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Why has there not been a really good true fps mmorpg?
Gintoh
Member UncommonPosts: 329
I mean besides planetside but that's not really an rpg.
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I think you've answered your own question.
You can count the number of good MMOs on the fingers of a fan inspector, and MMOFPS is a rare type so far so it is not that strange.
Of course it is possible to make one, no one have yet but with the few tries it isn't that strange.
If someone competent like Valve or Rockstar made one things should be different but MMOFPS games seems to be made by small indie developers without enough money and talented people to really make one.
I don't see FPSers being successful as MMO's. What can an MMO bring to a FPSer that players would want to pay for, that isn't already available in the current non-MMO models?
And you know what's funny? As I think about this, what MMO's today bring to games for their subscription, today's games don't bring much more than FPSers have without the "MMO". That's pretty sad, and shows just how far the "they give us less and less" MMO gamer's cry has come.
Once upon a time....
lag?
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
Because the majority of mmo players can't aim?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I'm pretty sure FE is FPS. I played it in third person view, but i'm pretty sure for shooting it's FPS.
There've been a few decent third-person shooters - Global Agenda is awesome, TR was great but is gone now, planetside obviously.
What does "true MMO fps" mean anyway? I have limited experience with FPS games, but it is like Counterstrike but with 100 people on the map instead of 10? FPS generally means no character progression or gear, 100% player-skill based, etc. I don't see a whole lot of benefit to making an FPS persistent, it'll just become a zergfest...
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Overall, different audiences. I know my wife would not be interested in the FPS part of an MMORPGFPS game...and my oldest son would not be interested in the RPG part of an MMORPGFPS game. I would imagine the larger software companies have probably already did the marketing research and found that an audience that may enjoy an MMORPGFPS is too small to be profitable or too small in comparison to alternatives (straight up FPS or straight up MMORPG). Perhaps a smaller company would be willing to take it on as a niche product.
I believe there really wouldn't be a big enough market for one of those because you have Counter Strike and such that do an OUTSTANDING job of FPS competition with multiplayer and it's free. As competitive as the FPS market is, they wouldn't stand for an F2P mmorpg where people can buy their advantage. How big of a playing field do FPS players want? From my experience, when you 8 vs 8 game play has a lot less participation than 4v4 or 2vs2. It's really hard for a MMO dev to compete with what is really done well for free already. Don't think the money is there to sustain it.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Because competetive FPS with standard RPG growth elements don't mix.
Any FPS MUST have PVP, no ifs ands or but. Players would expect it, and if it wasn't in, they would not play the game for very long. PVP is integral to FPS games, and in many cases the game itself won't always do well without it. With PVP as being needed in an MMO, it means that standard level/stat/skill progression is out as a means of advancing your character. FPS is based on "Twitch" gameplay, and players will end up cheated in some way if there is stat progression in the PVP game. (Either those feeling they don't get a good advantage for the "work" put in, or those who feel higher levels have an unfair advantage)
Beyond that, FPS really screams action. Most RPGs don't have that constant adrenaline rush. So FPS might not mesh well with a standard RPG world, even if the progression problem is figured out.
Enemy design and population. Mobs in RPGs are slow to kill. This means less mobs can be placed on the map, and more time spent fighting them. FPS mobs on the other hand are generally the exact opposite. They go down very quickly, and compared to RPG mobs, they are einsteins.
Finally, the issue of bandwidth and cheating. While true that many FPS on getting up to 64-200 players, this still plaes somewhat when compared to MMOs.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
doesn't voice chat solve this problem? like i said, i don't play FPS games, but i remember going to cyber cafes and seeing all the FPS people with headsets.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
FPSRPGs are a rare thing all together. As you said planetside did well and was successful and it was an MMOFPS. If you are hunting out MMOFPSRPGs then you will likely be waiting for a long time. Usually once the RPG aspect is brought in a shooter becomes third person.
That's why pvpers use vent/TS.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Why differentiate between FPS and TPS? They are both Shooters. They have almost exactly the same mechanics. In most Shooters nowadays, you have the option of First Person or Third Person views, just like most modern RPGs.
Shooters have included RPG elements very successfully as exemplified by games such as Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty, Battlefield 2, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Bioshock, and Borderlands. MMOs have yet to capture that feeling, but I'm pretty sure it's not too far off now. It really shouldn't be that hard to put such mechanics into a persistent word, such as Planetside's. I think once a dev team does it well, it's going to be a giant step forward for the genre.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
because it won't work. i'm a huge FPS player and there's just know way you could merg a MMORPG and a FPS together and come out with a good MMORPGFPS. it will always become a zergfest unless you make sure there's X amount of players per side. if that's how it'll be then IMO it's no different from any other FPS, just bigger battles.
not to nit-pick, but none of those games really have any real RPG aspect in them except for mass effect, fallout3, and borderlands. the FPS part of mass effect and fallout 3 wasn't good at all really, borderlands is the only game (in your list) that mixed FPS and RPG elements without nerfing either of them down.
I'm pretty sure you get upgrades and new weapons to use in the other games you didn't mention, therefore you have loot and progression. Plus there are achievements and leaderboards which are kind of like XP grinding. Just because there aren't NPCs or quests doesn't mean there are no RPG elements, in my opinion. If you have character progression, you have RPG elements.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If TPS count, I strongly suggest checking out Global Agenda, i am not really a fan of shooters, but still found it to be really fun and i hear it's improved a lot more since launch too, with more persistent areas and land control. There is a free trial.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
If you can ever get your hands on articles describing the PLANNED version of planetside before it launched, it was originally going to be a VERY different game than it turned out to be.
It was originally planned to be some sort of MMORPGFPS game. It was planned to have a front line, shops, etc. for people to play. During testing they found the players wanted to actually just get into the action faster.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Another aspect to consider, is that for people that like shooters, they can play many for free/almost free in co-op mode or in some of persistent world servers that are set up.
If you can do that already, and that is what you like, and you can play it free multiplayer online, why would someone pay a sub fee or suffer through a cash shop game to get the same thing, or what they like the most?
It is RPG part that tends to keep people, and a lot of onld school RPGs don't like shooters as much.
Global Agenda is pretty good.
This thread has been all over the place with opinions, as it should be.
As to having large maps destroying FPS, that is not true. I will admit that on very large maps weapons of the sniper class could become a problem if not countered in some way, or removed completely.
And, a true action packed FPS, like CoD4, would need a LOT of players on each map to keep the adrenaline flowing.
It was not too long ago that Dark Age of Camelot had all day fighting between hundreds of players on a very large map [NF], however, there could be 300+ players in a small area of the map trying to take control of or defend a keep.
The large map was necessary because there were so many targets and rewards granted for taking those targets, all of which belonged to one of three realms.
There are still hours long battles in NF, however, they tend to sway from one realm overpowering another, in a cycle. It is obvious that, in this late stage of DAoC, many people have made characters in all three realms and take turns ganging up on one of the other three realms on a regular basis. Still, there is lots of action to be had.
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Hellgate was a good example of a hybridization of fps and mmorpg character progression. Was fast-paced, exciting boss battles, and addictive gear drops from head to toe that hardcore Diablo fans would have loved to collect. Though it wasn't successful in that states, but not from the game failing, but more the missmanagement of budget and money by FSS.
Borderlands, while successful, is an online multiplayer game, while close to what you're looking for, it's not a true MMORPG.
There's Huxley, though that is more fps than rpg in its style.
Oddly enough there is a fps mode in Wahammer, however that plays more like a true mmorpg than an fps, since it's a "click tab for auto-lock on target/opponents" control.
While I haven't really answered your question, I hope that you realize that there seems to be a growing trend developing as more and more title (that is forthcoming), such as Tera Online, Rifts Planes of Telara, are more twitch-based hybrids like Hellgate in regards to gameplay.
I believe this trend is growing due to what seems that gamers of this generation, seem to be bored w/ the old models of point-n-click (or Tab-lock-ons) and need the mmorpgs of the future to immerse them in twitch-based gaming while still feeling the satisfaction and/or control over their character/class progression.
In other words, I believe this is just part of gamer's evolution, and the companies have perhaps taken notice (or so it seems). Let's hope this trend grows.
Exactly. And that's how it doesn't mix. FPSers want FPSer game play, and other types of players don't so won't be there. That leaves an audience that can play the same thing (for their gaming entertainment) without a monthly sub, or worse yet, Pay-to-Win cash shops.
Once upon a time....
I disagree with your opinion that it's about gamer evolution, strongly. I think it's all about the Developer world not knowing what they are doing, and fumbling in the dark for something that might work.
Once upon a time....
I'd love to see an MMOFPS from Valve or ID. They could make it using a "WoWesque" model (wait wait, give me a chance) whereby the main open world is PVE, but have battlegrounds and PVP dungeons, where you can limit the player numbers to avoid the lag.
But, make it with a UO/SWG style of branching levels, where you get skill points for doing things, which you use to grow your level. Have armour and weapons only usable when you progress in your career path, and add stats to increase your DMG, Speed, Health and Armour - rather than accuracy.
A really good MMOFPS, would be amazing - making the SKILL of the player the main thing, where the player gets better at the game the more they play, rather than their character (which will happen naturally the more they play).
I'd buy it.
Edit: Why has there not been a decent one yet? Cos MMO's are made by MMO designers, not FPS designers. I've yet to find any MMO where you can scroll into first person view and not feel as though the camera is in your navel, and that your floating.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright