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General: Fighting Talk: Old vs New MMOs Part 2

135

Comments

  • VymmVymm Member Posts: 112

    No contest the old content and games were real MMOs.  This stuff now is watered down and ready to play for the masses.  The "fast food" of MMOs if you will.  The sad part is .. we have no good options anymore with newer graphics and storylines.  Long live EQ1 and the days of cold chills when you logged into a new zone and saw the red cons.

     

    image

  • UOvetUOvet Member Posts: 514

    If they would've only went through with UO2. That trailer was awesome.

  • ray12kray12k Member UncommonPosts: 487

    All mmorpg's bow to Asherons call 1 lol

     

    I think new games still have a community its just more kiddies and ass hats are in the mix now.

  • drake_hounddrake_hound Member Posts: 773

    New MMOs definetly wins hands down with implementation , sorry if you want to grind there are still tons of timesinks.

    In any new MMO product , just sadly the timesinks are not so rewarding in status or specialty compared to the old MMO .

     

    whats bad about New MMO is the communities , with the old loving or die hard community spread out among multiple games.

    It was to expected , the new generation simply dont care about building a community ,  but more about themself (not thats something newm mmo  games dying out , usually happens the same way)

    The influx of people nerdrage went skyhigh , and kids and ass hat attitude really has hit the limit .

    But thats a byproduct of modern society where nobody teaches the kids to accept a NO for answer.

    Well other side NEW MMO always finds a way to attract the asshats and kids back , with a candy .

    So thats the positive side , and also NEW MMO shows how much people can spend on virtual good.

    And trust me its a lot more then most people on these forums say .

     

    I think maybe we should all blaim SOE for SWG gutting that brought the change from old to new mmo .

    Ah well you can´t change time , so you either accept it or just pass on it :)

  • MeyithiMeyithi Member Posts: 48

    I miss "Subway" or "Hub" - no Auction House, just a mass den of filth filled with players spamming for trades.  If you were bored you could just go hang out in subway for 1/2 an hour and see what was going on.  You'd have noobs in Arwic lining up at the shop to see what higher level players has sold, a row of matty coats and olthoi helms.  Portal Storms could result in your mule being killed by a wasp if you were too encumbered, the world was alive.  Before secure trading there were infamous thieves (Mote and Shard Mule!)  and when you traded you had to have trust that when you gave a player an item that you'd get something back.

    There's no reason why some middle ground can't be found.  Random loot for example, no item sets, just let mobs in instances have a higher change of dropping tighter loot.  Take away Auction houses and have a trading area where players have to actually interact with other players to trade.

     

     

  • CzechGuyCzechGuy Member Posts: 86

    Another thing which made me love the old MMO's were that there were Named spawns in most places which added a big excitement factor when you saw a named mob up and could get a piece of loot or you would use tracj inside a dungeon and notice a rare named was upinside and you would rush to get a group together to claim the camp/mob before someone else got there.

    Alot of the old EQ mobs had a common and rare as well so when that rare dropped it made it extra awesome.

    Nowadays there arent really placeholders or camps. there are virtually NO contested mobs and if there are they drop worthless junk noone would ever buy. Named in EQ1 usually had a rare drop which was worth something. EQ2 has some of that but its just not the same and all the dungeons nowadays are instanced.

    but now we have vendors who you give barter coins or other trinkets to for gear in newer mmo's. note to MMO devs. THIS ISNT FUN.

    I also enjoyed worlds that felt like worlds full of players. Nowadays however most gameworlds have become devoid of activity outside auction halls and player housing where people can just stay to que up any dungeon they want like they are doing matchmaking in a friggin FPS game like HALO or COD. its terrible.

    LOTRO held out for awhile but LOTRO just added a tool which allows you to just pull up a window and que up an entire group or raid now which means unless people are doing quest hubs the world will be devoid of people traveling from place to place. It just kills immersion. Im not against fast travel but this just goes to far.

    I will say this about EQ1 tho.....corpse runs were completely unnessecary. exp loss was fine. If corpse runs NEVER return to any MMO i sure wont shed a tear.

  • ZalonzaZalonza Member Posts: 17

    omg this fighting talk is about nothing the Old mmos rrly arent better

  • goemoegoemoe Member UncommonPosts: 290

    This has been one opinion of one guy, who not even played many of those games, otherwise his ratings would have been much different. Just some bs talk, to ignite some forumposts. It worked for me, but this topic could have been done much better. A pity.

  • DokeDoke Member Posts: 1

    I loved trains. If someone was ksing or being a dick I would create a train and feign death on them with my monk. Very effective at keeping people in line.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751

    For once I agree, some sensible scoring there. Your comment on the community aspect was particularly spot on.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • OdditiesOddities Member Posts: 16

    The only thing i would score higher for the old-skool mmos would be "time-sink"

    Nothing like playing for 3 hours and then losing all the exp to a lag spike or a disconect.

    Face it, fun is more important than immersion. RIP the lot of them.

  • judex99judex99 Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Today dungeons are a joke compared to old ones, why in the heck devs. dont make depth dungeons like EQ ones?

    This description of today dungeones is very accurate "...small linear, Disney theme dungeons."

    /sad

  • Micro_angelMicro_angel Member UncommonPosts: 87

    Oh cmon people, any past time wasn´t better, your just nostalgic thats all.

     

    but yes, todays communities sucks in every game

  • trugamertrugamer Member UncommonPosts: 11

    I've not read the article, and I've not read any of your comments.......but from skimming, I can say it should not be old vs. new, but good vs. bad because it's simply a bunch of over hyped opinions.............if you want to play one of the best games ever made, find a balanced server of helbreath with bonus items and PvP..........

    medium levelling rate, so your required to go galavanting to dungeons and underwater arenas, tower of hell etc. (this games locations are huge for such an oldy MUD)

    the weapons are magnificent, and PvP is pure teamwork, mages protect and nuke, batttlemages can take care of their own but need some healing, warriors need healing whilst providing the crux of the damage base, with town raids, crusades, battle golems, this game is just crazy............it has bested every other piece of random mmo tail i've ever hit.

    weapons even have different properties apart from super elite weapons which you get only during end game PvP after having collected enough points.

     

    THERE ARE OLD MUDS like this, then there is WOW..........then their is guildwars, almost every game fits perfectly into these two categories........worth mentioning at least.

    I see what they are trying to get at, but it's a dry topic..........maybe do some topics on all the cool shit u can buy to help rep games i.e. T shirts, mugs, mouses and mats, booklets etc.

    i'd love to get me some cool accessories..........go and do my homework for me mmorpg.com :D

  • EQTarbosEQTarbos Member Posts: 130

    Old vs new     Old wins in most cases and what is missing is the community and skill function. Old mmos the Skill of players was a major factor in the game. Thanks to WoW and the little kids it dont matter on skill it mostly relys on armor sets and after you got the armor you smash buttons and win. Older mmos going on to pvp fights in daoc gear was good and gave u slight advantage but still skill played the major part. 

     

    Community. LOL this is a good one  The community makes the game. In the old days people where out to help people group up for hours and group up with new people reguardless if they where great or normal. In todays  everyone is like I need my char never to die have the best gear and I want to solo EVERYTHING. this screws a game b/c it takes away the most important thing for a MMO=Massive Maultiplayer Role playing game Online game, need to rename games that you can solo to the top MMOSRP= Massivly maultiplayer Solo role playing game.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

         As one person said.. The old MMO's was about the player, not about gear..  I miss those days of having a reputation as a good puller (monk), or crowd control/ buffer (chanter),  or healer/rezx (cleric) or support (druid/shaman) or nuker.. and most of all.. If you knew how to play your EQ1  >>  BARD << you were a god.. LOL  Twisting songs was an art to be admired..  Those were the days that you might have a group of 6, and each of you filled a different role, working in harmony..  Made you sad in way to call it quits for the day.. But as one person left the camp, another quickly jumped in..   Remember those days of, "Druid to the warrior room" (HK) or "Chanter to the hand room" (KC)..  Being social and having a reputation meant something.. We normally policed our own in the community..

        Good luck in finding a guild or group if you earned the rep of an asshole.. There was no "pay for a name change" back then.. So if you wanted to train people and just be a dork.. You quickly became blackballed.. Cuz no matter how skilled you where in the game if you didn't earn the respect of others, your end game days were limited..

  • NeopaganNeopagan Member Posts: 34

    Hmm contentious issues I am not going to butt in on the argument I am just going to give you guys my opinion; I prefer solo playing than group playing I make no bones about that. If I do group it is with RL friends - I started with DAoC way back in the day. And I must admit I did group more then, the community did seem more mature. Perhaps it is because I am older and I cannot put up with imbecilic comments or players that are loose cannons I do not know. But it seems to me the latest batch of MMO players the majority (in my experience) are immature, sugar addicted, pre-pubescent ass hats. They want to level fast and get the best gear at the expense of everyone else ... doesn't anyone play for fun anymore? I immerse myself into a game and am them pleasantly surprised when that unexpected ding occurs. Solo playing in early MMO's was harsh, take no prisoners, dangerous scary which I agree is sorely lacking in modern renditions. However I think early games were biased to community play I do not have a problem with that  - as I am a firm believer in giving the player a choice, to group or not to group. Fine toss in a couple of dungeon crawls that can only be completed in a group but this should not be done at the expense of solo content. The secret is to get a good balance of both play styles.

    One major thing I do not miss about vintage games is KSing and camping that was rife. It was my one major gripe - spending 20 minutes just waiting for a boss to spawn only to see him slaughtered by a random player on a fly through. That is not fun I will never ever miss that. This kind of leads into public dungeons yes they can work but they were also subject to the aforementioned camping policy. So I rarely entered them, again I see a middle path where there is a healthy balance of public and private, solo and group content. This seems to me to be the best option not only for the player base but for the company's coffers. A wider appeal will surely be condusive to a healthier population.

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    The angel of death has been abroad throughout the land; you may almost hear the beating of his wings.

    House of Commons, 23 Feb. 1855

  • tanoriltanoril Member Posts: 432

    I think it's funny that people defend trains as a good game mechanic whereas back then it was nothing but an endless cause for frustration.  Sitting in Karnors by the entrance and someone training the left side when everyone is yelling right isn't 'fun' or 'gives a sense of danger'.  It gives a sense of aggravation, at least it did everytime it happened to me, as well as the 15 of so people in the area at the time since chat would be filled with all sorts of curses.  Fighting in Mistmoore and someone (not in your group) training the whole zone on you and then faced with a run from Kelethin didn't prompt me to say 'hey that was fun, lets do it again'.

    I got to question how much everquest everyone here has played.  I agree, it had community down in spades but it had more to do with the game forcing that aspect on to you due to the way it was.  It had some very good dungeons but as others have said, you went in there and camped a room most of the time, usually for a specific drop (FBSS in Guk for example).  I don't call that dungeon crawling.  Dungeon crawling is running the whole dungeon from start to finish. 

  • ErythrocyteErythrocyte Member Posts: 103

    The Fallen Earth community is very good, I think it's one of the few of the newer MMOs.  I think it's mainly becuse the chat channels are monitored by GMs and they're pretty quick to stop things when they occur, so those of us that wouldn't normally stick around when we see dumb stuff happening stay.

  • WW4BWWW4BW Member UncommonPosts: 501

    Originally posted by simmihi

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Frostbite05



    solo for old should be lik 3/10 it was horrible. Dungeons back in the day were all tank and spank for hours which should be 5/10 and thats high just for nostalgic reasons.


     

    EQ was not the only 'oldschool' game, and it's the only one that was so rigidly locked into that model. Pretty much every other 'oldschool' MMO allowed for high levels of dungeon soloing if you were good at the game.

    "You have reached level +1. You gain 100 HP and 1 point in INT and STA. You automatically gain new skills/spells. Please don't bother, leveling up is not an important event in your character's life, continue quest grinding".

    Everyone running damage number add-ons turning everything into an ego race with mashing buttons in ways which make players more or less "skilled". I do not want to play First Person Shooters online.

    Everyone checking equipment when inviting you. Bosses scripted that someone can wipe a full raid if they lag or disconnect. People "do the bosses" which interests them in terms of loot and then leave, with or without a reason... no i'm not impressed with nowaday's games / dungeons. On top of that, we get bad communities and close-to-zero horizontal development - new content comes with increased level cap and a total rewamp of the classes so everything which you have planned or acumulated becomes obsolete. The "leveling up an alt" experience is forced on one and only path, and with 17 level cap increases it all becomes not only not-enjoyable but nasty.

    I'd take the tank & spank and boss camping approach anyday. At least it offered some form of accomplishment. I want to get back the communities and most of all the depth of the games where the actual RPG part - character planning, skill distribution etc. - counts. Where, if you gain a level, you don't automatically get a "new spell rank" which automatically does 50% more damage than the previous rank.

    I don't mind if it's not "sandbox", i actually like some direction. It seems to me that both genres, sandbox and themepark, go with it too far. Today the sandbox games are mostly huge and empty, you have zero guidance and you see one person in 3 hours, while the theme park ones just do not offer enough "depth" to "catch" me. I play them for 2-3 hours then i realise it will end up in a gear-grinding-button-mashing thing and they automatically become boring.


     

     And EQ and other old games werent just tank and spank. There were many more ways to fight back then. Encounters werent scripted and mobs werent tethered to a tiny spot. Old games did far more with far less. New games are so over engineered it takes most of the fun out of it.

     

    Sure it was a bit "wild west" back then. Many of the tactics and fighting techniques used in old games, are considered exploits in new games. And perhaps the players have grown too adept at finding and using any sort of loophole in the games to allow them to do that anymore. But to me it just feels like that new games are telling me there is only one way to play a fiddle.. Their way.

    In my oppinion even the players act like they are scripted NPCs in new MMOs.. Maybe that is why there are so many players ating immature in the new games. They are frustrated with the lack of posibilites to express their indiviuality.

  • anwaranwar Member UncommonPosts: 108

    I agree with about everything the author stated in this segment...except that song or quote or whatever that rant was at the beginning...waste of space.

     

    BUT, I also don't think there is much you can do to return to the past. 

    People are spoiled now....there is no death penalty so todays devs (lotro) make death routine...you "learn" an instance by wiping repeatedly, and that seems ok with everybody.  me. I'd like to see death a rarity because I still feel as if I've failed if I die.

    Too much solo...although I like solo.  Actually if solo yields good progression, then grouping is just too difficult because it is no longer something everyone does everyday and few get good at forming groups...it's not the mechanics of looking for group tools, it's just that grouping isn't the matter-of-course thing you do when you log on..  In my opinion, games should be almost totally either solo or group and be announced as such and hold to it so the community developes accordingly.

    instancing...it's isolating folks from interaction outside their clique or group or kin.  Outside of expansions the rest of the world looks dead. ...and mostly those non-instance areas have little reason to exist...the game just becomes a collection of mini-games that folks do over and over to get such and such.

    Personnally I'd love to see a game like old EQ,.... PvE, LONG leveling, grouping, a death penalty, and abilities that are heroic and WORK (no luck)....and without a little eye candy so more can fit on a server and NO silly gimmicks in the attempt to be original ( like diplomacy card games)...and cut down on instances and alts considerably.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Micro_angel

    Oh cmon people, any past time wasn´t better, your just nostalgic thats all.

     

    but yes, todays communities sucks in every game

    So you're going to play that game and just write it off? Can't be nostalgic about something you STILL play and still vividly remember. Vanguard was as close to oldschool as an MMO will ever get I think, game and community wise, and I had a blast, and that was just a few years ago. Its the mechanics, not the time.

    During Vanguard beta I ran into 2 people, the server was going to go down in a half hour. So what did we do? We ran off into the forest and killed ents and just talked in the chat. I can't remember the last time I did that in an MMO. (oh wait, it was like, 2003, Dark Age of Camelot) it was amazing. Made two good friends that night. New MMOs aren't about socializing or living in a virtual world, its about a series of boring mini games. If I wanted a good GAME I sure as hell wouldn't play an MMO, the gameplay mechanics are so behind that of single player games. If I wanted an immersive social virtual world experience, with some fun gameplay on the side, then I'd play MMOs.

  • shakermaker0shakermaker0 Member UncommonPosts: 194

    Originally posted by anwar

    I agree with about everything the author stated in this segment...except that song or quote or whatever that rant was at the beginning...waste of space.

     

     

    I thought it was a nice touch : [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBktYJsJq-E

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Member UncommonPosts: 1,666

    The reason why i cannot play new school mmorpg's is because of how they handle the community. They handle it like baby sitting kids.

    There is much more, but il stop here.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • vackvack Member Posts: 56

    Mr. Adam Tingle;

    I approve of this messege!  Absolutely spot on. 

    Those of us that cut our teeth on the old school, mmo's know that solo play is too easy now, we know that grouping in open dungeons was great fun, and really the way the community was born, we know lock out timers, and instance dungeons, scenarios, and what not, are killing the very reason most of us old timers still play games, we know, even though very convienant, that the auction house, or the market explorer, killed off the cities, that would busstle with real time crafters, selling their wares, and taking orders.  Yes we long for this to come back, many of us are unsure why it hasn't.  One day, some one will put the MMO, back in MMORPG, but until then we're all stuck playing pretty, easy, the new SOLORPG.

    Vack
    FF XIV - the single worse game to cross my hard drive, ever.

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