Just my opinion but the second part of games and movies mostly suck, why didn't they just improve on Guild Wars and make updates.
Because GW2 isn't REALLY a "part 2," that's why. GW and GW2 are not even exactly the same GENRE. GW, for one...isn't an MMO. GW2, however, will be. Personally, I understand them wanting to keep the GW's NAME in the title of the game, but...it's a bit of a misnomer, considering they're not the same TYPE of game. For EQ....that worked. EQ2 was a more "modern" MMORPG, whereas EQ was, also, an MMORPG. ArenaNet has never claimed GW to BE an MMO, so....to call their MMO "Guild Wars TWO" is sort of....misleading.
I agree with you on the "second part" of movies and stuff. Usually (though not always) the first part is the best. Thankfully though....GW2 isn't the second "part" of Guild Wars. It just sounds that way.
I saw what they did with GW1,a f2p model with f2p quality.So am i to beleive they have all of a sudden become a powerhouse developer?I also look at the math,Sqaure Enix developed a brilliant game both in content and design when they made FFXI.That game did not break even until 5 years of subscriptions,so how on earth is A-net going to turn a profit from box sales alone?IMo can't be done without taking away from quality.
What i feel this game is going to be is a lot of generated content,it will not have the feel of a well thought out game with everything placed by hand in the world to meet the great design.
What happens when players miss out on a world event?Login and do quests?I also see too much emphasis on PVP,many don't even care about PVP.I also know A-net is designing it to be a solo game,so how exaclty is that suppose to support the notion of teaming up for server domination?Jus tlike Wow you have everyone soloing then expect organized group play?
I see a lot of flaws in this game design,without any grouping structure,it fails in large as a MMO.If they think the whole world event idea is going to be this game breaking idea to change the face of the world,they are sorely mistaken,this idea has already been done in FFXI,called Beseiged.Players ONLY care about doing anything in a game,if it offers them some reward,mainly LOOT or at least the chance to gain tons of XP,they really don't care about saving the world.If a player got 5 shining loot drops and a ton of xp,they couldn't care less if the world vanquished.
So far A-net is a lot of talk,how many times have we heard a game is going to have meaningful ideas,example Warhammer,it has not happened yet in gaming,i very highly doubt that A-net is going to deliver much beyond hype and talk.Do i hope it turns out to be great?I sure do,i would love to play something meaningful,mathematics and structure ,i just don't see it happening.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Omg are you serous dude? No, guild wars will not be the top MMO. I may be the Best, but it wont be the top.
WoW is the top because it dumped millions of dollars into advertising. Its the only MMO to advertise on television in North America. Its one of the most generic MMOs ever. Look at Mafia Wars and Farmville. Browser games that came before them were much better. It has nothing to do with how good a game is. You have to be a complete idiot to think that better quality wins in this industry when you look at the games that come out on top and compare them to the games they dominate.
WoW appeals to people that aren't gamers. Its dumbed down so that anyone can get into it, just like farmville or mafia wars. There are far more "regular" people out there than there are "gamers". Guild Wars appeals to "gamers" not regular people, or rather, "casual" people.
How is this not common knowledge. Come on people.
Really?? Seriously?? Have you played the game?? How much more "casual" could you get?? I love GW and I'll love GW2. And there's not even a subscription fee so you don't feel guilty for not playing...now go back to bed and wake up when you're truely awake.
Good to see the the writers for this site are as insane as the forum users on this site.
GW2 will not be the biggest game out there, ever, literally ever. It is not going to happen, it has no chance of happening. This is just getting ridiculous now
People also forget the biggest reason why people stay with WoW, investment. They have invested their time and money in their characters and they get attached to them. This means the majority won't just jump ship when a new game comes out. Some of them will try new games and then a lot of those people will return to WoW because they don't want to take the time to build up their characters/build up their wealth/status in another game. They also have their guild and friends in WoW and that is a tough thing for many to leave.
The day people on this board understand that WoW molded GW into the game it was and GW2 follows in that tradition even more, they will come to understand that GW and GW2 complement WoW, not compete with it. The very nature of it's price point and debonair gameplay elements hold true to this fact.
But the main point of my post is to warn people not to blow things out of proportion. Don't over read things that are not there. You only do more harm than good for the devs creating this game. But honestly, it's too late for the hype of GW2 to be hurt by starstruck masses. The backlash will only be known when we see the release of A-Net's next endeavor.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Just my opinion but the second part of games and movies mostly suck, why didn't they just improve on Guild Wars and make updates.
The devs have several answers for that. One of them is that when a game is changed radically from right underneath the players, people who are attached to the way it was, get upset over it. They noted this from past MMOs when those have gone through major changes in mechanics and disappoint the current playerbase.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Just my opinion but the second part of games and movies mostly suck, why didn't they just improve on Guild Wars and make updates.
Because GW2 isn't REALLY a "part 2," that's why. GW and GW2 are not even exactly the same GENRE. GW, for one...isn't an MMO. GW2, however, will be. Personally, I understand them wanting to keep the GW's NAME in the title of the game, but...it's a bit of a misnomer, considering they're not the same TYPE of game. For EQ....that worked. EQ2 was a more "modern" MMORPG, whereas EQ was, also, an MMORPG. ArenaNet has never claimed GW to BE an MMO, so....to call their MMO "Guild Wars TWO" is sort of....misleading.
I agree with you on the "second part" of movies and stuff. Usually (though not always) the first part is the best. Thankfully though....GW2 isn't the second "part" of Guild Wars. It just sounds that way.
Well this I agree and disagree with. I agree that calling it GW2 can be misleading to those that don't bother reading about the game and make an assumption from the title. I disagree, however, because it is the same world that the team built in GW1 so it is their product, and a known one at that. The first may not have been classified as an mmo, but a lot of the stuff that the people who played GW enjoyed is gonna be there and seem familiar to them.
This example would be like saying FFXI should not have been called 11 since it was an mmo and none of the previouse ones were. It still had a lot of the things the FF series was known for.
Good to see the the writers for this site are as insane as the forum users on this site.
GW2 will not be the biggest game out there, ever, literally ever. It is not going to happen, it has no chance of happening. This is just getting ridiculous now
People also forget the biggest reason why people stay with WoW, investment. They have invested their time and money in their characters and they get attached to them. This means the majority won't just jump ship when a new game comes out. Some of them will try new games and then a lot of those people will return to WoW because they don't want to take the time to build up their characters/build up their wealth/status in another game. They also have their guild and friends in WoW and that is a tough thing for many to leave.
Hmm. Well....I agree wtih leaving long time guilds and guildmates being difficult. That was actually the ONE thing (my family was also in the guild) that I held onto that kept be playing the last year I played, however.....eventually, for some people, that alone isn't enough to keep them in the game and....many that leave do NOT return.
I had lots of time and effort invested and many level 80 characters and all the crafting professions maxed as well. There is a HUGE time investment there. But....I eventually left WoW, nonetheless, and others have (and will) as well. Now....will EVERYONE eventually leave? Probably not. But the things you mentioned are not enough to hold people hostage forever IF they become burnt out and just simply don't care anymore, and....that DOES happen.
Personally...I enjoy the leveling up part of a game MUCH more than end game ANYWAY. So "starting over" to ME....is a new exciting ADVENTURE. I don't cringe at the idea of leaving a game to "start over" somewhere else, if I perceive there will be a new adventure for me. Adventure is what it's all about to me. The fresh new experience of exploring new worlds, meeting new people, and whatnot....what else is it ABOUT? Just my opinion, of course.
Originally posted by Wizardry
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I see a lot of flaws in this game design,without any grouping structure,it fails in large as a MMO.If they think the whole world event idea is going to be this game breaking idea to change the face of the world,they are sorely mistaken,this idea has already been done in FFXI,called Beseiged.Players ONLY care about doing anything in a game,if it offers them some reward,mainly LOOT or at least the chance to gain tons of XP,they really don't care about saving the world.If a player got 5 shining loot drops and a ton of xp,they couldn't care less if the world vanquished.
So far A-net is a lot of talk,how many times have we heard a game is going to have meaningful ideas,example Warhammer,it has not happened yet in gaming,i very highly doubt that A-net is going to deliver much beyond hype and talk.Do i hope it turns out to be great?I sure do,i would love to play something meaningful,mathematics and structure ,i just don't see it happening.
Well...the dynamic content WILL have loot and xp attached to it for individuals, and...it won't be done in the same was as it was in WAR, so....this might be a moot point in regards to people wanting to participate.
I saw what they did with GW1,a f2p model with f2p quality.So am i to beleive they have all of a sudden become a powerhouse developer?I also look at the math,Sqaure Enix developed a brilliant game both in content and design when they made FFXI.That game did not break even until 5 years of subscriptions,so how on earth is A-net going to turn a profit from box sales alone?IMo can't be done without taking away from quality.
What i feel this game is going to be is a lot of generated content,it will not have the feel of a well thought out game with everything placed by hand in the world to meet the great design.
What happens when players miss out on a world event?Login and do quests?I also see too much emphasis on PVP,many don't even care about PVP.I also know A-net is designing it to be a solo game,so how exaclty is that suppose to support the notion of teaming up for server domination?Jus tlike Wow you have everyone soloing then expect organized group play?
I see a lot of flaws in this game design,without any grouping structure,it fails in large as a MMO.If they think the whole world event idea is going to be this game breaking idea to change the face of the world,they are sorely mistaken,this idea has already been done in FFXI,called Beseiged.Players ONLY care about doing anything in a game,if it offers them some reward,mainly LOOT or at least the chance to gain tons of XP,they really don't care about saving the world.If a player got 5 shining loot drops and a ton of xp,they couldn't care less if the world vanquished.
So far A-net is a lot of talk,how many times have we heard a game is going to have meaningful ideas,example Warhammer,it has not happened yet in gaming,i very highly doubt that A-net is going to deliver much beyond hype and talk.Do i hope it turns out to be great?I sure do,i would love to play something meaningful,mathematics and structure ,i just don't see it happening.
It seems to me that you just read what people say and don't read or see what Arena.net shows in articles, interviews and videos. You have a COMPLETELY WRONG idea of GW2 mate. Go search before showing that you don't know you are talking about. "world events"=wrong; "enphasis on PVP, many don't car about PVP"=2x wrong; "A-net solo game and not support the notion of teaming up for server domination"=wrong; "no grouping structure, it fails as large as a MMO"= wrong.
And why are you wrong? Because they developed completely new ideas that you haven't seen before in MMORPGs. So all you're opinions about GW2 are failing badly because you haven't searched why all they are saying is actually good and possible. If I start explainning to you all the info of GW2, this will take me hours to do it, so just search before talk about it.
AND for you and Ramonski7, that clearly haven't search for info too (molded from WoW? what? Dynamic Event System? Dye System? different kind of rewards? Sidekick System? and I haven't even talked about half of it.... yeah right! , although this game is not going to be a complement of WoW, it will be a revolution in the MMORPG industry because finally we have a lot of changes in making mmorpgs only in this game, whether or not they will be successful, they will still change the way the devs will make mmorpgs in the future, and WoW is not the MMORPG industry)
I will just tell you one concept that might actually be the GW2 devs philosophy since they started releasing info about the game (they said it several times): All the info released about the game is already implemented and running in the game, instead of a lot of other game devs that say "this will be in the game" and later it isn't or it's completely different from what was said.
Good to see the the writers for this site are as insane as the forum users on this site.
GW2 will not be the biggest game out there, ever, literally ever. It is not going to happen, it has no chance of happening. This is just getting ridiculous now
People also forget the biggest reason why people stay with WoW, investment. They have invested their time and money in their characters and they get attached to them. This means the majority won't just jump ship when a new game comes out. Some of them will try new games and then a lot of those people will return to WoW because they don't want to take the time to build up their characters/build up their wealth/status in another game. They also have their guild and friends in WoW and that is a tough thing for many to leave.
Hmm. Well....I agree wtih leaving long time guilds and guildmates being difficult. That was actually the ONE thing (my family was also in the guild) that I held onto that kept be playing the last year I played, however.....eventually, for some people, that alone isn't enough to keep them in the game and....many that leave do NOT return.
I had lots of time and effort invested and many level 80 characters and all the crafting professions maxed as well. There is a HUGE time investment there. But....I eventually left WoW, nonetheless, and others have (and will) as well. Now....will EVERYONE eventually leave? Probably not. But the things you mentioned are not enough to hold people hostage forever IF they become burnt out and just simply don't care anymore, and....that DOES happen.
Personally...I enjoy the leveling up part of a game MUCH more than end game ANYWAY. So "starting over" to ME....is a new exciting ADVENTURE. I don't cringe at the idea of leaving a game to "start over" somewhere else, if I perceive there will be a new adventure for me. Adventure is what it's all about to me. The fresh new experience of exploring new worlds, meeting new people, and whatnot....what else is it ABOUT? Just my opinion, of course.
A common flaw of poster on this site is the "I did this so clearly lots of others will too." argument. You left WoW and so did other people, of course it happens (I tried WoW myself and hated it and left shortly after getting there). 12 million other people have not left WoW. Will even 2 million of those people suddenly quit WoW and jump onto GW2 when it is released? NO and the reasons are what I said above along with the fact that there are millions of people who are not even burned out on WoW yet, they still find it fun.
So just because some people have left WoW does not mean that millions others will do so as well just because a new game pops up. There have been plenty of big launches since WoW has existed and there will be plenty more and it will just keep on chugging along without paying very much attention to those other titles.
It is just insane (this isn't directed at you) that people on this forum forget this EVERY SINGLE TIME A NEW GAME GETS ANNOUNCED. Everytime there are people who are like "Oh this time will be the time that WoW gets killed." No it won't. It wasn't last time, it won't be this time, and it won't be next time. To honestly believe otherwise is just naive and silly. Truthfully I am baffled when adults think this way as they should know better.
/sigh Did I mention that people don't bother to read about the game? I think I did.....
Don't you know that reading takes TIME?! We're all too busy leveling up our bitching skill to waste time with READING. You must be a forum n00b.
At the rate I'm going...I figure I should have my bitching skill cape in another....oh....two levels! Which, I might add, I can reach by next week IF....and ONLY IF....I don't waste time READING. :P
So just because some people have left WoW does not mean that millions others will do so as well just because a new game pops up. There have been plenty of big launches since WoW has existed and there will be plenty more and it will just keep on chugging along without paying very much attention to those other titles.
It is just insane (this isn't directed at you) that people on this forum forget this EVERY SINGLE TIME A NEW GAME GETS ANNOUNCED. Everytime there are people who are like "Oh this time will be the time that WoW gets killed." No it won't. It wasn't last time, it won't be this time, and it won't be next time. To honestly believe otherwise is just naive and silly. Truthfully I am baffled when adults think this way as they should know better.
I know it's not directed at me, but an over all observation. I got that. And TRUST ME....I certainly do NOT think that GW2 is a "WoW Killer," I too think that sort of thinking is nothing shy of delusional....just so you know. But...people do leave, and some of them don't return, and I did "thus and so" usually DOES mean that out of 12 million people...I'm not the ONLY person that will do the same. Odds are...there will be others. Will it make a huge dent in WoW's population? Uhm....no....I don't think so. For every one that leaves, they will attract two others. Why? Because it's WoW....that's why.
And why are you wrong? Because they developed completely new ideas that you haven't seen before in MMORPGs. So all you're opinions about GW2 are failing badly because you haven't searched why all they are saying is actually good and possible. If I start explainning to you all the info of GW2, this will take me hours to do it, so just search before talk about it.
AND for you and Ramonski7, that clearly haven't search for info too (all from WoW? what? Dynamic Event System? Dye System? different kind of rewards? Sidekick System? and I haven't even talked about half of it.... yeah right! )
Care to list all of these things that have never been done before?
Dye system? Wow Asheron's Call has had that for a decade now and it also has a tailoring system on top of that. So you can dye your clothes/armor and you can also take the look of a piece of armor and put it into another one. So let's say you have a breastplate with good stats but looks like platemail and you want leather. You find a leather breastplate that looks the way you want and you tailor that onto your original plate breastplate. Now you have a leasther breastplate with the stats of the plate breastplate. This allows for a lot of customization and changes to your character's look.
Dynamic events? Ohh ahh. Asheron's call has done that many times where depening on which part of an event/quest were completed caused different things to change on the world. Not only is it not original it is extremely easy to do. Vanguard had the diplomacy system which allowed for people to turn on and off different things in cities (mostly buffs in the first month which is when I quit so could be more now) and was dynamic based on which NPCs the players were being diplomatic with and players could go in and undo what others had done and turn something else on.
Sidekick System? I will wait until I hear more from you about what it is but I will cover two options. One is that you have a creature/person AI that fights along with you. This has been done in many MMOs and they level and you give them gear. So I hope it isn't that if you're calling it something new. Another is that you team up with someone and you share XP to help keep each other close in level, also been done by several MMOs.
I really want to hear all of these "new never been done" things because everytime I hear about such things in MMOs they're never new. They are generally only new to people who haven't tried very many MMOs or who started with WoW and that is all they have played. I keep hearing the same thing about SW:ToR and haven't heard anything actually new yet.
Nothing wrong with hoping though is there? I agree to put too much into a game that isn't out yet and claim it will "Kill" anything is silly. But to go on a forum about the game you want to play and psych yourself up isn't. I am one of "those" WoW players because my wife and best friends play, so about 8 of us wil be ones of "those" leaving WoW when a GOOD game comes out. You make a valid point, but tbh nothing has come out, and this is my opinion and those closest to me that matter, that has been worth leaving it for. I'll admit I don't care for WoW myself, but it makes the family happy so I play. GW2 has struck a nerve and made me and those closest excited. Nothing wrong with that. So i do read every scrap of info so I can talk about it amongst my pals, and we are all stoked. I very much doubt it will be the destroyer of worlds, but it already has 8 members waiting to move.
/sigh Did I mention that people don't bother to read about the game? I think I did.....
Don't you know that reading takes TIME?! We're all too busy leveling up our bitching skill to waste time with READING. You must be a forum n00b.
At the rate I'm going...I figure I should have my bitching skill cape in another....oh....two levels! Which, I might add, I can reach by next week IF....and ONLY IF....I don't waste time READING. :P
The day people on this board understand that WoW molded GW into the game it was and GW2 follows in that tradition even more, they will come to understand that GW and GW2 complement WoW, not compete with it. The very nature of it's price point and debonair gameplay elements hold true to this fact.
Duh, all three games started as an idea by the same guy: Jeff Strain.
But GW was modeled on another game he made: Diablo and not Wow. It have some Wow like features but are actually closer to Lineage than Wow (besides the grind of course).
GW and GW2 were not meant to compete over the same players as Wow but are made for different people, just like Starcraft and Diablo. Some people will like both of course but the main focus groups differs.
As for price model, that is a load of bull. Wow were also originally intended to be B2P but Blizz board of directors (who didn't really believe in the game from start) saw the potential and decided to make it F2P, and several of the best people quit because of that and founded ANET instead.
Battle.net doesn't have any monthly fee either, because it were made by Strain too and he, O'Brien and the rest just don't believe in monthly fees. In fact Blizzard wanted to charge a monthly fee for it at first but he persuaded them to leave it free.
Anyways: There are similarities between Wow, GW and GW 2 and it would be weird otherwise but GW 2 is still one of the games that uses most new ideas and that is what makes it interesting.
1) To the person claiming WoW molded GW into what it is, thank you for that laugh. Actually try GW first before you comment on it. It is NOTHING like WoW. That's not to claim WoW is a bad game, this has nothing to do with the quality of the game. This has to do with yet another fanboi swearing that their game started it all. Explain to me what part of GW is 'molded' from WoW? The fact that you can solo? Soloing didn't come until years later with the advent of Heroes. That it's casual? It's only casual if you want it to be, there are plenty of things about GW that are hardcore; go work on the Vanquisher and Elite Protector titles and while you're at it, get to work on Obsidian Armor, maybe even some Vabbian as well if millions of gold in ecto and shards isn't enough of a money sink for you.
2) GW2 is not going to be a WoW Killer. You CANNOT kill a game just by inventing something newer and shinier (*cough* ULTIMA *cough). Look, if Darkfail can still exist and maintain a player base (which while hard to believe, is true) then WoW is certainly not going anywhere. It's here to stay, get over it. That people keep trying to compare games to WoW and keep trying to rave about it's impending doom shows only a bitterness that is unnecessary, immature and extremely tiring.
3) Yes the events will eventually reset. I've seen some bitching about this, which I am amused by. If they didn't reset, not all players would get to participate. Tell me, would you enjoy playing a game that's been live for years now, knowing there's a TON of things you'll never ever ever get to do just because you were late to the party? Of course not. A-Net's mention of these events affecting the game is still worthwhile despite the eventual reset, because the quests, the loot, even the monsters you will fight and the storylines you will see are BASED ON THE EVENTS AND HOW THEY HAPPENED. Meaning there are things you will and will not get to do based on how other players in the world have affected it, for a time. Think of like rereading your favorite book, and finding something new. Why is that a bad thing?
4) It's called Guild Wars 2 because it follows the original storyline. The game is based on events a few hundred years into the future, and the characters you made and the things you did in part 1 will have an impact on your character in part 2. It's not huge and supposedly largely an aesthetic bonus, but the games are linked at least in that way (and before the arguments start, it was already stated that people that have never played the original guild wars will NOT be required to just to keep up with the people who have). Further, the events in the game began after the events of GWEN (Guild Wars: Eye of the North). SPOILER ALERT: The story is meant as a way for the player to gather the 6 heroes that originally fought together (Caith, Ritlock, etc), some of which are directly descended from characters in the original Guild Wars (Gwen's great grandson or something like that being one of them, the warrior dude who's name I can't remember atm). These are the new era of heroes necessary to fix the world much in the same way their forefathers/mothers did. Also at the end of GWEN from GW1, the cinematic shows one of the dragons awakening, a sign of events to come. In fact, the female dragon can be seen under one of the frozen lakes in Norn Territory in the first GW. This all sets a bunch of events into motion; The rise of Zaitan destroys Lion's Reach and makes travel to Cantha (Factions) and Elona (Nightfall) impossible, The undead dude ends up taking over Elona, Cantha's two factions are united under one man, refugees of many races gather and leave their differences behind to take on the dragons together, dwarves remain underground and are mostly hidden from society, etc etc etc etc...Lots of story, too much to cover here. Go read Ghosts of Ascalon and the lore on the websites if you're really curious.
Well, I think this wall of text is sufficient *nod*
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I saw what they did with GW1,a f2p model with f2p quality.So am i to beleive they have all of a sudden become a powerhouse developer?I also look at the math,Sqaure Enix developed a brilliant game both in content and design when they made FFXI.That game did not break even until 5 years of subscriptions,so how on earth is A-net going to turn a profit from box sales alone?IMo can't be done without taking away from quality.
What i feel this game is going to be is a lot of generated content,it will not have the feel of a well thought out game with everything placed by hand in the world to meet the great design.
What happens when players miss out on a world event?Login and do quests?I also see too much emphasis on PVP,many don't even care about PVP.I also know A-net is designing it to be a solo game,so how exaclty is that suppose to support the notion of teaming up for server domination?Jus tlike Wow you have everyone soloing then expect organized group play?
I see a lot of flaws in this game design,without any grouping structure,it fails in large as a MMO.If they think the whole world event idea is going to be this game breaking idea to change the face of the world,they are sorely mistaken,this idea has already been done in FFXI,called Beseiged.Players ONLY care about doing anything in a game,if it offers them some reward,mainly LOOT or at least the chance to gain tons of XP,they really don't care about saving the world.If a player got 5 shining loot drops and a ton of xp,they couldn't care less if the world vanquished.
So far A-net is a lot of talk,how many times have we heard a game is going to have meaningful ideas,example Warhammer,it has not happened yet in gaming,i very highly doubt that A-net is going to deliver much beyond hype and talk.Do i hope it turns out to be great?I sure do,i would love to play something meaningful,mathematics and structure ,i just don't see it happening.
It seems to me that you just read what people say and don't read or see what Arena.net shows in articles, interviews and videos. You have a COMPLETELY WRONG idea of GW2 mate. Go search before showing that you don't know you are talking about. "world events"=wrong; "enphasis on PVP, many don't car about PVP"=2x wrong; "A-net solo game and not support the notion of teaming up for server domination"=wrong; "no grouping structure, it fails as large as a MMO"= wrong.
And why are you wrong? Because they developed completely new ideas that you haven't seen before in MMORPGs. So all you're opinions about GW2 are failing badly because you haven't searched why all they are saying is actually good and possible. If I start explainning to you all the info of GW2, this will take me hours to do it, so just search before talk about it.
AND for you and Ramonski7, that clearly haven't search for info too (molded from WoW? what? Dynamic Event System? Dye System? different kind of rewards? Sidekick System? and I haven't even talked about half of it.... yeah right! , although this game is not going to be a complement of WoW, it will be a revolution in the MMORPG industry because finally we have a lot of changes in making mmorpgs only in this game, whether or not they will be successful, they will still change the way the devs will make mmorpgs in the future, and WoW is not the MMORPG industry)
I will just tell you one concept that might actually be the GW2 devs philosophy since they started releasing info about the game (they said it several times): All the info released about the game is already implemented and running in the game, instead of a lot of other game devs that say "this will be in the game" and later it isn't or it's completely different from what was said.
Who said anything about molded from? I SAID molded to....TO..complement WoW. You know, like the B2P price model? That was a DIRECT effect of A.net not wanting to go head to head with WoW to compete with subscription numbers. And it was a very suave move I might add. It's debonair gameplay and instant level 20 out the box characters. Yet another hurdle lowered so players don't have to feel overwhelmed from playing two mmos.
You really have to let down your guard some and approach this from another angle. The business model and the casual gameplay elements are both drawn from A.net looking at WoW and deciding it's best to work with the beast that fight it head 2 head.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
And why are you wrong? Because they developed completely new ideas that you haven't seen before in MMORPGs. So all you're opinions about GW2 are failing badly because you haven't searched why all they are saying is actually good and possible. If I start explainning to you all the info of GW2, this will take me hours to do it, so just search before talk about it.
AND for you and Ramonski7, that clearly haven't search for info too (all from WoW? what? Dynamic Event System? Dye System? different kind of rewards? Sidekick System? and I haven't even talked about half of it.... yeah right! )
Care to list all of these things that have never been done before?
Dye system? Wow Asheron's Call has had that for a decade now and it also has a tailoring system on top of that. So you can dye your clothes/armor and you can also take the look of a piece of armor and put it into another one. So let's say you have a breastplate with good stats but looks like platemail and you want leather. You find a leather breastplate that looks the way you want and you tailor that onto your original plate breastplate. Now you have a leasther breastplate with the stats of the plate breastplate. This allows for a lot of customization and changes to your character's look.
Dynamic events? Ohh ahh. Asheron's call has done that many times where depening on which part of an event/quest were completed caused different things to change on the world. Not only is it not original it is extremely easy to do. Vanguard had the diplomacy system which allowed for people to turn on and off different things in cities (mostly buffs in the first month which is when I quit so could be more now) and was dynamic based on which NPCs the players were being diplomatic with and players could go in and undo what others had done and turn something else on.
Sidekick System? I will wait until I hear more from you about what it is but I will cover two options. One is that you have a creature/person AI that fights along with you. This has been done in many MMOs and they level and you give them gear. So I hope it isn't that if you're calling it something new. Another is that you team up with someone and you share XP to help keep each other close in level, also been done by several MMOs.
I really want to hear all of these "new never been done" things because everytime I hear about such things in MMOs they're never new. They are generally only new to people who haven't tried very many MMOs or who started with WoW and that is all they have played. I keep hearing the same thing about SW:ToR and haven't heard anything actually new yet.
Decade? wasn't WoW released in 2004? lol and BTW, GW1 had a dye system too. But the new Dye system in GW2 makes each piece of gear have 3 different colours, in wich you have the freedom to dye with the colours you want (and the colours are so many that they counted a probability of reaching 400+ colours, if they want to reach that much, and considering that each material has different tones when using the same colour, because they logically are different materials).
Dynamic Events System: ok, so in WoW can you see: a city that's actually beeing attacked and destroyed ("instead of mobs "picking daysies")? the mobs turn the city into a fort if you don't save it? the fort sending mob-scouts to domain other cities? The city rebuilds itself and the npc's get revived if you drive the mobs away and stay there to protect it while its rebuild? the events happening without the players talk with an npc? the events happening in the same place as other events? the rewards beeing set by the amount of contirbution each player did in each event? only 1 event lead to 3-5 different events considering different results? the rewards aren't shared, everyone gets the total of the rewards from the event (considering their contribution)? you beeing able to play and recieve as much as other players in the same event without the need to be in the same party? no KS? no reason for leavers? no reason to stay in the "best spot to lvl up"?..... The difficulty goes up/down considering the number of active players doing the event?..........want me to continue?
About Sidekick System, it's easy: if you are a player of lvl 40 and you go play into a area of lvl 12 mobs, you have all your stats back to lvl 12-13. And the contrary happens as well, if you had been in that higher lvl area with another character (to avoid spoil).
You want more??? Traits system..... More? Personal Story...... Even more? Personality since the character creation and beeing able to change it considering your choices in traits, personal story, etc.... Not enough? Skill bar and Skill combos from different characters.
And BTW.... I play MMORPGs for more than a decade!
Well SnarlingWolf, you are wrong on all those points because you didn't do your research. I won't repeat what the others have already said. I'll be brief on one point. The sidekick system in GW2 will be similar to the sidekick system in CoH, it has nothing to do with AI companions/henchman which you are assuming it is. Btw, GW1 has an henchman/companion system fully supported but in GW2 it will be limited to certain areas.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Who said anything about molded from? I SAID molded to....TO..complement WoW. You know, like the B2P price model? That was a DIRECT effect of A.net not wanting to go head to head with WoW to compete with subscription numbers. And it was a very suave move I might add. It's debonair gameplay and instant level 20 out the box characters. Yet another hurdle lowered so players don't have to feel overwhelmed from playing two mmos.
You really have to let down your guard some and approach this from another angle. The business model and the casual gameplay elements are both drawn from A.net looking at WoW and deciding it's best to work with the beast that fight it head 2 head.
GW1 was B2P before WoW get even close to the poppularity it has now. It's not because of WoW, it's because of ALL OTHER MMORPGs out there, whether they are F2P or P2P. Most players argue about not playing one of those 2 payment models because they don't have money for monthly subs or they don't wanna "pay to win". It's not DIRECT effect my friend, you just think and hope it is. But I consider that WoW does have a good influence in their choice for GW2 payment model, althouth they probably were already thinking in doing the same thing they did with GW1, which was a great financial success. why not use it with GW2 too?
Comments
Because GW2 isn't REALLY a "part 2," that's why. GW and GW2 are not even exactly the same GENRE. GW, for one...isn't an MMO. GW2, however, will be. Personally, I understand them wanting to keep the GW's NAME in the title of the game, but...it's a bit of a misnomer, considering they're not the same TYPE of game. For EQ....that worked. EQ2 was a more "modern" MMORPG, whereas EQ was, also, an MMORPG. ArenaNet has never claimed GW to BE an MMO, so....to call their MMO "Guild Wars TWO" is sort of....misleading.
I agree with you on the "second part" of movies and stuff. Usually (though not always) the first part is the best. Thankfully though....GW2 isn't the second "part" of Guild Wars. It just sounds that way.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I saw what they did with GW1,a f2p model with f2p quality.So am i to beleive they have all of a sudden become a powerhouse developer?I also look at the math,Sqaure Enix developed a brilliant game both in content and design when they made FFXI.That game did not break even until 5 years of subscriptions,so how on earth is A-net going to turn a profit from box sales alone?IMo can't be done without taking away from quality.
What i feel this game is going to be is a lot of generated content,it will not have the feel of a well thought out game with everything placed by hand in the world to meet the great design.
What happens when players miss out on a world event?Login and do quests?I also see too much emphasis on PVP,many don't even care about PVP.I also know A-net is designing it to be a solo game,so how exaclty is that suppose to support the notion of teaming up for server domination?Jus tlike Wow you have everyone soloing then expect organized group play?
I see a lot of flaws in this game design,without any grouping structure,it fails in large as a MMO.If they think the whole world event idea is going to be this game breaking idea to change the face of the world,they are sorely mistaken,this idea has already been done in FFXI,called Beseiged.Players ONLY care about doing anything in a game,if it offers them some reward,mainly LOOT or at least the chance to gain tons of XP,they really don't care about saving the world.If a player got 5 shining loot drops and a ton of xp,they couldn't care less if the world vanquished.
So far A-net is a lot of talk,how many times have we heard a game is going to have meaningful ideas,example Warhammer,it has not happened yet in gaming,i very highly doubt that A-net is going to deliver much beyond hype and talk.Do i hope it turns out to be great?I sure do,i would love to play something meaningful,mathematics and structure ,i just don't see it happening.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Really?? Seriously?? Have you played the game?? How much more "casual" could you get?? I love GW and I'll love GW2. And there's not even a subscription fee so you don't feel guilty for not playing...now go back to bed and wake up when you're truely awake.
Good to see the the writers for this site are as insane as the forum users on this site.
GW2 will not be the biggest game out there, ever, literally ever. It is not going to happen, it has no chance of happening. This is just getting ridiculous now
People also forget the biggest reason why people stay with WoW, investment. They have invested their time and money in their characters and they get attached to them. This means the majority won't just jump ship when a new game comes out. Some of them will try new games and then a lot of those people will return to WoW because they don't want to take the time to build up their characters/build up their wealth/status in another game. They also have their guild and friends in WoW and that is a tough thing for many to leave.
The day people on this board understand that WoW molded GW into the game it was and GW2 follows in that tradition even more, they will come to understand that GW and GW2 complement WoW, not compete with it. The very nature of it's price point and debonair gameplay elements hold true to this fact.
But the main point of my post is to warn people not to blow things out of proportion. Don't over read things that are not there. You only do more harm than good for the devs creating this game. But honestly, it's too late for the hype of GW2 to be hurt by starstruck masses. The backlash will only be known when we see the release of A-Net's next endeavor.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
How can it dominate 2010 when it's being released in 2011?
The devs have several answers for that. One of them is that when a game is changed radically from right underneath the players, people who are attached to the way it was, get upset over it. They noted this from past MMOs when those have gone through major changes in mechanics and disappoint the current playerbase.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Well this I agree and disagree with. I agree that calling it GW2 can be misleading to those that don't bother reading about the game and make an assumption from the title. I disagree, however, because it is the same world that the team built in GW1 so it is their product, and a known one at that. The first may not have been classified as an mmo, but a lot of the stuff that the people who played GW enjoyed is gonna be there and seem familiar to them.
This example would be like saying FFXI should not have been called 11 since it was an mmo and none of the previouse ones were. It still had a lot of the things the FF series was known for.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Hmm. Well....I agree wtih leaving long time guilds and guildmates being difficult. That was actually the ONE thing (my family was also in the guild) that I held onto that kept be playing the last year I played, however.....eventually, for some people, that alone isn't enough to keep them in the game and....many that leave do NOT return.
I had lots of time and effort invested and many level 80 characters and all the crafting professions maxed as well. There is a HUGE time investment there. But....I eventually left WoW, nonetheless, and others have (and will) as well. Now....will EVERYONE eventually leave? Probably not. But the things you mentioned are not enough to hold people hostage forever IF they become burnt out and just simply don't care anymore, and....that DOES happen.
Personally...I enjoy the leveling up part of a game MUCH more than end game ANYWAY. So "starting over" to ME....is a new exciting ADVENTURE. I don't cringe at the idea of leaving a game to "start over" somewhere else, if I perceive there will be a new adventure for me. Adventure is what it's all about to me. The fresh new experience of exploring new worlds, meeting new people, and whatnot....what else is it ABOUT? Just my opinion, of course.
Well...the dynamic content WILL have loot and xp attached to it for individuals, and...it won't be done in the same was as it was in WAR, so....this might be a moot point in regards to people wanting to participate.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
It seems to me that you just read what people say and don't read or see what Arena.net shows in articles, interviews and videos. You have a COMPLETELY WRONG idea of GW2 mate. Go search before showing that you don't know you are talking about. "world events"=wrong; "enphasis on PVP, many don't car about PVP"=2x wrong; "A-net solo game and not support the notion of teaming up for server domination"=wrong; "no grouping structure, it fails as large as a MMO"= wrong.
And why are you wrong? Because they developed completely new ideas that you haven't seen before in MMORPGs. So all you're opinions about GW2 are failing badly because you haven't searched why all they are saying is actually good and possible. If I start explainning to you all the info of GW2, this will take me hours to do it, so just search before talk about it.
AND for you and Ramonski7, that clearly haven't search for info too (molded from WoW? what? Dynamic Event System? Dye System? different kind of rewards? Sidekick System? and I haven't even talked about half of it.... yeah right!
, although this game is not going to be a complement of WoW, it will be a revolution in the MMORPG industry because finally we have a lot of changes in making mmorpgs only in this game, whether or not they will be successful, they will still change the way the devs will make mmorpgs in the future, and WoW is not the MMORPG industry)
I will just tell you one concept that might actually be the GW2 devs philosophy since they started releasing info about the game (they said it several times): All the info released about the game is already implemented and running in the game, instead of a lot of other game devs that say "this will be in the game" and later it isn't or it's completely different from what was said.
/sigh Did I mention that people don't bother to read about the game? I think I did.....
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
A common flaw of poster on this site is the "I did this so clearly lots of others will too." argument. You left WoW and so did other people, of course it happens (I tried WoW myself and hated it and left shortly after getting there). 12 million other people have not left WoW. Will even 2 million of those people suddenly quit WoW and jump onto GW2 when it is released? NO and the reasons are what I said above along with the fact that there are millions of people who are not even burned out on WoW yet, they still find it fun.
So just because some people have left WoW does not mean that millions others will do so as well just because a new game pops up. There have been plenty of big launches since WoW has existed and there will be plenty more and it will just keep on chugging along without paying very much attention to those other titles.
It is just insane (this isn't directed at you) that people on this forum forget this EVERY SINGLE TIME A NEW GAME GETS ANNOUNCED. Everytime there are people who are like "Oh this time will be the time that WoW gets killed." No it won't. It wasn't last time, it won't be this time, and it won't be next time. To honestly believe otherwise is just naive and silly. Truthfully I am baffled when adults think this way as they should know better.
Don't you know that reading takes TIME?! We're all too busy leveling up our bitching skill to waste time with READING. You must be a forum n00b.
At the rate I'm going...I figure I should have my bitching skill cape in another....oh....two levels! Which, I might add, I can reach by next week IF....and ONLY IF....I don't waste time READING. :P
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I know it's not directed at me, but an over all observation. I got that.
And TRUST ME....I certainly do NOT think that GW2 is a "WoW Killer," I too think that sort of thinking is nothing shy of delusional....just so you know. But...people do leave, and some of them don't return, and I did "thus and so" usually DOES mean that out of 12 million people...I'm not the ONLY person that will do the same. Odds are...there will be others. Will it make a huge dent in WoW's population? Uhm....no....I don't think so. For every one that leaves, they will attract two others. Why? Because it's WoW....that's why.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Care to list all of these things that have never been done before?
Dye system? Wow Asheron's Call has had that for a decade now and it also has a tailoring system on top of that. So you can dye your clothes/armor and you can also take the look of a piece of armor and put it into another one. So let's say you have a breastplate with good stats but looks like platemail and you want leather. You find a leather breastplate that looks the way you want and you tailor that onto your original plate breastplate. Now you have a leasther breastplate with the stats of the plate breastplate. This allows for a lot of customization and changes to your character's look.
Dynamic events? Ohh ahh. Asheron's call has done that many times where depening on which part of an event/quest were completed caused different things to change on the world. Not only is it not original it is extremely easy to do. Vanguard had the diplomacy system which allowed for people to turn on and off different things in cities (mostly buffs in the first month which is when I quit so could be more now) and was dynamic based on which NPCs the players were being diplomatic with and players could go in and undo what others had done and turn something else on.
Sidekick System? I will wait until I hear more from you about what it is but I will cover two options. One is that you have a creature/person AI that fights along with you. This has been done in many MMOs and they level and you give them gear. So I hope it isn't that if you're calling it something new. Another is that you team up with someone and you share XP to help keep each other close in level, also been done by several MMOs.
I really want to hear all of these "new never been done" things because everytime I hear about such things in MMOs they're never new. They are generally only new to people who haven't tried very many MMOs or who started with WoW and that is all they have played. I keep hearing the same thing about SW:ToR and haven't heard anything actually new yet.
Nothing wrong with hoping though is there? I agree to put too much into a game that isn't out yet and claim it will "Kill" anything is silly. But to go on a forum about the game you want to play and psych yourself up isn't. I am one of "those" WoW players because my wife and best friends play, so about 8 of us wil be ones of "those" leaving WoW when a GOOD game comes out. You make a valid point, but tbh nothing has come out, and this is my opinion and those closest to me that matter, that has been worth leaving it for. I'll admit I don't care for WoW myself, but it makes the family happy so I play. GW2 has struck a nerve and made me and those closest excited. Nothing wrong with that. So i do read every scrap of info so I can talk about it amongst my pals, and we are all stoked. I very much doubt it will be the destroyer of worlds, but it already has 8 members waiting to move.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Duh, all three games started as an idea by the same guy: Jeff Strain.
But GW was modeled on another game he made: Diablo and not Wow. It have some Wow like features but are actually closer to Lineage than Wow (besides the grind of course).
GW and GW2 were not meant to compete over the same players as Wow but are made for different people, just like Starcraft and Diablo. Some people will like both of course but the main focus groups differs.
As for price model, that is a load of bull. Wow were also originally intended to be B2P but Blizz board of directors (who didn't really believe in the game from start) saw the potential and decided to make it F2P, and several of the best people quit because of that and founded ANET instead.
Battle.net doesn't have any monthly fee either, because it were made by Strain too and he, O'Brien and the rest just don't believe in monthly fees. In fact Blizzard wanted to charge a monthly fee for it at first but he persuaded them to leave it free.
Anyways: There are similarities between Wow, GW and GW 2 and it would be weird otherwise but GW 2 is still one of the games that uses most new ideas and that is what makes it interesting.
It was more than just Diablo that they based GW off of. The skill system was based off of Magic the Gathering.
1) To the person claiming WoW molded GW into what it is, thank you for that laugh. Actually try GW first before you comment on it. It is NOTHING like WoW. That's not to claim WoW is a bad game, this has nothing to do with the quality of the game. This has to do with yet another fanboi swearing that their game started it all. Explain to me what part of GW is 'molded' from WoW? The fact that you can solo? Soloing didn't come until years later with the advent of Heroes. That it's casual? It's only casual if you want it to be, there are plenty of things about GW that are hardcore; go work on the Vanquisher and Elite Protector titles and while you're at it, get to work on Obsidian Armor, maybe even some Vabbian as well if millions of gold in ecto and shards isn't enough of a money sink for you.
2) GW2 is not going to be a WoW Killer. You CANNOT kill a game just by inventing something newer and shinier (*cough* ULTIMA *cough). Look, if Darkfail can still exist and maintain a player base (which while hard to believe, is true) then WoW is certainly not going anywhere. It's here to stay, get over it. That people keep trying to compare games to WoW and keep trying to rave about it's impending doom shows only a bitterness that is unnecessary, immature and extremely tiring.
3) Yes the events will eventually reset. I've seen some bitching about this, which I am amused by. If they didn't reset, not all players would get to participate. Tell me, would you enjoy playing a game that's been live for years now, knowing there's a TON of things you'll never ever ever get to do just because you were late to the party? Of course not. A-Net's mention of these events affecting the game is still worthwhile despite the eventual reset, because the quests, the loot, even the monsters you will fight and the storylines you will see are BASED ON THE EVENTS AND HOW THEY HAPPENED. Meaning there are things you will and will not get to do based on how other players in the world have affected it, for a time. Think of like rereading your favorite book, and finding something new. Why is that a bad thing?
4) It's called Guild Wars 2 because it follows the original storyline. The game is based on events a few hundred years into the future, and the characters you made and the things you did in part 1 will have an impact on your character in part 2. It's not huge and supposedly largely an aesthetic bonus, but the games are linked at least in that way (and before the arguments start, it was already stated that people that have never played the original guild wars will NOT be required to just to keep up with the people who have). Further, the events in the game began after the events of GWEN (Guild Wars: Eye of the North). SPOILER ALERT: The story is meant as a way for the player to gather the 6 heroes that originally fought together (Caith, Ritlock, etc), some of which are directly descended from characters in the original Guild Wars (Gwen's great grandson or something like that being one of them, the warrior dude who's name I can't remember atm). These are the new era of heroes necessary to fix the world much in the same way their forefathers/mothers did. Also at the end of GWEN from GW1, the cinematic shows one of the dragons awakening, a sign of events to come. In fact, the female dragon can be seen under one of the frozen lakes in Norn Territory in the first GW. This all sets a bunch of events into motion; The rise of Zaitan destroys Lion's Reach and makes travel to Cantha (Factions) and Elona (Nightfall) impossible, The undead dude ends up taking over Elona, Cantha's two factions are united under one man, refugees of many races gather and leave their differences behind to take on the dragons together, dwarves remain underground and are mostly hidden from society, etc etc etc etc...Lots of story, too much to cover here. Go read Ghosts of Ascalon and the lore on the websites if you're really curious.
Well, I think this wall of text is sufficient *nod*
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
It is going to be a great game for many many years!
Who said anything about molded from? I SAID molded to....TO..complement WoW. You know, like the B2P price model? That was a DIRECT effect of A.net not wanting to go head to head with WoW to compete with subscription numbers. And it was a very suave move I might add. It's debonair gameplay and instant level 20 out the box characters. Yet another hurdle lowered so players don't have to feel overwhelmed from playing two mmos.
You really have to let down your guard some and approach this from another angle. The business model and the casual gameplay elements are both drawn from A.net looking at WoW and deciding it's best to work with the beast that fight it head 2 head.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Decade? wasn't WoW released in 2004? lol and BTW, GW1 had a dye system too. But the new Dye system in GW2 makes each piece of gear have 3 different colours, in wich you have the freedom to dye with the colours you want (and the colours are so many that they counted a probability of reaching 400+ colours, if they want to reach that much, and considering that each material has different tones when using the same colour, because they logically are different materials).
Dynamic Events System: ok, so in WoW can you see: a city that's actually beeing attacked and destroyed ("instead of mobs "picking daysies")? the mobs turn the city into a fort if you don't save it? the fort sending mob-scouts to domain other cities? The city rebuilds itself and the npc's get revived if you drive the mobs away and stay there to protect it while its rebuild? the events happening without the players talk with an npc? the events happening in the same place as other events? the rewards beeing set by the amount of contirbution each player did in each event? only 1 event lead to 3-5 different events considering different results? the rewards aren't shared, everyone gets the total of the rewards from the event (considering their contribution)? you beeing able to play and recieve as much as other players in the same event without the need to be in the same party? no KS? no reason for leavers? no reason to stay in the "best spot to lvl up"?..... The difficulty goes up/down considering the number of active players doing the event?..........want me to continue?
About Sidekick System, it's easy: if you are a player of lvl 40 and you go play into a area of lvl 12 mobs, you have all your stats back to lvl 12-13. And the contrary happens as well, if you had been in that higher lvl area with another character (to avoid spoil).
You want more??? Traits system..... More? Personal Story...... Even more? Personality since the character creation and beeing able to change it considering your choices in traits, personal story, etc.... Not enough? Skill bar and Skill combos from different characters.
And BTW.... I play MMORPGs for more than a decade!
Well SnarlingWolf, you are wrong on all those points because you didn't do your research. I won't repeat what the others have already said. I'll be brief on one point. The sidekick system in GW2 will be similar to the sidekick system in CoH, it has nothing to do with AI companions/henchman which you are assuming it is. Btw, GW1 has an henchman/companion system fully supported but in GW2 it will be limited to certain areas.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
GW1 was B2P before WoW get even close to the poppularity it has now. It's not because of WoW, it's because of ALL OTHER MMORPGs out there, whether they are F2P or P2P. Most players argue about not playing one of those 2 payment models because they don't have money for monthly subs or they don't wanna "pay to win". It's not DIRECT effect my friend, you just think and hope it is. But I consider that WoW does have a good influence in their choice for GW2 payment model, althouth they probably were already thinking in doing the same thing they did with GW1, which was a great financial success. why not use it with GW2 too?