I'm pretty sure most would be surprised by the poll trend.
Then out of the result the only thing that most people disagree with is the lack of social clothing tab. Even the space shooter gets twice as many votes for it than against.
However I see were the OP is going and I tend to agree. I saw quite a few videos of the game and I felt there was way too much talking and not enough action. Also the more we have infos the more I tend to think the proper name should be SW the restricted wars/republic. It seems way too many features are set on tube™ limited species, limited weapons choices, imposed space ship chassis, etc... Not that I'm looking for a SWG 2 but I want to play a MMO, not watch a movie nor read a SW book either.
I "kind of" agree with you.
Having played a "grinder" for years, finding "story" as a background for doing these things felt liberating. Going into a field and grinding mobs is relaxing but I'd rather have story attached.
I loved Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 so I don't mind the interactive movie part.
thing is, people are conflating two separate issues.
Having is a story is great. (my opinion) Having a story that one can bypass if they want is greater as it gives players choice.
I'm always all about choice.
so where I agree with you is your point of having separate chasis for each side. Of course one side is just going to have tie fighters and another side x wings. but what about just getting a generic ship, customizing it and then using it?
Of course this game really is about the characters and so the space sim part is, at least for launch, somewhat light.
I want an open world that has story elelments but doesn't force story bits down player's throats. However, we really haven't seen how bioware is going to incorporate those two things. They say that one can just go and explore. But what that means is yet to be seen.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The more story, = the less mmo feeling. I expect lot of instance and individual story that all players have to go trought.
I like Bioware game, but all that story and npc talking into an mmorpg, i rather play a single player game with the same idea's.
The more I read poster reactions regarding the subject story, the more I think it's a personal preference and taste that differs from one player to the next.
The MMORPG's LotrO and AoC had more story and NPC talking in their questing than WoW and EQ2, still they felt more immersive than those 2. I'd even say that AoC and LotrO felt more MMO immersive and community minded than WoW and EQ2 were.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The more story, = the less mmo feeling. I expect lot of instance and individual story that all players have to go trought.
I like Bioware game, but all that story and npc talking into an mmorpg, i rather play a single player game with the same idea's.
I have to agree with this. Based upon the article, it really seems that Bioware is focusing too much on ONLY the story and not the elements of the game that will make it an MMO you will want to come back to over and over. While Bioware has said there will be things to do once you finish a characters story in the game, it bothers me that one of those things they use to suggest replayability is to "play another class". That might be fine but what happens after you do that 8 times? Then what? In most MMO's that I play (and continue to pay a sub to) are the ones that have a lot to do once you get done with the "story". I am truly afraid that once I finish this game with one or two or three classes, I will just end up cancelling my sub and going to play some other MMO. Also, considering the less then MMO feel of the announced space combat system, it doesn't settle those feelings.
Free-range MMO: You roll up a character, start off in some area, choose your destiny as an adventurer, explorer, crafter, or whatever you choose to be, maybe some combination of those things. You choose where you go and your "adventures" are your interactions and groups with other people.
Storyline MMO: You roll up a character and follow some linear plotline, cutscene by cutscene, and in the end have accomplished exactly the same dry scripted adventure as everyone else. Maybe you all ended up fighting and defeating Darth Vader in an instance or something.
See, it's all really an issue of shared dynamic storylines vs some endlessly repeated single player storyline. MMO's are a lot more than the latter, and if this game is the latter, I predict it will FAIL to achieve its subscriber goals.
That's where you and I obviously disagree.
Here's my example.
Free range MMO: While this design is the tried and true approach to MMO design. I feel it has grown stale, here's why. In all of these games, there is a story element. Yet that element has hardly been tapped into, story has yet to reach its full potential in an mmo.
In all of these games there are arbitrary means of collecting story data. Mostly given through boring text that has little to no relevance to the overall arch that is being presented in the game. Something like kill 10 wolves for farmer brown. Would be a good example of what I'm harping on here.
In all of these games there is a need to level, in order to actually take part in semi-good content. Be it PVP or endgame PVE. What was the point in all of my grinding and labor? In most of these games the process is tedious and stocked full of mundane meaningless questing/adventuring. What you call room for personal story, I call lazy development. As I am perfectly capable of imagining an interesting background for my character and personality, while taking part in interesting as well as fun content. These games don't allow that, they not only expect you to write your own story, they expect you to supply your own fun.
Why bother building an imaginative great looking city, when so many will just pretend they're not seeing the same building copied and pasted over and over? Just as many expect you to just pretend you're taking part in grand adventure. WHile not actually taking the time to offer one.
Bioware Storyline MMO: No longer do I have to imagine I'm taking part in a grand adaventure, it will be presented to me as if I am. Leaving me more time to imagine a great personality and persona for my character.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
World-driving storylines are fine, but individual personal storylines, IMO, very much limit what an MMO can be, and often end up being little more than traditional offline single player game experiences.
How so? Considering there really hasn't been a game that incorporates story to the extent Bioware is providing. Where is the evidence and proof such a design takes away from MMO aspects? It could very well enhance the more traditional MMO features. The problem is we don't know, meaning this article may very well be full of hot air.
Here is "how so":
Free-range MMO: You roll up a character, start off in some area, choose your destiny as an adventurer, explorer, crafter, or whatever you choose to be, maybe some combination of those things. You choose where you go and your "adventures" are your interactions and groups with other people.
Storyline MMO: You roll up a character and follow some linear plotline, cutscene by cutscene, and in the end have accomplished exactly the same dry scripted adventure as everyone else. Maybe you all ended up fighting and defeating Darth Vader in an instance or something.
See, it's all really an issue of shared dynamic storylines vs some endlessly repeated single player storyline. MMO's are a lot more than the latter, and if this game is the latter, I predict it will FAIL to achieve its subscriber goals.
For many games that is only true if you want it to be true. For all the "I want to explore freely" that I see on these forums, it seems that when faced with some sort of story plotline it seems to circumvent any ability for the player to actually make his own choice when he clearly can.
LOTRO is a pretty story driven mmo. I bet I've played significanlty less quests than most people and have never even got out of book one for the main story.
Why? Becuase I chose how to play within that game and never allowed it to confine me. If I don't like a quest I don't do it. If I want to do a quest I do it in my own time.
But players allow themselves to be put on a rail and then follow that rail.
Same with Aion. Never finished the main quest to any significant level and have a lvl 46 (I think that's the level) character. I only did the quests I felt were interesting.
So I could easily reinterpret your statements as:
Free-Range MMO: go to a field and grind a lot, shoot the sh*t with some friends, pvp a bit and spend time organizing bits in my warehouse and then collecting stuff. Go out and explore a cave.
Storyline MMO: go to a field and grind a lot, shoot the sh*t with some friends, pvp a bit and spend time organizing bits in my warehouse and then collecting stuff. Find a quest that seems appropriate for my interest and do it. go out and explore a cave. Come back. Offered a quest that I don't want so go to another area and kill some things that need killin'. come back and find another interesting quest. Start it but then log off as it's late.
So both games offer options. The quest based game will have far more quests. And far more quests that you DON'T have to do.
There is this romanticized idea of a sandbox game where people think they are creating their own stories. Well, I'm pretty sure it's just the role players who are creating their own stories. Other than that it's Player A griefing player B and Player B smack talking and getting his buddies to come and roll Player A and then they both escalate the affair where the players gate hop so they don't get hit and smack talki back and forth.
Now, don't get me wrong, in the scheme of the game world, all the childishness aside, one can feel more weight behind his/her decisions when he plays a game that is more player driven such as L2. But you have to wade through quite a bit of stuff in order to get there. One of the great things about Lineage 2 was that the content for the most part was player interaction. ONe of the worst things was that it could just as easily devolve into nonsense.
You don't have to be led around by the nose in a quest based game if you don't want to. Just play in a way that feels right for you and ignore the things you don't like. Those quests are there for you to choose to do. But can choose to be a crafter, sell on the AH, choose your own adventure.
Case in point, in LOTRO I was exploring Moria because that's how I played it: I'd accept a quest or two and head out to see what trouble I could find and maybe I would find my quest objective... well I was looking toward an orc barricade when all of a sudden two role players passed me on a scouting mission. They were role playing in the general channel and essentially scouting a way through when they come across the orc barrier. They realize the way ahead was too dangerous and they headed back to report.
Nothing to do with any of the quests that LOTRO offers. They simply used what was at hand and made their own adventure. Does this mean you need to be a role player? No. But it does mean that you need to take an active role in how you play the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
SWTOR is not going to fail because its story driven. It will have huge sub #'s because A) its Star Wars and its Bioware. I think folks should research somemore before posting. The game has all of your standard MMO elements PVE/PVP/Crafting/End Game/Etc. Bioware has stated this numerous times, just not revealed yet. They aren't compromising anything just because they are adding story. If anything the story will make the game much more interesting. I think the uninformed believe the game is going to play just like KOTOR and drag you along a linear world. Wrong. Bioware has hinted that many of the 15 planets are bigger than an entire WoW continent......thats a whole heck of alot to explore. Its also been stated by the devs the game is 95% open world; 5% instanced.
Because of these specific restrictions that Michael points at in his article Bioware is actually able to stay on the market and stay strong, not create one, two crappy games and file for bancruptcy. Star Wars is an Intellectual Property. I can give an example of a game where you can be everyone and do everything, except that game has little IP behind it and overall game just sucks, even though people still play it because there is little else to play and game has a lot to offer.
There is another game similar to what Bioware is working on, that game is made by Turbine and built based on another intellectual property. LOTRO had a lot of restrictions in the beginning and game turned out to be very good and welcomed by a LOTR fans very widely. Maybe it wasn't as good for raiders like that other game, but it was built based on a story which made it so much better than WoW.
I don't know if Bioware is trying to attract every 12 year old kid with SWTOR or they are actually creating a quality product based on solid IP that people will enjoy because of that IP. I actually hope that Bioware will develop SWTOR keeping in mind deep story and lore behind the star wars. If this will distract people who cares less about story and make them not to buy the game - I think its a sacrifice that must be taken in order to create a good game appropriate to the story and canons of SW.
Not every MMO has to be "good MMO" if it makes the developers sacrifice the story elements, or cinematic experiences so that every 12 year old pee in their pants from excitement. There is a potential in every MMO, but Bioware is earned a reputation of a company that always released the games heavy on story. You can't have every mob raidable and on the other hand have a game that is focused on experience based on exciting story lines. Its a proven fact. Bioware wouldn't be Bioware if they've created a type of Star Wars MMO like SOE did, and they would have been even less Bioware if they'd create a game with some elements only because its COOL and supposed to attract every kid on the block.
Star Wars is a serious IP and Bioware is a serious game developer. I hope they will always keep close to their reputation as first of all the best company for creating RPGs. And even though some people may find that SWTOR lacks some freedoms of other MMOs it will definitely be a great experience story wise. Which I bet most of star wars fans and bioware fans are hoping for.
After all there are many games where we can raid monsters and very few that have any decent story in them. I'd say there is no story problem, there is a problem that people expect every MMO to have huge raids, PvP and yellow pants. Thats of course figure of speech. But as Michael mentioned there is a justification behind every step that Bioware takes. And its not just an ambition, even though ambition is a mandatory for creating GOOD games. Its ambition and IP and company's reputation.
So your whole objection boils down to you feeling it is not a good idea. I am sorry, but I actual expected you to give some reasons to your assertion. If you ever plan to right a negative and critical article again please do us the readers a favor and actual make an argument for your point.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
When i see constant articles like this with no specifics its bothersome to me..
This is why i didnt pre-order this game...becasue they are trying to not show specific things with this game...instead they keep harping on how its going to be story driven....and they show cinematics..not actual game play much....the game is almost out so why are they hiding things?
Everygame i have played has been story driven i hate to say....so i am wondering exactly what they mean by their version of saying its story driven.
I wonder just how bad the game is to be hiding the information about it.
When i see constant articles like this with no specifics its bothersome to me..
This is why i didnt pre-order this game...becasue they are trying to not show specific things with this game...instead they keep harping on how its going to be story driven....and they show cinematics..not actual game play much....the game is almost out so why are they hiding things?
Everygame i have played has been story driven i hate to say....so i am wondering exactly what they mean by their version of saying its story driven.
I wonder just how bad the game is to be hiding the information about it.
I would not expect them to release specifics yet; we still are a long ways away from release. They have been very specific about their version of what story driven means; just go to their website. This was a very reckless article no where does the writer every give any specific reasons to their claims, so I would not let it bother you.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
After reading this incitful article, I'm disappointed in what is being attempted by the game developer. Story driven MMO's are very linear in how you play the game and what you have to accomplish in-game in order to advance. This game is losing its interest to me. And apparently allot of others as I keep seeing the hype meter for the game dropping.
After reading this incitful article, I'm disappointed in what is being attempted by the game developer. Story driven MMO's are very linear in how you play the game and what you have to accomplish in-game in order to advance. This game is losing its interest to me. And apparently allot of others as I keep seeing the hype meter for the game dropping.
Insightful? You are kidding write? This article is an example of lazy journalism at best. He does not even offer any evidence for his claim; instead he makes a claim then uses completely unrelated comments to support his "argument". For an Op-Ed piece this is just bad.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
oh my god, just don't tell me they have problems designing a story ASWELL
seriously? how blunt is the industry becoming? i'm getting sick of those news (not to blame this board). it's just pathetic into what they invest their money. Bright grafics and "coooooool" looking stuff.
Glad I can see I feel like I'm getting to old for this stuff and had a wonderful time watching it all grew up in my youth and remember hundreds of unique Games.
LOL Did you even read the article? Or just the title?
Couldn't the same complaint be made about GW2 and their personal story system *hides*
Maybe, except GW2 isn't expecting a monthly subscription fee for their game. I think these limitations would be taken in a completely different manner if the game was say KOTOR with cooperative play because it wouldn't be asking for MMO prices while, maybe, not offering an MMO experience. It's too early to say how this will turn out, but i will say that. I am barely following this game anymore. I catch the headlines and that's it. I've lost most of my interest awhile ago aftering watching combat footage, rail space shooting, restrictive races and not a lot of "good" info coming out of the bioware camp, other than the most overused word ever... story.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
In other words, humanoid characters are more Star Warsish, not less.
But that doesn't mean that Chewbacca, C-3PO, R2-D2, Admiral Akbar, and Jabba the Hutt won't be in the game or "playable" (in a sense) by the player because they will be companion characters. If you like Wookies. you could have a Wookie as your companion character the enitre time.
Sounds like you'd fit in the Empire just fine.
Turning sapient intelligent lifeforms ( only aesthetically different than humans and more advanced in some cases ) into nothing more than "pets".
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
What worries me about TOR is not that they are being different so much as how they are going all-in on being different.
LOTRO lived long and well on sub numbers that were only considered a "success" before WoW came out, because it was enough to balance the books. Cryptic lives on like some kind of revenant studio because they budgeted so low for their games that they didn't need many subs to break even and start making money. TOR, though, doesn't have those options.
TOR has been widely publicized as the most expensive MMO, quite possibly the most expensive game of any type, ever developed. With the budget numbers that have been thrown around, Bioware has gone so deep in the hole on this one that their offices are probably a bit toasty with a hint of sulfur and the echoing screams of the damned. There is no niche market success in this game's future. It's WoW-scale blockbuster or death.
That's a hell of a gamble on the idea that single-player RPG story is the missing Holy Grail that has kept other games from matching WoW. EA is supposedly "less evil" now, but that is still a lot of change to be rolling the dice on. They've "executed" studios, well known and liked studios, for failures with a LOT less zeroes in the final total.
Bioware hasn't disappointed me yet (well, except on DLC), but I'm afraid they might have overplayed their hand here. I hope like hell I'm wrong, because I'd love to see this catch on. I just don't have faith there are enough people out there who really care about story enough to put this game in the black.
wwwwwoooooo, to all the people that dare doubt bioware. what are ya'll thinking. they didn't make a fail game yet and to say the attempt at story driven mmo is a bad thing. this game is going to be epic
Having a MMO where there is a storyline is bound to cause issues. AoC had the problem that we were all the main hero and lavishing time on that meant that some higher levels were devoid of quests. I think people will take to the story, but it will cause problems. Any element of a MMO, be it PvR, PvP, grouping, solo, auction house, crafting etc, can cause problems with the other elements.
Sabrel - Lotro was released after WoW, not before it.
All I know is that I flinched when I saw 2 different players run the same content and have their characters say EXACTLY the same thing to the NPC quest giver in response to his statement...
This game will sell well in the first 1-3 months, for sure, but watch it die on it's arse after that when all the players have finished 'their' stories.
wwwwwoooooo, to all the people that dare doubt bioware. what are ya'll thinking. they didn't make a fail game yet and to say the attempt at story driven mmo is a bad thing. this game is going to be epic
No, their games sell well, no argument, but you can't say they have never made bad design decisions.
Otherwise, why did they feel they needed to rebuild ME2 after ME1? And they still went with the mind numbing planet scanning system... What about rebuilding DA2 after DA1 as well? They themselves MUST think their original design wasnt what they wanted? What about the very questionable quality of most of the DLC for DA, while we are talking about it?
This isnt the perfect design studio that a lot of it's more rabid fans try to claim.. and that comes from a long time customer of theirs.
I was really interested in this game but when they started to reveal the playable races i thought to myself these are all to human as a matter a fact they almost looked like simply reskinned human models with bits stuck on.
I was hoping to be able to play as a droid or some funky looking alien my interest in this game has dropped.The race choices do not appeal to me at all. The reasson they have given for only playing human like races is a total cop out to me.
Comments
I "kind of" agree with you.
Having played a "grinder" for years, finding "story" as a background for doing these things felt liberating. Going into a field and grinding mobs is relaxing but I'd rather have story attached.
I loved Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 so I don't mind the interactive movie part.
thing is, people are conflating two separate issues.
Having is a story is great. (my opinion) Having a story that one can bypass if they want is greater as it gives players choice.
I'm always all about choice.
so where I agree with you is your point of having separate chasis for each side. Of course one side is just going to have tie fighters and another side x wings. but what about just getting a generic ship, customizing it and then using it?
Of course this game really is about the characters and so the space sim part is, at least for launch, somewhat light.
I want an open world that has story elelments but doesn't force story bits down player's throats. However, we really haven't seen how bioware is going to incorporate those two things. They say that one can just go and explore. But what that means is yet to be seen.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The more story, = the less mmo feeling. I expect lot of instance and individual story that all players have to go trought.
I like Bioware game, but all that story and npc talking into an mmorpg, i rather play a single player game with the same idea's.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
The more I read poster reactions regarding the subject story, the more I think it's a personal preference and taste that differs from one player to the next.
The MMORPG's LotrO and AoC had more story and NPC talking in their questing than WoW and EQ2, still they felt more immersive than those 2. I'd even say that AoC and LotrO felt more MMO immersive and community minded than WoW and EQ2 were.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So forum posts are making the front page?
I have to agree with this. Based upon the article, it really seems that Bioware is focusing too much on ONLY the story and not the elements of the game that will make it an MMO you will want to come back to over and over. While Bioware has said there will be things to do once you finish a characters story in the game, it bothers me that one of those things they use to suggest replayability is to "play another class". That might be fine but what happens after you do that 8 times? Then what? In most MMO's that I play (and continue to pay a sub to) are the ones that have a lot to do once you get done with the "story". I am truly afraid that once I finish this game with one or two or three classes, I will just end up cancelling my sub and going to play some other MMO. Also, considering the less then MMO feel of the announced space combat system, it doesn't settle those feelings.
Let's party like it is 1863!
That's where you and I obviously disagree.
Here's my example.
Free range MMO: While this design is the tried and true approach to MMO design. I feel it has grown stale, here's why. In all of these games, there is a story element. Yet that element has hardly been tapped into, story has yet to reach its full potential in an mmo.
In all of these games there are arbitrary means of collecting story data. Mostly given through boring text that has little to no relevance to the overall arch that is being presented in the game. Something like kill 10 wolves for farmer brown. Would be a good example of what I'm harping on here.
In all of these games there is a need to level, in order to actually take part in semi-good content. Be it PVP or endgame PVE. What was the point in all of my grinding and labor? In most of these games the process is tedious and stocked full of mundane meaningless questing/adventuring. What you call room for personal story, I call lazy development. As I am perfectly capable of imagining an interesting background for my character and personality, while taking part in interesting as well as fun content. These games don't allow that, they not only expect you to write your own story, they expect you to supply your own fun.
Why bother building an imaginative great looking city, when so many will just pretend they're not seeing the same building copied and pasted over and over? Just as many expect you to just pretend you're taking part in grand adventure. WHile not actually taking the time to offer one.
Bioware Storyline MMO: No longer do I have to imagine I'm taking part in a grand adaventure, it will be presented to me as if I am. Leaving me more time to imagine a great personality and persona for my character.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For many games that is only true if you want it to be true. For all the "I want to explore freely" that I see on these forums, it seems that when faced with some sort of story plotline it seems to circumvent any ability for the player to actually make his own choice when he clearly can.
LOTRO is a pretty story driven mmo. I bet I've played significanlty less quests than most people and have never even got out of book one for the main story.
Why? Becuase I chose how to play within that game and never allowed it to confine me. If I don't like a quest I don't do it. If I want to do a quest I do it in my own time.
But players allow themselves to be put on a rail and then follow that rail.
Same with Aion. Never finished the main quest to any significant level and have a lvl 46 (I think that's the level) character. I only did the quests I felt were interesting.
So I could easily reinterpret your statements as:
Free-Range MMO: go to a field and grind a lot, shoot the sh*t with some friends, pvp a bit and spend time organizing bits in my warehouse and then collecting stuff. Go out and explore a cave.
Storyline MMO: go to a field and grind a lot, shoot the sh*t with some friends, pvp a bit and spend time organizing bits in my warehouse and then collecting stuff. Find a quest that seems appropriate for my interest and do it. go out and explore a cave. Come back. Offered a quest that I don't want so go to another area and kill some things that need killin'. come back and find another interesting quest. Start it but then log off as it's late.
So both games offer options. The quest based game will have far more quests. And far more quests that you DON'T have to do.
There is this romanticized idea of a sandbox game where people think they are creating their own stories. Well, I'm pretty sure it's just the role players who are creating their own stories. Other than that it's Player A griefing player B and Player B smack talking and getting his buddies to come and roll Player A and then they both escalate the affair where the players gate hop so they don't get hit and smack talki back and forth.
Now, don't get me wrong, in the scheme of the game world, all the childishness aside, one can feel more weight behind his/her decisions when he plays a game that is more player driven such as L2. But you have to wade through quite a bit of stuff in order to get there. One of the great things about Lineage 2 was that the content for the most part was player interaction. ONe of the worst things was that it could just as easily devolve into nonsense.
You don't have to be led around by the nose in a quest based game if you don't want to. Just play in a way that feels right for you and ignore the things you don't like. Those quests are there for you to choose to do. But can choose to be a crafter, sell on the AH, choose your own adventure.
Case in point, in LOTRO I was exploring Moria because that's how I played it: I'd accept a quest or two and head out to see what trouble I could find and maybe I would find my quest objective... well I was looking toward an orc barricade when all of a sudden two role players passed me on a scouting mission. They were role playing in the general channel and essentially scouting a way through when they come across the orc barrier. They realize the way ahead was too dangerous and they headed back to report.
Nothing to do with any of the quests that LOTRO offers. They simply used what was at hand and made their own adventure. Does this mean you need to be a role player? No. But it does mean that you need to take an active role in how you play the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
SWTOR is not going to fail because its story driven. It will have huge sub #'s because A) its Star Wars and
its Bioware. I think folks should research somemore before posting. The game has all of your standard MMO elements PVE/PVP/Crafting/End Game/Etc. Bioware has stated this numerous times, just not revealed yet. They aren't compromising anything just because they are adding story. If anything the story will make the game much more interesting. I think the uninformed believe the game is going to play just like KOTOR and drag you along a linear world. Wrong. Bioware has hinted that many of the 15 planets are bigger than an entire WoW continent......thats a whole heck of alot to explore. Its also been stated by the devs the game is 95% open world; 5% instanced.
~Xiara D'Aarmon
Because of these specific restrictions that Michael points at in his article Bioware is actually able to stay on the market and stay strong, not create one, two crappy games and file for bancruptcy. Star Wars is an Intellectual Property. I can give an example of a game where you can be everyone and do everything, except that game has little IP behind it and overall game just sucks, even though people still play it because there is little else to play and game has a lot to offer.
There is another game similar to what Bioware is working on, that game is made by Turbine and built based on another intellectual property. LOTRO had a lot of restrictions in the beginning and game turned out to be very good and welcomed by a LOTR fans very widely. Maybe it wasn't as good for raiders like that other game, but it was built based on a story which made it so much better than WoW.
I don't know if Bioware is trying to attract every 12 year old kid with SWTOR or they are actually creating a quality product based on solid IP that people will enjoy because of that IP. I actually hope that Bioware will develop SWTOR keeping in mind deep story and lore behind the star wars. If this will distract people who cares less about story and make them not to buy the game - I think its a sacrifice that must be taken in order to create a good game appropriate to the story and canons of SW.
Not every MMO has to be "good MMO" if it makes the developers sacrifice the story elements, or cinematic experiences so that every 12 year old pee in their pants from excitement. There is a potential in every MMO, but Bioware is earned a reputation of a company that always released the games heavy on story. You can't have every mob raidable and on the other hand have a game that is focused on experience based on exciting story lines. Its a proven fact. Bioware wouldn't be Bioware if they've created a type of Star Wars MMO like SOE did, and they would have been even less Bioware if they'd create a game with some elements only because its COOL and supposed to attract every kid on the block.
Star Wars is a serious IP and Bioware is a serious game developer. I hope they will always keep close to their reputation as first of all the best company for creating RPGs. And even though some people may find that SWTOR lacks some freedoms of other MMOs it will definitely be a great experience story wise. Which I bet most of star wars fans and bioware fans are hoping for.
After all there are many games where we can raid monsters and very few that have any decent story in them. I'd say there is no story problem, there is a problem that people expect every MMO to have huge raids, PvP and yellow pants. Thats of course figure of speech. But as Michael mentioned there is a justification behind every step that Bioware takes. And its not just an ambition, even though ambition is a mandatory for creating GOOD games. Its ambition and IP and company's reputation.
So your whole objection boils down to you feeling it is not a good idea. I am sorry, but I actual expected you to give some reasons to your assertion. If you ever plan to right a negative and critical article again please do us the readers a favor and actual make an argument for your point.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
When i see constant articles like this with no specifics its bothersome to me..
This is why i didnt pre-order this game...becasue they are trying to not show specific things with this game...instead they keep harping on how its going to be story driven....and they show cinematics..not actual game play much....the game is almost out so why are they hiding things?
Everygame i have played has been story driven i hate to say....so i am wondering exactly what they mean by their version of saying its story driven.
I wonder just how bad the game is to be hiding the information about it.
I would not expect them to release specifics yet; we still are a long ways away from release. They have been very specific about their version of what story driven means; just go to their website. This was a very reckless article no where does the writer every give any specific reasons to their claims, so I would not let it bother you.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
This game will become a 'f2p' after about a year or so. Well, technically a b2p.
After reading this incitful article, I'm disappointed in what is being attempted by the game developer. Story driven MMO's are very linear in how you play the game and what you have to accomplish in-game in order to advance. This game is losing its interest to me. And apparently allot of others as I keep seeing the hype meter for the game dropping.
Insightful? You are kidding write? This article is an example of lazy journalism at best. He does not even offer any evidence for his claim; instead he makes a claim then uses completely unrelated comments to support his "argument". For an Op-Ed piece this is just bad.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
LOL Did you even read the article? Or just the title?
Maybe, except GW2 isn't expecting a monthly subscription fee for their game. I think these limitations would be taken in a completely different manner if the game was say KOTOR with cooperative play because it wouldn't be asking for MMO prices while, maybe, not offering an MMO experience. It's too early to say how this will turn out, but i will say that. I am barely following this game anymore. I catch the headlines and that's it. I've lost most of my interest awhile ago aftering watching combat footage, rail space shooting, restrictive races and not a lot of "good" info coming out of the bioware camp, other than the most overused word ever... story.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Sounds like you'd fit in the Empire just fine.
Turning sapient intelligent lifeforms ( only aesthetically different than humans and more advanced in some cases ) into nothing more than "pets".
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
What worries me about TOR is not that they are being different so much as how they are going all-in on being different.
LOTRO lived long and well on sub numbers that were only considered a "success" before WoW came out, because it was enough to balance the books. Cryptic lives on like some kind of revenant studio because they budgeted so low for their games that they didn't need many subs to break even and start making money. TOR, though, doesn't have those options.
TOR has been widely publicized as the most expensive MMO, quite possibly the most expensive game of any type, ever developed. With the budget numbers that have been thrown around, Bioware has gone so deep in the hole on this one that their offices are probably a bit toasty with a hint of sulfur and the echoing screams of the damned. There is no niche market success in this game's future. It's WoW-scale blockbuster or death.
That's a hell of a gamble on the idea that single-player RPG story is the missing Holy Grail that has kept other games from matching WoW. EA is supposedly "less evil" now, but that is still a lot of change to be rolling the dice on. They've "executed" studios, well known and liked studios, for failures with a LOT less zeroes in the final total.
Bioware hasn't disappointed me yet (well, except on DLC), but I'm afraid they might have overplayed their hand here. I hope like hell I'm wrong, because I'd love to see this catch on. I just don't have faith there are enough people out there who really care about story enough to put this game in the black.
wwwwwoooooo, to all the people that dare doubt bioware. what are ya'll thinking. they didn't make a fail game yet and to say the attempt at story driven mmo is a bad thing. this game is going to be epic
Having a MMO where there is a storyline is bound to cause issues. AoC had the problem that we were all the main hero and lavishing time on that meant that some higher levels were devoid of quests. I think people will take to the story, but it will cause problems. Any element of a MMO, be it PvR, PvP, grouping, solo, auction house, crafting etc, can cause problems with the other elements.
Sabrel - Lotro was released after WoW, not before it.
I SO Agree with first post, really... i wouldnt call this an article for shit. Staff is getting nothing to write about?
All I know is that I flinched when I saw 2 different players run the same content and have their characters say EXACTLY the same thing to the NPC quest giver in response to his statement...
This game will sell well in the first 1-3 months, for sure, but watch it die on it's arse after that when all the players have finished 'their' stories.
No, their games sell well, no argument, but you can't say they have never made bad design decisions.
Otherwise, why did they feel they needed to rebuild ME2 after ME1? And they still went with the mind numbing planet scanning system... What about rebuilding DA2 after DA1 as well? They themselves MUST think their original design wasnt what they wanted? What about the very questionable quality of most of the DLC for DA, while we are talking about it?
This isnt the perfect design studio that a lot of it's more rabid fans try to claim.. and that comes from a long time customer of theirs.
I was really interested in this game but when they started to reveal the playable races i thought to myself these are all to human as a matter a fact they almost looked like simply reskinned human models with bits stuck on.
I was hoping to be able to play as a droid or some funky looking alien my interest in this game has dropped.The race choices do not appeal to me at all. The reasson they have given for only playing human like races is a total cop out to me.