At first I liked it because of the chocobos. And the hopes that someday moogles will be there.
I liked it because I had a midget lancer who thought he was a moogle. I was excited because combat was supposed to be tactical (anyone saw the lancer page of ff14? with the enemy range and your range thing)
I hated it because my midget-lancer moogle-wannabee had to grind. A lot.
I hated it because the tacticalness of playing alone (and teams) just wasnt there. Yes you can immob enemies before they reach the casters but you cant stab them and stay out of range o.O and the immob didnt last long at all.
I hated it because after spending 45 minutes. 45 MINUTES RANTING ABOUT HOW GREAT A MOOGLE MY CHAR WAS!!!
Not a single person bothered to reply. Mind you there were a lot of people there who were running around.
I think it was just cuz I was expecting something else. I was expecting it to be more teamy but it wasnt. I was expecting to findsomething better than a ladybug killing 15 people at low levels o.o I mean come on....a lady bug?
I was expecting epic-ey final fantasy monsters. I was expecting more fun things to do (because it was advertised as a casual game) but there really isnt much casual-ness going for it.
I was expecting a beautiful epic world and not dejavu every turn (Which KILLED it for me)
Right now I find WoW more immersive with the land marks, the not so mazey maps, the more interesting and well built maps...
I was expecting to have fun exploring the world (I did NOT have fun exploring the world. I practically got lost because I refused to open the world map and i found myself in the same looking place over and over and over again. The copy pasta of the world killed immersion for me)
Oh..I liked figuring out the controls.. I Was able to virtua-hotkey everything so that i can play with one hand. now THAT was awesome. As in I can seriously do everything in ff14...with one friggin hand. How awesome is that??? I was fighting stuff just to see if I can get better finger dexterity with all the things I have to control (like menus, camera, target, battle mode or not battle mode, etc) That was the biggest friggin accomplishment for me in ff14. PLaying with 1 hand. o.o
Then I quit and went to play city of heroes going rogue~
I mean...whats there to do after you get to lvl 20 with only one hand?
I'm not taking sides either way, but this is the win post on this thread. This was pure funny!
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
He's been banned from other forums for the same behaviour.
Not true. I've only been permanently banned from one forum, ever, and it was largely a forum populated by folk whose conduct there got them banned from other forums. They never could give me a good reason why. I guess they didn't like my optimism.
Not sure what the heck is up with the star system on this forum. I had a quarter star awhile after my previous warning/ban here. It vanished?
So far as I can gather, the reason why I was given the warnings in the first place is any negativity about anyone else on here is simply not tolerated. I've been attempting to change my conduct thusly, but it certainly hasn't been rewarded. You guys should probably avoid talking down on me bearing in mind what I had to learn about the terms of service of this forum ths hard way.
honestly...who gives an f about the star system...
not saying I agree with your points or not. However, I hate it when people try to say you are more important because you have more stars or you have been on these forums longer.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
He's been banned from other forums for the same behaviour.
Not true. I've only been permanently banned from one forum, ever, and it was largely a forum populated by folk whose conduct there got them banned from other forums. They never could give me a good reason why. I guess they didn't like my optimism.
Not sure what the heck is up with the star system on this forum. I had a quarter star awhile after my previous warning/ban here. It vanished?
So far as I can gather, the reason why I was given the warnings in the first place is any negativity about anyone else on here is simply not tolerated. I've been attempting to change my conduct thusly, but it certainly hasn't been rewarded. You guys should probably avoid talking down on me bearing in mind what I had to learn about the terms of service of this forum ths hard way.
honestly...who gives an f about the star system...
not saying I agree with your points or not. However, I hate it when people try to say you are more important because you have more stars or you have been on these forums longer.
You know, I totally agree. On any forum I've ever seen a star system, it's been a very crude and inaccurate measure, at best.
"Immersion" is tricky, really. If you sit down two people with a good book, it's not uncommon that there will be a subjective disagreement about whether or not they felt "immersed," and the same goes for games.
I'd say my first MMORPG felt more immersive for me just because there was a lot more to learn, a lot more fresh things on my mind, I didn't have any real concept of MMORPG standards back then and every MMORPG I played after my first I was able to find these standards and find them to be an immersion breaker. Therefore, I think it takes a certain mindset amongst a veteran MMORPG player, a deliberate suspention of disbelief, to become immersed like you were in your first MMORPG.
For me, Final Fantasy XIV definately is a lot closer than I've been in a lot of MMORPGs simply because I'm not being pointed everywhere by people with giant exclaimation points floating over there head. The environments are a lot more believable, where in WoW it looks like a technicolor world designed by Fischer Price - FFXIV doesn't rely as heavily on stylization. It goes deeper than that, such as how nearly every single item in the game is tied to the player economy, how even the rudimentary act of grinding salt in a mortar carries a certain grand ramification of being a small part fo a much larger picture. It's a slow-paced game, but there's meaning in that pace, and if this meaning is missed then there just won't be an understand at where FFXIV excels.
I have to say, i really agree with the first part of this post, but as for FF exploration and gameplay, FF lost me from the begining, i am a long time vet of MMo's real old school to the new stuff, but FF leaves you completely without the simplest of direction from the first minute. I agree with a bit of extra work to find your goals, but Nothing From FF? Ok be a little vege in direction but at least offer some. I ran the opening map for 20 mins, and every time i tried to open a door or croos thru a hallway, poof reload map, poof reload map, i mean really? come on at least get us going then ease off on the direction. I dont need ! over eveything but a little help in a completely new place isnt too much to ask for. As for UI and loads and lag, yes very very poor. But hype hype hype, thats what the world lives for......
There are people who get a kick out of stabbing themselves in the balls with long sharp needles: to answer your question, some people have personalities that can merge painful experiences with pleasurable ones where you have to receive the former in order to get the latter.
Playing FFXIV is akin to lighting your face on fire. Most people won't enjoy it but there's gonna be a small subset of people who enjoy the smell of their own flesh on fire.
Wow, way to go to make a reasonable argument, ridiculing FFXIV fans and picturing them as masochists. It shows so well how enlightened and more sensible critics and 'haters' of the game are, good job
/sarcasm off
Originally posted by shakermaker0
I think it's wrong to call this game "old school". I honestly don't believe that Square set out to make a game for more hardcore audiences or those who enjoy a challenge. In short, this game is bad. The UI is terrible, everything is sluggish, slow, and non-responsive. The whole level system just isn't fun; in EverQuest, levelling and exploring was enjoyable for the word go, in FFXIV it is mind numbing boring. Will it get better? No. Even its main draw of changing class on-the-fly is stupidly annoying due to the whole turgid feel of the game.
Hmm, interesting argument. What is 'oldschool'?
If we take the categories of themepark, sandbox and oldschool, I think the following MMO traits are associated with 'oldschool' MMO's.
- no question marks above quest NPC's or map to show you towards merchant NPC's.
- no easy instant-travel options, at least not as common as later MMO's.
- more severe death penalties
- a sense of exploration and the feel of a vaster world, with very few guided experiences ('handholding')
- more flexibility and variety in classes, skills and crafting
- enforced grouping (at least in EQ)
- no auction house (instead there was things like a player bazaar in EQ)
- more challenging encounters
There were more features, but overall oldschool MMO's gave you the feeling that you had to do more and overcome more to find your way in this new and wondrous virtual world. EQ devs even talked about this intended design, a 'risk vs reward' philosophy that permeated throughout all kinds of EQ aspects.
Of course, a number of these traits were purely technology limitations or because these MMO's were the first trial runs in a new genre, but all these aspects together gave that distinctive experience that we now call 'oldschool' feel, by lack of a better word.
Now what has FFXIV to offer in those distinct features that could give people that oldschool feeling?
- you can build up your own class however you like from the several archetypal classes available
- a heavier focus on crafting and player economy.
- making crafting a valid main profession, not merely a sidejob with combat classes the only important ones
- no question or exclamation marks above NPC's, but talking to them to find out quest NPC's or find your merchants
- limitations in instant travel options
- no AH but retailers
Regardless whether people like those aspects in FFXIV, each of those features has an oldschool/sandbox touch.
Besides, I think the majority of people who don't like these things in FFXIV would have disliked them passionately in 'oldschool' MMO's as well.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There are people who get a kick out of stabbing themselves in the balls with long sharp needles: to answer your question, some people have personalities that can merge painful experiences with pleasurable ones where you have to receive the former in order to get the latter.
Playing FFXIV is akin to lighting your face on fire. Most people won't enjoy it but there's gonna be a small subset of people who enjoy the smell of their own flesh on fire.
Wow, way to go to make a reasonable argument, ridiculing FFXIV fans and picturing them as masochists. It shows so well how enlightened and more sensible critics and 'haters' of the game are, good job
Originally posted by shakermaker0
I think it's wrong to call this game "old school". I honestly don't believe that Square set out to make a game for more hardcore audiences or those who enjoy a challenge. In short, this game is bad. The UI is terrible, everything is sluggish, slow, and non-responsive. The whole level system just isn't fun; in EverQuest, levelling and exploring was enjoyable for the word go, in FFXIV it is mind numbing boring. Will it get better? No. Even its main draw of changing class on-the-fly is stupidly annoying due to the whole turgid feel of the game.
Hmm, interesting argument. What is 'oldschool'?
If we take the categories of themepark, sandbox and oldschool, I think the following MMO traits are associated with 'oldschool' MMO's.
- no question marks above quest NPC's or map to show you towards merchant NPC's.
- no easy instant-travel options, at least not as common as later MMO's.
- more severe death penalties
- a sense of exploration and the feel of a vaster world, with very few guided experiences ('handholding')
- more flexibility and variety in classes, skills and crafting
- enforced grouping (at least in EQ)
- no auction house (instead there was things like a player bazaar in EQ)
- more challenging encounters
There were more features, but overall oldschool MMO's gave you the feeling that you had to do more and overcome more to find your way in this new and wondrous virtual world. EQ devs even talked about this intended design, a 'risk vs reward' philosophy that permeated throughout all kinds of EQ aspects.
Of course, a number of these traits were purely technology limitations or because these MMO's were the first trial runs in a new genre, but all these aspects together gave that distinctive experience that we now call 'oldschool' feel, by lack of a better word.
Now what has FFXIV to offer in those distinct features that could give people that oldschool feeling?
- you can build up your own class however you like from the several archetypal classes available
- a heavier focus on crafting and player economy.
- making crafting a valid main profession, not merely a sidejob with combat classes the only important ones
- limitations in instant travel options
- no AH but retailers
Regardless whether people like those aspects in FFXIV, each of those features has an oldschool/sandbox touch.
Besides, I think the majority of people who don't like these things in FFXIV would have disliked them passionately in 'oldschool' MMO's as well.
just want to ask this: who do you advice? somene who wrote a review about the game?. because honestly i can see absolutely no point for an interested player looking into this thread reading your comment and then deicde: yeah to thell with this game. i don't say that to troll you your have good arguments for a mmo that should not stand there and say "hey i'm hardcore, but i try to be casual too" because ffxiv is time consumtpion in itself. and yes of course you can say what you want about the game. biut let's be honest: it won't change the mind of a person who already likes the game. now as for your post: trying to mark out the things that are absolute not casual friendly. now this works on the casual-basic. And yes i would think twice or even more if i would buy this game if i couldnt invest more time into it.
but you will attract people that aren't afraid to be a little masochist in a mmo and to suffer to get stuff done.
so one way the casual player gets shocked away (which is good because casual is not really in ffxiv even if they say so), and the people who play longer (i don't like to use the term hardcore players. explanation: even people that play long might be total idiots gameplay-wise), have the opportunity to get into this game. now both sides win.
I rather thought this guy summed up the reasons pretty nicely.
To put it really succinctly, the main reason I like this game is because it's old school. Its design hearkens back to the days when MMORPGs were designed in mind of Core Gamers playing them instead of Casuals. Here's a game that asks you to apply yourself, to research your recipes offline, to grind when needed, to seek out and find your own purpose in the game instead of having it handed to you, because you're not afraid of playing an MMORPG. The ponderous interface is merely skin deep.
Anybody who is spoiled on the WoW model, who never would have had a chance to enjoy anything but WoW or a WoW-alike, would likely take one look at what FFXIV asks of them and run enraged to the nearest forum to rage quit. That's just how it is, even negative professional reviews seem to mirror this "make it like WoW or I won't play it" mentality. I'm quite comfortable with leaving WoW players to WoW, you have plenty of clones to play, go to it and leave the FFXIV players be.
It's funny cause MMO's are the only game genre where if a game is designed like a piece of shit, it was intended to be "old school." Posts like this make me laugh and also remind me why I don't visit the site nearly as much as I used to.
just want to ask this: who do you advice? somene who wrote a review about the game?. because honestly i can see absolutely no point for an interested player looking into this thread reading your comment and then deicde: yeah to thell with this game.
I wasn't advising anyone, I responded upon the question raised how this MMORPG in some aspects could be experienced as oldschool. And ofc the first comment was sarcastic, someone who wants to compare polaying FFXIV with self-mutilation has purposely put out the sign 'we're closed' on his brain window.
Regarding the FFXIV features that feel 'old school' some will love it, some will hate it. If you liked or accepted such features in older MMO's, chances are higher that you have no trouble with them in FFXIV.
Originally posted by lethys
It's funny cause MMO's are the only game genre where if a game is designed like a piece of shit, it was intended to be "old school." Posts like this make me laugh and also remind me why I don't visit the site nearly as much as I used to.
Hmm. If you thought them funny and enjoyed them enough that they make you laugh, then it's strange that you don't visit this site more often. Apparently you don't like fun or laughing that much then
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
just want to ask this: who do you advice? somene who wrote a review about the game?. because honestly i can see absolutely no point for an interested player looking into this thread reading your comment and then deicde: yeah to thell with this game.
I wasn't advising anyone, I responded upon the question raised how this MMORPG in some aspects could be experienced as oldschool. And ofc the first comment was sarcastic, someone who wants to compare polaying FFXIV with self-mutilation has purposely put out the sign 'we're closed' on his brain window.
Regarding the FFXIV features that feel 'old school' some will love it, some will hate it. If you liked or accepted such features in older MMO's, chances are higher that you have no trouble with them in FFXIV.
Okay, I appoliogize for making another thread. This will be my last but I have a lot of questions I guess. I have learned that compulsively buying MMO's has been a poor choice.
I have been reading on and on about why people loathe the game. However, there must, obviously, be people who love the game. What are these reasons? I know a lot of people are die hard FF fans, but it takes much more than that to sell a game.
Why do people enjoy playing FFXIV?
1. If you like FFXI but are bored with it because you have been playing it for many years and, all things considered, want a slightly different flavour with different toppings than you normally get, then and only then will you like this game.
2. If you were not able to get into FFXI because you felt you would be too far behind ,then this game is for you. This game really is the spiritual successor to FFXI and, in several ways, improves upon that game while, again, in several ways, makes worse that game's mistakes.
3. If you are inclined to think that 'effort' runs synonymously with a player having to put in enough hours with the game for it to qualify as a second job, then this game will be for you.
4. If you think that a game which is honestly lacking content and does an incredibly poor job explaining itself is in some way 'sandboxy' or 'old school' or 'hardcore', then this game is for you.
Final Fantasy XIV could have been something really great but it falls flat in too many obvious ways. Sadly, quite a few people refuse to pay attention to this but, as for myself, I'm just glad that I followed this game as closely as I did and cancelled my pre-order -I ended up stuck with AION.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
The whole level system just isn't fun; in EverQuest, levelling and exploring was enjoyable for the word go, Good Gawd...hell levels, remember those? Remember how much fun it was to go sit in Dreadlands while they pulled cockatrices and giants to you, or sitting in Velk's while they pulled spiders to you, or...just sitting somewhere while one person pulled back a single mob to your group to kill so you could all feed on the incredibly slow trickle of XP? Yeah, that's terribly unlike what people do in FF14...
in FFXIV it is mind numbing boring. Explain to me please how it differs from EQ's? Everquest, from my point of view, is still the single most stunning gaming experience I've ever had, in spite of its archaic gameplay and graphics.
Will it get better? No. My thanks for accurately predicting the future of a game that has been live for all of 2 weeks.
Even its main draw of changing class on-the-fly is stupidly annoying due to the whole turgid feel of the game. I'm not trolling or being unreasonable, this game is just poor. Don't try and cover it up with saying "it's so old school" because it just isn't. Older games didn't set out to be difficult and an insane challenge (like Everquest, where you could de-level, lose your corpse and so forth, they just turned out that way, amirite?)
I rather thought this guy summed up the reasons pretty nicely.
To put it really succinctly, the main reason I like this game is because it's old school. Its design hearkens back to the days when MMORPGs were designed in mind of Core Gamers playing them instead of Casuals. Here's a game that asks you to apply yourself, to research your recipes offline, to grind when needed, to seek out and find your own purpose in the game instead of having it handed to you, because you're not afraid of playing an MMORPG. The ponderous interface is merely skin deep.
Anybody who is spoiled on the WoW model, who never would have had a chance to enjoy anything but WoW or a WoW-alike, would likely take one look at what FFXIV asks of them and run enraged to the nearest forum to rage quit. That's just how it is, even negative professional reviews seem to mirror this "make it like WoW or I won't play it" mentality. I'm quite comfortable with leaving WoW players to WoW, you have plenty of clones to play, go to it and leave the FFXIV players be.
I find it amusing that a game that lacks content and a workable interface makes it "old school" and "core" for you.
It is a ridiculous concept that anyone can believe a game that fails to teach you how to play it, offers incentives to exploring the world, and has a plethora of content to enjoy would be considered "not hardcore enough."
Here, take this calculus test. I want you to figure it out on your own. In fact, I want you to also create your own sheets of paper to write on and I want you to craft your own pencil to write with. What's that? You're not "old school" or "core" enough to do that?
I find it amusing that a game that lacks content and a workable interface makes it "old school" and "core" for you.
It is a ridiculous concept that anyone can believe a game that fails to teach you how to play it, offers incentives to exploring the world, and has a plethora of content to enjoy would be considered "not hardcore enough."
This leads of course to the interesting question what you would consider 'old school' features.
I gave a list of what I consider fairly reasonable assumptions of 'old school' traits plus a comparison with some FFXIV gameplay features.
Since you disagree with FFXIV being 'old school' in any way, what is 'old school' to you then?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Okay, I appoliogize for making another thread. This will be my last but I have a lot of questions I guess. I have learned that compulsively buying MMO's has been a poor choice.
I have been reading on and on about why people loathe the game. However, there must, obviously, be people who love the game. What are these reasons? I know a lot of people are die hard FF fans, but it takes much more than that to sell a game.
Why do people enjoy playing FFXIV?
Personal tastes, often combined with an individuals intent to be themselves.
There's a game I occasionally play that is significantly graphically inferior to most others. It has more than a few issues, has a cash shop that I find unacceptably expensive, and isn't much into being new player friendly. Although not exactly busy, it is never dead. There's a bunch who play it, enjoy it... perhaps even live in it.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Okay, I appoliogize for making another thread. This will be my last but I have a lot of questions I guess. I have learned that compulsively buying MMO's has been a poor choice.
I have been reading on and on about why people loathe the game. However, there must, obviously, be people who love the game. What are these reasons? I know a lot of people are die hard FF fans, but it takes much more than that to sell a game.
Why do people enjoy playing FFXIV?
Personal tastes, often combined with an individuals intent to be themselves.
There's a game I occasionally play that is significantly graphically inferior to most others. It has more than a few issues, has a cash shop that I find unacceptably expensive, and isn't much into being new player friendly. Although not exactly busy, it is never dead. There's a bunch who play it, enjoy it... perhaps even live in it.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
no one really cares if a few people play the game. No factual indicator will ever allow SE to proclaim ffxiv a success, and that's all that is important to me, because crap like this should not be encouraged.
I have a awesome Linkshell of 20 + active members atm an this game feels like a real guild. Everyone works together passing materials to each other having huge group fights an making each other equipment building a fresh economy for ourselves. Guild experience here is amazing.
Game is challenging unlock most mmoprgs are often played very fast an exploited to the end with a easy guide or quest tracker which games been doing for while now an its not something I want to play.
Game World is very huge! I still only communicating within first 1-3 zones. lots of traffic in the game flowing back an fourth. Theres tons of content for me to handle atm. I get the feeling no one is being left behind.
Playing multiple job classless system which it turns out to be at times has not really been used by hardly no mmoprgs.
The equipment an visual looks are stunning. If anything you don't get eye sore an you get the real "eye candy gaming" effect here which attracts. The worlds are filled with places to explore an amazing music ambience.
NPC's are mysterious and I'm reading what they have to offer because they could offer a quest any sort of information.
The enemies are fun to fight an challenging. You never really know what they will do. "Cactuar" is exceptional icon lol but there is tons of spells can effects. Mobs on ff have strengths an weakness even including magic resistances. If i were fighting a fire elemental then its gonna be weak to fire.
The crafting system is very deep system which i like. I don;t like crafting systems where I can pretty much walk away from the game an everything is done. thats not playing lol. Harvesting in this game is fun to do an has an art to harvesting even with the combination of harvesting clothes that give you more bonuses to it.
Combat gameplay is FF style. jrpg but faster than most ff's. i love it. an its very challenging.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
I think the situation is slightly different, at least regarding this game, it's the haters and critics that can't let go.
Instead of moving on and letting go, they feel the need to keep on picking at the game, in a manner that makes one remind of Salem witch hunt and lynch mob mentality.
Most of the responses of the fans in general show that they're aware of the annoyances and flaws of the game, and most of them have acknowledges them. It's just that those flaws doesn't let them hinder enjoying the game for the good it has to offer.
As a contrast, you see at the side of the 'haters' and critics far more - next to the more reasonable among them ofc - that they can't accept that the game also can have good aspects and a far larger number among them tend to resort to attack the fans who dare to say that they enjoy the game, and accuse them of being 'fanbois' or delusional or masochists.
It's the 'haters' and critics that can't let go and that feel the constant need to attack the game and those who support it - at least, it's a behaviour that you see more in the camp of the opponents than the proponents of FFXIV.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Okay, I appoliogize for making another thread. This will be my last but I have a lot of questions I guess. I have learned that compulsively buying MMO's has been a poor choice.
I have been reading on and on about why people loathe the game. However, there must, obviously, be people who love the game. What are these reasons? I know a lot of people are die hard FF fans, but it takes much more than that to sell a game.
Why do people enjoy playing FFXIV?
Personal tastes, often combined with an individuals intent to be themselves.
There's a game I occasionally play that is significantly graphically inferior to most others. It has more than a few issues, has a cash shop that I find unacceptably expensive, and isn't much into being new player friendly. Although not exactly busy, it is never dead. There's a bunch who play it, enjoy it... perhaps even live in it.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
no one really cares if a few people play the game. No factual indicator will ever allow SE to proclaim ffxiv a success, and that's all that is important to me, because crap like this should not be encouraged.
If the game keeps selling copies and people keep subscribing then they can easily call the game a success no matter how you feel about it
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
Okay, I appoliogize for making another thread. This will be my last but I have a lot of questions I guess. I have learned that compulsively buying MMO's has been a poor choice.
I have been reading on and on about why people loathe the game. However, there must, obviously, be people who love the game. What are these reasons? I know a lot of people are die hard FF fans, but it takes much more than that to sell a game.
Why do people enjoy playing FFXIV?
Personal tastes, often combined with an individuals intent to be themselves.
There's a game I occasionally play that is significantly graphically inferior to most others. It has more than a few issues, has a cash shop that I find unacceptably expensive, and isn't much into being new player friendly. Although not exactly busy, it is never dead. There's a bunch who play it, enjoy it... perhaps even live in it.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
no one really cares if a few people play the game. No factual indicator will ever allow SE to proclaim ffxiv a success, and that's all that is important to me, because crap like this should not be encouraged.
If the game keeps selling copies and people keep subscribing then they can easily call the game a success no matter how you feel about it
All I know is that I purchased the game yesterday and played until 5:30 am this morning. I found it very fun, didn't have the interface lag that people were complaining about (it was very slight and wasn't an issue) and really enjoyed figuring out how the game works.
There are some things that seem silly but I really wonder if in some cases it might very well be expectations of players from older games and newer games.
The interface could be better as far as the menus but I think some of the other complaints are non issues to some. Then again, let's see where I am when my character is higher level. So far I really want to get back in game but need more sleep.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
At first I liked it because of the chocobos. And the hopes that someday moogles will be there.
I liked it because I had a midget lancer who thought he was a moogle. I was excited because combat was supposed to be tactical (anyone saw the lancer page of ff14? with the enemy range and your range thing)
I hated it because my midget-lancer moogle-wannabee had to grind. A lot.
I hated it because the tacticalness of playing alone (and teams) just wasnt there. Yes you can immob enemies before they reach the casters but you cant stab them and stay out of range o.O and the immob didnt last long at all.
I hated it because after spending 45 minutes. 45 MINUTES RANTING ABOUT HOW GREAT A MOOGLE MY CHAR WAS!!!
Not a single person bothered to reply. Mind you there were a lot of people there who were running around.
I think it was just cuz I was expecting something else. I was expecting it to be more teamy but it wasnt. I was expecting to findsomething better than a ladybug killing 15 people at low levels o.o I mean come on....a lady bug?
I was expecting epic-ey final fantasy monsters. I was expecting more fun things to do (because it was advertised as a casual game) but there really isnt much casual-ness going for it.
I was expecting a beautiful epic world and not dejavu every turn (Which KILLED it for me)
Right now I find WoW more immersive with the land marks, the not so mazey maps, the more interesting and well built maps...
I was expecting to have fun exploring the world (I did NOT have fun exploring the world. I practically got lost because I refused to open the world map and i found myself in the same looking place over and over and over again. The copy pasta of the world killed immersion for me)
Oh..I liked figuring out the controls.. I Was able to virtua-hotkey everything so that i can play with one hand. now THAT was awesome. As in I can seriously do everything in ff14...with one friggin hand. How awesome is that??? I was fighting stuff just to see if I can get better finger dexterity with all the things I have to control (like menus, camera, target, battle mode or not battle mode, etc) That was the biggest friggin accomplishment for me in ff14. PLaying with 1 hand. o.o
Then I quit and went to play city of heroes going rogue~
I mean...whats there to do after you get to lvl 20 with only one hand?
Yes, WoW is more immersive lol. I thought I would never say such thing as well.
Okay, I appoliogize for making another thread. This will be my last but I have a lot of questions I guess. I have learned that compulsively buying MMO's has been a poor choice.
I have been reading on and on about why people loathe the game. However, there must, obviously, be people who love the game. What are these reasons? I know a lot of people are die hard FF fans, but it takes much more than that to sell a game.
Why do people enjoy playing FFXIV?
Personal tastes, often combined with an individuals intent to be themselves.
There's a game I occasionally play that is significantly graphically inferior to most others. It has more than a few issues, has a cash shop that I find unacceptably expensive, and isn't much into being new player friendly. Although not exactly busy, it is never dead. There's a bunch who play it, enjoy it... perhaps even live in it.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
no one really cares if a few people play the game. No factual indicator will ever allow SE to proclaim ffxiv a success, and that's all that is important to me, because crap like this should not be encouraged.
If the game keeps selling copies and people keep subscribing then they can easily call the game a success no matter how you feel about it
No factual indicators. I worded it very carefully because companies can say what they want, but in no way would any proclamation be factual.
It's somewhat humorous, really. People on these forums generally complain constantly that they want something that's not just a WoW clone, a game that tries new things. And yet, when a game comes along and does just that, and tries to be different, and doesn't take the mainstream approach, it gets ripped to shreds because of those very reasons and its flaws.
It's somewhat humorous, really. People on these forums generally complain constantly that they want something that's not just a WoW clone, a game that tries new things. And yet, when a game comes along and does just that, and tries to be different, and doesn't take the mainstream approach, it gets ripped to shreds because of those very reasons and its flaws.
There is a difference between trying something different and making things stupidly difficult to be different. Ill be honest, I dont know if most of the bad parts of this game were intentional or just laziness. GW2 will be different from mainstream MMO's and I bet they do a HELL of a better job then FFXIV
It's somewhat humorous, really. People on these forums generally complain constantly that they want something that's not just a WoW clone, a game that tries new things. And yet, when a game comes along and does just that, and tries to be different, and doesn't take the mainstream approach, it gets ripped to shreds because of those very reasons and its flaws.
There is a difference between trying something different and making things stupidly difficult to be different. Ill be honest, I dont know if most of the bad parts of this game were intentional or just laziness. GW2 will be different from mainstream MMO's and I bet they do a HELL of a better job then FFXIV
I'm not quite sure there is anything lazy about the game at all. I am sure that there are some very deliberate design decisions.
whether they resonate with players or not is up to that player.
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Comments
I'm not taking sides either way, but this is the win post on this thread. This was pure funny!
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
honestly...who gives an f about the star system...
not saying I agree with your points or not. However, I hate it when people try to say you are more important because you have more stars or you have been on these forums longer.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
You know, I totally agree. On any forum I've ever seen a star system, it's been a very crude and inaccurate measure, at best.
I have to say, i really agree with the first part of this post, but as for FF exploration and gameplay, FF lost me from the begining, i am a long time vet of MMo's real old school to the new stuff, but FF leaves you completely without the simplest of direction from the first minute. I agree with a bit of extra work to find your goals, but Nothing From FF? Ok be a little vege in direction but at least offer some. I ran the opening map for 20 mins, and every time i tried to open a door or croos thru a hallway, poof reload map, poof reload map, i mean really? come on at least get us going then ease off on the direction. I dont need ! over eveything but a little help in a completely new place isnt too much to ask for. As for UI and loads and lag, yes very very poor. But hype hype hype, thats what the world lives for......
Wow, way to go to make a reasonable argument, ridiculing FFXIV fans and picturing them as masochists. It shows so well how enlightened and more sensible critics and 'haters' of the game are, good job
/sarcasm off
Hmm, interesting argument. What is 'oldschool'?
If we take the categories of themepark, sandbox and oldschool, I think the following MMO traits are associated with 'oldschool' MMO's.
- no question marks above quest NPC's or map to show you towards merchant NPC's.
- no easy instant-travel options, at least not as common as later MMO's.
- more severe death penalties
- a sense of exploration and the feel of a vaster world, with very few guided experiences ('handholding')
- more flexibility and variety in classes, skills and crafting
- enforced grouping (at least in EQ)
- no auction house (instead there was things like a player bazaar in EQ)
- more challenging encounters
There were more features, but overall oldschool MMO's gave you the feeling that you had to do more and overcome more to find your way in this new and wondrous virtual world. EQ devs even talked about this intended design, a 'risk vs reward' philosophy that permeated throughout all kinds of EQ aspects.
Of course, a number of these traits were purely technology limitations or because these MMO's were the first trial runs in a new genre, but all these aspects together gave that distinctive experience that we now call 'oldschool' feel, by lack of a better word.
Now what has FFXIV to offer in those distinct features that could give people that oldschool feeling?
- you can build up your own class however you like from the several archetypal classes available
- a heavier focus on crafting and player economy.
- making crafting a valid main profession, not merely a sidejob with combat classes the only important ones
- no question or exclamation marks above NPC's, but talking to them to find out quest NPC's or find your merchants
- limitations in instant travel options
- no AH but retailers
Regardless whether people like those aspects in FFXIV, each of those features has an oldschool/sandbox touch.
Besides, I think the majority of people who don't like these things in FFXIV would have disliked them passionately in 'oldschool' MMO's as well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
just want to ask this: who do you advice? somene who wrote a review about the game?. because honestly i can see absolutely no point for an interested player looking into this thread reading your comment and then deicde: yeah to thell with this game. i don't say that to troll you your have good arguments for a mmo that should not stand there and say "hey i'm hardcore, but i try to be casual too" because ffxiv is time consumtpion in itself. and yes of course you can say what you want about the game. biut let's be honest: it won't change the mind of a person who already likes the game. now as for your post: trying to mark out the things that are absolute not casual friendly. now this works on the casual-basic. And yes i would think twice or even more if i would buy this game if i couldnt invest more time into it.
but you will attract people that aren't afraid to be a little masochist in a mmo and to suffer to get stuff done.
so one way the casual player gets shocked away (which is good because casual is not really in ffxiv even if they say so), and the people who play longer (i don't like to use the term hardcore players. explanation: even people that play long might be total idiots gameplay-wise), have the opportunity to get into this game. now both sides win.
It's funny cause MMO's are the only game genre where if a game is designed like a piece of shit, it was intended to be "old school." Posts like this make me laugh and also remind me why I don't visit the site nearly as much as I used to.
I wasn't advising anyone, I responded upon the question raised how this MMORPG in some aspects could be experienced as oldschool. And ofc the first comment was sarcastic, someone who wants to compare polaying FFXIV with self-mutilation has purposely put out the sign 'we're closed' on his brain window.
Regarding the FFXIV features that feel 'old school' some will love it, some will hate it. If you liked or accepted such features in older MMO's, chances are higher that you have no trouble with them in FFXIV.
Hmm. If you thought them funny and enjoyed them enough that they make you laugh, then it's strange that you don't visit this site more often. Apparently you don't like fun or laughing that much then
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
touché.
g'd night
1. If you like FFXI but are bored with it because you have been playing it for many years and, all things considered, want a slightly different flavour with different toppings than you normally get, then and only then will you like this game.
2. If you were not able to get into FFXI because you felt you would be too far behind ,then this game is for you. This game really is the spiritual successor to FFXI and, in several ways, improves upon that game while, again, in several ways, makes worse that game's mistakes.
3. If you are inclined to think that 'effort' runs synonymously with a player having to put in enough hours with the game for it to qualify as a second job, then this game will be for you.
4. If you think that a game which is honestly lacking content and does an incredibly poor job explaining itself is in some way 'sandboxy' or 'old school' or 'hardcore', then this game is for you.
Final Fantasy XIV could have been something really great but it falls flat in too many obvious ways. Sadly, quite a few people refuse to pay attention to this but, as for myself, I'm just glad that I followed this game as closely as I did and cancelled my pre-order -I ended up stuck with AION.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
I find it amusing that a game that lacks content and a workable interface makes it "old school" and "core" for you.
It is a ridiculous concept that anyone can believe a game that fails to teach you how to play it, offers incentives to exploring the world, and has a plethora of content to enjoy would be considered "not hardcore enough."
Here, take this calculus test. I want you to figure it out on your own. In fact, I want you to also create your own sheets of paper to write on and I want you to craft your own pencil to write with. What's that? You're not "old school" or "core" enough to do that?
This leads of course to the interesting question what you would consider 'old school' features.
I gave a list of what I consider fairly reasonable assumptions of 'old school' traits plus a comparison with some FFXIV gameplay features.
Since you disagree with FFXIV being 'old school' in any way, what is 'old school' to you then?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Personal tastes, often combined with an individuals intent to be themselves.
There's a game I occasionally play that is significantly graphically inferior to most others. It has more than a few issues, has a cash shop that I find unacceptably expensive, and isn't much into being new player friendly. Although not exactly busy, it is never dead. There's a bunch who play it, enjoy it... perhaps even live in it.
Maybe those people are what is commonly referred to as fanboy. Could be. I can tell you that they love THEIR game, and come hell or high water... they're not going to budge.
I think the same thing happens here. The more the haters yell and scream, the more the other side digs in and has absolutely no intent to change.
no one really cares if a few people play the game. No factual indicator will ever allow SE to proclaim ffxiv a success, and that's all that is important to me, because crap like this should not be encouraged.
I'll tell you why I like the game:
I have a awesome Linkshell of 20 + active members atm an this game feels like a real guild. Everyone works together passing materials to each other having huge group fights an making each other equipment building a fresh economy for ourselves. Guild experience here is amazing.
Game is challenging unlock most mmoprgs are often played very fast an exploited to the end with a easy guide or quest tracker which games been doing for while now an its not something I want to play.
Game World is very huge! I still only communicating within first 1-3 zones. lots of traffic in the game flowing back an fourth. Theres tons of content for me to handle atm. I get the feeling no one is being left behind.
Playing multiple job classless system which it turns out to be at times has not really been used by hardly no mmoprgs.
The equipment an visual looks are stunning. If anything you don't get eye sore an you get the real "eye candy gaming" effect here which attracts. The worlds are filled with places to explore an amazing music ambience.
NPC's are mysterious and I'm reading what they have to offer because they could offer a quest any sort of information.
The enemies are fun to fight an challenging. You never really know what they will do. "Cactuar" is exceptional icon lol but there is tons of spells can effects. Mobs on ff have strengths an weakness even including magic resistances. If i were fighting a fire elemental then its gonna be weak to fire.
The crafting system is very deep system which i like. I don;t like crafting systems where I can pretty much walk away from the game an everything is done. thats not playing lol. Harvesting in this game is fun to do an has an art to harvesting even with the combination of harvesting clothes that give you more bonuses to it.
Combat gameplay is FF style. jrpg but faster than most ff's. i love it. an its very challenging.
I think the situation is slightly different, at least regarding this game, it's the haters and critics that can't let go.
Instead of moving on and letting go, they feel the need to keep on picking at the game, in a manner that makes one remind of Salem witch hunt and lynch mob mentality.
Most of the responses of the fans in general show that they're aware of the annoyances and flaws of the game, and most of them have acknowledges them. It's just that those flaws doesn't let them hinder enjoying the game for the good it has to offer.
As a contrast, you see at the side of the 'haters' and critics far more - next to the more reasonable among them ofc - that they can't accept that the game also can have good aspects and a far larger number among them tend to resort to attack the fans who dare to say that they enjoy the game, and accuse them of being 'fanbois' or delusional or masochists.
It's the 'haters' and critics that can't let go and that feel the constant need to attack the game and those who support it - at least, it's a behaviour that you see more in the camp of the opponents than the proponents of FFXIV.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If the game keeps selling copies and people keep subscribing then they can easily call the game a success no matter how you feel about it
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
All I know is that I purchased the game yesterday and played until 5:30 am this morning. I found it very fun, didn't have the interface lag that people were complaining about (it was very slight and wasn't an issue) and really enjoyed figuring out how the game works.
There are some things that seem silly but I really wonder if in some cases it might very well be expectations of players from older games and newer games.
The interface could be better as far as the menus but I think some of the other complaints are non issues to some. Then again, let's see where I am when my character is higher level. So far I really want to get back in game but need more sleep.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes, WoW is more immersive lol. I thought I would never say such thing as well.
I think a few people feel stuck. I personally don't have the luxury of lots of extra time so the second I noticed the game was abyssmal I quit.
No factual indicators. I worded it very carefully because companies can say what they want, but in no way would any proclamation be factual.
It's somewhat humorous, really. People on these forums generally complain constantly that they want something that's not just a WoW clone, a game that tries new things. And yet, when a game comes along and does just that, and tries to be different, and doesn't take the mainstream approach, it gets ripped to shreds because of those very reasons and its flaws.
There is a difference between trying something different and making things stupidly difficult to be different. Ill be honest, I dont know if most of the bad parts of this game were intentional or just laziness. GW2 will be different from mainstream MMO's and I bet they do a HELL of a better job then FFXIV
I'm not quite sure there is anything lazy about the game at all. I am sure that there are some very deliberate design decisions.
whether they resonate with players or not is up to that player.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo