the long run, too many of these issues are too obvious to be overlooked by a professional. If not, well, my then my doomsaying will be proven right, unfortunately.
See I wanna have all the doomsaying in one thread and have it stickied. Just think- it will be so much easier for you to just click on the one thread when ever you have a particularly tasty morsel for us. And then the rest of the community can just get on with discussing things besides the doom of ff14 .
Ok? So make a thread titled "Reccomendations, Issues and FF14 Doomsaying" and we'll get it stickied kk. Please don't make me do it. *^.^*
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
This is exactly what i will be doing, indeed. Because dispite my numerous hate-threads in these here forums, i still have a gut-feeling, that FF XIV could turn out to be something good someday. After all, you can't really hate what you didn't love at some point and in some shape or form. Otherwise no one would bother writing on these forums. That's what i like everyone to understand. Everyone who takes up the effort and writes more than one sentence in forums like these is in some way passionate about the game. And because of that every "if you don't like it, don't come here" is completely misguided. There are numerous games listed on mmorpg.com that i don't care about and i would never write a single word in their forums. Also i don't like to write in fansite-forums, what would be the point?
In the same sense, should there not be a single thread for everything anybody has good to say about the game?
Yes, FF XIV should have two sticked threads - Good Crap! and Bad Crap!
Neither thread should show on the front page of MMORPG with any updates.
It is amazing how much dribble goes back and forth between the haters and lovers of this particular game.
Is there an actual smear campaign going on against the game? For the most part, all I see are people complaining about the controls when they knew it was a console port and they would suck... other than that, there is just some minor bickering that you have in pretty much every other game - thus meaning, there really is nothing to see here.
There will soon be as many fanboi threads about the "hate" which is just a criticism of the controls (which is stupid because this is a stupid console port so what did you expect)... and it is actually making the game look worse for wear because of the fanbois more so than the idiots complaining about the crappy controls.
It would be nice if the fanbois and those that were naive enough to believe a game without jumping/swimming would actually have a decent port to PC would just quiet down over this nonsense.
Some of us that do not have the least bit of interest in the game want to read more about this inane idea of a fatigue system in the hopes that it is a late April Fool's Joke... because God knows some company is going to pick up the idea of a fatigue system and then sell anti-fatigue pots in their cash shop.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Beta and early release experiences are the general barometer of a game's likely success and longevity.
Bai bai all you like, but must be aware how flawed the logic in your post is?
I'm no hater of FFXIV, I was in beta from CB2, but I can see the problems, and I can understand some people being *very* frustrated with it. Those having trouble now should see how much "fun" it was then. There have been a lot of improvements, but there are still glaring flaws.
I'm not about to outline everything here, others have done that elsewhere on the site, but you do the game no favours by dismissing everyone who had a bad experience so readily.
Rose-tinted glasses are as perception-limiting as haterade.
I adore the FF games in general, but this is one I'll be skipping (this and most of FFXIII because it bored me senseless - yay, another tunnel !!! *snooze*).
I think your flippant comments are irritating, uncalled for and unneccesary, so I speak for many when I say we would rather you go find something to do then flame the game with drivel we have heard before. If you want to talk about reccomendations and things you hope to see thats cool, but honestly it all needs to be in one thread which I think you should write !
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Well I must say, Im all the happier you aren't interested.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
And that is what makes you the rampant fanboi that you are on all the threads. Many of us try to take a stance of to each their own, where we respect that others like what they like - people have different interests - etc. While you, on the other hand, wish only to belittle those that have anything to say other than FFXIV is the next best thing since squeezable butter for toast.
The game in of itself holds little interest. The mechanics do. Some people are more into the story and what is going on, so they will settle for the subpar when it comes to mechanics. Some people think mechanics are just as key as the story, that their symbiotic relationship is what makes good games into great games.
For those that follow what new games are doing, well - FFXIV does not offer much in the least. Eye candy is fun to watch, but what is fun to watch is not necessarily what is fun to play. So we have seen where a company has done a poor port of a console game. If the game still muddles through, other companies that may be considering doing some sort of port may mistakenly believe that it is acceptable. Therefore, what FFXIV offers is a slap in the face to those hybrid gamers out there.
You have demonstrated repeatedly though, that you are not a person the least bit interested in why somebody might not be interested - regardless of your claims to the contrary on the matter.
So I must say, I all the whatever you all the happier.
Imagine what they could have done if they had actually put some work into the controls for the game. All of the threads complaining about them would have never come about. Something as simple as implementing a hardware cursor instead of a software cursor would have done away with the majority of them.
Yourself, and those like you, that turn a deaf eye to what is being said...answers the question "Why the hate, and who is it coming from?"
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Sheesh, really?
I'm kinda happy I won't see you either, you're doing people's concept of the FFXIV community no favours at all.
You should maybe think about that a little bit.
(FWIW the vast majority of CB testers were polite, helpful sorts. Belarion is not representative of what you're likely to find in-game, for those who are wondering. Like I said, not a hater of the game, just not going to be playing it. The two are, in fact different things.)
That last part is an important part that is lost on many. There have been various threads here and there about various games...involving their lore. Some of them touched on non-gaming aspects as well - Star Wars comes to mind.
People can love the Star Wars Mythos, but still hate what Lucas did with the three prequels.
In all honesty, if these fanbois (there really is no other word for them) would actually read the people they are blasting away and dismissing - they would see that they are people that really wanted to like the game, that were looking forward to the game, are likely fans of the FF mythos, etc, etc, etc... but they were disappointed by some aspect of what the company is delivering. They are fans - not fanbois.
The obvious hate posts might be out there, but generally speaking the obvious troll is obvious troll and makes little sense.
Though I was not looking forward to FFXIV myself, I was looking forward to the graphical advances - the advances in creating a MMORPG playable on both PC and console (since it tends to be dismal) - etc. So although not a fan of FF itself, I too was disappointed with what has come about. It is not a case of hating the game - the mythos - or anything of the like - rather simply being a case of being disappointed and once again let down by a gaming company.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The only people who have a problem with what I am saying is people who have become disillusioned with the idea they thought FF14 would be for them and they think they need to plaster their bs all over the forums.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Well I am sorry that the game, while in beta but regardless, let you down.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Its not gamers really.. its just this community, if you like FF14 and want to find constructive opinions about it, goto a fansite, goto Core, or origins or Zam, somewhere were the community plans on playing th egame and can voice their dislike in a method that isnt wanton bitching.
At the end of hte day, you just gotta find a group of like minded people to run with, if you base your opinion on the game based on these forums you wouldnt play ANY mmo, because according to this community the only success was ultima online.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Agreed , this is one of the worst forums to go to for feedback on games. Maybe not the reviews, but the forums are definately biased.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Pretty much the same story as me. Except I started FF11 at release for a few months and moved on to different games so by the time I wanted to play it again it was completely outdated(graphically). I love FF14, I see a lot of promise in it.
It reminds me a lot of FF11 so my only guess as to where the hate is coming from would be that the average MMO gamer these days has become so familiar with the cookie cutter MMO's that they expect the same garbage from FF14. While FF14 is not perfect and needs more time to develop, it will never satisfy the average MMO gamer.
Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.
When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.
I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...
...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.
Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.
/rant
What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.
I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SOE.
The FFanboys don't seem to realize that everyone who downloads and tries the game actually hopes it's good. If I wasn't interested or didn't like the final fantasy series, I wouldn't even bother with this. I'd just keep on playing whatever I was playing before.
I don't download and install a new game with my mmorpg forums open in the background anxious to write why it sucks. I think I speak for many people when I say we really want it to be great, but instead we get a giant dose of disappointment.
It boggles the mind to try and comprehend how the person in charge of designing the UI, controls, and menus has retained their job. Basic standard stuff like this makes a lot of people lose faith in the devs. Just because it's different from WoW doesn't make it "cool" or "new" or "innovative." It still needs to be intuitive and function properly.
Game Director: "Hey UI designer, here's your goal for this month, come up with something that the average player will hate. Don't look at any other mmos to see what works well, just do your own thing. Don't implement anything that is standard practice in mmos, we want to be completely different. Real mmo fans will appreciate this. Oh one more thing! We are doing the PC release first so make sure it can't be played with a mouse, let's really annoy the hell out of these people!"
UI Designer: "Roger that."
Well....when people trash and trash a game before the game even enters Closed/Open Beta, then try the OB or even stops at the Launcher, come back on the forum and say "x" game sucks.....I have my doubts wether or not said player simply tried the game to be able to say that it sucked and have a little more credits than just being able to say"I heard that...". Then again, they're just pulling an Ed Zitron with posts like that...
You should read Roger Ebert's "apology" he wrote a while back.
And an interesting quote:" I should not have written that entry without being more familiar with the actual experience of video games."
If someone tries a game that he has been bashing for months and months before he tried it, logged on for 30 minutes and say "It's sucks".....well, that's far from objective, and it's a little dumb don't you think?