well then, why switch to a new game if the old one's better?
Terminator, the movie. When it first came out the special effects were amazing, the story was great, and people watched it again and again. It's a great movie. However, years later, when you watch it again, you realise with modern advances the special effects are looking really dated, the music sounds old, and you know the story inside out. Now, it might be a great movie, but if you have the choice of watching that AGAIN or watching something new with amazing special effects, it's highly likely you'll watch something new.
Same principle. The older games were great, but time has aged them and though they're still fun, you'd really prefer to be playing something more modern.
The Terminator script is still cited by How-To Write a Screenplay classes and books as one of the best examples of pacing in the industry. The analogy isn't exact, but I can take away something from your example for developers that goes something like: "Find the core element(s) that made any older MMO great and apply it to whatever MMO you're making now."
Then all you have to worry about are losing the people that try your MMO and expect it to be something other than another MMO, which is as silly as going to the movies and expecting to see something other than a movie.
I don't expect to see the same flick over and over again in the movies. Police Academy gets quite old after the third and they have six of them. No way. You can rip off the same piece only so many times. Everything gets old. Settlling for something is just wrong. We wouldn't have ever gone to the moon with that attitude.
Some people expect the new game to be better or different. Not worse or exactly the same.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
If you buy the "next, most amazing WoW-killing game EVAH!" and get a bug-laden piece of barely functioning guano, then people won't be satisfied and will leave.
If you gut a game promising this innovation and that innovation and wind up with the same old turn with a touch of polish on it, people will leave.
Funny, but between those two... these comments remind me of just about every release in the last two to three years.
Major hype... buy the collectors edition... game is half-broken... you get to PAY them to beta test it.
A sad reflection on the industry.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I don't think our expectations are too high. What i think has ahappened is some big talking companies have made some pbig promises the past couple years, and failed to deliver each time. But what we are expecting is what they were promising.
and when you consider over the course of a year a MMo can make 180 dollars off of me, I expect something that isn't buggy, the idea that you just have to deal with bugs in a game is an archaic thought, taht has stuck with people from the early days of MMO's. But MMO's are not "new" anymore, the technology they require isn't something that has just been figured out. so i expect my game to not have bugs and major issues at release, otherwise i won't continue to play it.
Hm, I dunno. I don't think it's too much, but I guess many especially here in these forums expect too much a deep and complex experience, and companies rather want to make quick money and thus target for a mass audience which - at leas so they think - has less patience for depth. That may or may not be true, I don't know. But it is IMO why so often our expectations are not met.
Then of course there is the simple cause of rushing a game which isn't ready. But that doesn't have to do with expectations being met. It's just sloppyness.
I don't think our expectations are too high. Think of it like this. Starbucks may not be the best coffee in the world but no matter which one you go too you will be treated respectfully. The employees are generally happy and the company invests a lot of money into its service side. You can always go to another coffee shop and get a cup of coffee that might be better but you are likely dealing with someone who may just be a total douche, or doesn't listen to you.
Trust me, respect and customer service wins in any business. If a MMO IP can cater to its players it will be fine. SE is a perfect example of this. Great concept, but absolutely no communication and 'my way or the highway' stance it took when it should have been listening to players in the beta.
WoW has been amazingly successful because it pampers it's customers (sure a few of you might have differing views) but I have found when calling their customer service they have been pretty damn nice. Also, Blizzard dev's read the forums, is generally respectful to players, and listens to feedback. If they respond to say they are not doing something its usually met with a reason why.
This is 2010 almost 2011 and great minds at work created only a few really good titles. These companies may hit or miss our expectations, but strive to get it right at least. Look at the money WOW brings in. Put out a good product and you too can have millions of subscibers. Get your tech right, make it playable, and fun enough to keep some of us entertained, and you have a winner. My expectations are not the next guys and vice versa, but in general, we have something in common. We want what we want, and developers need to figure it out, and bring us their best, or fade away.
I think companies expectations are too high. They still seem to think you can release a game half finished and then they seem to be lost for words when their retention numbers plummet because folks go back to other games.
Until they learn that unlike the "old days" you cannot expect the majority of people to stick around and pay for you to fix and add a bunch of content to your game they'll apparently continue to be dazed and confused as their presale numbers impress everyone and their three month post launch numbers lead to downsizing and a business model reassessment.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I think expectations are absolutely too high for the sole reason that all of us are looking for something to replace that first MMO we fell in love with. No game can ever seem to compare to that first epic MMO experience and so we always find something about every game that we don't like. In truth, I think our memories are tainted by years of nostalgia and new games can never match the illusion of what those old games were for us. Even though, in most cases, the games were not as good as we remember them being and we would probably not be willing to play them again now...
That being said, I do think that a lot of games have been rushed out far too early due to monetary pressures and fall far short of people's expectations for that reason as well...
Take the 2 most popular mmorpg now, wow and eve. Their retention rate for trial account is like 20% and 10%. Pretty much only 1 in 5 wow trial ever register, and 1 in 10 eve trial ever register. (if you want to get into how many of those are gold seller feel free too).
Us the gamers will only accept nowadays real quality when it comes to MMO releases. If a game is released and feels broken then people will not want to waste there money to try to stick around to see if MAYBE it gets better.
please follow and check out the ad's on my mmo blog www.mmorpgtot.blogspot.com thank you
Take the 2 most popular mmorpg now, wow and eve. Their retention rate for trial account is like 20% and 10%. Pretty much only 1 in 5 wow trial ever register, and 1 in 10 eve trial ever register. (if you want to get into how many of those are gold seller feel free too). Ya, th expectation is too high.
I might get flames for this but if people expect all themeparks to be better than WoW and all sandbox games to be better than EVE at release they expect way too much. Those two games are virtually perfect with tons of content (wow) and a crazy amount of options and tools (eve)... Might as well leave the genre if your expectations are that high.
Marketing departments are overhyping their product
I think, in some cases, marketing departments are promising too much to their future customer prior to a game release. We've seen that with Age of Conan. Sometimes, I feel like we're being told "This game is everything you've ever wished for" when it tries to target a certain audience. Or sometimes they are just out of touch with their projet manager, and the developers just can't achieve everything that was promised under reasonable time or budget. Then it become a PR disaster with a lot of angry customers.
Inexperience in software development
Most colleges now offer a computer software degree, or a software engineering degree, or any computer-related program degree. However, most only started to offer real software-related degrees in the last 10 to 15 years. Meanwhile, the software industry exploded and demand for qualified programmers, software engineers and project leaders skyrocketed. Meanwhile, the video-game industry is still looking for 2 profiles: underpaid script kiddies, who know how to do some great achievements in C++, but knows jack about architecture or methodology, and glorious heroes coming from other video game companies with few titles in their resume. Of course, there are going to find a lot more kiddies than glorious heroes willing to accept low wage jobs with though under pressure schedules. I'm very confident this has a huge toll on the quality of their product. During that time, the best graduates are being hired by all the other industries. Especially in finance... since they kinda get the idea that a defect software may cost billions...
Lack of project management
Some games that were released lately promised the moon. Sometimes it's due to the marketing development, but sometimes it's due to a critical failure in project management. Sometimes, a manager has to setup a scope. This serves as a boundary for their development team of what to work on and what to put on hold. Some games released lately failed to deliver a good gameplay... but you had a nice quest tracker on your map!! And have you see the breathtaking water effect!! Alas, the game is unplayable. Ahh my character is taking 8 seconds to chop someone's head that is so cool... but I can't get out of this random animation so I'm getting killed by this assassin who decided to jump me. I think some team leader forgot to put the right priorities in terms of feature here :S
Wrong financial model
Sometimes I get the feeling some game studios are building MMO like they are all B2P (buy-to-play). If a game is meant to be subscription-based, it may not be realistic to get into the market with the expectation that your initial box sales should cover your entire development cost. This is just not the way it should be. P2P MMOs are a complete different creature than your local blockbuster games.
And again, I think some publishers should switch to the pay by hour model. Some games like Aion would benefit a lot from it; While it offers a narrow list of activities to do, players wouldn't mind keeping 'pay by hour subscriptions' for multiple games at the same time. The monthly subscription model only benefits to those few established behemoths since they offer a lot more to do than Aion (or any new MMO entering the market) for the same price.
Well, that was my Thursday night 2¢
You are starting some interesting threads Rockgod99
Take the 2 most popular mmorpg now, wow and eve. Their retention rate for trial account is like 20% and 10%. Pretty much only 1 in 5 wow trial ever register, and 1 in 10 eve trial ever register. (if you want to get into how many of those are gold seller feel free too).
Ya, th expectation is too high.
I might get flames for this but if people expect all themeparks to be better than WoW and all sandbox games to be better than EVE at release they expect way too much. Those two games are virtually perfect with tons of content (wow) and a crazy amount of options and tools (eve)... Might as well leave the genre if your expectations are that high.
You arre not going to receive flames,because everyone has their opinion,but i disagree with you big time.First up i believe people will support qaulity over just quantity and Wow for one is only quantity VERY little quality.Making a million instances is not quality,you can hire any low budget developer to do that.Eve>>perfect?are you serious?It is a spreadsheet game that was released with sub par graphics and almost no detail to any aspect of it's game.It also completely ignored the ability to attract the female demographic,completely ignored useable planets and surfaces.Wel lnever mind i could go on for pages with Eve's flaws but no matter some people like the way it is,I'm not doubting their like,i just look at facts.
As far as expectations go,i have not found anyone's expectatiosn to be too high in any posts i have read about games.Many of us know the technology available,we know that DX10+ gives the develoeprs the tools to make better gaming with few bottleknecks but we don't see the results.There has been a couple VERY aggressive physics engines come about over the past few years,it would be a no brainer to utilize it to make a better product but still developers ignore all the tools.
I think it is very obvious that it is all about money.These developers weigh their options from day 1,they for the most part ,do not want to take the chance of a very high budget ,quality effort that could set them back years before they break even.SO they look to give us the bare minimum by now a days standards,which imo is barely one step above F2P quality.
How can we as gamers force developers to start giving us quality over the bare minimum?with our wallets of course,stop being NEEDY gamers,you do not NEED to play their games,show some restraint.The other problem is there is only a handful of big money developers that could afford to take the chance,so it doesn't leave us much hope.However i still believe there is a John Carmack waiting in the wings,taking his time to bring us the next cool thing.Until that happens expect the same old,RAID talk,Mounts talk,boring quests and players frantically trying to speed level like they couldn't care less how much of a game they bypass.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I might get flames for this but if people expect all themeparks to be better than WoW and all sandbox games to be better than EVE at release they expect way too much. Those two games are virtually perfect with tons of content (wow) and a crazy amount of options and tools (eve)... Might as well leave the genre if your expectations are that high.
Why would you get flamed? Most probably agree with you. I will say that if you really think that is what the majority of people want or expect from a new game you're probably mistaken. Well, I know you are at least where I'm concerned. Suppose I shouldn't just assume what others are looking for.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I might get flames for this but if people expect all themeparks to be better than WoW and all sandbox games to be better than EVE at release they expect way too much. Those two games are virtually perfect with tons of content (wow) and a crazy amount of options and tools (eve)... Might as well leave the genre if your expectations are that high.
Why would you get flamed? Most probably agree with you. I will say that if you really think that is what the majority of people want or expect from a new game you're probably mistaken. Well, I know you are at least where I'm concerned. Suppose I shouldn't just assume what others are looking for.
Honestly I don't know what people want. I just hope they don't expect perfection on release day. I know I learnt my lesson with Warhammer.
I might get flames for this but if people expect all themeparks to be better than WoW and all sandbox games to be better than EVE at release they expect way too much. Those two games are virtually perfect with tons of content (wow) and a crazy amount of options and tools (eve)... Might as well leave the genre if your expectations are that high.
Why would you get flamed? Most probably agree with you. I will say that if you really think that is what the majority of people want or expect from a new game you're probably mistaken. Well, I know you are at least where I'm concerned. Suppose I shouldn't just assume what others are looking for.
It doesn't matter what people want. It could be space age fantasy, medieval fantasy, pink princess fantasy, etc etc. All that matters is if th game is functional with good support. My first MMO, the one that turned me to the genre was UO. I barely remember any crashing or bugs (at least when I played). EQ1 was my second MMO I fell in love with and I cannot recall anything that pissed me off about bugs and crashing, or even a shitty UI. Then there was EQ2 which I loved but it was just retarded at first due to bugs and complexity to do menial tasks. Finally, WOW where I always seem to end up when another shitty MMO bores me or underperforms.
The next major MMO is about to be announced at Blizzcon. I hate to say it like a repeating record, but it will probably be the next MMO to come close to WOW numbers.
However, if you play a game for a month and it doesn't make you want to pay for more then it wouldn't be worth it no matter what. If you don't want to play then you don't enjoy the game. Plain as that.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Perfection on release day? Not something to EXPECT?
Why not?
Years of developement and moths of testing should pretty much render a near perfect product. Other than an extreme overload of more players than realistically one could expect. I do not think that it is much to expect anything BUT a perfect product!!!
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
well then, why switch to a new game if the old one's better?
Terminator, the movie. When it first came out the special effects were amazing, the story was great, and people watched it again and again. It's a great movie. However, years later, when you watch it again, you realise with modern advances the special effects are looking really dated, the music sounds old, and you know the story inside out. Now, it might be a great movie, but if you have the choice of watching that AGAIN or watching something new with amazing special effects, it's highly likely you'll watch something new.
Same principle. The older games were great, but time has aged them and though they're still fun, you'd really prefer to be playing something more modern.
The Terminator script is still cited by How-To Write a Screenplay classes and books as one of the best examples of pacing in the industry. The analogy isn't exact, but I can take away something from your example for developers that goes something like: "Find the core element(s) that made any older MMO great and apply it to whatever MMO you're making now."
Then all you have to worry about are losing the people that try your MMO and expect it to be something other than another MMO, which is as silly as going to the movies and expecting to see something other than a movie.
I don't expect to see the same flick over and over again in the movies. Police Academy gets quite old after the third and they have six of them. No way. You can rip off the same piece only so many times. Everything gets old. Settlling for something is just wrong. We wouldn't have ever gone to the moon with that attitude.
Some people expect the new game to be better or different. Not worse or exactly the same.
You didn't understand what I meant. It's not about copying a plot. All movies have elements such as pacing. That's just part of movies.
Come to think of it, all MMOs have pacing, too. Whether you level by levels or by skills, if you can do anything in the game world to make your character more powerful than it starts out as (and that includes power in the form of wealth), how fast or slow your character becomes powerful is a form of pacing.
Knowing what elements MMOs or movies have in common with other MMOs or movies and knowing some of the things that do and don't work within those elements is important, and requires the study of what has gone before.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Do we expect too much from these developers? I recently posted a thread asking how many clients players purchased where they decided to quit either before or just after the free month. The numbers were surprising. From three to as high as ten! So let me ask are our expectations just too high? Will we ever be satisfied?
I have no problem having high expectations from these dev teams. Afterall, they're trying to grab my money. Whether they're trying to do it outright with P2P or being deceptive about it in F2P schemes.
So, outside the money spent, the other thing I have valuable to me is my free time. I have no time to waste on half-a**ed products that show signs that the ship is already sinking at the first month. I have no time to waste with developers that are slow in critical fixes or outright denying something's wrong despite many pointing out big problems. I have no time to waste with a game that is blatantly and horridly incomplete. Yes, MMORPGs by nature are never "complete," but there are limits. I have no time to waste on dev teams that already show early signs of adding no new content for badly incomplete games (why, hello STO, nice of you to show up). I have no time to waste on these guys telling me in fabulously typed out forum updates on all these cool things coming down the road within a few months (just keep paying). Because I've seen too many times in the past these baiting with a carrot tactics to string a customer along over the months while actually delivering little to nothing in return.
Lastly, I have no time to stay with an MMORPG when everyone's left in disgust. One of the most depressing things in all of gaming is staying in one of these freshly evacuated MMORPGs when everyone from launch left.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
We have seen technology take huge leaps in the past five years but gaming has not. We have seen ever increasing processing power and the development of the internet, broadband, cloud computing, smart phone platform, voice channels, voice command tech and motion control devices, robots with AI good enough to serve you a drink. But we are not getting any corresponding development in game play styles, when you played your first game online with other people it was amazing. Since then what new play styles have we had?
A revolution occurred when gaming moved online, then it petered out. The industry has always been supported by each new generation coming to gaming, they don’t ask awkward questions about content and game play styles. While those of us who have been around a bit ask, what’s new?
Comments
I don't expect to see the same flick over and over again in the movies. Police Academy gets quite old after the third and they have six of them. No way. You can rip off the same piece only so many times. Everything gets old. Settlling for something is just wrong. We wouldn't have ever gone to the moon with that attitude.
Some people expect the new game to be better or different. Not worse or exactly the same.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Funny, but between those two... these comments remind me of just about every release in the last two to three years.
Major hype... buy the collectors edition... game is half-broken... you get to PAY them to beta test it.
A sad reflection on the industry.
I don't think our expectations are too high. What i think has ahappened is some big talking companies have made some pbig promises the past couple years, and failed to deliver each time. But what we are expecting is what they were promising.
and when you consider over the course of a year a MMo can make 180 dollars off of me, I expect something that isn't buggy, the idea that you just have to deal with bugs in a game is an archaic thought, taht has stuck with people from the early days of MMO's. But MMO's are not "new" anymore, the technology they require isn't something that has just been figured out. so i expect my game to not have bugs and major issues at release, otherwise i won't continue to play it.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
Hm, I dunno. I don't think it's too much, but I guess many especially here in these forums expect too much a deep and complex experience, and companies rather want to make quick money and thus target for a mass audience which - at leas so they think - has less patience for depth. That may or may not be true, I don't know. But it is IMO why so often our expectations are not met.
Then of course there is the simple cause of rushing a game which isn't ready. But that doesn't have to do with expectations being met. It's just sloppyness.
So essentially, my answer is, no they are not.
It's only when you aim for perfection that you achieve excellence.
The perfect game will never exist, but it's only by trying to meet high expectations that good games will be made.
I don't think our expectations are too high. Think of it like this. Starbucks may not be the best coffee in the world but no matter which one you go too you will be treated respectfully. The employees are generally happy and the company invests a lot of money into its service side. You can always go to another coffee shop and get a cup of coffee that might be better but you are likely dealing with someone who may just be a total douche, or doesn't listen to you.
Trust me, respect and customer service wins in any business. If a MMO IP can cater to its players it will be fine. SE is a perfect example of this. Great concept, but absolutely no communication and 'my way or the highway' stance it took when it should have been listening to players in the beta.
WoW has been amazingly successful because it pampers it's customers (sure a few of you might have differing views) but I have found when calling their customer service they have been pretty damn nice. Also, Blizzard dev's read the forums, is generally respectful to players, and listens to feedback. If they respond to say they are not doing something its usually met with a reason why.
This is 2010 almost 2011 and great minds at work created only a few really good titles. These companies may hit or miss our expectations, but strive to get it right at least. Look at the money WOW brings in. Put out a good product and you too can have millions of subscibers. Get your tech right, make it playable, and fun enough to keep some of us entertained, and you have a winner. My expectations are not the next guys and vice versa, but in general, we have something in common. We want what we want, and developers need to figure it out, and bring us their best, or fade away.
I think companies expectations are too high. They still seem to think you can release a game half finished and then they seem to be lost for words when their retention numbers plummet because folks go back to other games.
Until they learn that unlike the "old days" you cannot expect the majority of people to stick around and pay for you to fix and add a bunch of content to your game they'll apparently continue to be dazed and confused as their presale numbers impress everyone and their three month post launch numbers lead to downsizing and a business model reassessment.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I think expectations are absolutely too high for the sole reason that all of us are looking for something to replace that first MMO we fell in love with. No game can ever seem to compare to that first epic MMO experience and so we always find something about every game that we don't like. In truth, I think our memories are tainted by years of nostalgia and new games can never match the illusion of what those old games were for us. Even though, in most cases, the games were not as good as we remember them being and we would probably not be willing to play them again now...
That being said, I do think that a lot of games have been rushed out far too early due to monetary pressures and fall far short of people's expectations for that reason as well...
Take the 2 most popular mmorpg now, wow and eve. Their retention rate for trial account is like 20% and 10%. Pretty much only 1 in 5 wow trial ever register, and 1 in 10 eve trial ever register. (if you want to get into how many of those are gold seller feel free too).
Ya, th expectation is too high.
Us the gamers will only accept nowadays real quality when it comes to MMO releases. If a game is released and feels broken then people will not want to waste there money to try to stick around to see if MAYBE it gets better.
please follow and check out the ad's on my mmo blog
www.mmorpgtot.blogspot.com
thank you
I might get flames for this but if people expect all themeparks to be better than WoW and all sandbox games to be better than EVE at release they expect way too much. Those two games are virtually perfect with tons of content (wow) and a crazy amount of options and tools (eve)... Might as well leave the genre if your expectations are that high.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I don't think our expectations are too high.
Marketing departments are overhyping their product
I think, in some cases, marketing departments are promising too much to their future customer prior to a game release. We've seen that with Age of Conan. Sometimes, I feel like we're being told "This game is everything you've ever wished for" when it tries to target a certain audience. Or sometimes they are just out of touch with their projet manager, and the developers just can't achieve everything that was promised under reasonable time or budget. Then it become a PR disaster with a lot of angry customers.
Inexperience in software development
Most colleges now offer a computer software degree, or a software engineering degree, or any computer-related program degree. However, most only started to offer real software-related degrees in the last 10 to 15 years. Meanwhile, the software industry exploded and demand for qualified programmers, software engineers and project leaders skyrocketed. Meanwhile, the video-game industry is still looking for 2 profiles: underpaid script kiddies, who know how to do some great achievements in C++, but knows jack about architecture or methodology, and glorious heroes coming from other video game companies with few titles in their resume. Of course, there are going to find a lot more kiddies than glorious heroes willing to accept low wage jobs with though under pressure schedules. I'm very confident this has a huge toll on the quality of their product. During that time, the best graduates are being hired by all the other industries. Especially in finance... since they kinda get the idea that a defect software may cost billions...
Lack of project management
Some games that were released lately promised the moon. Sometimes it's due to the marketing development, but sometimes it's due to a critical failure in project management. Sometimes, a manager has to setup a scope. This serves as a boundary for their development team of what to work on and what to put on hold. Some games released lately failed to deliver a good gameplay... but you had a nice quest tracker on your map!! And have you see the breathtaking water effect!! Alas, the game is unplayable. Ahh my character is taking 8 seconds to chop someone's head that is so cool... but I can't get out of this random animation so I'm getting killed by this assassin who decided to jump me. I think some team leader forgot to put the right priorities in terms of feature here :S
Wrong financial model
Sometimes I get the feeling some game studios are building MMO like they are all B2P (buy-to-play). If a game is meant to be subscription-based, it may not be realistic to get into the market with the expectation that your initial box sales should cover your entire development cost. This is just not the way it should be. P2P MMOs are a complete different creature than your local blockbuster games.
And again, I think some publishers should switch to the pay by hour model. Some games like Aion would benefit a lot from it; While it offers a narrow list of activities to do, players wouldn't mind keeping 'pay by hour subscriptions' for multiple games at the same time. The monthly subscription model only benefits to those few established behemoths since they offer a lot more to do than Aion (or any new MMO entering the market) for the same price.
Well, that was my Thursday night 2¢
You are starting some interesting threads Rockgod99
You arre not going to receive flames,because everyone has their opinion,but i disagree with you big time.First up i believe people will support qaulity over just quantity and Wow for one is only quantity VERY little quality.Making a million instances is not quality,you can hire any low budget developer to do that.Eve>>perfect?are you serious?It is a spreadsheet game that was released with sub par graphics and almost no detail to any aspect of it's game.It also completely ignored the ability to attract the female demographic,completely ignored useable planets and surfaces.Wel lnever mind i could go on for pages with Eve's flaws but no matter some people like the way it is,I'm not doubting their like,i just look at facts.
As far as expectations go,i have not found anyone's expectatiosn to be too high in any posts i have read about games.Many of us know the technology available,we know that DX10+ gives the develoeprs the tools to make better gaming with few bottleknecks but we don't see the results.There has been a couple VERY aggressive physics engines come about over the past few years,it would be a no brainer to utilize it to make a better product but still developers ignore all the tools.
I think it is very obvious that it is all about money.These developers weigh their options from day 1,they for the most part ,do not want to take the chance of a very high budget ,quality effort that could set them back years before they break even.SO they look to give us the bare minimum by now a days standards,which imo is barely one step above F2P quality.
How can we as gamers force developers to start giving us quality over the bare minimum?with our wallets of course,stop being NEEDY gamers,you do not NEED to play their games,show some restraint.The other problem is there is only a handful of big money developers that could afford to take the chance,so it doesn't leave us much hope.However i still believe there is a John Carmack waiting in the wings,taking his time to bring us the next cool thing.Until that happens expect the same old,RAID talk,Mounts talk,boring quests and players frantically trying to speed level like they couldn't care less how much of a game they bypass.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why would you get flamed? Most probably agree with you. I will say that if you really think that is what the majority of people want or expect from a new game you're probably mistaken. Well, I know you are at least where I'm concerned. Suppose I shouldn't just assume what others are looking for.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Why would you get flamed? Most probably agree with you. I will say that if you really think that is what the majority of people want or expect from a new game you're probably mistaken. Well, I know you are at least where I'm concerned. Suppose I shouldn't just assume what others are looking for.
Honestly I don't know what people want. I just hope they don't expect perfection on release day. I know I learnt my lesson with Warhammer.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
It doesn't matter what people want. It could be space age fantasy, medieval fantasy, pink princess fantasy, etc etc. All that matters is if th game is functional with good support. My first MMO, the one that turned me to the genre was UO. I barely remember any crashing or bugs (at least when I played). EQ1 was my second MMO I fell in love with and I cannot recall anything that pissed me off about bugs and crashing, or even a shitty UI. Then there was EQ2 which I loved but it was just retarded at first due to bugs and complexity to do menial tasks. Finally, WOW where I always seem to end up when another shitty MMO bores me or underperforms.
The next major MMO is about to be announced at Blizzcon. I hate to say it like a repeating record, but it will probably be the next MMO to come close to WOW numbers.
Yes if you stop playing right away.
However, if you play a game for a month and it doesn't make you want to pay for more then it wouldn't be worth it no matter what. If you don't want to play then you don't enjoy the game. Plain as that.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Perfection on release day? Not something to EXPECT?
Why not?
Years of developement and moths of testing should pretty much render a near perfect product. Other than an extreme overload of more players than realistically one could expect. I do not think that it is much to expect anything BUT a perfect product!!!
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
You didn't understand what I meant. It's not about copying a plot. All movies have elements such as pacing. That's just part of movies.
Come to think of it, all MMOs have pacing, too. Whether you level by levels or by skills, if you can do anything in the game world to make your character more powerful than it starts out as (and that includes power in the form of wealth), how fast or slow your character becomes powerful is a form of pacing.
Knowing what elements MMOs or movies have in common with other MMOs or movies and knowing some of the things that do and don't work within those elements is important, and requires the study of what has gone before.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
People see "perfection" in other games so why shouldn't they expect it from MMORPGs?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I have no problem having high expectations from these dev teams. Afterall, they're trying to grab my money. Whether they're trying to do it outright with P2P or being deceptive about it in F2P schemes.
So, outside the money spent, the other thing I have valuable to me is my free time. I have no time to waste on half-a**ed products that show signs that the ship is already sinking at the first month. I have no time to waste with developers that are slow in critical fixes or outright denying something's wrong despite many pointing out big problems. I have no time to waste with a game that is blatantly and horridly incomplete. Yes, MMORPGs by nature are never "complete," but there are limits. I have no time to waste on dev teams that already show early signs of adding no new content for badly incomplete games (why, hello STO, nice of you to show up). I have no time to waste on these guys telling me in fabulously typed out forum updates on all these cool things coming down the road within a few months (just keep paying). Because I've seen too many times in the past these baiting with a carrot tactics to string a customer along over the months while actually delivering little to nothing in return.
Lastly, I have no time to stay with an MMORPG when everyone's left in disgust. One of the most depressing things in all of gaming is staying in one of these freshly evacuated MMORPGs when everyone from launch left.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
We have seen technology take huge leaps in the past five years but gaming has not. We have seen ever increasing processing power and the development of the internet, broadband, cloud computing, smart phone platform, voice channels, voice command tech and motion control devices, robots with AI good enough to serve you a drink. But we are not getting any corresponding development in game play styles, when you played your first game online with other people it was amazing. Since then what new play styles have we had?
A revolution occurred when gaming moved online, then it petered out. The industry has always been supported by each new generation coming to gaming, they don’t ask awkward questions about content and game play styles. While those of us who have been around a bit ask, what’s new?