I shouldn't haved said linear, bad choice of words. GW2 questing does have some depth, but its still not as deep as a lot of people I've talked with thought it would be. Defend farm can llead to rebuilding events or sustaining the site, etc etc. Limited consequence, but no absolute permenance. For Rift, the talent/advancement was good, but very generic otherwise. Played exactly like WoW in starter zone, very linear, no open choice. Good class selection, played a Defiant Reaver to lvl 6, mix a wow rogue w fury warrior. SWTOR, voice work was cool, but combat was poor. Autoattack blaster fire looks wrong, very much wow clone. World/environments were good for the art style, but the gameplay was just not fun. Granted, each game I only had 15-20 min hands on time. TERA had best combat, Rift best char advancement, GW2 best questing, and I guess SWTOR had best production values, but no one game was amazingly better than the others.
i was in agreement with your thought even though im not a swtor fan boy or any of the games this tread is talking about but In the research on swtor there is no auto attack in the game. So hard to believe you played it.
Oh and just as a side note i was super hyped about GW2 until i saw gameplay of it. It sounded a lot better in the blogs on there site than it looks when they showing it. The combat may be a blast like some of you said but I won't know that unless i try the game and same goes for all of you saying it is much more fun than other mmo's if you haven't tried it you have no idea if it is fun could look cool but suck.
Oh and just as a side note i was super hyped about GW2 until i saw gameplay of it. It sounded a lot better in the blogs on there site than it looks when they showing it. The combat may be a blast like some of you said but I won't know that unless i try the game and same goes for all of you saying it is much more fun than other mmo's if you haven't tried it you have no idea if it is fun could look cool but suck.
I think a trial is necessary in all cases. But I too was hyped for GW2, saw a video, was disheartened, saw another video and became some what hyped again. The new video showed how striking your opponent from the side or behind dealt extra damage.
If GW2 becomes a completely persistent world rather than the lobby/group method GW1 had, I think the zero subscription fee alone is worth buying it.
Tera on the other hand, looks like it could be amazing. But the developers need to make sure storyline is pushed heavily otherwise it'll seem like we're just playing in a sandbox full of monsters. It'll be tough but it seems to me like Tera has been one of the bigger MMORPGs in the spending and development areas lately.
Oh and just as a side note i was super hyped about GW2 until i saw gameplay of it. It sounded a lot better in the blogs on there site than it looks when they showing it. The combat may be a blast like some of you said but I won't know that unless i try the game and same goes for all of you saying it is much more fun than other mmo's if you haven't tried it you have no idea if it is fun could look cool but suck.
I think a trial is necessary in all cases. But I too was hyped for GW2, saw a video, was disheartened, saw another video and became some what hyped again. The new video showed how striking your opponent from the side or behind dealt extra damage.
If GW2 becomes a completely persistent world rather than the lobby/group method GW1 had, I think the zero subscription fee alone is worth buying it.
Tera on the other hand, looks like it could be amazing. But the developers need to make sure storyline is pushed heavily otherwise it'll seem like we're just playing in a sandbox full of monsters. It'll be tough but it seems to me like Tera has been one of the bigger MMORPGs in the spending and development areas lately.
I think a trial is necessary in all cases. But I too was hyped for GW2, saw a video, was disheartened, saw another video and became some what hyped again. The new video showed how striking your opponent from the side or behind dealt extra damage.
If GW2 becomes a completely persistent world rather than the lobby/group method GW1 had, I think the zero subscription fee alone is worth buying it.
Tera on the other hand, looks like it could be amazing. But the developers need to make sure storyline is pushed heavily otherwise it'll seem like we're just playing in a sandbox full of monsters. It'll be tough but it seems to me like Tera has been one of the bigger MMORPGs in the spending and development areas lately.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Though I am getting Tera for a test, I still put my vote on GW2 being the better game.
Mainly for one reason... Unpredictability.
If I play an MMO long enough, I can log into a game and bet money I know where each Merchant/NPC is. I would never make that bet with GW2. When the brood mother came out, one of the gameplay clips shows NPC's running all over the place. And we haven't even begun to see village raids. NPC's moving out to camp somewhere else? I know what I picture in my head is too good for GW2, but if they even capture a fraction of that "alive and breathing" feeling, then I'm sold.
Also those who say Tera's animations are better clearly are not watching carefully. They may be smooth, but the coding/timing behind the animations are aweful. The lancer charging was horrible. The actually turning of the character is almost 2d-ish.
Tera has nice paced combat, but faster is simply faster. GW2 has cross class combos, which may not be entirely new, still breaks from the mold. Any projectiles flying through a flame will be turned into a fiery projectile. Any person running through a fog of disease and poison will cast a small aura of such toxic.
Skin textures look great in Tera, whereas they pretty much suck in GW2. GW2 also has an annoying haze around the currently selected target.
While all things are subject to change, GW2 is still the better game price for price. Perhaps just plain better.
I would argue that more complex raid encounters would be possible in this game given that the combat is more dynamic, everyone can dodge everything. This means two things.
1) Healing doesn't need to be as spam intensive because people have the ability to avoid all damage, all the time. The only person who is going to be somewhat stationary is the Lancer class and you wont need to spam stackable HoTs, high single target heals and instant heals on your tank for the next 10 minutes because he isn't just sitting there absorbing damage. He can block it, he can avoid it, he's not reliant on you putting out 20k healing per 4 seconds. Hell, the other tank class in the game is designed to NOT get hit. There is actually an evasion tank designed from the ground up into the game.
2) Bosses are allowed a lot more unique skill sets and a lot more dangerous abilities because of this same reason. Because people can dodge, because people can block, because people can body block other people, the devs don't have to worry as much about managing the bosses DPS so as to outstrip your heals. When you can't avoid anything a parties survival is entirely dependent on whether or not the healer can heal more than the enemies can damage, and encounters have to be balanced around this. When you can avoid everything, they could very well make difficult raid encounters where bosses have extremely high damaging skills that you aren't meant to heal through because they are avoidable by everyone, or they could implement situations where an ability would more or less kill everyone except the Lancer using Shield Block, meaning that people would have to hide behind the Lancer to not die.
Other games rely heavly on RNG rolls, In tera I will be able to by-pass that roll of the dice if I'm good enough.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Just shut up all.We all know everyone is super hyped about new awesome game watched on youtube or played at game conventions for 10-30mins and in the end people start post shit on forums how much it sucked.Wait the game to be realised than judge.
I would argue that more complex raid encounters would be possible in this game given that the combat is more dynamic, everyone can dodge everything. This means two things.
1) Healing doesn't need to be as spam intensive because people have the ability to avoid all damage, all the time. The only person who is going to be somewhat stationary is the Lancer class and you wont need to spam stackable HoTs, high single target heals and instant heals on your tank for the next 10 minutes because he isn't just sitting there absorbing damage. He can block it, he can avoid it, he's not reliant on you putting out 20k healing per 4 seconds. Hell, the other tank class in the game is designed to NOT get hit. There is actually an evasion tank designed from the ground up into the game.
2) Bosses are allowed a lot more unique skill sets and a lot more dangerous abilities because of this same reason. Because people can dodge, because people can block, because people can body block other people, the devs don't have to worry as much about managing the bosses DPS so as to outstrip your heals. When you can't avoid anything a parties survival is entirely dependent on whether or not the healer can heal more than the enemies can damage, and encounters have to be balanced around this. When you can avoid everything, they could very well make difficult raid encounters where bosses have extremely high damaging skills that you aren't meant to heal through because they are avoidable by everyone, or they could implement situations where an ability would more or less kill everyone except the Lancer using Shield Block, meaning that people would have to hide behind the Lancer to not die.
Other games rely heavly on RNG rolls, In tera I will be able to by-pass that roll of the dice if I'm good enough.
I think you may be uninformed with GW2 (no offense intended.)
GW2 has active dodging. We saw PLENTY of it in the gameplay videos. If a projectile does not hit your character model, it will be a miss. Of course with latency and all, this may be a problem, but it also assoctiated with Tera.
We have also seen active blocking. Skills like holding up your shield as long as you like. And yes, it utilzes the Havok physics engine to code where the blocking is actually effective. Flames will bend around the shield and what not.
Also, it almost seems like you hate games that rely on ONE healer. Everything you said about the boss, is exactly what the GW2 team are trying to improve on. They specifically took out the healer class, so that, not only the boss battles, but the ENTIRE game is balanced around having a balanced team. You speak of everyone being able to survive on their own in Tera, well that is in GW2. Each class is designed to have a pool of healing/self-sustaining skills.
I do see one problem with your logic. You claim that the game is NOT balanced around the healer. Which could be a good thing, but think of it this way...
A group of 5 go exploring. The game is balanced around the 5 of them being able to dodge or whatever (as you claim.) So this is a pretty equal match. The game is not too easy, not too hard. Each class can survive through dodging and blocking, so the game notes this. Well what happens when you DO get a good healer. Suddenly all of this dodging if useless, as a healer can pretty much cover anything dodging was supposed to nullify. That's where your point falls apart. The game IS balanced around having a healer. It has to be, otherwise a healer would be overpowered.
GW2 on the hand, does not need to be balanced around having a healer. Because there are no dedicated healers. Not a single class (as stated by the devs) will be built upon healing. Instead of healing, there will be general support.
I shouldn't haved said linear, bad choice of words. GW2 questing does have some depth, but its still not as deep as a lot of people I've talked with thought it would be. Defend farm can llead to rebuilding events or sustaining the site, etc etc. Limited consequence, but no absolute permenance. For Rift, the talent/advancement was good, but very generic otherwise. Played exactly like WoW in starter zone, very linear, no open choice. Good class selection, played a Defiant Reaver to lvl 6, mix a wow rogue w fury warrior. SWTOR, voice work was cool, but combat was poor. Autoattack blaster fire looks wrong, very much wow clone. World/environments were good for the art style, but the gameplay was just not fun. Granted, each game I only had 15-20 min hands on time. TERA had best combat, Rift best char advancement, GW2 best questing, and I guess SWTOR had best production values, but no one game was amazingly better than the others.
i was in agreement with your thought even though im not a swtor fan boy or any of the games this tread is talking about but In the research on swtor there is no auto attack in the game. So hard to believe you played it.
Prob another occurance of bad choice of words, should have said basic attack, because those are there (the 1 key). And the Troopers basic attack looked/felt bad to me. Typing on phone while talking to people makes statements come out poorly. Also, I did play SWTOR the least of the 4, mainly 3-4 conversations and 2 small combat segments.
Combat isn't broken or bad by any means, I just didn't like it. SWTOR still looks/sounds great, and did have the best production values of any of the 4, and it's definitely not a bad game, just one where I didn't like the combat as much. Combat in TERA and GW2 both felt a bit more involved and active to me than SWTOR.
Granted, I'm not sure if I'll be playing any of the 4 when they launch, but thats more-so me wanting more modern/hard sci-fi settings rather than fantasy/sci-fantasy. I wish Secret World or Earthrise would have been playable, or more news of 40K:DMO being released.
Nothing against TERA, GW2, SWTOR or Rift as games, each one was overall a fun experience regardless of the setting, nothing felt mechanically/fundamentally broken or wrong with any of the games, and I'm sure each will have solid playerbases.
The big thing I'd say against them isn't even the games themselves, but their respective hype trains.
GW2's questing/story system is very good and the right logical advancement of the Public Quest idea, but I still think people are anticipating something much more than it actually is.
TERA's combat is good, but outside of PvP potential, may have a cool system wasted going against stale AI where it feels to zerg-y than action-y.
SWTOR's production values were unmatched, but combat felt awkward as a Trooper and it has grumpy SWG vets to content with for criticizms of the game.
Rift has a lot of good ideas in the rift events, and a good take on traditional character development, but the rest felt bland and generic.
And again, this is with limited hands-on time at a big show, so it's not a true evaluation of any, just personal impressions from each.
Lets Push Things Forward
I knew I would live to design games at age 7, issue 5 of Nintendo Power.
Support games with subs when you believe in their potential, even in spite of their flaws.
Oh and just as a side note i was super hyped about GW2 until i saw gameplay of it. It sounded a lot better in the blogs on there site than it looks when they showing it. The combat may be a blast like some of you said but I won't know that unless i try the game and same goes for all of you saying it is much more fun than other mmo's if you haven't tried it you have no idea if it is fun could look cool but suck.
You just contradicted yourself. You said,
to be honest tera and GW2 have not impressed me at all. I see nothing special about either of them. GW2 is a game i seriously think is going to disappoint a ton of people but that is just my opinion and all of you who are so excited for it good for ya but to me I think the systems you think are so great about it is what is going to make the game not be so good. THE DE system completley removes the need to group in an mmo which in itself is enough to turn me off of the game.
I also think it is funny how everyone who is in love with GW2 thinks no trinity is going to be so awesome It could actually suck we don't know we havne't played it yet. But the game still don't impress me at all. But it does impress a lot of people so it should do well just not a game i'm going to buy.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
GW2 has active dodging. We saw PLENTY of it in the gameplay videos. If a projectile does not hit your character model, it will be a miss. Of course with latency and all, this may be a problem, but it also assoctiated with Tera.
We have also seen active blocking. Skills like holding up your shield as long as you like. And yes, it utilzes the Havok physics engine to code where the blocking is actually effective. Flames will bend around the shield and what not.
That's disappointing. Not really interested in RPGs with active dodging or blocking. Takes a lot away from my character.
GW2 has active dodging. We saw PLENTY of it in the gameplay videos. If a projectile does not hit your character model, it will be a miss. Of course with latency and all, this may be a problem, but it also assoctiated with Tera.
We have also seen active blocking. Skills like holding up your shield as long as you like. And yes, it utilzes the Havok physics engine to code where the blocking is actually effective. Flames will bend around the shield and what not.
That's disappointing. Not really interested in RPGs with active dodging or blocking. Takes a lot away from my character.
having to use skill and actualy taking an active role in combat takes away from your character? Can you explain that a little further?
That's disappointing. Not really interested in RPGs with active dodging or blocking. Takes a lot away from my character.
What do you mean? That you actually need to click the right thing at the right time or what?
Dodging do actually take a little more skill from the player than standing in the same spot the entire combat but is that really a bad thing?
It doesn't take anything away from your character but it will be a little more difficult for the players. But player skill matters in all games, and it mattered a lot in GW. In fact I think it mattered more in GW, where gear didn't do much of anything.
So if you like GW it shouldn't be a problem. If you hated GW or want something easier you probably should take a look on Rift. Maybe TOR too, but GW2 and TERA which we are discussing here both take at least some basic player skill, you can't just make a single macro and surviving by pressing it all the time you are in a combat. The same thing would get you pretty far in games like Wow and EQ2.
This is one of the things that makes both GW2 and TERA more interesting in my book. My problem with TERA is that it uses the same old boring AI and holy triad as other MMOs in a otherwise new thinking combat system but I still think it will be interesting to try it out.
That's disappointing. Not really interested in RPGs with active dodging or blocking. Takes a lot away from my character.
What do you mean? That you actually need to click the right thing at the right time or what?
Dodging do actually take a little more skill from the player than standing in the same spot the entire combat but is that really a bad thing?
It doesn't take anything away from your character but it will be a little more difficult for the players. But player skill matters in all games, and it mattered a lot in GW. In fact I think it mattered more in GW, where gear didn't do much of anything.
So if you like GW it shouldn't be a problem. If you hated GW or want something easier you probably should take a look on Rift. Maybe TOR too, but GW2 and TERA which we are discussing here both take at least some basic player skill, you can't just make a single macro and surviving by pressing it all the time you are in a combat. The same thing would get you pretty far in games like Wow and EQ2.
This is one of the things that makes both GW2 and TERA more interesting in my book. My problem with TERA is that it uses the same old boring AI and holy triad as other MMOs in a otherwise new thinking combat system but I still think it will be interesting to try it out.
My biggest problem with these "Skill"based games is that it promotes one tactic.
Look to FPS games, in halo all people would do is grap the energy sword and or shotgun/rocket launcher and just hide. That does not take skill, My problem with GW2 rolling effect is that everyone going to do nothing but roll, that does not take skill it takes button mashing. Games like WoW and EQ2 you don't have to worry about that. I have never macro'ed in any of the games I played and I am just as good as the guy next to me.
Turned first video off as it was scripted.The second video i have seen before it is old.What i didn't like in second video is the appearance to make your player over powered,to easily take on thta many mobs is ridiculous,especially solo.I also noticed that long time horrible animations that Korean games have,that female players runs choppy and hunched over,why on earth Koreans continue to use that hunched over stance is beyond me,it looks awful.
What i want out of TERA is tactical,thinking,a skilled combat system,like i said being able to easily solo that many mobs,means it is easy mode,i need challenging or forget it.I am stil lwatching this game,but being it is Korean,i don't have a lot of hope for it,i wasn't too big on Lineage either,although it was ok.I really am not interested in PVP for a rpg,it does not work,i hope TERA has some PVE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There seems to be no comparison. The TERA graphics are just not at the same level. The gameplay for Guild Wars 2 looks exciting and fun right from the beginning.
There was no voice and immersive ambient sounds in the TERA videos like you find in the Guild Wars 2 video above.
There are no dynamic and persisent, world changing events in TERA.
There are no dialogue options and personality reflections involved in TERA at all.
My biggest problem with these "Skill"based games is that it promotes one tactic.
Look to FPS games, in halo all people would do is grap the energy sword and or shotgun/rocket launcher and just hide. That does not take skill, My problem with GW2 rolling effect is that everyone going to do nothing but roll, that does not take skill it takes button mashing. Games like WoW and EQ2 you don't have to worry about that. I have never macro'ed in any of the games I played and I am just as good as the guy next to me.
Roll all you want, I will shoot you with my ranger and have my pet to distract you then.
Something like rolling is not the same as camping in a FPS game (or in paintball). It is defensive and while you are doing it you can't actually do any damage. It is something you use when you get a meteor shower at you or similar really bad time, not the entire combat.
You can not win by dodging and blocking, you win by making damage. You can however win by camping even if campers rarely win in the long run, people tend to figure them out pretty fast and then they are easy to take out.
Played airsoft for a few years, we always took out the campers fast and rarely with any problem. It is the same with everyone who always uses a single thing as their tactics.
The hard thing is not to roll but knowing when to use and when not to use it. Winners use it at "oh, sh*t" moments and not otherwise since it lowers your DPS potential and people do figure out when to hit you just as you get up.
The beta videos from PAX and gamescon looked fine at least, But if people tend to dodge 99% of the time and it actually works ANET then will put a timer on it, if someone over uses a tactic ANET usually fix it quick, we saw that in GW.
I'll wait to decide if I think it is potentially epic or not based on gameplay impressions & reviews by actual players & not just videos. It may well have an epic-grind to go with it's epic gameplay if it follows the norm of eastern developed titles and that will render it an epic fail. Time will tell.
Wait to release is always the best way to go with mmo. GW2 looks like it could be fun, but we are talking retail purchase in late 2011-early 2012.
My biggest problem with these "Skill"based games is that it promotes one tactic.
Look to FPS games, in halo all people would do is grap the energy sword and or shotgun/rocket launcher and just hide. That does not take skill, My problem with GW2 rolling effect is that everyone going to do nothing but roll, that does not take skill it takes button mashing. Games like WoW and EQ2 you don't have to worry about that. I have never macro'ed in any of the games I played and I am just as good as the guy next to me.
Rolling consumes energy like a skill/spell does. In fact in consumes ten percent or so of your energy every time you roll. If you dodge out of the way too much, you don't have enough energy to deal damage or protect yourself in other ways. There's also a timing and positioning issue.
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
I really think comparing GW2 to other MMO to be out( Tera, rift, Swtor) AND stating a result on that comparison atm should wait until the last complemantary informations are out about GW2.
Every game present their most important and "to be proud of" features from the developpers. That's cool and I love marketing strategy that goes that way compared to blizzard ancient strategy(5-8 years ago?) that consisted at not telling anything about a game until 2-3 months before it's release.
Let's see the most "be proud" of features I know, I surely don't know all the feature that add value to one game because I don't have knowledge about it yet but let's do a listing.
Rift: - Standard MMO gameplay style, target and bash/heal, some reactionnary and combo skills.
- Very deep character developpement system based on one part on soul and cross classes possibilities.(There will be around 270 combinations of souls at launch.)
- Rift that opens randomly that create dynamix events anywhere in the open world that alterate a zone and give reward to a player/group if completed or take out NPC or even quest givers if not.
Tera: - New gameplay style target and bash/heal, active dodge and positionnary involved combat.
- Politics system that give barons through elections or PvP involvment and ultimately a king is elected for the 3 capital, the king can modify taxes, mobs respawn rate in their zone.
SWTOR: - Standard MMO gameplay style target and bash/heal.
- Large story content, for each class different story should be impleted as a Bioware game.
GW2: - New gameplay style target and bash, active dodge. No healing dedicated class, every class must depend on itself and the support skills their party mate bring with them.
- PvE world and leveling through dynamic events, events in chain are linked and results in beginning event can change how the rest of the events are. (bunkers and mortars in shatterer fight must be repaired in previous events.
- "Competitive" PvP separated from the PvE world, characters for GvG ficht are created just for that.
- Strategic (tactical?) choice of skills,10 skills usable at a time: 5skills depends on the weapon equipped and the stance/attunement the character is in and the 6-10 skills are general ones, one healing skill as 6 and one elite at 10. Traits are equippable to enhance a choice of skills.
- Almost forgot Personnal story instanced content. Kind of dynamic in fact where you make choice that will change your instanced neighboor (ie: A fire is spreading you must choose between an orphanage and a hospital which you wanna help resulting in having a building with people that are thankful in one side and the rest of a burned building and the ashes that goes with it).
So I probably have more informations on Guild wars 2 compared to the other games but it's just that I didn't find that much on the others. Tera seems like a korean grinding game and will surely need a lot of time to take part in the politic system(and I kinda like those game, I'm someone that liked Aion and some others time consuming but fun to play game) and I was not so thrilled after seing some instance footage where the cleric just stand there and aim his mate to heal him while this one just bash mobs and sometime dodge a big attack coming.
I'm actually waiting to see the others classes unique "feature", the ranger manage pets, the warrior have stances and adrenaline "burst", the elementalist have 4 elementals attunements and the necro can activate a death shroud state where he leaves his body and activate a spectral form. There is still 4 classes to be annonced and the customization level seems not bad. Let's say you are an elementalist and have a 2h staff and a dagger/focus quick sets you'll be able to choose your panel of skills for a situation and be able to switch to another if you need to. Your staff water/air attunements skill contains a lots of control(stun, knockdown, snares, roots) and some support(healing rain) while your dagger/focus will have a lot of AoE damaging spell overtime(multiple ways to get a wall of fire, Aoe freezing zone, geyser).
At the end of the day what someone is looking for in a game is to have fun and that can be done in a lot a ways in a lot of differents games but I really think GW2 is going the right way in trying some new things in term of gameplay for MMO and hope it'll result in a lot of people having a lot of fun.
- Housing: ability to buy buildings in cities to host guild(numerous guild can be affiliated with the same building).
And this differs from EQ2s guildhouses how? It seems like they are instanced (based on what you said) so is this new?
Can you build rooms or anything in them? Otherwise I think it should be off your list, GW2 have both houses and guildhouses, TOR have spaceships as houses and I assume Rift have something similar too. Housing is something most modern games have.
Comments
i was in agreement with your thought even though im not a swtor fan boy or any of the games this tread is talking about but In the research on swtor there is no auto attack in the game. So hard to believe you played it.
I dont know the gameplay or size of the field but damn, Tera certainly has the femal toons much better than GW2
Oh and just as a side note i was super hyped about GW2 until i saw gameplay of it. It sounded a lot better in the blogs on there site than it looks when they showing it. The combat may be a blast like some of you said but I won't know that unless i try the game and same goes for all of you saying it is much more fun than other mmo's if you haven't tried it you have no idea if it is fun could look cool but suck.
I think a trial is necessary in all cases. But I too was hyped for GW2, saw a video, was disheartened, saw another video and became some what hyped again. The new video showed how striking your opponent from the side or behind dealt extra damage.
If GW2 becomes a completely persistent world rather than the lobby/group method GW1 had, I think the zero subscription fee alone is worth buying it.
Tera on the other hand, looks like it could be amazing. But the developers need to make sure storyline is pushed heavily otherwise it'll seem like we're just playing in a sandbox full of monsters. It'll be tough but it seems to me like Tera has been one of the bigger MMORPGs in the spending and development areas lately.
QFT
Funny you mentioned that. The writing team sat down with "Bow Down To Us" formally known as "For The Lore" and made a podcast. You can check it out here: http://bowdowntous.com/index.php/podcasts/comments/episode_005_en_masse_tera_interview
1/3 of the EnMass team is composed of writers.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Though I am getting Tera for a test, I still put my vote on GW2 being the better game.
Mainly for one reason... Unpredictability.
If I play an MMO long enough, I can log into a game and bet money I know where each Merchant/NPC is. I would never make that bet with GW2. When the brood mother came out, one of the gameplay clips shows NPC's running all over the place. And we haven't even begun to see village raids. NPC's moving out to camp somewhere else? I know what I picture in my head is too good for GW2, but if they even capture a fraction of that "alive and breathing" feeling, then I'm sold.
Also those who say Tera's animations are better clearly are not watching carefully. They may be smooth, but the coding/timing behind the animations are aweful. The lancer charging was horrible. The actually turning of the character is almost 2d-ish.
Tera has nice paced combat, but faster is simply faster. GW2 has cross class combos, which may not be entirely new, still breaks from the mold. Any projectiles flying through a flame will be turned into a fiery projectile. Any person running through a fog of disease and poison will cast a small aura of such toxic.
Skin textures look great in Tera, whereas they pretty much suck in GW2. GW2 also has an annoying haze around the currently selected target.
While all things are subject to change, GW2 is still the better game price for price. Perhaps just plain better.
My vote will go to tera for this reason.
I would argue that more complex raid encounters would be possible in this game given that the combat is more dynamic, everyone can dodge everything. This means two things.
1) Healing doesn't need to be as spam intensive because people have the ability to avoid all damage, all the time. The only person who is going to be somewhat stationary is the Lancer class and you wont need to spam stackable HoTs, high single target heals and instant heals on your tank for the next 10 minutes because he isn't just sitting there absorbing damage. He can block it, he can avoid it, he's not reliant on you putting out 20k healing per 4 seconds. Hell, the other tank class in the game is designed to NOT get hit. There is actually an evasion tank designed from the ground up into the game.
2) Bosses are allowed a lot more unique skill sets and a lot more dangerous abilities because of this same reason. Because people can dodge, because people can block, because people can body block other people, the devs don't have to worry as much about managing the bosses DPS so as to outstrip your heals. When you can't avoid anything a parties survival is entirely dependent on whether or not the healer can heal more than the enemies can damage, and encounters have to be balanced around this. When you can avoid everything, they could very well make difficult raid encounters where bosses have extremely high damaging skills that you aren't meant to heal through because they are avoidable by everyone, or they could implement situations where an ability would more or less kill everyone except the Lancer using Shield Block, meaning that people would have to hide behind the Lancer to not die.
Other games rely heavly on RNG rolls, In tera I will be able to by-pass that roll of the dice if I'm good enough.
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Just shut up all.We all know everyone is super hyped about new awesome game watched on youtube or played at game conventions for 10-30mins and in the end people start post shit on forums how much it sucked.Wait the game to be realised than judge.
I think you may be uninformed with GW2 (no offense intended.)
GW2 has active dodging. We saw PLENTY of it in the gameplay videos. If a projectile does not hit your character model, it will be a miss. Of course with latency and all, this may be a problem, but it also assoctiated with Tera.
We have also seen active blocking. Skills like holding up your shield as long as you like. And yes, it utilzes the Havok physics engine to code where the blocking is actually effective. Flames will bend around the shield and what not.
Also, it almost seems like you hate games that rely on ONE healer. Everything you said about the boss, is exactly what the GW2 team are trying to improve on. They specifically took out the healer class, so that, not only the boss battles, but the ENTIRE game is balanced around having a balanced team. You speak of everyone being able to survive on their own in Tera, well that is in GW2. Each class is designed to have a pool of healing/self-sustaining skills.
I do see one problem with your logic. You claim that the game is NOT balanced around the healer. Which could be a good thing, but think of it this way...
A group of 5 go exploring. The game is balanced around the 5 of them being able to dodge or whatever (as you claim.) So this is a pretty equal match. The game is not too easy, not too hard. Each class can survive through dodging and blocking, so the game notes this. Well what happens when you DO get a good healer. Suddenly all of this dodging if useless, as a healer can pretty much cover anything dodging was supposed to nullify. That's where your point falls apart. The game IS balanced around having a healer. It has to be, otherwise a healer would be overpowered.
GW2 on the hand, does not need to be balanced around having a healer. Because there are no dedicated healers. Not a single class (as stated by the devs) will be built upon healing. Instead of healing, there will be general support.
Prob another occurance of bad choice of words, should have said basic attack, because those are there (the 1 key). And the Troopers basic attack looked/felt bad to me. Typing on phone while talking to people makes statements come out poorly. Also, I did play SWTOR the least of the 4, mainly 3-4 conversations and 2 small combat segments.
Combat isn't broken or bad by any means, I just didn't like it. SWTOR still looks/sounds great, and did have the best production values of any of the 4, and it's definitely not a bad game, just one where I didn't like the combat as much. Combat in TERA and GW2 both felt a bit more involved and active to me than SWTOR.
Granted, I'm not sure if I'll be playing any of the 4 when they launch, but thats more-so me wanting more modern/hard sci-fi settings rather than fantasy/sci-fantasy. I wish Secret World or Earthrise would have been playable, or more news of 40K:DMO being released.
Nothing against TERA, GW2, SWTOR or Rift as games, each one was overall a fun experience regardless of the setting, nothing felt mechanically/fundamentally broken or wrong with any of the games, and I'm sure each will have solid playerbases.
The big thing I'd say against them isn't even the games themselves, but their respective hype trains.
GW2's questing/story system is very good and the right logical advancement of the Public Quest idea, but I still think people are anticipating something much more than it actually is.
TERA's combat is good, but outside of PvP potential, may have a cool system wasted going against stale AI where it feels to zerg-y than action-y.
SWTOR's production values were unmatched, but combat felt awkward as a Trooper and it has grumpy SWG vets to content with for criticizms of the game.
Rift has a lot of good ideas in the rift events, and a good take on traditional character development, but the rest felt bland and generic.
And again, this is with limited hands-on time at a big show, so it's not a true evaluation of any, just personal impressions from each.
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You just contradicted yourself. You said,
to be honest tera and GW2 have not impressed me at all. I see nothing special about either of them. GW2 is a game i seriously think is going to disappoint a ton of people but that is just my opinion and all of you who are so excited for it good for ya but to me I think the systems you think are so great about it is what is going to make the game not be so good. THE DE system completley removes the need to group in an mmo which in itself is enough to turn me off of the game.
I also think it is funny how everyone who is in love with GW2 thinks no trinity is going to be so awesome It could actually suck we don't know we havne't played it yet. But the game still don't impress me at all. But it does impress a lot of people so it should do well just not a game i'm going to buy.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
That's disappointing. Not really interested in RPGs with active dodging or blocking. Takes a lot away from my character.
having to use skill and actualy taking an active role in combat takes away from your character? Can you explain that a little further?
What do you mean? That you actually need to click the right thing at the right time or what?
Dodging do actually take a little more skill from the player than standing in the same spot the entire combat but is that really a bad thing?
It doesn't take anything away from your character but it will be a little more difficult for the players. But player skill matters in all games, and it mattered a lot in GW. In fact I think it mattered more in GW, where gear didn't do much of anything.
So if you like GW it shouldn't be a problem. If you hated GW or want something easier you probably should take a look on Rift. Maybe TOR too, but GW2 and TERA which we are discussing here both take at least some basic player skill, you can't just make a single macro and surviving by pressing it all the time you are in a combat. The same thing would get you pretty far in games like Wow and EQ2.
This is one of the things that makes both GW2 and TERA more interesting in my book. My problem with TERA is that it uses the same old boring AI and holy triad as other MMOs in a otherwise new thinking combat system but I still think it will be interesting to try it out.
My biggest problem with these "Skill"based games is that it promotes one tactic.
Look to FPS games, in halo all people would do is grap the energy sword and or shotgun/rocket launcher and just hide. That does not take skill, My problem with GW2 rolling effect is that everyone going to do nothing but roll, that does not take skill it takes button mashing. Games like WoW and EQ2 you don't have to worry about that. I have never macro'ed in any of the games I played and I am just as good as the guy next to me.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Turned first video off as it was scripted.The second video i have seen before it is old.What i didn't like in second video is the appearance to make your player over powered,to easily take on thta many mobs is ridiculous,especially solo.I also noticed that long time horrible animations that Korean games have,that female players runs choppy and hunched over,why on earth Koreans continue to use that hunched over stance is beyond me,it looks awful.
What i want out of TERA is tactical,thinking,a skilled combat system,like i said being able to easily solo that many mobs,means it is easy mode,i need challenging or forget it.I am stil lwatching this game,but being it is Korean,i don't have a lot of hope for it,i wasn't too big on Lineage either,although it was ok.I really am not interested in PVP for a rpg,it does not work,i hope TERA has some PVE.
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After watching your videos and comparing them to a Guild Wars 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE5ZE4SebTk&feature=player_embedded
There seems to be no comparison. The TERA graphics are just not at the same level. The gameplay for Guild Wars 2 looks exciting and fun right from the beginning.
There was no voice and immersive ambient sounds in the TERA videos like you find in the Guild Wars 2 video above.
There are no dynamic and persisent, world changing events in TERA.
There are no dialogue options and personality reflections involved in TERA at all.
There is grind in TERA? /thread
Guild Wars 2!
Roll all you want, I will shoot you with my ranger and have my pet to distract you then.
Something like rolling is not the same as camping in a FPS game (or in paintball). It is defensive and while you are doing it you can't actually do any damage. It is something you use when you get a meteor shower at you or similar really bad time, not the entire combat.
You can not win by dodging and blocking, you win by making damage. You can however win by camping even if campers rarely win in the long run, people tend to figure them out pretty fast and then they are easy to take out.
Played airsoft for a few years, we always took out the campers fast and rarely with any problem. It is the same with everyone who always uses a single thing as their tactics.
The hard thing is not to roll but knowing when to use and when not to use it. Winners use it at "oh, sh*t" moments and not otherwise since it lowers your DPS potential and people do figure out when to hit you just as you get up.
The beta videos from PAX and gamescon looked fine at least, But if people tend to dodge 99% of the time and it actually works ANET then will put a timer on it, if someone over uses a tactic ANET usually fix it quick, we saw that in GW.
Wait to release is always the best way to go with mmo. GW2 looks like it could be fun, but we are talking retail purchase in late 2011-early 2012.The game will not release in 2012 nor in late 2011
"It has potential"
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Rolling consumes energy like a skill/spell does. In fact in consumes ten percent or so of your energy every time you roll. If you dodge out of the way too much, you don't have enough energy to deal damage or protect yourself in other ways. There's also a timing and positioning issue.
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I really think comparing GW2 to other MMO to be out( Tera, rift, Swtor) AND stating a result on that comparison atm should wait until the last complemantary informations are out about GW2.
Every game present their most important and "to be proud of" features from the developpers. That's cool and I love marketing strategy that goes that way compared to blizzard ancient strategy(5-8 years ago?) that consisted at not telling anything about a game until 2-3 months before it's release.
Let's see the most "be proud" of features I know, I surely don't know all the feature that add value to one game because I don't have knowledge about it yet but let's do a listing.
Rift: - Standard MMO gameplay style, target and bash/heal, some reactionnary and combo skills.
- Very deep character developpement system based on one part on soul and cross classes possibilities.(There will be around 270 combinations of souls at launch.)
- Rift that opens randomly that create dynamix events anywhere in the open world that alterate a zone and give reward to a player/group if completed or take out NPC or even quest givers if not.
Tera: - New gameplay style target and bash/heal, active dodge and positionnary involved combat.
- Politics system that give barons through elections or PvP involvment and ultimately a king is elected for the 3 capital, the king can modify taxes, mobs respawn rate in their zone.
SWTOR: - Standard MMO gameplay style target and bash/heal.
- Large story content, for each class different story should be impleted as a Bioware game.
GW2: - New gameplay style target and bash, active dodge. No healing dedicated class, every class must depend on itself and the support skills their party mate bring with them.
- PvE world and leveling through dynamic events, events in chain are linked and results in beginning event can change how the rest of the events are. (bunkers and mortars in shatterer fight must be repaired in previous events.
- "Competitive" PvP separated from the PvE world, characters for GvG ficht are created just for that.
- Strategic (tactical?) choice of skills,10 skills usable at a time: 5skills depends on the weapon equipped and the stance/attunement the character is in and the 6-10 skills are general ones, one healing skill as 6 and one elite at 10. Traits are equippable to enhance a choice of skills.
- Almost forgot Personnal story instanced content. Kind of dynamic in fact where you make choice that will change your instanced neighboor (ie: A fire is spreading you must choose between an orphanage and a hospital which you wanna help resulting in having a building with people that are thankful in one side and the rest of a burned building and the ashes that goes with it).
So I probably have more informations on Guild wars 2 compared to the other games but it's just that I didn't find that much on the others. Tera seems like a korean grinding game and will surely need a lot of time to take part in the politic system(and I kinda like those game, I'm someone that liked Aion and some others time consuming but fun to play game) and I was not so thrilled after seing some instance footage where the cleric just stand there and aim his mate to heal him while this one just bash mobs and sometime dodge a big attack coming.
I'm actually waiting to see the others classes unique "feature", the ranger manage pets, the warrior have stances and adrenaline "burst", the elementalist have 4 elementals attunements and the necro can activate a death shroud state where he leaves his body and activate a spectral form. There is still 4 classes to be annonced and the customization level seems not bad. Let's say you are an elementalist and have a 2h staff and a dagger/focus quick sets you'll be able to choose your panel of skills for a situation and be able to switch to another if you need to. Your staff water/air attunements skill contains a lots of control(stun, knockdown, snares, roots) and some support(healing rain) while your dagger/focus will have a lot of AoE damaging spell overtime(multiple ways to get a wall of fire, Aoe freezing zone, geyser).
At the end of the day what someone is looking for in a game is to have fun and that can be done in a lot a ways in a lot of differents games but I really think GW2 is going the right way in trying some new things in term of gameplay for MMO and hope it'll result in a lot of people having a lot of fun.
And this differs from EQ2s guildhouses how? It seems like they are instanced (based on what you said) so is this new?
Can you build rooms or anything in them? Otherwise I think it should be off your list, GW2 have both houses and guildhouses, TOR have spaceships as houses and I assume Rift have something similar too. Housing is something most modern games have.
Yeah it's not new but one of the point that the dev promoted in an interview but I realize that I should remove it.
And I almost forgot dynamic personnal instanced story content for GW2 I'm really bad at making list...