Im in the dont care camp on this one. As someone who enjoys crafting it doesnt seem to be something needed in a game like this. So, I dont care as long there is enough other things to do to keep me interested.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I love crafting, I really do. Even in SRPGs like Star Ocean 2, I loved crafting. In DCUO? I'm glad I won't be farming mats and "tinkering". The collection aspect sounds fun as I'm a hoarder anyway.
So batman made some of his stuff, who cares? I bet he's not mining his own ore or gathering pigeon feathers to do so. Green Arrow probably makes some of his trick arrows too, but I bet he gets his stuff from the local vendor.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
But But....I wanted to play an "inspired by MacGuyver" type character to makes tactical nukes out of mayonaise and aluminum foil. Damn now what am I going to do with all this mayonaise I farmed.
I don't see the value in crafting for a super hero MMO. There are better gameplay mechanics that could take the place of crafting grind.
Its one thing to say that a Batman like character makes his own gadgets but it is another thing all together to have to actually make them.
See that's what people who think it fits into the game are missing, Batman does this kind of thing but how many times do they show him actually creating the stuff? If they do it's like one panel of him near a computer and it's like fabricated with no effort.
Just because something has relevance to an IP, doesn't mean it's worthwhile to implement. People are going to give me crap for it but a good example of this is entertainers and chefs in the original Star Wars Galaxy, I don't know about you but I was a bit annoyed that they spent development time on something stupid like that.
I can see spice makers, gun/armorsmiths and even slicers but dancers? Really? I am sure it wasn't alot of development time but I want to be a daring smuggler or deceptive imperial spy, not a damn chef in a Star Wars game.
It's like the whole secret identity thing, not sure what the game has for it but why do people want to be running around in business suits going to grab a coffee and a donut in game when they can go toe to toe with someone like Sinestro?
While the concept of crafting is usually fun, in actually gameplay its pointless and stupid. Everyone's crafting and selling their crap to no one excep for extremely rare stuff. Or people just make alts that craft.
Basically everyone's crafting for the same purpose, so its pointless. You can skip all that non-sense and just buy stuff or get them as rewards and have more time for the actual game.
I liked the concept in falen earth. But really, whats the point. You spend months trying to build something cool andeveryone else is trying to build too. I dunno, I guess over all its just a time waster and it probably just makes people feel like they're creating something special, when they are just making items that aleady exist.
On the other hand, I like the concept of upgrading weapons and gear rather than buying new stuff. Like monster hunter's weapon system. You go out and hunt for materials and get choices for what path your weapon takes. But if you're just building stuff from scratch and hen thats the end of that weapon once you out grow it, that can be tedious
While the concept of crafting is usually fun, in actually gameplay its pointless and stupid. Everyone's crafting and selling their crap to no one excep for extremely rare stuff. Or people just make alts that craft.
You about sum it up. The problem with crafting is that EVERYONE is making the exact same crap from the exact same list and all trying to sell it. This in and of itself is flipping stupid. Star wars galaxies had it sorta right in that alot of really good crafters could produce some semi unique stuff that was better than just a joe blow crafting dabbler. While crafting really had no business being so central in a star wars game it was probably one of the better systems we've seen.
Until players can make unique goods and create their own stuff by combining items and actually produce some sort of unique products i think crafting should be left out of all MMO's as it's nothing but a grindfest to the extreme and forces people that don't give a crap about crafting to deal with those that do to get items they might want. That was the problem with SWG, questing and fighting was made completely pointless as the only way to get gear was to buy it so adventuring became a cash grind so crafters would have someone to sell to and it ruined the game.
Crafting ruins most of the games I've played. That's not to say all. I did my fair share of crafting back in the good ole days of Star Wars Galaxies. But, it's definitely not necessary in DCUO. Besides, this is just the news for initial release. If people have a strong enough plea for crafting, they might implement it at a later date.
You kinda have to view this game in another way. Excluding crafting might make the PS3 version of the game work more fluid (no lag) without the database load. For the devs, they are trying to target your standard console driver demographic and simpler seems to be the trend. The instant gratification crowd do not like crafting. Prolonged reward has no merit or depth if it has to be carried over more than a single gaming session.
What this issue really means is there will be no non-combat activities at launch that will have any impact. I would ask (and have) if there were systems to allow the development of Detective Skills or Scientific Research outside the combat dome. There will only be the on rails advancement of your quest with discoveries of such as part of the story.
I come from Star Wars Galaxies that has an award winning crafting system that use to be completely intrigrul to the game. Today, after the NGE, it remains mostly intact but undermined by lack of player market intrest due to Looted reward alternatives and Raid token vendors. SOE has the knowledge to make a good crafting system. DCUO however is a new venture for SOE towards a genara and platform they have never tried. In this case, "when in doubt, do without" and we move further away from the original concepts of MMORPG worlds to simpler MMOGs.
So what is your stance on No Craftng, JYCowboy? If the game seems full and complex without crafting the so be it. However, if it looses folks like STO did, then maybe they should have given crafting another look. As to whether I think crafting belongs in a Superhero game? I am a dedicated DC reader and know many heroes and villians that craft so its not unforseen to have.
there will be comments about the game may be fun anyway but i'll never know - again, simple
I have to agree with you on this one, while fully understanding that some people couldn't care less about crafting. I actually enjoy making things more than I enjoy killing things lately. I suppose I'm just getting old!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
couldn't care less about this news. Crafting in MMO's is usually a pretty stupid simplistic affair anyways. And i hate how the game design always has to cater to the crafting community somehow making you forced to buy crafted crap instead of questing or fighting for your stuff.
Kinda glad they are leaving out crafting.
People have the same stance about raiding, grouping, soloing, questing, pvp, levels, and every other aspect of typical mmo gameplay. In a well built game everyone benefits from the presence of different types of activities. One not being any more important than the other, especially when viewed as a whole.
That being said, I suspect the lack of crafting might have a strong tie in to a cash shop approach more than anything else. Soe has already said DCU will be a heavy gear acquisition based game even though it may not affect appearance.
Or Batman, The Green Arrow, or to take a step outside the DC milieu, Spider-man, Iron Man, Reed Richards, the Tinkerer, Punisher, none of those have EVER been known to, you know, BUILD anything ever. No crafting turns Iron Man from a brilliant technical genius who designed and built his unique armour, to just some dude who knows how to pilot it. Batman invented, designed, and built EVERYTHING in his arsenal from scratch. Take that away and you pretty much have a ninja in a funky costume.
Personally I see no reason to leave the DC verse as it's a DC only game.
I'd say batman, ironman, and the other gadgeteers probably designed and built their own fantastic gear, but that's kind of an aspect of their own identities and powers, not something anyone else can do. You don't see Iron FIst with a Fistarang, or Machine Man with an Androjet.
(Yeah, I figured I'd pick on some 3rd stringers just to stir up some old memories. If any of those guys are not DC, sorry, it's been a long time since I've seen them.)
Heck, I could even accept the idea of Zatana collecting trinkets, especially magical ones, from bad guys, but can anyone out there honestly say that Zatana would make sense chasing down the trashbin muggers to get a rare drop of gauchi pleather purse, the last component to make a MotoCadabraCycle...
Yeah, the concepts of that get even more disturbing the longer you think about "crafting" being available to all players, instead of just being the fluff/explanation for gadget based characters power. After all, you can't all be radioactive alien wizard shaolin mutants.
All you nubs that complain about crafting should stick to console games that end when you stop playing.
IMO, all MMOs should have meaningful crafting. Does not always have to be complicated to be good.
Also, I think SWG might actually have a more indepth crafting system than EQ2.
As for crafting not having it is just because they are targeting the Game Console Demographic more and more and that does not equal PC Demographic by a long shot.
We also have accountants running gaming companies more than ever and they are too stupid to realize you have to make the money before you count it.
Bottom line for me is that MMOs are dumbing down more and more every year. Studios can't manage money and partner with companeis that force them to cut corners and release early. Anymore when I see Beta testing, I know that is really the first external Alpha test. Real beta testing is occuring after release and customers are becoming QA / QC.
With this pervail amount of fail in the studios and companies, we will liekly never again see an MMO with crafting like SWG or EQ2. Everything is now short term, rake in the money, bail. That means minimal fixed costs for maintenance so crafting is a loser.
No crafting probably means more items to offer in the cash shop.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
I think we have a winner!
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
As a long time player of CoH I'm sure I'm in the demographic that SOE would like to attract with DCUO. This news tells me the game is under-developed. If they had announced some new way ot doing crafting or some innovative alternative then I would be intrigued. But this just smacks of shallowness. Granted crafting drives grinding but it also lends depth. We take the bad with the good.
I probably won't be buying this but will try it out if a trial is available. I've already failed to be captivated by CO.
I'm gonna have to agree.
I also have to say that I really liked CoH's invention system (CO's is rubbish,) they've tried hard to make it not too grindy, it's not difficult to get into at all, and the stuff you make can be sold for good prices or used to great effect on your character. I know CoH didn't launch with the invention system, but I can't imagine it without it now.
When I see "no crafting system," or "hastily put together piece of crap crafting system" that tells me that the developers were cutting corners and cutting stuff from the game because they couldn't be bothered to put in the effort.
"No Batman, you can't invent new gadgets in the Bat Cave to foil crimer. Crafting doesn't exist."
What was your point in these threads? These threads only mention costume item only. There is no advantages for costume item only in looks. Stop trolling this thread please.
Let's hope you are right. But there is going to be MT in this game.
I am not a big crafter, but I think it could of worked for DCUO. Heroes can build crime fighting tools and Villians build stuff for their nefarious designs. As a gear centered auction marketplace? No. Maybe a secret government laboratory or underground market. Crafted items could be picked up, thrown and/ or destroyed. Oh well.
Comics get maybe a few panels, the movies get a quick montage, and its a one time thing that isn't repeated several times in the same story arc and for good reason. Its boring to do and boring to watch.
Never liked crafting. Only time I dealt with it is when they randomly tied in stuff to adventuring that requires crafting. Games would shoe horn needs for crafting into adventuring so more people would even bother with it.
I honestly hope this is a trend, where crafting is nuked all together or an extremely small amount of focus. It has a horrible fun/development time ratio in MMO's, development time better spent on stuff more people like.
I have played CoH since the start and it didnt have crafting for a long time after release. I do like crafting but when this game comes out and it doesnt have crafting, ill still give it a shot.
Comments
Im in the dont care camp on this one. As someone who enjoys crafting it doesnt seem to be something needed in a game like this. So, I dont care as long there is enough other things to do to keep me interested.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I avoid crafting whenever possible, so yay.
I love crafting, I really do. Even in SRPGs like Star Ocean 2, I loved crafting. In DCUO? I'm glad I won't be farming mats and "tinkering". The collection aspect sounds fun as I'm a hoarder anyway.
So batman made some of his stuff, who cares? I bet he's not mining his own ore or gathering pigeon feathers to do so. Green Arrow probably makes some of his trick arrows too, but I bet he gets his stuff from the local vendor.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
But But....I wanted to play an "inspired by MacGuyver" type character to makes tactical nukes out of mayonaise and aluminum foil. Damn now what am I going to do with all this mayonaise I farmed.
See that's what people who think it fits into the game are missing, Batman does this kind of thing but how many times do they show him actually creating the stuff? If they do it's like one panel of him near a computer and it's like fabricated with no effort.
Just because something has relevance to an IP, doesn't mean it's worthwhile to implement. People are going to give me crap for it but a good example of this is entertainers and chefs in the original Star Wars Galaxy, I don't know about you but I was a bit annoyed that they spent development time on something stupid like that.
I can see spice makers, gun/armorsmiths and even slicers but dancers? Really? I am sure it wasn't alot of development time but I want to be a daring smuggler or deceptive imperial spy, not a damn chef in a Star Wars game.
It's like the whole secret identity thing, not sure what the game has for it but why do people want to be running around in business suits going to grab a coffee and a donut in game when they can go toe to toe with someone like Sinestro?
While the concept of crafting is usually fun, in actually gameplay its pointless and stupid. Everyone's crafting and selling their crap to no one excep for extremely rare stuff. Or people just make alts that craft.
Basically everyone's crafting for the same purpose, so its pointless. You can skip all that non-sense and just buy stuff or get them as rewards and have more time for the actual game.
I liked the concept in falen earth. But really, whats the point. You spend months trying to build something cool andeveryone else is trying to build too. I dunno, I guess over all its just a time waster and it probably just makes people feel like they're creating something special, when they are just making items that aleady exist.
On the other hand, I like the concept of upgrading weapons and gear rather than buying new stuff. Like monster hunter's weapon system. You go out and hunt for materials and get choices for what path your weapon takes. But if you're just building stuff from scratch and hen thats the end of that weapon once you out grow it, that can be tedious
You about sum it up. The problem with crafting is that EVERYONE is making the exact same crap from the exact same list and all trying to sell it. This in and of itself is flipping stupid. Star wars galaxies had it sorta right in that alot of really good crafters could produce some semi unique stuff that was better than just a joe blow crafting dabbler. While crafting really had no business being so central in a star wars game it was probably one of the better systems we've seen.
Until players can make unique goods and create their own stuff by combining items and actually produce some sort of unique products i think crafting should be left out of all MMO's as it's nothing but a grindfest to the extreme and forces people that don't give a crap about crafting to deal with those that do to get items they might want. That was the problem with SWG, questing and fighting was made completely pointless as the only way to get gear was to buy it so adventuring became a cash grind so crafters would have someone to sell to and it ruined the game.
Crafting ruins most of the games I've played. That's not to say all. I did my fair share of crafting back in the good ole days of Star Wars Galaxies. But, it's definitely not necessary in DCUO. Besides, this is just the news for initial release. If people have a strong enough plea for crafting, they might implement it at a later date.
You kinda have to view this game in another way. Excluding crafting might make the PS3 version of the game work more fluid (no lag) without the database load. For the devs, they are trying to target your standard console driver demographic and simpler seems to be the trend. The instant gratification crowd do not like crafting. Prolonged reward has no merit or depth if it has to be carried over more than a single gaming session.
What this issue really means is there will be no non-combat activities at launch that will have any impact. I would ask (and have) if there were systems to allow the development of Detective Skills or Scientific Research outside the combat dome. There will only be the on rails advancement of your quest with discoveries of such as part of the story.
I come from Star Wars Galaxies that has an award winning crafting system that use to be completely intrigrul to the game. Today, after the NGE, it remains mostly intact but undermined by lack of player market intrest due to Looted reward alternatives and Raid token vendors. SOE has the knowledge to make a good crafting system. DCUO however is a new venture for SOE towards a genara and platform they have never tried. In this case, "when in doubt, do without" and we move further away from the original concepts of MMORPG worlds to simpler MMOGs.
So what is your stance on No Craftng, JYCowboy? If the game seems full and complex without crafting the so be it. However, if it looses folks like STO did, then maybe they should have given crafting another look. As to whether I think crafting belongs in a Superhero game? I am a dedicated DC reader and know many heroes and villians that craft so its not unforseen to have.
I have to agree with you on this one, while fully understanding that some people couldn't care less about crafting. I actually enjoy making things more than I enjoy killing things lately. I suppose I'm just getting old!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Good no crafting you have my sub. Im so sick of crafting in MMOs What is the point in having crafting? All crafting does is inflat the economy.
People have the same stance about raiding, grouping, soloing, questing, pvp, levels, and every other aspect of typical mmo gameplay. In a well built game everyone benefits from the presence of different types of activities. One not being any more important than the other, especially when viewed as a whole.
That being said, I suspect the lack of crafting might have a strong tie in to a cash shop approach more than anything else. Soe has already said DCU will be a heavy gear acquisition based game even though it may not affect appearance.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
No crafting probably means more items to offer in the cash shop.
Personally I see no reason to leave the DC verse as it's a DC only game.
I'd say batman, ironman, and the other gadgeteers probably designed and built their own fantastic gear, but that's kind of an aspect of their own identities and powers, not something anyone else can do. You don't see Iron FIst with a Fistarang, or Machine Man with an Androjet.
(Yeah, I figured I'd pick on some 3rd stringers just to stir up some old memories. If any of those guys are not DC, sorry, it's been a long time since I've seen them.)
Heck, I could even accept the idea of Zatana collecting trinkets, especially magical ones, from bad guys, but can anyone out there honestly say that Zatana would make sense chasing down the trashbin muggers to get a rare drop of gauchi pleather purse, the last component to make a MotoCadabraCycle...
Yeah, the concepts of that get even more disturbing the longer you think about "crafting" being available to all players, instead of just being the fluff/explanation for gadget based characters power. After all, you can't all be radioactive alien wizard shaolin mutants.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/55681/DC-Universe-Online-Subscription-Fees-Microtransactions-Announced
http://www.tentonhammer.com/dc-universe-online/news/microtransactions-no-pay-to-win
What was your point in these threads? These threads only mention costume item only. There is no advantages for costume item only in looks.
[Mod Edit]
All you nubs that complain about crafting should stick to console games that end when you stop playing.
IMO, all MMOs should have meaningful crafting. Does not always have to be complicated to be good.
Also, I think SWG might actually have a more indepth crafting system than EQ2.
As for crafting not having it is just because they are targeting the Game Console Demographic more and more and that does not equal PC Demographic by a long shot.
We also have accountants running gaming companies more than ever and they are too stupid to realize you have to make the money before you count it.
Bottom line for me is that MMOs are dumbing down more and more every year. Studios can't manage money and partner with companeis that force them to cut corners and release early. Anymore when I see Beta testing, I know that is really the first external Alpha test. Real beta testing is occuring after release and customers are becoming QA / QC.
With this pervail amount of fail in the studios and companies, we will liekly never again see an MMO with crafting like SWG or EQ2. Everything is now short term, rake in the money, bail. That means minimal fixed costs for maintenance so crafting is a loser.
IMHO.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
I think we have a winner!
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I'm gonna have to agree.
I also have to say that I really liked CoH's invention system (CO's is rubbish,) they've tried hard to make it not too grindy, it's not difficult to get into at all, and the stuff you make can be sold for good prices or used to great effect on your character. I know CoH didn't launch with the invention system, but I can't imagine it without it now.
When I see "no crafting system," or "hastily put together piece of crap crafting system" that tells me that the developers were cutting corners and cutting stuff from the game because they couldn't be bothered to put in the effort.
"No Batman, you can't invent new gadgets in the Bat Cave to foil crimer. Crafting doesn't exist."
CoH - 1, DCUO - 0
Let's hope you are right. But there is going to be MT in this game.
I am not a big crafter, but I think it could of worked for DCUO. Heroes can build crime fighting tools and Villians build stuff for their nefarious designs. As a gear centered auction marketplace? No. Maybe a secret government laboratory or underground market. Crafted items could be picked up, thrown and/ or destroyed. Oh well.
Comics get maybe a few panels, the movies get a quick montage, and its a one time thing that isn't repeated several times in the same story arc and for good reason. Its boring to do and boring to watch.
Never liked crafting. Only time I dealt with it is when they randomly tied in stuff to adventuring that requires crafting. Games would shoe horn needs for crafting into adventuring so more people would even bother with it.
I honestly hope this is a trend, where crafting is nuked all together or an extremely small amount of focus. It has a horrible fun/development time ratio in MMO's, development time better spent on stuff more people like.
I have played CoH since the start and it didnt have crafting for a long time after release. I do like crafting but when this game comes out and it doesnt have crafting, ill still give it a shot.
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