For me quest stacker mmos can be extremely tedious and boring when i attempt to sit through an extended play session (more than two hours).
With Lotro's switch to F2p I can play 15-30 minutes at a time and the game doesnt get tedious and I don't feel like im wasting my sub money on a game I don't play.
I'm already looking into adding another character slot, Bag and maybe a early quest zone sine ill be low level for around the first 6-8 months.
Great move by Turbine and I'm glad someone understands how to do F2p.
WSIMike - You don't have to pay twice for the content. You can access it by paying the subscription fee, which is the exact same thing you would have had to do prior to the F2P launch. The other option is to pay once to permanently unlock it, and not pay the sub fee. Either way, you're able to log in and create characters and play those characters for free.
"Free to play" does not necessarily equal "Free to access every piece of content ever". How do you expect them to make money to pay their staff, keep the servers online, and, y'know, profit? The game is free to play, you can't really debate that. There is no point at which they will remove your ability to log in and play unless you give them money. The main difference is now you can either buy quest packs as you need them, or pay the subscription fee and get unrestricted access.
Really, it's win-win for everyone who isn't walking around with a massive sense of entitlement and a complete inability to comprehend the nature of business.
I am being told to pay for it twice. I paid them already once... back when I bought the original game. That purchase bought all the content on the disc. They are now telling me I have to pay for it a second time if I want to start or complete any of it.
That is not "F2P". That is being double-dipped.
And if paying a sub fee is the alternate "cost of entry" to unlock the content I already paid for... well then that's not very much a "free to play" option either is it?
Either way I'm being told I have to pay twice to access content I already paid for.
Like I said... patched in content like Forochel or Evendim, that came with updates after the initial purchase, fine. Expansions I didn't already purchase... fine. But content they have already gotten my money for once? No way.
They can spin it any which way they want and insist it's F2P 'til the cows come home. At the end of the day, I'm being required to re-purchase content I already paid for. That is double-dipping, plain and simple.
I didn't ask them to go F2P. They made that choice for themselves. I'm being told that content I already paid for - and I'm actually part way through in some cases - now has to be unlocked by paying for it *again* before I can complete it.
BS.
They double-dipped on DDO too, but that seems to be doing pretty well. People who bought DDO years ago and came back as Premium players had to re-purchase content they had before, like STK, Catacombs, 3BC, Delera's, etc...
WSIMike - You don't have to pay twice for the content. You can access it by paying the subscription fee, which is the exact same thing you would have had to do prior to the F2P launch. The other option is to pay once to permanently unlock it, and not pay the sub fee. Either way, you're able to log in and create characters and play those characters for free.
"Free to play" does not necessarily equal "Free to access every piece of content ever". How do you expect them to make money to pay their staff, keep the servers online, and, y'know, profit? The game is free to play, you can't really debate that. There is no point at which they will remove your ability to log in and play unless you give them money. The main difference is now you can either buy quest packs as you need them, or pay the subscription fee and get unrestricted access.
Really, it's win-win for everyone who isn't walking around with a massive sense of entitlement and a complete inability to comprehend the nature of business.
Before it went free to play you had to subscribe to get acess to those quests its the same thing now. If you sign up for the 15$ a month you will once again have the option to play that content just like before. They have simply added another way for you to acess it and nothing else.
As I have stated elsewhere the term "free to play" is it's own worse enemy.
I like DDO and LOTRO and for that matter EQ2X's models...but not because they are totally free.
I prefer the term: Free to Access. I pay for things: quests, slots, etc: and I get to keep them. I can roam away from LOTRO and when I am ready to come back everything I paid for I still own.
The opposite of course is Pay to Access. I played WoW for quite some time, but all that money spent gives me no access. I don't get to keep anything unless I pay to access it.
So while I don't pretend it's for everyone: I prefer Free to Access games. I don't think they're free. I intend to spend small amounts of money. And whatever I do spend my money I can keep and access whenever I want.
This is works for me. But this model should not be confused with a mythical totally free model.
I am being told to pay for it twice. I paid them already once... back when I bought the original game. That purchase bought all the content on the disc. They are now telling me I have to pay for it a second time if I want to start or complete any of it.
That is not "F2P". That is being double-dipped.
And if paying a sub fee is the alternate "cost of entry" to unlock the content I already paid for... well then that's not very much a "free to play" option either is it?
I think you're misunderstanding what Turbine has done with this new payment model. They didn't take away the normal $15 per month subscription plan. They simply added an alternative payment plan.
Nothing has changed for someone like you with the Free 2 Play launch. If you want access to the game you paid for before the F2P launch you would have had to pay per month, just like now.
The only thing that has changed is now there is the option to pay ala cart instead of a subscription cost each month. Most people think choices are a good thing, except for MMO players it seems.
Either way I'm being told I have to pay twice to access content I already paid for.
Unless you purchase the lifetime subscription you always had to pay a subscription fee to access the game, nothing has changed there.
Like I said... patched in content like Forochel or Evendim, that came with updates after the initial purchase, fine. Expansions I didn't already purchase... fine. But content they have already gotten my money for once? No way.
They can spin it any which way they want and insist it's F2P 'til the cows come home. At the end of the day, I'm being required to re-purchase content I already paid for. That is double-dipping, plain and simple.
Just to reiterate, the normal $15 per month payment model has not changed, they added a NEW F2P ala carte payment model to the game.
I didn't ask them to go F2P. They made that choice for themselves. I'm being told that content I already paid for - and I'm actually part way through in some cases - now has to be unlocked by paying for it *again* before I can complete it.
BS.
Not really, you just have to understand how the payment model works. The F2P access is for new players who have never purchased the game or for people who may not plan on playing it frequently. If you're playing the game every day or at least a few times a week it would probably be a better idea to go ahead and subscribe.
Again it's just about providing choices to players. There's nothing stopping you from subscribing, if you want to play for free, however, you have to deal with the limitations that come with that payment model.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
They double-dipped on DDO too, but that seems to be doing pretty well. People who bought DDO years ago and came back as Premium players had to re-purchase content they had before, like STK, Catacombs, 3BC, Delera's, etc...
They didn't double-dip on DDO either. DDO players could continue to pay their monthly subscription after going "F2P" (like they did) and still have access to all content they had before.
Complaining is fun, but maybe it should be focused on things worth copmplaining about, otherwise it'll lose its power...
This may be a worthwhile complaint for a pure f2p, but how many times do we have to say that you can get to 50 adequately without quest packs, or that you can get TP points while you play for free? If people like the game so much that they start spending big bucks, they can *gasp* cap their spending by getting a VIP account. The smart ones anyway. What is it with people going crazy when you give them more choices?
Free-to-play means pure F2P. If Turbine would advertise this as -limited-free-to-play, then I bet half of the complaints would be discarded. So yeah, I agree with this "free-to-play" - its not a reasonable statement. If you had access to all levels, limited perhaps to some dungeons (rest being reserved for paying customers), and maybe slower leveling, and maybe restricted to epic weapons, then I would call that a reasonable clause to call it F2P. As it stands now, it is on a level of a trial or at best a very limited F2P game.
I'd say they have consistanly astro-turfed the Lore in the game over the past couple years. It was (IMO) pretty good at the beggining of SOA ...with some concessions in order to convert to game format...but as more time went on, they strayed further and further afield...till at this point (IMO) they've abandoned even the pretense of sticking with the lore...daemon goats and haunted hobbit holes indeed.
As far as F2P, I'd say the advertising is really a bit misleading. Lets call it what it is.... a Cash Shop RMT model. I can't imagine anyone willing to grind enough to avoid the payment option. Furthermore you DEFINATELY have to pay in order to reach top level (65) in the game...as I believe it's hard-coded that you can't advance past 50 without at least buying the MOM expansion content. Not complaining that it's in anyway unfair for the company to require that....but it is pretty deceptive to try to market is as never having to pay anything.
I'd also say it's innacurate to say that no boosts or buffs are available in the shop and that play is completely "fair" between paying and non-paying subscribers. Tome's and potions etc, along with Traits and all that are EXACTLY that...They are buffs and in some cases significant play advantages.... and for all practical purposes...you WILL have to pay for them in order to be on the same footing ability wise with a paying player that has them. Heck, I think even a VIP (subscriber) wouldn't be on the same footing as a player spending significant amounts of money in the cash shop for consumables, Tomes, etc....although we'd be alot closer then a non-playing player was...and we do get a certain monthly alotment of TP's from our subscription.
Bottom line....it's a CASH SHOP model...not all that significantly different from the Cash Shops in many other F2P games....where you can purchase a WIDE VARIETY of things...including content, cosmetics, classes, consumables, exp boosts and PERMANENT and Temporary Stat Boosters. It is what it is....It's not as over the top with that as some F2P games...but it is there. So lets not pretend otherwise. Either you're ok with it...or your not....or (like me) your not happy about it but you are willing to tolerate it for now as long as they don't try to push it too much.
I'd also say it's innacurate to say that no boosts or buffs are available in the shop and that play is completely "fair" between paying and non-paying subscribers. Tome's and potions etc, along with Traits and all that are EXACTLY that...They are buffs and in some cases significant play advantages.... and for all practical purposes...you WILL have to pay for them in order to be on the same footing ability wise with a paying player that has them. Heck, I think even a VIP (subscriber) wouldn't be on the same footing as a player spending significant amounts of money in the cash shop for consumables, Tomes, etc....although we'd be alot closer then a non-playing player was...and we do get a certain monthly alotment of TP's from our subscription.
Or a player can buy/make them in game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
That is not free to play game. That is a mearly extended demo version - up to the 20 lvls.
I love how turbine hyped to hell this so called free to play launch of the game...
Reposting other erroneous posted information does not make it correct.
You can get Turbine points in game, therefore you can unlock things without spending money.
Like all f2p games it will take you much longer to earn TPs to unlock things in game then to just spend the money. So if you went "Sweet f2p now I can be a cheapskate and have everything I want when I want it YIPPIE" and then logged in and rushed up to level 20 as fast as you could, then yes you would of hit a stall point.
I love how all of the people who think life will give them everything they want for free have incorrect information and whine about having to put some work in if they want to not pay money. The sooner you wake up and realize how the world works, and it is not out to service you and give you everything you ever desired for no work, the happier your life will be.
So many assumptions going on in this forum. The key necessary factor to this discussion that none of you really have concrete knowledge of is the rate at which in-game Turbine Points can be accumulated. The haters are assuming that rate will be very slow. The lovers are assuming that rate will be "adequate." The truth is, none of you know. Stop assuming and wait to see for sure.
There ARE F2P games out that tthat have a completely free, adequately fast progression system. For example, League of Legends. Although not an MMORPG, it is an MMO and follows a similar business model. You can reach max level (30), and buy all the in game champions + runes you would like without spending a dime. It may take 5-10 games (a LoL game is essentially a 20-60 minute 3v3 or 5v5 pvp match using various champions with various abilities) to earn enough "Influence Points" to buy a new champion (whose prices vary), but playing those games is the majority of the fun anyway. It doesn't feel like slow, boring in game work. I have yet to spend a dime on the game and have loved every minute.
Then on the other hand, there ARE games like the aforementioned DDO, whose in game system is too agonizingly slow to actually progress through without spending real money.
TLDR: just because they're going with this business model doesn't mean in game progression will be too slow, but nor does it guarantee it will be suitable enough for most player. The rate you acquire in game Turbine points can VARY according to the developer's desire. Until you test Turbine's implementation of this model, don't argue about its effect. Argue about the philosophical merits of this business model if you like, but you simply have no factual basis to make any judgements about LOTRO's spefic version.
League of Legends has the best f2p model that i've ever seen. The game is so great that i have played it since the very first beta without even noticing that i am in a disadvantage or NEED to pay in order to progress. On the other hand, the pricing system is entierly based around cosmetic skins - no content lock, no nothing. I gladly give my support to such companies.
Unfortunately here there is no such greatness. But there is the fact that each site i visit has this great logo boldy saying ''LOTR IS FREEEE'' - no its not.
SnarlingWolf, your comment is both false and insulting.
1st- bying something with the reward turbine points is almost imposible because of the costs/rewards ratio. The ammount of time to spent in order to even unlock something small like extra trait slot is enormous. Several months maybe..
2nd- There are f2p games and masked f2p games. Try LOL for example - not a single dime required for a FULL enjoyment. So yes, there is a free launch.
3rd - a random internet punk talks to me about real life, work and how it is all connected. Kid, im pretty sure i have seen more of this life that you will ever do so spare me your crap.
I'd also say it's innacurate to say that no boosts or buffs are available in the shop and that play is completely "fair" between paying and non-paying subscribers. Tome's and potions etc, along with Traits and all that are EXACTLY that...They are buffs and in some cases significant play advantages.... and for all practical purposes...you WILL have to pay for them in order to be on the same footing ability wise with a paying player that has them. Heck, I think even a VIP (subscriber) wouldn't be on the same footing as a player spending significant amounts of money in the cash shop for consumables, Tomes, etc....although we'd be alot closer then a non-playing player was...and we do get a certain monthly alotment of TP's from our subscription.
Or a player can buy/make them in game.
1) Stat Tomes are NOT craftable (unless I am miss-reading something). They ARE available as Very Rare world drops. Meaning your odds of getting them are about the same as the Cubs winning the World Series... It does happen, but not in alot of peoples life-times.
2) Potions ARE craftable.... but it requires a significant amount of work gathering materials to do so, as well as leveling the skill to do so.
How is this functionaly different from the ability to purchase an Ace in black-jack for $.50 cents whenever you want? Or purchase an extra 5 manna in Magic the Gathering for $1.00 WHENEVER you want it?
Yes...aside from PvMP players in LOTRO are NOT DIRECTLY competing against each other... so not being on an equal footing with some-one making RMT purchases may not matter as much.
However, the article suggested that thier was no difference from an effectiveness/ability standpoint from some-one who pays to some-one who doesn't. That statement is GROSSLY inaccurate.
Furthermore....players effectiness/ability DOES matter to other players experience even in games where there is no DIRECT competition betweem players. Designers base the difficulty of the content they design on thier expectations of what the average player doing that content has in terms of abilities.
You can bet that that if the average player has purchased all Stat Tomes...and walks into a dungeon with $50 worth of consumables at thier disposal... then the designer will base the difficulty of doing that content around those abilities. A player walking into that dungeon without those Stat Tomes or that stockpile of consumables available is going to be at a distinct disadvantage in facing that content.
can you people calm down and actually play the game and see it for your self? I mean I could care less about new f2p players, heck I actually like that they don't get free traits, get gold cap, have to pay for maunt skills and all that crap why so? because we pre paying subscribers already had to pay for what they get for free... if you already were subscribed you lose NOTHING except stupid PvMP.... if your 50+ and have had already moria + SOM expansions kudos to you the game is completely free from now on... there is no gold cap you have to buy, you keep all traits, all skills, all everything... you even get bank space, auction, mail, communication etc.... and to new players, this was a pay2play game and it still is... gotta keep that in your head. Now lets talk about tomes. 30+ in a skill when you are level 65 is nothing. Absolutely nothing, your dps might be higher for what 5dps? does that make you almighty powerful or something? And if you had some good gear you would probably already have maxed out one of your main stats...... also for us paying subsribers we get 500 tp from june to aug if we payed so that allows me to get tomes for free...
Quick summary: If you started f2p its a hell to you, you will not find this game anything to f2p, however if you were 50+ before f2p this game is actually f2p for you, you keep everything you had before.
This may be a worthwhile complaint for a pure f2p, but how many times do we have to say that you can get to 50 adequately without quest packs, or that you can get TP points while you play for free? If people like the game so much that they start spending big bucks, they can *gasp* cap their spending by getting a VIP account. The smart ones anyway. What is it with people going crazy when you give them more choices?
Free-to-play means pure F2P. If Turbine would advertise this as -limited-free-to-play, then I bet half of the complaints would be discarded. So yeah, I agree with this "free-to-play" - its not a reasonable statement. If you had access to all levels, limited perhaps to some dungeons (rest being reserved for paying customers), and maybe slower leveling, and maybe restricted to epic weapons, then I would call that a reasonable clause to call it F2P. As it stands now, it is on a level of a trial or at best a very limited F2P game.
Where did you get the definition of F2P saying that it means pure F2P hmm? is it just from playing other games that let you get to level cap? Those games were designed to do that however there are 2 types of F2P. The ones that let you get to end game but will probably make you extremely weak if you don't pay after or the ones that let you play to some part because they were P2P before. F2P litteraly means free to play, and in what way are you not free to play lotro when you can install it and play it even after 20... there is no trial that will delete you account.. it will always be free to play and you will always be able to log into your account... that is just your fanatic idea of f2p because you got used to playing runes of magic or allods, but it's not the same here. For all i care they could make a new gender called f2pbayhtp = free to play but after you have to pay, would that make people like you happy? LOTRO EXPERIENCE THE NEW F2PBAYHTP!!! Sounds awesome!
just to add to my last comment here is what wiki says:
"Free-to-play (F2P, FTP) refers to any game that has an option of allowing its players to play without paying. Some of these games have both a free version and a Pay to Play version that offers the full version of the game and all of the updates. Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo. The term "free-to-play" is frequently heard in the context of massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs)."
In my posts I might sound like a troll but I'm sick of you haters not knowing what f2p means...
"Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo."
That quote is what lotro did and therefor is considered a f2p.
I'd also say it's innacurate to say that no boosts or buffs are available in the shop and that play is completely "fair" between paying and non-paying subscribers. Tome's and potions etc, along with Traits and all that are EXACTLY that...They are buffs and in some cases significant play advantages.... and for all practical purposes...you WILL have to pay for them in order to be on the same footing ability wise with a paying player that has them. Heck, I think even a VIP (subscriber) wouldn't be on the same footing as a player spending significant amounts of money in the cash shop for consumables, Tomes, etc....although we'd be alot closer then a non-playing player was...and we do get a certain monthly alotment of TP's from our subscription.
Or a player can buy/make them in game.
1) Stat Tomes are NOT craftable (unless I am miss-reading something). They ARE available as Very Rare world drops. Meaning your odds of getting them are about the same as the Cubs winning the World Series... It does happen, but not in alot of peoples life-times.
2) Potions ARE craftable.... but it requires a significant amount of work gathering materials to do so, as well as leveling the skill to do so.
How is this functionaly different from the ability to purchase an Ace in black-jack for $.50 cents whenever you want? Or purchase an extra 5 manna in Magic the Gathering for $1.00 WHENEVER you want it?
Yes...aside from PvMP players in LOTRO are NOT DIRECTLY competing against each other... so not being on an equal footing with some-one making RMT purchases may not matter as much.
However, the article suggested that thier was no difference from an effectiveness/ability standpoint from some-one who pays to some-one who doesn't. That statement is GROSSLY inaccurate.
Furthermore....players effectiness/ability DOES matter to other players experience even in games where there is no DIRECT competition betweem players. Designers base the difficulty of the content they design on thier expectations of what the average player doing that content has in terms of abilities.
You can bet that that if the average player has purchased all Stat Tomes...and walks into a dungeon with $50 worth of consumables at thier disposal... then the designer will base the difficulty of doing that content around those abilities. A player walking into that dungeon without those Stat Tomes or that stockpile of consumables available is going to be at a distinct disadvantage in facing that content.
Well, I can't comment on tomes' drop rate but one can sell them in the AH so I imagine they will start showing up. That's what players used to do in L2, they would raid so they could get whatever rare drops there were and then sell them. I don't see this as a bad thing.
Or, one can purchase them I suppose.
Potions? I buy ALL my potions. never craft them. Ever. And I have not had any problem staying stocked. One really doesn't need that many potions in this game. Oh, there are some huge annoyance debuffs but in the end they have never been a huge problem in regular quests and dungeon runs.
I'm really not that concerned about those items. What I would be concerned about, and we'll have to wait and see, is what type of gear they choose to put in the store. But tomes? It's not that hard to get one's virtues to 10. Potions? It's never been an issue.
edit: since when do we have to use html tags for our posts?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
This may be a worthwhile complaint for a pure f2p, but how many times do we have to say that you can get to 50 adequately without quest packs, or that you can get TP points while you play for free? If people like the game so much that they start spending big bucks, they can *gasp* cap their spending by getting a VIP account. The smart ones anyway. What is it with people going crazy when you give them more choices?
Free-to-play means pure F2P. If Turbine would advertise this as -limited-free-to-play, then I bet half of the complaints would be discarded. So yeah, I agree with this "free-to-play" - its not a reasonable statement. If you had access to all levels, limited perhaps to some dungeons (rest being reserved for paying customers), and maybe slower leveling, and maybe restricted to epic weapons, then I would call that a reasonable clause to call it F2P. As it stands now, it is on a level of a trial or at best a very limited F2P game.
Where did you get the definition of F2P saying that it means pure F2P hmm? is it just from playing other games that let you get to level cap? Those games were designed to do that however there are 2 types of F2P. The ones that let you get to end game but will probably make you extremely weak if you don't pay after or the ones that let you play to some part because they were P2P before. F2P litteraly means free to play, and in what way are you not free to play lotro when you can install it and play it even after 20... there is no trial that will delete you account.. it will always be free to play and you will always be able to log into your account... that is just your fanatic idea of f2p because you got used to playing runes of magic or allods, but it's not the same here. For all i care they could make a new gender called f2pbayhtp = free to play but after you have to pay, would that make people like you happy? LOTRO EXPERIENCE THE NEW F2PBAYHTP!!! Sounds awesome!
where did you get the definition of F2P saying its limited to 1/4, 1/3 or even half of the level? Use common sense, if its FREE, then its either completely free, or very close to completely free. If you go to a restaurant for a FREE dinner, would you accept a free drink and pay for dinner as a definition of FREE dinner? Or would you accept free dinner, but have to pay for a drink as a much closer definition of FREE dinner?
Being restricted to a certain level means you are not able to play that much of the content above that level. So, if we compare this to a dinner, you get some bread or maybe an appetizer and thats it, you have to pay for everything else. I mean you did eat some bread, right? That does qualify as a free dinner by your definition.
just to add to my last comment here is what wiki says:
"Free-to-play (F2P, FTP) refers to any game that has an option of allowing its players to play without paying. Some of these games have both a free version and a Pay to Play version that offers the full version of the game and all of the updates. Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo. The term "free-to-play" is frequently heard in the context of massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs)."
In my posts I might sound like a troll but I'm sick of you haters not knowing what f2p means...
"Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo."
That quote is what lotro did and therefor is considered a f2p.
That definition is from Wikipedia, which is created, edited and mantained by people. There is no official definition of "free-to-play". Thats why companies slap F2P tag on all kinds of games. If I were to create a MMORPG and let people login only 1 level out of 1000, unable to do ANYTHING else but chat, then it would still fall under that definition, because technically, you CAN play like that ... with text you type into the chat.
Give it up, already. Not all people are gullible. Some people can actually see when "free" is not so much "free" as companies claim. GG corporate sponsor.
This may be a worthwhile complaint for a pure f2p, but how many times do we have to say that you can get to 50 adequately without quest packs, or that you can get TP points while you play for free? If people like the game so much that they start spending big bucks, they can *gasp* cap their spending by getting a VIP account. The smart ones anyway. What is it with people going crazy when you give them more choices?
Free-to-play means pure F2P. If Turbine would advertise this as -limited-free-to-play, then I bet half of the complaints would be discarded. So yeah, I agree with this "free-to-play" - its not a reasonable statement. If you had access to all levels, limited perhaps to some dungeons (rest being reserved for paying customers), and maybe slower leveling, and maybe restricted to epic weapons, then I would call that a reasonable clause to call it F2P. As it stands now, it is on a level of a trial or at best a very limited F2P game.
Where did you get the definition of F2P saying that it means pure F2P hmm? is it just from playing other games that let you get to level cap? Those games were designed to do that however there are 2 types of F2P. The ones that let you get to end game but will probably make you extremely weak if you don't pay after or the ones that let you play to some part because they were P2P before. F2P litteraly means free to play, and in what way are you not free to play lotro when you can install it and play it even after 20... there is no trial that will delete you account.. it will always be free to play and you will always be able to log into your account... that is just your fanatic idea of f2p because you got used to playing runes of magic or allods, but it's not the same here. For all i care they could make a new gender called f2pbayhtp = free to play but after you have to pay, would that make people like you happy? LOTRO EXPERIENCE THE NEW F2PBAYHTP!!! Sounds awesome!
where did you get the definition of F2P saying its limited to 1/4, 1/3 or even half of the level? Use common sense, if its FREE, then its either completely free, or very close to completely free. If you go to a restaurant for a FREE dinner, would you accept a free drink and pay for dinner as a definition of FREE dinner? Or would you accept free dinner, but have to pay for a drink as a much closer definition of FREE dinner?
Being restricted to a certain level means you are not able to play that much of the content above that level. So, if we compare this to a dinner, you get some bread or maybe an appetizer and thats it, you have to pay for everything else. I mean you did eat some bread, right? That does qualify as a free dinner by your definition.
EDIT: speeling errorrerz.
I said there are 2 types of f2p out there ones which are free to end but make you probably hate it after or f2p that restrict you after 1/3 or 1/2 or w/e. Comparing mmorpg to dinner is redicilous but if i must say yes bread and some appetizers would be considered free dinner. You see you can compare this dinner example to other f2p mmorpgs. You eat dinner every day that has much more than just bread and appetizers correct? Well in your mind that should be free in a restourant when they say they will let your have free dinner but what you don't realize is that bread and appetizers can be considered free just in a cheaper way, I mean afterall you still eat so its free dinner. The same thing happens to you people with mmorpgs that are free. You are too used to playing the same f2p mmorpgs that have the same style and then when you try a different kind of f2p you complain because its not your full dinner you expect... companies use this because its not lying. They use this method because they get a lot more money and can defend themself because of reasons like I stated. Bussiness is all about money son.
Comments
For me quest stacker mmos can be extremely tedious and boring when i attempt to sit through an extended play session (more than two hours).
With Lotro's switch to F2p I can play 15-30 minutes at a time and the game doesnt get tedious and I don't feel like im wasting my sub money on a game I don't play.
I'm already looking into adding another character slot, Bag and maybe a early quest zone sine ill be low level for around the first 6-8 months.
Great move by Turbine and I'm glad someone understands how to do F2p.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
They double-dipped on DDO too, but that seems to be doing pretty well. People who bought DDO years ago and came back as Premium players had to re-purchase content they had before, like STK, Catacombs, 3BC, Delera's, etc...
Looks like the website is hacked couse im trying sinse 09/10.
Every day they one kind of erro at sit.
Cant sign to play...
Cant contact the suport...
They have lots bug in the website.
We should sign
LOL
As I have stated elsewhere the term "free to play" is it's own worse enemy.
I like DDO and LOTRO and for that matter EQ2X's models...but not because they are totally free.
I prefer the term: Free to Access. I pay for things: quests, slots, etc: and I get to keep them. I can roam away from LOTRO and when I am ready to come back everything I paid for I still own.
The opposite of course is Pay to Access. I played WoW for quite some time, but all that money spent gives me no access. I don't get to keep anything unless I pay to access it.
So while I don't pretend it's for everyone: I prefer Free to Access games. I don't think they're free. I intend to spend small amounts of money. And whatever I do spend my money I can keep and access whenever I want.
This is works for me. But this model should not be confused with a mythical totally free model.
Nice thank
http://www.games4s.com
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I tried that so called f2p.. and..
That is not free to play game. That is a mearly extended demo version - up to the 20 lvls.
I love how turbine hyped to hell this so called free to play launch of the game...
They didn't double-dip on DDO either. DDO players could continue to pay their monthly subscription after going "F2P" (like they did) and still have access to all content they had before.
Complaining is fun, but maybe it should be focused on things worth copmplaining about, otherwise it'll lose its power...
Free-to-play means pure F2P. If Turbine would advertise this as -limited-free-to-play, then I bet half of the complaints would be discarded. So yeah, I agree with this "free-to-play" - its not a reasonable statement. If you had access to all levels, limited perhaps to some dungeons (rest being reserved for paying customers), and maybe slower leveling, and maybe restricted to epic weapons, then I would call that a reasonable clause to call it F2P. As it stands now, it is on a level of a trial or at best a very limited F2P game.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I'd say they have consistanly astro-turfed the Lore in the game over the past couple years. It was (IMO) pretty good at the beggining of SOA ...with some concessions in order to convert to game format...but as more time went on, they strayed further and further afield...till at this point (IMO) they've abandoned even the pretense of sticking with the lore...daemon goats and haunted hobbit holes indeed.
As far as F2P, I'd say the advertising is really a bit misleading. Lets call it what it is.... a Cash Shop RMT model. I can't imagine anyone willing to grind enough to avoid the payment option. Furthermore you DEFINATELY have to pay in order to reach top level (65) in the game...as I believe it's hard-coded that you can't advance past 50 without at least buying the MOM expansion content. Not complaining that it's in anyway unfair for the company to require that....but it is pretty deceptive to try to market is as never having to pay anything.
I'd also say it's innacurate to say that no boosts or buffs are available in the shop and that play is completely "fair" between paying and non-paying subscribers. Tome's and potions etc, along with Traits and all that are EXACTLY that...They are buffs and in some cases significant play advantages.... and for all practical purposes...you WILL have to pay for them in order to be on the same footing ability wise with a paying player that has them. Heck, I think even a VIP (subscriber) wouldn't be on the same footing as a player spending significant amounts of money in the cash shop for consumables, Tomes, etc....although we'd be alot closer then a non-playing player was...and we do get a certain monthly alotment of TP's from our subscription.
Bottom line....it's a CASH SHOP model...not all that significantly different from the Cash Shops in many other F2P games....where you can purchase a WIDE VARIETY of things...including content, cosmetics, classes, consumables, exp boosts and PERMANENT and Temporary Stat Boosters. It is what it is....It's not as over the top with that as some F2P games...but it is there. So lets not pretend otherwise. Either you're ok with it...or your not....or (like me) your not happy about it but you are willing to tolerate it for now as long as they don't try to push it too much.
I hope their f2p move becomes a success
its pretty safe to say its the best f2p game out there lol
Or a player can buy/make them in game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Reposting other erroneous posted information does not make it correct.
You can get Turbine points in game, therefore you can unlock things without spending money.
Like all f2p games it will take you much longer to earn TPs to unlock things in game then to just spend the money. So if you went "Sweet f2p now I can be a cheapskate and have everything I want when I want it YIPPIE" and then logged in and rushed up to level 20 as fast as you could, then yes you would of hit a stall point.
I love how all of the people who think life will give them everything they want for free have incorrect information and whine about having to put some work in if they want to not pay money. The sooner you wake up and realize how the world works, and it is not out to service you and give you everything you ever desired for no work, the happier your life will be.
So many assumptions going on in this forum. The key necessary factor to this discussion that none of you really have concrete knowledge of is the rate at which in-game Turbine Points can be accumulated. The haters are assuming that rate will be very slow. The lovers are assuming that rate will be "adequate." The truth is, none of you know. Stop assuming and wait to see for sure.
There ARE F2P games out that tthat have a completely free, adequately fast progression system. For example, League of Legends. Although not an MMORPG, it is an MMO and follows a similar business model. You can reach max level (30), and buy all the in game champions + runes you would like without spending a dime. It may take 5-10 games (a LoL game is essentially a 20-60 minute 3v3 or 5v5 pvp match using various champions with various abilities) to earn enough "Influence Points" to buy a new champion (whose prices vary), but playing those games is the majority of the fun anyway. It doesn't feel like slow, boring in game work. I have yet to spend a dime on the game and have loved every minute.
Then on the other hand, there ARE games like the aforementioned DDO, whose in game system is too agonizingly slow to actually progress through without spending real money.
TLDR: just because they're going with this business model doesn't mean in game progression will be too slow, but nor does it guarantee it will be suitable enough for most player. The rate you acquire in game Turbine points can VARY according to the developer's desire. Until you test Turbine's implementation of this model, don't argue about its effect. Argue about the philosophical merits of this business model if you like, but you simply have no factual basis to make any judgements about LOTRO's spefic version.
I agree with Homitu.
League of Legends has the best f2p model that i've ever seen. The game is so great that i have played it since the very first beta without even noticing that i am in a disadvantage or NEED to pay in order to progress. On the other hand, the pricing system is entierly based around cosmetic skins - no content lock, no nothing. I gladly give my support to such companies.
Unfortunately here there is no such greatness. But there is the fact that each site i visit has this great logo boldy saying ''LOTR IS FREEEE'' - no its not.
SnarlingWolf, your comment is both false and insulting.
1st- bying something with the reward turbine points is almost imposible because of the costs/rewards ratio. The ammount of time to spent in order to even unlock something small like extra trait slot is enormous. Several months maybe..
2nd- There are f2p games and masked f2p games. Try LOL for example - not a single dime required for a FULL enjoyment. So yes, there is a free launch.
3rd - a random internet punk talks to me about real life, work and how it is all connected. Kid, im pretty sure i have seen more of this life that you will ever do so spare me your crap.
1) Stat Tomes are NOT craftable (unless I am miss-reading something). They ARE available as Very Rare world drops. Meaning your odds of getting them are about the same as the Cubs winning the World Series... It does happen, but not in alot of peoples life-times.
2) Potions ARE craftable.... but it requires a significant amount of work gathering materials to do so, as well as leveling the skill to do so.
How is this functionaly different from the ability to purchase an Ace in black-jack for $.50 cents whenever you want? Or purchase an extra 5 manna in Magic the Gathering for $1.00 WHENEVER you want it?
Yes...aside from PvMP players in LOTRO are NOT DIRECTLY competing against each other... so not being on an equal footing with some-one making RMT purchases may not matter as much.
However, the article suggested that thier was no difference from an effectiveness/ability standpoint from some-one who pays to some-one who doesn't. That statement is GROSSLY inaccurate.
Furthermore....players effectiness/ability DOES matter to other players experience even in games where there is no DIRECT competition betweem players. Designers base the difficulty of the content they design on thier expectations of what the average player doing that content has in terms of abilities.
You can bet that that if the average player has purchased all Stat Tomes...and walks into a dungeon with $50 worth of consumables at thier disposal... then the designer will base the difficulty of doing that content around those abilities. A player walking into that dungeon without those Stat Tomes or that stockpile of consumables available is going to be at a distinct disadvantage in facing that content.
can you people calm down and actually play the game and see it for your self? I mean I could care less about new f2p players, heck I actually like that they don't get free traits, get gold cap, have to pay for maunt skills and all that crap why so? because we pre paying subscribers already had to pay for what they get for free... if you already were subscribed you lose NOTHING except stupid PvMP.... if your 50+ and have had already moria + SOM expansions kudos to you the game is completely free from now on... there is no gold cap you have to buy, you keep all traits, all skills, all everything... you even get bank space, auction, mail, communication etc.... and to new players, this was a pay2play game and it still is... gotta keep that in your head. Now lets talk about tomes. 30+ in a skill when you are level 65 is nothing. Absolutely nothing, your dps might be higher for what 5dps? does that make you almighty powerful or something? And if you had some good gear you would probably already have maxed out one of your main stats...... also for us paying subsribers we get 500 tp from june to aug if we payed so that allows me to get tomes for free...
Quick summary: If you started f2p its a hell to you, you will not find this game anything to f2p, however if you were 50+ before f2p this game is actually f2p for you, you keep everything you had before.
Where did you get the definition of F2P saying that it means pure F2P hmm? is it just from playing other games that let you get to level cap? Those games were designed to do that however there are 2 types of F2P. The ones that let you get to end game but will probably make you extremely weak if you don't pay after or the ones that let you play to some part because they were P2P before. F2P litteraly means free to play, and in what way are you not free to play lotro when you can install it and play it even after 20... there is no trial that will delete you account.. it will always be free to play and you will always be able to log into your account... that is just your fanatic idea of f2p because you got used to playing runes of magic or allods, but it's not the same here. For all i care they could make a new gender called f2pbayhtp = free to play but after you have to pay, would that make people like you happy? LOTRO EXPERIENCE THE NEW F2PBAYHTP!!! Sounds awesome!
just to add to my last comment here is what wiki says:
"Free-to-play (F2P, FTP) refers to any game that has an option of allowing its players to play without paying. Some of these games have both a free version and a Pay to Play version that offers the full version of the game and all of the updates. Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo. The term "free-to-play" is frequently heard in the context of massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs)."
In my posts I might sound like a troll but I'm sick of you haters not knowing what f2p means...
"Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo."
That quote is what lotro did and therefor is considered a f2p.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Or a player can buy/make them in game.
1) Stat Tomes are NOT craftable (unless I am miss-reading something). They ARE available as Very Rare world drops. Meaning your odds of getting them are about the same as the Cubs winning the World Series... It does happen, but not in alot of peoples life-times.
2) Potions ARE craftable.... but it requires a significant amount of work gathering materials to do so, as well as leveling the skill to do so.
How is this functionaly different from the ability to purchase an Ace in black-jack for $.50 cents whenever you want? Or purchase an extra 5 manna in Magic the Gathering for $1.00 WHENEVER you want it?
Yes...aside from PvMP players in LOTRO are NOT DIRECTLY competing against each other... so not being on an equal footing with some-one making RMT purchases may not matter as much.
However, the article suggested that thier was no difference from an effectiveness/ability standpoint from some-one who pays to some-one who doesn't. That statement is GROSSLY inaccurate.
Furthermore....players effectiness/ability DOES matter to other players experience even in games where there is no DIRECT competition betweem players. Designers base the difficulty of the content they design on thier expectations of what the average player doing that content has in terms of abilities.
You can bet that that if the average player has purchased all Stat Tomes...and walks into a dungeon with $50 worth of consumables at thier disposal... then the designer will base the difficulty of doing that content around those abilities. A player walking into that dungeon without those Stat Tomes or that stockpile of consumables available is going to be at a distinct disadvantage in facing that content.
Well, I can't comment on tomes' drop rate but one can sell them in the AH so I imagine they will start showing up. That's what players used to do in L2, they would raid so they could get whatever rare drops there were and then sell them. I don't see this as a bad thing.
Or, one can purchase them I suppose.
Potions? I buy ALL my potions. never craft them. Ever. And I have not had any problem staying stocked. One really doesn't need that many potions in this game. Oh, there are some huge annoyance debuffs but in the end they have never been a huge problem in regular quests and dungeon runs.
I'm really not that concerned about those items. What I would be concerned about, and we'll have to wait and see, is what type of gear they choose to put in the store. But tomes? It's not that hard to get one's virtues to 10. Potions? It's never been an issue.
edit: since when do we have to use html tags for our posts?Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
where did you get the definition of F2P saying its limited to 1/4, 1/3 or even half of the level? Use common sense, if its FREE, then its either completely free, or very close to completely free. If you go to a restaurant for a FREE dinner, would you accept a free drink and pay for dinner as a definition of FREE dinner? Or would you accept free dinner, but have to pay for a drink as a much closer definition of FREE dinner?
Being restricted to a certain level means you are not able to play that much of the content above that level. So, if we compare this to a dinner, you get some bread or maybe an appetizer and thats it, you have to pay for everything else. I mean you did eat some bread, right? That does qualify as a free dinner by your definition.
EDIT: speeling errorrerz.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
That definition is from Wikipedia, which is created, edited and mantained by people. There is no official definition of "free-to-play". Thats why companies slap F2P tag on all kinds of games. If I were to create a MMORPG and let people login only 1 level out of 1000, unable to do ANYTHING else but chat, then it would still fall under that definition, because technically, you CAN play like that ... with text you type into the chat.
Give it up, already. Not all people are gullible. Some people can actually see when "free" is not so much "free" as companies claim. GG corporate sponsor.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I said there are 2 types of f2p out there ones which are free to end but make you probably hate it after or f2p that restrict you after 1/3 or 1/2 or w/e. Comparing mmorpg to dinner is redicilous but if i must say yes bread and some appetizers would be considered free dinner. You see you can compare this dinner example to other f2p mmorpgs. You eat dinner every day that has much more than just bread and appetizers correct? Well in your mind that should be free in a restourant when they say they will let your have free dinner but what you don't realize is that bread and appetizers can be considered free just in a cheaper way, I mean afterall you still eat so its free dinner. The same thing happens to you people with mmorpgs that are free. You are too used to playing the same f2p mmorpgs that have the same style and then when you try a different kind of f2p you complain because its not your full dinner you expect... companies use this because its not lying. They use this method because they get a lot more money and can defend themself because of reasons like I stated. Bussiness is all about money son.