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General: More F2P for the West?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
With the conversion of three of popular western titles (DDO, Everquest 2 and Lord of the Rings Online), Richard Aihoshi wonders in this week's Free Zone column whether or not more 'western' development companies will start to develop free to play games from the outset. See what Richard thinks and then add your thoughts on the forums!
I sort of brought this question up a few weeks ago, but really didn't address it. Converting subscription games is a hot topic these days, and it seems safe to assume the folks at SOE and Turbine were working to get EQ2X and LOTRO ready well before the made their respective recent announcements. But where they and the other major MMOG houses in this hemisphere stand with respect to developing titles that are F2P from the outset may well be a far more significant matter.
Read more of Richard Aihoshi's Free Zone.
Comments
Make more B2P MMO you idiots!!!
If you going to make MMo for Anti-WoW fans, than make them B2P so they can have life.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Do you anti-F2P people ever get tired of posting on every F2P story that's posted?
Basically all of the out of date games are gonna go F2P and new ones will go P2P. It's that simple.
Agreed.
I expect to see a lot more games becoming and starting out as F2P in the future. Whether this is a good or bad thing remains to be seen.
I fall into the camp of, I don't really care, if it's a game I like, be it f2p, subs, subs with store, or what ever I am going to play it, The face of the American mmo is slowly changing, for profit companies are finding ways to increase profit, and good for them, that means more content and game play for me... It is one of those issues either adapt to the new way or find new games to play, the change is coming, love it hate it there is nothing you can do, but be assimilated or move on..:)
On the other hand I bet they start giving you less content with less new game play designs. When they start only thinking profit and end numbers they lose what some of the people want with their greed. We want good stories open worlds with never ending gameplay along with no bugs or flaws. They want to give you what was cheap and easy/fast to put out with now thought in it but dollar bills in their eye sight.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
I guess MMORPG.com the recent F2P vs P2P debate is generating lots of interest? So you are hyping this a bit?
But, let's be fair... DDO and LotRO are not really in the same class as past F2P titles are they?
They offer a Hybrid Billing model;
You can play free and grind for content.
You can use the cash shop and buy the content
You can subscribe in the 'traditional' P2P way.
So I don't know if calling these titles F2P and lumping them in with some of the older Pay-to-Win style games is really fair?
Also, bare in mind that the Turbine "F2P" Hybrid model puts certain restrictions on game design. It works in DDO because it is sort of appropriate for that IP. I have yet to try LotRO but I am not sure you could apply that sort of billing model to any IP or game design.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I too am inclined to agree.
Buy 2 Play is an interesting model, somewhat riskier, but if a quality game is B2P and I have to fork over the cash for an xpack or two every year I'd find myself having a better variety of mmos to play
Instead of playing just the one or two games, I'd probably play 3-4 different mmos to keep me from burning out.
Minus the fact that LOTRO and DDO are far from out of date Though EQ2 is
To err is human....to play is divine
Vanguard for f2p next, I hope
I'd look into it again.
Making P2P games into F2P make me sick. So, we gonna get games with no new contents, updates... Why? We will get bloody damn item shop which will make people hard to level, hard to make achievements, hard to make progress. That means less much work for devs, but much more money for them, they will not care about games, about bugs, etc... Just to make more money. Just see EQ2 f2p model... Unfortunatelly, those days so much ignorant people play mmorpgs, devs will make profit from them.
Both Funcom and Mythic (and Blizzard btw) have said they are looking at free to play models but waiting to see how things turns out for the games already making the switch.
I'm guessing both AoC and WAR will have announced a F2P model within 1 year. Blizzard will probably wait another couple of years.
WIth all the new MMOs coming out next year the market will be very crowded and you need to find a way to stand out, especailly with underperformers with potential like AOC and WAR.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I think Guild Wars 2 will blow the old no-gameplay, no-content for F2P games out of the water. I have loved playing GW and keeping my money in my pocket for the last few years, but GW2 is going to be industry-changing. Both Gamecon and PAX attendees and reviewers are raving about it, and the awards are piling in.
Methinks Blizzard, Turbine, and all the others will be left in a pile of dust once this game launches--and is Free To Play.
I guess I'll just wait and see. I'm not sure the F2A models are good-value-for-money for us gamers. As someone has pointed out, it could mean that we in fact pay more for less content. They have to balance fun with being forced to think about cash shops. I don't find it particularly fun to always think about cash shops m'self.... in that sense, I way prefer the P2P model of payment.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Where has Richard been:
[quote]Another is THQ, which has dipped its proverbial toe in the water via its joint venture publishing Dragonica.[/quote]
THQ*ICE has shutdown.
--
Michael
Spoken like a true record company executive.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Richard undoubtedly knows.
Mr. Aihoshi has a tendency to downplay, ignore, or flat out omit any detail which might stain his "F2P is the new Messiah of gaming!" agenda that he pushes with each insipid "article" he writes. The only ones who buy into his spiel are the new generation of mmo gamer who is easily impressed with "OHHhhh, free shinies!", and a few mmo veterans who put on rose coloered blinders while feebly hoping F2P will really "save" and reinvigorate their stagnant and increasingly overcrowded hobby.
The rest of us just sit back, perhaps allow a smirk to arise to our lips, and wait for the realization to finally dawn on the "F2P" afficianados that their preferred style of payment ( or rather lack thereof ) is nothing more than an illusion created to pilfer their pockets for maximum profit with minimal effort.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I've given F2P a few more attempts in the past few weeks, even giving LoTRO "reborn" a try. Nothing new. Everywhere you turn, there's reminders to "spend more money!".
When I play a MMO, I want to be immersed in a *game*, not be met with constant reminders that I can buy more content... especially when it's content I already paid for once.
My LoTRO experience this time around lasted about an hour. Logged in, ran around and found that quests that I had already started were now "locked" and that I had to purchase that content - yet again - in order to complete it. Sorry, I already *paid* for that content when I bought the box. Turbine already got my money for that content.... as evidenced by the fact that I was already partaking in it when they made the switch.
Now I have to pay for it again? Ahhhhh sorry but no. Aside from that, all I saw throughout various lower level areas were the "locked content" icons over NPCs heads.... all NPCs that I remember getting quests from before the supposed "F2P" move.
Mind you, this isn't latter areas. This is early areas in the game.. Lonelands, Trollshaws, etc. I'm not even talking about Evendim or Forochel or other areas that were patched in. For those areas, I could say "okay... well technically I didn't buy that content...". But the other areas that came with the box purchase? No way.
Yes, I know, people are going to say the following, 'cause they've said it before:
1. "Well you just have to buy it once and then it's unlocked forever." Sounds wonderful, except that I already bought it once, and am being told I have to buy it again. That's my point.
2. "All you have to do is re-sub and then you can get access to that content again." Again, not very "F2P" when I have to pay to unlock content I already paid for, in a supposed "F2P" MMO.
3. "Well they have to make money somehow!" - And they were, with my subscription and my box purchases, along with everyone else's. I didn't ask for a change to F2P. That was their decision, not mine.
Though I keep trying to get on that wave, and wanted to give Turbien the benefit of the doubt, LoTRO F2P is a sham, just as all F2P is a sham. In all my experiments with it, going back many months and many MMOs now, it's been no different. And, because I know someone's going to say "but you can play without spending a dime!", that isn't the point. The point is, I don't want my gameplay experience to be interrupted regularly by reminders to pull out my credit card yet again, or that I can't access content the NPC standing right in front of me clearly has to offer unless I "buy it" first.
F2P, it seems, is great for people who aren't looking for a world to sink themselves into and who don't mind regular advertisements popping up in their experience to pull them out of it. P2P,on the other hand, allows me to immerse myself in the game world without worry of such annoyances occuring.
Here's food for thought: There's a reason why people are routinely amazed at the level of quality and amount of variety in P2P MMOs that go F2P, but yet seem to complain about a lack of depth or content in games developed as F2P.
I laughed and facepalmed recently as I was watching a video "first impression" for "F2P" LoTRO from MMOHut. The guy's creating a character and says "This game has a lot of character options, especially for a F2P" - or something to that effect. I said, out loud, "Umm...." and then just started laughing at the idiocy of that statement.
And who can forget how DDO - a MMO that was failing as a P2P MMO - became hailed as the best the F2P Market had to offer when Turbine changed that game over. As I said back then, when a MMO that was failing as a P2P game is being championed as the hero of F2P... that's not saying much for the F2P scene overall.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Much of what caused this free to play movement in the west is that the majority of people felt that only one game Warcraft warrented the standard monthly subsciption of 15 dollars per month over a long period of time ( although I would argue given that its now ostensibly a raid and instanced game its not worth that now ) so if you cant beat them undercut them .
What some people are either too stupid or dogmatic to understand is that theres various different free to play model . The hyrbid ddo model is essentially a long and comprehensive free tral so when you hit that wall you have a choise of the standard 15 dollar monthly sub or mircropayment so to say this is going to cost you more you would have to be one of the most ignorant individuals to ever draw breath.
As for more free to play .Its inevitable of course . In fact I'm pretty certain that all but a a handful of mmos will take up some variation of the hyrbid or buy to play model . I also think new games will offer thses models or possibly we will see lower month subscriptions .
Here is my question for mr aoshi or however u spell the mans name. How many of these new f2p hybrid models had 11.5 mil subescribers? Answer none. Most of them were lucky to hit 500k. Ddo was going broke f2play saved it If it had stayed a paid mmo it wouldnt be around anymore.
Lotro on the other hand was doing ok but not anywhere near wow. Sure f2 play brings in a bunch of players just looking for a few weeks of fun but how many of them actually stay and pay money? Id say 10 pct at most.
Blizzard may make a f2play mmo in the future to test the waters. I dont see them making a game with 11.5 mil subs into a p2play f/2play hybrid or going free 2 play. Doing so will alienate about 75 pct of there american subscribers. Selling mounts and companion pets and character transfers and character slots is one thing.
Selling xp boosts, gear and other stuff will loose blizz more subs then they can afford to lose. Going f2p for blizz would mean admitting wow cant sustain a sub model and in doing so lose people who play the game. Maybe they gain 1 mil f2play players. But can they offset the 6-7 mil subs theyd loose doing this?
People who write this stuff never consider that gong f2play or hybrid actually costs the company doing so subs and money from that revenue stream and while they may make a few more bucks off the f2 play players in the end does that offset the losses they wold have from subs like me whod leave the game entirely.
I play wow cause i love it. going f2 play making me pay to level fater or get gear others have worked hrs to obtain. Would make me quit. if a guy can get the latest tier gear while its still relevant. Once a new tier of raids comes out the old gear isnt as releveant to me so blizz giving badges that give u the last tier prior to the one u are on doesnt count for me. Would suck ass
No offense but watching a guy walk around in the t 11 gear by buying it instead of having to actually work for it would piss me off and id quit and im sure alot of others would also. There are already a segment wants to quit because of the badge system that gives u the previous tier gear pretty easy.
So blizzard going f2 play maybe on a new mmo but never with wow unless wow had dropped subs to like 2-3 mil range.
I dont see wow as an instanced raid game. Sure raiding is a huge part of end game. But i hae 4 80s and 2 60s and a 73 at this moment in time. So i obviously love wows replayablity. none of my classes are duplicates. My 80s are a be rogue, a ne druid a draneie shammy and pally. My 73 is a tauren warrior and my 60s are a 68 gnome mage and a 62 human priest.
I love replaying the game. Im not an open world pvp fan its why i left my pvp realm for pve. I hate being ganked while leavling and forced to log out cause some max level idiot keeps camping me. If i wanna pvp which i dont i do bgs which i admit are instanced.
But the levelin experiance isnt an instanced thing if u do the quests. Its only instanced if u try to level trhough bgs and dungeons and no quests. I for one perfer to quest. So while some of wow is instanced most of it is a wide open world u can explore at will.
With cat changing the world and some zones changing levels i cant wait to level a worgen and a goblin. So for me its worth the 15 dollars a month. I play wow cause its fun and i have a blast . I raid and do dungeons but i perfer to quest. Question for levelign is one of the funner parts of wow i know not everyone agrees. But having to buy quest packs and stuff would ruin the game for me if it went f 2play as well as the afforementioned gear thing.
Id also like to point out most games going f2play or hybrid are either dying as subs or are at less then 1 mil subs. What incentive does wow have to go f 2 play or hybrid when the games that have doen so still cant match wows sub base?
Come on Richard you continually lump all f2p games into the same basket when clearly their are huge differences between the model turbine and in a sense SOE are using and the rest of the bunch. Many of the f2p games are pay to win. The vast majority of people who play them find out quickly the economic model does not suit them and move on. In Turbine games that is not the case. You only pay for the content you want, the item shop carries no I win buttons.
It really irks me you are so obtuse to this fact. Until you can accept this fact, your discussions will continually be just a lot of hot air. And you wonder why so many people criticize your postings. I wish MMORPG would get someone who at least has the intelligence to recognize that f2p economic models are not the same, to write decent columns about this section of the genre instead of the nonsense you generate.
The recent conversions to F2P are terrible examples of how this model should work.
Limiting content from the outset is the fastest way to lose a players interest.
In EQ2X the inventory size lost my interest within 2 hours of play. 2 small bags and a couple of bank slots make the game tedious from the very start.
Constant reminders to purchase something is another instant turn-off for me.
You may laugh, but one game I think may be on the right tracks with this model is PWI. I played until level 20 or so and never once felt the need to purchase anything. I don't play now because it's just not my style of game, but I'd recommend it to others.
The paid for content should be kept subtly out of the way. Any content that you can buy should be available by other means in-game unless it's appearance specific only.
The current crop of F2P conversions just make you feel like a second class citizen before you even get a chance to enjoy the game.