It's that psychological feeling you get. Like when you got a Donetello for your birthday as a kid. "It's ok! He's still a Ninja turtle and the Ninja Turtle's rock!" But a friend comes in with Leonardo or Raphael and you instantly feel like you need to justify Donetello's existence to them. It's because you don't want to feel inferior or wrong.
Or when you play Mario Bros. And are stuck playing Luigi because your brother just always had to be P.1.
Same with FFXIV. I know many of these people "know" the games is below standards, but they got it in there mind that "It's ok, it's Square-Enix. They can make it better." And they do anything they can, short of self-mutiliation to convince themselves they are justified in buying the game and gaining early access.
If said players truly enjoyed the game so much, they'd spend far less time on the forums trying to explain to "Non-believers" how good FFXIV was and more time in game waiting in a line to fight one monster, or crafting for the next 8 hours while your Leve respawns.
The people on this game borders a cult. They seem so mesmerized by the game, they are willing to die for it, or kill anyone who isn't willing to believe.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can
It's a funny comparison, but in your bias and urge to justify your viewpoint and belittle FFXIV fans in your posts (this one and a few sortlike others) you only highlight one perspective, one side of the coin, a common mistake.
So let me help you out and provide the additional viewpoint to this funny little examples you gave:
- how crazy this thought must seem to some people, there might actually be people that enjoy playing FFXIV for the game it is, not what others want it to be. Hey, they might even care less about the issues some people have with the game, and like some features in the game that you don't or find unimportant. I know, crazy, eh, that not everyone has the same taste?
- the Donatello comparison, let's use other equally valid ones: it's like you like reading books and others say that is boring and that you should be watching movies, or where you like turnbased RTS while others say they're so much more fail than realtime RTS, or where you play and enjoy soccer where others keep trashing the sport saying that american football is so much cooler and better as sport. Or to speak in MMO examples, that others keep saying how you should play WoW because "everyone plays WoW" and all other MMO's are utter fail and so much less.
- you're right, behavior on these mmorpg.com forums are almost like religious cults. Here you have people that don't even play the game anymore, dislike it, but instead of moving on they devote all their attention and energy (yes, I exaggerate to keep in the style that you posted your arguments) to convince others that do enjoy the game that they're either insane, religiously blinded or fooling themselves. What, people can't enjoy a game for real anymore or say that they enjoy it sincerly, just because you couldn't enjoy it? Now that is moslim fanatic or inquisition mentality: here's people that are minding their own business, enjoying and devoting their attention to nature and herbology or wicca, and here you come as an inquisition in their places saying what they're enjoying and believing in is wrong, and that they all should believe in the 'one God' instead.
Me, I'm still on the fence about FFXIV, interested but still gathering information, no need for me to rush and play the game right after launch. I am sllightly favoring the viewpoints from actual fans of a MMO though - with FFXIV as well as other MMO's like AoC or CO - who seem to be able to genuinely enjoy a game. Why? For the simple reason that when I don't like a game anymore, I simply move on and leave it behind me, after optionally maybe one goodbye/review post with my dislikes and reasons for leaving. That is, to me, the sensible thing to do. I don't spend time hanging around the forums of the game I left behind trying to continuously convince others to have the same dislikes as I had or trying to convince them that if they're enjoying themselves that it's foolish or fanboish.
To me, that is the sort of behavior that is being done by the real inquisitors and witch hunters.
People that apparently can't accept if others enjoy things (like games) that they don't, as if they're wrong to feel that way.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I've been browsing the sites for this game and their just as much filled with hate as these boards. Sure there is a few defending the game but most are just really pissed. Most bad games had their shitstorm start a month in not before the game is fully launched.
Myself I hope the game tanks really hard. Why? I dont hate square but developers have been getting away with selling full price games that are half baked for too long. Hopefully the next AAA that gets released will take some notice. Doubtfull though.
I hope it tanks too because for too long the MMO devs has gotten away with releasing half finished games for full price and then using the initial sales and monthly sales to finish the game.
If this game becomes a dissapointment, financially, I hope other devs will realise that us customers will not accept to be fed this crap anymore.
What they will realize is the risk/reward is too great and stop trying to make interesting/innovative games. Way to go...
I hope this game show devs that if you want to make innovative and interesting games,that you have to make it accessible to the massesand not develop the whole thing with your head up your ass.
That is where you are wrong. This game was never designed to be accessible to the MASSES. This is not THAT game.
Go read SE's press releases. This game was designed to be accessible for the masses. SE clearly stated that was the intent. They completely failed though.
Casuals can still play it. A person who spend 10 hours a day in game can get things done faster compared to casual player who spends 2 hours a day. But a casual player will still get same results but a little slower.However, i disagree that masses means casuals. Is this game playable by casuals? ofcourse. Unless you think being casual means impatient, in that case probably not. But game was certainly not designed to appeal to masses.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
I've been browsing the sites for this game and their just as much filled with hate as these boards. Sure there is a few defending the game but most are just really pissed. Most bad games had their shitstorm start a month in not before the game is fully launched.
Myself I hope the game tanks really hard. Why? I dont hate square but developers have been getting away with selling full price games that are half baked for too long. Hopefully the next AAA that gets released will take some notice. Doubtfull though.
I hope it tanks too because for too long the MMO devs has gotten away with releasing half finished games for full price and then using the initial sales and monthly sales to finish the game.
If this game becomes a dissapointment, financially, I hope other devs will realise that us customers will not accept to be fed this crap anymore.
What they will realize is the risk/reward is too great and stop trying to make interesting/innovative games. Way to go...
I hope this game show devs that if you want to make innovative and interesting games,that you have to make it accessible to the massesand not develop the whole thing with your head up your ass.
That is where you are wrong. This game was never designed to be accessible to the MASSES. This is not THAT game.
Huh, that's weird. "We want to make a more casual friendly MMORPG". Unless I'm mistaken, the Casual players are the "Masses". So yeah, now it's degraded into "Let's make up anything we want so we're all right.
What's next? Poison Kool-aid?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
They put one leves fatigue system in game and you think its intended to be for the masses which according to you only includes casuals? why don't you do me a favor and spend good deal of time in a game just for a week and come back and tell me if it was designed for MASSES? i will wait for your answer.
My poor, delusional friend. Here, have some kool-aid. It'll ease your mind.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Best argument ever? took you 15 minutes to come up with that generic one liner reply? have you played the game? how many hours you invested in it? if yes than please explain to me where you thought that this game was designed for masses? my knowledge about game comes from the time i have invested in it since head start. Where is your knowledge coming from? forums? third party websites and your neighbour?
Also you are confusing casual with impatient WOW type players. And masses automatically doesn't mean CASUALS only.
Just asking how many hours someone has invested in it proves you don't even understand what the argument is here.
AOC and Vanguard both took a lot of flack on release.
Totally true. I feel FF14 hasn't recieved near the amount of vitriole AOC and VG took. Of course, it was totally earned. The sad thing is I think people are just getting used to MMOs being complete and utter failures. Also, ff14 just didn't have a lot of hype compared to AoC, VG or WAR.
I've been browsing the sites for this game and their just as much filled with hate as these boards. Sure there is a few defending the game but most are just really pissed. Most bad games had their shitstorm start a month in not before the game is fully launched.
Myself I hope the game tanks really hard. Why? I dont hate square but developers have been getting away with selling full price games that are half baked for too long. Hopefully the next AAA that gets released will take some notice. Doubtfull though.
I hope it tanks too because for too long the MMO devs has gotten away with releasing half finished games for full price and then using the initial sales and monthly sales to finish the game.
If this game becomes a dissapointment, financially, I hope other devs will realise that us customers will not accept to be fed this crap anymore.
What they will realize is the risk/reward is too great and stop trying to make interesting/innovative games. Way to go...
I hope this game show devs that if you want to make innovative and interesting games,that you have to make it accessible to the massesand not develop the whole thing with your head up your ass.
That is where you are wrong. This game was never designed to be accessible to the MASSES. This is not THAT game.
Go read SE's press releases. This game was designed to be accessible for the masses. SE clearly stated that was the intent. They completely failed though.
Casuals can still play it. A person who spend 10 hours a day in game can get things done faster compared to casual player who spends 2 hours a day. But a casual player will still get same results but a little slower.However, i disagree that masses means casuals. Is this game playable by casuals? ofcourse. Unless you think being casual means impatient, in that case probably not. But game was certainly not designed to appeal to masses.
As I said go read their press releases. They stated that the aim for FF XIV was to widen the audiance to the mass market. They also stated the game was going to be casual friendly. Both are complete failed attempts.
Being able to log in and do next to sod all does not make a game casual. In fact it doesn't make it hardcore either. What it does make is something that's just "bleh". The only group the game seems to be appealing to is one that would by anything with a FF label on it.
I've been browsing the sites for this game and their just as much filled with hate as these boards. Sure there is a few defending the game but most are just really pissed. Most bad games had their shitstorm start a month in not before the game is fully launched.
Myself I hope the game tanks really hard. Why? I dont hate square but developers have been getting away with selling full price games that are half baked for too long. Hopefully the next AAA that gets released will take some notice. Doubtfull though.
I hope it tanks too because for too long the MMO devs has gotten away with releasing half finished games for full price and then using the initial sales and monthly sales to finish the game.
If this game becomes a dissapointment, financially, I hope other devs will realise that us customers will not accept to be fed this crap anymore.
What they will realize is the risk/reward is too great and stop trying to make interesting/innovative games. Way to go...
I hope this game show devs that if you want to make innovative and interesting games,that you have to make it accessible to the massesand not develop the whole thing with your head up your ass.
That is where you are wrong. This game was never designed to be accessible to the MASSES. This is not THAT game.
Huh, that's weird. "We want to make a more casual friendly MMORPG". Unless I'm mistaken, the Casual players are the "Masses". So yeah, now it's degraded into "Let's make up anything we want so we're all right.
What's next? Poison Kool-aid?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
They put one leves fatigue system in game and you think its intended to be for the masses which according to you only includes casuals? why don't you do me a favor and spend good deal of time in a game just for a week and come back and tell me if it was designed for MASSES? i will wait for your answer.
My poor, delusional friend. Here, have some kool-aid. It'll ease your mind.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Best argument ever? took you 15 minutes to come up with that generic one liner reply? have you played the game? how many hours you invested in it? if yes than please explain to me where you thought that this game was designed for masses? my knowledge about game comes from the time i have invested in it since head start. Where is your knowledge coming from? forums? third party websites and your neighbour?
Also you are confusing casual with impatient WOW type players. And masses automatically doesn't mean CASUALS only.
Just asking how many hours someone has invested in it proves you don't even understand what the argument is here.
I understand the argument very well. You says game is designed for masses i say its untrue. If you say game is degined for casual i will say yes. Masses doesnt not mean casuals only. If you are not patient enough it doesn't matter if you are casual or hardcore. You will NOT like this game. Period.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
1.) There has never, ever, been an MMO released, where the general tenor of FORUM feedback has not been negative at rollout. Anyone who claims otherwise has either been living in a cave since the invention of the internet, or just lying.
Incorrect. I've been here far longer than you. The problem is nothing has been released in a very long time to warrant praise.
1.) There has never, ever, been an MMO released, where the general tenor of FORUM feedback has not been negative at rollout. Anyone who claims otherwise has either been living in a cave since the invention of the internet, or just lying.
Incorrect. I've been here far longer than you. The problem is nothing has been released in a very long time to warrant praise.
This is sadly my point. If a game is everything its supposed to be negative threads would be along the lines of 'great game but not for me'.
1.) There has never, ever, been an MMO released, where the general tenor of FORUM feedback has not been negative at rollout. Anyone who claims otherwise has either been living in a cave since the invention of the internet, or just lying.
Incorrect. I've been here far longer than you. The problem is nothing has been released in a very long time to warrant praise.
Incorrect? Then please englighten us, oh wise one. Which game came out that did not have the same negative rumble from the masses?
1.) There has never, ever, been an MMO released, where the general tenor of FORUM feedback has not been negative at rollout. Anyone who claims otherwise has either been living in a cave since the invention of the internet, or just lying.
Incorrect. I've been here far longer than you. The problem is nothing has been released in a very long time to warrant praise.
It's true that there have been games with relatively calm, even on average moderately positive feedback at rollout, like GW, WoW and LotrO.
I dare say though that forum feedback has become on average more negative and intolerant over the years. If MMORPG's as UO, EQ, DAoC, and AC would've been released in a forum climate and MMO playerbase mentality as we see these days in the 'unfinished' (the new word for unpolished), flawed state they were in at their launch, then they would've been slashed, burned and ripped to pieces, maybe not even surviving their first year and certainly not with the amount of goodwill and success that they received.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Best argument ever? took you 15 minutes to come up with that generic one liner reply? have you played the game? how many hours you invested in it? if yes than please explain to me where you thought that this game was designed for masses? my knowledge about game comes from the time i have invested in it since head start. Where is your knowledge coming from? forums? third party websites and your neighbour?
"SE said so in press release so it must be true duh!!" play the game first please before we argue any further.
Also you are confusing casual with impatient WOW type players. And masses automatically doesn't mean CASUALS only.
Dude, you are basically saying that SE intentionally want to offend "the masses" to appeal to some "elite"- niche gamer crowd. That's just so wrong, one doesn't know where to begin. FF XIV just like every other game is a product which has to be sold. SE have shareholders to answer to just like every Publisher and Developer out there, because it's a BUSINESS first and foremost. They want and they HAVE to sell as much as they can and they tried it openly by saying that they wanted to appeal to the mass-market of today. Well they just did it completely wrong. The fatigue system is nothing but a carebear feature for the masses to not let them feel inferior or "left behind". The classes are so bare bones that everyone knows what to do from the get got. The overly cutsie-style, the kitsch, EVERYTHING screams "Mass Appeal". It just doesn't work.
One simple reason for all the negativity is that it's way easier to troll then it is to spend a bit of extra time researching a game before you buy it, or learning how to play it well.
I'd also bet there are far more people lurking on forums then there are posting, so many of these threads turn into pointless flame wars so quickly that it's seems like a waste of time to even try saying something reasonable.... I know I don't usually bother...
Wait a month or so, most of the haters will have moved on to whatever the next target is and there might be some useful threads again.
Best argument ever? took you 15 minutes to come up with that generic one liner reply? have you played the game? how many hours you invested in it? if yes than please explain to me where you thought that this game was designed for masses? my knowledge about game comes from the time i have invested in it since head start. Where is your knowledge coming from? forums? third party websites and your neighbour?
"SE said so in press release so it must be true duh!!" play the game first please before we argue any further.
Also you are confusing casual with impatient WOW type players. And masses automatically doesn't mean CASUALS only.
Dude, you are basically saying that SE intentionally want to offend "the masses" to appeal to some "elite"- niche gamer crowd. That's just so wrong, one doesn't know where to begin. FF XIV just like every other game is a product which has to be sold. SE have shareholders to answer to just like every Publisher and Developer out there, because it's a BUSINESS first and foremost. They want and they HAVE to sell as much as they can and they tried it openly by saying that they wanted to appeal to the mass-market of today. Well they just did it completely wrong. The fatigue system is nothing but a carebear feature for the masses to not let them feel inferior or "left behind". The classes are so bare bones that everyone knows what to do from the get got. The overly cutsie-style, the kitsch, EVERYTHING screams "Mass Appeal". It just doesn't work.
When SE says massive it means all kind of players are welcome casual or hardcore. There is something for everyone in this game. Problem is with people looking for instant gratification. This is not the game for those kind of players. Most of the complaints come from people who are unable to get things instantly or too lazy to figure things out on their own.
I am a casual gamer myself and yes my speed to get things done are slower compared to someone who can invest 12 hours a day in game. But doesn't mean this game is not for me. i will get from point A to B but a little slower but whats the rush? people first of all ned to stop confusing casual play with being impatient and lazy.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
One simple reason for all the negativity is that it's way easier to troll then it is to spend a bit of extra time researching a game before you buy it, or learning how to play it well.
I'd also bet there are far more people lurking on forums then there are posting, so many of these threads turn into pointless flame wars so quickly that it's seems like a waste of time to even try saying something reasonable.... I know I don't usually bother...
Wait a month or so, most of the haters will have moved on to whatever the next target is and there might be some useful threads again.
Hey great postive post. I'd like to commend you on practicing what you preach!!
It's that psychological feeling you get. Like when you got a Donetello for your birthday as a kid. "It's ok! He's still a Ninja turtle and the Ninja Turtle's rock!" But a friend comes in with Leonardo or Raphael and you instantly feel like you need to justify Donetello's existence to them. It's because you don't want to feel inferior or wrong.
Or when you play Mario Bros. And are stuck playing Luigi because your brother just always had to be P.1.
Same with FFXIV. I know many of these people "know" the games is below standards, but they got it in there mind that "It's ok, it's Square-Enix. They can make it better." And they do anything they can, short of self-mutiliation to convince themselves they are justified in buying the game and gaining early access.
If said players truly enjoyed the game so much, they'd spend far less time on the forums trying to explain to "Non-believers" how good FFXIV was and more time in game waiting in a line to fight one monster, or crafting for the next 8 hours while your Leve respawns.
The people on this game borders a cult. They seem so mesmerized by the game, they are willing to die for it, or kill anyone who isn't willing to believe.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can
It's a funny comparison, but in your bias and urge to justify your viewpoint and belittle FFXIV fans in your posts (this one and a few sortlike others) you only highlight one perspective, one side of the coin, a common mistake.
So let me help you out and provide the additional viewpoint to this funny little examples you gave:
- how crazy this thought must seem to some people, there might actually be people that enjoy playing FFXIV for the game it is, not what others want it to be. Hey, they might even care less about the issues some people have with the game, and like some features in the game that you don't or find unimportant. I know, crazy, eh, that not everyone has the same taste?
- the Donatello comparison, let's use other equally valid ones: it's like you like reading books and others say that is boring and that you should be watching movies, or where you like turnbased RTS while others say they're so much more fail than realtime RTS, or where you play and enjoy soccer where others keep trashing the sport saying that american football is so much cooler and better as sport. Or to speak in MMO examples, that others keep saying how you should play WoW because "everyone plays WoW" and all other MMO's are utter fail and so much less.
- you're right, behavior on these mmorpg.com forums are almost like religious cults. Here you have people that don't even play the game anymore, dislike it, but instead of moving on they devote all their attention and energy (yes, I exaggerate to keep in the style that you posted your arguments) to convince others that do enjoy the game that they're either insane, religiously blinded or fooling themselves. What, people can't enjoy a game for real anymore or say that they enjoy it sincerly, just because you couldn't enjoy it? Now that is moslim fanatic or inquisition mentality: here's people that are minding their own business, enjoying and devoting their attention to nature and herbology or wicca, and here you come as an inquisition in their places saying what they're enjoying and believing in is wrong, and that they all should believe in the 'one God' instead.
Me, I'm still on the fence about FFXIV, interested but still gathering information, no need for me to rush and play the game right after launch. I am sllightly favoring the viewpoints from actual fans of a MMO though - with FFXIV as well as other MMO's like AoC or CO - who seem to be able to genuinely enjoy a game. Why? For the simple reason that when I don't like a game anymore, I simply move on and leave it behind me, after optionally maybe one goodbye/review post with my dislikes and reasons for leaving. That is, to me, the sensible thing to do. I don't spend time hanging around the forums of the game I left behind trying to continuously convince others to have the same dislikes as I had or trying to convince them that if they're enjoying themselves that it's foolish or fanboish.
To me, that is the sort of behavior that is being done by the real inquisitors and witch hunters.
People that apparently can't accept if others enjoy things (like games) that they don't, as if they're wrong to feel that way.
I've been browsing the sites for this game and their just as much filled with hate as these boards. Sure there is a few defending the game but most are just really pissed. Most bad games had their shitstorm start a month in not before the game is fully launched.
Myself I hope the game tanks really hard. Why? I dont hate square but developers have been getting away with selling full price games that are half baked for too long. Hopefully the next AAA that gets released will take some notice. Doubtfull though.
A ton of FFXI vets hate it, a ton of new players hate it.
In an effort by SE to try and be different they fundamentally screwed FFXIV. They tried to be too different with it thus turning a ton of the vets off. The new systems implemented in the game are a major inconvenience (you are kidding yourself if you think the retainer system is actually any good...3 hours of searching for an item and still not finding it...no thanks). They also pushed this game out unfinished and are just letting people pay to beta test it now just so they could get it out before SWTOR and Cata.
I would of been happier if they had of just copied WoW and set it in the Final Fantasy universe than what they have done with FFXIV. I've followed this game since the first concept video was released like 4-5 years ago, man I give up on SE.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who are paid by game developers to post negative posts, a sort of viral anti-advertising campaign (ie.e don't play that game it sux, play this instead). I'd put my money that these paid forum posters are the people who write these long winded essays about why the game is bad over and over and over.
Then trolls who are bored will jump on the bandwagon of hate and help pile on.
I think your confused how the system works.
Why would a rival developer for lets say Blizzard spend hundreds of thousands of dollars paying for "Forum Posting jobs" to give "Negative" press about a game that "Wasnt their own".
Seriously think about that for one second, apply some real world application to your argument again and then tell me what you think.
Theres no conspiracy here folks, the game just sucks.
It's that psychological feeling you get. Like when you got a Donetello for your birthday as a kid. "It's ok! He's still a Ninja turtle and the Ninja Turtle's rock!" But a friend comes in with Leonardo or Raphael and you instantly feel like you need to justify Donetello's existence to them. It's because you don't want to feel inferior or wrong.
Or when you play Mario Bros. And are stuck playing Luigi because your brother just always had to be P.1.
Same with FFXIV. I know many of these people "know" the games is below standards, but they got it in there mind that "It's ok, it's Square-Enix. They can make it better." And they do anything they can, short of self-mutiliation to convince themselves they are justified in buying the game and gaining early access.
If said players truly enjoyed the game so much, they'd spend far less time on the forums trying to explain to "Non-believers" how good FFXIV was and more time in game waiting in a line to fight one monster, or crafting for the next 8 hours while your Leve respawns.
The people on this game borders a cult. They seem so mesmerized by the game, they are willing to die for it, or kill anyone who isn't willing to believe.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Hahahah how did i mis this gem of a post? especially the underlined part. If only you could overreact some more i would suggest you get some councelling asap. Seriously..what the hell lol.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
I just happened to notice that for all of this so called overwhelming negative feedback, FFXIV still has a 7.4 rating on this site. Not stellar, but apparently not everyone agrees with the trolls....
I predict that the professional game reviews will average at about that same level, ie 70-75%, or around 3 1/2 to 4 out of 5 stars. It will be seen as a game with some issues, and not for everyone, but with a lot of good points, and plenty of potential.
Flame all you want, boys, but ultimately, negative forum posts have absolutely no relavance to the actual quality of a game, and no impact on its ultimate success. And thank god for that.
It's true that there have been games with relatively calm, even on average moderately positive feedback at rollout, like GW, WoW and LotrO.
I dare say though that forum feedback has become on average more negative and intolerant over the years. If MMORPG's as UO, EQ, DAoC, and AC would've been released in a forum climate and MMO playerbase mentality as we see these days in the 'unfinished' (the new word for unpolished), flawed state they were in at their launch, then they would've been slashed, burned and ripped to pieces, maybe not even surviving their first year and certainly not with the amount of goodwill and success that they received.
You do realize the reason that would happen nowadays is because of the very game launches you mentioned in the beginning of your post don't you? Companies have already proven that launches don't have to be complete debacles like they used to. Because some learned from past mistakes, better programming, etc. Others either ignore it because they feel their ip or company name can get them by, they reach a point where their cost-benefit analysis says to launch even if it means pissing off some customers, or they're at a point financially where they simply have to launch because they have to start showing a profit to the shareholders and stakeholders regardless the condition the game is in.
Its hard to justify a launch being a complete fuckup anymore when there are examples out there by other companies of how a game launch should go. By the way, my response in no way is meant to reflect on FFXIV itself. I haven't played the game so I cannot say what this game is like one way or the other. Only reason I chimed in is this argument gets a bit tiring when you consider the whole picture of why the launches for the grandpappy mmos were not roasted over a fire pit compared to when a game launches now.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It's that psychological feeling you get. Like when you got a Donetello for your birthday as a kid. "It's ok! He's still a Ninja turtle and the Ninja Turtle's rock!" But a friend comes in with Leonardo or Raphael and you instantly feel like you need to justify Donetello's existence to them. It's because you don't want to feel inferior or wrong.
Or when you play Mario Bros. And are stuck playing Luigi because your brother just always had to be P.1.
Same with FFXIV. I know many of these people "know" the games is below standards, but they got it in there mind that "It's ok, it's Square-Enix. They can make it better." And they do anything they can, short of self-mutiliation to convince themselves they are justified in buying the game and gaining early access.
If said players truly enjoyed the game so much, they'd spend far less time on the forums trying to explain to "Non-believers" how good FFXIV was and more time in game waiting in a line to fight one monster, or crafting for the next 8 hours while your Leve respawns.
The people on this game borders a cult. They seem so mesmerized by the game, they are willing to die for it, or kill anyone who isn't willing to believe.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can
It's a funny comparison, but in your bias and urge to justify your viewpoint and belittle FFXIV fans in your posts (this one and a few sortlike others) you only highlight one perspective, one side of the coin, a common mistake.
So let me help you out and provide the additional viewpoint to this funny little examples you gave:
- how crazy this thought must seem to some people, there might actually be people that enjoy playing FFXIV for the game it is, not what others want it to be. Hey, they might even care less about the issues some people have with the game, and like some features in the game that you don't or find unimportant. I know, crazy, eh, that not everyone has the same taste?
- the Donatello comparison, let's use other equally valid ones: it's like you like reading books and others say that is boring and that you should be watching movies, or where you like turnbased RTS while others say they're so much more fail than realtime RTS, or where you play and enjoy soccer where others keep trashing the sport saying that american football is so much cooler and better as sport. Or to speak in MMO examples, that others keep saying how you should play WoW because "everyone plays WoW" and all other MMO's are utter fail and so much less.
- you're right, behavior on these mmorpg.com forums are almost like religious cults. Here you have people that don't even play the game anymore, dislike it, but instead of moving on they devote all their attention and energy (yes, I exaggerate to keep in the style that you posted your arguments) to convince others that do enjoy the game that they're either insane, religiously blinded or fooling themselves. What, people can't enjoy a game for real anymore or say that they enjoy it sincerly, just because you couldn't enjoy it? Now that is moslim fanatic or inquisition mentality: here's people that are minding their own business, enjoying and devoting their attention to nature and herbology or wicca, and here you come as an inquisition in their places saying what they're enjoying and believing in is wrong, and that they all should believe in the 'one God' instead.
Me, I'm still on the fence about FFXIV, interested but still gathering information, no need for me to rush and play the game right after launch. I am sllightly favoring the viewpoints from actual fans of a MMO though - with FFXIV as well as other MMO's like AoC or CO - who seem to be able to genuinely enjoy a game. Why? For the simple reason that when I don't like a game anymore, I simply move on and leave it behind me, after optionally maybe one goodbye/review post with my dislikes and reasons for leaving. That is, to me, the sensible thing to do. I don't spend time hanging around the forums of the game I left behind trying to continuously convince others to have the same dislikes as I had or trying to convince them that if they're enjoying themselves that it's foolish or fanboish.
To me, that is the sort of behavior that is being done by the real inquisitors and witch hunters.
People that apparently can't accept if others enjoy things (like games) that they don't, as if they're wrong to feel that way.
I just happened to notice that for all of this so called overwhelming negative feedback, FFXIV still has a 7.4 rating on this site. Not stellar, but apparently not everyone agrees with the trolls....
I predict that the professional game reviews will average at about that same level, ie 70-75%, or around 3 1/2 to 4 out of 5 stars. It will be seen as a game with some issues, and not for everyone, but with a lot of good points, and plenty of potential.
Flame all you want, boys, but ultimately, negative forum posts have absolutely no relavance to the actual quality of a game, and no impact on its ultimate success. And thank god for that.
I just happened to notice that for all of this so called overwhelming negative feedback, FFXIV still has a 7.4 rating on this site. Not stellar, but apparently not everyone agrees with the trolls....
I predict that the professional game reviews will average at about that same level, ie 70-75%, or around 3 1/2 to 4 out of 5 stars. It will be seen as a game with some issues, and not for everyone, but with a lot of good points, and plenty of potential.
Flame all you want, boys, but ultimately, negative forum posts have absolutely no relavance to the actual quality of a game, and no impact on its ultimate success. And thank god for that.
I think you do not truly understand where 7.36 sits overall. On this site, it places it at... let me see.
Oh... my... god. This game is outside of the top 100. It places itself at exactly 101 on this site. The list of games that place above this one is absolutely insane. 100 games... Huh, I had no idea.
I just happened to notice that for all of this so called overwhelming negative feedback, FFXIV still has a 7.4 rating on this site. Not stellar, but apparently not everyone agrees with the trolls....
I predict that the professional game reviews will average at about that same level, ie 70-75%, or around 3 1/2 to 4 out of 5 stars. It will be seen as a game with some issues, and not for everyone, but with a lot of good points, and plenty of potential.
Flame all you want, boys, but ultimately, negative forum posts have absolutely no relavance to the actual quality of a game, and no impact on its ultimate success. And thank god for that.
I think you do not truly understand where 7.36 sits overall. On this site, it places it at... let me see.
Oh... my... god. This game is outside of the top 100. It places itself at exactly 101 on this site. The list of games that place above this one is absolutely insane. 100 games... Huh, I had no idea.
I know you guys are being facetious but that pretty much proves the rating system for this site is a joke. I may not have played the game, but I find it hard to believe that it would be worse than something like Last Chaos.
This has to be one of the more comical sites when it comes to game ratings in general.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
It's a funny comparison, but in your bias and urge to justify your viewpoint and belittle FFXIV fans in your posts (this one and a few sortlike others) you only highlight one perspective, one side of the coin, a common mistake.
So let me help you out and provide the additional viewpoint to this funny little examples you gave:
- how crazy this thought must seem to some people, there might actually be people that enjoy playing FFXIV for the game it is, not what others want it to be. Hey, they might even care less about the issues some people have with the game, and like some features in the game that you don't or find unimportant. I know, crazy, eh, that not everyone has the same taste?
- the Donatello comparison, let's use other equally valid ones: it's like you like reading books and others say that is boring and that you should be watching movies, or where you like turnbased RTS while others say they're so much more fail than realtime RTS, or where you play and enjoy soccer where others keep trashing the sport saying that american football is so much cooler and better as sport. Or to speak in MMO examples, that others keep saying how you should play WoW because "everyone plays WoW" and all other MMO's are utter fail and so much less.
- you're right, behavior on these mmorpg.com forums are almost like religious cults. Here you have people that don't even play the game anymore, dislike it, but instead of moving on they devote all their attention and energy (yes, I exaggerate to keep in the style that you posted your arguments) to convince others that do enjoy the game that they're either insane, religiously blinded or fooling themselves. What, people can't enjoy a game for real anymore or say that they enjoy it sincerly, just because you couldn't enjoy it? Now that is moslim fanatic or inquisition mentality: here's people that are minding their own business, enjoying and devoting their attention to nature and herbology or wicca, and here you come as an inquisition in their places saying what they're enjoying and believing in is wrong, and that they all should believe in the 'one God' instead.
Me, I'm still on the fence about FFXIV, interested but still gathering information, no need for me to rush and play the game right after launch. I am sllightly favoring the viewpoints from actual fans of a MMO though - with FFXIV as well as other MMO's like AoC or CO - who seem to be able to genuinely enjoy a game. Why? For the simple reason that when I don't like a game anymore, I simply move on and leave it behind me, after optionally maybe one goodbye/review post with my dislikes and reasons for leaving. That is, to me, the sensible thing to do. I don't spend time hanging around the forums of the game I left behind trying to continuously convince others to have the same dislikes as I had or trying to convince them that if they're enjoying themselves that it's foolish or fanboish.
To me, that is the sort of behavior that is being done by the real inquisitors and witch hunters.
People that apparently can't accept if others enjoy things (like games) that they don't, as if they're wrong to feel that way.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Casuals can still play it. A person who spend 10 hours a day in game can get things done faster compared to casual player who spends 2 hours a day. But a casual player will still get same results but a little slower.However, i disagree that masses means casuals. Is this game playable by casuals? ofcourse. Unless you think being casual means impatient, in that case probably not. But game was certainly not designed to appeal to masses.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Just asking how many hours someone has invested in it proves you don't even understand what the argument is here.
Totally true. I feel FF14 hasn't recieved near the amount of vitriole AOC and VG took. Of course, it was totally earned. The sad thing is I think people are just getting used to MMOs being complete and utter failures. Also, ff14 just didn't have a lot of hype compared to AoC, VG or WAR.
As I said go read their press releases. They stated that the aim for FF XIV was to widen the audiance to the mass market. They also stated the game was going to be casual friendly. Both are complete failed attempts.
Being able to log in and do next to sod all does not make a game casual. In fact it doesn't make it hardcore either. What it does make is something that's just "bleh". The only group the game seems to be appealing to is one that would by anything with a FF label on it.
I understand the argument very well. You says game is designed for masses i say its untrue. If you say game is degined for casual i will say yes. Masses doesnt not mean casuals only. If you are not patient enough it doesn't matter if you are casual or hardcore. You will NOT like this game. Period.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Incorrect. I've been here far longer than you. The problem is nothing has been released in a very long time to warrant praise.
This is sadly my point. If a game is everything its supposed to be negative threads would be along the lines of 'great game but not for me'.
I think the biggest issue with ff xiv is that its such a pretty game, its to bad the game plays like 2 snails having sex.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
Incorrect? Then please englighten us, oh wise one. Which game came out that did not have the same negative rumble from the masses?
It's true that there have been games with relatively calm, even on average moderately positive feedback at rollout, like GW, WoW and LotrO.
I dare say though that forum feedback has become on average more negative and intolerant over the years. If MMORPG's as UO, EQ, DAoC, and AC would've been released in a forum climate and MMO playerbase mentality as we see these days in the 'unfinished' (the new word for unpolished), flawed state they were in at their launch, then they would've been slashed, burned and ripped to pieces, maybe not even surviving their first year and certainly not with the amount of goodwill and success that they received.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Dude, you are basically saying that SE intentionally want to offend "the masses" to appeal to some "elite"- niche gamer crowd. That's just so wrong, one doesn't know where to begin. FF XIV just like every other game is a product which has to be sold. SE have shareholders to answer to just like every Publisher and Developer out there, because it's a BUSINESS first and foremost. They want and they HAVE to sell as much as they can and they tried it openly by saying that they wanted to appeal to the mass-market of today. Well they just did it completely wrong. The fatigue system is nothing but a carebear feature for the masses to not let them feel inferior or "left behind". The classes are so bare bones that everyone knows what to do from the get got. The overly cutsie-style, the kitsch, EVERYTHING screams "Mass Appeal". It just doesn't work.
One simple reason for all the negativity is that it's way easier to troll then it is to spend a bit of extra time researching a game before you buy it, or learning how to play it well.
I'd also bet there are far more people lurking on forums then there are posting, so many of these threads turn into pointless flame wars so quickly that it's seems like a waste of time to even try saying something reasonable.... I know I don't usually bother...
Wait a month or so, most of the haters will have moved on to whatever the next target is and there might be some useful threads again.
When SE says massive it means all kind of players are welcome casual or hardcore. There is something for everyone in this game. Problem is with people looking for instant gratification. This is not the game for those kind of players. Most of the complaints come from people who are unable to get things instantly or too lazy to figure things out on their own.
I am a casual gamer myself and yes my speed to get things done are slower compared to someone who can invest 12 hours a day in game. But doesn't mean this game is not for me. i will get from point A to B but a little slower but whats the rush? people first of all ned to stop confusing casual play with being impatient and lazy.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Hey great postive post. I'd like to commend you on practicing what you preach!!
Greatest post ever.
(and nice text color choice!!)
A ton of FFXI vets hate it, a ton of new players hate it.
In an effort by SE to try and be different they fundamentally screwed FFXIV. They tried to be too different with it thus turning a ton of the vets off. The new systems implemented in the game are a major inconvenience (you are kidding yourself if you think the retainer system is actually any good...3 hours of searching for an item and still not finding it...no thanks). They also pushed this game out unfinished and are just letting people pay to beta test it now just so they could get it out before SWTOR and Cata.
I would of been happier if they had of just copied WoW and set it in the Final Fantasy universe than what they have done with FFXIV. I've followed this game since the first concept video was released like 4-5 years ago, man I give up on SE.
Hahahah how did i mis this gem of a post? especially the underlined part. If only you could overreact some more i would suggest you get some councelling asap. Seriously..what the hell lol.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
I just happened to notice that for all of this so called overwhelming negative feedback, FFXIV still has a 7.4 rating on this site. Not stellar, but apparently not everyone agrees with the trolls....
I predict that the professional game reviews will average at about that same level, ie 70-75%, or around 3 1/2 to 4 out of 5 stars. It will be seen as a game with some issues, and not for everyone, but with a lot of good points, and plenty of potential.
Flame all you want, boys, but ultimately, negative forum posts have absolutely no relavance to the actual quality of a game, and no impact on its ultimate success. And thank god for that.
You do realize the reason that would happen nowadays is because of the very game launches you mentioned in the beginning of your post don't you? Companies have already proven that launches don't have to be complete debacles like they used to. Because some learned from past mistakes, better programming, etc. Others either ignore it because they feel their ip or company name can get them by, they reach a point where their cost-benefit analysis says to launch even if it means pissing off some customers, or they're at a point financially where they simply have to launch because they have to start showing a profit to the shareholders and stakeholders regardless the condition the game is in.
Its hard to justify a launch being a complete fuckup anymore when there are examples out there by other companies of how a game launch should go. By the way, my response in no way is meant to reflect on FFXIV itself. I haven't played the game so I cannot say what this game is like one way or the other. Only reason I chimed in is this argument gets a bit tiring when you consider the whole picture of why the launches for the grandpappy mmos were not roasted over a fire pit compared to when a game launches now.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This I can agree with at least. Good post.
They do actually.
I think you do not truly understand where 7.36 sits overall. On this site, it places it at... let me see.
Oh... my... god. This game is outside of the top 100. It places itself at exactly 101 on this site. The list of games that place above this one is absolutely insane. 100 games... Huh, I had no idea.
A lot of those are horrid f2p grinders too =P
I know you guys are being facetious but that pretty much proves the rating system for this site is a joke. I may not have played the game, but I find it hard to believe that it would be worse than something like Last Chaos.
This has to be one of the more comical sites when it comes to game ratings in general.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.